posted
I've found two really good videos on youtube about the attempt by recent Arab rulers (with the aid of the colonial British) to try to erase what was Black history amoung the Swahili people and say it was Arab history. This gross historical revisionism lives on to this day and has been oft repeated by so-called professionals and teachers. At first I thought it was a Basil Davidson video...but it's not.
posted
Why would u think that Swahili is not Arab and that the Zanj or Zanzibar of Swahili is not of the same blood as the Zanj in Yemen or even the bloodline within Oman. Swahili is Arabian just as Arabian is African/Swahili. There is a city in Yemen called Zinji.
As a North African i understand what u are talking about but once a african becomes Muslim in North,Northeast,and East africa it becomes Muslim arab history. Take for instance Sudan,Eritrea,Somalia these countries are taught in arab countries as being arabs not to mention all of the NOrth african countries as well
Posts: 410 | From: Al-Ard | Registered: Jun 2009
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Yeah,but the peoples of Senegal @ something like 90% Muslim are not thought of as Arabs and neither are the 99.9% people of Mali.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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I guess the Arab identity kicks in when original languages are displaced by Arabic and there are enough people who claim a genealogical--usually fabricated--link with Arabia or even the Prophet himself. Like a lot of blacks who--during colonial times--who claimed to be British, French or Portugese. They often added some dubious white genealogy to explain their European names.
Same game, different name!
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: Why would u think that Swahili is not Arab and that the Zanj or Zanzibar of Swahili is not of the same blood as the Zanj in Yemen or even the bloodline within Oman. Swahili is Arabian just as Arabian is African/Swahili. There is a city in Yemen called Zinji.
As a North African i understand what u are talking about but once a african becomes Muslim in North,Northeast,and East africa it becomes Muslim arab history. Take for instance Sudan,Eritrea,Somalia these countries are taught in arab countries as being arabs not to mention all of the NOrth african countries as well
That's due to Arabization and an unwillingness by Arab rulers to see Blacks as their equals.
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Like a lot of blacks who--during colonial times--who claimed to be British, French or Portugese. They often added some dubious white genealogy to explain their European names.
I'd have to take it that this could only have taken place in the respective European countries named. What are your sources for this history?
It's worthwhile noting the distinction between the aforementioned European entities and the Arabic one. Unlike the former, the latter is not a nation. Moreover, primarily for religious reasons -- namely Islam, have certain sections of Africans claimed fabricated Arab genealogy -- another possible distinction to be made here!
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I totally agree Takruri Swahili is no were near close to Arabic i speak arabic and when i hear swahili it sounds like kenyan language.
Not all africans fabricate Arab genelogy not those of Ethiopia,Sudan,Somalia,Djbouti,Eritrea these countries have had close links with the arab world before the Advent of Islam but this doesnt make them arabized as they still keep to there native culture and languages. I am not claiming that those countries are arab but a few of there population have Hashimite lineage.
What i dont understand is why does everyone only look at one side of the lineage of africans who claim Arab decent why does the other side out weight the African side.
Posts: 410 | From: Al-Ard | Registered: Jun 2009
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Could be because they're patrilineal and their father's father's father ... was an "Arab" or could be because of religious prestige in the case of Islam or socio-economic/political prestige in the case of European colonialism.
But I think the African side of the picture is acknowledged and easily seen in the face of an individual. True, in some cases those with an African 'black' face deny being African at all.
That just boils down to shame based on ignorance of African accomplishments and buy in to concepts of historylessness, lack of innovation, no society ever above tribal level, etc., when it comes to inner Africa.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Since nobody claimed such, you are merely engaging in strawman. What is claimed however, is that sections of Africans are known to claim fabricated, or else exaggerated, Arab genealogy.
quote: not those of Ethiopia,Sudan,Somalia,Djbouti,Eritrea these countries have had close links with the arab world before the Advent of Islam but this doesnt make them arabized as they still keep to there native culture and languages.
Indeed. It looks like "you" have a vested interest in claiming "Arab" genealogy for many of the countries you named, but the peoples of those areas [except for perhaps in Sudan] themselves by and large do NOT claim such genealogy, even by your own admission. So why bring them up? Even in Sudan, a sizable portion of its citizens do NOT identify as Arabs.
quote: I am not claiming that those countries are arab but a few of there population have Hashimite lineage.
Obviously gene flow has occurred, in both directions across the Red Sea. Some of this is more recent, dating back to the spread of Islam and associated Arab intrusions; others are far more ancient, and even predate the ethnogenesis of "Arab" as a socio-ethnic identity. So one has to be careful not to confuse gene flow from across the Red Sea as necessarily "Arab" ancestry.
quote: What i dont understand is why does everyone only look at one side of the lineage of africans who claim Arab decent why does the other side out weight the African side.
Another strawman. My advice is that your time is better spent addressing what's specifically been said, and not what hasn't.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:I'd have to take it that this could only have taken place in the respective European countries named. What are your sources for this history?
It happened in places like the so-called Portugese territories such as Angola, Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau. The same too for Cape Verde. In the Portugese territories there were the asimilado populations who saw themselves as Portugese--with their Portugese names, Catholic religion and their preference for the Portugese language.
In the French territories the French citizenship was conferred on those Senegalese from St. Louis[capital of colonial Senegal] who were seen as assimile'--with their French names, French clothing, Christian religion and perhaps some amounts of French ancestry. These were people who actually believed in "nos ancetres les Gaulois". And don't forget the British territories where Britain was seen as "the mother country", and murderous imperial monarchs like Victoria was seen as "our Queen and mother". There was also Empire Day in the colonies where the the colonised were conditioned to sing with gusro "Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves, Britons, never, never shall be slaves".
Conditions haven't changed that much but at least they don't sing that song colonial ditty anymore. But Africa is still dotted with defiling colonial names like Avenue Pompidou, Brazzaville, Lugard Avenue--all glorifying the pale invader.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: Why would u think that Swahili is not Arab and that the Zanj or Zanzibar of Swahili is not of the same blood as the Zanj in Yemen or even the bloodline within Oman. Swahili is Arabian just as Arabian is African/Swahili. There is a city in Yemen called Zinji.
As a North African i understand what u are talking about but once a african becomes Muslim in North,Northeast,and East africa it becomes Muslim arab history. Take for instance Sudan,Eritrea,Somalia these countries are taught in arab countries as being arabs not to mention all of the NOrth african countries as well
Somalis and Eritreans are not Arab.
Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Never said that Somalis or Eritreans were arab.
In the Arab i see the Horn of African Look Yemeni,Omani,Iraqi,Saudi they look similar to Horn of Africans.
Posts: 410 | From: Al-Ard | Registered: Jun 2009
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Henry Louis Gates did a TV Special some while back exploring the beliefs and customs of the Swahili where he perceived a similar dilemma. He writes in his travel diary:
quote:However much Western histories and travel literature may have contributed to obscuring the African dimension of Swahili identity, an astonishing proportion of the effort, as I discover on this journey, has been shouldered by the Swahili themselves. Swahili self-understanding is enormously complex and has continuously adapted itself to the winds of change in culture and power that have blown along this coast for two thousand years. The explanations of identity I heard sometimes seemed disingenuous to a black man from North America.
^The end comment seems to be at the core of the problem. What should be unquestioned is that no matter what SOME modern Swahili use to identify themselves, their ancestors looked the same as they do now and did not share the same identity, hence identities change but lineage does not. Africans are African and don't stop being so because some choose to stagnate themselves in delusion. Ibn Battuta is among the first to give a physical description of the Swahili. Ibn Battuta had extensive contacts with Arabs and I'm sure would not have negelected to mention if the Swahili fit into this group, but no, he calls them Zanj. Note: Kulwa (as most know) is a Swahili town.
quote:"We stayed one night in this island [Mombasa], and then pursued our journey to Kulwa, which is a large town on the coast. The majority of its inhabitants are Zanj, jet-black in colour, and with tattoo marks on their faces. I was told by a merchant that the town of Sufala lies a fortnight's journey [south] from Kulwa and that gold dust is brought to Sufala from Yufi in the country of the Limis, which is a month's journey distant from it. Kulwa is a very fine and substantially built town, and all its buildings are of wood. Its inhabitants are constantly engaged in military expeditions, for their country is contiguous to the heathen Zanj."
People like Horton and Chami, studying archaeological field sites on the Swahili coast, already answered the question of who the Swahili were as well. They were a Bantu people as they are today.
Kimaryo writes:
quote:Chami (1998) using materials from recent archaeological surveys and excavations in the central coast of Tanzania asserted the existence of Bantu settlements along the coast as early as the first five centuries of the first millennium. He continued that the Bantu settlements evolved between the 6th and 10th century with changing trading opportunities, new technologies, and population growth giving rise to a new form of coastal urbanisation that spread to the northern and southern coasts of East Africa. According to Chami therefore, the early urbanisation along the Kenyan northern coast was influenced by the Bantu urbanisation in the central coast of Tanzania during the second half of the first millennium. The findings from recent archaeological excavations indeed suggest that the inhabitants of early settlements along the East African coast during the first millennium were Africans. However, what have remained unresolved are the conflicting claims about where the early African urbanisation along the East African coast started and its subsequent spreading to other parts of the coast. The main argument so far has been on whether it originated in the northern Kenyan coast or the central Tanzanian coast by Cushitic and Bantu speaking people respectively.
So in other words, it comes down to semantics. Based on set criteria, the Swahili are easily identifiable and there should be no serious debate as to who they were and are.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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It's the same as on the western side of the continent..folks trying to find outside scource, for The origin of African people or civilizations..Btw Havn't heard from you in quite awhile Sundjata.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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^Yea.. Decided to take summer classes and I'm on the semester system, so summer school is three times as intense. I basically had no time for anything outside of school and work, but thankfully that's over now. Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: Why would u think that Swahili is not Arab and that the Zanj or Zanzibar of Swahili is not of the same blood as the Zanj in Yemen or even the bloodline within Oman. Swahili is Arabian just as Arabian is African/Swahili. There is a city in Yemen called Zinji.
As a North African i understand what u are talking about but once a african becomes Muslim in North,Northeast,and East africa it becomes Muslim arab history. Take for instance Sudan,Eritrea,Somalia these countries are taught in arab countries as being arabs not to mention all of the NOrth african countries as well
Swahili is an African Bantu people and an African Bantu language. There are words that are Arab in origin but all languages have parts of their language that is borrowed from others even English. Swahili doesn't have anything to do with being an Arab or Arabs, and Swahili comes from the Congo.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: Never said that Somalis or Eritreans were arab.
In the Arab i see the Horn of African Look Yemeni,Omani,Iraqi,Saudi they look similar to Horn of Africans.
That is not because the African has "Arab" in them. It is actually the other way around. Those Yemenis,Omanis, Iraqis, and Saudis are more likely mixed with the indigenous populations of those lands who were nothing other than black asiatic groups similar in look to what you see in East Africa.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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