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50,000 soldiers believed buried by a cataclysmic sandstorm in 525 B.C.
Hundreds of bleached bones and skulls found in the desolate wilderness of the Sahara desert may be the remains of the long lost Cambyses' army, according to Italian researchers. Alfredo and Angelo Castiglioni
By Rossella Lorenzi updated 11:11 a.m. ET Nov. 9, 2009
The remains of a mighty Persian army said to have drowned in the sands of the western Egyptian desert 2,500 years ago might have been finally located, solving one of archaeology's biggest outstanding mysteries, according to Italian archaeologists.
Bronze weapons, a silver bracelet, an earring and hundreds of human bones found in the vast desolate wilderness of the Sahara desert have raised hopes of finally finding the lost army 50,000 strong of Persian King Cambyses II, buried by a cataclysmic sandstorm in 525 B.C.
"We have found the first archaeological evidence of a story reported by the Greek historian Herodotus," Dario Del Bufalo, a member of the expedition from the University of Lecce, told Discovery News.
According to Herodotus (484-425 B.C.), Cambyses, the son of Cyrus the Great, sent 50,000 soldiers from Thebes to attack the Oasis of Siwa and destroy the oracle at the Temple of Amun. Alexander the Great had famously sought legitimization of his rule from the oracle of Amun in 332 B.C., but according to legend, the oracle would have predicted the death of Cambyses.
After walking for seven days in the desert, the army got to an "oasis," which historians believe was El-Kharga. After they left, they were never seen again.
"A wind arose from the south, strong and deadly, bringing with it vast columns of whirling sand, which entirely covered up the troops and caused them wholly to disappear," wrote Herodotus.
As no trace of the hapless warriors has ever be found, scholars began to dismiss the story as a fanciful tale.
Now, two top Italian archaeologists claim to have found striking evidence that the Persian army was indeed swallowed in a sandstorm. Twin brothers Angelo and Alfredo Castiglioni are already famous for their discovery 20 years ago of the ancient Egyptian "city of gold" Berenike Panchrysos.
Presented recently at the archaeological film festival of Rovereto, the discovery is the result of 13 years of research and five expeditions to the desert.
"It all started in 1996, during an expedition aimed at investigating the presence of iron meteorites near Bahrin, one small oasis not far from Siwa," Alfredo Castiglioni, director of the Eastern Desert Research Center (CeRDO)in Varese, told Discovery News.
While working in the area, the researchers noticed a half-buried pot and some human remains. Then the brothers spotted something really intriguing what could have been a natural shelter.
It was a rock about 114.8 feet long, 5.9 feet in height and 9.8 feet deep. Such natural formations occur in the desert, but this large rock was the only one in a large area.
"Its size and shape made it the perfect refuge in a sandstorm," Castiglioni said.
Right there, the metal detector of Egyptian geologist Aly Barakat of Cairo University located relics of ancient warfare: a bronze dagger and several arrow tips.
"We are talking of small items, but they are extremely important as they are the first Achaemenid objects, thus dating to Cambyses' time, which have emerged from the desert sands in a location quite close to Siwa," Castiglioni said.
About a quarter mile from the natural shelter, the Castiglioni team found a silver bracelet, an earring and few spheres which were likely part of a necklace.
"An analysis of the earring, based on photographs, indicate that it certainly dates to the Achaemenid period. Both the earring and the spheres appear to be made of silver. Indeed a very similar earring, dating to the fifth century B.C., has been found in a dig in Turkey," Andrea Cagnetti, a leading expert of ancient jewelry, told Discovery News.
In the following years, the Castiglioni brothers studied ancient maps and came to the conclusion that Cambyses' army did not take the widely believed caravan route via the Dakhla Oasis and Farafra Oasis.
"Since the 19th century, many archaeologists and explorers have searched for the lost army along that route. They found nothing. We hypothesized a different itinerary, coming from south. Indeed we found that such a route already existed in the 18th Dynasty," Castiglioni said.
According to Castiglioni, from El Kargha the army took a westerly route to Gilf El Kebir, passing through the Wadi Abd el Melik, then headed north toward Siwa.
"This route had the advantage of taking the enemy aback. Moreover, the army could march undisturbed. On the contrary, since the oasis on the other route were controlled by the Egyptians, the army would have had to fight at each oasis," Castiglioni said.
To test their hypothesis, the Castiglioni brothers did geological surveys along that alternative route. They found desiccated water sources and artificial wells made of hundreds of water pots buried in the sand. Such water sources could have made a march in the desert possible.
"Termoluminescence has dated the pottery to 2,500 years ago, which is in line with Cambyses' time," Castiglioni said.
In their last expedition in 2002, the Castiglioni brothers returned to the location of their initial discovery. Right there, some 62 miles south of Siwa, ancient maps had erroneously located the temple of Amun.
The soldiers believed they had reached their destination, but instead they found the khamsin -- the hot, strong, unpredictable southeasterly wind that blows from the Sahara desert over Egypt.
"Some soldiers found refuge under that natural shelter, other dispersed in various directions. Some might have reached the lake of Sitra, thus surviving," Castiglioni said.
At the end of their expedition, the team decided to investigate Bedouin stories about thousands of white bones that would have emerged decades ago during particular wind conditions in a nearby area.
Indeed, they found a mass grave with hundreds of bleached bones and skulls.
"We learned that the remains had been exposed by tomb robbers and that a beautiful sword which was found among the bones was sold to American tourists," Castiglioni said.
Among the bones, a number of Persian arrow heads and a horse bit, identical to one appearing in a depiction of an ancient Persian horse, emerged.
"In the desolate wilderness of the desert, we have found the most precise location where the tragedy occurred," Del Bufalo said.
The team communicated their finding to the Geological Survey of Egypt and gave the recovered objects to the Egyptian authorities.
"We never heard back. I'm sure that the lost army is buried somewhere around the area we surveyed, perhaps under 16.4 feet of sand."
Piero Pruneti, editor of Archeologia Viva, Italy's most important archaeology magazine, is impressed by the team's work.
"Judging from their documentary, their hypothesis of an alternative route is very plausible," Prunetic told Discovery News. "Indeed, the Castiglioni's expeditions are all based on a careful study of the landscape...An in-depth exploration of the area is certainly needed!"
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^ Wow. I wonder what the Iranians have to say about this-- their long lost missing army! LOLPosts: 26260 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Do you think the Irainans would want to have the bones returned and buried in their home-land,after-all I could most def.see Americans doing that...if they were Americans.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Though they were supposedly Persian, the fact that they were in Africa for whatever reason they were there and died in the process, they are now as much a part of the history of that region as they are Persian, or modern Iran or the vicinity thereof. So, IMO, the researchers were justified in handing their finds to Egyptian authorities.
Ps - I suspect some of it will find itself in some Italian museum, when all is said and done.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Do you think the Irainans would want to have the bones returned and buried in their home-land, after-all I could most def.see Americans doing that...if they were Americans.
I don't see what Americans or Iranians have to do with the widespread custom of having people buried in their homeland. I agree with Explorer though that these mens' remains were buried in African soil/sand for over two millennia so I don't know what difference it makes now. My question wasn't whether or not the Iranians would have them buried back home, but what they have to say at all regarding the matter especially the historians.
Posts: 26260 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Well Americans do have a leave no one behind policy..we spend a lot of money brining back our war dead from whereever, and whenever you think after 2,500 bleaching out in the African sun...some might say lets bring our men folks home, remeber the African burial ground on Wall street? discovered while building a new building?..project stopped..building plans changed bodies exhumed and reburied African style.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Yeah, but that would be the modern American state requesting the bringing back of modern American state "property". These fellows may well have been Persians, but they have little to do with the contemporary state of Iran; that's my point. And since, these alleged ancient Persians were in Africa, reportedly for some imperialistic objective, whatever they did then and there, had become a part of African history as well, as it is a part of "Persian heritage". In fact, the very fact that their remains--i.e. if indeed, they are those of said ancient Persians--were recovered on African territory, further underlies this matter of fact.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Well Americans do have a leave no one behind policy..we spend a lot of money brining back our war dead from whereever,
And isn't that what any brave soldier who fought and died for its country on foreign soil should deserve??
And it also brings somehow closure to his loved onces left behind; at least the soldier - his body - returned home.
Now still they are many thousands of American soldiers are buried in Europe where they found a permanent resting place.
My husband visited several military cemeteries over here.
Btw today is Veterans Day.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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We have lots of dead soldiers burried in Egypt, from every corner of the world I guess..with approximately 2500 years of continuous invasions, the beginning was with Cambyses' army of 50K soldiers as you've seen, this specific invasion marked the end of a free Egyptian nation last ruled by Psamtik III who was captured and shipped to Susa the Persian capital.. until it was time for Naguib to rule as the first Egyptian in 1952.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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When a Veteran leaves the 'job' and retires to a better life, many are jealous, some are pleased, and others, who may have already retired, wonder if he knows what he is leaving behind, because we already know.
1. We know, for example, that after a lifetime of camaraderie that few experience, it will remain as a longing for those past times.
2. We know in the Military life there is a fellowship which lasts long after the uniforms are hung up in the back of the closet.
3. We know even if he throws them away, they will be on him with every step and breath that remains in his life. We also know how the very bearing of the man speaks of what he was and in his heart still is.
These are the burdens of the job. You will still look at people suspiciously, still see what others do not see or choose to ignore and always will look at the rest of the Military world with a respect for what they do; only grown in a lifetime of knowing.
Never think for one moment you are escaping from that life. You are only escaping the 'job' and merely being allowed to leave 'active' duty.
So what I wish for you is that whenever you ease into retirement, in your heart you never forget for one moment that you are still a member of the greatest fraternity the world has ever known.
NOW! Civilian Friends vs. Veteran Friends Comparisons
CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Get upset if you're too busy to talk to them for a week. VETERAN FRIENDS: Are glad to see you after years, and will happily carry on the same conversation you were having the last time you met. --------------------------------------------------- CIVILIAN FRI ENDS: Have never seen you cry. VETERAN FRIENDS: Have cried with you. --------------------------------------------------- CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Keep your stuff so long they forget it's yours. VETERAN FRIENDS: Borrow your stuff for a few days then give it back. ------------------------------------------------- CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Know a few things about you. VETERAN FRIENDS: Could write a book with direct quotes from you. --------------------------------------------------- CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Will leave you behind if that's what the crowd is doing. VETERAN FRIENDS: Will kick the crowd's ass that left you behind. --------------------------------------------------- CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Are for a while. VETERAN FRIENDS: Are for life. ---------------------------------------------------------- CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Have shared a few experiences... VETERAN FRIENDS: Have shared a lifetime of experiences no citizen could ever dream of... --------------------------------------------------- CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Will take your drink away when they think you've had enough. VETERAN FRIENDS: Will look at you stumbling all over the place and say, 'You better drink the rest of that before you spill it!' Then carry you home safely and put you to bed... ---------------------------------------------------- CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Will talk crap to the person who talks crap about you. VETERAN FRIENDS: Will knock the hell out OF THEM...for using your name in vain. --------------------------------------------------- CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Will ignore this. VETERAN FRIENDS: Will forward this. ---------------------------------------------------- A veteran - whether active duty, retired, or reserve- is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The Government of the United States of America' for an amount of 'up to and including my life'. . . and military wives are as much veterans as their spouses. From one Veteran to another, it's an honor to be in your company. Thank you Veterans.
A HOOT AND A HOLLA TO ALL YOU VETS OUT THERE ANCIENT OR MODERN FRIEND OR FOE HAPPY VETRAN'S DAYPosts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Wow. How did a topic about an ancient find, as a possible piece of ancient Egyptian history, turn into a homage to pawns of imperialist wars? Was this the agenda behind the posting of this topic all along?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Well pawns for sure, we weren't the chest players..but homage most defeniately to fighting men or pawns of any era,so even 2500yrs in the past and in the continent of my ancestors,where if i had been around they would have been on the receiving end of my arrow or sword. but as an x fighting man I could understand them...plus Tigerlily reminded it's Veterans day... Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Pawn - definition, from a wiki nearby: A pawn is a peon, or other powerless person. It is often a word used to describe someone or something that is used or manipulated.
And from a Merriam-Webster dictionary nearby:
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English pown, from Anglo-French peoun, paun, from Medieval Latin pedon-, pedo foot soldier, from Latin ped-, pes foot more at foot Date: 14th century
1 : one of the chessmen of least value having the power to move only forwardordinarily one square at a time, to capture only diagonally forward, and to be promoted to any piece except a king upon reaching the eighth rank
2 : one that can be used to further the purposes of another
That said, I reiterate: I thought that this topic was about an ancient find that relates to ancient Egypt. It has nothing to do with hypotheticals involving time-travel of one back to the past or modern-day pawns of imperialist wars, as far as I can discern from the head topic...which is why when "Tigerlily" brought the subject of "veteran's day", along with the posts that ensued, I wondered if that was the whole idea behind posting this topic in the first place -- that is to say, this topic was only a "cover" to introduce some sort of celebration to the U.S.A "veteran's day".
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ok!! I understand but I think the thread was introduced a day or two before veterans day. And also correct Military guys are pawns and they know it...an, old military saying ours are not to ask the reason why, ours is to do or die. That's a pawn^.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Don't get me wrong -- unless someone is one of the ruling class, many of us are very prone to being pawns at some level or another, but it is that bit about "not asking for the reason" that I find rather troublesome; anyway, forget that I bring it up.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Egypt, Iran meeting over Cambyses army delayed
Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:29:32 GMT
Egyptian officials have postponed their visit to Iran where they were to discuss the possible location of a Persian army that vanished 25 centuries ago.
There had been reports that the remains of an army led by Persian King Cambyses II had been discovered by the Castiglioni brothers in a small oasis not far from Siwa, Egypt.
Some 50,000 warriors are said to have drowned in a great sandstorm 2,500 years ago.
Egypt's chief archeologist Zahi Hawass, however, rejected the discovery of remains of the Persian army of Cambyses in the Egyptian deserts as "unfounded and misleading."
Following the rise of questions over the location of the legendary lost Persian army, Iran's Cultural Heritage Organization (ICHO) had invited the Egyptian team to Tehran for more interaction and an information exchange between the two countries.
Egyptian officials were scheduled to meet Iranian cultural heritage officials on November 29. Egypt postponed the visit after Hawass's made his claims, IRNA reported.
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The Mullahs of Iran don't give a crap about Cambyses army, only if it was Ali Hussein's army or some other shiite figure would they consider investigating the matter.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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