posted
Just to lighten things up around here; here are some "salacious" words from the Mdu Ntr regarding things SEXUAL
Sexual pleasure Nedjem Nedjem - to make love (from Nedjem: sweet, pleasure, happiness) Nedjemit - sexual delights, love pleasures Nedjem Ndjemiu - love joys Nedjem Ndjmemit - whores Nouxb - Coptic: to copulate, engender
Abortion Houhe - the aborted fetus (results of unplanned parenthood)
Iri Nafre.t - to have intercourse with a virgin Iri Nedjemem.t em henen - to have intercourse with yourself; masturbate
posted
I agree, these are quite interesting terms. I would indeed like to know what papyri or stone artifacts, these words were obtained from, i.e., if not derived from Coptic, which is basically the original Egyptian, just so happens to be written in Greek and demotic characters.
-------------------- Truth - a liar penetrating device! Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Wally is getting the words from Budge's Hieroglyphic Dictionary volume 1 or 2. Not many papyri I have seen contain references to sexual activity. Don't believe we can judge ancient sexuality in ancient Km.t to standards in contemporary Western standards. Most of which is molded with Judeo-Christian and Victorian backgrounds.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Description: One of the most unusual unfinished works found in Egypt, at a sculptor's workshop at Tell El-Amarna. Made of limestone, it measures 39.5 cm tall. Akhenaten is identifiable because he is wearing the Blue Crown with a uraeus. He is holding a young female figure on his knees. The scene portrayed strays from the classic repertory of Egyptian art. The two figures are represented in the act of kissing, a degree of intimacy that has few parallels in the art of the Nile Valley. -- Tour EgyptPosts: 1549 | From: California, USA | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Wally is getting the words from Budge's Hieroglyphic Dictionary volume 1 or 2. Not many papyri I have seen contain references to sexual activity. Don't believe we can judge ancient sexuality in ancient Km.t to standards in contemporary Western standards. Most of which is molded with Judeo-Christian and Victorian backgrounds.
This is true. Most of the words are from Budge's Hieroglyphic Dictionary volumes 1 and 2; the Coptic words, well are from Coptic. And yes, ancient sexuality in ancient Km.t should not be viewed behind the distorted lens of Western-Judeo-Christian-Victorian guilt trips (IE, the perversions of Western thought.) regarding things natural and universal...
Description: One of the most unusual unfinished works found in Egypt, at a sculptor's workshop at Tell El-Amarna. Made of limestone, it measures 39.5 cm tall. Akhenaten is identifiable because he is wearing the Blue Crown with a uraeus. He is holding a young female figure on his knees. The scene portrayed strays from the classic repertory of Egyptian art. The two figures are represented in the act of kissing, a degree of intimacy that has few parallels in the art of the Nile Valley. -- Tour Egypt
Depends on what the author actually means by "degree of intimacy" here; whether close relationship in the "platonic" sense, or in the "erotic" sense? I am inclined to go with the former. If however, whoever wrote that bit is implying the latter, then obviously this person has a dirty little mind , trying to impose his/her modern notions of erotic behavior on the ancients...such an implication borders on child molestation. So again, I'm inclined to take the author's word to mean, show of a very close but "non-erotic" relationship between the parent and the offspring...unless of course, the little female figure, isn't an offspring, but perhaps a lover suffering from dwarfism(?). Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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This is true. Most of the words are from Budge's Hieroglyphic Dictionary volumes 1 and 2; the Coptic words, well are from Coptic.
Does Budge tell us anywhere, what are his sources of the words he mentions, aside from the "coptic terms"?
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: And yes, ancient sexuality in ancient Km.t should not be viewed behind the distorted lens of Western-Judeo-Christian-Victorian guilt trips (IE, the perversions of Western thought.) regarding things natural and universal...
Of course, and as stated before in a similar thread, many Europeans (especially Victorian English) did not understand these concepts of fertility. Which is why they thought such societies they encountered in the Americas, Asia, and especially in Africa to be "wild", "sex-crazed", or "perverted". Even though in a sexually supressed society as theirs, it was usually them who engaged in perverted acts in closed doors.
Unfortunately, many of the views that Westerners had on Africans (blacks) and their 'sexuality' still linger today. Many people don't realize it, but even the term "fetish" itself is derived from European descriptions of fertility or just religious and ritual objects used by Africans in general.
Well it seems Egyptian society is just teeming with 'fetishes' sexual or other wise!
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Here is something I found interesting from that site:
Itinerant Performers and 'Prostitutes'
The Egyptian sacred 'prostitute' (who was probably a highly regarded as a member of Egyptian society because of her association with different gods or goddesses (such as Bes and Hathor), rather than the street walker that the modern mind imagines) advertised herself through her clothing and make up. Some of these women wore blue faience beaded fish-net dresses. They painted their lips red, and tattooed themselves on the breasts or thighs and even went around totally nude. There is no evidence that these women were paid for these fertility-related acts, so some believe that word 'prostitute' is probably an incorrect term for these women.
Another idea, pointed out to me by Daniel Kolos, an Egyptologist academically trained at the University of Toronto, is that this premarital sexual activity might be a prerequisite for marriage. One of the theories that disassociates these women from being prostitutes, is that their sexual activity could be part of a "coming-of-age ritual", just as circumcision was one for males. With Egypt's heavy emphasis on fertility as the defining nature of a man or a woman, this idea is a highly likely probability.
Other theories could be that the young virgin girls joined itinerant performing groups - dancers, singers and the like - and during their time with these groups they experienced their first sexual encounters. If a girl became pregnant, she would probably leave the troupe to head home to her family with proof of her fertility. (Motherhood was venerated, giving a woman a much higher status in society, so pregnancy was something to be proud of in ancient Egypt.)
These travelling groups of women were strongly linked with midwifery and childbirth-related deities. The goddesses Isis, Nephthys, Meskhenet and Heqet disguised themselves as itinerant performers, travelling with the god Khnum as their porter. Carrying the sistrum and menat instruments - instruments with sexual overtones - they showed it to Rawoser, the expectant father. Knowing that his wife, Raddjedet, was having a very difficult labour, he told these women - the disguised goddesses - about his wife's troubles, and at their offer of help, he let them in to see her.
These women do not seem to be pay-for-sex prostitutes, instead they seem to be a link with the divine, a helper of expectant mothers and singers, dancers and musicians. This is not to say that there were no pay-for-sex prostitutes in ancient Egypt, it it just that there is little evidence of this found. Considering Egypt's very different image of sexuality, the modern concept of both sexuality and prostitution do not fit this ancient society. Women operated under a totally different cultural imperative than women today, thus ancient Egyptian sexuality must be looked at without modern prejudices. It seems that these female performers, these 'prostitutes', were treated with courtesy and respect, and there seemed to be a well established link between these travelling performers and fertility, childbirth, religion and magic.Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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This is true. Most of the words are from Budge's Hieroglyphic Dictionary volumes 1 and 2; the Coptic words, well are from Coptic.
Does Budge tell us anywhere, what are his sources of the words he mentions, aside from the "coptic terms"?
Budge's well paid stipend required nothing more of him than to collect and categorize from the Mdu Ntr from various original sources...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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This is true. Most of the words are from Budge's Hieroglyphic Dictionary volumes 1 and 2; the Coptic words, well are from Coptic.
Does Budge tell us anywhere, what are his sources of the words he mentions, aside from the "coptic terms"?
Budge's well paid stipend required nothing more of him than to collect and categorize from the Mdu Ntr from various original sources...
Apparently we have different stringents of quality for accumulating knowledge. For me, it is well worth knowing from where Budge collects his information. Ps- The question still stands for those, who believe they have an 'answer', not a 'dismissal'.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Umm, I wouldn't pin western prudery tails on Judeo- donkeys. While not approving of prostitution of Hebrew women the Judaean rabbis' attitude was one of "anything goes" between man and woman in private confines (and preferably in the night time).
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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This is true. Most of the words are from Budge's Hieroglyphic Dictionary volumes 1 and 2; the Coptic words, well are from Coptic.
Does Budge tell us anywhere, what are his sources of the words he mentions, aside from the "coptic terms"?
Budge's well paid stipend required nothing more of him than to collect and categorize from the Mdu Ntr from various original sources...
Apparently we have different stringents of quality for accumulating knowledge. For me, it is well worth knowing from where Budge collects his information. Ps- The question still stands for those, who believe they have an 'answer', not a 'dismissal'.
As with most dictionaries; Budge's methodology is summarized (extensively) in the introduction to his two volumn dictionary, if you read it, you would find all the answers to your questions. It is better to get your information from a primary source (Budge) than from a secondary one...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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