posted
Many Kememuan* artwork evidences "narrow features" like those of Somalis and Ethiopians, but I would wager that Kememu would have the greatest biological affinity to other Nilotics, particularly the Sudanese. Some black nomads such as the Beja and some Tuareg would probably also have a relationship to Kememu. Most probably, the Kememu would not have a close relationship with the Bantu, Khoisans, Pygmies, or those "North African Caucasoids".
Any research that may suggest an answer?
* "Kememu" = Ancient Egyptian for those unintiated into Egyptsearch
Posts: 7082 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Underpants Man: Most probably, the Kememu would not have a close relationship with the Bantu, Khoisans, Pygmies, or those "North African Caucasoids".
Then apparently, you haven't read this:
Lower Egypt (n=162); V=51.9%, XI=11.7%, and IV=1.2%.
Upper Egypt (n=66); V=24.2%, XI=28.8%, and IV=27.3%.
Lower Nubia (n=46); V=17.4%, XI=30.4%, and IV=39.1%.
The primary haplotypes found in Europe, XII and XV, according to Keita, could have likely entered into the country via Greco-Roman invasions, are found in Lower Egypt at 3.7% and 6.8% respectively. Not surprising, the frequencies of these two are lower in Upper egypt, with XII not represented, while XV is at 6.1%. They are absent in Lower Nubia. These results are according to Lucotte and Mercier's findings, 2003.
Courtesy of S. O. Y. Keita, Explanation of the Pattern of P49a,f TaqI RFLP Y-Chromosome Variation in Egypt, 2005
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Lower Egypt (n=162); V=51.9%, XI=11.7%, and IV=1.2%.
Upper Egypt (n=66); V=24.2%, XI=28.8%, and IV=27.3%.
Lower Nubia (n=46); V=17.4%, XI=30.4%, and IV=39.1%.
The primary haplotypes found in Europe, XII and XV, according to Keita, could have likely entered into the country via Greco-Roman invasions, are found in Lower Egypt at 3.7% and 6.8% respectively. Not surprising, the frequencies of these two are lower in Upper egypt, with XII not represented, while XV is at 6.1%. They are absent in Lower Nubia. These results are according to Lucotte and Mercier's findings, 2003.
Courtesy of S. O. Y. Keita, Explanation of the Pattern of P49a,f TaqI RFLP Y-Chromosome Variation in Egypt, 2005
I don't deny that modern Egyptians have some relationship with southern Europeans. I said that the Kememu Egyptians probably didn't have a close relationship with those people, unless one could prove the Greeks inherited E3b from stray Egyptian sailors.
Posts: 7082 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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People have to understand that East Afrika is the core of Afrikan Civilization Development, West Afrika is a result of recent migration from East Afrika. West Afrika was NOT very hospitable for human habitation. Most Afrikans have a more ancient ancestral connection to EAST Afrika, coupled with the fact that majority of East Afrika practiced the Kemetic religion and culture so the idea of West Afrikans means not being Kemetic does not prove very factual.
Starting from about 500 BC (although the peopling of West Africa goes back to at least 2000 BC) various ancient African peoples indigenous to the continent started to settle the Lower Niger, Savannah fringe and forest regions of present day Southern Nigeria.
These ancient peoples had come from different parts of Africa namely the old Sahara grasslands, North Africa, North east Africa (Nile-Valley) and the East African Great lakes region: which were the homes of more ancient civilisations going back at least 10,000 years. As to who arrived first is of no consequence, since the land was too vast for any one people to lay claim to the whole.
For our research topic we have singled out four distinct ancient peoples whose names have come down to us through tradition, who combined and came together in various ways to give birth to the kingdoms of Southern Nigeria. These ancient people have been identified as:
1.The ORU or KUMONI (also known as the ONU or ANU people) they were an aquatic based culture, settling the banks of rivers and watersides. They were indigenous to the Nile Valley and Lake Chad regions before moving south (an exhaustive comparison between the ancient religious and cultural system of the twin Nile-Valley civilisations of Egypt and Sudan, plus language studies enables us to conclude that the ANU or ONU were ethnically the same as the ORU.
2.The IGBO or UGBO (also known as OOYELAGBO) a branch of the Kwa, they were land based. They were originally situated in East Africa, before migrating to the north of the Niger/Benue confluence region in antiquity.
3.The EFA, they were also land based. The EFA & IGBO seem to have descended from a people once known as the KWA or KWARA people, who inhabited the Middle Niger/Benue confluence region (hence its original name of Kwara river).
4.The BANTU & SEMI BANTU of unknown names, from east and central Africa. THE EVENTS THAT GAVE RISE TO THE FOUNDATION OF IFE, BENIN & DELTA STATES The period between 500 BC & 700 AD was a time of great demographic change and population migration in West Africa.
From a central location situated within the Niger/Benue confluence valley, some sections of the KWA people namely the IGBO and EFA started to migrate and settle the now Western and Eastern Nigeria regions. Also around about this period, from the Nile Valley and Lake Chad regions, the ancient ORU or KUMONI people started to settle the middle Niger, Lower Niger and Mid-west regions of present Nigeria.
Some, even settling and making their way to the Niger Delta coast. By about 500 AD scattered primordial isolated communities of all the aforementioned ancient peoples began to come into being throughout the Southern Nigeria region.
This isolated and stateless existence situation was changed with the arrival of fresh immigrants from the Nile Valley due to the Arab onslaught from about 640 AD. In the various traditions these immigrants are referred to as having came from EGYPT, SUDAN, & ARABIA (MECCA) To clear up this point.
The use of the term MECCA or ARABIA is just a reference to the EAST, While references to Egypt and Sudan have more factual foundation, as these civilisations were clearly indigenous Black African civilisations up until their colonisation by the Arabs .
The migration route of these stream of refugees fleeing the upheavals of North East Africa was through the Lake Chad – Middle Niger (Borgu/Bussa/Nupe) then on to the Ife, Benin and Lower Niger regions.
1 ] J O Vogel (1997)-editor - Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa-Archaeology, History, Language, Cultures and Environment, p172.
Lower Egypt (n=162); V=51.9%, XI=11.7%, and IV=1.2%.
Upper Egypt (n=66); V=24.2%, XI=28.8%, and IV=27.3%.
Lower Nubia (n=46); V=17.4%, XI=30.4%, and IV=39.1%.
The primary haplotypes found in Europe, XII and XV, according to Keita, could have likely entered into the country via Greco-Roman invasions, are found in Lower Egypt at 3.7% and 6.8% respectively. Not surprising, the frequencies of these two are lower in Upper egypt, with XII not represented, while XV is at 6.1%. They are absent in Lower Nubia. These results are according to Lucotte and Mercier's findings, 2003.
Courtesy of S. O. Y. Keita, Explanation of the Pattern of P49a,f TaqI RFLP Y-Chromosome Variation in Egypt, 2005
I don't deny that modern Egyptians have some relationship with southern Europeans. I said that the Kememu Egyptians probably didn't have a close relationship with those people, unless one could prove the Greeks inherited E3b from stray Egyptian sailors.
It is interesting that you chose to see the rather trivial mention of European lineages in my post, while ignoring the broader picture, in response to your post [particularly the portion that I was replying to], which makes no mention of Europeans. I guess, I should have simply posted this portion...
Lower Egypt (n=162); V=51.9%, XI=11.7%, and IV=1.2%.
Upper Egypt (n=66); V=24.2%, XI=28.8%, and IV=27.3%.
Lower Nubia (n=46); V=17.4%, XI=30.4%, and IV=39.1%.
...so that now, perhaps you can take home the actual point that is being communicated. Let's see if that is the case...
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Underpants Man is a youth cutting his Africana teeth with us, so he may not be familiar with the various haplotype naming systems nor seen
G. Lucotte and G. Mercier. 2003. “Brief Communication:Y-chromosome Haplotypes in Egypt,” Am. J. Physical Anthropology 121:63-66
Maybe a walk through by a gentle guiding hand will help him see your astute subtleties?
quote:Originally posted by Supercar: It is interesting that you chose to see the rather trivial mention of European lineages in my post, while ignoring the broader picture, in response to your post [particularly the portion that I was replying to], which makes no mention of Europeans. I guess, I should have simply posted this portion...
Lower Egypt (n=162); V=51.9%, XI=11.7%, and IV=1.2%.
Upper Egypt (n=66); V=24.2%, XI=28.8%, and IV=27.3%.
Lower Nubia (n=46); V=17.4%, XI=30.4%, and IV=39.1%.
...so that now, perhaps you can take home the actual point that is being communicated. Let's see if that is the case...
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I think that V=E3b2 XI=E3b1 and IV=E3a. I don't know if I am right I could be wrong. If anybody else can explain it better to Underpants Man I hope they do so he understands it better.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I think what is being said is that ancient Egyptians were generally more similar to people like Somalis and Ethiopians. Even in Somalia, all the people do not look the same. Therefore, it is not so much that Egyptians and Somalis look the same, but that you dont have to go OUTSIDE Africa to find the basis for features like narrow faces, narrow noses and other features some have deemed FOREIGN to Africa. These features are not foreign and it is found in a wide swath throughout Africa, but especially among those populations mentioned in the beginning of the thread.
Posts: 8896 | Registered: May 2005
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quote: Is it just me or Upper Egyptians especially Nubians don't look like Somalis at all?
I agree. The ancient Egyptians were very diverse like the Nubians. Contemporary Somali on the otherhand appear to be very homogenous. This may result from the influence of segregating Islamic cultural values, especially in relation to segregation of women, Somalis inherited from their Arabian brothers. It is clear that by the Somalis being close to Arabia, they have been deeply influenced by conservative Islamic fiqh such as Wahhabism, and the promotion of marriage mainly among and within their own close tribal relations.
.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Pax Dahomensis: Is it just me or Upper Egyptians especially Nubians don't look like Somalis at all?
why do manny somali`s the same big forhead
Well thats our trademark.
Now answer this why do you look like a hybrid between modern human and Neandertal?
And do you take joy when strangers look at your sister through a sexual lens? it was quite obvious how satisfied you felt when the pic of your sister was being commented by being sexy, hot, etc, you even praised the comments. What kind of brother pimps his sister in such manners?? ===>
This world never seize to amaze me Posts: 1420 | Registered: May 2005
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U guys are right about most of the points Ancient Kemet was african indeed without a doubt but i think u guys are to much picking and chooseing which africans u want to be similar to the Ancient Kemites. There is a concept in Ethiopian culture about the color of the skin and in the skin color of one Ethiopian family there can be 3 different types lightred ,Bronze as many ethiopians are & Black each one of these is a Ethiopian to the pureness. They say that Every Ethiopian can produce 3 different colors and the same is similar from Southern Egypt all the way to Northern Kenya. There is no difference between Somalians Ethiopians Eritreans Djiboutes Afars Northern Sudanese & southern Egyptians they actually look very similar the Beja people are very East African looking as well no different than the Beja of eritrea & Ethiopia who look no different than Somalians & Ethiopians. To prove how similar in appearance these people can be u should go check the CIA website in there joint task fight against terrorism in the HOrn of Africa countries include Yemen Sudan Ethiopia Eritrea Djibouti & Somalia there biggest problem is figuering out what country there detaines are from because most of them look exactly the same.
-------------------- Hikuptah Al-Masri Posts: 526 | From: Aswan Egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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I am going to say this again from my previous posts. People from southern Egypt and the Sudan are not necessarily the same as people from the Horn of Africa. Of course, there are people within these places that look like Horn Africans but also some people from these areas that look no different from many African Americans.
Ancient Egypt was populated by many different African types from the Sahara,Upper Nile and also the Horn of Africa. Archaeology and bio-anthropology show the following to be true. If you are curious about the populating of early Upper Egypt look up the Badarian and Naqada cultures. For Sudan look up the Khartoum Mesolithic and Neolithic cultures. All the following have connections to cultures in the Sahara desert.
The Sahara desert was once more moist than today and hosted both broad and narrow types of African phenotypes. Most contemporary Western Africans come from the early Saharan groups.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
How in the hell can any of u say that the Egyptians of modern day Egypt look the same as Sudanese. Ausar u are completely wrong Sudanese resemble africans from Africa no Egyptians of Northern or Southern Egypt. U can bring 5 million sudanese in here right know and we can look at them all and none will look like a Egyptain they will look like there Horn of african brothers every Sudanese i meet has more close affinities with Somalians Ethiopians and Eritreans. Actually Sudan has the exact same tribes of Eritrea including the Beja Hedareb Nuer Dinka Jenub/Nubians. I actually dont disagree about the Sahara Groups but saying that Sudanese are not the same as people from the horn is actually ridiculous Sudan is in the Horn and any sudanese u meet will tell u they have more closer links with Horn of Africans than Egyptians & Lybians.
-------------------- Hikuptah Al-Masri Posts: 526 | From: Aswan Egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:How in the hell can any of u say that the Egyptians of modern day Egypt look the same as Sudanese. Ausar u are completely wrong Sudanese resemble africans from Africa no Egyptians of Northern or Southern Egypt.
Sudanese resemble Africans from Africa? I did not say that all Sudanese look like Egyptians but that Southern Egyptians[especially Aswanis] often resemble Northern Sudanese people. You are trying to say Sudanese and the Horn of Africa are primarily ethnically and culturally the same people which they are not. Most Sudanese are Nilotic people with some slight Arab mixture. You have groups in Northern Sudan like the Baggara that look little different than Dinka or Shilluk people in Southern Sudan. You also have Nuba poeple that look like your typical Central African. You have Beja that look like Somalis.
Anyway, the original topic was about what contemporary Africans have the most relation to ancient Egyptians. The following is hard to pinpoint because the Africans that populated early pre-dyanstic Egypt exist in the rural Egyptians but has been modified with incursions of Eur-Asians.
Hikuptah, you really should let other people speak for themselves. Let the Sudanese decide who they identify with or not.
You are also trying to identify modern populations with current populations in the Sahara. You cannot do this because the Sahara about 6,000 or so years ago was probably very different than many of the people occupying it.
You really need to investigate the pre-history of Egypt to understand who exactly populated it.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:U cant Explain Ancient Egypt with Semitic Egypt. Its like trying to Explain Ancient America with the Americans u see today
A linguistic shift does not necessarily mean a population shift. Semitic is not a racial term but a linguistic one. Who is trying to use modern Egypt to explain ancient Egypt? Other than your American analogy is bankrupt due to the different histories. We see no wide scale massacres like in America with the native Americans.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Here are two pictures of Sudanese people These Sudanese look like alot of African Americans. These are Northern Sudanese.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Underpants Man is a youth cutting his Africana teeth with us
I'll admit, I tend to feel confused by some of the technobabble and codewords used to discuss the analyses of genetic data in this forum. Seriously, a lot of potentially intriguing conclusions get bogged down in alienating terminology that laypeople with questions can't plow through easily, let alone comprehend. As long as scientists continue to use this level of gibberish, the lay public will find it difficult to learn about science and therefore uneducated about it and receptive to bunk like creationism, parapsychology, and Aryanist/Mediterraneanist culture thievery.
Posts: 7082 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Hikuptah: U guys are right about most of the points Ancient Kemet was african indeed without a doubt but i think u guys are to much picking and chooseing which africans u want to be similar to the Ancient Kemites. There is a concept in Ethiopian culture about the color of the skin and in the skin color of one Ethiopian family there can be 3 different types lightred ,Bronze as many ethiopians are & Black each one of these is a Ethiopian to the pureness. They say that Every Ethiopian can produce 3 different colors and the same is similar from Southern Egypt all the way to Northern Kenya. There is no difference between Somalians Ethiopians Eritreans Djiboutes Afars Northern Sudanese & southern Egyptians they actually look very similar the Beja people are very East African looking as well no different than the Beja of eritrea & Ethiopia who look no different than Somalians & Ethiopians. To prove how similar in appearance these people can be u should go check the CIA website in there joint task fight against terrorism in the HOrn of Africa countries include Yemen Sudan Ethiopia Eritrea Djibouti & Somalia there biggest problem is figuering out what country there detaines are from because most of them look exactly the same.
The three colors are Qey (Tgn. QeyH - red), T.eyim (brown) and T.iqur (black). There's also Qey-dama, meaning red-brown or "half red" (dama is reddish brown or dark red, cognate to Hebrew Adam along with the verb "addema" to be red, or maybe from the word for blood "dem"). T.eyim is the best color, but you can find all three colors in one family. My grandfather is T.iqur and my grandmother is T.eyim, but of their daughters, two are Qey (one especially light), and the rest are basically T.eyim (some being dark T.eyim but not T.iqur). Also, a cousin (2nd or something like that) of mine has parents who are Qey and Qey-dama with two sons that are T.eyim and Qey-dama, but he's almost literally white (his skin is like a Hispanic and only people who know him believe he's black). All of the colors (aside from my cousin's) are considered pure (Semitic speaking) Ethiopian, with lighter colors assigned to the "talyan" (Italians) and the darker to the "Barya or "Shanqella (both now pejorative terms, the first the name of an ancient and still existing tribe that took on the meaning of "slave," the second referring to the Nilotic-speaking tribes on the Western borderlands).
Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
^Speaking of which, what about "n.etch" [I believe means "white"], while "kasal" [coal] could take the connotation of a pejorative in association with "t.iqoor" (black)?!
Back to the issue at hand:
quote:Originally posted by ausar: You are trying to say Sudanese and the Horn of Africa are primarily ethnically and culturally the same people which they are not. Most Sudanese are Nilotic people with some slight Arab mixture. You have groups in Northern Sudan like the Baggara that look little different than Dinka or Shilluk people in Southern Sudan. You also have Nuba poeple that look like your typical Central African. You have Beja that look like Somalis...
You really need to investigate the pre-history of Egypt to understand who exactly populated it.
I've learnt that there are people, for political reasons, who will insist on hanging onto unsubstantiated stereotypes of socio-cultural anthropology. Notice that citations from Keita and some other bio-anthropologists are baselessly dismissed by some parties, judging by continual propagation of these stereotypes.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Underpants Man is a youth cutting his Africana teeth with us
I'll admit, I tend to feel confused by some of the technobabble and codewords used to discuss the analyses of genetic data in this forum. Seriously, a lot of potentially intriguing conclusions get bogged down in alienating terminology that laypeople with questions can't plow through easily, let alone comprehend. As long as scientists continue to use this level of gibberish, the lay public will find it difficult to learn about science and therefore uneducated about it and receptive to bunk like creationism, parapsychology, and Aryanist/Mediterraneanist culture thievery.
Sudanese resemble Africans from Africa? I did not say that all Sudanese look like Egyptians but that Southern Egyptians[especially Aswanis] often resemble Northern Sudanese people. You are trying to say Sudanese and the Horn of Africa are primarily ethnically and culturally the same people which they are not. Most Sudanese are Nilotic people with some slight Arab mixture. You have groups in Northern Sudan like the Baggara that look little different than Dinka or Shilluk people in Southern Sudan. You also have Nuba poeple that look like your typical Central African. You have Beja that look like Somalis.
Now to say that Aswanis look like Northern Sudanese is completely wrong because Aswan is full of Sudanese u are mixing up Sudanese who are from Sudan as Egyptians from Aswan. If Sudanese resemble Southern Egyptians now why would u think that a South African or Ugandan can not resemble a Southern Egyptian. It seems to me u are trying to darken the Southern Egyptians so much that u want them to resemble Northern Sudanse because u know that ancient Egypt Resembles Africans of Africa more than they do Egyptians Nowadays. Ausar those pictures u showed of those Sudanese look nothing like southern Egyptians if anything they resemble horn of africans and african Americans and the rest of africa. U dont have to give me arun of the tribes of sudan i know Sudan more than u Do many of my friends are sudanese.
Ausar u keep bring up Sudanese are Nilothic with arab mixture keep using these Western games they play to make africans look different from eachother with your Nilothic Omotic Hamitic Semitic terms this is all bullshit Africans are all the same Culturally ethnically and physically. YOur letting these Educated Fools fool U i never will ever need no White or Foriegner Egyptologist or Scientist to tell me that the Ancient Egyptians are African Similar to West South & East Africans as well as African Americans. So Save your Nilothic Semitic OMotic bullshit for someone else. Most Northern Africans dont like to be called africans and most of them dont give themselves African Lineages.
-------------------- Hikuptah Al-Masri Posts: 526 | From: Aswan Egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Now to say that Aswanis look like Northern Sudanese is completely wrong because Aswan is full of Sudanese u are mixing up Sudanese who are from Sudan as Egyptians from Aswan.
I don't know where you get your information that Aswan has lots fo Sudanese when it doesn't. The only numerous people in Sudan are Sa3eedis and Nubians. Many indigenous Sa3eedi people look like northern Sudanese people. Aswan in the city might have some Sudanese immigrants but they are not that numerous.
Most northern Sudanese tend to migrate at Cairo not Aswan.
quote:If Sudanese resemble Southern Egyptians now why would u think that a South African or Ugandan can not resemble a Southern Egyptian
I said northern Sudanese. Southern Sudanese have a unique body shape and look that I doubt you would find in southern Egypt. Ugandans are both Bantu and Nilotic.
quote: It seems to me u are trying to darken the Southern Egyptians so much that u want them to resemble Northern Sudanse because u know that ancient EgyptResembles Africans of Africa more than they do Egyptians Nowadays
I am not trying to darkern anybody. Plenty of Aswanis are very dark as are other Sa3eedis. On average they are slighty lighter than northern Sudanese. Actually, ancient Egyptian artwork shows a people with reddish-brown to dark brown coloring. Fits rather well with most southern Egyptians.
In your previous post you mention the southern Egyptians,Northern Sudanese,and Horn Africans as they all have similar phenotypes. Know you switch it up and say northern Sudanese don't appear like southern Egyptians. Definately not the first time you make confusing statements
quote:Ausar those pictures u showed of those Sudanese look nothing like southern Egyptians if anything they resemble horn of africans and african Americans and the rest of africa. U dont have to give me arun of the tribes of sudan i know Sudan more than u Do many of my friends are sudanes
Those people I posted don't look anything like Horn of Africans and neither do most African Americans. Plenty of Aswabis look like the people I posted.
They so resemble these Aswanis though:
quote:Ausar u keep bring up Sudanese are Nilothic with arab mixture keep using these Western games they play to make africans look different from eachother with your Nilothic Omotic Hamitic Semitic terms this is all bullshit Africans are all the same Culturally ethnically and physically. YOur letting these Educated Fools fool U i never will ever need no White or Foriegner Egyptologist or Scientist to tell me that the Ancient Egyptians are African Similar to West South & East Africans as well as African Americans. So Save your Nilothic Semitic OMotic bullshit for someone else. Most Northern Africans dont like to be called africans and most of them dont give themselves African Lineages.
You were the same person who said that a person that looks like Pepi could not fit into southern Egypt. You mentioned that southern Egyptians had a unique look. In a previous post you even mentioned that people were trying to mix and match what Africans came from the ancient Egyptians. You say in one post that ancient Egyptians in artworks are tall and lanky like southern Sudanese etc....
You change your mind more times than a chamelon changes color. Listen, I said that the ancient Egyptians were populated by migrations from the Upper Nile,Sahara and parts of the Horn of Africa. You were the one tying to make Horn of Africans exclusive to ancient Egypt not me.
When did I ever mention Northern Africans? Many poeple in Egypt might deny they have African lineages but most of the people in southern Egypt have African lineages and it shows in their phenotype. The same goes with the northern Sudanese that will deny they are even black or African but they still are.
You are the same person on another thread that want to claim that Italian and Greek looking Copts are direct desendants of the ancient Egyptians;while my Sa3eedi people[who many times would pass for black in America] are not related to the ancient Egyptians.
Africa is a continent not one big country. Africans have diverse phenotypes and cultural pratices.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Now to say that Aswanis look like Northern Sudanese is completely wrong because Aswan is full of Sudanese u are mixing up Sudanese who are from Sudan as Egyptians from Aswan. If Sudanese resemble Southern Egyptians now why would u think that a South African or Ugandan can not resemble a Southern Egyptian. It seems to me u are trying to darken the Southern Egyptians so much that u want them to resemble Northern Sudanse because u know that ancient Egypt Resembles Africans of Africa more than they do Egyptians Nowadays.
Do I sense the "Snowden" syndrom here? Anyone who "resembles" a Sudanese or whatever tropical Africans have you in Egypt, must be labeled a "Sudanese" or "Nubian". Fact is, there is nothing substantive in your claims whatsoever; just wishful thinking.
quote:Hikuptah:
Ausar u keep bring up Sudanese are Nilothic with arab mixture keep using these Western games they play to make africans look different from eachother with your Nilothic Omotic Hamitic Semitic terms this is all bullshit Africans are all the same Culturally ethnically and physically.
Interesting. Just momentarily, you were trying to do just that; to make Egyptians "look different" from other Africans, and now in hypocritic manner, turn around and accuse someone else of using "European" constructs of dividing Africans. Fact is, Africans are diverse biologically and culturally, but at the same time, bear "affinities" in both aspects - biologically and culturally.
quote:Hikuptah:
YOur letting these Educated Fools fool U i never will ever need no White or Foriegner Egyptologist or Scientist to tell me that the Ancient Egyptians are African Similar to West South & East Africans as well as African Americans.
Man, it is up to you to disregard 'objectivity' when you throw science out the window. Just know that with this attitude, you'll descend into irrelevancy - i.e. no one taking you seriously.
quote:Hikuptah:
So Save your Nilothic Semitic OMotic bullshit for someone else. Most Northern Africans dont like to be called africans
...presumably like yourself?...in which case, you might want to take it upon yourself to vacate the continent - which will remain "Africa". "Africa" did not ask you to be part of it, nor is forcing you to utilize its resources.
quote:Hikuptah: and most of them dont give themselves African Lineages.
You don't give yourself "African lineages"; you don't give yourself your "parents" or your "biological" entities. It is what they are. Hey, nobody is forcing you to be human either. To be human, you'd have to acknowledge your ultimate "African" origins.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: I am going to say this again from my previous posts. People from southern Egypt and the Sudan are not necessarily the same as people from the Horn of Africa. Of course, there are people within these places that look like Horn Africans but also some people from these areas that look no different from many African Americans.
Ancient Egypt was populated by many different African types from the Sahara,Upper Nile and also the Horn of Africa. Archaeology and bio-anthropology show the following to be true. If you are curious about the populating of early Upper Egypt look up the Badarian and Naqada cultures. For Sudan look up the Khartoum Mesolithic and Neolithic cultures. All the following have connections to cultures in the Sahara desert.
The Sahara desert was once more moist than today and hosted both broad and narrow types of African phenotypes. Most contemporary Western Africans come from the early Saharan groups.
In most cases, the morphological descriptions of early southern "Egyptian" crania clearly fall within Broad to Elongated Saharo-tropical African ranges of variation. If treated as an unknown, Egyptian variation has to be judged in the context of the range of early Saharo-tropical African variation (Broad to Elongated) and not be analyzed in terms of one abstracted phenotype deemed to be the only "African." In other words, the baseline definition of biological African has to take in the entire range of tropical African variability, including fossil and subfossil data, and not be based on the baised (for whatever reason) misusing of race theorists from the earlier part of this century. - Keita
Egyptian: too "Negroid"?
This should be the end of it here.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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What are we arguing about? Upper Egyptians are more African then Copts? This thread is getting confusing with all the double talk. The truth is that Upper Egyptians like the Saidi(I hope I spelled it right) Look more African then the Copts who mostly look like Europeans.
Hear is some pictures of Upper Egyptians
Upper Egyptians look more African looking. These are the people who look more like the Ancient Egyptians. As for some of them looking like people from the Horn, some do and some don't.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Ausar who do u really think u are playing for a fool are u serious u think that Nubians are Not Sudanese when i say Sudan i mean the Whole Sudan Darfur Khartoum Nubians these are all Sudanese and they all look the same no matter who is darker or lighter.
U must really be kidding telling me those pictures of those kids in Aswan do not look like Ethiopians Eritreans any Habashi would think those kids are Habashi now i know u have never been to Aswan nor have u ever seen a Horn of AFrican.
U also said that there are no Sudanese in Aswan Who the Hell do u think the Nubians are inless u are trying to give the people of Sudan the identity that u want.
U all are so confused about my position on Southern Egyptians & Nubians first of all Most of u have never been to Southern Egypt and i bet Ausar u have never lived in Aswan either the people of southern Egypt dont even think they are similar to the Nubians who they claim are Black Abid Aswad u even now this Ausar so dont try to play your games tell all these african American and African brother and sisters how racist most Egyptians are towards Nubians.
No Non-Nubian Southern Egyptian would ever claim to be a Black African trust me im from Aswan they are bias against Nubians. Most of u think that all your information about Ancient Egypt is correct but none of u can say for sure u are right for all truth u dont even know if these Egyptologist are even translating the Hieroglifics right. Lets just say that if the Ancient Egyptians were here today everything u guys are saying they would not agree point blank.
-------------------- Hikuptah Al-Masri Posts: 526 | From: Aswan Egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Hikuptah: Ausar who do u really think u are playing for a fool are u serious u think that Nubians are Not Sudanese when i say Sudan i mean the Whole Sudan Darfur Khartoum Nubians these are all Sudanese and they all look the same no matter who is darker or lighter.
U must really be kidding telling me those pictures of those kids in Aswan do not look like Ethiopians Eritreans any Habashi would think those kids are Habashi now i know u have never been to Aswan nor have u ever seen a Horn of AFrican.
U also said that there are no Sudanese in Aswan Who the Hell do u think the Nubians are inless u are trying to give the people of Sudan the identity that u want.
U all are so confused about my position on Southern Egyptians & Nubians first of all Most of u have never been to Southern Egypt and i bet Ausar u have never lived in Aswan either the people of southern Egypt dont even think they are similar to the Nubians who they claim are Black Abid Aswad u even now this Ausar so dont try to play your games tell all these african American and African brother and sisters how racist most Egyptians are towards Nubians.
No Non-Nubian Southern Egyptian would ever claim to be a Black African trust me im from Aswan they are bias against Nubians. Most of u think that all your information about Ancient Egypt is correct but none of u can say for sure u are right for all truth u dont even know if these Egyptologist are even translating the Hieroglifics right. Lets just say that if the Ancient Egyptians were here today everything u guys are saying they would not agree point blank.
Psuedo-objective nattering will get you nowhere.
quote:Hikuptah: U all are so confused about my position on Southern Egyptians & Nubians
We are all clear on one thing: that even YOU are confused about your own position.
quote:Hikuptah: first of all Most of u have never been to Southern Egypt
Is your psychic powers at work or what? For all we know, you could be an imposter of an Egyptian, whose never laid foot on Egyptian soil, much less southern Egypt - who knows! Face it; you don't know jack about the background of any poster here, unless he/she specifically said so.
quote:Hikuptah: Most of u think that all your information about Ancient Egypt is correct
We certainly have "concrete" substantiation for the said information, through available evidence.
quote:Hikuptah: u dont even know if these Egyptologist are even translating the Hieroglifics right.
In that Egyptian language survived longer than the exclusively "indigenous" script, with the latter mixing with a script of foreign development before bits of the former got incorporated into contemporary Egyptian arabic, why should reasonable translations of scripts with the aid of pictographs not be possible?
quote:Hikuptah: Lets just say that if the Ancient Egyptians were here today everything u guys are saying they would not agree point blank.
What would those "everything" specifically entail?
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Once again and again u are mixing Nubians/Sudanese as Southern Egyptians Yes Nubians who are sudanese are in Southern Egypt there are many of them.
Let me explain the pictures of those people u have for i am a Southern Egyptian i know the people.
The first picture of those kids they are Nubians yes they are african and yes they are decendants of the Ancient Egyptians not denying that.
The Second picture is of a southern egyptian girl who looks no different than a Southern Yemeni girl the girl is african and related to ancient egypt.
Basically the pictures u have are mixed pictures of Sudanese Nubians with southern Egyptians who have more had mixture than the Nubian Boy on the Boat this is what im talking about what all u guys are so mixed up about for instance the Beja are related to the ancient egyptians but they are much darker than most southern egyptians so are the Nubians they are much darker than Ausar and me but they are related to the Ancient Egyptians so what im trying to say is that none of u guys can pinpoint the ancient egyptians to one specific look or group of people. U guys really need to take a look at yemen most Southern Egyptians can pass for Southern Yemenis. Its funny how every place u go from Turkey to Saudi to even China and Iran the Southern People of Iran Turkey Saudi China are all dark skinned why is that that everywhere u go the people of the south are always darker than the Northern ones.
-------------------- Hikuptah Al-Masri Posts: 526 | From: Aswan Egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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The first picture of those kids they are Nubians yes they are african and yes they are decendants of the Ancient Egyptians not denying that.
You are in fact denying that, when you try to attribute real southern Egyptians, whose ancestors probably predate those of your own in the region, as "Sudanese".
quote:Hikuptah:
The Second picture is of a southern egyptian girl who looks no different than a Southern Yemeni girl the girl is african and related to ancient egypt.
Basically the pictures u have are mixed pictures of Sudanese Nubians with southern Egyptians who have more had mixture than the Nubian Boy on the Boat this is what im talking about what all u guys are so mixed up about for instance the Beja are related to the ancient egyptians but they are much darker than most southern egyptians so are the Nubians they are much darker than Ausar and me but they are related to the Ancient Egyptians
Where can we find the genetic samplings you have done on the said folks, to come to the interesting conclusions you just made?
quote:Hikuptah:
so what im trying to say is that none of u guys can pinpoint the ancient egyptians to one specific look or group of people.
...but you certainly have done that, and still trying to do so. Went on deff ears, but you've been reminded time and again that indigenous ancient Egyptians have however, been traced back to Sahelian-tropical African origins; they left their remains and records of their cultural aspects.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Hikuptah: Can any of u tell me why they call the darkskinned people of Aswan Nubians and the others Southern Egyptians.
Can you tell us why the said "Nubians" are any less Egyptian than "northern Eurasian" [by your own admission] looking types like you?
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Ausar who do u really think u are playing for a fool are u serious u think that Nubians are Not Sudanese when i say Sudan i mean the Whole Sudan Darfur Khartoum Nubians these are all Sudanese and they all look the same no matter who is darker or lighter
Nubians are just Nubians. You have different Nubians that speak different dialects such as Kenuzi,Fadija,and etc. Personally, I consider the Nubians living within Egypt to be Egyptians,but it only matters who Nubians themselves consider themselves. Since no Nubians are here I will refrain from speaking for them.
quote:U must really be kidding telling me those pictures of those kids in Aswan do not look like Ethiopians Eritreans any Habashi would think those kids are Habashi now i know u have never been to Aswan nor have u ever seen a Horn of AFrican.
But didn't you say previously that Southern Egyptians did not look like other Africans? We will let somebody actually from Ethiopia decide wheather these children as ''Habasi'' looking. Why not ask the poster Yom who is from Ethiopia about their apperance compaired to other Ethiopians.
I personally showed these pictures to some African Americans and they said these people look just like many African American children.
quote:U also said that there are no Sudanese in Aswan Who the Hell do u think the Nubians are inless u are trying to give the people of Sudan the identity that u want
I stand by what I said. No Sudanese resident lives in any village in Aswan. Nubians can chose for themselves the idenity they want. Never have I imposed any collective or individual idenity upon any group including the Sudanese.
quote:U all are so confused about my position on Southern Egyptians & Nubians first of all Most of u have never been to Southern Egypt and i bet Ausar u have never lived in Aswan either the people of southern Egypt dont even think they are similar to the Nubians who they claim are Black Abid Aswad u even now this Ausar so dont try to play your games tell all these african American and African brother and sisters how racist most Egyptians are towards Nubians
You are certainly right there is racism towards ''darker'' skinned poeple in Egypt,and especially towards people that look like western Africans and southern Sudanese. Nubians did face their share of discrimination but never from any Sa3eedi people. During the 1800's and even later many Nubians went to work in Cairo and Alexandria as Bawaabs and the Cairene and Alexandrian Egyptians developed many unfair streotypes about Nubians.
Sa3eedi people and Nubians always had a muncial relationship. You have to understand that Sa3eedi don't trust non-Sa3eedi people and the Nubians were not Sa3eedi and therefore might not have been trusted. You should know that wealthy Nubians themselves used Saidi people to work on their farms.
I never heard the term abeed used in Egypt to refer to ''black'' people nor as an insult. I have heard some derogatory terms used for black people such as hebaab. Stupid people in Cairo scream stuff at Western/Central/Southern Sudanese like chocolata.
I never heard any of these terms while I was in Upper Egypt. I heard people tell me stories about how little girls were discouraged from marrying darker skinned men in Luxor,but I never heard these stories personally.
One thing I can say positively about the Nubians is that they share the same customs as both rural Bahary fellahin,Baladi people and Sa3eedi people. Wheather it's el Sebeou,circumcision,mulids or even funerary traditions.
quote:No Non-Nubian Southern Egyptian would ever claim to be a Black African trust me im from Aswan they are bias against Nubians
First I will say that the people who politically run Aswan are the Gi'afra people and Ababda. Most of these groups have had representives in pariliment and both local elected officals. The Gi'afra and Nubians have somewhat of a rival with Nubians but its not comparable to racism.
You must understand that most people in Egypt don't have the same definitions of skin color that most Americans have. Even people from Inner Africa have their own definitions. What is ''black'' to most Sa3eedi poeple is a Western Africa,Central Africa or a southern Sudanese. Iswad even translates loosely in Egyptian colloquial Arabic to mean the color blue.
At the same token most blonde haired tourists often get made fun of in all parts of Egypt. People say the term Bodhra. Please understand I am not denying the racism in modern Egypt. The type of racism I would say is comprable to colorism in the Latin and Carribean countries.
quote:Most of u think that all your information about Ancient Egypt is correct but none of u can say for sure u are right for all truth u dont even know if these Egyptologist are even translating the Hieroglifics right. Lets just say that if the Ancient Egyptians were here today everything u guys are saying they would not agree point blank
I agree that Egyptology is largely speculation. Since ancient Egypt has no living language nor culture[other than the folk traditions of the rural Egyptians] all we have are fragments of what the ancient Egyptians left us. This is why we have to take a multi-displinary approach to unlocking the past of the ancient Egyptians. We apply archaeology,anthropology and other fields to understand better.
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Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Im not denying the Sahelian-Tropical African Origins. Supercar dont act like a Hamar when u adress me. What im trying to say is that the Southern Egyptians look more like half Black half Arab people. The Nuba people who u see wrestling on the walls of the reliefs of ancient egypt are african to the core with no admixture. A good example of Egypt is India for Northern India has a more lighter complexion than Southern Egpypt who are much darker than Most Southern Egyptians & Nuba/Nubians. Its like this one guy who tried to tell me that Egyptians were white but that the ones in the South were darker because its much hotter in the South and that they were farmers who were in the HOt sun for so long thats why they look more black than the people of the North but that is completely wrong. Ausar someone told me that the Southern Egyptians are half Nubians & half Arabs is this true i really see no evidence proving this.
-------------------- Hikuptah Al-Masri Posts: 526 | From: Aswan Egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Once again and again u are mixing Nubians/Sudanese as Southern Egyptians Yes Nubians who are sudanese are in Southern Egypt there are many of them.
Let me explain the pictures of those people u have for i am a Southern Egyptian i know the people.
The first picture of those kids they are Nubians yes they are african and yes they are decendants of the Ancient Egyptians not denying that.
The Second picture is of a southern egyptian girl who looks no different than a Southern Yemeni girl the girl is african and related to ancient egypt.
Basically the pictures u have are mixed pictures of Sudanese Nubians with southern Egyptians who have more had mixture than the Nubian Boy on the Boat this is what im talking about what all u guys are so mixed up about for instance the Beja are related to the ancient egyptians but they are much darker than most southern egyptians so are the Nubians they are much darker than Ausar and me but they are related to the Ancient Egyptians so what im trying to say is that none of u guys can pinpoint the ancient egyptians to one specific look or group of people. U guys really need to take a look at yemen most Southern Egyptians can pass for Southern Yemenis. Its funny how every place u go from Turkey to Saudi to even China and Iran the Southern People of Iran Turkey Saudi China are all dark skinned why is that that everywhere u go the people of the south are always darker than the Northern ones.
Actually, Hikuptah made another grave mistake,and know I really doubt his origins in southern Egypt. He mentioned that Nubians and Sa3eedi have mixed on a regular basis. The following is simply not true. Nubians themselves refuse to intermarry with Sa3eedi poeple. Saidi and Nubian people never intermarry with each other.
The way you can distinguish a Nubian from a Sa3eedi is two ways. Skin color is not the criteria[although many Nubians are often darker than Sa3eedi but not always]. Usually Nubians are differentiated from Sa3eedi by their dress and accent.
Hikuptah says the boy on the boat is a Nubian when infact that picture is around Aswan. He is wearing a blue gallabeiya. Nubians don't usually wear greyish or blue gallabeiya. Nubians usually wear long white robes.
quote:Im not denying the Sahelian-Tropical African Origins. Supercar dont act like a Hamar when u adress me. What im trying to say is that the Southern Egyptians look more like half Black half Arab people. The Nuba people who u see wrestling on the walls of the reliefs of ancient egypt are african to the core with no admixture. A good example of Egypt is India for Northern India has a more lighter complexion than Southern Egpypt who are much darker than Most Southern Egyptians & Nuba/Nubians. Its like this one guy who tried to tell me that Egyptians were white but that the ones in the South were darker because its much hotter in the South and that they were farmers who were in the HOt sun for so long thats why they look more black than the people of the North but that is completely wrong. Ausar someone told me that the Southern Egyptians are half Nubians & half Arabs is this true i really see no evidence proving this.
Whoever told you that southern Egyptians are half Nubian/Arabs are lying. Southern Egyptian are just Southern Egyptians. Certainly,they have mixture from the various foreigners that came into Egypt but retain a phenotype closer to the ancient Egyptians than most northern Egyptians.
Arabs never pentrated southern Egypt in that great of numbers. The bedouin Arabs that did come into southern Egypt would never marry a fellahin. Some have in more recent history because Muhammed Ali decreed that many bedouins had to settle down.
I am not understanding your analogy with Northern India. You said Northern India have a lighter complexion but are darker than most Southern Egyptians/Nubians? huh? Northern Indians are often as dark or darker than many people in southern India. You ever heard of the Toda in Southern India? Todas are not white but definately lighter than alot of Dravidians in Tamil Nadu. Have you ever seen a Indian from Bombay or Orissa? How about Indians in the Thar desert? Probably the lightest Indians are in Punjab where historically people like Greeks and Sychtians or Pashtuns have immigrated.
Nubians are not exactly the purest poeple. You have certain Nubian groups like the kushaf and Magraab Nubians that claim ancestry from Ottoman Turkish soliders and Hungarians. One of the ways Arabs brought down Nubian Christian kingdoms was through intermarriage with Nubian royal females. Since most Nubians were matrilineal.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Hamar is a Arabic word for red clay or red. There are people named Hamar.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I dont know if u guys notice but im testing u and im actually testing myself as well. I believe alot of what Ausar Supercar & djehuti has to say but that is my stance i like to evaluate every possible stance on everything i even tested the Egyptians are white point of view when u do the test and evalution that thesis fades away because of no evidence and the african point of view actually destroys the White egyptian myth. Everyone here has there own point of view and i love that its called reasoning and evaluating Everyone has the Right to a decision there are still Egyptologist who still say there is evidence proving the Ancient Egyptians to be White people they even say that the people of Modern Day Egypt have no relations to the ancient Egyptians nor do the Southern people or Nubians this of course is no longer up for debate They are africans period. U guys need to calm down im not disagreeing with u and i cant just agree with u without evalutating every possible position so if u hear things that are way out dont get alarmed im just doing my Evaluating of anything possible.
-------------------- Hikuptah Al-Masri Posts: 526 | From: Aswan Egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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Ausar just because he is in Aswan does not make him not Nubian. And the boy on the Boat is wearing a White Jallabeya he can even be a Sudanese from Khartoum who moved to Aswan for work. Sorry Ausar i messed up on the India what i as going to say was India and Egypt have the same situation as what we are talking about the Northern Indians are more white than the southern Indians Dravidians who are much darker than most Southern Egyptians & Nubians.
-------------------- Hikuptah Al-Masri Posts: 526 | From: Aswan Egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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I think u have again confused yourself and u have confused me i never said that Nubians and Saeedis intermarry i think u have never been around Sudanese of Northern sudan they call themselves Nubian as well are u saying that Sudanese of Northern Sudan do not intermarry with Egyptians cause that is funny. Another thing i really dont need your remarks about U not believeing im an Egyptian i can say the same to U but it doesnt matter to me What u think about my identity actually i hate nationality it means nothing to me u can never disrespect me by disrespecting my Country Egypt i have no allegance to no people nor any Flag or Culture or Ethnicity So u can stop talking about that its a void in my LIfe.
-------------------- Hikuptah Al-Masri Posts: 526 | From: Aswan Egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote: Ausar just because he is in Aswan does not make him not Nubian. And the boy on the Boat is wearing a White Jallabeya he can even be a Sudanese from Khartoum who moved to Aswan for work. Sorry Ausar i messed up on the India what i as going to say was India and Egypt have the same situation as what we are talking about the Northern Indians are more white than the southern Indians Dravidians who are much darker than most Southern Egyptians & Nubians.
Most Sudanese don't come to Aswan to work but to Cairo. You will never seen Sudanese as felleuca boat men. The point I was trying to make is that you cannot always tell the differences between a Sa3eedi and a Nubian soley by skin color alone. Most people in Aswan are a deep brown to black in color.
quote:I think u have again confused yourself and u have confused me i never said that Nubians and Saeedis intermarry i think u have never been around Sudanese of Northern sudan they call themselves Nubian as well
Most Northern Sudanese[unless they are Nubians] will not say they are Nubians. Most Nubians will identify themselves by Kenuzi,Mahas,and Fadija. At least the Northern Sudanese I have personally known.
quote:are u saying that Sudanese of Northern Sudan do not intermarry with Egyptians cause that is funny.
No, but intermarriage between Sudanese in Upper Egypt is next to none because very little Sudanese live in Upper Egypt. Most Sudanese live in Cairo or Alexandria.
quote:Another thing i really dont need your remarks about U not believeing im an Egyptian i can say the same to U but it doesnt matter to me What u think about my identity actually i hate nationality it means nothing to me u can never disrespect me by disrespecting my Country Egypt i have no allegance to no people nor any Flag or Culture or Ethnicity So u can stop talking about that its a void in my LIfe.
Well, I love Egypt and Egyptian people. Despite me living in the West, I would return to my country of Egypt anytime. Once my country becomes more stable and common people are allowed to persue more opportunities I will return. Most of my relatives come from rural villages in Luxor to Aswan and I am proud of my origins. You could never insult a real Sa3eedi or belittle a fellahin without catching my feelings.
You are suspect because of the various things you have said:
1. That Muslims ran your Jewish family from Elephantine Island
2. You mention your grandmother was related to some Coptic Mystic[you later caught yourself by saying he studied the Coptic language and not an actual Coptic Christian]
3. You then claim your people claim African and Arab lineages. Earlier you said you were African but then said you apologize for the atrosities ''your people'' did as Arabs. Huh?
4. You defend the Copts to death but don't know that most Copts[including Baba Shenouda] don't claim to be Monophysites.
Understand I use to post on an Egyptian newsgroup where people regulary claimed to be from Egypt[but find out many were Saudi Arabians or Israelis] trying to stir up hostilities. Not say you are but if you are then don't disgrace my Sa3eedi people by telling lies or telling us about ourselves. Just comment on ancient Egypt and your own experiances.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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