quote:Originally posted by Clint-: Where exactly in the Middle East?
There's too much overlap between AEs and AHs (Ancient Hebrews) in my head, can someone please clarify?
Exact locations are hard to place. The english and french cannot place the exact origin of their ancestors in eura-asia.
But we can tell you that from the preponderance of evidence, it is clear and irrefutable that there was much contact, exchange, demic diffusion between nile valley and west africa.
Actually the tropical forests of west africa was sparsely populated until about 1000 years ago with the so-called Bantu migrations.
The story is every so-called african tribes south of the sahara is one of migration. Usually from the east...
Why people would chose to disregard the story and evidence of African people about their own origins is something that is close to condescension. I find it really petty and pathetic when such hubris manifests in some little arrogant so-called scholar.
Lion!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote: They say; If a Zanji and a Zanji women marry and their children remain after puberty in Iraq, they come to rule the roost thanks to their numbers, endurance, knowledge, and efficiency. On the other hand, the child of an Indian and an Indian woman, or of a Greek and a Greek woman, or of a Khurasani and a Khurasani women remain among you and in your country in the same condition as their fathers and mothers.
The Yorubas of Nigeria claim they are from Middle East. Wole Soyinka is a nobel prize winner in literature. He is Yoruba...he knows he is from middle east. I figure you should give some credit to his intelligence, eh?
There are many kemitic words which appear in Yoruba language. There are numerous Yoruba gods which are the exact equivalent of kemitic gods; there are Yoruba artefacts which have their exact copies in the kemitic civilization. Would you put all these down to coincidence? Do you even believe that these facts exist at all?
If you need picture evidence, I will be glad to provide. But to start with, take a look at the gods posted by WhatBox above...
I will be back.
Lion!
The only Nigerians I've heard of who claim Middle Eastern origins are Muslim clerics who claim Arab descent and even Ashraf (Prophet Muhammad's family)!!
All Nigerians I know educated about their own history (Yoruba, Igbo, etc) make no such claims on "eastern" origins. They may point out Saharan origins i.e. Western Sahara when it was green. Such Saharan commonality with Egyptians may explain the similiarties but nothing more!
You may not realize it, but all you're doing is insulting Yoruba/Nigerian/West African history and culture to postulate foreign (Eastern/Egyptian) influences or foundings!!
This reminds me of the claims that the Eredo ramparts of Nigeria are due to the Queen of Sheba! Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Emotional mudslinging ("my" European writers) does nothing in building a case for the route and era that Bes supposedly made passage from Ancient Egypt to become WhoeverThatIs in "medieval"(?) Yoruba. Name and date of said statue still not provided). Gods, ntjrw, cannot travel unless carried by their worshippers.
This is the Egyptology forum not the Ancient Egypt forum. We expect in submitting an idea that its specifics and particulars will hold up to close scrutiny. We are not about to replace European hogwash with fringe Afrocentric swill.
Our children and grandchildren and their greatgrandchildren deserve must and will have a replicable and authenticated historical database for themselves and the world's purview.
There are trade routes from the Middle Nile Valley to the Central Sahel that have been in use since the Khartoum Mesolithic. A route from the Lower Nile Valley to the vicinity of Gao has also been traversed for at least two millenia. I would have hoped for a supporter of Bes from Egypt to Yoruba to at least mention one of them or some other documented trade route as a proposed path.
I also hope you see that Yemen is not Canaan and neither is Egypt and that this contradictory evidence does nothing to bolster the case of a relatively modern Yoruba statue being one and the same as the AE's Bes.
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: The wing of a bat and the wing of a bird makes neither of them of close relation or immediate ancestry. Analysis and examination informs us otherwise.
More analysis and examination of the Yoruba art piece would please me if you please to inform.
A thousand years in time and a thousand miles in distance separates these two sculptures. Can you expand on their supposed connection and on the structure presumably bridging them?
And the whatever is the off-spring of a snake must be long like the snake...
Early African writers almost unanimously agreed that the Yorubas were from nile valley.
Let's start with Samuel Johnson's book on the origin of the Yorubas. Samuel Johnson was a Christian cleric of the Anglican Church. he was Yoruba by origin and he wrote the first book in English language that explored the history of the Yorubas. He concludes that they are from nile valley but had crossed over from Yemen under the leadership of one Lamurudu which is synonymous with the name Nimrod. S. Johnson wrote his book in the late 19th century.
There is a book written by Sultan Bello of Sokoto, Nigeria in mid-19th century on various groups that made up what is now Nigeria. He posits the origin of the Yorubas as Canaan. Sultan Bello was a Caliph of an indigenous African Islamic Empire (one of the last vestiges of the Moors), a Berber/Fulani by descent. He ruled over a vast Empire of close to 30 million people stretching from Senegal to Lake Chad. He was an accomplished researcher and scholar who produced about 100 books in his life time. he based his research on original hadn written Moorish books from Cordoba, Fez and Cairo.
I accept the authority of these eminent fathers of Africa more than I will ever accept your European writers who tell you that Africans are confused in their claims. Those Europeans are illiterates in African studies and history since they barely understand the languages, culture or the nuances that come with them.
Google the names of those two men and research for yourself.
More to come.
Lion!
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
This, of course, is just European colonial propaganda being fed back and accepted by the Africans themselves
On the opposite side of the continent
"EASTERN AFRICA AND THE INDIAN OCEAN TO 1800: REVIEWING RELATIONS IN HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE. Authors" by Pouwels, Randall
quote: As far as actual Arabization of the coast goes, evidence presented below suggests it began after the sixteenth century and reached its zenith in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.[108] The subtleties of this gradual shift are apparent in how the concept of a "civilized" person gradually altered. Until the nineteenth century, notions of the civilized person (mungwana) centered on the ideal of the free, cultured, indigenous townsperson who was thoroughly schooled in local language, tradition, and forms of Islam. There is little in the evidence to suggest there existed any specific association between local notions about what this meant and being or living "like an Arab" (ustaarabu), an idea that characterized nineteenth-century life.[109]
quote: You may not realize it, but all you're doing is insulting Yoruba/Nigerian/West African history and culture to postulate foreign (Eastern/Egyptian) influences or foundings!!
Djehuti-Mahn
Herein lies the Achilles Heel of your argument, and also of others here, who take such a defensive posture vis-a-vis human historical developements:
Erroneous Notions of Autonomous sproutings:
a) Greece was the 'miraculous' achievement of the peoples of Greece -No it wasn't...- "You may not realize it, but all you're doing is insulting Greek history and culture to postulate foreign (Eastern/Egyptian) influences or foundings!!"
b) Great Zimbabwe sprang miraculously from the lush hills of Zimbabwe, the sole achievement of the Shona people! -No it wasn't...- "You may not realize it, but all you're doing is insulting Shona history and culture to postulate foreign (Eastern/Egyptian) influences or foundings!!"
...and on and on with this simplistic, inaccurate nonsense...
I mean, did the Kememou start to write spontaneously in hieroglyphics or were they not introduced into Kemi by the Anu and attributed to Djehuti? And do you suppose perhaps that these glyphs' origins can be traced back to the Saharan Complex or to Pwonit; somewhere in TaNoute (Africa)...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
^ Strawman arguments. Give credit where credit is due. If it is proven with undeniable evidence that there is foreign influence then so be it. This is true enough about Greece but it is NOT the case with Nigerian culture responsible for Onicha and Eredo and Shona culture which were responsible for Great Zimbabwe! There is NO evidence of Egyptian origins for these feats! As for your example of Hieroglyphs. It may have been invented further south in Ta-Seti but it still does not change the fact that it was a Nile Valley innovation given to another Nile Valley people!
Now PROVE Nile Valley innovations for the cause of Guinea forest African achievents!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Strawman arguments. Give credit where credit is due. If it is proven with undeniable evidence that there is foreign influence then so be it. This is true enough about Greece but it is NOT the case with Nigerian culture responsible for Onicha and Eredo and Shona culture which were responsible for Great Zimbabwe! There is NO evidence of Egyptian origins for these feats! As for your example of Hieroglyphs. It may have been invented further south in Ta-Seti but it still does not change the fact that it was a Nile Valley innovation given to another Nile Valley people!
Now PROVE Nile Valley innovations for the cause of Guinea forest African achievents!
I think many people are misguided in their thoughts and faith in African people. I am not sure how many on this list are actually involved in "priestly" circles but in the priestly circles you often here about some of the Yoruba people migrations from Egypt in ancient times. You also hear about migrations to Egypt before and during pharaonic times.
It is an insult to Africans intelligence to think that during 3000 years of alleged pharonic history that no west Africans went to Egypt, studied, lived, had families, went back home to visit etc. YET we are to believe that Mansa Musa travelled all the way to Mecca with several hundred men and back in his life time? Indigineous Blacks can't do it until we encounter Arabs?
This is not a coincidence:
Benin
Cameroon
Nigeria 1300 AD
Egypt
The features are what matters. Let's examine them:
1) all (with the acception of the one with no bottom) has bowed legs 2) all have the signature belly rope/beads? 3) all (with the acception of the Cameroonian one) has a skull pendant or necklace 4) usually all of these types of figures have their tongue sticking out. Only one above does not (the one from Benin) 5) usually they have the signature beard as well.
As someone who knows African wisdom centers intimately, "artists" do not carve items like this for the sake of "art." All positions of legs, hands, all necklaces, mouth positions, etc. mean something and are only revealed in initiation circles. No anthropoligists, unless initiatiated, can tell what these things mean. I can give you one clue, anything dealing with "bones" (the skull pendant) deals with Ancestors in African spiritual societies.
Someone has to explain how osmosis is the cause for all of these "coincidences" in the art work in these different regions. When one does further research you will find that "Bes" is all over the world and is consistant with oral traditions concerning the "dwarf" people who were going around spreading spiritual concepts. It's these 'myths' that later inspired your stories of "asar" going around teaching civilization throughout the land. Remember Bes is Heru before he was Heru the Elder. Heru is another form of Osiris. They are all the same entity. The "myths" are giving you history.
Somone has to explain how the Igbo people made it to Scandanavia and Ireland and Greece (with other Niger-Congo speakers) but somehow missed the Nile Valley? The following article lays to rest the notion that west Africans in ancient times were not travelling far distances and teaching spiritual concepts. I uploaded the article to my site:
OGAM STONE INSCRIPTIONS AND IGBO COLUMN-WRITING: A COMPARISON By Catherine Obianuju Acholonu
"Ogam (also spelt Ogham) was the earliest form of writing and communication known in the British Isles and in Scandinavia , where ancient traditions insist that it was introduced by the Druids, who, according to the indigenous traditions of the Isles, were[bold] Black African dwarfs and magicians.[/bold]"
Do you think those "lepricons" were a figment of their imagination? The following lend support to the probability that "West Africans" (including the Yoruba) may have been in the Nile Valley during ancient times as these areas are just outside its bounds.
And then read my article on the African superhighway of Wisdom for a cultural perspective on why all of this ties in together (and remember the details of the article of the Ogam script)
Sometimes it's not about "trade" for goods. African people travelled to teach and to gain knowledge. That is very hard for Westerners to understand because we think we know it all and that other people don't have anything to teach us. We think that travelling just for the sake of knowledge is something proposterous and can't be the endeavors of primitive African people.
Well African people do and have been doing it for thousands upon thousands of years and to this very day, as we speak, there are people walking, travelling across Africa getting teachings from local masters all across the continent while people who don't know Africans argue on messageboards about what Africans are capable of.
I'm to believe that West Africans, people who to this date, travel along the African Super Highway of Wisdom just to learn Africa's secrets, in the time of the Pharaohs, a time of great learning, at the place where Egypt was the center of learning for the whole world at the time, never thought of, never contemplated for a second to go the Nile Valley to learn and teach.
Who is insulting Africans?
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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I wasn't lying. Colonialists wanted to associate Benin with human sacrifice and slavery in order to support the idea of Africa being the heart of darkness. It is very important to the colonialists to defile the name of Benin exactly because of it's influence. Either that or make it seem obscure and unimportant
"Benin proper" was never corrupted by the European slave trade. This is very important
The bold bellow illustrates the widespread use of the name "Benin" throughout Guinea
"The Slave Trade, Depopulation and Human Sacrifice in Benin History" by James D. Graham
quote: Further confusion about the extent of Benins slave trade results from the reports of slavers themselves who often defined Benin as the entire coastal area between Guinea and Angola, during the seventeenth century. Further refinements in the slavers definition of Benin had, by 1799, placed the Benin factory somewhere between Bonny and the Gold Coast, although no Liverpool slavers traded in the entire area during that particular year. Donnan points out that Benin often referred to the Bight of Benin, which included the Bight of Biafra, noting that when a narrower limit is intended it is usually the Bight of Biafra
Page 323
An overall view of the period, between 1486-1897, yields the conclusion that the European slave trade was seldom, if ever, of considerable importance to Benin proper Yet, looking over the entire period, the most stable exports from Benin proper seems to have been ivory, supplemented first by pepper, later by palm oil
"THE GREAT BENIN EMPIRE; A LEGACY OF AFRICAN CIVILIZATION" By: Nosakhare & AGHAZE Both are African historians/scholars at the University of Benin .
quote: The history of the great Benin Empire as a nation is the record of a state that was established 2300yrs before any contact was made with European inferior nation. The great Benin Empire made remarkable achievements in those pre-European years, in art, science, administration, technology, political organization, architectures, astronomy, town-planning e.t.c.
When the great Benin empire reached the zeniths of its power, it extended its boundaries and exercised power over all the west African lands bordering the entire stretch of the bight of Benin, from the mouth of the river Volta in the west and eastward to the present day Congo and to the delta of river Niger in the east e.g. Ghana, Republic of Benin, both across the borders of modern Nigeria. Onitsha on the Niger and many other cities such as Asaba, Agbor, Isele-Uku, Warri, Idah e.t.c. Many of these states and other cities owe their corporate existence to the ancient Benin Empire. The influence of the great Benin Empire was said to have even extended to the present day Sierra Leone in the west.
The legendary fame of the Great Benin empire was such that the name Benin had many meanings, e.g. there was Benin-city and Benin empire, Benin river close to the new Benin (Warri) and there is the bight of Benin and the Benin district comprising of Sapele and Warri. Beyond the Gulf of Benin, the great Benin Empire's legendary fame was indeed wide spread. Several European states heard about the empires might and civilized attitudes, many sought for it.
That a vast stretch of the West African coastline bears the name " BIGHT OF BENIN" is no accident of history. Even until these day, it quite evident and amazing how the cultural influence of the ancient Benin empire remains strong till today. An independent republic of former Dahomey in 1975 decided to change its name to the republic of Benin as a way of reconnecting its roots to Africa's once glorious kingdom. The republic of Togo on the other hand named some of her prestigious institutions after the great Benin empire e.g. Universite du Benin, Togo hotel du Benin e.t.c. President Gnassingbe Eyadema during his 1974 visit to Benin City openly stated that the Togolese people originated from the ancient Benin Empire. His open declaration was cardinal in the sense that it ended the historical dilemma that clouded the ancient Benin and present day Benin speaking Yoruba influence on many West African nations. The Political & Spiritual Purpose of the Holy Land nations. Today, the people of Onitsha across the Niger, the Isekiris, Urobos, Isian and Ijaws just to mention but a few all proudly trace their venerated royal lineages to the ancient Benin empire.
Lourenco Pinto, who captained a Portuguese ship that brought the so-called missionaries to Warri the ancient port of Benin in 1619, sent the below deposition to the Sacra Congregazione the instance of father Montelcone. " All the city of this African Empire are organized, large and harmonious. The streets run straight and as far as the eyes can see. The houses are large; especially those of the king, which is richly decorated and has, fine columns. The city is wealthy and industrious."
Before that period, the great Benin Empire had built a unique defensive wall around its principal cities. The magnitude and complexity of this great wall has qualified it to be entered in the Guinness Book of Records as the greatest earth moving work ever constructed by man. With an estimated total length in excess of 20.000km, the great Benin wall is the longest running military defensive network ever built by man.
Isn't it ironic that the people that once made up this ancient prestigious kingdom are now grouped along minority lines in the modern day Nigeria. No thanks to the British dubious invasion and subsequent amalgamation of over 200 ethnic nationalities that now make up one Nigeria.
Isn' t it sad that the name of this over 3000yrs old empire does not even appear on Nigeria map these days, instead towns like Ogbomosho and Lagos originally named Eko which was founded by Benin military leaders now represent the glory of Nigeria's ancient cities.
The marginalization and the dubious miss-interpretation of the great Benin Empire's history have to end. It is time for African scholars and historians to engage in the challenging and vital task of re-constructing Africa's unifying history. During this process, every element of all ancient African empires should be given due respect and honor, without exhibiting the contemporary tribalist and colonial mentality/education that is tearing African apart.
Fellow Africans, let us not forget that Africa is the past, the present and certainly the future.
posted
^ Yes, Benin was a great kingdom founded entirely by its inhabitants who are indigenous to that part of Africa. It takes more than some similarities in apotropaic statues or figures or hearsay of Yoruba priests claiming ancestors studying in Egypt!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
If one would pay attention to the dynamics of what's being said, one can clearly see what's going. Nobody ever claimed that ALL people from Benin or Yoruba land derive from ancient Egyptians. Why people keep defaulting to that faulty logic baffles me.
No one stated that one had to come from the Nile Valley to build a civilization. What the evidence and the oral history states is that some of the people and priesthoods came from the Nile Valley. The priest never say we "all" come from the Nile Valley.
The Kingdom of Benin comprises various different ethnic groups, just like ALL large kingdoms in Africa. For your statment to make any sense, you would have to prove conclusively that any and all cultures develop in isolation, with no contact or travel with any other people.
I posted an article where I sight African initiated scholars who talk about the African Super Highway of Wisdom. When confronted with this information, any and all arguments against African people not travelling and sharing lexical items, art and philosophical concepts is thrown out the window.
Even the most good hearted of us in search for truth in Africana history and culture think linearly like European people. We don't ask Africans nothing. We sit in our homes and read books and think we know about what goes on there and why people do what they do. History as a field of study is very myopic now-a-days because it treats populations as one-minded, singular organisms that move like a school of fish.
As if migration means everybody packs up and go. They believe the Egyptians just stopped practicing their culture because a white Roman said to close down the temples. Egyptologists think that the Egyptians just all died out or they honestly think the Arabs are "ancient" Egyptians. Black historians, trying to disassociate themselves with Afrocentricity, trying to "appear" objective often falls in the game by faulty logic.
Logic test 1: When wars break out in a country do the inhabitants sit there and die? Fight? or run to find safer pastures?
If you answered just one of questions as yes, you're wrong. The answer will always be all of the above. Some die. Some fight and stay. The majority of the people run and migrate.
Now, if Egypt was subject to internal wars between "Nubians," Hyksos, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Turks, Arabs, etc. throughout pharaonic history, what did the people do?
Did they die? Did they fight and stay? Did they run and migrate out? If you answered yes to only one of the above, you're wrong. It is always going to be yes to all of the above.
So regarding the later, where did the people migrate to? Were they received well in the places they sought refuge? If not, where did they continue on their journey? Did they migrate into Arabia? Europe? Sudan, Ethiopia? or is it possible that some of them continued West into Ghana, Nigeria, Senegal where there has always been routes for trade: goods and intellectually?
Sometimes we argue for the sake of arguing and never consider the human element to our discussion. The human element will always poke holes in the logic. Cognitive Dissonance runs rampent on this board. Instead of accepting what is obvious, we ignore what's human for some half-baked ideas that developed by Europeans to explain away history Africans know as fact.
Observe the following:
quote:Babutidi in Bantu Migration and Settlement, in Lamans Kongo Cultural Collection, (20,000 pp. microfilm, Lidingo, Sweden, 1914. Film No. 1, Cahier XVIII/13),
A long time ago in antiquity, people did not exist in this Lower-Congo; they come from the north of the country. There also, in the north, people came from far off north, the very north of Kayinga. Kayinga is the name of the country [region] where lived our ancestors in antiquityThere they already knew how to weave the cloths they wore, forge hoes and knives that they used. The main reason for their coming in this country [area] was the famine that hit Kayinga. For many years the drought reigned; crops and fruit trees they planted dried up. They suffered a lot for this. Unable to support the suffering they said to each other: Lets go to Banda-Mputu [Lets pass through the dense forest, the unbreakable wall] and organize chieftaincies, because we have a lot of hunger up here. So they agreed: Lets go.
In the past, two chieftaincies ruled this part of the world [region]. When people escaped from the north of Kayinga, they separated on their way; some crossed the Nzadi [Congo river], these are people who live in the Nsundi area [the left shore of Nzadi] and others are those who live on the Simu-Kongo [the right shore of the Nzadi].
::::::::::::::::::
Kayinga is the name given to the Sahara before it dried up. This is clearly discussing a migration from the Sahara region, through the forest into what is now Kongo. Did ALL of the people from Kongo enter in from the Sahara (Kayinga)? No. Some of them did. This oral testimony flies in the face that all of the Bantu speakers arriving in central Africa came by way of Cameroon or the forest. Their oral tradition states they were in North Africa.
Just because some people who became Bakongo came from the Sahara doesn't take away anything from the people who were already there. The same with the Yoruba and Igbo. These are names of a collective group, not of families. Anyone can become a Yoruba by succumbing to the customs and having children among them. That is the case for any nation of people. All of the people of Benin are not "Benin."
So I think people need to get out more, travel the super highway of wisdom and reevaluate how they think history went down among a diverse, complex and large continent as Africa.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Jehuti stop the idotic babbling. I grew up in Benin-city Nigeria. Every person from Benin acknowledges the relationship between the Kingdom and Egypt.
Several times you have made the statement that until "they prove the connection between Benin and Egypt..." you will continue to have doubts.
Now can I ask you who are the "they" in your statement?
What kind of proof would you need?
Conclusive medical evidence? How about we start with Benin-Haplotype sickle cell gene 19 which dominates in Egypt, Italy and Greece?
When I was growing up in Benin, I learnt that the real name of the city is Ben-Oni. There is actually a Ben-Oni hispital in Benin owned by one of the Ewekas a princely family in that city.
Anyway "Benin" is the equivalent of Hebrew "Bene," which you also find in the arabic "bin..i" which means child. Oni means the same thing as Anu or the Southerns, Ben-oni.. Child of the south..., like Ben-Yemen of Judah.
The French built a slave castle in the 17th century on the coast of present day Benin Republic, near Allada and Dahomey, which used to be vassals of the Benin Empire. The French named that slave castle Fort Judah...Ouidah. Go figure!
Altarkuri, it may sound like hog-wash to you now but by the time we are done, you will be jumping on the band wagon.
Lion!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
I have presented three pieces of evidence so far:
Medical: Haplotype 19 or the Benin Sickle cell Haplotype originated in Benin and travelled to Egypt in Pharonic times from it sojourned also to Italy.
Art: Benin carved in bronze an art specially dear to the ancient Egyptians. There are no sources of Bronze in Nigeria, or environs. Why would the ancient Benins go to the trouble of procuring a material that was not indigenous to their home country for the sake of art???
Religion: The might God Ausar is still worshipped today in Benin under his original name Osa! Osa is the high god of the Benin religion, the creator and the sustainer. It is only in Benin that the God Osa is still worshipped by an entire nation in his holy name.
The concept of Benin's Divine Kingship, the great house of the nation,
Material Culture: Cheik Anta-Diop has presented many evidence of the connection between West African groups and the Nile Valley. And there are more, like lingusitic relationship, philosophical thought, building style, civic organization, etc.
Go check Mustapha Gadalla to read up about the Egyptians who migrated from Egypt to West Africa in the time of the Abbassids.
Lion!
-------------------- Lionz Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
Chief Jacob Egharevba had published his magnus opus A short history of Benin, which was a major contribution to the development of African Historiography , which was still then in its infancy and unweaned from racist colonial historiography. It must be noted that Chief Dr. Jacob Egharevba did not really start out as a peddler of Tabolts variant of the hamitic hypothesis which traced Benins origin to Egypt. Egharevbas first book Ekhara vb itan Edo (1933) and its first translation A short history of Benin (Lagos, C.M.S Bookshop1936)
Egharevba was not also the first Edo historian to trace Edo Origin to Egypt. Before him in 1937, a committee of six which included , Y.O.Eke ( a literate trader) , H.O.Uwaifo (an ex- student of Kings college, Lagos, Government clerical service examination certificate holder , Ex-second- class clerk, pensioner, author and social critic).E. E. Omere (ex-pupil of Government school, Benin City, Government clerical service examination certificate holder, Ex- second class clerk and Timber exporter),H.O. Amadasun ( a literate trader) Y.O.Okunzuwa (an ex- pupil of Government school Benin City and trader) and Chief J.U. Egharevba (Ex- pupil of St. Matthews C.M.S. School,Benin City and Printer) had written an independent intelligence report for the colonial Government which was later published by H.O.Uwaifo as+ Benin Community Intelligence Report on Benin Division, being the political history of Benin from 1936 to 1948 (Oshogbo F.M.S. Press N.D) in which they wrote that Benin has been existing as a Nation from time unknown. the Benins sprang from the original human family and emigrated from Egypt " P.12
The committees linkage of Benins with Egypt was not borne out of desire to associate with any Caucasian race as posited by the European hamitic hypothesis peddlers . Rather they were conscious of the Africanness of Egyptian civilization -an idea which was current among Pan-Aficanist of that period. Since Egypt the cradle of civilization was African, the committee reasoned and hypothesized that, Benins genius must have been derived from Egypt. Hence the committee compared certain aspects of Benin culture with those of Pharoahic Egypt. Members of the committee of six were very conscious of Benins rich cultural heritage and never felt inferior to any Caucasian race.
posted
Excuse me people people people...but isn't Benin JUST a part of the Yoruba Kingdom? I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here. Benin is simply not that relevant.
Get the daggers out!!! Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
And I've always wondered what the difference is between Bendelites/Benin folks and those people we take/buy our slaves from - The people of the country of Benin/Dahomey.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: Relevant words from the Mtau Ntr;
ben - to copulate; couldn't this also be a word borrowed by the Hebrews/Arabs, like so many others, that came to mean "son of"
benu - man, male; see the above
benen - to copulate
Benen - a god of generation
Benni - a phallic god; isn't Benni a name of the Benin people? ...
We know Benin is actually Ben-Oni. In order to make a comparison with the Egyptian, you need to find out what the Ben in Ben-Oni means.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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BTW: I believe the name Benin is actually a Ladino-Iberic word. Probably chosen by exiled Portugese Jews that landed beginning in 1286 (the current scholars report 1446).
The ethnic name of the people is the Edo people. The name of the capital of the Edo Empire is actually Igodomigo.
The Portugese Jews named it Ben-Oni. There is a lot of stories between Benin people and Portugese. Benin used to have its embassy in Portugal for at least a century.
Benis used to go to school in Portugal and Portugese also used to go to school in Benin. The Benin king even had his retinue of Portugese slaves just as the Portugese King then sought to keep a retinue of slaves from Guinea (or Benin) coast.
Lion!
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The mastercraft ironsmiths and bronze working experts of Benin Empire, educated the Portugese in the basics of metallurgical sciences.
The Kru-men of the upper Guinean coast of Sierra Leone, which used to be within the span of Benin Empire gave the Portugese sailors basic and advance training in the science of navigation and sea travel. It was only by their help that Vasco Dagama was able to approach the sea route to India.
Lion!
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A piece of info for you good folks of ES. Did you know many Africans CHANGED their surnames during colonial era?
My great-grandfather was one of those. Luckily though, my dad asked his father for his original surname before the change and it turns out to be Ptah, or as pronounced in Yoruba "Apata".
Lion!
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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NB: Pause the video at 1:29 minutes and observe the Ankh on the chest of the image of the bronze figure therein...
Lion!
That's not an ankh on the chest. That is clearly a cross. The circle object above the cross seems to be a pendant hanging just below the neck. Look at the chain or strings that connect it.
If this figure was created during the Christian occupation of Benin, then this can't be considered a link to E. Africa.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Curry Goat: How in the hell did you come to the conclusion that Apata means Ptah?
Apata means "solid rock" not Ptah.
In actuality, there could be a connection. Apata is sacred to the forces of Nature (Orisa) in Ifa. The rock symbolizes solid primordial matter from which all that we see comes into being. It is the physical symbol for a metaphysical concept. It is saying that it is the source (stone) from which light passes through from the invisible realm to the physical realm to create matter in various forms.
Remember in Astrophysics, the universe used to be solid matter until "light" broke up the matter and created space. PTAH also means time and space. PTAH is also represented as TA and TA in Egyptian means time and matter.
This same logic is in the name OBATALA. Obatala is actually several words: O(Spirit) + BA (expansive power/energy) + OTA (stone/rock) + ALA (white light).
Obatala means, "the source of expanding power and light." Essentially PTH means the same thing. For Obatala is a creator deity. So is PTH. Often times H is dropped at the end of words in African languages. P and B are interchangeable. PTH could be OBATALA. It would be nice to see evidence for phonological change from H to L.
One should also keep in mind that PTH can also be rendered as TA and TA represents "earth" which is one big "rock." This is priliminary commentary and more investigation needs to take place. But I think there is grounds for further research.
Addendum:
A more refined understanding of Obatala should be, "The Spirit of the expansive quality of light that comes from the eternal stone of Creation (center point of the universe).
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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THE statement credited to Oba Erediauwa Omonoba Uku Akpolokpolo, that the Yoruba race originated from Benin Kingdom, was very rich in details and calls for re-examination by historians of high repute from all the Nigerian Universities and recognised institutions not from uneducated and bias sources of chambers or shrines of some Obas or traditional rulers as presently being envisaged or contemplated. The statement from Ooni of Ife disputing the fact of Oba of Benin was not strong enough.
I was fascinated by the different versions of uncoordinated folk stories we were told about the origin of the Yoruba. As a Yoruba man from Abeokuta I was told Oduduwa was the first man created by God just like the Bible said Adam and Eve were the first to be created by God.
The Bible says Cain the only surviving child of Adam and Eve went to another city called Nod to marry his wife. The question is who created the wife, the wife's parents or the family of the in-law if any. Just like I asked in my innocent mind as a student in the primary school then who created Oduduwa and how did Oduduwa marry his wife? My Teacher never told me the answer. We were even told Oduduwa was the son of Lamurudu from far East in Saudi Arabia and that some of our Yoruba cousin can be found in Uganda. Many conflicting stories which are very difficult to prove or binding on history.
These are some of the missing gaps of history.
Oduduwa had sixteen children we were told and the eldest was Orangun of Ila and the Egbas in Abeokuta were descendants of the female child of Oduduwa named Alaketu. None ever disputed the fact that Oranmiyan the last born of Oduduwa also ruled the Benin Kingdom. Why did Benin allowed the last child of Oduduwa to be made a king over them or his descendants, if there was no blue blood connection? Oba of Benin gave a detailed account of fact of history that are very difficult to dispute.
The Yoruba share so many things in common with the Edo's in names and culture, which must be the reason why it is very difficult to dispute the version of Omonoba Uku Akpolokpolo
Again, to the Bible, Adam and Eve never told or shown Cain the only surviving child the Garden of Eden where God created them, just like Oduduwa never shown the place and real evidence how he was created by God. Archeologically, the Yoruba race is not more than 2000 years meaning other tribes existed before the Oduduwa appearance. None availability of any other serious fact to negate this lend credibility to Oba Benin's version.
Two versions of history
Both version of History from Oba of Benin and Yoruba agreed that Oramiyan the last son of Oduduwa returned to Ife from Benin after he installed his son, Eweka the first as Oba of Benin. He met his father Oduduwa who was very advanced in age and blind, more also all properties had been shared and distributed among his fifteen brothers and sisters. Alternatively, seven brothers according to Oba of Benin, Oduduwa was at a dilemma on what to do because he assumed Benin Kingdom would be enough as Oranmiyan's inheritance. Both version of history agreed that the name Benin meant "the land of the annoyed" because Oranmiyan left the place in annoyance. Again, Oba of Benin was right on this.
Oduduwa found an easy way out. He gave Oranmiyan his staff as symbol to show his brothers and sisters to be able to collect ten percent of revenue derived from yearly harvest through out Yoruba land. With this, Oranmiyan was able to collect over 150 percent of all the returns throughout the uncoordinated kingdom. Oduduwa also grudgingly agreed to allow his last son Oranmiyan to be king at Ile Ife after his death. The reason for this was unknown as this was against the custom and tradition of giving priority to first child or son who was Ila of Irangun. On the other hand, could it be said that Orangun was too afraid to challenge his junior brother or Oranmiyan was indeed the senior? This is something the present Orangun of Ila should explain.
Oduduwa was primarily a priest and voodoo man. It is said until today that it is only one day that is free of ritual worship in Ile Ife and the day is never made public. Oduduwa took vacation just for one day. In one of the ritual ceremonies where nobody was allowed to be seen outside, a foreign woman of no means of tracing her background was captured and was to be used as scarifices for the gods. She was later spared because she was found to be pregnant beside, it was against ritual requirement. The child from the woman was dedicated to the gods and act as a servant to assist Oduduwa in his day-to-day ritual and voodoo job. The child was named Ooni: meaning "this is Spared One"
After the death of Oduduwa his son, Oranmiyan was invited to take over the job of his father, which was primarily ritual and voodoo, as well as traditional ruler of Ile Ife. Oranmiyan refused because he had succeeded in building an economically viable place at Oyo Ile with administratively sound method of government around the Oyomesi council in chief and it would be degrading to leave this and move to Ile Ife to be involved in daily ritual sacrifices.
Oranmiyan gave a condition that he must be buried at Ife to symbolise his right to Ife thrown. It was on condition of this that Ooni the son of the slave woman that was captured and dedicated to gods that was assisting Oduduwa continued the work of Oduduwa at Ife. This is the reason why ALafin of Oyo will never accept Ooni of Ife as a king or a superior in any Yoruba gathering of Obas.
Ooni's assumed superiority was a British creation because the King of England assumed a king at Ife, the cradle of Yoruba, must be superior to all Obas just like the British did in Abeokuta by imposing Alake's superiority over other Obas at Abeokuta. In case of Egbas, Sorunke who led the Egbas from Ibadan to the present Abeokuta was from Oke Ona, where Oba Tejuoso is the King. This is the reason why there is conflict between Alake and Osile till date.
Oranmiyan was buried at Ife and not at Oyo, which is the reason for the Opa Oranyan at Ife till today. Ooni was not a true son or direct descendant of Oduduwa and his title was not recognised. Ooni was just his name which became his title. Ooni like other Yoruba Obas paid duties to Oranmiyan during and after the death of Oduduwa.
This practice stopped after the Oyo Empire was destroyed. It is rather difficult to accept the Ooni's version as against the Omonoba Polopolo. Oranmiyan was a belligerent person. A war hero and where his brothers and sister refused to give the yearly ten percent duty as agreed with the staff of Oduduwa he would use force. He later appointed his representatives in each of the kingdoms of Yoruba to monitor the returns, thus the creation of Oyo Empire that led to the end of the kingdom Oduduwa created which was not properly coordinated. The new empire grew with amazing rapidity throughout West Africa and was like the Ghana or Shonghai Empire of the medieval history in the south of Sahara. Oyo Empire started slave trade to weaken opposition.
An administration like the British
Oranmiyan's administration was the best in Africa and could be likened to the British system of Administration during the colonial government. The empire expanded up to the present Benin republic. Those who escaped the control of Alafin are the Yorubas living in Benin Republic, which was formerly Dahomey, On the East side, Oranmiyan never bothered Benin Kingdom because of his son, and his son never looked for him. At least there was no record of history of any transaction between father and son. Benin Kingdom continued to progress and Oyo Empire continued to expand to the west coast. In Lagos, there could not be a clash, it was a place of reunion for Edo's and Yoruba it was said Eko, which is Lagos, and in our local dialect is a Benin word.
Oyo Empire later suffered from over expansion and some local hero started to emerge to challenge the authority of the Oyo kingdom or that of the Alafin of Oyo. Among them was the Lisabi Agboagbo Akala who liberated the Egbas from Oyo Empire to create a fearless Egba Kingdom.
Lisabi was never a king. In fact, he was murdered by the Alake of Egbaland because of his popularity. Egbas as a kingdom with its own National Anthem "Lori Okeati Pele" was merged with Nigeria by the British Empire after 1914. In addition, Lagelu emerged from Ibadan, Ogendegbe from Ijeshaland and Shou of Ogbomosho and Ilorin through the deserter Chief of Army Staff of Oyo who was killed by Alimi a Fulani; thus, the end of Oyo Empire. The attack from the Sokoto Caliphate from the North finally nailed the coffin of the Oyo Empire.The collapse of the Oyo Empire led to the Yoruba Wars. The present Oyo town has nothing to do with Old Oyo town, it was just a new creation to symbolise the memory of the Old.
The Egbas and Ijebus took over the control of southwest towards the Atlantics because of lucrative slave trade and closeness to the white man. The emergence of western civilisation further weakened the Old Oyo empire, the empire collapsed and the ruminants of it can still be found at the old site. The irony of it is Alafin of Oyo in the present Oyo town continued to live in the memory of his ancestors' glory of the Old Oyo empire.
In conclusion, Ooni who is not a direct son or descendants of Oduduwa cannot be considered viable in this discussion, but Alafin of Oyo must examine his place in history and that of his senior brother Orangun of Ila the first son who had disappeared into history because he never challenged Oranmiyan. The abdication of the thrown is a loss of right. However, can a son be greater than his father? or can a river be greater than its source? The source of Yoruba from Benin is very authentic than Saudi Arabia or Lamurudu, which cannot be traced, in Saudi Arabian history.
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After hinting about the trade routes I'd've thought the next thing would be what was up for trade. Does tin ring a bell.
Trust me IronLion you have no idea of the intricacies of my stance nor do you know what I've posted about this topic before you came around.
My precise point is not the back and forth between the two regions.
My precise point is the two sculptures Bru Nansi presented and how the one supposedly precedes from the other over both distance and time.
Bru Nansi choses to ignore my enquiries while you skirt around my point and talk about any thing else except the direct matter I ask.
BTW the old Ouida - Judah thing doesn't work for me because in Hebrew Judah is y*hudah and Prof Windsor knows that too despite reliance on Williams.
It may interest you to know that when the Ibibio sent their emmisary to pick up a Sepher Torah I greeted him at the airport. I am no stranger to the various Jews of Nigeria who's help in the state of Israel first came from the Jewish community of Libya.
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Jehuti stop the idotic babbling. I grew up in Benin-city Nigeria. Every person from Benin acknowledges the relationship between the Kingdom and Egypt.
Several times you have made the statement that until "they prove the connection between Benin and Egypt..." you will continue to have doubts.
Now can I ask you who are the "they" in your statement?
What kind of proof would you need?
Conclusive medical evidence? How about we start with Benin-Haplotype sickle cell gene 19 which dominates in Egypt, Italy and Greece?
When I was growing up in Benin, I learnt that the real name of the city is Ben-Oni. There is actually a Ben-Oni hispital in Benin owned by one of the Ewekas a princely family in that city.
Anyway "Benin" is the equivalent of Hebrew "Bene," which you also find in the arabic "bin..i" which means child. Oni means the same thing as Anu or the Southerns, Ben-oni.. Child of the south..., like Ben-Yemen of Judah.
The French built a slave castle in the 17th century on the coast of present day Benin Republic, near Allada and Dahomey, which used to be vassals of the Benin Empire. The French named that slave castle Fort Judah...Ouidah. Go figure!
Altarkuri, it may sound like hog-wash to you now but by the time we are done, you will be jumping on the band wagon.
Lion!
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Ttbomk, Benin is a foreign mispelling of Bini.
-------------------- Intellectual property of YYT al~Takruri 2004 - 2017. All rights reserved. Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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The French built a slave castle in the 17th century on the coast of present day Benin Republic, near Allada and Dahomey, which used to be vassals of the Benin Empire. The French named that slave castle Fort Judah...Ouidah. Go figure!
Ouidah was a city of greedy African merchants
The origins of Dahomey:
Electronic Pages last paragraph of 18 and 19 Robin Law
quote: Traditions recorded in the mid-eighteenth century suggest that it had had its origins in a gang of bandits: the king of Dahomey, some said, was originally a trader in hens who withdrew into the woods, where he formed a gang, with which he made himself into a formidable Bandit Alternaitively, or perhaps at a second stage, he had been a mercenary, who had discovered the secret of gathering nine to ten thousand men, whom he paid and hired out to those who need his services and always to the one who paid the most.
According to Snelgrave, he (Agaja) came to assist a rebellious prince of Allada, in return for a large Sum of Money, and it was apparently only at a later stage that he broke with the prince and seized power in Allada for himself.
quote: In local tradition Kpase is supposed to have founded the town.[2] This probably happened towards the end of the sixteenth century. [3] The town was originally known as Glēxw, literally 'Farmhouse', and was part of the kingdom of Xwda.
quote: The name "Whydah" (also spelt Whidah or Whidaw) is an anglicised form of the Beninese name Xwda. When the Portuguese first settled the southern coast of West Africa, they spelled the name Ajud. Today the city of Ouidah bears the kingdom's name.
The name was received because most of the European slave traders lived and worked in the port city of Ouidah.
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Altakruri wrote;Bru Nansi choses to ignore my enquiries.
Sorry AL..I didn't realized a question was ask of me...anyway I was not the one who presented the Bini Bes?..I merely commented on the similarities...and even asked if the statue was really from Nigeria...I further ask the website..about comfirmation of said Bes statue and recieved no reply as yet...one thing the Nigerian Bes. was not discribed as such on the web-site but as a son of one of the Nigerian gods... but really I am not the one to ignore...folks especially those I have mad respect for.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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A thousand years in time and a thousand miles in distance separates these two sculptures. Can you expand on their supposed connection and on the structure presumably bridging them?
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@ Brada, the professor who commented on that website doesn't call it Bes. Bes is the Egyptian name. The "Bes" figure is all over the world. I posted two more picks above. One is from Cameroon and is more recent. This is a clear sign that this is part of a tradition.
The Nigerian figure is from the 1300's if I'm not mistaken. This is centuries before "Egyptomania" in the West, so no one can claim it is the result of "Afrocentrism."
These same figures, in different forms, can be found in Greece, New Zealand and even Ireland. I posted linguistic data that demonstrates that the Igbo people were in Ireland and left the Ogam script. I also posted a link that demonstrates quite conclusively that Linea A (crete), Etruscan and Indo-European are related to Niger-Congo and that it was Niger-Congo speakers in those areas. The same with Niger-Congo and Maori.
Everywhere this "Bes" figure is, Niger-Congo speakers were. This is not a coincedence.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Even at that, our so-called educated elites and those who style themselves "historians" are the ones actually confusing the people. With their sophisticated western education or scholarship they are still hanging on to the idea that a man descended from the sky on chains around 1120 A.D at Ile-Ife. They are the ones encouraging the falsehood, rather than taking steps to correct the mistakes that were made in the past about the origin of the Yoruba people. I refuse to accept that the Yoruba people were not in existence until after 1120 A.D or so when Oduduwa was supposedly lowered from the sky on chains at Ile-Ife. How ridiculous can that be? In fact, to think thus is to be completely insensate.
Reuben Abati wrote, "Re-writing Jacob Eghareva, the Bini historian, the Oba had stated that the founder of the Yoruba race, Oduduwa, was a Bini Prince, Ekhaladeran, who having escaped from the hangman's axe, found his way to Ife. The simple interpretation is that the Yoruba descended from a Bini line." First, let it be clear that the Oba of Benin did not re-write Jacob Egharevba. The Oba of Benin only corrected some of the obvious flaws and deliberate omissions in Egharevba's accounts of the origin of the Benin royal family and the Edo or Benin relationship to the Yoruba people. I have read the part or session of the book that evoked the reactions (courtesy of and thanks to Vanguard's good work). There is nowhere in that session of the book in which the Oba of Benin put it, whether conspicuously or adumbratively, that the Yoruba originated or "descended from a Bini line." Looking at his wrong but "simple interpretation" of the content of that particular portion of the book that deals with Oduduwa and Ekaladeran, one may be compelled to posit that Reuben Abati fell into the pit of misunderstanding, just like those who have rushed to react, to render such an overly sprawled and suspicious interpretation.
The ongoing controversy is not about who is superior to whom or who originated from whom. The facts proffered by the Oba of Benin concerning the true identity of Oduduwa, the alleged founder of the Yoruba race, is to find the truth about our historical connection, which ought to bring us more closer together. Unfortunately, this is not the way some of our Yoruba people, led by the Ooni of Ife, are seeing the provided historical information. From what I have read in that particular portion of the book concerning the true identity of Oduduwa, there is no hint of any kind for one to conclude that the Edo or Benin people are superior to the Yoruba people or vice versa. Some of the Yoruba people, especially the educated and highly placed, are the ones saying so by mere fact of faulty deduction. The Oba of Benin only presented that Oduduwa, whom the Yoruba people claimed descended from the sky on chains, was actually a Benin fugitive prince, Ekalederan. Sans doubt, the presentation of the Oba of Benin apropos the origin of Oduduwa is too compelling to be ignored. Those arguing against it are only doing so for the sake of pride and for the preservation of the long held belief.
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From what I've read this confusion about origins (Yoruba) is something manufactured by the British
Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007
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The French built a slave castle in the 17th century on the coast of present day Benin Republic, near Allada and Dahomey, which used to be vassals of the Benin Empire. The French named that slave castle Fort Judah...Ouidah. Go figure!
Ouidah was a city of greedy African merchants
The origins of Dahomey:
Electronic Pages last paragraph of 18 and 19 Robin Law
quote: Traditions recorded in the mid-eighteenth century suggest that it had had its origins in a gang of bandits: the king of Dahomey, some said, was originally a trader in hens who withdrew into the woods, where he formed a gang, with which he made himself into a formidable Bandit Alternaitively, or perhaps at a second stage, he had been a mercenary, who had discovered the secret of gathering nine to ten thousand men, whom he paid and hired out to those who need his services and always to the one who paid the most.
According to Snelgrave, he (Agaja) came to assist a rebellious prince of Allada, in return for a large Sum of Money, and it was apparently only at a later stage that he broke with the prince and seized power in Allada for himself.
King Agaja was an anti-slave crusader . One of my heroes althoug they (western establishment) seek to tarnish his image. The people of Dahomey, I think they are called Fon used to be the prey of the Portugese slave raiding ships, Oyo empire expansionist ambitions and subjects of Allada.
King Agaja led a revolution and captured Allada, and burnt down the notorious French slave depot Fort in Allada called Fort Judah as a mark of his revulsion against the trade.
He shut down export of slavery along the coast until attacks by Oyo Empire on one flank and the Portugese, French, Dutch and English finally forced him to cede all but nominal control over the ports of Dahomey.
Lion!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:According to Snelgrave, he (Agaja) came to assist a rebellious prince of Allada, in return for a large Sum of Money, and it was apparently only at a later stage that he broke with the prince and seized power in Allada for himself.
I don't think there is any reason to doubt Snelgrave on this one because he wrote that before the abolitionists became a threat. In his later writings he went out of his way to play down the importance of the profits of the slave trade when it came to African wars
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For those who misunderstand. Of course there is a connection between West African kingdoms and Egypt in that BOTH are African, but that is it! There is no evidence to suggest such West African kingdoms were founded by Egyptians and not the native West African people. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: For those who misunderstand. Of course there is a connection between West African kingdoms and Egypt in that BOTH are African, but that is it! There is no evidence to suggest such West African kingdoms were founded by Egyptians and not the native West African people.
Lesson #1:
^^ Per Naiwu Osahon, renowned writer of Benin origin:
"Historical accounts are vague as to when and if the Bini (Edo), migrated from the Nile valley. What is not in doubt is that the earliest rulers of Benin were called Ogisos. Thirty-one Ogisos in all ruled the kingdom of Benin between 900 - 1200 AD, which is the earliest period so far accounted for in Benin history. The Bini monarchy demonstrates strong affinity with ancient Egyptian gods and Pharaohs, with which it shares identical authority, grandeur and a great deal of reverence from their subjects. In fact, the hair style of Bini chiefs is similar to Pharaoh Ramses II's famous helmet, while the small circles on the helmet appear also on many Bini bronzes. Bini Queens wear identical hairstyles to that of Pharaoh Mycerinus (Fourth-Dynasty), and Pharaoh Sesostris I (Twelfth Dynasty). The kings (Ogies) of Benin (Bini) also adopt grand Osirian titles of the 'Open Eye,' signifying omniscience and omnipotence...."
quote: When the Edionisen of Igodomigodo finally traced Ekaladerhan (Oduduwa) down to (Ilefe) Ile-Ife, they could not persuade Oduduwa to return to his father's throne in Igodomigodo. The Edionisen, out of frustration for not being able to persuade Izoduwa to return home to his throne, installed a temporary administrator, the hero whose name was Evian, to oversee the affairs of Igodomigodo. Evian was a popular administrator. He invented the acrobatic dance called Amufi and the traditional dance called Emeghute. He ruled until very old age and before his death, nominated his oldest son, Irebor to succeed him. Most of the people of Igodomigodo and senior chiefs would not have this. They rejected Irebor on the ground that his father Evian was not an Ogiso and, therefore, lacked divine authority to bequeath kingship (Ogieship)to his heir. http://greatbenin.org/New%20Folder2/naiwu_osahon.html
I guess this pretty much WRAPS UP the debate of who is greater between the Yorubas and the Bendelites. Where is the divine lineage at?? Thought so. Benin gets credit for being Mother so I guess that makes it even. Group hug?
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@ Lion, one still has to factor in how this whole thing called the Yoruba language came about and how the kingship came about from a people who allegedly didn't have kings as one of your above links asserts.
Here is the rebuttal to one of your articles above.
quote: ODUDUWA: A Rejoinder to Chukwu Eke
By
Femi Olawole
Delaware, U.S.A.
femiolawole@msn.com
"Since the beginning of the Yoruba-Bini ethnic origin imbroglio, there have been several vain attempts by some non-Yoruba and non-Bini individuals to cash in on the issue. One such individual was Chukwu Eke who wrote, in the Vanguard of June 3, 2004, an article titled “Oduduwa: Saving history from ethnic propaganda”. That one Chukwu, in writing such a ridiculous tale, could jump into a bandwagon even while being ignorant of its destination did not really come as a surprise. What else would one expect of a Chukwu in a matter between the Yoruba and the Bini?
I was however surprised that an organization going by the name Media Watch Nigeria would forward the Chukwu Eke article to me. What could have been its motivation? As champions of an ethnic interest, the faceless members of the group have their antecedents in a previously failed campaign to make me answer to a different name (Femi Fani-Kayode). My first reaction was to wonder if any of my articles in recent times had made me step on their paranoid ethnic toes again? It occurred to me that I had not even written anything about the raging Yoruba-Bini palaver. Therefore I could only arrive at two conclusions: That the organization had gone into all that trouble merely to gloat because I’m one Yoruba they love to hate. Or they probably have assumed (again?) that I was the writer of that article parading as Chukwu Eke.
As far as the forwarded article was concerned, here, in a nutshell are my views:
By writing that piece (Chukwu Eke), being an Igbo man, did not achieve anything except to shoot himself in the foot. Although, his primary target was the jugular of the Yoruba ancestry, he also did not spare the Bini who he described as merely “having lesser of the Yoruba sin of making spurious historical claims.” Worse still, that article, if anything, was not a compliment to the Igbo race. It was just a confirmation of an oral history that the Yoruba people, at one time, occupied the land of a people who were branded “ara Igbo” (bush people), so-called because they lived as barbarians in the bush. To the Yoruba of those days, any race of people without a King or organized way of life was viewed with scorn.
Just as the lawless barbarians of old constituted themselves as a nuisance to the civilized Roman people, so also did these Igbo (according to the Yoruba history) constituted themselves as a menace to the Yoruba people of Ife. These bush people never followed the norms in warfare. Rather, they would pretend to be evil spirits while launching sporadic attacks against the Ife people, mostly women and children in market places until the matter got to a head. To unravel the mystery and stop their menace once and for all, an Ife woman (Moremi), who also had roots in Offa (in the present day Kwara State), offered to go on a special espionage mission into the Igbo land. To achieve this feat, she allowed herself to be captured by the Igbo.
The leader of the Igbo fell in love with the beautiful woman and being a “woman wrapper” that he was he unwittingly exposed the secret behind the raffia costume of his women-attacking marauders. With this secret in hand, the woman escaped from Igbo land to leak the secret to her people. Upon their subsequent “visit” the raffia costume of the Igbo marauders were simply touched with fire and this resulted in their massacre. The Ife Army subsequently invaded Igbo land, captured their leader and enslaved the people.
If Chukwu Eke’s article was intended to ridicule the Yoruba, it was unwittingly a rude joke on his Igbo race. Here are samplers:
1. If he (the writer) insists that the name “Oduduwa” is not legitimate just because the “autochthon (sic) Igbo” he colonized had a different name for him, are the Yoruba supposed to address their progenitor by the nickname given to him by the subjects in his colony?
2. The writer wanted us to accept that the “aboriginal inhabitants” of Southwest were Igbo. From where then did the Yoruba come to invade them, the Southeast? In line with Yoruba history however, the said Igbo marauders were from “Ila orun” (land of the rising sun).
3. Quoting ignorantly from one Robert Smith (an American for God’s sake!), to back his claim, Chukwu asserted that the conquest of the Igbo had since been celebrated by the Yoruba at the annual Eid festival. Yet, “Eid” not being a Yoruba word can only be linked to Eid El Fitril, an Islamic festival.
My question now is why an Igbo man would gleefully give publicity to such a self-immolating story all in a vain attempt to make a silly claim that the Yoruba had their roots in Igbo land? And going by Chukwu Eke’s “historical excursion”, since when has a group of conquerors had their roots in a conquered land? Really, what was Chukwu thinking while writing that article? And what did an ethnic interest-championing group such as the so-called Media Watch Nigeria expect to gain by forwarding such a boomerang of an article to me?
And now that I’ve been dragged into the Yoruba-Bini issue, I might as well make my own contribution. The Oba of Benin has spoken. And the number one descendant of Oduduwa (the Ono of Ife) has disputed the claims of the Benin King. More so, all the known and unknown Ph.D holders in History from both sides have treated us to several academic lessons on the issue. I would therefore like to be objective here. In doing so, the views of both sides will be treated as assumptions, subject to some tests of logic:
The Oba of Benin wrote among other things that, “…Owodo was advised by oracle, so it was said, to have the son (Oduduwa) executed. Owodo (unaware that he had been tricked about his son) got the Oka Odionmwan (the executioner) to perform the act. But the executioner had pity on the son and…let him off…”
In Lagos of the 1960s, there was a house on Herbert Macaulay Street in Ebute Metta that had a bold inscription “A JI SE BI OYO” (we who wake up to imitate the Oyo people). These words did lend credence to a very interesting adage of the proud people of the old Oyo empire that “a ji se bi Oyo la nri. Oyo o se bi enikeni” (we only see those who try to imitate the great Oyo people. The Oyo people have no cause to imitate anyone).
Let us now assume, as the Oba stated in his book that Oduduwa was a Bini prince who ran away to escape from a set up and ended up founding a place called Ile-Ife where he ruled over the people. Logically therefore, one would expect the founded town to bear a Bini name. Going further, the Yoruba people should have assimilated the Bini culture and in fact be speaking the Bini language instead of what they speak. Whereas, there is absolutely no trace of Bini culture in core Yoruba land. This, precisely, is the rug or carpet on which the entire argument should rest.
Going by the Yoruba version of the history however, the relationship between the Yoruba and the Bini commenced when Oduduwa sent his son, Oranmiyan, to rule over the Bini. This has been responsible therefore for the Yoruba cultural presence in Bini land up till now. Even there are some highly titled Bini Chiefs and several Bini men and women bearing Yoruba names. Yet, there is nothing like vice versa in this scenario. For instance, there are no real Yoruba with Bini names. And neither do we see any King in Yoruba land having a title that has a cultural or linguistic bearing to Bini land. On the other hand, even the King of Benin is called Oba (a Yoruba title for King). Does this not strongly suggest something in support of the Yoruba version of the History?
We can also draw some examples from Ilorin in Kwara State where the Yoruba once extended their influence. Till today, there are many descendants of Alimi (the progenitor of the Northern ruling house in Ilorin) who are bearing Yoruba names. Even the current Emir has a Yoruba name. The mother of Sango, one of the most powerful Aalafin of Oyo empire was from Tapa land. And before ascending the throne, the great man once resided in Tapa land. It’s not surprising therefore to see some elements of the Yoruba culture among the Tapa people and vice versa till today. There is also the Itsekiri part of Warri where their King bears a Yoruba title (Olu) and the people speak a language that sounds like that of the Remo people of Yoruba land. These are empirical evidences that no one can fault. It will however be grossly unfair and indeed offensive for anyone, even a King in Ilorin, Tapa land, Itsekiri or wherever else to suddenly wake up one day to state that the Yoruba progenitor came from his part of the world.
Just last week, some friends (both fellow Yoruba and non-Yoruba alike) wondered why almost everybody is suddenly embarking on an ego trip at the expense of the Yoruba. And my answer was in form of a question: Which other ethnic group in Nigeria is really worth riding on its back by a different group? This clearly explains why some other Nigerians would readily blame the political, economic and social woes of their ethnic groups on the Yoruba.
The Yoruba civilization is comparable to those of the old Greeks and the Romans. Here are a pace setting people not only in Nigeria but also in the whole of Africa. As I stated in an article written sometimes in 2003, every Yoruba kingdom was based on a parliamentary system of government. The Yoruba were the first to have a textile industry…when many other Africans were still going about stark naked.
The Yoruba were the first to use modern weapons of war such as bazooka, artillery guns and automatic rifles during their intra tribal wars. This was a time others were still going to wars with cutlasses bows and arrows. The Yoruba were the first to adopt a modern military hierarchy from “eso to Are Ona Kakanfo” (soldier to Field Marshal). The Yoruba were the first to have a television station, the first to have an Olympic stadium, the first to build a sky scrapper (Cocoa House), The first to set up Free Primary education etc etc. A people that could achieve all these pace-setting feats have no cause whatsoever to take the historical accounts of their great ancestry from outsiders. More so, when such outsiders are, themselves, victims of identity crisis that borders on inferiority complex.
quote: When the Edionisen of Igodomigodo finally traced Ekaladerhan (Oduduwa) down to (Ilefe) Ile-Ife, they could not persuade Oduduwa to return to his father's throne in Igodomigodo. The Edionisen, out of frustration for not being able to persuade Izoduwa to return home to his throne, installed a temporary administrator, the hero whose name was Evian, to oversee the affairs of Igodomigodo. Evian was a popular administrator. He invented the acrobatic dance called Amufi and the traditional dance called Emeghute. He ruled until very old age and before his death, nominated his oldest son, Irebor to succeed him. Most of the people of Igodomigodo and senior chiefs would not have this. They rejected Irebor on the ground that his father Evian was not an Ogiso and, therefore, lacked divine authority to bequeath kingship (Ogieship)to his heir. http://greatbenin.org/New%20Folder2/naiwu_osahon.html
I guess this pretty much WRAPS UP the debate of who is greater between the Yorubas and the Bendelites. Where is the divine lineage at?? Thought so. Benin gets credit for being Mother so I guess that makes it even. Group hug?
Lion!
Are you tried of your Clint Eastwood name that you have to sign your posts as the Lion!?
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: @ Lion, one still has to factor in how this whole thing called the Yoruba language came about and how the kingship came about from a people who allegedly didn't have kings as one of your above links asserts.
Here is the rebuttal to one of your articles above.
quote: ODUDUWA: A Rejoinder to Chukwu Eke
By
Femi Olawole
Delaware, U.S.A.
femiolawole@msn.com
"Since the beginning of the Yoruba-Bini ethnic origin imbroglio, there have been several vain attempts by some non-Yoruba and non-Bini individuals to cash in on the issue. One such individual was Chukwu Eke who wrote, in the Vanguard of June 3, 2004, an article titled “Oduduwa: Saving history from ethnic propaganda”. That one Chukwu, in writing such a ridiculous tale, could jump into a bandwagon even while being ignorant of its destination did not really come as a surprise. What else would one expect of a Chukwu in a matter between the Yoruba and the Bini?
I was however surprised that an organization going by the name Media Watch Nigeria would forward the Chukwu Eke article to me. What could have been its motivation? As champions of an ethnic interest, the faceless members of the group have their antecedents in a previously failed campaign to make me answer to a different name (Femi Fani-Kayode). My first reaction was to wonder if any of my articles in recent times had made me step on their paranoid ethnic toes again? It occurred to me that I had not even written anything about the raging Yoruba-Bini palaver. Therefore I could only arrive at two conclusions: That the organization had gone into all that trouble merely to gloat because I’m one Yoruba they love to hate. Or they probably have assumed (again?) that I was the writer of that article parading as Chukwu Eke.
As far as the forwarded article was concerned, here, in a nutshell are my views:
By writing that piece (Chukwu Eke), being an Igbo man, did not achieve anything except to shoot himself in the foot. Although, his primary target was the jugular of the Yoruba ancestry, he also did not spare the Bini who he described as merely “having lesser of the Yoruba sin of making spurious historical claims.” Worse still, that article, if anything, was not a compliment to the Igbo race. It was just a confirmation of an oral history that the Yoruba people, at one time, occupied the land of a people who were branded “ara Igbo” (bush people), so-called because they lived as barbarians in the bush. To the Yoruba of those days, any race of people without a King or organized way of life was viewed with scorn.
Just as the lawless barbarians of old constituted themselves as a nuisance to the civilized Roman people, so also did these Igbo (according to the Yoruba history) constituted themselves as a menace to the Yoruba people of Ife. These bush people never followed the norms in warfare. Rather, they would pretend to be evil spirits while launching sporadic attacks against the Ife people, mostly women and children in market places until the matter got to a head. To unravel the mystery and stop their menace once and for all, an Ife woman (Moremi), who also had roots in Offa (in the present day Kwara State), offered to go on a special espionage mission into the Igbo land. To achieve this feat, she allowed herself to be captured by the Igbo.
The leader of the Igbo fell in love with the beautiful woman and being a “woman wrapper” that he was he unwittingly exposed the secret behind the raffia costume of his women-attacking marauders. With this secret in hand, the woman escaped from Igbo land to leak the secret to her people. Upon their subsequent “visit” the raffia costume of the Igbo marauders were simply touched with fire and this resulted in their massacre. The Ife Army subsequently invaded Igbo land, captured their leader and enslaved the people.
If Chukwu Eke’s article was intended to ridicule the Yoruba, it was unwittingly a rude joke on his Igbo race. Here are samplers:
1. If he (the writer) insists that the name “Oduduwa” is not legitimate just because the “autochthon (sic) Igbo” he colonized had a different name for him, are the Yoruba supposed to address their progenitor by the nickname given to him by the subjects in his colony?
2. The writer wanted us to accept that the “aboriginal inhabitants” of Southwest were Igbo. From where then did the Yoruba come to invade them, the Southeast? In line with Yoruba history however, the said Igbo marauders were from “Ila orun” (land of the rising sun).
3. Quoting ignorantly from one Robert Smith (an American for God’s sake!), to back his claim, Chukwu asserted that the conquest of the Igbo had since been celebrated by the Yoruba at the annual Eid festival. Yet, “Eid” not being a Yoruba word can only be linked to Eid El Fitril, an Islamic festival.
My question now is why an Igbo man would gleefully give publicity to such a self-immolating story all in a vain attempt to make a silly claim that the Yoruba had their roots in Igbo land? And going by Chukwu Eke’s “historical excursion”, since when has a group of conquerors had their roots in a conquered land? Really, what was Chukwu thinking while writing that article? And what did an ethnic interest-championing group such as the so-called Media Watch Nigeria expect to gain by forwarding such a boomerang of an article to me?
And now that I’ve been dragged into the Yoruba-Bini issue, I might as well make my own contribution. The Oba of Benin has spoken. And the number one descendant of Oduduwa (the Ono of Ife) has disputed the claims of the Benin King. More so, all the known and unknown Ph.D holders in History from both sides have treated us to several academic lessons on the issue. I would therefore like to be objective here. In doing so, the views of both sides will be treated as assumptions, subject to some tests of logic:
The Oba of Benin wrote among other things that, “…Owodo was advised by oracle, so it was said, to have the son (Oduduwa) executed. Owodo (unaware that he had been tricked about his son) got the Oka Odionmwan (the executioner) to perform the act. But the executioner had pity on the son and…let him off…”
In Lagos of the 1960s, there was a house on Herbert Macaulay Street in Ebute Metta that had a bold inscription “A JI SE BI OYO” (we who wake up to imitate the Oyo people). These words did lend credence to a very interesting adage of the proud people of the old Oyo empire that “a ji se bi Oyo la nri. Oyo o se bi enikeni” (we only see those who try to imitate the great Oyo people. The Oyo people have no cause to imitate anyone).
Let us now assume, as the Oba stated in his book that Oduduwa was a Bini prince who ran away to escape from a set up and ended up founding a place called Ile-Ife where he ruled over the people. Logically therefore, one would expect the founded town to bear a Bini name. Going further, the Yoruba people should have assimilated the Bini culture and in fact be speaking the Bini language instead of what they speak. Whereas, there is absolutely no trace of Bini culture in core Yoruba land. This, precisely, is the rug or carpet on which the entire argument should rest.
Going by the Yoruba version of the history however, the relationship between the Yoruba and the Bini commenced when Oduduwa sent his son, Oranmiyan, to rule over the Bini. This has been responsible therefore for the Yoruba cultural presence in Bini land up till now. Even there are some highly titled Bini Chiefs and several Bini men and women bearing Yoruba names. Yet, there is nothing like vice versa in this scenario. For instance, there are no real Yoruba with Bini names. And neither do we see any King in Yoruba land having a title that has a cultural or linguistic bearing to Bini land. On the other hand, even the King of Benin is called Oba (a Yoruba title for King). Does this not strongly suggest something in support of the Yoruba version of the History?
We can also draw some examples from Ilorin in Kwara State where the Yoruba once extended their influence. Till today, there are many descendants of Alimi (the progenitor of the Northern ruling house in Ilorin) who are bearing Yoruba names. Even the current Emir has a Yoruba name. The mother of Sango, one of the most powerful Aalafin of Oyo empire was from Tapa land. And before ascending the throne, the great man once resided in Tapa land. It’s not surprising therefore to see some elements of the Yoruba culture among the Tapa people and vice versa till today. There is also the Itsekiri part of Warri where their King bears a Yoruba title (Olu) and the people speak a language that sounds like that of the Remo people of Yoruba land. These are empirical evidences that no one can fault. It will however be grossly unfair and indeed offensive for anyone, even a King in Ilorin, Tapa land, Itsekiri or wherever else to suddenly wake up one day to state that the Yoruba progenitor came from his part of the world.
Just last week, some friends (both fellow Yoruba and non-Yoruba alike) wondered why almost everybody is suddenly embarking on an ego trip at the expense of the Yoruba. And my answer was in form of a question: Which other ethnic group in Nigeria is really worth riding on its back by a different group? This clearly explains why some other Nigerians would readily blame the political, economic and social woes of their ethnic groups on the Yoruba.
The Yoruba civilization is comparable to those of the old Greeks and the Romans. Here are a pace setting people not only in Nigeria but also in the whole of Africa. As I stated in an article written sometimes in 2003, every Yoruba kingdom was based on a parliamentary system of government. The Yoruba were the first to have a textile industry…when many other Africans were still going about stark naked.
The Yoruba were the first to use modern weapons of war such as bazooka, artillery guns and automatic rifles during their intra tribal wars. This was a time others were still going to wars with cutlasses bows and arrows. The Yoruba were the first to adopt a modern military hierarchy from “eso to Are Ona Kakanfo” (soldier to Field Marshal). The Yoruba were the first to have a television station, the first to have an Olympic stadium, the first to build a sky scrapper (Cocoa House), The first to set up Free Primary education etc etc. A people that could achieve all these pace-setting feats have no cause whatsoever to take the historical accounts of their great ancestry from outsiders. More so, when such outsiders are, themselves, victims of identity crisis that borders on inferiority complex.
posted
You're damn right I'm tribal. And you know what? I've always loved Benin girls. Lord have mercy those girls are freaky. I can go on and on...
Anyway, Benin folks are my family, my tribe. There are many many folks in my extended family who are married to Bendelites and I actually had more Bendelite friends growing up in the Motherland than I did say people from my home town.
Bendel folks are the closest to Yorubas from a tribal perspective and the obvious reason for that is we only split apart very recently. There are still many overlaps between Yoruba and Bendelite dialects. Too many.
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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Yes, Benin was a great kingdom founded entirely by its inhabitants who are indigenous to that part of Africa. It takes more than some similarities in apotropaic statues or figures or hearsay of Yoruba priests claiming ancestors studying in Egypt!
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Benin gets credit for being Mother so I guess that makes it even. Group hug? ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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