posted
Well since you are adept and adroit at avoiding what was WRONG with what you said I will keep it simple.
The idea that the Egyptians felt that:
quote:Originally posted by rasol:
Jet Black Tut.
Space is Black.
Aliens come from space.
Therefore Tut is a space alien
His Black skin symbolises this.
Is WRONG and a corny attempt to sound clever and make an analogy about the depth and complexity of ancient Egyptian thought that I explained.
All you are doing is talking a lot and saying nothing because you HAVE NOTHING to say other than: "I disagree". That is fine, but don't act as if all this extra WORDAGE has any POWER to defend WHY you disagree. It ultimately reveals how LAZY you are in NOT providing ANY direct quote, reference or imagery from Egypt to SUPPORT your point of view. The only thing you use like a crutch is the "eurocentric" argument about KMT meaning black soil. It doesn't and what I said had NOTHING to do with the name the Egyptians created for their country. So the END of YOUR argument was when you said you disagreed and you should have left it there, because NOTHING you have provided has amounted to anything more than wasting time saying what could be said in two words: "I disagree".
So when you are ready to do more than act Denzel Washington and coach people on the FORMS of debate, let me know. This isn't about TALKING, it is about FACTS and EVIDENCE. The FACTS and EVIDENCE have been provided by myself and you have provided nothing but a single sentence from Wally's website. Man that still is funny.
When you feel like really reading up on and learning Egyptian cosmology and debating it, get at me.
Other wise, give this debate a rest, because it is corny.
And here is a reference to Osiris as son of Geb and the lord of the earth as the force of creation that springs from it as fertility and the life force the permeates the earth and the seed of life itself:
quote: Thou art the bringer in of the remotest boundaries, and art stable of heart, and thy two feet are lifted up; thou art the heir of Geb and of the sovereignty of the Two Lands, and he (i.e., Geb) hath seen thy splendid qualities, and hath commanded thee to guide the lands (i.e., the world) by thy hand so long as times [and seasons] endure.
Thou hast made this earth with thy hand, the waters thereof, the winds thereof, the trees and herbs thereof, the cattle thereof of every kind, the birds thereof of every kind, the fish thereof of every kind, the creeping things thereof, and the four-footed beasts thereof. The land of the desert belongeth by right to the son of Nut, and the Two Lands have contentment in making him to rise upon the throne of his father like Ra.
Thou rollest up into the horizon, thou settest the light above the darkness, thou illuminest [the Two Lands] with the light from thy two plumes, thou floodest the Two Lands like the Disk at the beginning of the dawn. Thy White Crown pierceth the height of heaven saluting the stars, thou art the guide of every god. Thou art perfect in command and word. Thou art the favoured one of the Great Company of the Gods, and thou art the beloved one of the Little Company of the Gods.
Thy sister [Isis] acted as a protectress to thee. She drove [thy] enemies away, she averted seasons [of calamity from thee], she recited the word (or, formula) with the magical power of her mouth, [being] skilled of tongue and never halting for a word, being perfect in command and word. Isis the magician avenged her brother. She went about seeking for him untiringly.
Osiris as the divine force of will that created the universe symbolized by Ra, representing the latent force of creation within the physical realm which permeates all things and the earth itself:
quote: "Homage to thee, O Osiris, the lord of eternity, the king of the gods, thou who hast many names, whose forms of coming into being are holy, whose attributes are hidden in the temples, whose Double is most august (or venerated). Thou art the Chief of Tettu (or Busiris), the Great One who dwelleth 2. in Sekhem (Letopolis), the lord to whom praises are offered in the nome of Athi, the Chief of the divine food in Annu (On, or Heliopolis), and the lord who is commemorated in the {Hall (or City) of} two-fold Right and Truth. Thou art the Hidden Soul, the lord of Qereret (Elephantine), the holy one in the city of the White Wall (Memphis), the Soul of Ra, and thou art of his own body. Offerings and oblations are made to thy satisfaction in 3. Sutenhenen (Herakleopolis), praise in abundance is bestowed upon thee in Nart, and they Soul hath been exalted as lord of the Great House in Khemennu (Hermopolis). Thou art he who is greatly feared in Shas-hetep, the lord of eternity, the Chief of Abtu (Abydos), thy seat extendeth into the land of holiness (Underworld), and thy name is firmly established in the mouth of mankind. 4. Thou art the substance of {which were made} the two lands (i.e., Egypt), thou art Tem, the divine food of the doubles, thou art the chief of the company of the gods, thou art the operative and beneficent Spirit among the spirits, thou drawest thy waters from the abyss of heaven, thou bringeth along the north wind at eventide and air for thy nostrils to the satisfaction of thy heart. 5. Thy heart germinateth, thou producest the light for divine food, the height of heaven and the starry gods obey thee, thou openest the great pylons {of heaven}, and thou art he unto whom praises are sung in the southern heaven, and to whom adorations are performed in the northern heaven. The stars which never set 6. are under the seat of thy face, and the stars which never rest are thy habitations; and unto thee offerings are made according to the decree of the god Geb.
posted
Egyptian cosmology being deep and complex and based on a language with many complexities of meaning that are not easily understood is a problem. However, some things are straight forward. Black was the name of the country and it is no doubt due to the fact that the inhabitants of the country viewed themselves as black. At the same token however, black as a color had many other symbolic uses within Egyptian thought outside the name of the country, which also REINFORCES the identity and culture of Egypt as being African.
Just as the Nile Flows from the South, black people have been coming from the south since the beginning of time and are the first people of ancient Egypt. There was no other origin for the aboriginal populations of Nile Valley in Egypt. Therefore, just as they followed the Nile and depended on it for sustenance, so too did they record this in their mythology.
NG, of course, is not making any sense in trying to avoid all of this by claiming the first "black" kings in Egypt came during the 25th dynasty.
As for the symbolism of the of the primeval mound of the earth and the seed representing the divine force of will as symbolized by Ra, there are many Egyptian texts that can be referenced. The concept of the creative will as symbolized by the earth, the semen (seed) and sun are seen in over and over in Egyptian cosmology. Min, Geb and Osiris are symbolic of the creative force of the earth which propagates life through the seed/semen. The sun is symbolic of the radiant energies of creation that flows from the creator. The primeval mound of creation becomes the latent material of the universe from which all things are created. These concepts are seen throughout Egyptian cosmological history in many forms and combinations and it is by understanding these combinations of symbols that you can understand their meaning. However, the nature of Eurocentric misunderstandings and discourse requires that many references to these works will often belittle or contradict the facts of the texts themselves. This isn't to be unexpected. One has to read the originals for oneself and look at the original scenes from the tombs and temples to understand their meaning.
posted
National Geography is full of ****. I glimpsed at the lousy "black eygpt" edition they put out, knowing that it would piss me off, and sure enough, it did. Whoever put that load of crap out was obviously trying to say that ancient egypt was originally white or whatever before the so called Nubians invaded them. I am so sick of these lies. Of course, the impressionable public will foolishly deem it as the truth and therefore, the lies continues. Well, all I can say, is thank goodness for the internet and this site. I just had to vent for a minute,so please excuse my tone.
Posts: 9 | From: alexander | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Thanks. I just checked out the dumb questions. I am currently reading the blog and I am happy with what I'm reading so far. People on the NG blog are opposing the edition and the fact that a white race and black could live right next to eachother. U guys should read it. I'm going to add something.
Posts: 9 | From: alexander | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
^ It's not the fact that white people and black people could live right next to each other so much as the fact that 'Nubians' are black but the Egyptians who are also native to *Africa* only several miles away are not! By the way, which part of the blog do they discuss this? Can you give me a link?
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ LMAO Yup, that blog and all its questioning of the latest Tut reconstruction must be responsible for this ridiculous excuse for a Februrary (Black History month??) issue!
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
That's what I meant Djehuti. I wasn't clear I suppose. I read comments some people made after the magazine came out, and that's what I was referring to. I don't know why I get into these AE matters so much. I guess I'm just tired of the lies from the writings and tv. Maybe I was an AE in a past life. All I can say is that as I get older, I start to toss and carefully analyze what the so called white or non-white scientists and historians put out there as the truth. You gotta read between the lines all the time. Common sense tells one what's true sometimes.
Posts: 9 | From: alexander | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
^ Sometimes all one can do is just simple research on a subject and the more you verify, the more you know the truth.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Some more on the Egyptian dieties reflecting the life force of creation and continuity in the universe:
quote: The Speos Artemidos Inscription of Hatshepsut
The following translation is adapted from that made available in the following article:
James P. Allen, "The Speos Artemidos Inscription of Hatshepsut", Bulletin of the Egyptological Seminar 16 (2002), pp.1-17, pls.1+2.
[Spellings have been anglicised, some elements of Egyptian terminology have been altered slightly; otherwise, the translation represents James Allen's published work].
(1) [The living one, Horus Powerful of Life-Force; Two Ladies Fresh of] Years; Gold Falcon Divine of [Appearan]ce; Young God, Lord of the [Two] Land[s, King of Upper and Lower Egypt MAATKARE; Son] of Re, [Lord of] Appearance [HATSHEPSUT UNITED WITH AMUN, given life like the Sun forever - (2) she whose titulary has been set and remains like the sky, setting up the annals of her diligence on the cliff of Her of the Mountain Top toward the (3) rising of the lord of [rays] over the desert edge, when his flames are on the back of the two deserts.
The favourite place(s) [of] all the gods have had their braziers spread and (4) their chapels broadened, each (god) at the sanctuary he has desired, his life-force content with his thrones, (5) for I have stipulated the fulfillment of their enjoyment, their colonnades having been [ ... ]ed, the hidden place of the house's interior having been made defensive for it with respect to "bringing away the foot", (6) every (god) fashioned in his body of electrum of Upper Nubia, their festivals stable in (their) totality, (7) the register of festival-offerings (in effect) with respect to to its timing in adherence to the system of my making, the rites of its arrangement haveing been made firm, which (rites) he (the Sun) made in the past (8) for the first (gods).
My divine mind is looking out for posterity, the king's heart has thought of eternal continuity, because of the utterance of him who parts the ished-tree, Amun, (9) lord of millions, and I have magnified the Order he has desired. For it is known to me that he lives on it: it is my bread, and it is of its dew that I drink. I was (10) in one body with him, and he has brought me up to make the awe of him powerful in this land. I am one who Atum-Khepri, who made what is- made (11) know(ledgable], one whom the Sun has fated as established for him.
The shores are united under my supervision, the Black Land and the Red Land under terror of me, (12) my impressiveness making foreign lands bow down. For the uraeus on my front pacifies for it all lands < ... >. (13) Rashaut and Iuu cannot be concealed from my incarnation. Punt has [swollen] forth for me on <all its> field, (14) its trees bearing fresh myrrh. The roads that were blocked in both lanes are (now) trodden. (15) My troops, which were unequipped, have finery since my appearance as king.
The temple of the mistress of Qusae, which had <completely> (16) fallen into dissolution - the earth having swallowed its noble sanctuary, children dancing on its roof<s>, (17) no tutelary goddess causing fear, the lowly reckoning defencelessness in (her) absence, nor (18) her days of appearance having <be>en experienced - I hallowed it, built anew, fashioning its Leading Serpent of gold < ... > (19) in order to defend its town in the processional bark.
Great Pakhet, who roams the wadis, resident in the eastern desert, [was] s[eeking] (20) the rainstorm's paths, since there was no relevant libation-service that fetched water (for her). I have made her enclosure as [what this goddess] intende[d] (21) for her Ennead, the doorleaves of acacia inlaid with bronze, in [or]der that [they] might be [in it, her register of festival-offerings] (22) (in effect) with respect to (its) timing, the lay-priests learning of its time.
Hur and Hermopolis were im[poverish]ed of provisions. (23) I have hallowed the sacred precincts of their towns, established as a frequented place. Those who were in [ ... ] the storehouse (24) are (now) requisitioner(s) from it.
Since great Thoth, who came from the Sun, has been reveal[ing (this) to] me, I [have consecrated to] him an altar in (25) silver and gold and chests of cloth, every vessel set in its (proper) place. For the one authorised to see, the leader of (26) Atum's two Enneads, did not know how to do it, there being no knowledge in his house; the god's-fathers were empty-headed, [and there was no son who] learned from <his> father. (27) My incarnation's vision gives clarity of vision to those who shoulder the god. I have constructed his great temple of white stone of Tur[a], its gateways (28) of alabaster of Hatnub, the doorleaves of bronze of Asia, the reliefs on them in electrum, holy with (the image of) him of high plumes. I have [magni]fied (29) the incarnation of this god with a double festival of Nehebkau and the festival of Thoth, which I set for him anew (30) when they were (only) in the mouth and not on his calendar since the time when the conduct of the festival was single. I have multiplied the god's offering for him more (31) than what was before, by my acting for the Ogdoad - for Khnum in his forms and for Heqet, Renenet, (32) and Meshkenet, united to build my body; Nehmetawy, Nehbetka, She of Whom it is Said (33) that the Sky and Earth are Hers, and He in the Mummy Wrappings - in Hebenu.
The relevant towns are in a festival of witnessing to me with (the words) "Unknown! Unknown!" The enclosure (34) walls are in foundation , for I have established them and made them festive, giving the houses to [their] owner(s). Every [god] says to himself: "One who will achieve eternal continuity has come, (35) whom Amun has caused to appear as king of eternity on Horus' throne".
So listen, all you elite and multitude of commoners: I have done this by the plan of my mind. (36) I do not sleep forgetting, (but) have made form what was ruined. For I have raised up what was dismembered beginning (37) from the time when the Asiatics were in the midst of the Delta, (in) Avaris, with vagrants in their midst, (38) toppling what had been made. They ruled without the Sun, and he did not act by god's decree down to my (own) uraeus-incarnation. (Now) I am set (39) on the Sun's thrones, having been foretold from ages of years as one born to take possession. I am come as Horus, the sole (40) uraeus spitting fire at my enemies. I have banished the gods' abomination, the earth removing their footprints.
This is the system of the father (41) of [my] fathers, the Sun, who (now) comes at his dates. Damage will not happen (again), for Amun has decreed that my decree remain like the mountains. When the sun-disk shines, (42) it will spread rays over the titulary of my incarnation, and my falcon will be high on the top of the serekh for the course of eternity.
posted
AGAIN ALL THESE CON-ARTIST DJEHUTI NICKS. IT'S JUST SICKENING! HIM ANSWERING HIS OWN QUESTIONS WITH ANOTHER NICK. ASKING FOR SCANS WHICH ARE DUTIFULLY PROVIDED BY THIS 'FEMALE.' DOES HE GET OFF SEXUALLY ON DECEIVING PEOPLE?
The Black Madonna's are remnants of the Reversed Apartheid Era (1500-789) when Black's and Coloureds ruled Europe, calling themselves Blue Blooded. They might have been the last original Black and Coloured Europeans from before the White's invaded 5000 years ago. They maintained power through intermarriage. As they claimed Black superiority, they had no use for a White god. There are images which show White's in adoration for a Black Madonna, which to me looks quite sensational. The Vierge Noir de Puys was destroyed around the French Revolution, so what we see today is a copy. The French Revolution was anti-church, but also anti-Black supremacy. Some Renaissance paintings of Maria and Jesus show uneven cracking: the eyes and the mouth remain well preserved, while the skin (over paint, whitened?) shows great weathering. The beheading of the King and the Queen of France was a powerful message that these Nobles and Kings were not invincible.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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White Nord
A banned big lipped primate
Member # 14093
It seems as though one of you Afronuts have already posted on the first comment on the new thread on that forum! For God's sake stop trying to steal other people's culture and spreading your lies to these sites dedicated to nonbias Science! Posts: 219 | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
I cant believe Rasol tried to sound clever with the space alien crap.
Its very clear that black, re birth, fertiligy, and AE being black were very closely related. Its nothing far fetched. They even put the visual meaning on the tombs.
Nice try.
quote: Egyptian cosmology being deep and complex and based on a language with many complexities of meaning that are not easily understood is a problem. However, some things are straight forward. Black was the name of the country and it is no doubt due to the fact that the inhabitants of the country viewed themselves as black. At the same token however, black as a color had many other symbolic uses within Egyptian thought outside the name of the country, which also REINFORCES the identity and culture of Egypt as being African.
Just as the Nile Flows from the South, black people have been coming from the south since the beginning of time and are the first people of ancient Egypt. There was no other origin for the aboriginal populations of Nile Valley in Egypt. Therefore, just as they followed the Nile and depended on it for sustenance, so too did they record this in their mythology.
NG, of course, is not making any sense in trying to avoid all of this by claiming the first "black" kings in Egypt came during the 25th dynasty.
As for the symbolism of the of the primeval mound of the earth and the seed representing the divine force of will as symbolized by Ra, there are many Egyptian texts that can be referenced. The concept of the creative will as symbolized by the earth, the semen (seed) and sun are seen in over and over in Egyptian cosmology. Min, Geb and Osiris are symbolic of the creative force of the earth which propagates life through the seed/semen. The sun is symbolic of the radiant energies of creation that flows from the creator. The primeval mound of creation becomes the latent material of the universe from which all things are created. These concepts are seen throughout Egyptian cosmological history in many forms and combinations and it is by understanding these combinations of symbols that you can understand their meaning. However, the nature of Eurocentric misunderstandings and discourse requires that many references to these works will often belittle or contradict the facts of the texts themselves. This isn't to be unexpected. One has to read the originals for oneself and look at the original scenes from the tombs and temples to understand their meaning.
posted
^ I think it's more accurate to say the image above is reminicent of their parents (Geb and Nut) with Osiris being his father Geb the earth and Isis her mother Nut the sky. In mythology Nut the heavens would hover over her husband Geb with an erect penis stretching up toward her.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Isis and Nut both represent mother nature or the feminine principle of motherhood and nurturing in creation while the earth, geb or Osiris represent the male principle of the seed. One is the active principle or Male force which is ejaculation. The other is the passive principle, the feminine force or the nurturing womb. The active principle is the latent SEED (idea form/thought/concept/logos/will force/intent) bought into existence as the spark, light, sun or big bang by the infinite womb of the physical material universe. In other words the physical universe is the womb and birth chamber of the divine will which is the seed of life which is the latent hidden aspect of material existence. It is a fundamental reflection of duality in nature and the physical universe as a fundamental and essential aspect of creation. It represents the idea that life rises ,is sustained and regenerated from within the latent substance of the universe itself as a divine principle of eternal life. The male seed is nurtured and gestated to fruition by the feminine principle of nurturing. The heavens or sky is the mother of the stars and an expression of the cycles of birth death and regeneration(rebirth). Energy is never created nor destroyed it simply changes form, with change being the fundamental process at work in sustaining life itself and the origin of the concept of al-chemia , alchemy or now chemistry(and physics). In animals it happens through ejaculation into the womb. In plants fish and some other species, the male seed is spread by the wind, birds, bees or ocean currents and carried to the feminine receptacle. It is all a reflection of the same cosmological concept.
Posts: 8897 | Registered: May 2005
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I want to take the time to thank several of the poster who have contributed so much valuable information and insight.
Despite the vitriol, both rasol and Doug M have brought important issues to the table. We can disagree and still be civil and show respect. Also high on my list are Djehuti, Asar, al Takuri. There are others but I have not as yet had a chance to cover everything because unfortunately "trolls" come in and try to ruin threads.
PS what happened to Wally? Links to his web pages are dead.
Posts: 84 | From: Oakland, Caifornia | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
^ Yes, I finally memorized your new web address. The death of geocities has caused me lose so many valuable websites and I'm still on a quest to find the new addresses of so many who were part of that gone domain. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I can't do it myself with this device so someone please help me and xfer the below to theBLACK IS WRONG thread
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
And to think, all of this stems from Euros being unable to deal with their rationalization for trading in African flesh that Africans are somehow less human subhuman unhuman inhuman other than human or as one European count put it:
A guilty conscience is a hard thing to salve. It's easier to hate what invoked it than to rectify the wrong that called it forth and thus finally and for all time put it to rest.
Just like the USA southerners expurgated that passage from Volney's Ruins so are the antiblack crew seek to obfuscate the Blackness of the founders and up to New Kingdom ancient Egyptians now nearly 300 years later.
A luta continua the struggle continues
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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