--Because the Greeks wrote "Hekipto" - the Egyptian name for Memphis - as "Aegyptos"- all of a sudden "Egypt" becomes a "Greek" originated word!
--then there's the gymnastics involved in giving a Greek origin to an African region "Ethosh" by inventing a word that supposedly meant "Land of the Burnt Faces"; I could never find this expression in either ancient or modern Greek. The earlier Western scholars- early 1900s - had always maintained that the etymology of Ethiopia was from the Egyptian "Ethosh"
--Now, we come to our present topic where again, a Greek or a Roman origin for the name for the African continent is always put forth...Usually, it's something like "the Afer people(s), there were many of these groups throughout northern Africa..." or having something to do with "dust". Never mind that there is never the culmination of the demonstration as to where did the other part of the name "ka" originate; it's certainly neither Greek nor Latin; (People + "ka"), (Dust + "ka")...it's all nonsense, of course.
There is no linguistic gymnastics nor any contrived methods needed here in order to demonstrate that the Ancient Egyptian expression "Afrikah" is the etymology of the name of the Continent - Africa/Afrika...
Afer, Afre, Afri -
The most obvious approach in solving for "Ka" would be the Ancient African concept of "Ka" or genius; or the other obvious one of "kau" for highlands. Although both would seem obvious choices, and neither would be invalid, it is really the more simple "kah" for earth or soil.
kah -
Standard usage for the expression "hot earth" would be "KahAfri" or "KahAfer", but if you wish to say "heat of the earth" it would be "Afri kah" which is absolutely more plausible than the lame effort to make "Africa" derive from the Greek "(a)phrike" - land without cold!
The etymology of the name "Africa" is from the Ancient Egyptian expression "Afrikah" - the heat of the earth! ...absolutely...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
^ And why is the above correct, and all of the below incorrect?
was the name of several peoples who dwelt in North Africa near Carthage. Their name is usually connected with Phoenician afar, "dust", but a 1981 theory[5] has asserted that it stems from a Berber word ifri or Ifran meaning "cave", in reference to cave dwellers[6]. Africa or Ifri or Afer[6] is name of Banu Ifran from Algeria and Tripolitania (Berber Tribe of Yafran) [7].
In Roman times, Carthage became the capital of Africa Province, which also included the coastal part of modern Libya. The Roman suffix "-ca" denotes "country or land".[8] The later Muslim kingdom of Ifriqiya, modern-day Tunisia, also preserved a form of the name.
Other etymologies that have been postulated for the ancient name "Africa":
* the 1st century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (Ant. 1.15) asserted that it was named for Epher, grandson of Abraham according to Gen. 25:4, whose descendants, he claimed, had invaded Libya. * Latin word aprica ("sunny") mentioned by Isidore of Seville in Etymologiae XIV.5.2. * the Greek word aphrike, meaning "without cold." This was proposed by historian Leo Africanus (1488–1554), who suggested the Greek word phrike (φρίκη, meaning "cold and horror"), combined with the privative prefix "a-", thus indicating a land free of cold and horror. * Massey, in 1881, derived an etymology from the Egyptian af-rui-ka, "to turn toward the opening of the Ka." The Ka is the energetic double of every person and "opening of the Ka" refers to a womb or birthplace. Africa would be, for the Egyptians, "the birthplace."[9] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa#EtymologyPosts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Why the wiki's "other etymologies" are incorrect has been explained a few times, they're all just folk etymologies, as is the afri qahh etymology presented in this thread.
Josephus' etymology is silly. Aprica has no Latin root but is borrowed from Greek. Aphrikę has no Greek root. Af-rui-ka is a made up word not from an AE text.
Africa at the first only referred to what today is Tunisia. The Afri (various spellings) met the Phoenicians when they arrived. Lands are often named after the people inhabiting them and so the Phoenicians called the territory after the people they found living there.
quote:Originally posted by rasol: ^ And why is the above correct, and all of the below incorrect?
Etymology: The origin and development of a word, traced back as far as possible in time, usually by the methods of comparative linguistics.
This law is constantly violated or ignored by Western 'word doctors' who seem to insist that space and time be restricted to Europe; everything limited to the northern shores of the Mediterranean...take this for example:
Wikipedia's take on the etymology of "Libya"
quote:In Greek, the tribesmen were called Libues, Latinised to Libyes (with Greek u transcribed as y in Latin). Their country became Libuā (or in Classical Attic Libuē with the standard Attic sound change ā > ē), Latinised Libya. But in ancient Greece the term had a broader meaning, encompassing all of North Africa west of Egypt (see Ancient Libya).
However, if we extend our research back as far as possible in time, we find in Ancient Egyptian, which predates both Greek and Latin by millenniums:
Lebu = Libya, Libyans
And for lack of historical evidence we stop here while realizing that this word - which means "people who live by the river/sea shore" - probably predates its usage in Ancient Egypt; i.e., the Saharan complex, "Punt", Central Africa?...
There is absolutely no difference in the approach to the etymology of "Africa"
But simply being Euro-centric in its interpretation does not, in and of itself, prove that the conclusion reached is a false one; but etymology refers to the earliest recorded form of a word. ... NOTE: There is no 'c' in Egyptian; the Egyptian name 'Cleopatra' is written Kleopatra and the Egyptian spelling of 'Africa' would be Afrika; placing the words into their proper parent-child order you get:
Wonoufre >> Onofrio
Lebu >> Libues
Hekipto >> Aigyptos
Kleopatra >> Cleopatra
Afrikah >> Africa
I have presented my evidence but it's your decision - You make the call...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
For whatever it's worth Massey should be quoted as he wrote not only by Finch's clean interpretation.
quote: Au in the Egyptian means the oldest, the primordial. The word Au is the Egyptian "was," and the Au-rut means the race that was, the first and oldest race of men. Au is a modified form of Af. Both Au and Af signify born of. The name of Africa is derived from this root af or au. The tongue of Egypt tells us that Af-rui-ka is the inner land, born of, literally the birth-place. They knew of no other. Thus the Au-ritae were the Af-ritae, people of the birth- place in Africa. But Af in Egyptian has a still earlier form in Kaf, and the Af-ritae become the primordial Kaf-ritae. The Kaffirs have preserved the primal shape of the word signifying the first the embryonic, aboriginal root race of men. The Kaffirs likewise keep the true African colour of the original Ruti or race.
quote:From the Wiki: * Massey, in 1881, derived an etymology from the Egyptian af-rui-ka, "to turn toward the opening of the Ka." The Ka is the energetic double of every person and "opening of the Ka" refers to a womb or birthplace. Africa would be, for the Egyptians, "the birthplace."[9][/i] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa#Etymology
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
But is rebu an Egyptian word or one added into their lexicon from the Libu peoples themselves? And in the label Lebue did the Greeks borrow from the inhabitants of the land or from their neighbor Egypt?
BTW: Cleopatra is a Greek word written Κλεοπŕτρα, notice the K.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Wikipedia's take on the etymology of "Libya"
quote:In Greek, the tribesmen were called Libues, Latinised to Libyes (with Greek u transcribed as y in Latin). Their country became Libuā (or in Classical Attic Libuē with the standard Attic sound change ā > ē), Latinised Libya. But in ancient Greece the term had a broader meaning, encompassing all of North Africa west of Egypt (see Ancient Libya).
However, if we extend our research back as far as possible in time, we find in Ancient Egyptian, which predates both Greek and Latin by millenniums:
Lebu = Libya, Libyans
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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#1 ) the actual word/expression is 'Afrikah' and not 'afri qahh'; we know this precisely because the word for earth, soil is preserved in coptic and it is 'kah' - thus the Egyptian expression "Afrikah" means exactly what it says; no need for acrobatics or other contrivances...and it is as 'folksy' as "RmnK" (People of Black; Egyptians).
#2) also, there are other valid Egyptian expressions such as
Afrika - heat of the Ka
Afrikau - heat of the highlands
#3) The Greeks received their education in Egypt, not in Libya, or Carthage...Egypt was the Fountainhead - thus you have alKhemi (alchemy) and not alLibues...
Lebou
There are a people living in Senegal called the Lebou and whose name means "fishermen or people who live by the sea." So what do we have in Egyptian?
"r" or "l" is a preposition meaning for example - to;against;at
"bo" in Egyptian and in Coptic means "canal" or "stream"
"l_bo" means "at the stream"
"l_bou" means "those at the stream"
Thus it is accurate to state that Lebou in the Egyptian language would mean and be consistent with "people who live by the sea (water)." Would the Lebu then be tribes living along the coast of northern Africa, the Tehenu, the Tamehu, the Meshwesh?...
Kleopatra - all of them I thru VI
First off, let us not forget that:
quote:--Martin Bernal stumbled on the fact that as many as twenty to twenty-five percent of Greek words have Egyptian roots; and even more surprising that only fifty percent of Greek words were European in origin...
The Ethiopian renders this name as 'Aklaubatra' which would in Egyptian be 'Aklaupatra...
At first glance, I could recognize the last two words: pat & ra pat - in Ancient Egyptian and modern Egyptian = 'foot'
ra - in Ancient Egyptian and modern Egyptian = work, act, action, to do
but call it laziness on my part or just sheer indifference, I never have, and still haven't looked up "Qlaw" - the Ethiopian/Egyptian 'Aklau part - so please, would someone else here look this up for me...
But, and probably because, I already know that the roots of this name is Egyptian...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Kah isn't qahh. Your source uses the latter. K uses a slightly different set organs than Q. In English this why Q is always folled by a U and is throatier in pronunciation.
Nor is H the same as HH (better represented as a H with a diacritic dot underneath it). HH carries a very audible breathy sound whereas terminal H has no sound.
Thus KAH and QAHH aren't pronuounced the same.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: kah -
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Kah isn't qahh. Your source uses the latter. K uses a slightly different set organs than Q. In English this why Q is always folled by a U and is throatier in pronunciation...
posted
For some unknown cause you left the Budge reference out of my quoted reply. I'm restoring it for clarity.
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Kah isn't qahh. Your source uses the latter. K uses a slightly different set organs than Q. In English this why Q is always folled by a U and is throatier in pronunciation...
posted
The Greeks colonized Libya (Cyrene) where they met the people and the name they had for themselves, Libu.
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
#3) The Greeks received their education in Egypt, not in Libya, or Carthage...Egypt was the Fountainhead - thus you have alKhemi (alchemy) and not alLibues...
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I don't know. I just find it hard that a people so intelligent knew not the difference between a mere stream and the massive sea so as to use the former when they meant the latter.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Lebou
There are a people living in Senegal called the Lebou and whose name means "fishermen or people who live by the sea." So what do we have in Egyptian?
"r" or "l" is a preposition meaning for example - to;against;at
"bo" in Egyptian and in Coptic means "canal" or "stream"
"l_bo" means "at the stream"
"l_bou" means "those at the stream"
Thus it is accurate to state that Lebou in the Egyptian language would mean and be consistent with "people who live by the sea (water)." Would the Lebu then be tribes living along the coast of northern Africa, the Tehenu, the Tamehu, the Meshwesh?...
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I don't know how one can possibly know what language the roots of a name come from before spending time to do the necessary research.
Being a Macedonian/Greek name, there must of been many more Cleopatras other than the seven of Egyptian record.
Cleopatra is a name seemingly compounded of κλέος and πέτρα but I really don't know.
Do you know of any Egyptians named Kleopatra before the rise of the foreign origin Ptolemy founded dynasty?
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Kleopatra - all of them I thru VI
First off, let us not forget that:
quote:--Martin Bernal stumbled on the fact that as many as twenty to twenty-five percent of Greek words have Egyptian roots; and even more surprising that only fifty percent of Greek words were European in origin...
The Ethiopian renders this name as 'Aklaubatra' which would in Egyptian be 'Aklaupatra...
At first glance, I could recognize the last two words: pat & ra pat - in Ancient Egyptian and modern Egyptian = 'foot'
ra - in Ancient Egyptian and modern Egyptian = work, act, action, to do
but call it laziness on my part or just sheer indifference, I never have, and still haven't looked up "Qlaw" - the Ethiopian/Egyptian 'Aklau part - so please, would someone else here look this up for me...
But, and probably because, I already know that the roots of this name is Egyptian...
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
My question that has never been answered is where in Egyptian texts can we observe "Africa" signifying any reference to a human occupied place? Just because phonemic parts exist in the language doesn't that's how the Egyptians used it.
Another etymology I've heard is Afu-ra-ka (the soul of the flesh of ra). Again, no textual substantiation and without any primary documentation that would put the terms together in the context that you posit, all we can say is that's your hypothesis that has yet to be proven.
You may very well be correct, but you have not supplied any real usage by ancient Egyptians so we can see the context in which the combination of the terms are used.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: My question that has never been answered is where in Egyptian texts can we observe "Africa" signifying any reference to a human occupied place? Just because phonemic parts exist in the language doesn't that's how the Egyptians used it.
Another etymology I've heard is Afu-ra-ka (the soul of the flesh of ra). Again, no textual substantiation and without any primary documentation that would put the terms together in the context that you posit, all we can say is that's your hypothesis that has yet to be proven.
You may very well be correct, but you have not supplied any real usage by ancient Egyptians so we can see the context in which the combination of the terms are used.
I couldn't agree with you more. Finding the expression "Afrikah", or "Afrika", or "Aferka", etc. in an Egyptian text would be the logical next step to pursue. The idea which I posited was to put the search in its most logical place - Egypt.
A collective endeavor
You probably are aware of the fact that it was not Diop, but rather, in this case, one of his students that found the glyph "Kemut" - Kem + the determinative for people, to which Diop gave credit for this discovery. On this very forum, a problem which had vexed me for sometime was the undefined glyph under "k", where the word "km" is followed by the determinative of a man doing something with his mouth, when almost nonchalantly, Whatbox pointed out that this glyph meant "to behave in a seemly manner" which I then found under the "q" listings in the dictionary- qem = kem - we learn from each other and I am almost certain that one of us here, probably through serendipity, will discover this textual document to which you referred to...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I have always wondered about the etymology of 'Ethiopia' or 'Ethosh', especially considering that the earliest use of the name by the Greeks was a designation of Canaan or the ancient Levant!
As for 'Africa/Afrika' that's a tougher call since there are so many variations and uses of it going back to at least Classical Times. I really wouldn't be surprised if it was derived from African natives, be it Afer, Egyptian, or whomever. There is no getting away from the fact that Lebu as used by the Egyptians to describe their western neighbors is the first and earliest variation of 'Libyan'.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ I don't believe this, because there are no hot highlands in Africa. Highlands of Africa are cool, not hot, when compared to the Nile Valley.
I think you don't understand this - which is why you think it makes sense - but it would not have to the Kemetians.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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^ I don't believe this, because there are no hot highlands in Africa. Highlands of Africa are cool, not hot, when compared to the Nile Valley.
I think you don't understand this - which is why you think it makes sense - but it would not have to the Kemetians.
Where have you been on this one, rasol???
I have since advanced the idea within this topic that the 'ka' in 'Afrika' was more likely a reference to the ground or soil...(and as Asar has correctly suggested, we need a textual sample from the Egyptian in order to be conclusive.)
However, I have also posited that the other forms of 'ka' are not therefore invalid.
I think the problem which you have is that you think in your own terms of reference and not those of the Kememou. For example, when you see the word 'highlands' you have shown that you use as a reference example - the Ethiopian highlands! This is equivalent to the use of the Alps as an example...
In any event, this discussion is not about geography and the weather...
Here's some Kememou words that express their ideas regarding the use of 'ka'...
>> KAIE, KOI
>> KAA, KAKA, KA, KAEIE, KA
>> (PROPER NOUNS) KA, KAU, KA, KAIE, KAKA
...AS ONE CAN SEE, THE MANY POSSIBLE USAGES OF 'AFRIKA' AND ITS MEANINGS ARE BOUNDLESS! AND, SOMEONE'S GONNA FIND AT LEAST ONE INSTANCE OF A TEXTUAL USAGE... Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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