'Iwen' was considered an integral part of an item's or person's nature in Ancient Egypt, and the term could interchangeably mean color, appearance, character, being, or nature. Items with similar color were believed to have similar properties.
Purity of colour was important to Ancient Egyptians and the artist would usually complete everything in one color before moving on to the next. Paintings would be finished off with fine brushwork to outline the work and add limited interior detail. Colors were often paired.
Black (Ancient Egyptian name 'kem') was the Ancient Egyptian name for the country: 'kemet' (possibly pronounced "keme"/"kemmay"). It was the colour of the life-giving silt left by the Nile inundation. Black symbolized completion (both as in an end and as in fullness), fertility, life, new life, and resurrection as seen through the yearly agricultural cycle. It was also the color of the Osiris (also known as 'Kem Wer', or Great/Original/Mighty black), resurrected god of the afterlife, who, according to one tradition is the founder of Thebes. Black was often used on statues and coffins to invoke the process of regeneration ascribed to the god Osiris. Black was also used to represent the skin colour of people from the south.
(The fertile dark colored ground of the Nile Valley pictured above played a vital role in the developement of Dynastic Egypt.)
White (Ancient Egyptian name 'hedj') was the color of purity, cleanliness, and simplicity. Tools, sacred objects, and even priest's sandals were white for this reason. Sacred animals were also depicted as white. Clothing, which was often just undyed linen, was usually depicted as white.
Silver (also 'hedj', but written with the determinative for precious metal) represented the color of the sun at dawn, and the moon, and stars. Silver was a rarer metal than gold in Ancient Egypt and held a greater value.
Blue (Ancient Egyptian name 'irtyu') was the color of the heavens, the dominion of the gods, as well as the color of water, the yearly inundation, and the primeval flood. Although Ancient Egyptians favored semi-precious stones such as azurite (Ancient Egyptian name 'tefer') and lapis lazuli (Ancient Egyptian name 'khesbedj', imported at great cost across the Sinai Desert) for jewelery and inlay, technology was advanced enough to produce the world's first synthetic pigment, known since medieval times as Egyptian blue. Depending on the degree to which the pigment Egyptian blue was ground, the color could vary from a rich, dark blue (coarse) to a pale, ethereal blue (very fine).
Blue was used for the hair of gods (specifically lapis lazuli, or the darkest of Egyptian blues) and for the face of the god Amun – a practice which was extended to those Pharaohs associated with him.
Green (Ancient Egyptian name 'wahdj') was the color of fresh growth, vegetation, life, vitality and resurrection (the latter along with the color black). The hieroglyph for green is a papyrus stem and frond.
Green was the color of the 'Eye of Horus', or 'Wedjat', which had healing and protective powers, and so the color also represented well-being. To do 'green things' was to behave in a positive, life affirming manner.
When written with the determinative for minerals (three grains of sand) 'wahdj' becomes the word for malachite, a color which represented joy.
Turquoise (Ancient Egyptian name 'mefkhat'), a particularly valued green-blue stone from the Sinai, also represented joy, as well as the color of the sun's rays at dawn. Through the deity Hathor, the Lady of Turquoise, who controlled the destiny of new-born babies, it can be considered a color of promise and foretelling.
Yellow (Ancient Egyptian name 'khenet') was the color of women's skin, the color of some who lived around the mediterranean, the color of the sun and, along with gold, could represent perfection. As with blue and green, the Ancient Egyptians produced a synthetic yellow – lead antimonite – its Ancient Egyptian name, however, is unknown.
When looking at Ancient Egyptian art today it can be difficult to distinguish between lead antimonite, (which is a pale yellow), lead white (which is very slightly yellow but can darken over time) and orpiment (a relatively strong yellow which fades in direct sunlight). This has lead some art historians to believe white and yellow were interchangeable.
Realgar, which we consider to be an orange color today, would have been classed as yellow. (The term orange didn't come into European use until the fruit arrived in Europe from China in medieval times – even Cennini writing in the 15th century describes it as a yellow!)
Gold (Ancient Egyptian name 'newb', from which 'nubian' derives) represented the flesh of the gods and was used for anything which was considered eternal or indestructible. (Gold was used on a sarcophagus, for example, because the pharaoh had become a god.) Whilst gold leaf could be used on sculpture, yellow or reddish-yellows were used in paintings for the skin of gods. (There were gods that were painted with blue, green, and black skin.)
Red (Ancient Egyptian name 'deshr') was primarily the color of chaos and disorder – the color of the desert (Ancient Egyptian name 'deshret') which was considered the opposite of the fertile black ('kemet') inundated soil of the Nile Valley. One of the principal red pigments, red ochre, was obtained from the desert.
(The hieroglyph for red is the hermit ibis, a bird which, unlike the other ibis of Egypt, lives in dry areas and eats insects and small creatures.)
Red was also the color of destructive fire and fury, and was used to represent something dangerous.
Through its relation to the desert, red became the color of the god Seth, the traditional god of chaos, and was associated with death – the desert was a place where people were exiled or sent to work in mines. The desert was also regarded as the entrance to the underworld where the sun disappeared each night.
However, this most potent of all colors in Ancient Egypt, was also a color of life and protection – derived from the color of blood and the life-supporting power of fire. It was therefore commonly used for protective amulets.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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But you are contradicting yourself, as you just posted that the Kem refers to black soil and people to the south, but not the Egyptian PEOPLE themselves as a nation. Which IS EXACTLY what Kemet represents and while the Egyptians may have used the black color for people to the South they NEVER called people to the South as KEMEMOU (black people). They ONLY used that for themselves. And likewise the color black was the most powerful color in their cosmology, as mentioned, which as used for their deities, in statues and in other ways as a symbol of power and greatness, hence many black granite statues of various pharaohs.
Likewise, the Egyptians reserved the word Nub for THEMSELVES as the second highest color signifying the divine in their cosmology. They NEVER called any Southerner a "nubty". They ONLY used that term for themselves, cities within Kmt and their deities and every king had a Nebty name or golden throne name, further symbolizing their divinity.
quote: The third name was the "Golden Horus"- name. The origins of the Golden Horus name may be traced in royal inscriptions of the 1st and 3rd Dynasties and in the Palermo Stone. It was simply written with the hieroglyphic for gold when it was introduced in the Early Dynastic period, so perhaps it symbolized the king’s divinity (gold was considered eternal and the gods were said to have skins of gold; gold therefore was a representation of divinity). Gold also symbolized the appearance of the rising sun.
It is also possible that the Golden name derived from the early connection of the god Set with the king. Set was the tutelary god of the city of Nubt or Naqada, the center of the gold trade. Set was also the patron deity of at least one king of the 2nd dynasty and possibly more.
Somehow, I think you are seriously deluding yourself if you think this article is going AGAINST Kemet haters. It sounds more like a passive form of the same nonsense. And notice how that entire article mentions nothing about the colors the Egyptians used for themselves, which were most often medium to dark brown, which is quite odd don't you think?
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^What I think is "odd" is the fact that they promote that color mixing wasn't widespread, yet they almost always mixed colors to get the browns they used for themselves, some Asiatics, and Southerners.
quote:Somehow, I think you are seriously deluding yourself if you think this article is going AGAINST Kemet haters.
No where was this ever suggested.
I've never really 'LOOKED' but compared to other articles that simply guess and dance around with "black symbolised death and the dead" and then meakly mention the "life" aspect only when trying to protect a "black land" ruse, I think it's alot less contradictory.
It was said that the thread (if only in part) goes against those who whine that kem as a label for something *brown* doesn't make sense.
Which brings me to:
quote:And notice how that entire article mentions nothing about the colors the Egyptians used for themselves, which were most often medium to dark brown
For the AE, was there a "brown"?
Color is subjective, and to the ancient Egyptians, orange was just another tint of "yellow", pink, another shade of "red", and the people were as "Kem" as the BROWN Nile Valley Soil.
Kemet
Hawaii:
quote:But you are contradicting yourself, as you just posted that the Kem refers to black soil and people to the south, but not the Egyptian PEOPLE themselves as a nation.
I posted that Kem is the AE word for black, that it referred to their nation (Kemet), and that black paint was commonly used for people from the South.
It was also used for Kemetians, people's bas, and for ancient Egyptian gods.
As for the Nehesy (southerners), it was probably just an indicator of shade.
quote:while the Egyptians may have used the black color for people to the South they NEVER called people to the South as KEMEMOU (black people).
Kemetians DO refer to Southerners as part of Km.t [nwt] (black nation) in one tomb.
And so, even if they never used the words for "black people" to refer to them, yet painted them black, don't you think that could be symbolic in some way?
They do claim to have come from Pwnt (probably in Northern Ethiopia and Eritrea).
quote:Likewise, the Egyptians reserved the word Nub for THEMSELVES as the second highest color signifying the divine in their cosmology. They NEVER called any Southerner a "nubty". They ONLY used that term for themselves, cities within Kmt and their deities and every king had a Nebty name or golden throne name, further symbolizing their divinity.
^Truth.
quote:It sounds more like a passive form of the same nonsense.
agreed.
Doug, you know I'm not biased, so why not try and think more PRO-actively for this thread, rather than reactively?
Being to reactionary is like trudging through high water instead of moving on dry land.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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You forgot to mention that they also used the color white for death, except in the case of Ausar (Osiris).
Posts: 100 | Registered: Jan 2009
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But "death" in Kemetic concepts is very complex. Your link to Wally's web-page, for instance is more specific about the symbolism attached to 'white toning' of figures: that is to say, "recently" deceased. "Black tone" too is associated with death; but here it is linked with "eternity" (longevity) and resurrection beyond life.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Considering how racially charged/stratified the subject of Ancient Egypt has been since colonial times, I guess it depends on who you get your information from.
Also, as far as the women being of lighter shade (yellow), it can be seen in real life, especially in eastern and southern Africa (all the way to South Africa) that the women seem to be a shade lighter than the men.
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Considering how racially charged/stratified the subject of Ancient Egypt has been since colonial times, I guess it depends on who you get your information from.
Information about what?...when primary Kemetic texts and the accompanying illustrations speak for themselves? That is to say, looking to the words of the ancient Egyptian authors themselves.
And as far as relying on third parties, there is a difference between first-hand translation work by those who directly examined the *actual* primary texts [like say, the Rosetta Stone] themselves and those who simply refer to these translators, and then run off with their own conclusions or ideas. Do you know any figure of the former, who argues otherwise, about the association of 'black' with 'death', or its complex theme?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Perhaps the reason black represents completeness or completion in AE texts (and in one instance even the end or completion of ones "life") is because it represented all colors.
The more paints you mix, the more the color approaches black, and black is dominant.
I'm not concerned with the "modern scientific" definition of the absence (or absorbtion) of all light which has no bearings on what the AE thought.
Often, the Ba has been said to represent someone's person, and to be similar to their personality.
The Bas of formerly desceased ancient Egyptians were depicted black.
Recently deceased people were depicted white. Could this be similar to the Western notion of ghosts being somewhat transparent, faded, and white symbolic of the fact that their existance is beginnign to fade away?
posted
How did the AE describe one born of black parents, but born white, as in, Albinism? We know the recent African myths and traditions. Were the AE traditions towards Albinism the same as African? In Ancient Africa, were Albinos treated the same as today, hunted and coveted due to some ancient myth regarding their defect?
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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^ this picture was posted over a year ago on this forum by the troll, jamie salassin.
he tried to argue that the black in kemet refers to black soil, not black people.
this picture is supposed to show how the soil in Egypt is obviously 'black'.
this argument is a looney disaster, since the Egyptians shown tilling the soil, are darker than the soil, which means the people are even more 'obviously' black, and so leads directly to the conclusion that the kemo-phobes seek to deny.
The AE referred to themselves as Black...because -they- were.
Introducing 'soil' as an excuse makes no sense.
the soil is -not- what is referenced as black.
the people are.
and the soil is no darker than the skin of the people, to begin with.
so the argument becomes a classic example of mystification, which does not seek answers, but rather seeks to confound even the most obvious answers with "question begging."
question begging asks that the issue in question, that AE references to Black people and Black skin are actually *not* references to people or skin, be conceded in favor of something more palatable [say, soil, fertility, etc.] to those making the argument, but which the AE actually did not say.
in other words replace a conclusion for which evidence exists for a preferrred conclusion for which no evidence exists.
for the record - the egyptians do refer in ancient text to themselves as black people, and their skin as black skin.
there is no reference in the primary text to egyptians as a people of the black soil, or that would support the notion that black is primarily and abstract reference to fertility, which would so *deflect* their native reference to themselves as Blacks.
Black 'soil' fallacy is every bit as much of a lie, as it would be to suggest that the Black people of the southern United States call themselves Black because of the 'dark fertile soil of the Mississippi river'.
One would then support this argument, by showing a Black farmer tilling Mississippi delta soil, with the same self defeating effect.
It is a completely contrived argument, that has the same failings of question begging as does 'soil' with regard to AE Blackness.
the very idea is a tribute to the power of ad nauseum fallacy, to persuade [some] people of even the most transparently stupid ideas, by simply repeating them, yet never providing any evidence.
According to the primary text, the AE were a people who referred to themselves as Blacks, because they had dark skin.
They contrasted themselves in this regard to Asiatics, whom they called Reds, because they were lighter in skin.
Black people [Kememu] and Red people [Deshrutu] had the same meaning for AE, that Black people and White people has for anyone reading this today, and for the same reasons, because it reflects the same observable reality.
Now, who will take the bait of introducing strawmen designed to evade this reality?
quote:How did the AE describe one born of black parents, but born white,
For the AE there were no 'whites'.
Whites exist for you due to your European dialectic of skin color.
Skin color was referrred to as Black and Red.
You will find Black in the primary text, you will find Reds, you will not find any whites.
This is and African color dialectic which still exists.
It exists between lighter and darker African ethnenes who refer to themselves as Blacks and Reds respectively.
It exists between dark Africans, [Blacks - ie - "Egyptians and Ethiopians"] and lighter non African Reds. [Aamu, Asiatics, Syrians, etc.]
It exists *within* African ethnic groups who refer to darker individuals as Black and lighter individuals as Red.
And this is how the Kemetians treated the issue of darker and lighter individuals amongst themselves.
There is a case in Kemetic tx't of two brothers, one known under the appellation 'the Black', and the other 'the Red'.
This is not complicated [actually there is no aspect of this that isn't reproduced verbatim in modern Africa, Australia, in the Carribian, in North America, and elsewhere].
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Prophesy of Neferti: Then a king will come from the South, Ameny, the justified, by name, Son of a woman of Ta-Seti, child of Upper Egypt. He will take the white crown, He will wear the red crown; He will join the Two Mighty Ones, One will build the Walls-of-the-Ruler, to bar Asiatics from entering Egypt;
Whether this is 'true' prophesy or post facto the question that is begged is, how can the son of a Nubian woman restore Egypt's integrity and honor? Why is there a perception (in the prophesy) that said integrity is violated by "Asiatics"? Egyptian history as related by [wst] scholars, makes no sense. You have to read past their dissembling in order to understand any of it.
Too many royals came from the South and far South for it not to be meaningful.
So perhaps the white crown of Upper Egypt is the crown of the pure blood line and culture of Dynastic Kemet, and the Red crown of Lower Egypt was the guardian crown. Set was at times a guardian of Ra.
Bes - household protector:
quote:Bes (also spelt as Bisu) was an Egyptian deity worshipped in the later periods of dynastic history as a protector of households and in particular mothers and children. In time he would be regarded as the defender of everything good and the enemy of all that is bad.
quote:Originally posted by nomorelies: Considering how racially charged/stratified the subject of Ancient Egypt has been since colonial times, I guess it depends on who you get your information from.Also, as far as the women being of lighter shade (yellow), it can be seen in real life, especially in eastern and southern Africa (all the way to South Africa) that the women seem to be a shade lighter than the men.
The ancient Egyptians had a saying that every girl was a little "nwt", referring to the Sky goddess, Nwt, the word itself meaning "night".
Meaning they were considered to be at least in part divine.
In some settings they painted women in similar skin tone to men like in the Armana period and when making the clay models of people (which were usually more realistic and less symbolic artistic renderings in the first place).
quote:How did the AE describe one born of black parents, but born white,
For the AE there were no 'whites'.
Whites exist for you due to your European dialectic of skin color.
Skin color was referrred to as Black and Red.
You will find Black in the primary text, you will find Reds, you will not find any whites.
This is and African color dialectic which still exists.
It exists between lighter and darker African ethnenes who refer to themselves as Blacks and Reds respectively.
It exists between dark Africans, [Blacks - ie - "Egyptians and Ethiopians"] and lighter non African Reds. [Aamu, Asiatics, Syrians, etc.]
It exists *within* African ethnic groups who refer to darker individuals as Black and lighter individuals as Red.
And this is how the Kemetians treated the issue of darker and lighter individuals amongst themselves.
There is a case in Kemetic tx't of two brothers, one known under the appellation 'the Black', and the other 'the Red'.
This is not complicated [actually there is no aspect of this that isn't reproduced verbatim in modern Africa, Australia, in the Carribian, in North America, and elsewhere].
Not true. Albinism existed in AE, as it did in other cultures.
If a child born with Albinism was white, then AE had some way of describing this condition, and it wouldn't be Black or Red. More likely, it would have been in line with the African descriptions indicating there was something "different" about the child or person relative to it's parents, or the general "Black/Red" population.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:How did the AE describe one born of black parents, but born white,
For the AE there were no 'whites'.
Whites exist for you due to your European dialectic of skin color.
Skin color was referrred to as Black and Red.
You will find Black in the primary text, you will find Reds, you will not find any whites.
This is and African color dialectic which still exists.
It exists between lighter and darker African ethnenes who refer to themselves as Blacks and Reds respectively.
It exists between dark Africans, [Blacks - ie - "Egyptians and Ethiopians"] and lighter non African Reds. [Aamu, Asiatics, Syrians, etc.]
It exists *within* African ethnic groups who refer to darker individuals as Black and lighter individuals as Red.
And this is how the Kemetians treated the issue of darker and lighter individuals amongst themselves.
There is a case in Kemetic tx't of two brothers, one known under the appellation 'the Black', and the other 'the Red'.
This is not complicated [actually there is no aspect of this that isn't reproduced verbatim in modern Africa, Australia, in the Carribian, in North America, and elsewhere].
This is so TRUE. How many of us (blacks) have heard of our lighter skinned sistren referred to as "red-bone", or "red"? I just heard it today about 5 times...LOL!
Posts: 100 | Registered: Jan 2009
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I don't hear it often where I'm from but I've heard it too and hear it's a popular term among Southern blacks (calling their lighter compatriots 'red bone').
My younger brother was called 'red man' for the longest up until a little past when he was a toddler because he had low blood pressure and when he was mad or upset for a black person you could see alot of red (we're medium skinned).
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Not true. Albinism existed in AE, as it did in other cultures.
If a child born with Albinism was white, then AE had some way of describing this condition, and it wouldn't be Black or Red. More likely, it would have been in line with the African descriptions indicating there was something "different" about the child or person relative to it's parents, or the general "Black/Red" population.
Just to make it clear I'd prefer that only pictures of AE art and related art systems be posted, and other pictures left as links.
He's arguing for a color dialectic based on an observation that less melanin less obscures the red tint you see in peoples skin. I've even heard whites who've asked "black people can't turn read .. can black pepole turn red?". More melanin - you notice it less [keep in mind everyone that this isn't the fundamental point of this thread, just a small observation].
quote:Originally posted by rasol: This is and African color dialectic which still exists.
Right, even in the American Diaspora.
For obvious and natural reasons:
Nigerian sign that appears to be painted (lamin shrunk the size):
Most Nigerians are round about this colour. We also get much darker than this depending on how much of - and how recent - exposure to the very intense Nigerian sun.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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^ Those aren't red bones. Those are Albinos. In the Hood an light black is some times referred to as Redbone. This "lightness" is generally due to admixture from generations away. Not Albinism.
However, a person possessing very little to no melanin (Albinism) is called many things as alternative to red bone, such as, Casper, Snow-XXX, Ghost, or just plain, White. Usually when describing someone of this nature, the describer would say, "you know, that white looking cat", rather than. that "light skinned" cat.
Native Americans found Albinism among their tribal members so different, that those born with Albinism were sent to live within a tribe of Albinos. Native American names assigned to albinos are usually names such as, Snow bird, Snowy Owl, The White Buffalo Woman, White Fox etc., but always, WHITE, and this is from people who are predominately, Red. With Native Americans, someone born with Albinism was viewed as an talisman, akin to the Albino Water Buffalo. Even Albino animals are not spared as seen in this Inuit Moose article.
Protect White Moose Like First Nations Culture? Scandinavia is home to 450,000 moose. Now residents and hunters are at odds over the fate of a rare albino moose spotted in the forests of Ostfold province in Norway. Locals have named the moose "Albin." They want the moose protected from hunters much like it is in Ontario, Canada where white moose are important in First Nations culture and art. Some hunters and scientists, however, want the moose shot.
Albino moose have inferior sight or hearing and their lack of pigmentation makes them more visible to predators. If Albin breeds, the hunters say the genetic abnormalities could spread throughout the herd. Morten Brommdal, from the University of Oslo, calls Albino a genetic "mistake... That so many people want the white moose to live is an emotional issue," he said. "It is exciting to have such a rarity rustling around. But if it is spared, we risk the moose's breeding qualities spreading."
Africans in Tanzania, Cameroon, Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Ghana, Guinea Bissau, Mali, Mauritius, Mozambique, Niger, Rwanda, Sao Tome and Principe make a clear distinction between those with Albinism and Blacks/Reds. They too refer to them as White, Ghosts, etc. I think the AEs also had good eyes and also made a clear distinction.
back to AE color symbolism, could the very dark browns but not god-black the AE used for Kememou have been symbolic of being close to perfect? And could this have been considered to be the best or most preferable state a human could be at (ie: near perfect)?
They were after all chauvinists. Black over red and their degree of black above others [????]. While they acknowledged ties with other peoples in Km.t [nwt] (Tehenu, Nehesi) they considered TaWy/Ta Mery supreme, correct?
***
A modern scientific ideal is to eternally approach truth, but never to 'claim' it.
The idea behind theories is to continually progressand get closer to truth (based on the fact that we "don't know" as opposed to the idea 'knowing' of absolute truth).
All people are *conservative* in some manner but the Kemu were a *progressive* people as well in terms of their values.
I'm posting the below not to show any "scientific values" from a 5,000 year old people (rediculous), but to glean their PHILOSOPHY and to show that they were intelligent people capable of deep and critical thought:
quote: It is better not to know and to know that one does not know,than presumptuously to attribute some random meaning to symbols.
True teaching is not an accumulation of knowledge; it is an awaking of consciousness which goes through successive stages.
Never believe a word without putting its truth to the test; discernment does not grow in laziness; and this faculty of discernment is indispensable to the Seeker.
There are two kinds of error: blind credulity and piecemeal criticism.
To know means to record in one's memory; but to understand means to blend with the thing and to assimilate it oneself.
Know the world in yourself. Never look for yourself in the world, for this would be to project your illusion.
If you are searching for a Neter, observe Nature!
Our senses serve to affirm, not to know.
Many of a modern westerner could learn from these proverbs Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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^OT but it's funny many of them still consider Greece the origin of philosophical thought.
Proverbs ARE 'philosophy'. People always actin like they so fresh. ("Ain't nothin new under the sun")
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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* Anthropologist C. Scott Littleton suggests that blond hair may have originated from Neanderthals.
Littleton bases his hypothesis on the climatic conditions of northern latitude and cold weather adaptation. Other physical features included thick barrel chests; short limbs; and hooded eyes under heavy eye ridges. He feels that the classic Neanderthal's skin color was probably fair (being relatively devoid of melanin), that their eyes were blue or hazel, and again that their hair was generally blonde (possibly reddish). Lighter skin, eye, and hair color among their successors, the Cro- Magnons, may have in part resulted from the infusion of Neanderthal genes among any fertile (probably rare) offspring of Homo sapiens and Neanderthal matings. He also suggests that it is equally possible that latent albinism among these relatively recent African emigres became much more common independent of any contacts with the indigenes , due to pressures exerted by their northern, ice-age environment of C. 40,000 BC.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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^ Let's get back to the cultural dialectics of color among ancient Egyptians and leave the pseudo-science nonsense at home.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Could black and white be characteristics of one's intellect:
What immediately comes to mind for me is the
"Lord of the white cloth" epithet Osirus (and inner African gods like the one Obatala? posted above).
Afro-Asian people like the Hebrews also considered white clothes symbolic ... at least the Greco-Egyptianized influenced ones who I think wrote the book of Revelations. For them, nakedness was ignorance.
Black (the color of God/Gods) here could imply deep knowledge / depth to one's intellect.
Whereas white is the knowledge of wisdoms or simple ***principles*** "clothing" ones self.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: But you are contradicting yourself...
^Though I've already dealt with this sentence, I forgot to concede to you that I didn't point out in my opening post that they painted themselves black as well.
And one edit. I wrote:
quote:As for the Nehesy (southerners), it was probably just an indicator of shade.
Scratch that, could have just been an indicator of shade is better.
Of course, they weren't painted jet either
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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Ausar has green skin. Heru has green eyes (euphemism for his "heavenly" ordained - ie, sun and moon - "vision's" nature is to grow).
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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^ Ausar's green skin represented green fertile land as he was an agricultural god. Amun was depicted as blue for omnipotence like a blue sky etc. Colors in ancient Egypt were symbolic of something as it is in many African cultures. One thing I find interesting though is the striking contrast between black which is revered and red which may or may not be feared or degraded.
Black was the color of divinity or spirit to ancient Egyptians and many gods including Ausar, Aset, Anpu (Anubis), etc. were depicted as jet black. The Oromo believe their supreme god Waaqa to be black also.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by nomorelies: Considering how racially charged/stratified the subject of Ancient Egypt has been since colonial times, I guess it depends on who you get your information from.Also, as far as the women being of lighter shade (yellow), it can be seen in real life, especially in eastern and southern Africa (all the way to South Africa) that the women seem to be a shade lighter than the men.
The ancient Egyptians had a saying that every girl was a little "nwt", referring to the Sky goddess, Nwt, the word itself meaning "night".
Meaning they were considered to be at least in part divine.
In some settings they painted women in similar skin tone to men like in the Armana period and when making the clay models of people (which were usually more realistic and less symbolic artistic renderings in the first place).
Still, I notice a pattern in AE artwork where women were usually painted in a yellow brown color that contrasts with the brown[/URL] we see for men.
Men are almost always painted dark brown in color with red, yellow, and black paints
(It also seems that at some times there seems to be more yellow and less red paint [available?] than at others.)
... ^All colors had sacred aspects but what could yellow have symbolised here?
Yellow probably symbolized the the sky as in the Sun in the sky as Isis is often portrayed wearing a light blue or blue clothing with a yellow skin color and a red waist band. This symbolizes mother nature and the nurturing aspect of nature which provides for and feeds her children, as blue is the sky, yellow is the sun and the red is the blood of new life:
The dichotomy here between men and women goes back to the symbolism of Nut and Geb, where nut is the feminine principle symbolized as the sky and Geb is the male principle and symbolized as the earth itself.
Some later texts from the Ptolemaic temples at Kom Ombo and the Temple of Isis have passages that refer to the new dawn and light on the horizon as a sign of the presence and coming of Isis to which Heru (symbolized as a lotus ) rises and opens to welcome his mother and she comes in on rays of gold and clothed in lapis azuli and turquoise, symbolizing the colors of the sunrise.
posted
There are some people who question whether there was any black land at all in Egypt, but I have seen actual photos and video footage of the Nile's fresh alluvial silt on the banks that give a black color.
Here is a pic of deposits after Sudanese Nile flooding.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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How's that for a Big Bang theory (pun intended as it just ran through my head)?
Back to black though: black in representing completeness, thouroughness, fullness, etc as opposed to white was by extension fertile/generative (life giving), re-generative ("new-life giving"), and virile/strong/potent which were aspects of green. Growth was a green attribute.
Continuing with the subject of the meaning of color and the gods
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Ausar's green skin represented green fertile land as he was an agricultural god. Amun was depicted as blue for omnipotence like a blue sky etc. Colors in ancient Egypt were symbolic of something as it is in many African cultures. One thing I find interesting though is the striking contrast between black which is revered and red which may or may not be feared or degraded.
Black was the color of divinity or spirit to ancient Egyptians and many gods including Ausar, Aset, Anpu (Anubis), etc. were depicted as jet black. The Oromo believe their supreme god Waaqa to be black also.
Speaking of such ...
Setekh was said to protect Ra during the sun-God's venture/disappearence into the sky Goddess Nwt's belly each night. The Setekh God and other red demons in Africa could obviously have represented things like blood and fire. I'm sure they noticed that non-plant life when cut most of the time bleeds red. Red could also have been associated with emotions, which like fire can be both helpful and destructive.
As for what other colors he may have been associated with in particular, I'm not sure.
His name supposedly means either "pillar" or "one who dazzles". Set was associated with a lifeless thing like the desert (though I'm not sure if this had to do with the Hyksos) and stone in one myth, as well as with desert animals like donkeys and gazelles and was depicted as what appears to some to be a composite of a jackal and an ardvaark (the AE version may have had thin fur and thus a reddish appearance). Set could have been a Salawa (mysterious canine with square ears) AND he could have originally been a Nile Valley Mormyrid fish which are found in waters near Kom Ombo, one of the sites of a Set temple: it was a fish that ate Osiris's severed penis (these medium sized "intelligent"/brainy fish with square fins and downturned snouts are only native to the African continent btw, and are found in West and Central Africa as well). In the New Kingdom Set was also depicted as creatures like Hippopotamus and Crocodiles.
As alluded to earlier there is a well known myth about him racing his boat made of stone that sinks, against Heru's boat made of wood which wins.
Perhaps Set/red is associated with consumption/mindless consumption. At least his post Hyksos evilized version.
Don't know that Nebthwt/Nepthys ("lady of the temple" -> Nebt is the word for bakset but is lady here, het here is temple/estate/enclosure) had to many associations with *concrete symbols* or objects like animals, "heavenly bodies", or other things ... which fits in well with what I know about her sister deity, Isis.
I do know that she like her sister is a protective deity, and a few websites attribute the fact that mourners were referred to as vultures of Nepthys to the fact that the AE probably recognized the care a mother vulture had for its young as well as the vultures "eating habits" (although it's not as if Isis wasn't associated with the dead).
quote:As the primary "nursing mother" of the incarnate Pharaonic-god, Horus, Nephthys also was considered to be, de facto, the mightiest nurse of the reigning Pharaoh himself.
quote:while Nephthys’s marriage to Seth was a part of Egyptian mythology, it was not a part of the myth of the murder and resurrection of Osiris. She was not paired with Seth the villain, but with Seth’s other aspect, the benevolent figure who was the killer of Apophis. This was the aspect of Seth worshiped in the western oases during the Roman period, where he is depicted with Nephthys as co-ruler.
Levai, Jessica. "Nephthys and Seth: Anatomy of a Mythical Marriage", Paper presented at The 58th Annual Meeting of the American Research Center in Egypt, Wyndham Toledo Hotel, Toledo, Ohio, Apr 20, 2007. http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p176897_index.html
And indeed, Nepthys was never so much of an antagonist, as was Sutekh after the expulsion of the Hyksos who chose to worship him.
According to wiki many scholars think that Nepthys might have been some sort of doppolganger or alternative or even "alter ego" to Isis, and based on their depictions I can see why. At the same time they do usually have to "complete" each other (wiki does mention Komir, a temple of Nebt het worship in Upper Egypt which doesn't even mention Isis despite mentioning a host of other important Gods).
Them together:
^Just noticed this one.
An apparent key difference is that Isis is usually connected with birth; I've only read of one such case for Nepthys.
So it follows that they aren't too different schematically as far as colors go. Each female head of the household btw was called the Nepthys according to a few sources.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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See what I mean? I will say that in depictions where they are clothed in the colors of the rays of sun light Nepthys's colors are darker than Isis's colors. Would say she was attached to the night/starts but I have never seen her garbed in stars as is Isis and they're both children of Nwt.
Nepthys affiliated with the dawn or evening possibly? Nebthwt was said to accompany Ra (sun god) for protection in his journey into the duat. Auset was said to join him in the coming of "dawn".
It's cool how Nebt-hwt's "enclosure" or "domain" glyph is always in a different color or colors (in association to the colors of the rest of her garb?).
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
As mentioned an epithet for the mourners the dead (which would not be a bad thing) is "vultures of Nepthys".
quote:Even so, in the Pyramid Texts, Nephthys possesses attributes of an ominous nature that make of her personality something occasionally unique, in comparison to Isis. Indeed, the hair of Nephthys is compared, in one curious passage, to the strips of linen that enshroud the deceased Pharaoh's mummy. These "tresses," however, are not considered to be bonds. On the contrary, they appear as life-giving and temporary impediments from which the Pharaoh is encouraged to "break free" and ascend to the afterlife. It is no great leap (in terms of symbolism) to see that the "tresses of Nephthys" here assume a role very much akin to the chrysalis-shell that simultaneously immobilizes and yet protectively transforms the caterpillar before it bursts forth into new life. To be certain, there is absolutely no overt comparison, in the Pyramid Texts, between this function of Nephthys and the chrysalis, but the symbolism is one that may merit further exploration of Nephthys's unique domain, since the aforementioned passage is one of only eight (in the Pyramid Texts) wherein this goddess appears independent of her complementary power, Isis.
So perhaps she has something to do with the transitional "death state" and Isis the "life state", whilst protecting the "living" meanwhile her sister Isis protects the dead Pharaoh
Perhaps her "mighty nurse" epithet has more to do with protection from death than inception into life, the latter of which is Isis's thing. She (Nepthys) having to do with protection/inception into death and Isis, inception/protection into life.
If anyone finds a picture of Nepthys garbed in stars or anything on how Nepthys is affiliated with the moon let me know.
The "goddess of sparcity, doom, gloom, the decrepit and darkness" shish is probably more Set-esque Western hysteria.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
So what? A zillion countries have black soil. The issue isn't soil. The issue is people.
quote: The fertile dark colored PEOPLE of the Nile Valley pictured above played a vital role in the development of Dynastic Egypt.)
A full four years later and all written here still hasn't sunk in and you still dialectically hold to KM.t[nwt] refering to Nile silt enriched soil.
Please follow the link to the The Soil Project thread and refresh yourself or provide mdw ntjr evidence of Kmtyw themselfs linking KM.t to soil.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: There are some people who question whether there was any black land at all in Egypt, but I have seen actual photos and video footage of the Nile's fresh alluvial silt on the banks that give a black color.
Here is a pic of deposits after Sudanese Nile flooding.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
The mdw ntr doesn't give support them talking about the soil or even the land. Kem is shown as a piece of charred wood. Chem in Wolof (Senegal) means burnt. The vision of black (actually just dark) soil doesn't bring to the mind something burnt.
Also, as Diop showed, when compared to it's neighboring desert land (red land), the heiroglyph does not match the same pattern.
Posts: 100 | Registered: Jan 2009
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The word land is added to this by Eurocentrists in order to create confusion.
It's a simple enough trick and manifestly ridiculous so it is amazing to see how well it works.
Thus, in a thread in which there is picture after picture of Black people, who are referred to as such [Kememu], and are painted with black skin which is also referred to as such [Kem ho], we somehow manage to deflect this truth via the distraction of black 'land' which is neither said nor shown.
quote:Unfortunately none, as that part I just remember being mentioned by someone.
The word land is added to this by Eurocentrists in order to create confusion.
It's a simple enough trick and manifestly ridiculous so it is amazing to see how well it works.
Thus, in a thread in which there is picture after picture of Black people, who are referred to as such [Kememu], and are painted with black skin which is also referred to as such [Kem ho], we somehow manage to deflect this truth via the distraction of black 'land' which is neither said nor shown.
quote:Unfortunately none, as that part I just remember being mentioned by someone.
Well.....there you go.
I was ONLY talking about the Km part of the heiroglyph referring to charred wood, and how that doesn't make sense with regard to moist black soil. I then pointed out that the rest of teh hieroglyph is unique when compared to how they described other LANDS.
Posts: 100 | Registered: Jan 2009
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