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Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}:
^Lol, I don't know about the latter, that they have yet to realize this, but good and true points.

As for the thread, now this is the type of thread I know many regulars get tired of seeing.

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oh you dont think shes hot? must have really high standards huh?

Posts: 447 | From: Somewhere son... | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by Obelisk_18:

quote:

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Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}:
^Lol, I don't know about the latter, that they have yet to realize this, but good and true points.

As for the thread, now this is the type of thread I know many regulars get tired of seeing.

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oh you dont think shes hot? must have really high standards huh?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Obe_18:

Yep, many historians, Afrocentrists among them, have yet to recognize that egyptians and nubians were racially and culturally much the same, and that Queen Tiye was really hot .

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Your statement summarized below:

"Yep, many historians, Afrocentrists among them, have yet to recognize [...] that Queen Tiye was really hot ."

^^^I don't know about the fact they have yet to realize that.





^Very attractive

Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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As for the thread, now this is the type of thread I know many regulars get tired of seeing.

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Posts: 229 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Nefar:
I read somewhere just now that queen tiye was nubian.
I thought she was egyptian.is this true?

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Queen Tiye was a beautiful woman.

A green steatite statue of Queen Tiye from the Louvre. Originally part of a group sttaue, but only the Queen's figure was preserved. The arm of (presumably) the King is visible to her right.



Head of Queen Tiye from the MetMuseum


A beautiful black granite statue of Queen Tiye, mother of the monotheistic king Akhnaten, was unearthed last Monday in Luxor, reports Nevine El-Aref. "The statue is mostly intact," said Zahi Hawass, secretary-general of the Supreme Council of Antiquities (SCA), who added that although the 160cm tall statue has a broken arm and a missing leg, it was still considered very well preserved. It features a standing Queen Tiye wearing a wig and a cobra-decorated crown. Initial examinations revealed that the back of the statue is engraved with two columns of hieroglyphic text bearing different titles of king Amenhotep III, who ruled for 38 years during the 18th Dynasty. According to Sabri Abdel-Aziz, head of the SCA's Ancient Egypt Department, the inscriptions written on the statue also include a cartouche of a 21st Dynasty queen called Henutaw, which reveals that the same statue was used in a subsequent era.


Smaller statues of Queen Tiye


Close up of Tiye


Fragmentary funerary mask of Queen Tiye. Part of the Ägyptisches Museum collection in Berlin.



Dynasty XVIII: Head of a statuette representing Queen Tiye Gray schist - H 0.072 From the Sinai region, found in the temple of Hathor, protective goddess of the turquoise mountain at Serabit el-Khadim in Sinai. Cairo, Museum of Archaeology Dimensions: Height 75 cm Side view



Same statue of Queen Tiye full view

Posts: 53 | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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The unprecedented thing about Tiyi ... is not where she came from but what she became. No previous queen ever figured so prominently in her husband's lifetime. Tiyi regularly appeared besides Amenhotep III in statuary, tomb and temple reliefs, and stelae while her name is paired with his on numerous small objects, such as vessels and jewelry, not to mention the large commemorative scarabs, where her name regularly follows his in the dateline. New elements in her portraiture, such as the addition of cows' horns and sun disks—attributes of the goddess Hathor—to her headdress, and her representation in the form of a sphinx—an image formerly reserved for the king—emphasize her role as the king's divine, as well as earthly partner. Amenhotep III built a temple to her in Sedeinga in northern Sudan, where she was worshiped as a form of Hathor ... The temple at Sedeinga was the pendant to Amenhotep III's own, larger temple at Soleb, fifteen kilometres to the south (an arrangement followed a century later by Ramses II at Abu Simbel, where there are likewise two temples, the larger southern temple dedicated to the king, and the smaller, northern temple dedicated to the queen, Nefertiry, as Hathor).[7]

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Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ I heard Amenhotep III even had an artificial lake built in the desert just off the Nile Valley, all for his wife Tiye. The guy must have loved his wife alot (as well as being seriously whipped), so she had to be seriously hot!

And she must have been hardcore too for a bust to depict her mean-mugging! LOL





A very bad ass chick!

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Posts: 447 | From: Somewhere son... | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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The mythology of the Aten, the radiant disk of the sun, is not only unique in Egyptian history, but is also one of the most complex and controversial aspects of Ancient Egypt.

The ancient Egyptian term for the disk of the sun was Aten, which is first evidenced during the Middle Kingdom, though of course solar worship begins much earlier in Egyptian history. It should be noted however that this term initially could be applied to any disk, including even the surface of a mirror or the moon. The term was used in the Coffin Texts to denote the sun disk, but in the 'Story of Sinuhe' dating from the Middle Kingdom, the word is used with the determinative for god (Papyrus Berlin 10499). In that story, Amenemhat I is described as soaring into the sky and uniting with Aten his creator.

Text written during the New Kingdom's 18th Dynasty frequently use the term to mean "throne" or "place" of the sun god. The word Aten was written using the hieroglyphic sign for "god" because the Egyptians tended to personify certain expressions. Eventually, the Aten was conceived as a direct manifestation of the sun god.

Though the Aten became particularly important during the New Kingdom reigns of Tuthmosis IV and Amenhotep III, mostly sole credit for the actual origin of the deity Aten must be credited to Amenhotep IV (Akhenaten). Even at the beginning of the New Kingdom, it's founder, Ahmose, is flattered on a stela by being likened to "Aten when he shines". His successor, Amenhotep I, becomes in death "united with Aten, coalescing with the one from whom he had come". Tuthmosis I was portrayed in his temple at Tombos in Nubia wearing the sun disk and followed by the hieroglyphic sign for 'god'. Hatshepsut used the term on her standing obelisk in the temple of Karnak to denote the astronomical concept of the disk, though it was actually during the reign of Amenhotep II that the earliest iconography of Aten appears on a monument at Giza as a winged sun disk (though this was a manifestation of Re) with outstretched arms grasping the cartouche of the pharaoh.

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Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Doug M:
The reason for Tiye being considered to have had a role in Akhenaten's religious revolution is because Aten worship actually started prior to Akhenaten and Amenhotep III was particularly fond of it.

quote:

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The mythology of the Aten, the radiant disk of the sun, is not only unique in Egyptian history, but is also one of the most complex and controversial aspects of Ancient Egypt.

The ancient Egyptian term for the disk of the sun was Aten, which is first evidenced during the Middle Kingdom, though of course solar worship begins much earlier in Egyptian history. It should be noted however that this term initially could be applied to any disk, including even the surface of a mirror or the moon. The term was used in the Coffin Texts to denote the sun disk, but in the 'Story of Sinuhe' dating from the Middle Kingdom, the word is used with the determinative for god (Papyrus Berlin 10499). In that story, Amenemhat I is described as soaring into the sky and uniting with Aten his creator.

Text written during the New Kingdom's 18th Dynasty frequently use the term to mean "throne" or "place" of the sun god. The word Aten was written using the hieroglyphic sign for "god" because the Egyptians tended to personify certain expressions. Eventually, the Aten was conceived as a direct manifestation of the sun god.

Though the Aten became particularly important during the New Kingdom reigns of Tuthmosis IV and Amenhotep III, mostly sole credit for the actual origin of the deity Aten must be credited to Amenhotep IV (Akhenaten). Even at the beginning of the New Kingdom, it's founder, Ahmose, is flattered on a stela by being likened to "Aten when he shines". His successor, Amenhotep I, becomes in death "united with Aten, coalescing with the one from whom he had come". Tuthmosis I was portrayed in his temple at Tombos in Nubia wearing the sun disk and followed by the hieroglyphic sign for 'god'. Hatshepsut used the term on her standing obelisk in the temple of Karnak to denote the astronomical concept of the disk, though it was actually during the reign of Amenhotep II that the earliest iconography of Aten appears on a monument at Giza as a winged sun disk (though this was a manifestation of Re) with outstretched arms grasping the cartouche of the pharaoh.

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From: http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/aten.htm

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wow thanks for da info babe , it seems Aten worship had quite a long history in egypt, and the Akhenaten's monotheism wasnt just something out of the blue, but the culmination of a historical development.

Posts: 447 | From: Somewhere son... | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

Ditto the above, Doug, good info.

Lol at the 'whipped' comment, Djehuti !

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
Is this the best you all can do? Is there nothing
significant about Tiye other than barroom boys'
holding up placards with numbers 1 - 10 on them?

Do you characterize Thutmosis as a handsome hunk
or do you peer into his life's accomplishments?

Not to take away from the popularity and fun
but is there any beef or is it just buns?

What? What's that? Al~Takruri is a stuffed shirt
as stiff as the starch? Sputter. Harumph. Sputter.

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I have to admit, at some point in the thread, I thought about the same. And in that Cleo thread.

Good call, man.

However, I didn't think it was too bad.

Sheesh what about when we're catching some of the Thanksgiving game and all the women can talk about is pointless stuff, such as who's "cute", or "look at how tight those pants are on them". Hmmmm?

Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
Any more relevant info on Tiye?

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Posts: 447 | From: Somewhere son... | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Tiye's father was a nobleman called Lord Yuya. The notion that Yuya was foreign comes from several reasons, but mainly because of the appearance of his mummy.



Because of the blonde color of the hair, as well as certain features, Yuya's ethnic identity has ranged from Hebrew, to Syrian, to Mitanni, with the his Hebrew identity going as far as being Joseph himself! I find that to be strange and funny considering that blonde hair is totally atypical of southwestern Asians, let alone Hebrews. The light colored hair, as well as the fact that Yuya was good at horse-training makes it more plausible that Yuya was of the Indo-European Mitanni. But then again, his blonde hair could have been caused by the embalming process and his features do not seem all that unusual for an Egyptian. And there appear to be no records that Yuya was foreign. Obviously if you look at Tiye's painted bust, she does not appear to be of any 'mixed' foreign ancestry.

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yeah I know thats weird, the bust of Tiye looks like a uh, full black woman, maybe Yuya had weak genes?

Oh and its been shown that Yuya's blonde hair is due to embalming, like it was with Rameses' uh, red hair .

Posts: 447 | From: Somewhere son... | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

^Of relevance.





(^Clickable pics)

^I look back at my comments in that thread and feel really stupid. I don't think there was one legitamite question in a post, aside from, maybe, the 'white' in africa Q.

quote:

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weak genes?

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Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
The notion that Yuya was foreign comes from several reasons, but mainly because of the appearance of his mummy.


Because of the blonde color of the hair, as well as certain features,
...
I find that to be strange and funny considering that blonde hair is totally atypical of southwestern Asians, let alone Hebrews. The light colored hair, as well as the fact that Yuya was good at horse-training makes it more plausible that Yuya was of the Indo-European Mitanni. But then again, his blonde hair could have been caused by the embalming process
...
if you look at Tiye's painted bust, she does not appear to be of any 'mixed' foreign ancestry.

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by alTakruri:

It's thought that among the Canaanites the Amorites had "blond" elements among them. But in seeing Tiye as Levantine those proponents are acknowledging that Syrians, or whoever, are no way Caucasian nor even remotely caucasoid.

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quote:

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Sometimes the perfectly legitimate child of a couple may lack resemblance to one or even both parents.

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Yuya's career path and certain of his facial features may indeed indicate partial descent from Eurasians
-- by which term I mean a cojoining of Europeans
and Asians as the term was used last century.

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The maryanu were a caste of charioteers all over the far northeast extension of Africa. Many suppose them to have had particular Mitanni origins. Even the ox drawn chariot of the Keshli queen in Huy's tomb has a charioteer and groom of a highly variant physical type.

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Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

He could easily look like this. This guys mummy will probably look like this.

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Originally posted by Doug M:
But there is no solid evidence for a REAL connection between Tiye and the Levant.


Now if we are going to talk about features, then look at the nose and lips on his mummy. They don't strike me as particularly "asiatic".

Also, I see no evidence of the charioteers of the Egyptian army being anything other than indigenous Egyptians. Many people have said this but nobody I know has put any proof on the table confirming it. If anything, this is another example of speculation gone wild in attempting to find some way, indeed any way to link Egypt with Asiatics or fair skinned people in the minds of the masses. Tiye and her family cannot just be plain old indigenous Egyptians who were black. That goes against the rules, there must be some other explanation, she couldn't have been the GREAT QUEEN without some foreign strain in her.... black folks can't do that on their own.....

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Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Doug M:

But there is no solid evidence for a REAL connection between Tiye and the Levant.

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Now if we are going to talk about features, then look at the nose and lips on his mummy. They don't strike me as particularly "asiatic".

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Also, I see no evidence of the charioteers of the Egyptian army being anything other than indigenous Egyptians. Many people have said this but nobody I know has put any proof on the table confirming it. If anything, this is another example of speculation gone wild in attempting to find some way, indeed any way to link Egypt with Asiatics or fair skinned people in the minds of the masses.

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quote:

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Tiye and her family cannot just be plain old indigenous Egyptians who were black. That goes against the rules, there must be some other explanation, she couldn't have been the GREAT QUEEN without some foreign strain in her.... black folks can't do that on their own.....

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Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Doug M:
Also, I see no evidence of the charioteers of the Egyptian army being anything other than indigenous Egyptians. Many people have said this but nobody I know has put any proof on the table confirming it. If anything, this is another example of speculation gone wild in attempting to find some way, indeed any way to link Egypt with Asiatics or fair skinned people in the minds of the masses.

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^

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Great detailed picture of Lord Yuya.

Posts: 53 | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
You can't see evidence you're not trying to see
nor want to really find in the first place. And no
one is claiming extra African anything for the
prime members of the greatest royal family
to ever rule anywhere anytime.

How can we know that foreigners of every stripe
entered ancient Egypt for employment opportunities
then deny seeing them when put to work exploiting
the selfsame skills they brought with them?

Look at the ultra-light skinned charioteers on Tut's
famous box/chest. Native Egyptian? Yes, to the extent
that later generation miscegenated nationalized foreigners
are native due to marrying in with the natives.

An appeal to racial solidarity will only masks the faces
of those who don it. It will never coverup the facts.

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug M:
Also, I see no evidence of the charioteers of the Egyptian army being anything other than indigenous Egyptians. Many people have said this but nobody I know has put any proof on the table confirming it. If anything, this is another example of speculation gone wild in attempting to find some way, indeed any way to link Egypt with Asiatics or fair skinned people in the minds of the masses.

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Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
It's not Tut's image I refered to, it's the
charioteers in the top register accompanying
him. The maryanu and their origin is a fact
that you don't seem to know about. I suggest
you research them and their role in all armies
of that time period in all societies starting
from Mitanni toward the southward and eastward,
you might learn something.

Anyway a 100% black population for Egypt is just
untenable. Too many records of foreign influx
including marriages of them to natives which of
course resulted in offspring.

Maryanu being a male chariot warrior caste would
certainly marry the females of whatever country
they hired themselves out to. Likewise, non-Indo
European speakers would join the caste and learn
the skills so why would anyone expect not to find
charioteers who had no foreign ancestry?

Lastly, this has nothing to do with the Bible and
even if it did it's be a poor excuse to reject
facts to fit a bible-phobic ideology.

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I am only asking for proof of Mittani ancestry or Maryanu affiliation for Yuya. That is totally different than saying no foreigners ever migrated to Egypt or intermarried with native Egyptians. That is not what I am saying. At the same token, however, given that the Maryanu may have been hired by the Egyptians at some point, that does not mean that any and all charioteers we find in Egypt can be said to be Maryanu. The point being where is the evidence of this Maryanu chariot force IN EGYPT? Are there any surviving tombs recording Maryanu soldiers by name as MARYANU who achieved high rank? Are there any inscriptions that identify any Maryanu by name in any Egyptian reliefs? I have seen Egyptian tombs with Egyptians making chariots and stabling the horses, but none with the above mentioned Maryanu. This is not a question of ethnic purity by any means. I am just asking for more evidence than what I have seen by anyone mentioning such folks, which usually boils down to a few lines in some book that lacks any identifiable artifacts or inscriptions that can be seen and observed independently.

Tomb of Menna:

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Originally posted by Yonis2:
The question you need to answer is why you consider the features of Yuya to be indigenious in the nile valley while not the majority of modern Egyptians? Answer this question.

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Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ LOL Is Yonis even serious about asking that question??!

I mean, does he not know as basic a fact of Egyptian history as the Arab Islamic invasion in the 7th century, let alone the Roman, Greek, Persian, invasions before then??!

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Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Doug M:
Because many modern Egyptians have more foreign ancestry, especially those in the extreme North of the country. That is a documented fact. All modern Egyptians do not have the same ancestral background. Some Egyptians openly and proudly admit that they are of Arab descent and others openly admit that they are mixed. However, there are also portions of the population who have similarities in features to the ancient populations as well. Therefore, if you feel that all modern Egyptians are equally descended from ancient Egyptian bloodlines, then fine. But they aren't.

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Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Yonis2:

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ LOL Is Yonis even serious about asking that question??!

I mean, does he not know as basic a fact of Egyptian history as the Arab Islamic invasion in the 7th century, let alone the Roman, Greek, Persian, invasions before then??!

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My question obviously went above your head.

Of course I know about all these migrations, invansions etc. What i however wanted to know from Doug m is how come he considers many modern egyptians (who the majority actually look more swarthy or more "African" than Ramses, Yuya and Seti) to be derived from these invasions/migrations, while he considers these late middle kingdom royalties to be of completly Indigenious Nile valley extraction?
That's Hypocrasy in my humble opinion.

Btw the arabs didn't mix that much with egyptians as same as they didn't with the levantines it was mostly a cultural, religious and language shift. It wasn't even real arabs but arabized Syrians that introduced Islam to Egypt.

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