posted
OK fellas help a bradda out,I know little or next to notthing about genetics.... not a damn thing really.But this Benin Gene that found it's way into Europe.when did it get there.And did it make it's present felt else where a long the long march to Europe?
What am asking is did a bunch of Nigerians,up and leave their present location..and travelled directly to Greece and beyond with atlease part of their culture intact.or gene transfer from one group of people to another untill it ultimately reach Europe?
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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The transfer of genes is not necessarily linked to the transfer of "ideas".
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Hi Bro Dawud, I know that transfer of genes and ideas need not travell together..but I was struct by Asar Imhotep's PDf article on the super-highway...and I am not saying that the Benin sickle cell gene is connected to what was put forth by the article.But could give a possible explaination of why it came to be..the article smacks of what amounts to be an ancient form of Freemasonary.groups of men travelling all over to share knowladge in secertive settings..and wasen't there a legend that connected the priest of ancient Ghana to priest of Kemet battling the former favored son of Seti... Moses in the Battle of the snakes? I am just not sure where I got the legend from.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Ok I went back and digup part of an old thread of mine, It had to do with knowladge transfer..replace the word magician with priest and Witches with iniciates and you get something not so different from what Asar Imhotep is talking about. Because if it happened in medieval Moorish times I don't see why It couldn't have happend earlier still;
you may find this intresting.iam quoting from the book a history of secret sociaties by arkon darul.the earliest mentions of the witches sabbats;which were also known as "synagogues" came in the eleventh century,and seem to show the assimilation of the diana cult with another: one which involves the worship of a "black man". then we have mentions of brewing of potions,rubbing on oinyments,meetings and spells at cross-roads,renouncing christianity and the use of the wax image in a death-spell. by the fifteenth century,there was a remarkable similarity between witch meeting reported or confessed to,in many countries,some without much contact with one another. reference will be made later to the "sabbat" rituals reported from sweden,spain,scotland and france. from the 7th~15th centuries the moors were ruling spain and north africa. cultral penetration from their universities into western europe was enormous; while their transltions of greek and other philosophical books posed a challenge which the theologians of the west were hard to meet during this very same period, a strange cult had arisen in morocco,crossed the strits into andaluisa, and wasactively-if secretly-followed in the centres of arab civilization with cosmopolitan populations. the latter consisted of arabized jews,christians scholors and wandering ascetics who travelled from one country to another in search of knowlage. the cult was called by the arab authorities{who tried to put it down} "the double horned", and it seemed to be connected moon-worship. it was certainly associated with magic, and its similarities to what were later reported as witch practises are very close. the devotees of this cult met on thursday nights,were initiated by having a wound inflicted somewhere on their bodies{which left a smallscar},and beleived that they could raise magical power by dancing in or around a circle. some of them claim that they at times carried out religious services which involved the saying of the moslem prayers backwards,and invoking el aswad(the black man)to help them. they served their priests, whom they saw only rarely, says the historian ibn jafar,after taking an oath of fealty of body and soul,they were drawn from all sections of the community, were of both sexes, and used ritual knives in the scarring ceremony. these knives were known as al-dhamme' or bloodletters. here is a typical initiation ceremony of the horned ones:we gathered by night, where two paths met and crossed; and he who had been so instructed bore with him a cock, which was to be sacrificed as the emblem of the new day. each carried a staff with two horns in brass upon the head; which is symbolical of the goat which is ridden,the sign of power and irresistiblity. "this meeting which is called the zabbat,the forceful or powerful one; and the circle of companions are the kafan(arabic for winding sheet). those of us who are companions of the rabbna(our lord) examplified by the blacksmith". in morocco to this day, blacksmiths are considered to be great sorcerers; and in the middle east in general(as well as in the arabian nights)it is the moor who is always the magician. and it seemed to be connected moon-worship.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: OK fellas help a bradda out,I know little or next to notthing about genetics.... not a damn thing really.But this Benin Gene that found it's way into Europe.when did it get there.And did it make it's present felt else where a long the long march to Europe?
What am asking is did a bunch of Nigerians,up and leave their present location..and travelled directly to Greece and beyond with atlease part of their culture intact.or gene transfer from one group of people to another untill it ultimately reach Europe?
You know Brada-A...you are one genius..
There were Benin sailors too...
See:
Genetic Evidence of the Nigerian and Ethiopian Origin of the Ancient Greek
Edited By Jide Uwechia from cited Sources
The Benin Haplogroup or Haplogroup 19 Common In Africans, Greeks and Albanians
There are at least four distinct African, (known as Senegal, Congo, Benin, Bantu Hbs Haplogroups) and one Asian chromosomal backgrounds (haplotypes) on which the sickle cell mutation has arisen.
The Benin haplotype (which originates from Nigeria, West Africa) accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily Northern Greece, Southern Turkey, and South West Saudi Arabia, suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa. The Asian haplotype is rarely encountered outside its geographic origin because there have been few large population movements and Indian emigrants have been predominantly from non HbS containing populations. Per:Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP, The Geography Of Sickle Cell Disease:Opportunities For Understanding Its DiversityRSITY:kfshrc.edu.sa/annals/143/rev9239.html ...............
posted
^^Because it originated in the coast of Benin. It is a West African gene marker just like E3a. It is autosomnal but yet it is a highly reliable marker of Benin ancestry.
Now what was it doing in Greece, in Italy, in Egypt, in Spain? Were the Benins the Egyptians...were they the Moors or the Phoenicians....what were they called in the ancient time in those places since noone ever heard of the word Africa at that time...
Lion!
-------------------- Lionz Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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"Some Grecian traditions indicate that Libyans (called Garamante) formerly lived on Crete. This suggest that some of the Eteocretans may have spoken one of the ancient languages of Libya.
A major group from Libya that settled Crete were the Garamante. Robert Graves in <The Greek Myths> (Vol.1, pp.33-35) maintains that the Garamante who originally lived in the Fezzan fused with the inhabitants of the Upper Niger region of West Africa.
........ (see: C. A. Winters, "The influence of the Mande scripts on ancient America", <Bull.de l'IFAN>, t59, serB, no.1, (1977) pp.941-967; and C.A. Winters, "The ancient manding Script", In <Blacks in Science ancient and Modern>, (ed.) by Ivan van Sertima, ( London: Rutgers University Press Transaction Press , 1981) pp.208-214), may be written in an aspect of the Manding (Malinke/Bambara) language.
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
If we can attest to the fact that the God Bes is Kemetian or perhaps comes from further south,yet he shows up not only in the Lavant amongst the Phoenicians a people with atleast part African ancestery but through-out the mediterranean..sometimes identified as Pan/satyer etc..under different names I don't have a problem with him or anyother concepts or ideas moving around within Africa it self at the behest of wondering teacher priests. below Phoenician Bes
Harp playing Pan Greece
Harp playing Bes Kemet
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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We know Benin is actually Ben-Oni. In order to make a comparison with the Egyptian, you need to find out what the Ben in Ben-Oni means.
No, we know that Benin is actually Benin...
Relevant words from the Mtau Ntr;
ben - to copulate; couldn't this also be a word borrowed by the Hebrews/Arabs, like so many others, that came to mean "son of"
benu - man, male; see the above
benen; benin - to copulate
Benen; Benin - a god of generation ------------------------- Benni - a phallic god
> The Bini (aka Edo or Benin) is an Edo-speaking ethnic group in Nigeria...The Bini are the descendents of the people who founded the Benin Empire; Ubini was the original name of Benin City...
> One of the titles of the Oba ('king' in Yoruba; 'sceptre, Director' in Mtau Ntr) was Ooni;
Onu is the name of a founding ethnic group of Kemet (Anu = Onu)
On - The Onu city of 'Heliopolis'('On' in Coptic)
Oni - an Onu person also Benuoni - BenOoni - "an Oni man' in the Mtau Ntr...
building walls and fortresses were also traits shared by both the Bini and the Onu of Kemet...Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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We know Benin is actually Ben-Oni. In order to make a comparison with the Egyptian, you need to find out what the Ben in Ben-Oni means.
No, we know that Benin is actually Benin...
Relevant words from the Mtau Ntr;
ben - to copulate; couldn't this also be a word borrowed by the Hebrews/Arabs, like so many others, that came to mean "son of"
benu - man, male; see the above
benen; benin - to copulate
Benen; Benin - a god of generation
Again, taking similar sounding words from Egypt and applying them to place names when you don't have the native meaning to match is not sound linguistics. To do comparative lexical items you match not only similar sounding terms between languages, but the meanings have to match or be close for semantic shift. You have not supplied a meaning for the word Benin in the Edo language. You also have a native Nigerian telling you Benin is not the correct pronunciation.
If you are going to compare terms, you compare the phonetics and the meaning. Or you compare place names. You haven't even supplied a Benin place name in Egypt.
This is how you do a comparison with place names:
CRETE AFRICA Konoso Kono Ida Idah Koumasa Kumasi Candia Kandi Minoa Minna Como Comoe
I can't say that there is a word in English (Candy) and say it is the root of a place name in ancient Crete (Candia) and say they are a match. I would have to supply a name of a city called Candy to aid my thesis.
We know there is a Yorktown in Europe. Here in the U.S. we have New York. Even if you don't know the meaning of the names, we know they are names for locations of people. Combined with the known history, we know they are matches.
What does the name Benin mean in the Edo language, not Egyptian? A poster said Benin came from Ben-Oni. There is a town in South Africa that was given the same name from the Hebrew Ben-Oni which means "son of Sorrow." I don't think the Beni people named themselves sons of sorrow. If it comes from the Arabic Bani, sons, then you are simply saying SONS. Son of who?
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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Again, taking similar sounding words from Egypt and applying them to place names when you don't have the native meaning to match is not sound linguistics.....
Your response is extremely selective and at best irrelevant;
The names of African peoples, which I have previously listed elsewhere, do not derive from the names of cities, or locations; they derive from the names or associations to a god; they represent Clan or Totemic names...
- Fante is a god of Kemet; also the name of an ethnic group in West Africa
- Akan is a god of Kemet; also the name of an ethnic group in West Africa
- Benin & Benni are gods of Kemet; it is also the name of an ethnic group in West Africa: the Bini people are also referred to as 1) Edo 2) Bini 3) Benin...you know, like the Peul/Fulani/Wodaabe/Bororo...
I have never been so naive as to suggest that words that sound alike are the same! If you read any of my previous posts you will note that I insist that words have the same or similar meanings in both languages! Hence, the irrelevancy, at least to me, of your point!
--You make no mention of the fact that 'benu Oni' in the Mtau Ntr means 'Oni man' but rather keep running back to the Hebrew; it's no different than to erroneously insist that the name 'Moses' is Hebrew when it is clearly Mtau Ntr...PtahMoses, RaMoses, DjehutiMoses
Here's some examples of how 'ben' could be used in the Mtau Ntr:
Benu On - Man of On; 'Heliopolis' Man
Benu Oni - an Onu man - sound it out and what does it sound like: ben.oo.oh.nee
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
This is not a difficult task. Demonstrate that Benin means to copulate or means god in the actual Edo language, not just Egyptian. You are not comparing but assuming.
Show in EDO that BENI means to copulate or son of or God. It's very simple. Otherwise your alleged definition of Benin is false. Period.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
...please pause for a moment in looking for 'loopholes' in my statements; rather read the following...carefully, slowly:
Some West African clan names or ethnic names have shown a remarkable similarity with those of Ancient Egyptian gods and/or religious terminologies. While in drawing linguistic relationships between these languages it is necessary to show similarities in meanings:
Oba = 'King' in Edo
Oba = 'sceptre' in Mtau Ntr (similar to 'Wose')
ran = 'name' in Mtau Ntr, Sahidic, and Yoruba but 'len' in Bohairic (Delta dialect)
aro = eyes in Edo and arou = eye pupil in Sahidic ....
The same criteria in Ethnic names is not required and in many cases not even available:
Ausar/Osiri = ???
Fante = 'He of the nose' in Mtau Ntr but does it have to mean this in the Fante language? No! The name of the Ntr = the name of 'the protecting god; or totem'
---
Put aside, for the moment, the term 'Benin' and let us use the alternative name of 'Edo' : Thusly, the term; Edu = 'children' is irrelevant for clan or totemic usage here, but these are: ETAU EIER (Aa.DAH.OO EYE.AIR) ETU (Aa.DOO)
COMPARE HOW THIS WORD 'ETOMU' IS WRITTEN IN ENGLISH 'EDOMITE,' WITH THE ABOVE... ...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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...If not, what is its meaning, and we'll take it from that approach...
Or you can use the Hieroglyphic Dictionary to find also
Now I have to do a lil bit of digging to come up with the Edo meaning of Edun. It is possible that it is another variation on the pronounciation of Edo since the neighbouring Igbos used to refer to the Edo as the Idu or Idun. You can see that Idun and Edun are close.
But I will be back with a more direct after I consult with my Edo brothers.
Lion!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: ...Some Edo <> Mtau Ntr comparisions...
Child: Omo <> Omau
Father: Baba <> Baba
small: khere <> shire
vagina: uhe <> oote
water: amen <> men - pool, lake, canal
...
Good stuff... in the Yoruba dialects, water is 'omin' but if we take out the vowels 'amen' and 'omin' are pretty much the same word.
Posts: 368 | From: Oxford | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Yoruba voodoo shenanigans smacks of the Osiris legend.
The numbers tell it all. Quite shocking.
-------------------- Are we going somewhere or are you going to keep annoying me with your boring lectures professor-warrior?? Posts: 368 | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
Of course bettyboo and the OTHER GUY are incorrect.
you could find EARLY west african civilizations at least has advance has egypt or more advance,i am no saying nok was more advance then egypt but it was a civilization(meaning advanced).
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