posted
Racists claim North Africans are "caucasian" while blacks are only native to Sub-Sahara.
They say that Egyptians were not black but their Nubian neighbors to their immediate south were...
but 'Nubia' is NOT in Sub-Sahara!
So I invite anyone who denies the black identity of Egypt to explain how the Nubians are black if they are not Sub-Saharan either!
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Maybe there's an invisible laser fence at some point on the Nile that zaps any black people moving downriver. Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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In my opinion a thread broached as this one was only keeps what it protests against alive.
Recently excellent threads about TaSeti, Wawat, Nehesi, Medjay, etc., were bumped or received contributing posts.
The material in those threads moves far beyond the simplistic blackblackblack hubris to the point of learning more about the societies and people upriver from Egypt.
This is where we (Africans at home and abroad) need to place our concetration. Let non-Africans continue to keep concepts like caucasian and nubian alive and well, disguised as an attempt to challenge those notions.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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^ Nope. This thread actually makes more sense than YOUR dumbass!
But I agree with you Takruri that this is somewhat elementary. Perhaps it should go in the Ancient Egypt section.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
alTakruri wrote: -------------------------- This is where we (Africans at home and abroad) need to place our concetration. Let non-Africans continue to keep concepts like caucasian and nubian alive and well, disguised as an attempt to challenge those notions. --------------------------
Folks, guess which of these groups Djehuti belongs to.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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Well i actually believe that Sudan,,Eritrea are not part of Sub-sahara africa they are actually Northeast africa Proper.
Posts: 410 | From: Al-Ard | Registered: Jun 2009
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^Do you also believe, say Mali, Nigeria and Niger are also not part of sub-Saharan Africa; and that they too are 'north' Africa "proper"?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Caucasian North africa generally refers to those areas that are on the Med. You guys all know that.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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That just means the littoral areas that were colonised by the Romans, Turks and others. So what else is new. Is there also a Caucasian South Africa too?
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Mali Niger Chad are not sub-sahara but nigeria is a toss up. Being Sub-sahara doesnt change those people being Ancient and civilized.
I consider the Sahara and Sahel the same North Africans. Chad,Niger,Sudan,Eritrea,Mali etc have more in common as livelyhood goes Mauratania,Morrocco,Algeria,Tunsia,Egypt,and Liyba
Posts: 410 | From: Al-Ard | Registered: Jun 2009
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Mali, Niger and Chad are not technically "sub-Saharan" based on the location of the Sahara now, but few doubt that they are populated by "black" people. Some Eurocentrics posit a "North African" category incorporating these 3 countries, contrasting it with "sub-Saharan" West Africa, hoping to create an artificial "racial" separation, and insinuating "North African" as a proxy for "non-black". While insisting on a rigid "true negro" model further south, the "North African" category is curiously flexible, with a variety of types conveniently incorporated into a "Caucasoid" grouping.
At the same time, certain countries truly below the Sahara on the physical, like Ethiopia and Somalia are mysteriously deemed "non-Sub Saharan" and "non-black" .. illustrating the bankruptcy, hypocrisy and confusion of much Eurocentric scholarship.
I recall reading books in the 1980s with the authors boldly proclaiming things like 'Black Africa never had the wheel" when in fact, the wheel was known in the Sahara for millennia, as documented by numerous rock paintings, and was known in Nubia, which the authors contradictorily classified as black. Indeed it is documented that the Nubians not only used, but actually manufactured chariots for Egypt in some eras (Morkot 2003). And somehow places like Ethiopia, itself "sub-Saharan," mysteriously vanished from the roll of places known as "black" or "sub-Saharan" Africa.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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zarahan, Nobody is trying to create anything. there is no such thing as a eurocentric.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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The Azerbaijan Connection Challenging Euro-Centric Theories of Migration
by Dr. Thor Heyerdahl
I think Thor Heyerdahl carries a tad more weight in academic circles than you.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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Okay simple! Above is a synopsis of Thor Heyerdahl's accomplishments. Now let's see your accomplishments.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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He has published a good bit more than I have. that said, his use of the term eurocentric is a subjective point of view and is based more on his world view than on scholarship.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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When did you assay his use of the word "eurocentic" to determine how much it is based upon subjective judgement and how much based upon scholarship? Show us your critique of his use of this word.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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Eu⋅ro⋅cen⋅tric /ˌyʊərəˈsɛntrɪk, ˌyɜr-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [yoor-uh-sen-trik, yur-] Show IPA Use eurocentric in a Sentence –adjective 1. centered on Europe and Europeans. 2. considering Europe and Europeans as focal to world culture, history, economics, etc.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Objective scholars would not inaccurately give weight to one particular region over another. Proper historical method does not provide one with room to offer considerations which deviate from from the search for objective truth.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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You cut and paste a definition of eurocentric from the internet in response to my reasonable request?
I repeat my question. When did you evaluate, outside of this conversation, Thor Heyerdahl's use of the word eurocentric? As a scholar you cannot possibly have drawn a conclusion regarding his use of this word without weighing the evidence.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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There is only one way to use the word apocaypse. Do not play these little games with me. Do you have another definition?
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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So we can conclude that you have no basis for concluding that Thor Heyerdahl's use of the word is a "subjective point of view and is based more on his world view than on scholarship." We can further conclude that you've never read any of his works and so have no idea what his world view is. Your sloppy scholarship in this instance leads us to generalize that you're a sloppy thinker and therefore your opininon is to that extent diminished.
Therefore your challenge to Zarahan's use of the word "eurocentric" above is without merit. The validity of this word is further sanctioned through its use by an internationally renowned and respected scholar.
We've highjacked this thread enough and have fully addressed your objections.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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Nothing in your post was anything more than an uninformrd crass attack. I am not impressed.
Why is it neccessary that i be an expert on the man's work? My response was based on the use of the word "eurocentric."
What does "challenging eurocentric patterns of migration" mean to you? Are you some kind of nut?
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:My response was based on the use of the word "eurocentric."
Poor confused Patriot. You see, the word "eurocentric" was the subject matter. You "responded" that Heyerdahl's use of the word was subjective. I challenged you to show what you based this conclusion upon. You now inform me that Heyerdahl's use of the word "eurocentric" was "subjective" and not "based upon scholarship" because he used the word "eurocentric". Where do you teach again? This is simple stuff and you're getting lost.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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OK genius you tell us all. You are a stupid man. the word only has one definition.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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I won't get into name calling with you. You're guaranteed to lose if you persist.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: zarahan, Nobody is trying to create anything. there is no such thing as a eurocentric.
You claim "there is no such thing as a "eurocentric" yet a few posts down you are giving a definition of "Eurocentrism." If eurocentrics did not exist, how can the philosophy and its definition, and its wide reference and acceptance by various contemporary scholars exist at the present time? You are once again contradicting yourself. Thor Hyderdhal was already mentioned. He seems to think that "eurocentrics" exist.
Ironically, critic Mary Lefkowitz also thinks they exist as well. In fact in Not Out oF Africa (pg 151), she argues that some Afrocentrics mirror Eurocentrics in their arguments for the purity of this model or that.
In fact, in a critical 2002 essay entitled 'world as seen by Afrocentrists' Lefkowitz explicitly contrasts an 'Afrocentric" model with a 'Eurocentric" model and candidly announces that she will argue from the "Eurocentric" side of the coin:
quote" But I wish to make it clear at the outset that I have not chosen the Eurocentric narrative out of a reluctance to imagine anything new, or out of a desire to misrepresent the achievements or capacities of African peoples.[2] Such motivations are both abhorrent to me, as they should be to all of us. Rather, I will insist that the Afrocentric narrative needs to be taken seriously by everyone who is interested in the ancient world. Despite its historical inaccuracies, the Afrocentric narrative reminds us of facts that have not been sufficiently emphasized in the study of ancient history: that the ancient Egyptians came originally from Africa and that their cultural and intellectual achievements in the second millennium were remarkable.
She also notes: (quote)
It is clearly time to investigate the African side of Egypt as well, and not to be surprised to find that this side has something to teach us. Classicists in particular have tended to compare Egyptian religious thought unfavorably with Hebrew or Greek theology, in part because Egyptian theology is more complex, and notions of metamorphosis more sophisticated than their Greek counterparts.
There you have it from conservative Afrocentric critic Lefkowitz herself. To her eurocentrics do indeed exist, indeed she explicitly and candidly assumes the role of one of them.
So you have CONSERVATIVE scholars saying that indeed "Eurocentrists" exist, yet you claim that they don't. Both established liberal and conservative scholars dispute your claim. Can you explain why? Please elucidate..
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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well, that is a good question. The answer is that some scholars, especially those on the far left, view western civilization as a negative, as oppressive. They want to see western civilization as explotive and by definition dishonest. others want to deny the power of western civilization by inference. You hear that concept a great deal on sites like egyptsearch. The idea is that western civilization is by it's nature dishonest and distortive. This idea wants to say that these evil white euro-American scholars want to steal the real acomplishments of poor down trodden minorities around the world. I say that eurocentism does not exist in the sense that these scholars are unlike others. that in some way they are doing something OTHER than seeking objective truth. If one is seeking objective truth it does not matter whether the person is white, black or green. Truth is truth and seeking it is an end in itself.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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^ But we are not talking about the "far left" or left wing politics we are talking about SCHOLARSHIP pure and simple, and even your heroine Mary Lekfkowitz acknowledges that there is such a thing as Eurocentrism and Eurocentric bias. The only ones who deny it are fools such as yourself, Pat!
That Eurocentric bias has plagued and indeed was the very essence of Western scholarship is common knowledge to those educated especially in matters of scholarship. That you yourself deny this "professor" means that you are no doubt a victim of it no less than people of color!
This can be seen in your silly nonsensical responses...
quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: Caucasian North africa generally refers to those areas that are on the Med. You guys all know that.
LOL And I thought North Africa meant those areas that from the Sahara to the Mediterranean coasts and not jus those that border the Mediterranean.
Besides, what are to make of Egyptian civilization which arose to the south in the Nile Valley and NOT along the Mediterranean coasts??!
Also what are we to make of so-called 'Nubia' which is NOT by definition Sub-Sahara???
As usual you talk out both sides of your mouth like a typical liberal. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ LOL This coming from the fool who denies the existence of Eurocentrism when even his heroine Lefkowitz acknowledges it!
By the way, you still have not explained how the Egyptians are 'cacasian' but the Nubians aren't even though they are next door to Egypt and also are not Sub-Saharan.
By the way, I notice even idiotic Kemp is unable to address the simple topic of this thread and only makes a stupid side-remark. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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