quote: Using Nubia as a case study, Smith uses the tools of anthropology and archaeology to examine the ancient Egyptian construction of ethnic identities.
quote: About the Author Dr. Stuart Tyson Smith excavates in the Egyptian colonial cemetary at Tombos in Sudanese Nubia. He recreated spoken Egyptian for the movies Stargate , The Mummy, and The Mummy Returns.
Stargate was the first movie I saw on Blu-Ray disc. When the language specialist first hears the "Ancient Egyptian" being spoken he says "It sounds familiar, a bit like Berber, or maybe Chadic, or Omotic?"
Anyway........256 pages, it was published in 2003 and based on the chapters it has the potential to use some of the sources brought up in this very site:
1 Boundaries and ethnicity 1 2 Ethnicity in antiquity 10 3 Ethnicity and archaeology 30 4 Egypt and Nubia 56 5 Life at Askut 97 6 Death at Tombos 136 7 Ideology and the Pharaohs 167 8 Ethnicity, agency, and empire 188
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
The phrase Kush khesyt, cited ad nausea, has been blown far out of proportion. An obvious play on word sounds it means defeated more so than it connotes concepts of contempt. But talk of wretched or vile Kush is irrelevant in understanding how Kmt viewed her southern neighbors and kinsmen. In war talk what enemies aren't described with deprecations? To the contrary we can see that certain families of Kush had a right to the throne of Kmt that was considered the most legitimate of all harking back to the original western (Greek) notion that Egypt originated when Aithiopians settled downriver.
Will the author include any of this type of material?
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Firstoff, I admit immediate prejudice against Smith and his book just from the title alone. I scanned its 2nd chapter, Ethnicity in Antiquity, and found Smith transfering modern racial superiority notions onto the ancients.
Smith says AE ethnic ideology was similar to Yugoslav Macedonia, Nazi Germany, and Croatia, Bosnia, and Herzegovina, and apartheid South Africa, in setting up "oppositional ethnic categories for political ends."
"Thus Kush, the ancient toponym of Upper Nubia, was transformed into 'Wretched Kush' after the Egyptian New Kingdom conquest. 'Wretched' connotes not only inferiority, but also a sense of foreordained failure in any rebellion against Egyptian authority."
Smith goes on to overwhelmingly fill the pages of the chapter with comments on ethnic groups who are neither Egyptian, Nehhesu, or even ancients. When Smith's attention does focus itself on his book's subject he does things like produce a map of the region using Rosellini's cartoonish rendition of Ra's Herd rather than the facsimile by Lepsius. The reason being to prove AE's made stereotypes as done recently in history.
But Smith is forced to admit there was absolutely no racism denying employment, housing, nor marriage. "The ancient Egyptian construction of ethnic identities thus reflects cultural chauvinism more than racism." What does he mean "more than racism?" There was no racism at all, yet Smith cannot divorce that concept from his approach. Thus he introduces the idea of foreigners as animals.
Smith quotes assimilies and metaphors from the literature in an attempt to prove AEs actually thought of foreigners as less than human. "... foreigners ... were not people at all." No? Then why do we see them in the afterlife receiving Osirian Resurrection?
Although this chapter leaves a bad impression in my mind, I will return to this book written in 2003 in hope of something salvagely positive and thus useful.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
That is actually disappointing to here, I was really looking froward to this book. After looking for a decent NEW book on Ancient Sudan this was one of the alternatives that i found vs a book brought up here before :
"From Slave to Pharaoh: The Black Experience of Ancient Egypt"
I hear the book above was complete trash......I thought this would be a better alternative. I even read a few reviews of it being unbiased. Well we will see.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I read Redford's book and was not impressed. The title of the book is presumptuous for one thing. Redford claims to be documenting "the black Experience" but the "black experience" does not begin when Egypt conquered parts of Nubia. It begins with the hustling Saharans and Sudanics that populated the Nile Valley and created the dynastic civilization- the people of the Nabata Playa, the Badari, the Naqada and others up the line. He skips over this entirely, jumping quickly to "wretched Kush" as if this was the sum total of the initial "experience." He does not deal with the Nubian pharaohs of the 12th dynasty, or the near conquest of Egypt by the Kushites approx 1000 years before the 25th Dynasty either. He has a clear ideological agenda in the book, which he admits in the foreword. It is to reply to certain people who he identifies more or less as "Afrocenrists." He claims that various tomb inscriptions will let the ancients "speak in their own words" - implying that the sum total of the "experience" is slavery, etc..
But as noted above the "experience" is the foundation of the dynastic civilization, not some foreign add-on. And "the experience" is rooted in cultural, DNA, skeletal, crnial and bio-anthropological proof from the very foundations of Egyptian civilization. The combined data from these areas is much more reliable than propagandist tomb inscriptions talking 'bout "wretched Kush." Egyptian-Nubian conflict was routine political conflict not "racial" but he tries to spin it the opposite way, in essence playing the same "race card" he accuses others of. ANd as we all know so-called "Asiatics" or what would be known as today's "Middle easterners" were also dubbed "wretched" along with "troglydytes" and a host of other epithets. This balance however makes scant appearance in the book compared to lengthy quotations about allegedly "wretched" Kush.
The Smith books sounds much better although as Takuri rightly notes it should be read with caution for possible racial models sophiscatedly packaged in the language of ethnic identity. In any event, the Nubians were the closest ethnically to the Egyptians making the "racial" claims of many, irrelevant.
SMith does have some interesting quotes as follows:
"..the Egyptians did not engage in the kind of racial prejudice seen in modern times. Modern racism largely revolves around differences in skin color. In particular, dark skin color was (and with some groups unfortunately still is) a sign of inferiority, regardless of individual achievement and sophistication. Miscegenation, or racial intermarriage, was considered immoral. At its worst, skin color distinguished between slaves and slaves and free people in the American South. In contrast, the ancient Egyptians, and indeed ancient Mediterranean peoples in general, did not make skin color a definitive criterion for racial discrimination (Snowden 1983). Slavery was not connected to race or even class. Royce (1982) notes that ethnic definitions stressing phenotype can inhibit the ability of individuals to cross ethnic boundaries, but the separation of language and culture (costume, hair style, etc) from biological phenotype (skin color, facial features), in social practice if not ideology, meant that foreigners could cross ethnic boundaries.
For example, Nubians like solider and royal confidant Mahirper achieved high position in Egyptian society as long as they assimilated to Egyptian cultural norms. Mahirper was raised at the Egyptian court with the future Pharaoh, and so may have been son of a Nubian prince. He held the important military title 'Fanbearer to the Right of the King." he was buried in the valley of the Kings, a privilege reserved only for kings and there immediate relatives. the burial itself was quote Lavish, with, among other things, high -quality coffins and expensive jewelry, reflecting Mahirper''s wealth and position.. In his Book of the Dead, he appears in every way Egyptian, except for his skin color and facial features (phenotype), which fit the Nubian stereotype.. In a similar way, Nubian mercenaries who settled in Egypt during the First Intermediate Period (c. 2150-2050 B.C.) were depicted on Egyptian funerary stelae in Egyptian dress with their Egyptian wives, but with Nubian physiognomy... Nubians, Asiatics and other peoples married freely with the Egyptians, and salves were sometimes adopted into Egyptian families, at least among the elite. Asiatic gods and goddesses even found a place in the Egyptian pantheon (Redford 1992). It was the cultural identity of immigrants to Egypt that mattered to their success in Egyptian society, not their skin color or ancestry. Even when foreigners remained culturally foreign, more prosaic sources allowed that foreigners could act in positive ways and be incorporated into the civilized sphere. the ancient Egyptian construction of ethnic identities this reflects cultural chauvinism more than racism."
--Stuart Tyson Smith. (2003) Wretched Kush: ethnic identities and boundaries in Egypt's Nubian empire. Routledge, pp. 22-24
=======================================
And speaking of those who like to talk about "wretched Kush in racial terms, here's what could be said of "white" Asiatics. The non-white Egyptians were quite unflattering to these touted "Cakazoids" per Smith:
[quotes from --Stuart Tyson Smith. (2003) Wretched Kush: ethnic identities and boundaries in Egypt's Nubian empire. Routledge, pp. 28-31) substitute "white" or "Caucasoid" for "Asiatic" if you like "racial" models.
"The Instruction for King, Merikare takes a similar tone for peoples in the north (Lichtheim 1973: 10404):
Lo the miserable Asiatic, He is wretched because of the place he's in: Short of water, bare of wood, Its paths are many and painful because of mountains. He does not dwell in one place, Food propels his legs, He fights since the time of Horus.. He does not announce the day of combat, Like a thief who darts about a group.."
more quotes
"Asiatics are both cowardly and pitiful, leading a marginal existence, constantly fighting but with nothing ever settled. They are also sly and ultimately treacherous, attacking without warning. This passage characterizes Asiatics as both primitive and threatening.. In this case, the passage reflects Egypt's combination of colonial domination and outright military conflict.."
Merikare goes on (Lichtheim 1976: 103-104)
The Asiatic is a crocodile on its shore It snatches from a lonely road, It cannot seize a populous town.
"Along the same lines, the Prophecy of Neferti (c. 1950 BC) portrays Asiatic immigrants as a flock of rapacious birds descending on Egypt, taking advantage of civil wars of the First Intermediate Period (c. 2150 - 2050 BC) to infiltrate parts of the rich Egyptian delta (Lichtheim 1973: 141):
A strange bird will breed in the delta marsh, having made its nest besides the people.. All happiness is vanished, The land is bowed down in distress, Owing to those feeders, Asiatics who roam the land..
--Smith pg 27-30
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Smith says AE ethnic ideology was similar to Yugoslav Macedonia, Nazi Germany, and Croatia, Bosnia, and Herzegovina, and apartheid South Africa, in setting up "oppositional ethnic categories for political ends."
Not only is his argument flawed but his list is incomplete. He should have included Israel, don't you think?
posted
Go back over some of the old threads... you guys had solved the old lump em and dump em by calling them all Nubians spiel by correctly recognizing their proper names and thus the different political situation at any given time. It is too bad that most here still continue with the same ol Nubia is a place or civilization separate from Kemet.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Go back over some of the old threads... you guys had solved the old lump em and dump em by calling them all Nubians spiel by correctly recognizing their proper names and thus the different political situation at any given time. It is too bad that most here still continue with the same ol Nubia is a place or civilization separate from Kemet.
True, it's a racist code word used to perpetuate a myth..,
quote: I think that it's about time that we start phasing out the term "Nubia" as a euphemism for "Negro"; "Ethiopian" ; ad nauseum -- This, of course, will not be easy. It took how long for 'coloreds' and 'negroes' to correctly identify ourselves as 'Africans: African-Americans' ?
Reasons to not use the term:
a) There is no region or people in the Mtau Ntr called "Nubians"; this was applied by the Romans to the gold mining region of Upper Egypt/Sudan, and comes from the Mtau Ntr "nub" for gold...
b) In the Mtau Ntr "Nubi;Nubiu" simply means 'gold miner(s)' or 'goldsmiths'...
c) Kush/Ekush (Kushi/Ekushi) was in what is now Upper Egypt/Sudan and is NOT "Nubia"...
d) Ethaosh are the contries on the frontier of Kemet...
e) Saba/Sheba (Meroe) is in the same region and it also is NOT "Nubia"...
f) The proper term for "Negroes"; "Ethiopians" would be "Kememu"...
..."kememu" is found in Budge's dictionary and is derived from the root word "kemem"; to be, or become black.
Keep in mind that the Mtau Ntr is not a dead language, only a suppressed one , relegated to the liturgy of the modern Coptic church. Without leaving Egypt, let's take a look at an example of its modern usage:
SAHIDIC COPTIC
Black
kame....black (Mtau Ntr: Kmt) kemi....black (Mtau Ntr: Kmt) kmme....black (Mtau Ntr: Kmmt) kmom....be, become black (Mtau Ntr: Kmm)
The "W" or "OU" placed at the end of a word means "ones" or plural; so in modern Coptic, Kmmou means "Black ones", or "Blacks" it's that simple. And this word has been used, as far as has been recorded, from the beginning of Ancient Egyptian civilization...
"Egyptologists" have been taught to use camouflaged terms such as 'Egypt' or 'Egyptians' rather than 'Black Nation - Km.t nw' or 'Blacks - kmemou' for obvious reasons...
posted
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The myth-makers would prefer to opinionate; give their own interpretations of 'reality', while deliberately ignoring the statements of the people being discussed themselves, when it contradicts their preconceived notions or intent.
The above illustration is the oldest ethnographic classification on record, and reading from left to right, the words describing the ethnic figures are:
posted
I with you on that most definately,but we need the help of academidia because they are the ones holding classes and more likely to write books,papers etc. also I do not use the word Egypt when talking about the dynastic period, when I use the word Egypt.... pyramids,Arabic speaking folks,camels, minarets comes to mind...but when I use the term Kemet a whole different civilization appears in my mine's eye.
This should go for the kemetic and kushtite names for their cities as well names like Waset,Nowie,On-Seti etc should be use in place of Arabic or Greco-Roman names change Luxor back to Waset,It feels different.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: I'm with you on that most definitely,but we need the help of academia because they are the ones holding classes and more likely to write books,papers etc...
But we are receiving the help of Academia (even right here on this forum);
Dr. Winters, a regular contributor here, is a member of the Academia
Dr. Obenga, is a member of the Academia
Dr. Diop, is a legend of Academia
as well as countless others who also are part of the Academia and who write scholarly papers, books...
But, I fear that you're talking about the reactionary, racists of Academia and if you're thinking of convincing them to give up their distorted views, then you're waiting for Winter to come and freeze hell...
I always like to quote the brilliant Kwame Nkrumah, and one of my favorites is "Time and truth are inseparable." We have the truth, so it's just a matter of time...
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Go back over some of the old threads... you guys had solved the old lump em and dump em by calling them all Nubians spiel by correctly recognizing their proper names and thus the different political situation at any given time. It is too bad that most here still continue with the same ol Nubia is a place or civilization separate from Kemet.
True, it's a racist code word used to perpetuate a myth..,
quote: I think that it's about time that we start phasing out the term "Nubia" as a euphemism for "Negro"; "Ethiopian" ; ad nauseum -- This, of course, will not be easy. It took how long for 'coloreds' and 'negroes' to correctly identify ourselves as 'Africans: African-Americans' ?
Reasons to not use the term:
a) There is no region or people in the Mtau Ntr called "Nubians"; this was applied by the Romans to the gold mining region of Upper Egypt/Sudan, and comes from the Mtau Ntr "nub" for gold...
b) In the Mtau Ntr "Nubi;Nubiu" simply means 'gold miner(s)' or 'goldsmiths'...
c) Kush/Ekush (Kushi/Ekushi) was in what is now Upper Egypt/Sudan and is NOT "Nubia"...
d) Ethaosh are the contries on the frontier of Kemet...
e) Saba/Sheba (Meroe) is in the same region and it also is NOT "Nubia"...
f) The proper term for "Negroes"; "Ethiopians" would be "Kememu"...
..."kememu" is found in Budge's dictionary and is derived from the root word "kemem"; to be, or become black.
Keep in mind that the Mtau Ntr is not a dead language, only a suppressed one , relegated to the liturgy of the modern Coptic church. Without leaving Egypt, let's take a look at an example of its modern usage:
SAHIDIC COPTIC
Black
kame....black (Mtau Ntr: Kmt) kemi....black (Mtau Ntr: Kmt) kmme....black (Mtau Ntr: Kmmt) kmom....be, become black (Mtau Ntr: Kmm)
The "W" or "OU" placed at the end of a word means "ones" or plural; so in modern Coptic, Kmmou means "Black ones", or "Blacks" it's that simple. And this word has been used, as far as has been recorded, from the beginning of Ancient Egyptian civilization...
"Egyptologists" have been taught to use camouflaged terms such as 'Egypt' or 'Egyptians' rather than 'Black Nation - Km.t nw' or 'Blacks - kmemou' for obvious reasons...
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The myth-makers would prefer to opinionate; give their own interpretations of 'reality', while deliberately ignoring the statements of the people being discussed themselves, when it contradicts their preconceived notions or intent.
The above illustration is the oldest ethnographic classification on record, and reading from left to right, the words describing the ethnic figures are:
posted
The article is pedantic and merely reflects the subjectivism of those who write about the Ancient Egyptians as if they were illiterate mutes!
The Mtau Ntr informs us explicitly; who they were, where they came from... everything we need to know about the Kememou!
This doesn't require volumes...which is basically run-around-evasive b.s.
...It's like the Europeans looking for the source of the Nile - stupid!
If I'm in your home and I need to use your bathroom, I simply ask your permission, and then ask where is your bathroom...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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Its not a bad article, and it says it was for her PHd thesis in 2004. But it's missing quite a bit on the scientific/anthropology/archaeology side. The "Afrocentrists" she mentions are primarily writers of the 1980s and there is a focus on the martin Bernal/mary Lefkowitz "Black Athena" arguments of the early 1990s. There are fine as a matter of historical reference but makes her analysis weaker.
She does not even reference Keita, one of the key scholars in the field. Indeed she references Afrocentric critic Howe's 1996 "Afrocenrism: Imagined pasts and mythical homes" but Howe himself references the work of Keita, as does Mary Lefkowitz in Out of Africa. Like Howe's book, her writing is weak in analysis of the pertinent anthropological and archaeological data on the ground. Any comprehensive discussion of ethnic identity should include this anthropopogy/archaeological material. If the Nubians are ethnically the closest people to the Egyptians, as Yurco himself said in 1989, it does call into question an wide range of 'racial' claims about 'wretched Kush.'
She had plenty to work with- as far back as Keita's groundbreaking 'Studies of ancient Crania from Northern Africa", Celenko's 1996- Egypt in Africa, etc etc. and theenthere are the scientists who dispute the concept of race altogether. She references Nancy Lovell, but as far back as 1999 Nancy Lovell said:
"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas."
"[Such data] must be placed in the context of hypotheses informed by archaeological, linguistic, geographic and other data. In such contexts, the physical anthropological evidence indicates that early Nile Valley populations can be identified as part of an African lineage, but exhibiting local variation. This variation represents the short and long term effects of evolutionary forces, such as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection, influenced by culture and geography." ("Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999). pp 328-332
Her analysis includes none of this fundamental material, which was well in place before her writing, just as Howe's analysis skirts around it without serious engagement. He finds it easier to talk about a "curmudgeonly" Diop at the 1974 UNESCO conference, but glides quickly over or skips altogether what Yurco above says, the many tropical limb proportion studies, or any in-depth engagement with Keita. A better marking point I think is Aaron Kamigusha's "Finally in Africa" which talks too about the Kush issue. http://wysinger.homestead.com/finally.html
Still she has some references of interest in there such as to Brunson below. Anyone care to critique this blurb in her paper:
Some of the Afrocentrists, however, have used deductions based on religious color symbolism to further argue that the ancient Egyptians were black. For example, James Brunson, an art historian at Northern Illinois University pointed out that the graphics did not portray a dark-red race.179 He argued that the red and yellow symbolic use applied exclusively to the Egyptians who were actually black. He further supported the assertion, “In their paintings, the Egyptians cared little for whether non- Egyptians would maintain their spirit, thus portrayed them in their natural hues.”180To explain the presence of purely black Egyptian statuary in the Old Kingdom, Brunson extended the symbolism to the color black.
According to Brunson, black “held a significant position in ancient Nile Valley spirituality-inextricably bound to the conceptual cycle of life, death and rebirth.”181 This argument holds ground as far as explaining why the ancient Egyptian portrayed some of their gods black. However, by arguing, “After unification [Old Kingdom], black was used solely for gods and the pharaoh. By Middle Kingdom however, this right was extended to other members,”182 Brunson contradicts his basic argument. If the right to symbolically use black was extended to other non-royal members, and if the ancient Egyptians were black, how would the depictions of ancient Egyptians in non-black hues after the Middle Kingdom be explained?
(James Brunson “The Dark Red Race Myth” in Ivan Van Sertima’s Egypt Revisited: Journal of African Civilizations (New Brunswick : Transaction Publishers,1993),54-55)
in
ANCIENT EGYPTIAN IDENTITY by Eva Nthoki Mwanika
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I think this article will be important to this discussion. What do you think:
posted
This topic was discussed tll too many times as well. Epithets like 'wretched' and 'vile' was nothing more than war-talk based on the the rivalry Egypt had with Kush and yes Kush was a powerful and potent rival!
As Yurco put it in a response to Emily Vermeule's attack on Martin Bernal:
The reason for the virulence of the Egyptian attack on Kush in early Dynasty 18, is not based on racial hatred as Vermuele claimed, but has its roots in the discovery that Kamose made and which he inscribed on his second stela, discovered in 1954. In that stela, he states that his troops captured a Hyksos messenger on the oasis road headed south to Kush. His message was, Kamose is attacking the Hyksos king on the southern end of Hyksos ruled Egypt. You have arisen as king without letting me (the Hyksos king) know, but as Kamose is attacking me, you strike him in the rear (from Kush into Upper Egypt), and then we will divide up this Egypt between your land and mine. That is why the attack when it came was so virulent. The Egyptians had realized that the Hyksos were allied to the Kushites, with the Dynasty 17 squeezed in between. The capture of this message drove home the plight of Egypt. Already Seqenenre Ta'aa had died in battle against the Hyksos, and now this, a Hyksos-Kushite alliance. Proof of the alliance has also come from seals with Hyksos names found in the Kushite burial mounds, and Hyksos style pottery also. So, this accounts for the virulent attack on Kush that really took off only after the Hyksos were driven from Egypt. However, since the Kushites had been in this alliance that could have wiped out Egypt in a moment, the Egyptians obviously had it in for both powers once they became masters of their own fate again. Thus there is no need to invoke racial hatred, in Thutmose hanging the Kushite chief head downward from his flagship, but solely the political realization that the Kushites had been allied with the Hyksos, and that the two allied powers had come within a blink of wiping out Egypt and its pharaonic state. Most sincerely, Frank J. Yurco University of Chicago
Besides, the man whom Thutmose hung from his boat prow was technically not Kushite but Antwy who were a people allied with Kush but also a traditional enemy of Egypt.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ Forgot to add that Yurco stated elsewhere that if Egypt's hostility toward Kushites was 'racial' then what are we to make of hostilities Upper Egyptians had with Lower Egyptians as shown in the Narmer Palette with bondaged captives and decapitated bodies of Lower Egyptians?..
What's funny is that with more and more evidence both archaeologically and anthropologically showing the close genetic relation between Egyptians and Nubian peoples including Kushites, you have some Eurocentrics that are trying to white-wash Nubians! So I guess it's no longer a 'race war' but a political one if they are both white?! LMAOPosts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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