posted
I was looking all over for a proper map showing the boundaries of ancient Kush and can't find one. There only seems to be one VERY simple "map" (which barly deserves the name!) showing Nubia, but all it lists are a handful of cities and it doesn't show where the actual boundaries of Kush are. I need a map with a line drawn around the "national borders" of the Kushite domain. A map with a listing of names on the Nile river is of absolutely NO use.
I've come across several threads about Kush/Napata etc, but they are all pretty much from the standpoint of assuming the reader(s) are already well-versed on the subject...and anyway those threads soon devolve into angry arguments about the finer points of Meroitic/Kerma/Napata/Nubian culture, which is irrelevant and again doens't do the newcomer any good anyway.
So anybody out there who has a map (or perhaps has the skill to improvise one) showing the actual boundaries of the Kushite emprie, with a detailed layout of it's cities and districts, PLEASE post a copy, would you? I'd also like to know what other kingdoms were in the Nubian area, and of course their boundaries as well.
And one more thing: can someone give me a simple explanation of what Ta-Seti was? Ta-Meri and that other Ta-- whatever one means "Land of the Gods?"
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by sportbilly: I was looking all over for a proper map showing the boundaries of ancient Kush and can't find one. There only seems to be one VERY simple "map" (which barly deserves the name!) showing Nubia, but all it lists are a handful of cities and it doesn't show where the actual boundaries of Kush are. I need a map with a line drawn around the "national borders" of the Kushite domain. A map with a listing of names on the Nile river is of absolutely NO use.
I've come across several threads about Kush/Napata etc, but they are all pretty much from the standpoint of assuming the reader(s) are already well-versed on the subject...and anyway those threads soon devolve into angry arguments about the finer points of Meroitic/Kerma/Napata/Nubian culture, which is irrelevant and again doens't do the newcomer any good anyway.
So anybody out there who has a map (or perhaps has the skill to improvise one) showing the actual boundaries of the Kushite emprie, with a detailed layout of it's cities and districts, PLEASE post a copy, would you? I'd also like to know what other kingdoms were in the Nubian area, and of course their boundaries as well.
And one more thing: can someone give me a simple explanation of what Ta-Seti was? Ta-Meri and that other Ta-- whatever one means "Land of the Gods?"
Evergreen Writes:
Is Kush the indigenous name of an African civilization? If so, which?
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
alTakuri-- I appreciate the suggestion, but you're a little late. I'm familar with using a search engine, and wouldn't waste anyone's time --especially not my own-- asking a question and then waiting for replies if I the answers were already at hand. The maps in the threads you linked to are the same maps I've already seen--just a bunch of names at certain points along the Nile river. Exactly what I said I didn't need. There are no lines delineating where "Kush" begins or ends, much less it's districts and boundaries. So I reiterate. Does anyone have a map of the "kingdon" of Kush, showing what it's boundaries are and those of it's neighboring Nubian kingdoms?
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
Ooops excuse the hell outta me as I shrink and silently tiptoe away but don't expect dash line borders for ancient world kingdoms and empires because the exact line was kind of free and loose even though there are maps out there with solid line boundaries and nice colors outlining each polity.
posted
A good question I have is what is the distinction between Kush and Kerma and Meroe?? As I understand it Kerma was the Kushite capital before the New Kingdom Egyptian conquest and Meroe after the New Kingdom. Perhaps this is where the confusion comes in.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Is Kush the indigenous name of an African civilization? If so, which?
.
. The term Kush is of Kushite origin . It was later used by the Hebrew and Classical writers to refer to the people living in the Kushite Empire that existed below Egypt.
Laszlo Torok, in The Kingdom of Kush:Handbook of the Napatan-Meroitic Civilization (Handbook of Oriental Studies, New York:Brill,1997) out lines the history of the term Kush in relation to the Kushites on pages 2-3. Torok points out that the name for the first ruler of the Twenty-Fifth Dynasty, Kashta, probably meant "the Kushite". He also noted that Kush, also appears as the ancestral kingdom of Piya in his Sandstone Stela and King Arqamani in the Second Century BC received the mortuary Horus name "The Kushite whose-coming-into-being -is divine".
In the Meroitic text the Meroites refer to themselves as Qes(h)( see: Torok, p.2-3: and J.Leclant:Recherches sur la toponymie meroitique, Tran. Centre de Recherche sur le Porche-Orient 4, (1975), p.105)in the Hamadab and Tanyidamani Stelas. The term Qes is also found in Egyptian records accoring to Leo Hansberry, African History Notebook , Volume 2 (1981) pp. 12-15.
The textual evidence make it obvious that the people of Meroe , and earlier rulers of Egypt (e.g., 25th Dynasty) from the same region, called themselves Kushites. The Egyptians called the Meroites Kushites because it was the name they called themselves. The writers of the Old Testement and Classical literature designated these people and their country, respectively as Kushites and Kush, because it is the name they gave themselves.
The Greco-Roman writers made it clear that there were two Kushite empires one in Asia and the other group in the area we call the Sudan,Nubia, and parts of southern Egypt. The Greek writer Homer alluded to the two Kushite empires, when he wrote "a race divided, whom the sloping rays; the rising and the setting sun surveys". The Greek traveler/historian Herodutus claimed that he derived this information from the Egyptians.
The Asian Proto-Saharans were also called Kushites or Ethiopians. The term Ethiopian comes from two Greek terms: Ethios 'burnt' and ops 'face',as a result Ethiopian means the 'burnt faces'. Herodutus and Homer, described these Ethiopians as "the most just of men;the favorites of the gods". The classical literature makes it clear that the region from Egypt to India was called by the name Ethiopia.
For example, the Elamites called themselves KHATAM, and their capital Susa:KUSSI. In addition, the Kassites, who occupied the central part of the Zagros mountains were called KASHSHU. The Kushana, formerly occupied Chinese Turkistan (Xinjiang) and the Gansu province of China.
The Kushites in Asia, as in Africa were known for their skill as bowmen :Steu , the name of the people of Ta-Seti.
The decipherer of the cuneiform writing of Mesopotamia, Rawlinson, said Puntites and Kushites were established in Asia. He found mention of Kushiya and Puntiya in the inscriptions of Darius. He also made it clear that the name Kush was also applied to southern Persia, India, Elam, Arabia, and Colchis (a part of southern Russia/Turkistan) in ancient times.
The Armenians made it clear that the ancients called Persia, Media,Elam Aria, and the entire area between the Tigris and Indus rivers Kush.Bardesones, writing in his Book of the Laws of Countries, in the 2nd Century said that the "Bactrians who we called Qushani (or Kushans)".The Armenians, called the earlier Parthian: Kushan and acknowledged their connection with them. Homer, Herodotus, and the Roman scholar Strabo called southern Persia AETHIOPIA. The Greeks and Romans called the country east of Kerma: Kusan.
From Iran the Kushites used the natural entry point into China along the path running from the Zagros to the Altai mountains, and the Dzunganian gate. There is archaeological evidence indicating that farming communities village sites were established along this path of similar origin, which date back to 3500 BC. The archaeological data indicate that this agricultural economy spread from west to east.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Ooops excuse the hell outta me as I shrink and silently tiptoe away but don't expect dash line borders for ancient world kingdoms and empires because the exact line was kind of free and loose even though there are maps out there with solid line boundaries and nice colors outlining each polity.
Please elaborate on this "kind of free and loose" political boundaries. I mean, I'm under the impression that ancient Egyptians for example, had military fotresses on the north and south, precisely to keep in check movement in and outside their territory.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Ooops excuse the hell outta me as I shrink and silently tiptoe away but don't expect dash line borders for ancient world kingdoms and empires because the exact line was kind of free and loose even though there are maps out there with solid line boundaries and nice colors outlining each polity.
Please elaborate on this kind of "free and loose" political boundaries. I mean, I'm under the impression that ancient Egyptians had military fotresses on the north and south, precisely to keep in check movement in and outside their territory.
I would imagine the boundaries would keep moving over time. Whenever there is a war, which occurs oftenly, the boundries will shift
Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007
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I would imagine the boundaries would keep moving over time. Whenever there is a war, which occurs oftenly, the boundries will shift
Of course; but they still had defined boundaries whatever that shift may be, for which chronological context has to be kept in mind.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: A good question I have is what is the distinction between Kush and Kerma and Meroe?? As I understand it Kerma was the Kushite capital before the New Kingdom Egyptian conquest and Meroe after the New Kingdom. Perhaps this is where the confusion comes in.
Kerma, Kush and Meroe are the three major kingdoms of ancient Sudan that are chronological developments or phases of the of the same civilization. Kerma is the most ancient, with many archaeologists mentioning Kerma, a town on the Nile as the location of many ancient artifacts and settlement sites going back to the predynastic period of Egypt. In a sense, Kerma seems to be the name for this Sudanese kingdom prior to being conquered by Egypt. Next comes Kush, which seems to be the name most often used to refer to the lands of Sudan controlled by Egypt, based around the city of Gebel Barkal and its relationship with Karnak. Meroe is the name that seems to refer to this region after the Kushites were removed from Egypt in the 25th dynasty and especially after their battles with the Assyrians, when they moved the capital to the south. This is the name used during and after the Greco-Roman period in Egypt.
Posts: 8890 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Okay, so if Doug is right, then Kush was not a kingdom, it was simply a holding of Egypt?
Well if "Kush" was just an egyptian colony, then what Nubian kingdoms was Egypt warring with during the New Kingdom and Third Intermediate? That's the era of history that I'm most interested in.
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
^NO. I said that Kush was the NAME used for the Kingdom after the Egyptian conquest. The Egyptians did not control Kush for all of this time and therefore it cannot be said that Kush was just a colony of Egypt, as the Kushites conquered Egypt in the 25th dynasty. What I am referring to here is the MODERN use of the name as the Egyptian name for the region and the name used by the locals may not be exactly the same and not cover the exact same time periods. It is only a general guideline on the various uses of the terms Kush, Kerma and Meroe in modern historical discussions. Therefore, Kerma is generally referred to as the first great central Sudanese kingdom up until the New Kingdom of Egypt, followed by Kush which is generally used to refer to central Sudan from the New Kingdom to the 26th dynasty of Egypt and then Meroe is used for the time after the 26th up untill about 100 or 200AD. These are not the ONLY kingdoms in Sudan, but the kingdoms of central Sudan that seemed to be the biggest Kingdoms of the time. It does not include the Khartoum mesolithic, which is more a tool industry and collection of settlement sites (including Kerma) or the sites of Northern Sudan and Upper Egypt and other historical sites.
Posts: 8890 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sportbilly: Okay, so if Doug is right, then Kush was not a kingdom, it was simply a holding of Egypt?
Well if "Kush" was just an egyptian colony, then what Nubian kingdoms was Egypt warring with during the New Kingdom and Third Intermediate? That's the era of history that I'm most interested in.
Kush wasn't just a holding of Egypt, Egyptologists have found records showing Kush raided Egypt as early as 1500B.C.
posted
Actually this reinforces what I just said about why Kerma was the name given to the Sudanese Kingdom before the Egyptian New Kingdom started. Kerma was the capital city and burial place as mentioned in the article about this battle. Therefore, some call the kingdom Kerma because of the importance of this city at that time. After the New Kingdom started in the 18th dynasty, some of these same people supported the resurgence of Upper Egypt and the expulsion of the Hyksos. And after Egypt was re unified, the Egyptians began to move south and take on the Sudanese, probably as a result of this earlier invasion and possibly because the invasion was partly instigated by the Hyksos. This effort resulted in the destruction of Kerma and the rise of what some call Kush, which was centered around Gebel Barkal.
The interesting thing to see is what word the Egyptians actually used for the Sudanese kingdom that invaded, as it probably wasn't Kush at all.
Posts: 8890 | Registered: May 2005
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The interesting thing to see is what word the Egyptians actually used for the Sudanese kingdom that invaded, as it probably wasn't Kush at all.
You're wrong they probably did use the term Kush, because the term Kush is of Kushite origin . It was later used by the Hebrew and Classical writers to refer to the people living in the Kushite Empire that existed below Egypt.
Laszlo Torok, in The Kingdom of Kush:Handbook of the Napatan-Meroitic Civilization (Handbook of Oriental Studies, New York:Brill,1997) out lines the history of the term Kush in relation to the Kushites on pages 2-3. Torok points out that the name for the first ruler of the Twenty-Fifth Dynasty, Kashta, probably meant "the Kushite". He also noted that Kush, also appears as the ancestral kingdom of Piya in his Sandstone Stela and King Arqamani in the Second Century BC received the mortuary Horus name "The Kushite whose-coming-into-being -is divine".
In the Meroitic text the Meroites refer to themselves as Qes(h)( see: Torok, p.2-3: and J.Leclant:Recherches sur la toponymie meroitique, Tran. Centre de Recherche sur le Porche-Orient 4, (1975), p.105)in the Hamadab and Tanyidamani Stelas. The term Qes is also found in Egyptian records accoring to Leo Hansberry, African History Notebook , Volume 2 (1981) pp. 12-15.
The textual evidence make it obvious that the people of Meroe , and earlier rulers of Egypt (e.g., 25th Dynasty) from the same region, called themselves Kushites. The Egyptians called the Meroites Kushites because it was the name they called themselves. The writers of the Old Testement and Classical literature designated these people and their country, respectively as Kushites and Kush, because it is the name they gave themselves.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Clyde, we are talking about the invasion that took place in the 17th dynasty, not the 25th, which everyone acknowledges as Kushite.
Posts: 8890 | Registered: May 2005
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I would imagine the boundaries would keep moving over time. Whenever there is a war, which occurs oftenly, the boundries will shift
Of course; but they still had defined boundaries whatever that shift may be, for which chronological context has to be kept in mind.
Gist: If one wants to get an idea of the political boundary of the Kushitic complex, finding the answer in a single map will not do - implying rigidity of Kushitic political boundary over time. Rather, reconstructing different maps of different time frames, reflecting shifts in political boundaries respective to those different time frames, would be the objective way to go. We've dealt with the Kushitic complex from the pre-Kerma times to the Kerma and Kush stages in the past discourse.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
I don't know of boundaries as on maps of today precisely outlining Kush. Ancient Egypt did establish border guards at various times in its history to keep ancient Libyans, ancient Levantines, and ancient Sudanis from drifting into the Two Lands. These border guards often enough were ethnically the same as the people they were barring entry.
If you have maps or knowledge of no gap precise perimeter boundaries of Egypt or Kush please share.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
... don't expect dash line borders for ancient world kingdoms and empires because the exact line was kind of free and loose even though there are maps out there with solid line boundaries and nice colors outlining each polity.
Please elaborate on this "kind of free and loose" political boundaries. I mean, I'm under the impression that ancient Egyptians for example, had military fotresses on the north and south, precisely to keep in check movement in and outside their territory.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Ancient Egypt did establish border guards at various times in its history to keep ancient Libyans, ancient Levantines, and ancient Sudanis from drifting into the Two Lands. These border guards often enough were ethnically the same as the people they were barring entry.
Elaborate on "often enough, ethnically the same as the people they were barring entry". What would these "ethnics" be?
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri~:
If you have maps or knowledge of no gap precise perimeter boundaries of Egypt or Kush please share.
I take it that you did not read what I posted just moments ago, prior to your post.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Haven't we already extensively covered these distinctions, including several of their associated cities and kingdoms?
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: A good question I have is what is the distinction between Kush and Kerma and Meroe?? As I understand it Kerma was the Kushite capital before the New Kingdom Egyptian conquest and Meroe after the New Kingdom. Perhaps this is where the confusion comes in.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
There was no THE Sudanese kingdom. There were many. Kush is but one and the one which established an empire perhaps even larger than Egypt's empire.
Kerma is probably the oldest continuingly occupied city site of ancient Sudan.
And as posted here too many times, the Egyptians did not invent the word Kush/Kesh/Qevs.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Actually this reinforces what I just said about why Kerma was the name given to the Sudanese Kingdom before the Egyptian New Kingdom started. Kerma was the capital city and burial place as mentioned in the article about this battle. Therefore, some call the kingdom Kerma because of the importance of this city at that time. After the New Kingdom started in the 18th dynasty, some of these same people supported the resurgence of Upper Egypt and the expulsion of the Hyksos. And after Egypt was re unified, the Egyptians began to move south and take on the Sudanese, probably as a result of this earlier invasion and possibly because the invasion was partly instigated by the Hyksos. This effort resulted in the destruction of Kerma and the rise of what some call Kush, which was centered around Gebel Barkal.
The interesting thing to see is what word the Egyptians actually used for the Sudanese kingdom that invaded, as it probably wasn't Kush at all.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
If you have knowledge or any maps of complete perimeters for any time period please share.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
Ancient Egypt did establish border guards at various times in its history to keep ancient Libyans, ancient Levantines, and ancient Sudanis from drifting into the Two Lands. These border guards often enough were ethnically the same as the people they were barring entry.
Elaborate on "often enough, ethnically the same as the people they were barring entry". What would these "ethnics" be?
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri~:
If you have maps or knowledge of no gap precise perimeter boundaries of Egypt or Kush please share.
I take it that you did not read what I posted just moments ago, prior to your post.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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If you have knowledge or any maps of complete perimeters for any time period please share.
If you can tell me why I need to produce one!
However, if you feel that political boundaries didn't exist, you'll need to back up that assertion. Your call.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Takuri wasn't the one who wanted the map showing precise (or as close to precise) boundaries of Kerma/Kush/Meroe as possible, I did. I started the thread.
Al was asking for said maps repeatedly because some of the folks here started gettting (saldy, predictably) WAY off topic. So Al was simply reminding everyone that this thread isn't about which came first, the Kerma or the egg, it's about somebody hopefully helping me to get some kind of bearing on the boundaries of Kush/Kerma/Meroe during the New Kingdom/Third-Intermediate and a little insight into who else was in their neighborhood at the time.
And no Mystery, you don't have to "produce" anything. Nobdody asked you to, so calm your nerves. Don't get defensive or combative. If you think this has been covered (you're the only one, so that should tell you something right there) then please feel free to read other threads. I didn't start this thread for your edification, I did it for my own. But don't take it upon yourself to be argumentative, dismissive of this thread or derisive about anyone here simply because the subject doesn't interest you. And I never asked for a "permanent" map of Kush's boundaries --I'm well aware that it's borders were in flux-- I simply asked for "A" map of it's domains.
BTW, thanks for the pics of the fortifications. I'm sure drawings of fortresses will teach me a lot more about where Kush's boundaries were than any dumb old map.
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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Takuri wasn't the one who wanted the map showing precise (or as close to precise) boundaries of Kerma/Kush/Meroe as possible, I did. I started the thread.
Okay?
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
Al was asking so emphatically, because some of the folks started gettting (saldy, predictably) WAY off topic. So he was simply reminding everyone that this thread isn't about which came first, the Kerma or the egg. It's about somebody helping me to get some kind of bearing on the boundaries of Kush/Kerma/Meroe and a little insight into who else was in the neighborhood at the time.
If he did what you said he did, that's fine; however, I'm only concerned with those "questions" he asked of me.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
A map would be nice, since it's what I'm looking for.
As I noted earlier, reconstructing variant maps respective to various timeframes, by way of extrapolation if possible from what we know from certain evidence, would be the way to go. You'd be hard-pressed to find maps that accurately reflect actual historic political borders of either ancient Egyptian or Kushitic complexes, because historians can only extrapolate where these borders lay, based on weight of evidence - that is, short of actual maps drawn by these Nile Valley ancients themselves, which is scarce - pending elaboration to the contrary.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
And no Mystery, you don't have to "produce" anything. Nobdody asked you to, so calm your nerves.
You need to 'activate' your nerves - connected to your brains, that is. al Takruri did ask me to reproduce maps that I may be aware of, and so, I requested explanation from him, the need for me to do that. I don't think you're foolish enough to deny that, or are you?
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
So don't get defensive or combative.
Good but misplaced advice; the one being combative and defensive at the moment, is yourself. Practice what you preach.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
If you think this has been covered (you're the only one, so that should tell you something right there) then please feel free to read other threads.
You are not making any sense. What is "this" that I said "has been covered"? and if I am telling you that "this" has been "covered here", then this advice would go to the person(s) who haven't been part or gone through those discussions of "this" thing that you speak of - use your head.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
I didn't start this thread for your edification, I did it for my own.
Your point?
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
But don't take it upon yourself to be argumentative, dismissive of this thread or derisive about anyone here simply because the subject doesn't interest you.
Do you have any evidence of any of this herein, or is it just a figment of your wild imaginations? I'm inclined to go with the latter.
And yes, I reserve the right to argue, disagree and participate in any discussion I so choose, with or without your approval - got that? I hope so.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
And I never asked for a "permanent" map of Kush's boundaries --I'm well aware that it's borders were in flux-- I simply asked for A map of it's domains.
Well, your topic starter talks of a need for "a" map, not map*s*, nor does the topic-starter indicate any notion of a chronological sense for such "a" map. You cannot get an accurate portrayal of Kushitic "political boundaries", as you referred to it, with "a" map.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
BTW, thanks for the pics of the fortifications. I'm sure drawings of fortresses will teach me a lot more about Kush's boundaries than any map.
You're welcome, though you've demonstrated that the point of posting it missed you.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Your attempts at being a smartass are almost as funny as your "analyses" of ancient egypt. I've read many of your posts and I can count on two hands the number of intelligent things you've ever said in this forum. However I only need one hand to count the total number of brain cells you've got. I'll try to answer your questions, but I imagine they will simply go saliing through that tube you call your brain. Here goes...
Mystery said: al Takruri did ask me to reproduce maps that I may be aware of, and so, I requested explanation from him, the need for me to do that. I don't think you're foolish enough to deny that, or are you?
Al didn't start the thread, I did. Remember? So if you want to say he gave you a "request" that's fine--any excuse for the hopeless. But don't you also HAVE to answer Clyde and Doug M and Markellion's posts too, using your line of reasoning? Or do you just save your pearls of ignorance for a select few? Just a thought. Ever have one of those BTW?
Mystery also wrote: And yes, I reserve the right to argue, disagree and participate in any discussion I so choose, with or without your approval - got that? I hope so.
So you reserve the right to be a belligerent horse's ass, anywhere anytime--which you excel at. You reserve the right to annoy and distract at will--which you also excel at. You reserve the right to clutter any thread you choose with your bullshit ravings. Wow, Mystery! You hit the jackass trifecta!
You know, life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid.
Also considering that I haven't the ability to delete your chlidish rantings, you bragging that you don't need my "approval" to clog this thread with your assinine chatter is a pointless observation--another thing you excel at. And no, I don't "get it." Unless by that you mean; do I get that you're the bravest chump in the world talking tough behind a keyboard, in your mother's basement. If that's what you're asking, then yes, I do get it.
Mystery also wrote: Well, your topic starter talks of a need for "a" map, not map*s*, nor does the topic-starter indicate any notion of a chronological sense for such "a" map. You cannot get an accurate portrayal of Kushitic "political boundaries", as you referred to it, with "a" map.
The ony thing I can't get is an intelligent repsonse from you. If someone asks for something and you need more details you simply ask. If you're too dumb to ask for clarification, then I can't help you there. I do floors, I do windows, but I don't do dumb.
Look Mystery, you seem like a reasonable enough little punk. That being the case, go get some Midol before you enter this thread again--you became boring three posts ago and utterly stupid way before that. Or if you can't afford Midol at least put down that bottle of extra-strength stupid pills you've been chomping on because you simply are not ready to start a flame war with me. You'd have a better chance of winning a footrace with an avalanche. Now, have you got THAT? Nuff said.
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by sportbilly: Mystery Solver--
Your attempts at being a smartass are almost as funny as your "analyses" of ancient egypt.
and you're not being successful in your attempts at obscuring the fact that you're really a dumbass. To demonstrate this, let me ask you this:
What is this "analyses of ancient egypt", as it pertains to this topic, that you're referring to, which is supposed to be funny; "funny" in what way?
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
I've read many of your posts and I can count on two hands the number of intelligent things you've ever said in this forum.
What intelligent claim have you ever made on this board? Begin counting. I can assure though, your bitchings in jibberish like a hopeless house wife, doesn't constitute intelligent thinking.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
However I only need one hand to count the total number of brain cells you've got.
Good of you to acknowledge that, because in your case one need not even bother to count: you have no brain cells to speak of.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
I'll try to answer your questions, but I imagine they will simply go saliing through that tube you call your brain.
Well, try me, since it's already been confirmed that nobody's at home in that empty canister you call your head.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
Here goes...
Mystery said: al Takruri did ask me to reproduce maps that I may be aware of, and so, I requested explanation from him, the need for me to do that. I don't think you're foolish enough to deny that, or are you?
Al didn't start the thread, I did. Remember?
Apparently, you *forgot* how I followed up with that brain-dead noise the first time you spouted it out. Should be more concerned about your own capacity for memory, i.e. its lack thereof, before you concern yourself with anybody else's - just an advice.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
So if you want to say he gave you a "request" that's fine--any excuse for the hopeless.
Not a matter of what "I want so say"; it is a matter of fact. Should I excuse your idiocy for not recognizing this fact? Not my call; I think I'll just wait and observe you make bigger ass out of yourself, as you continue to pretend to be arguing with me about "something", when in fact it is nothing more than displaying your low-intellect inferiority complex with a "fake" case. You feel that setting up a fake case, and acting like you're al Takruri's wife and spokesperson, will make something of worth out of you. You're fooling yourself, gal.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
ut don't you also HAVE to answer Clyde and Doug M and Markellion's posts too, using your line of reasoning?
You're too idiotic to grasp my or anyone else's "line of reasoning". Whom else, besides this profoundly idiotic sportbilly goat, hadn't taken note of al Takrur's request addressed to me, to which I demanded clarification on the premise behind it before I remotely began to address it?
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
Or do you just save your pearls of ignorance for a select few?
Not me; However, you do have pearls of ignorance that has no parallel.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
Just a thought. Ever have one of those BTW?
Yes, plenty; you want to buy *one*? It'll make a good "filler" for that empty vessel of yours. I kid you not.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
Mystery also wrote: And yes, I reserve the right to argue, disagree and participate in any discussion I so choose, with or without your approval - got that? I hope so.
So you reserve the right to be a belligerent horse's ass, anywhere anytime--which you excel at.
Yeap, just as you reserve the right to continue making a belligerent lowbrow whore out of yourself, anywhere at anytime - which you excel at.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
You reserve the right to annoy and distract at will--which you also excel at.
You bet, just as you reserve the right to continue being dense beyond belief - which you also excel at.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
You reserve the right to clutter any thread you choose with your bullshit ravings.
...which if you were asked to identify at any rate - as it pertains to this topic, prior to your profuse dissipations of brain-dead emotional hot air from your arse, you'd get a heart attack in lieu of a mental breakdown, since you obviously don't have the brains to warrant mental loose ends.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
Wow, Mystery! You hit the jackass trifecta!
I'm glad to be of service, in hitting *you* where it counts, jackass trifecta.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
You know, life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid.
...especially when there is no cure for it; yes, I feel for you - your hard life is coming across quite blatantly.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
Also considering that I haven't the abilityto delete your chlidish rantings, you bragging that you don't need my "approval" to clog this thread with your assinine chatter is a pointless observation--another thing you excel at.
Now of course, you are too obtuse to note in that jumble heap of a rant above, that my "observation" cannot be "pointless", if as you admit, you have "no ability" to do squat about it. Your stupidity knows no bounds, does it little black sambo?
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
And no, I don't "get it."
Of course; you're too screwed up to "get it". Perhaps you understand it better in sportbilly *tongue*:
Unless by that you mean; do I get that you're the bravest chump in the world talking tough behind a keyboard, in your mother's basement.
It takes one to know one [projecting], doesn't it, little black sambo? Perhaps an invitation to your mother's basement [where you're obviously typing from, if your projection is any indicator] would be the way to go, where I can convince with 'physical demonstration'- Just a thought.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
If that's what you're asking, then yes, I do get it.
Not even close, but what else is new, batty boy?
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
Mystery also wrote: Well, your topic starter talks of a need for "a" map, not map*s*, nor does the topic-starter indicate any notion of a chronological sense for such "a" map. You cannot get an accurate portrayal of Kushitic "political boundaries", as you referred to it, with "a" map.
The ony thing I can't get is an intelligent repsonse from you.
I presume that you're quite convinced, that this constitutes an "intelligent" comeback. Lol - you jerk yourself around too much.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
If someone asks for something and you need more details you simply ask.
Wow, and you figured this out all by yourself? Does this now mean that you'll be able to recognize one when see one? I am very, and I mean very, skeptical about that prospect.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
If you're too dumb to ask for clarification, then I can't help you there.
Of course you can't, when you are too dumb to recognize a clarification for starters...even if it smacked you silly.
quote:Originally posted by originally:
I do floors, I do windows, but I don't do dumb.
bummer! I thought you did do dumb; afterall, aren't you gay? Alright - enough of the that; go about your cleaning of the toilet, doing the floors, cleaning out the bedpans, windows and your other menial tasks for the day; a forum, or any other avenue for intelligent discourse, is not the place you need to be at.
Ps - Don't let your boss see those poop-stains on the toilet seat. You might just fired, and lose any last vestige of self-worth that you might be clinging onto.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
Look Mystery, you seem like a reasonable enough little punk.
Of course; I know I am quite reasonable, just as I know you are unreasonable, little wuss.
Reasoning can only take one so far - I mean, one can reason with the reasonable, which you acknowledge that I am; on the other hand, it goes without saying, one cannot reason with the unreasonable, which I acknowledge that you are.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
That being the case, go get some Midol before you enter this thread again--you became boring three posts ago and utterly stupid way before that.
Hmmm, what would entail that "three posts ago", and why is it "boring"? If you can't answer this, of which I'm quite confident, shouldn't it be you who needs that Midol much more than anybody else?
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
Or if you can't afford Midol at least put down that bottle of extra-strength stupid pills you've been chomping on because you simply are not ready to start a flame war with me.
Hate to burst your bubble, but you clearly got me there; have no idea what that is. How about you go get me those extra-strength stupid pills that you speak of, since you've obviously heard of them before and know where to get them. When you get back, I'll read the label of the bottle for you [makes sense, since you are illiterate], because I have a hunch that you've been abusing dosage, i.e. much, much more than the recommended dosage.
quote:Originally posted by sportbilly:
You'd have a better chance of winning a footrace with an avalanche. Now, have you got THAT? Nuff said.
Got "your idiocy". Yes, I understood "that" about you ever since you first popped up on this board, and no less so, when you demonstrated moments ago that couldn't even properly read your own topic-starter.
So pal, where are those "answers" to my posts that you promised to get me at the start of your fuming? You've obviously spent a great deal of effort and energy in writing this hogwash; so now, you ought to try and do the same for the undelivered "answers" you promised. There may be some hope, however slight. Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
^Speaking of answers, "sportsbilly", can you tell me in what ways the following, my communications with al Takruri, supports any of your superfluous fuming, other than a reflection of your going on about your numb-minded outpourings born out of an inferiority complex of low-intellect, and hence, the need to remedy it via immaterial bitchings at a far more astute poster than you are?
1)
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
Ooops excuse the hell outta me as I shrink and silently tiptoe away but don't expect dash line borders for ancient world kingdoms and empires because the exact line was kind of free and loose even though there are maps out there with solid line boundaries and nice colors outlining each polity.
Please elaborate on this "kind of free and loose" political boundaries. I mean, I'm under the impression that ancient Egyptians for example, had military fotresses on the north and south, precisely to keep in check movement in and outside their territory.
2)
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
If you have knowledge or any maps of complete perimeters for any time period please share.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
Ancient Egypt did establish border guards at various times in its history to keep ancient Libyans, ancient Levantines, and ancient Sudanis from drifting into the Two Lands. These border guards often enough were ethnically the same as the people they were barring entry.
Elaborate on "often enough, ethnically the same as the people they were barring entry". What would these "ethnics" be?
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri~:
If you have maps or knowledge of no gap precise perimeter boundaries of Egypt or Kush please share.
I take it that you did not read what I posted just moments ago, prior to your post.
What part of this exchange don't you understand; how does it support any of your farfetched nutty hokum, before your pms hit you?
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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If you have knowledge or any maps of complete perimeters for any time period please share.
If you can tell me why I need to produce one!
However, if you feel that political boundaries didn't exist, you'll need to back up that assertion. Your call.
I mean, I know you like being al Takruri's wife and all, but aren't you insulting the guy's intelligence, when you act like his unpaid nutty spokesperson? You are essentially saying, the guy doesn't have the brain power to respond to my posts, and that he needs the brain-dead, like yourself, to help out.
What have you yourself contributed to a topic you started? I can show you my *insightful* contributions, since you're too illiterate to spot them, if you like, but I care to see your *enlightening* posts herein, because as of yet, I haven't come across any, other than your well documented pms-induced baby-crying.
Ps - I suggest you seek some gripe-retardation pills, and buy yourself common sense which you lack, before you take on us human beings.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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The main point is that Kush was much larger than scholars previously thought.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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