All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
PRELIMINARY DISCOURSE...
Posted by Wally on 11 December, 2004 12:49 PM:
I originally stated that the determinative Nwt (nu) applied only to Ancient Egyptian settlements - which is true, and from that we got a brilliant suggestion from Kem-Au:
quote:Originally posted by Kem-Au: Wally a good research project would be to see if Egyptians used this "x" determinant in any cities we now call Nubia. This would give us a better understanding of where Egyptians thought their southern border was.
So, I thought I'd take a look see, and here's what I found (EWB; -Geographical Names): Now, conventional ideas on Ancient Egypt's southern border was that it ended at Aswan. Not according to the Ancient Egyptians:
Qenus (Nwt) 1044b - Southern Nubia
Kenus (Nwt/Khast) - Southern Nubia - the contemporary Kenus are a Nubian ethnic group (ie, real Nubians)
Ta Khent (Nwt) 1051b - Land of the beginning; the southern Sudan
Berua (Nwt) 980a - Meroe; capital of the kingdom of Meroe
Masha (Nwt) a town in Sudan
Merowe (Nwt/Khast) 997a - Meroe
Meroe (Nwt) 1001a
Some Sudanese towns with the Nu determinative; there are quite a few others as well
Tar...Shema 1053b Ta het Khenti - 1027 - The Leader/Chief/Founder
Other significants
Khent hen Nefer (Khast) 1028a - "Head of the perfect order" - southern Sudan from whence came the Khentiu (Khentou) Hon Nefer - "Founders of the Perfect Order" ie, Kememou civilization...
Ta Set (Nwt) 1051b - district in Upper Egypt Ta Sti (Khast) 1051b - "Land of the Bow" ie, Nubia
...SO, NOW LET US TAKE A LOOK AT THE GLYPHS FOR 'ARABIA' NOTE THAT IN THE FIRST GLYPH, THE DETERMINATIVES ARE 'FOREIGN' + "ATEB" OR LAND, WHEREAS IN THE SECOND GLYPH, THE DETERMINATIVES ARE 'FOREIGN' + NWT; WHICH WOULD INDICATE A KEMEMOU SETTLEMENT OR A KEMEMOU POSSESION...
WE CAN PERHAPS GET A BETTER GRASP IF WE COMPARE THIS WITH AN ASIAN NATION THAT WE KNOW WAS ALSO A BLACK NATION...
ELAM NOTE THE DETERMINATIVES 'KHAST' + 'NWT'
THIS IS THE CLOSEST CONCRETE DOCUMENTATION THAT I CAN PROVIDE IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION...Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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It still doesn't provide pictures of the people. Even if they have the Niwt determinative, which simply means settlement, and they depicted the people as whites, the sign would mean nothing.
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quote:It still doesn't provide pictures of the people. Even if they have the Niwt determinative, which simply means settlement, and they depicted the people as whites, the sign would mean nothing.
In lieu of art images, the glyphs are NOT meaningless but rather a significant indicator; which then would require deductive reasoning...
a) The 'Nwt' glyph (pronounced Nee.oo) does not merely mean 'settlement' - it means a Kememou settlement as...
b) The 'Khast' glyph represents/means a 'settlement of foreigners'.
This topic, of course, has little or no relevancy to the category of this forum - Egyptology, nevertheless...
If one accepts the mono-genetic origin of humans, one of the principle routes of migration out of Africa was Arabia, thus the phenotype of these original African Arabians would have to be Black.
--The modern phenotype of Arabians, like the similar historical development of the modern Berber speaking peoples, is multi-hued, ranging from White to Black. Palestinian Arabs regard the Yemeni Arabs as Blacks...
--The Arabic language is an African originated language; The Berber language is African, Germanic, etc...
If one wants, for whatever reason, to see an artistic depiction of the Arabs in Ancient Egyptian art, then look for the glyphs I listed above next to the art work, the Ancient Egyptians didn't just draw pictures...
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I understand what you're saying brother Wally, but the glyphs would not be a substitute for images depicting the people. I am just trying to see, if the "Black" Arabs were such a force to recon with as Dr. Wesley Muhammad claims, then there should be some depictions of them by the Egyptians as a distinct people. So I am trying to see did the Black Egyptians recognize "Black Arabs?"
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^ You might want to ask Dana, since the peoples of Arabia especially during pre-Islamic times is her expertise. I don't know if she's around at the moment, though.
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I understand what you're saying brother Wally, but the glyphs would not be a substitute for images depicting the people. I am just trying to see, if the "Black" Arabs were such a force to recon with as Dr. Wesley Muhammad claims, then there should be some depictions of them by the Egyptians as a distinct people. So I am trying to see did the Black Egyptians recognize "Black Arabs?"
I doubt if such depictions existed, or rather if they had been discovered, that they wouldn't have been taken advantage of by now. The closest to your question would be several depictions of black Sumerians and Elamites, whose ancesters migrated from Arabia. But I doubt you haven't seen those depictions yet. Other leads are either skeletally and written accounts of various Arabian populations being referred to as Kush and Misr, by Assyrians and other ancient populations. Also, all sons of Kush including Kush himself should be sought in Arabia rather than Africa, according to the bible.
posted
What do u mean by black arabs and Wesley Muhammed is who apart of the nation of islam.
Arabs are Arabs no matter if they are dark complextion or light complextion.
NO arab people have ever been labeled black white green or purple but arab tradition claims that the true arabs color is Aswad
Posts: 410 | From: Al-Ard | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
Asar this should give you a picture of what the Arabs who conquered Egypt in the 7th century looked like:
Ubada ibn Al-Samit was a pure, noble Arab from his mother's side of the family and his father's side of the family. His father and mother were descendants of Saba, who are descendants of Qahtan.
Amru ibn Al-Aas (the Arab leader who was sent to conquer Egypt) assigned him to head a group of ten people to meet Muqawqis/Mikakaus (the Greek ruler of Egypt).
Ubada ibn Al-Samit was black-skinned (black meant black then)and he was over seven feet tall. When they sailed to meet Muqawqis and entered his court, Ubada ibn Al-Samit came forward to speak and Muqawqis became afraid of him because of his blackness and he said, "Get this black man away from me and send forward someone else to speak to me!" The others said, "Verily this black-skinned man is the most superior of us in opinion and knowledge. He is our master and the best amongst us and the preferred above us. We all follow his word and his opinion. The Amir (Commander) gave him command instead of us and he commanded us to obey him." Muqawqis then said to the delegation, "How can you be content with this black-skinned person being the most superior of you?! He should be the lowest of you." The members of the delegation then said, "No way! Verily, even though he is black-skinned, as you can see, he is from amongst the most superior of us in rank and priority and in intelligence, sense and judgement. Black skin is something normal amongst us." Maqawqis then said to Ubada, "Come forward oh black one and speak softly to me. Your blackness frightens me. If you speak too loudly you will make me more afraid." Ubada then came forward and said, "I've heard what you said and I inform you that amongst my companions that I left behind me in my camp are 1000 men as black as I am and blacker than I am and more shocking in appearance! If you saw them, you would be more afraid of them than you are of me!"
وبعثه عمرو بن العاص في عشرة نفر لمقابلة المقوقس، وكان عبادة بن الصامت أسود اللون، فلما ركبوا السفن إلى المقوقس ودخلوا عليه، تقدم عبادة، فهابه المقوقس لسواده، فقال: نحُّـو عني هذا الأسود، وقدموا غيره يكلمني. فقالوا: إن هذا الأسود أفضلنا رأياً وعلماً، وهو سيدنا وخيرنا، والمقدَّم علينا، وإنا نرجع جميعنا إلى قوله ورأيه، وقد أمّره الأمير دوننا بما أمّره به، وأمرنا ألا نخالف رأيه وقوله. فقال المقوقس للوفد: وكيف رضيتم أن يكون هذا الأسود أفضلكم، وإنما ينبغي أن يكون دونكم؟. قالوا: كلا! إنه وإن كان أسود كما ترى، فإنه من أفضلنا موضعاً وأفضلنا سابقة وعقلاً ورأياً، وليس ينكر السود فينا. فقال المقوقس لعبادة: تقدم يا أسود وكلمني برفق فإني أهاب سوادك، وإن اشتد عليّ كلامك ازددت لك هيبة. فتقدم إليه عبادة فقال: قد سمعت مقالتك، وإن فيمن خلَّفت من أصحابي ألف رجل أسود كلهم مثلي، وأشد سواداً مني وأفظع منظراً، ولو رأيتهم لكنت أهيب لهم مني
By the way, Amru ibn Al-Aas, who was the Arab Commander of the army that conquered Egypt, was also black-skinned. He was from the noble Arab tribe of Quraish. Ibn Kathir says in his book Al-Bidaaya Wa Al-Nihaaya:
"He (Amru ibn Al-Aas) was black-skinned, tall, and bald. May Allah be content with him."
وكان أسمر، شديد السمرة، طويلا، أصلع رضي الله عنه
When the Muslim soldiers conquered Egypt, Al-Zubair ibn Al-Awwam, the cousin of the Prophet Mohamed and the nephew of Khadija - the first wife of the Prophet Mohamed, was the first to climb over the fortress. Al-Zubair ibn Al-Awwam was described as follows:
"He (Al-Zubair ibn Al-Awwam) was thin-bearded, dark-skinned, hairy, and tall."
كان خفيف اللحية أسمر اللون، كثير الشعر، طويلاً
Here is how it happened:
"When the Muslim army, during their conquest of Egypt, stood in front of the Babylon Fortress (Old Cairo) and the siege extended to seven months, he (Al-Zubair ibn Al-Awwam) stood and said to Amru ibn Al-Aas, "Oh Amru! I volunteer myself in the name of Allah. I hope that Allah will cause this to be a victory for the Muslims." Amru agreed to that so he (Al-Zubair) came forward and placed a ladder and climbed it. And he said "Allah is Great!" and the soldiers said the same and the fortress fell to the Musims"
حينما وقف المسلمون أمام حصن بابليون فى فتح مصر، وامتد الحصار سبعة أشهر، وقف ليقول لعمرو بن العاص: يا عمرو، إنى أهب نفسى لله، أرجو أن يفتح الله بذلك على المسلمين فوافقه عمرو على ذلك، فتقدم ووضع سُلَّمًا وصعد عليه ثم كبَّر وكبَّر الجند، وفُتِح الحصن.
Mohamed Ibn Maslama also climbed the fortress. Mohamed Ibn Maslama was an Arab from the tribe of Aws, who were from Saba, who were from Qahtan. Al-Dhahabi says in his book Siyar A'laam Al-Nubalaa:
"Ibn Younis says that Mohamed Ibn Maslama took part in the conquest of Egypt and that he was amongst those who climbed over the fortress with Al-Zubair."
قال ابن يونس شهد محمد فتح مصر وكان فيمن طلع الحصن مع الزبير
Al-Dhahabi also says:
"Ubada ibn Rufaa'a says that Mohamed ibn Maslama was black-skinned, tall, and huge."
قال عباية بن رفاعة كان محمد بن مسلمة أسود طويلا عظيما
This should give you an idea of what the Arabs who conquered Egypt in the 7th century looked like.
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Although this is good information, it still doesn't answer my question. My question specifically asked if there were any drawings, depictions of BLACK ARABS in ANY of the ancient Egyptian reliefs? If they were familiar with people as far as Assyria and showed other white Asiatics, then they definitely would have been familiar with Black Arabs in Arabia. I haven't seen any pictures of them and wanted to know if anyone has seen any pictures. I am looking for reliefs, not AD quotes after the fall of Egypt.
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Philistines may be a good example of the people coming from Arabia and settling in Palestine and the Aegean before 900 B.C..
Kamal Salibi found the names of Ghat, Ascalon, Ashdod (Es Shedad)and other of the Philistine cities mentioned in the Hebrew texts as being destroyed in Yemen. See the Bible Came from Arabia. Ghayt (Ghat) is still the name of a Mahra clan of Hadramaut and Oman.
We have to remember the people coming from Arabia and settling in Syria and Egypt were called by names other than "Arabs". Hyksos for example and Fenkhu (Phoenicians) from the Eritraean Sea, Meluhha (Amalekites) and Misra. The Philistines for eample were said to be a remnant of the Anakim of Canaan which was the lowland area stretching southward of Mecca. The Anakim (Nakhi)we are also told Amlikhu in the Hebrew texts including the Bible were called Amim (Umayma), Rephaim, and were the people controlling the area of Hejaz who gained control over Syria and Egypt in the 2nd millenium B.C. Someone has already posted a number of Hyksos representations on this forum somewhere.
The Fenkhu (Fanikha or Phoenicians) were also portrayed dark brown and red brown in Egyptian representations. They no doubt correspond to the people called Nakh'l El Nakha, Danakil and Nakhawil living along the Red Sea coasts in Arabia and Africa.
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Most of the people that were known to have been occupying Arabia during Amarna period are not represented in color but in bas relief. Djehuti, for example, found a great bas relief depiction from Egypt of the Shasu of the Se'ir region a people known to have inhabited South Arabia. They look like a giant people.
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quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: What do u mean by black arabs and Wesley Muhammed is who apart of the nation of islam.
Arabs are Arabs no matter if they are dark complextion or light complextion.
NO arab people have ever been labeled black white green or purple but arab tradition claims that the true arabs color is Aswad
If you are going to put something about arab tradition or about the color of Arabs black or "Aswad" this is a good time to start bringing forth your references since this is what Tariq has been saying all along. As anyone who has read history on the Arabs knows, Arabians evidently called themselves "Akhdar" and "Khudar". What does this word mean literally?.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Philistines may be a good example of the people coming from Arabia and settling in Palestine and the Aegean before 900 B.C..
Kamal Salibi found the names of Ghat, Ascalon, Ashdod (Es Shedad)and other of the Philistine cities mentioned in the Hebrew texts as being destroyed in Yemen. See the Bible Came from Arabia. Ghayt (Ghat) is still the name of a Mahra clan of Hadramaut and Oman.
We have to remember the people coming from Arabia and settling in Syria and Egypt were called by names other than "Arabs". Hyksos for example and Fenkhu (Phoenicians) from the Eritraean Sea, Meluhha (Amalekites) and Misra. The Philistines for eample were said to be a remnant of the Anakim of Canaan which was the lowland area stretching southward of Mecca. The Anakim (Nakhi)we are also told Amlikhu in the Hebrew texts including the Bible were called Amim (Umayma), Rephaim, and were the people controlling the area of Hejaz who gained control over Syria and Egypt in the 2nd millenium B.C. Someone has already posted a number of Hyksos representations on this forum somewhere.
The Fenkhu (Fanikha or Phoenicians) were also portrayed dark brown and red brown in Egyptian representations. They no doubt correspond to the people called Nakh'l El Nakha, Danakil and Nakhawil living along the Red Sea coasts in Arabia and Africa.
Where did the AE use the term Meluhha?
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Philistines may be a good example of the people coming from Arabia and settling in Palestine and the Aegean before 900 B.C..
Kamal Salibi found the names of Ghat, Ascalon, Ashdod (Es Shedad)and other of the Philistine cities mentioned in the Hebrew texts as being destroyed in Yemen. See the Bible Came from Arabia. Ghayt (Ghat) is still the name of a Mahra clan of Hadramaut and Oman.
We have to remember the people coming from Arabia and settling in Syria and Egypt were called by names other than "Arabs". Hyksos for example and Fenkhu (Phoenicians) from the Eritraean Sea, Meluhha (Amalekites) and Misra. The Philistines for eample were said to be a remnant of the Anakim of Canaan which was the lowland area stretching southward of Mecca. The Anakim (Nakhi)we are also told Amlikhu in the Hebrew texts including the Bible were called Amim (Umayma), Rephaim, and were the people controlling the area of Hejaz who gained control over Syria and Egypt in the 2nd millenium B.C. Someone has already posted a number of Hyksos representations on this forum somewhere.
The Fenkhu (Fanikha or Phoenicians) were also portrayed dark brown and red brown in Egyptian representations. They no doubt correspond to the people called Nakh'l El Nakha, Danakil and Nakhawil living along the Red Sea coasts in Arabia and Africa.
Hi Dana! That's a nice picture. Where did you find it?
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As the linguist GJK Cambpell-Dunn has postulated, Palistine maybe populated by early pastoral Fulani.
Fula = Pula = Bula = Peul = Fulbe
Evans (1921:I,65) illustrates Philistines on the Pylon of Medinet Habu, and if we look at them have the same hairstyle as the Fulani. For an image, see GJK Cambpell-Dunn's Who Were The Minoans: An African Answer pg5.
He calls these tribes of Philistines PULASATI. The common Niger-Congo name structure is PREFIX+ROOT and any suffixes are optional and can denote subtribes.
So the Pulasati is PULA + SATI.
PULA = FULA = BULA = PEUL = FULBE
Campbell-Dunn notes (pg4) that the Linear A script has also turned up in Philistia (Palestine). Although the Philistine in historical times spoke Semitic, the word Philistine has no Semitic origin. Even the Bible records they once spoke a more "exotic" tongue (Nehemiah 13:24).
The old testament form is Pelishtim. The Assyrians called them the Pilisti, but also PALASTU. The Assyrian forms are noteworthy for the presence of vowel harmony which is a Niger-Congo trait (not Semitic). The Assyrian form may preserve the Niger-Congo personal plural prefix ba- which often changed to pa- by devoicing. The pa- survives in the world Pa-lestine.
If this is the case, then we wouldn't consider them Arabs by any stretch, but some of the west Africans who migrated into the Nile Valley and Arabia.
To demonstrate that the Fula-ni (ni- is a suffix denoting people/nationality) were in Crete in ancient times (thus demonstrating they could have also travelled further into the Levant), we will compare some of the Linear A vocabulary with Fula. The Linear A will be in ALL CAPS, while the Fula will be in small caps.
One cannot claim exact matches and these matches are in form only, but to find the same cultural motifs, hairstyles and customs of the Fulani in Crete (See Cambell-Dunn Who Were the Minoans, and The African Origins of Classical Civilizations) along with dozens of Linear A vocabulary that match Fula words by the first and second consonants are not coincidence and is worthy for further study.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
Philistines may be a good example of the people coming from Arabia and settling in Palestine and the Aegean before 900 B.C..
Kamal Salibi found the names of Ghat, Ascalon, Ashdod (Es Shedad)and other of the Philistine cities mentioned in the Hebrew texts as being destroyed in Yemen. See the Bible Came from Arabia. Ghayt (Ghat) is still the name of a Mahra clan of Hadramaut and Oman.
We have to remember the people coming from Arabia and settling in Syria and Egypt were called by names other than "Arabs". Hyksos for example and Fenkhu (Phoenicians) from the Eritraean Sea, Meluhha (Amalekites) and Misra. The Philistines for eample were said to be a remnant of the Anakim of Canaan which was the lowland area stretching southward of Mecca. The Anakim (Nakhi)we are also told Amlikhu in the Hebrew texts including the Bible were called Amim (Umayma), Rephaim, and were the people controlling the area of Hejaz who gained control over Syria and Egypt in the 2nd millenium B.C. Someone has already posted a number of Hyksos representations on this forum somewhere.
The Fenkhu (Fanikha or Phoenicians) were also portrayed dark brown and red brown in Egyptian representations. They no doubt correspond to the people called Nakh'l El Nakha, Danakil and Nakhawil living along the Red Sea coasts in Arabia and Africa.
Amazing I have never seen any Black Asiatics dipicted by the Egyptians shown before, possibly depictions of the original Jews??
The Black bearded man With Dreads or Braids remind me of the Assyrian Releifs...
Sorry for being Off Topic but seriously those are the Best depictions of Black Asiatics by Egyptians I have seen so far..
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Jari, where does it say that specific depiction represents an Asiatic..?
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They look nothing like Nubian or Southern Tribes, obviously the beard and hairstyles are influenced by Mesopotamian culture rather than Nile Valley...Other than by their styles I don't know who they are but I have never seen Nubian depicted as such..look Asiatic to me.
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He looks essentially the same as the man in the first picture on the right. The only difference to me is that his beard is fuller and that he has a darker skin tone.
The combination of his full hair and the fact that his locks are thrown backwards reminds me of the libyans. I haven't seen an Assyrian with hair in that exact manner.
posted
Wow now that im looking at that picture with the 4 different races Nubians are distinctly different from egyptians.
Even back then there are whites in africa. That Nubian looks typically like a Jenub which shows even in those times nubians were not apart of the kemetian race.
That does remind me of Assyrians Asheferu is that liyban suppose to be a Berber and he is tattoed or is that hyna
Posts: 410 | From: Al-Ard | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: Wow now that im looking at that picture with the 4 different races Nubians are distinctly different from egyptians.
Even back then there are whites in africa. That Nubian looks typically like a Jenub which shows even in those times nubians were not apart of the kemetian race.
That does remind me of Assyrians Asheferu is that liyban suppose to be a Berber and he is tattoed or is that hyna
...can you read Mdu Ntr? there are NO people identified in the Mdu Ntr as being your fictional "Nubians"; the distinction is clearly between (1) Rome.t and (3) Nahasu...and it certainly isn't a racial one ...Jeez, always having to return to teach 'kindergarten'...Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: I doubt if such depictions existed, or rather if they had been discovered, that they wouldn't have been taken advantage of by now. The closest to your question would be several depictions of black Sumerians and Elamites, whose ancesters migrated from Arabia. But I doubt you haven't seen those depictions yet. Other leads are either skeletally and written accounts of various Arabian populations being referred to as Kush and Misr, by Assyrians and other ancient populations. Also, all sons of Kush including Kush himself should be sought in Arabia rather than Africa, according to the bible.
I don't think Sumerians or even Elamites have origins in Arabia. Why is it not hard to believe that the aboriginal populations of Mesopotamia and Iran are black? Hell, many people here are aware of blacks indigenous to Pakistan and India right next door. But you are correct that the Biblical Kush and specifically his 'sons' are identified with actual peoples in Arabia, though I don't know if that means Africa is excluded since some of Cush's sons are also identified with peoples in the African side of the Red Sea.
Posts: 26237 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: I doubt if such depictions existed, or rather if they had been discovered, that they wouldn't have been taken advantage of by now. The closest to your question would be several depictions of black Sumerians and Elamites, whose ancesters migrated from Arabia. But I doubt you haven't seen those depictions yet. Other leads are either skeletally and written accounts of various Arabian populations being referred to as Kush and Misr, by Assyrians and other ancient populations. Also, all sons of Kush including Kush himself should be sought in Arabia rather than Africa, according to the bible.
I don't think Sumerians or even Elamites have origins in Arabia. Why is it not hard to believe that the aboriginal populations of Mesopotamia and Iran are black? Hell, many people here are aware of blacks indigenous to Pakistan and India right next door. But you are correct that the Biblical Kush and specifically his 'sons' are identified with actual peoples in Arabia, though I don't know if that means Africa is excluded since some of Cush's sons are also identified with peoples in the African side of the Red Sea.
The Ubaidans are arguably the ancestors of both the Elamites and the Sumerians. Ubaidan settlements have been found all over the Arabian peninsula and in surrounding islands. What I have read so far about the Ubaidans is that it is tentatively implied that they came from the areas south of Iraq.
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quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: I got these TNV Forum
Amazing I have never seen any Black Asiatics dipicted by the Egyptians shown before, possibly depictions of the original Jews??
The Black bearded man With Dreads or Braids remind me of the Assyrian Releifs...
Sorry for being Off Topic but seriously those are the Best depictions of Black Asiatics by Egyptians I have seen so far..
Wow. I really need to go back to TNV forum, since I haven't been there in years. Also, how many of those heads represent Asiatics. The left most one in the top picture appears to be Kushite. As far as black Asiatics, the only one I'm aware of is the scene of Syrians paying tribute.
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Ancient Egyptians had contact with west Asians since pre-dynastic times. As someone has pointed out earlier (forgot who), the ancient Egyptians even had contacts as far away as India. I would go as far as saying that almost any population in west Asia that was worth knowing back then was either known, or heard of by the ancient Egyptians and other ancients. This only makes sense. Two big dogs get to know eachother, one sees material that is foreign to them during trade and asks the other where they got it from. Boom, another connection.
Israel was sort of the crossroads of the ancient trading world. Egyptians were in power, or could enforce their will in large portions of Israel in several dynasties. That means they knew whatever/whoever the palestinians knew, if it wasn't already known to them before those times.
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There are more ancient colored pictures portraying Asiatics.
1. Fragment of painted plaster from the tomb of Sebekhotep From Thebes, Egypt 18th Dynasty, around 1400 BC Syrians presenting exotic vessels and tribute
2. Fragment of painted plaster from the tomb of Sebekhotep From Thebes, Egypt 18th Dynasty, around 1400 BC An Asiatic with horses
3. Fragment of a battle scene Thebes, Asasif, Dynasty 18, probably reign of Thutmosis IV (ca. 1400-1390 B.C.) Western Asiatics
4. Egyptian, New Kingdom, Dynasty 20, reign of Ramesses III, 1184–1153 B.C. Findspot: Thebes, Egypt Polychrome faience Nubians,Philistine,Amorite,Syria,Hittite
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Yeah Wally is that picture u have the original or is that other one the original.
U are showing two different pictures which one is that.
U have a picture of Two guys one as a Ret the other as Nahasu two different people no matter what u say. If they were not different they would have no need of putting the Nahasu there.
Jeez, always having to return to teach 'kindergarten'... Hahahhahah u african-americans crack me up thinking u are some egyptian high priest or something hahahahhahah get over it kid u are not related to Kemet.
U say Nahasu and Ret is not racial or tribal what and who are u to say that. U think egypt didnt have different tribes look at todays egypt they are not one people one tribe
Posts: 410 | From: Al-Ard | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I understand what you're saying brother Wally, but the glyphs would not be a substitute for images depicting the people. I am just trying to see, if the "Black" Arabs were such a force to recon with as Dr. Wesley Muhammad claims, then there should be some depictions of them by the Egyptians as a distinct people. So I am trying to see did the Black Egyptians recognize "Black Arabs?"
I don't know too much about 'Glyps' but Arabs were probably more described according to their tribe or clan. When the Bible speak of 'Arabs' it is not identifying a particular tribe or clan but specifically speaking of the Arab nation most likely the location in focus. I don't think the Egyptians would have viewed the "Arabs" as a distinctive people because they were viewed as "one of them" or a people who are in proximity and shared culture and ideas though language could have been different in dialect. Arabs could be tribes or clans of Kedar, Philistines, Caananites, Amalekites, or even some Ethiopian (Cush) tribes/clans could be an Arabian etc...
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
That I cannot answer, but I do have some info for you here! It may be helpful!
Mitochondrial DNA structure in the Arabian Peninsula Received September 17, 2007; Accepted February 12, 2008.
Background
Two potential migratory routes followed by modern humans to colonize Eurasia from Africa have been proposed. These are the two natural passageways that connect both continents: the northern route through the Sinai Peninsula and the southern route across the Bab al Mandab strait. Recent archaeological and genetic evidence have favored a unique southern coastal route. Under this scenario, the study of the population genetic structure of the Arabian Peninsula, the first step out of Africa, to search for primary genetic links between Africa and Eurasia, is crucial. The haploid and maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) molecule has been the most used genetic marker to identify and to relate lineages with clear geographic origins, as the African Ls and the Eurasian M and N that have a common root with the Africans L3.
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
Mol Biol Evol. 2007 Mar;24(3):757-68. Epub 2006 Dec 28. Whole-mtDNA genome sequence analysis of ancient African lineages.
Gonder MK, Mortensen HM, Reed FA, de Sousa A, Tishkoff SA.
Department of Biology, University of Maryland, MD, USA.
Studies of human mitochondrial (mt) DNA genomes demonstrate that the root of the human phylogenetic tree occurs in Africa. Although 2 mtDNA lineages with an African origin (haplogroups M and N) were the progenitors of all non-African haplogroups, macrohaplogroup L (including haplogroups L0-L6) is limited to sub-Saharan Africa. Several L haplogroup lineages occur most frequently in eastern Africa (e.g., L0a, L0f, L5, and L3g), but some are specific to certain ethnic groups, such as haplogroup lineages L0d and L0k that previously have been found nearly exclusively among southern African "click" speakers. Few studies have included multiple mtDNA genome samples belonging to haplogroups that occur in eastern and southern Africa but are rare or absent elsewhere. This lack of sampling in eastern Africa makes it difficult to infer relationships among mtDNA haplogroups or to examine events that occurred early in human history. We sequenced 62 complete mtDNA genomes of ethnically diverse Tanzanians, southern African Khoisan speakers, and Bakola Pygmies and compared them with a global pool of 226 mtDNA genomes. From these, we infer phylogenetic relationships amongst mtDNA haplogroups and estimate the time to most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) for haplogroup lineages. These data suggest that Tanzanians have high genetic diversity and possess ancient mtDNA haplogroups, some of which are either rare (L0d and L5) or absent (L0f) in other regions of Africa. We propose that a large and diverse human population has persisted in eastern Africa and that eastern Africa may have been an ancient source of dispersion of modern humans both within and outside of Africa.
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
Who are the Arabs:
In today’s world, one is seducively led by the racist western media to believe that the Arabs of Arabia and Africa represent a peculiar phenotype with all other non-conforming types being somewhat alien to that concept. In this way they impose a certain central Asian phenotype as the “racial Arab” and the almost ubiquitous Black Arabs of the modern times as either descendants of slaves or immigrants.
In this way, they attempt to disconnect the linkage between the ancient Kushitic Black Arabs globally celebrated in antiquity (now reclassified as some “caucasoid”“semitics”) and their Kushitic African roots. This article is therefore another blow against the citadel of falsehood erected by the western intelligensia used to discourage, dis-empower dissipate and diffuse the energy of the Black nation. Again one notes and deplores the unrelenting effort by non-continental peoples to appropriate the history and the achievements of brilliant Black African luminaries as their own.
Much confusion attends the word “Arabs”, because it has not always been used with rigourous consistency. Moreover, in the wake of the global dominance of the Arab culture and Islamic political power in the between 7AD and 14 AD, the number of Arabs increased exponentially by the addition of many non Arab Arabized people, because acculturation and assimilation were delibrately fostered by state policy.
Today, the word Arabs does not strictly imply or designate any known racial category of people. It is an ethnic identification that has several aspect including liguistics, politics and genealogy. Its meaning is nuanced depending on the particular context.
As an ethnic identity, an Arab is someone who considers himself to be an Arab regardless of racial or ethnic origin. This definition encompasses many Africans, Indians, Indonesians and Chinese who describe themselves as Arabs.
Usually the first language of persons who claim to be Arab is Arabic. There are over 200 million people worldwide whose first language is Arabic. Again these peoples spread over a large portion of the globe spanning from central Africa to central Asia. More than 70% of the so-called Arabs in the world live physically in Africa.
Given that the Arabic language is a Semitic language, which forms part of the Afro-Asia language family, which originated in Africa, one can rightly view Arabic as an African language. Of the official languages of the African Union that include English, French, Spanish, Portugese, and Arabic, Arabic language is the only Afro-Asiatic language spoken. The rest are Euro-Aryan English, French, Spanish and Portugese.
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
Black Arabs and Classical Literature
Up to a century and a half ago our information concerning Arabia was based mainly on Greek and Latin writers, such as Herodotus (Histories), Diodorus Siculus (Bibliotheca Historica), Strabo (Geography, Book XVI), Pliny, Ptolemy, and others. All those writers reported without any equivocation that Arabia was part of the ancient Kingdom of Ethiopia Kush, extending from Africa into Solomon Islands.
Later Arabic writers and geographers, such as Hamadani’s “Arabian Peninsula,” Bekri and Yaqut’s geographical and historical dictionaries, and similar works also provide extremely valuable. However, those works are to be treated with caution because they contain fabulous and legendary traditions, partly based on native popular legends and partly on Jewish and rabbinical fancies.
From the available literature and authorities, historians have broadly divided Arabs into three classes according to their different great ancestors.
They are:
The original Black Arabs who were supposedly punished by destruction and deluge because, as legend has it in the book of Quran, they disobeyed their Prophets and flouted God’s instructions; they were: Ad, Thamud, Tasam, Jadeis, Imru.
The classical Black Arabs, who are believed to have descended from Yaarub ibn Yashjub ibn Ghatan and thus called Ghataniyun. They had lived in the Yemen; they included a number of tribes and sub-tribes, two of which became historically prominent viz., Himyar and Kahlan (al’arab al’ariba).
The Arabized Arabs: These tribes immigrated into Arabia from different sections of central Asia. Many of them intermarried with the desert dwelling nomadic blemmyes – the Bejas (original Bedouin Arabs) and the Somali, Kenyan and Ethiopian tribes of Africa. Their mix -blood children who adopted a mingled form of their parent’s cultures are known as the Arabized Arabs (al ‘arab al musta ‘riba).
Today, upon the dictates of the western intelligentsia, this branch is the so-called prototypical Arabs. They are the picture boys of the white-semitic theories which seek to claim that some white or at the very least some off-white people were and remain the original and only Arabians. By employing vague and non-categorical semantics with words like “Semites,”‘Hamites,” Ishmaelites,”“caucasiods,” the western negro-phobic intelligentsia and educational establishment seek to erase every trace of black Africa from Arabia.
Nonetheless, if one understood Arab culture it is immediately apparent that Blackness is highly cherished conceptually and in reality.
In Arab culture the best camel is the black one the best fig is the blackest, the best eyes are black, the best olives are black, the most beautiful rock is the Black Kaaba.
Any Bedouin Arab that is asked his color, would undoubtedly respond Asmar or Aswad which means Black/Brown. No Arab ever describes himself as Bidan which means White because they all understand instinctively if not consciously that Africa is their root.
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
Arabia the Daughter of Kush
The classical Greek and Roman writers commonly accepted the division of Arabia into Deserta (desert), Felix (happy), and Petraea (stony). Not much is known today about the exact configuration of those divisions. Later day Islamic Arabic geographers know nothing of this division, and this is not surprising since many of those later day Arabs are actually immigrants that later acculturated and assimilated into the culture of the original Black Arabs.
Arab geographers of the Islamic period divided Arabia generally into five provinces: The first is Yemen, embracing the whole south of the peninsula and including Hadramaut, Mahra, Oman, Shehr, and Nejran. The second is Hijaz, on the west coast and including Mecca and Medina, the two famous centers of Islam. The third is Tehama, along the same coast between Yemen and Hijaz. The fourth is Nejd, which includes most of the central table-land, and the fifth is Yamama, extending all the wide way between Yemen and Nejd. This division is also inadequate, for it omits the greater part of North and East Arabia.
A more recent division of Arabia, according to politico-geographical principles, is into seven provinces: Hijaz, Yemen, Hadramaut, Oman, Hasa, Irak, and Nejd. It has always been the assertion of experts that certain tribes that lived on the coast of Yemen and on the coast of Ethiopia and Eriteria were almost identical. The linkages between Ethiopia Kush and Arabia must be considered in the context of any discourse on Arab people, or more precisely stated the Black Africans of Arabia.
Following the decline of Saba and Daamat, the international trade hub moved to the kingdom of Axum on the opposite side of the Red Sea coast. From its seaports such as Adulis, Ethiopian-Kushites, Axum’s trade network extended from Egypt as far as India.
Axum survived for more than 2500 years as a great state dominating the Red Sea regions although western historians would grudgingly concede 800 years. It occupied and ruled southern Arabia for part of this period. Utilitarian Aksumite pottery has been found in large quantities in deposits from the 5th and 6th centuries in the Yemen Hadramawt, suggesting that there may have been substantial immigration during that period. Axumites descended groups such as the Habashahs, still live in southern Yemen today fully cognizant of their African origins and connections.
Indeed, interaction between Yemen and Ethiopia in ancient times is sometimes compared with the historical relationship between Europe and America, with the Red Sea as substitute for the Atlantic Ocean.
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
THE BEJA PEOPLE: HABITAT AND HISTORY
Another important group of Black African groups who contributed genetically and culturally to the formation of the Arabs are the Bejas otherwise called the Blemmyes. It appears that the Blemmyes as encountered in classical literature provided the foundation for the ethnic group known today as Bedouins.
The indigenous Beja people are nomads who have inhabited the semi-desert area in the Red Sea coast of Sudan and the hilly country behind it for thousands of years. The ancient Egyptians referred to them as the people of Buka or Medju (Medjay), the Romans dubbed them Blemmyes and in the Odessa they were described as Erembes. They are a Kushitic-Khemitic people who spoke a mixed dialect of semitic and Cushitic language. They identify themselves today as the most original and ancient of the Arab tribes.
Kemitic Pharaohs called them Absha, meaning the desert dwellers that is, the Bedouins in Arabic language – and Ramses II called them Beja, purporting fighters. Thus one can reasonably see the Bejas as fulfilling the Arab Bedouin archetype of the fearsome, nomadic owners of the Sahara, highly temperamental but compassionate. Throughout history, they have been regarded as very efficient fighting machines. It is important to note that besides the Nubians, it is well documented that the Beja were employed in the Egyptian army and were credited for their courage and fortitude during the expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt.
The Roman Historian Ammianus Marcellinus in spite of his odious ethno-centrism provides us more clues on the racial and ethnic identity of the earliest Arabs. In his book The Roman History, Book XIV.iv.1-7.(380 A.D.)) the Saracens a named that was used to describe the Arabs in both ancient and modern times (stems most likely from the Arabic Sarqiyyun, meaning ‘easterners’) were described as the Blemmys tribes who lived along the banks of the Nile beyond the cataracts. According to Ammianus Marcellinus:
“Book XIV.4:
At this time also the Saracens, a race whom it is never desirable to have either for friends or enemies, ranging up and down the country, if ever they found anything, plundered it in a moment, like rapacious hawks who, if from on high they behold any prey, carry it off with a rapid swoop, or, if they fail in their attempt, do not tarry. And although, in recounting the career of the Prince Marcus, and once or twice subsequently, I remember having discussed the manners of this people, nevertheless I will now briefly enumerate a few more particulars concerning them.
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
Arabia Petra
Arabia Petra spread between African Kushitic Egypt and Mesopotamia (another African kushitic area in the ancient times)(Josephus). It was originally settled by an early branch of the Cushitic Ethiopian people who spoke a proto-type semitic dialect.
The Beja’s known as the ancient Blemmyes one of the earliest known nomadic tribes to dwell in the deserts of Africa and Arabia probably provided the founding population of Arabia Petra.
Other sections of the African population from the early Caspian culture and other culture complex centered on Ethiopia Axum and Ethiopia Kush may have equally contributed to the early settlement of Arabia Petra.
Some of these early African Black Arabs crossed the Red Sea whilst others migrated overland through the Nile valley into Arabia. Arabia Petrea thus became an early blending pot of African cultures. Due to this cultural ferment many nomads soon abandoned their wandering lives to establish sophisticated towns and cities together with the more sedentary population. These melange later became known as the Nabateans and their capital was Petra.(Drussilla Houstons).
During the Roman period, the word Arab was a synonym for Nabatean and vice versa. When the Romans incorporated Nabatea into their Empire, it was officially designated as the Province of Arabia. Numerous sculptures found in Arabia Petra clearly depict its population as African through their physical features. One classical example is that of Emperor Philip of Arabia one of the later Emperors of Rome, who was indigenous to Arabia Petra. His sculptures demonstrate that physically speaking, Emperor Philip of Arabia was a Black man of African descent. Here is a picture of a statue of the Black African Roman Emperor Philip “the Arab”.
Arabia Felix laid further south of Petra. Arabia Felix was bounded by the Shiraz region of the Persian Gulf, the Eritrean or Red sea (Africa) as well as the Indian Ocean This country was rich in spices and in it was situated the famous cities of Mecca and Medina.
Here was the country of the Yemenis, the Habashas, the Sabas, the Hadramautians and the Mineans. All these were sections of the Ethiopian-Axumite tribes similar to the Amharas, the Oromos and the Tigriyeans, who had expanded the ancient lucrative spice trade to Arabia.
It should be noted that in addition to coffee, Ethiopia is the original homeland of incenses such as frankincense, myrrh, and spices like cinnamon. The traditional African planters of these cash crops and the African maritime operators of this most lucrative of ancient trades extended their operations from Ethiopia across the straits of Bab-el-Mandel to take advantage of the fertile land and the natural harbors of Arabia Felix, which subsequently became export hubs of the ancient trade.(See Strabo, geography Book XVI.iv.19). Produce was shipped routinely from the highlands of Ethiopia into Ethiopian owned- Arabia Felix for exports to the rest of the world.
Given the historical, genetic, physical and geographical proximity between Ethiopia and Arabia Felix and the similarity of the cultural expression of both lands, it is not a wonder why the ancient Greek writers swore that the Ethiopians ruled the whole of Arabia. It was clear to the sophisticated Greeks and the worldly Romans that Black Africans settled and developed this portion of Arabia!
Arabia Deserta
Arabia Deserta was originally people by the Bejas and kindred groups from Africa. These are the original owners of the Sahara and its extension known as the Arabia Desert. The Bejas as we have seen from preceding paragraphs were the first to be called Bedouins due to their nomadic culture and their preference for Desert habitats.
In the beginning of Holocene period, a group of landless, barbarian, starving, pale-skinned Central Asian refugees now known as the pale-skin Arabs (i.e. the so-called Semites) began living side by side with the nomadic African Cushitic Bejas who owned the entire Sahara desert between the Nile and the Arabian Peninsula. Over the course of time these two peoples have intermingled culturally and genetically that there is barely any pale skin (Arabized) Arabs alive today that does not carry extensive Africa genes in his blood. The descendants of this intermingling are the so-called modern Semitic Arabs (more precisely known as the Arabized Arabs) who trace their roots through Abraham.
The Central Asian barbarians did not develop any states, high culture or language in Arabia. They were destitute, mostly ignorant, unread and illiterate. The Koran takes great pain to dissociate this group from the high cultural attainment of ancient Arabia. It is clearly stated that until the advent of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad, these so-called Semites lived in a state of perpetual brutality, savagery, warfare and robbery. The Koran also takes pain to identify the original Black Arabs who had lived in Ad, Talmud, Imru etc, as the originators and builders of Arab civilization and culture.
These Arabized Arabs have sublimated stories of their origin in the legend of Abraham, which narrates of his journey from somewhere proximate to central Asia into the Black African territory of Arabia. He was said to have married a Black Egyptian-born wife, Hagar/Hajir, and their son was named, Ishmael/Ismail. In this legend one immediately becomes aware of the central Asian origin of its heros and the resultant miscegenation which gave rise to the Arabised Arabs.
These so-called descendants of Abraham (actually mix breed from Black African Bejas and pale central Asian-stanis like the Turkmenistanis) settled in Mecca which was then under the overlordship of the Kushitic-Ethiopic owners of Arabia-Felix. This category of Arabs normally called themselves Adnaniyun that is, after one of their great tribal ancestors Adnan.
Despite the mythical origin of this peculiar historical source, it is clear that conscious effort has been made by Arabized Arabs to associate their tribes to African Royal pedigree.
Since it is generally known that Kushitic citizenship was matrilineal, and only children born by Kemitic Kushite mothers could aspire to be Kings in Egypt and Ethiopia, it does not take a lot of imagination to understand the role of the black Egyptian (Kemitic Kushite) Hagar in the Abraham story. The Arabized Arabs actually claim a Black African historical and archetypal mother!
1948 “In Arabia the first inhabitants were probably a dark-skinned, shortish population intermediate, between the African Hamites and the Dravidians of India and forming a single African Asiatic belt with these. From the Handbook of the Territories which form the Theatre of Operations of the Iraq Petroleum Company Limited and its Associated Companies, First Edition, Compiled in the Companies Head office at 214 Oxford Street London 1948. By the middle of the 20th century, whether due to corresponding the withdrawal of European colonialists from many lands or the establishment foundations of modern Europeans in the Levant and consequent flourishing of Biblical archeology, it appears that many historians became less acquainted or familiar with the early documented history and genealogical traditions of the Arabian peoples. The notion of a race of “black Caucasoids” had already been established in the late 19th century and the idea that developed in the 1st centuries after Christ in Neareastern Muslim and Judaeo-Christian tradition of different colored children of Noah had come to permeate the interpretation of Afro-Asiatic or Arabian genealogy.
Ancient Origins of the Afro-Arabian Qara tribes (also written Qarra, Gara, Kara)
The Qara or Kara claim descent from the Azdites of Kindah kingdom which existed in Central Arabia and the Persian Gulf. The Azd are descendants of Qahtan through Kahlan son of Himyar. They are among those remnants of peoples who claim they came from Africa at a remote period. The dialects of the Qara are related to the pre Arabic dialects of ancient Saba, Himyar and Ethiopia.
1929 – Bertram Thomas describes the Qara or Kara as “the most prosperous tribe of all the Hamitic group, possessing innumerable camels, herds of cattle and the richest frankincense country. They resemble the Bisharin tribe of the Nubian desert. Men of big bone , they have long faces long narrow jaws, noses of a refined shape long curly hair and brown skin.” Quoted on p. 200 in Richmond Palmer’s, The Bornu Sahara ans Sudan 1970 originally published 1936 by John Murray of London. The Qara are actually rather short in stature as well.
2004 On the Qara,“European observers have made much of their physical resemblance to Somalis and Ethiopians, but there is no historical evidence of any connections.” P. 261 J. E. Peterson “Oman’s Diverse Society: Southern Oman”, Middle East Journal Vol. 38, No. 2 Spring 2004.
Claudius Ptolemy mentions the town of “Gerra” in the Geographos (2nd cent CE). Strabo appears to have referred to them as Gerraeans salt traders in the Persian Gulf and Red Sea says they were the Chaldeans pushed from Harran (which was apparently Arabian Hauran) by Nebudchadnezzer. He wrote,“the Gerrhaeans have become the richest of all; and they have a vast equipment of both gold and silver articles, such as couches and tripods and bowls, together with drinking vessels and very costly houses; for doors and wall and ceilings are variegated with ivory and gold and silver set with precious stones.”(Frankincense and Myrrh, A Study of Arabian Incense Trade, Nigel Groom, p. 67).
“The city of Gerrha played a central role in the interchange of commodities of certain regions of the ArabianPeninsula during the reign of the Seleucid King Antioch III (223 – 187 BC) of Syria. Most notable was the frankincense and myrrh of southwestern Arabia in the Yemen and Hadramawt regions. Juba and Pliny refer to the city of Gerrae as Carra as mentioned in his Natural History 1.161-62 an Arabian tribe called Carrae or Carraeans who had the most extensive and fertile agricultural lands in Arabia.
The Qarra or Kara tribe also carry on a salt trade that was one of the hallmarks of the ancient Gerrhaeans or Carrae. Some have tried to relate the name of Carraeans to that of Hagar while others probably more accurately see some correlation with the Korahites of Southwest Arabia who appear to be the Biblical Korah.
The Afro-Arabian Origins of the Ad, Amalek and Aram, Uz, Saba and Himyar: Ethnohistory of the Mahra/Shahara/Somali populations
“Paradise and Hell were shown to me…Hell was shown to me, and was brought so close that I stepped back for fear that it would touch me. I saw a Humayr woman who was tall and black, being punished on account of a cat that she owned: she had tied it up, not giving it anything to eat or drink, or allowing it to eat of the vermin of the earth…” Account of a woman of the tribe of Himyar or Humayr. Sahee Al Jami 2/298, 2394 a Hadith, al-Jannah wa an-Naar. In The Light of the Qur’aan and Sunnah. Compiled by Al Bukhari 9th century from Bukhara Uzbekistan.
Cheikh Anta Diop had commented that the Joktanides (Qahtan) came down from the North conquering original tribes of Adites basing his belief on modern interpretations of Biblical and Arabian history. Arabian tradition however affirms that the tribes of Ham, Shem and Japhet were actually closely related tribes of African affiliation and origination who were originally settled in southwestern and extending to the region Mecca and Medina.
The modern Mahra extend from Hadramaut to Oman and are found in Somalia. They had clans named Samudayt (Thamud or Samud) and Mashek (Mashek is also called Mash in the Bible) and Riyam or Rigam anciently known from their king Rekem or Arkam, Mahli (Mahli the Korahite?) and Idi. The 13th century traveler Ibn Mudjawir speaks of the Mahra (also called Maheyra, Mahri) living in those days in Oman as “tall and handsome” which can also be said of the Mahra of Somalia.
The 1986 new edition of Encyclopedia of Islam says they were “of brown complexion with black, often curly hair”. The Rigam or Riyam clan of Mahra is suggested to have come from the peoples known as the Rhagmanitae or Raymanitae of Pliny 1st century and other Greek writers who are mentioned as living in Yemen and the Persian Gulf..(the Rhagmat or Ra’amah of Biblical tradition). See p. 226 of Charles Forster’s the Historical Geography of Arabia, 1844. According to tradition the leader Rekem or Rigam (also written in literature Arqam, Rukayim, or Rukaym) was the son of Aram or otherwise, son of Abir (Heber), Aram’s brother and a son of Ad who led the Mahra south to the Hadramaut and Oman. Sir Richard Burton recounted the tradition that,“the last king of the Amalek, Arkam bin Arkam was slain by an army of the children of Israel sent by Moses to purge Madinah and Mecca of their infidel inhabitants.“
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
Also, Ibn Mudjawir asserted that the Mahra were the remnant of Ad whom “when God destroyed the greater part of them” went to live in the mountains of Zufar and Sokotra and al Masirah in the Yemen and Oman, a tradition elaborated on by Ibn Khaldun and others. Modern Mahra claim descent from Kuda’a son of Himyar, son of Saba of Yemen. See the Encylopaedia of Islam (Der Islam im Spiegel zeitgenössischer Literatur der islamischen Welt) p. 82 claimed Ibn Ishaq gave the genealogy of Quda’a bin Malik bin Himyar bin Saba bin Yashjub bin Ya’rub (Arab) bin Qahtan(Joktan).(Retso 19 ) The Himyarites and Sabaeans were considered “Adites”.
The Samudayt clan of the Mahra, from which came the Tsamud or Thamud, according to tradition were the 2nd Ad or remnant of the Adites whose power once extended from Sana’a in Yemen to Syria and Egypt, he is variously called the son of Abir (Eber) or Jathiar (otherwise known as Jetur, Jazar or Gezer) or . His land was called Adan or Aden. The Thamud were said to have fought against the Israelite leader Joshua son of Nun near Mecca. These Adites holding the area of Mecca and Medina were also known as Amalik or the Amalekites of Rephidim. It was they who according to both Arabian and Biblical stories met the “Yisra’el” or followers of Moses at a place called Meriba (Exodus 17:7) which was the Sabaean capital of Marib in Yemen).
According to Muslim commentators this king of the Amalekites, dwelt in the lower part of Mekka… El-Harith, son of the Himyarite ruler Modad (Almod’ad), king of the Djurham or Darim tribe (Hadoram son of Shem of Genesis) disputed his control of the sanctuary there. The Hadoram (Adramitae or Dreematae) are mentioned in Greek texts as “Sabaeans”.
Masudi in the 10th century wrote of this king saying,“The king of Syria, es-Someida, son of Hubar,(who is Tsamud or Thamud son of Abir son of Malik marched against Joshua, son of Nun, and after many fights, was killed by the last one, who conquered his kingdom… The circumstances of this are mentioned in the following verses by Awf, son of Saad, the Djorhamite: Haven’t you seen at Elath (Elah) the skin of the Amalekite (Someida), son of Hubar (Abir or Abar), put into shreds when he was attacked by an army of eighty thousand Jews, protected or not by shields? These Amalekite cohorts, who trained meticulously jumped behind him. One hasn’t met them ever since among the mountains of Mekka, and nobody has seen again es-Someida.” See Les Prairies d’Or translation The Prairies of Gold, Chapter 39, Paris 1861.
In Assyrian texts they are the historical Tamudi (circa 8th c B.C.)and in Roman times they are the Saracens called Thamudenioi Equites (equestrian Thamud) who occupied Dumah (modern Duma’at al Jandal in Jordan where they had also came to be called Idumaeans ( Dumah, child of Ishmael). Thamud’s original home however was far to the south as with the rest of the Ismaelites or North Arabian bedouin. These “second Adites” according to some were also those that were ruled by Lokman, son of Ad and who also left Saba at one of the burstings of the Marib dam of Iram or Aram (modern Yarim).
When this dam burst not only did they disperse in Arabia, but they went into Africa. Josephus claimed the people along the Nile as at Meroe were Sabaeans, descendants of Keturah through Jokshan. Jokshan’s descendants include Judadas, Ashurim, and Leummim, He mentions the Yudadas,(Dedan) in Western Ethiopia and the Ashurim (or Surim )of “Libya”(known to the Romans as Asuriani, Astacures, Astrikes and Saturiani a branch of the camel owning Levathes Maures or Tuareg) as the tribe who had harassed, conquered and named Assyria under the leadership of Nimrod were also in Africa.(Asshuran or Chronus as he was called in Greece was a name for the venerated deity also called Saturn.)
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
Case and Proto-Arabic, Part II, by Jonathan Owens School of Oriental and African Studies.
Abstract
That proto-Arabic had morphological case is an assumption which has hardly generated debate. Like all assumptions, however, it rests on concrete arguments. The two most important of these are probably (1), the existence of case in Classical Arabic and (2), the existence of case elsewhere in Semitic, particularly in Akkadian. However, applying standard comparative and philological methodology, one is equally led to the opposite conclusion, that proto-Arabic did not have case. Relevant arguments to support this position are:(1) most Semitic languages do/did not have case, nor probably did proto-Afroasiatic; (2) the oldest Arabic epigraphic record probably does not show case; (3) there are various problematic issues in the Arabic grammatical and many tradition which suggest the existence of caseless varieties parallel to Classical Arabic; (4) modern Arabic dialects do not have case. The present paper expanded upon points 1-3 in Part I. In Part II it incorporates point 4 and goes on to construct a model for the development of a case-based Classical Arabic out of an original caseless variety.
Historians generally agree that the ancient Semitic peoples (Assyrians, Aramaeans, Canaanites (including the Phoenicians and Hebrews) and, later, the Arabs themselves) migrated into the area of the Fertile Crescent. Arab invasions came after successive crises of overpopulation in the Arabian Peninsula beginning in the third millennium BC and ending with the Muslim conquests of the 7th century AD. These peoples spoke languages based on similar linguistic structures, and the modern Semitic languages of Arabic, Hebrew, and Amharic (the language of Ethiopia) maintain important similarities.
"The oldest evidence indicates the presence of Africans in the Red Sea coastal plain"
"Old South Arabian inscriptions and graffiti are in scripts of a South Semitic type, of which Ethiopic is the only present-day"
Do me and yourself a favor and click the links.
1).
Arabian peoples have been held to be related to a variety of groups, with homelands in almost all directions outside Arabia: the view that sought to visualize all Arabians as a single race has never been valid.
The oldest evidence indicates the presence of Africans in the Red Sea coastal plain, Iranians in the southeastern tip of the peninsula, and peoples of Aramaean stock in the north. The racial affinities of the ancient Yemeni peoples remain unsolved; the marked similarity of their culture to the Semitic cultures that arose in the Fertile Crescent to the north of the peninsula can be attributed to cultural spread rather than to immigration.
2).
a. In the north and centre the dominant linguistic form is Old North Arabian (subclassified into Liḥyānic, Thamūdic, and Ṣafaitic); despite close connections between this group and Arabic, the latter cannot be regarded as lineally descended from it.
b. The Yemenite inscriptions are in Old South Arabian (subclassified into Minaean, Sabaean, Qatabānian, and Hadhramautic), which is a wholly independent group within the Semitic family of languages.(The Old North Arabian and Old South Arabian inscriptions and graffiti are in scripts of a South Semitic type, of which Ethiopic is the only present-day survivor; modern Arabic script is of a North Semitic type.)
Bronze man" found in Al Bayda'(ancient Nashqum); 6th-5th century
3).One of its kings of this period was the only Yemeni ruler to be (like the Ptolemies and Seleucids) accorded divine honours, and his portrait statuette is dressed in Greek garb, contrasting with those of his predecessors who are dressed in Arabian style, with kilt and shawl. Awsānian inscriptions are in the Qatabānian language (which might account for the fact that Eratosthenes gives no separate mention to Awsān in his list of the main ethne).
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
Author Arab ‘Aribah,
Bedouin
“Red, in the speech of the people from Hejaz means faircomplexioned,and this color is rare amongst the Arabs. This is the meaning of the saying … a red man as if he is one of the slaves.” From Seyar A’laam al-Nubalaa, vol. 2, by the Syrian Al- Dhahabi (Thahabi),of the century 14th c. A.D.
The Book of Oaths (Kitab al Aiman) Book 015, Number 4046:
Ayyub said: We were sitting in the company of Abu Musa that he called for food and it consisted of flesh of fowl. It was then that a person from Banu Tamim visited him. His complexion was red having the resemblance of a slave. “…most Arabs are dark brown in color.” 13th c. Ibn Mandhur, Lisaan al Vol. 4.
“Lank hair is the kind of hair that most non-Arab Persians and Romans have while kinky hair is the kind of hair that most Arabs have.” Lisaan al Arab, vol 3. Ibn Mandhur. “All the lands became inhabited by Arabs completely mixed with non-Arabs.” Ahmed Amin in Fajr el Islam, 1975, p. 91.
The above quotes cited in The Unknown Arabs, Tariq Berry, published, 2002.
These are the facts of pre-Islamic and early Islamic Arabia, which is why the Greeks and Romans considered Arabia an extension of Ethiopia and for Syrians much of Arabia part of “the Sudan” long after the time of the prophet Muhammed. (See Richmond Palmer’s, Bornu, Sahara and Sudan with regard to the Syrian Al Omari).
It was from this colony of “blacks”(as the original Arabs invariably called themselves), that the numerous tribes of the men Europeans once called “Moors” left after the time of the Muslim prophet to also spread over parts of the Middle East, North Africa and the Iberian peninsula.
Although Iranians had settled the Yemen or south of the peninsula in the centuries immediately preceding the Prophet Mohammed; though Turks, Circassians, mercenaries, concubines and slaves from all parts of he world had come to settle the land of the true Arabs later in Islamic times, large numbers of inidigenous peoples of African appearance still occupy the peninsula Arabia preserving their indigenous and original Afro- Arab customs.
Descriptions and Ethnogenesis of the Original Arabs: The tribes leaving the north and central parts of Arabia occupying the Hejaz and Nejd can be divided into major branches. They include those traditional genealogy called “Ishmaelites” or descendants of Kedar, like the tribes of Qays ibn Ailan or El Nas and El Yas, and the Rabi’ah and Wa’il all based in the central regions of the peninsula. Many of these were “the Saracens” whom Ammianus Marcellinus, Roman general of the 4th c. A.D. claimed had originated “from the cataracts of the Nile” in Sudan.
It is the north and central group of Arabians inhabiting the Jordan, the Harra and the Nejd whose ancestors came to be called Ishmaelites, descendants of Thamud (the second A’d), Kedar and Naba’it (all traditionally children of Ismail). (The Nabataeans were among those known also as Amurru or Amorites in late Assyrian texts.)
In the tradition of Syria and in the later European Jewish or Rabbinic tradition the term “Kushi” signified black peoples, and in fact, became a derogatory term. A European Jewish Targum text Song 1:5 employs the phrase “as black as the Kushi who live in the tents of Kedar.”
Because many of the indigenous Arabian people of Jordan and Hejaz were near black in color and claim descent from the Kedar, Kinanniyya (Kana’ani or Cana’an), and Nabataeans (such as the modern Haweit’at), the Syrians and others who had come to adopt Arabic nationality (or who had been colonized by the Arabs), came to presume names such as Nabit, Kedar, Kanaan meant “black” people.
David Goldberg’s author of The Curse of Ham: Race and Slavery in Early Judaism, Christianity and Islam wrote “Dimashqi, who lists the Nabataeans (Nbt) among the descendants of Ham together with the Copts, the BrBr (Berbers) and the Sudan … and the Akkbar al Zaman, which lists the Nabit , among the children of Canaan… also said the word,‘Nabit’ signifies ‘black’…” see p. 313 The 10th c. Al Masudi of Baghdad , is thought to have written the text, Akbar al Zaman. Al Dimashqi of Syria belonged to the 13th century. In the southern part of Arabia the modern Qahtan Arabs’ are descendants of the peoples known mainly as Sabaeans, Himyarites, Ma’in and Azd (also called Asad, Zayyed or Sid) in Arab genealogy.
These came to spread north and became the progenitors of many “Ismailites”.
Thus, many groups have genealogies which make them both north Arabian descendants of Ismail and descendants of Qahtan through the Azdites (Zayyed) or Maddhij of Yemen, two descendants of Himyar and Kahlan sons of Saba.
Most of the living Qahtan tribes told the European colonial ethnographers that they came in remote times from Africa.
Thus, Bertram Thomas in 1929 said that the Shahara (Banu Shahr), Mahra or Maheyra, and Bautahara and Qarra or Kara had “a tradition of African origin” in “The Southeastern Borderlands of the Rub-al Khali”,in Geography Journal, Vol. 73, 3.
These clans are also described as having a “dark pigmentation” and “fuzzy hair” as recently as 2001 (see David Philips, Peoples on the Move, pp. 250-251).
In 1872, a European named von Maltzan commenting on the inhabitants of southwest Arabia in Yemen said,“The inhabitants of this part of Arabia nearly all belong to the race of Himyar.
Their complexion is almost as black as the Abyssinians,” see p. 121 in “Geography of Southern Arabia” by Baron von Maltzan, in Proceedings of the Royal Geographical Society of London, Vol. 16, No. 2 , pp. 115-123.
On the Qara of Hadramaut and Oman who are said to descend from the Yemen, it was recently written,“European observers have made much of their physical resemblance to Somalis and Ethiopians…” P. 261 J. E. Peterson “Oman’s Diverse Society: Southern Oman”, Middle East Journal Vol. 38, No. 2 Spring 2004.
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
Author: Arab ‘Aribah,
THE QAYS AILAN BIN MUDAR – DESCRIPTIONS AND SETTLEMENT IN SPAIN:
The descriptions of the Qays clans families and individuals are many.
To the Qays Ailan groups belonged the famous northern Arabian tribes of the Harra and Hejaz including the well-described children of Mansur (Mansour or Manas’ir) Sulaym bin Mansur, Mazin bin Mansur and Hawazin bin Mansour whose sub clans are in the dozens.
The descendants Mansur bin Ikrima bin Khasafa bin Qays bin Ailan in Arabia, like most early Arabs in Arabia are referred to as black and dark brown in texts.
Although they were famous for their slave raiding and use of Greco- Romans (Rum) concubines in ancient times, many clans, in fact, remain near black in color in the peninsula today.
The Iraqi Al Jahiz (9th c.) and Ibn Athir, the Kurd (12th -13th
c.) both refer to the Sulaym bin Mansour in particular as “pure”
Arabs and “black” in color, not simply dark brown which was also common in the Hejaz. Al Jahiz said that all the tribes of the Harra an area south of Jordan and extending into Hejaz were black like the lava and animals in the region.
Some Sulaym (Sulaym ibn Mansour bin Ikrima bin Khasafa) had settled in North Africa and entered Spain with the first governor of Andalusia, Abd el Azziz ibn Musa, and others also settled in Tudmir.
But most of the clans of early settlers from the Qays tribes of Sulaym, Ghatafan, Fahm, Abs, and Dhubyan (Zubyan) of the Ghatafan or Ghutayf came later from Jazira in Mesopotamia where they had been settled for some time.
Ghatafan bin Sa’ad bin Qays Ailan,“settled the plain of Granada in a village called Ibra” in Spain, while the Abs of the Ghatafan (Abs bin Baghid bin Raith bin Ghatafan) settled in Jaen.(See bib. Taha, below)
The closely related Banu Fezara (Fezara bin Dhubyan bin Raith) settled in Elvira where there was a section named for them. An early eyewitness upon seeing the Abs tribe in Arabia describes them as “black-skinned men shaking their spears and digging in the earth with their feet.”(From Ibn Abd Rabbu of Andalusia, El Iqd El Fareed, vol. 6, cited in The Unknown Arabs, p. 78).
ELYAS (ELIAS BIN MUZAR, MUZIR OR MUDAR)
Muzar’s other descendants were the clans of Elyas of the southern Hejaz. When the tribes and individuals of the clans of Elyas are described, they are described in writings as “dark brown” or “black”. They were centered in Hejaz or western Arabia stretching southward toward the Yemen.
The El Yas or Elias bin Muzir or Mudar was exemplified by the Kinaniyya or Kinana bin Khuzaima bin Mudrika bin Elyas (who became famously known as the Canaanites) from which came Mohammed’s tribe of the Qureish, and the tribes of Tamim bin Murra, Hudhail, Nadir, Mustaliq, Makhzumi and Zahra.
Elyasa or Elias included the famous Kinana who were described in European Talmudic texts as “black, thieving people” with “large male members”.
Wah ibn Munabbih a 7th century descendant of Iranian mercenaries who had settled in the Yemen just before the period of Islam also made Cana’an “black”, being quite familiar with the Kinaaniyya tribe of Hejaz.
The Banu Umayya who founded the Umayyad dynasty of Islam among the clans descended from tribes of Qureish founded the Umayyad dynasty.
Some Kinana or Kinaniyya who now live in Jericho today, the modern state of Israel are black, and many with the keenest features are jet black.
(Some have tried to say they descend from Nubian slaves, which may be the case, but certainly not for the blacker ones.)
The Quraish clan of the Kinaniyya were with Musa’s army (the first Arab governor in of Al-Andalus in Spain). Kinana also came to live in Jaen in Spain.
When individuals of the Qureish clan of the Kinana in Arabia - especially relatives of the Prophet are mentioned in texts they described as “black”.
Ali, the son of the prophet’s cousin described as “black skinned” by the Turkish and Iranian writer el Suyuti and by Ibn Saad, a Baghdad, Iraqi of the 8th c. in El Tabaqat ael Kabra vol. 8.(cited in Berry). Ali’s great grandson according to Kitab el Aghani by Esfahani of Central Asia was “black skinned and huge”.
The black nationalistic views and horrifying racism of the original Arabs towards fair skinned peoples settling in Arabia is aptly illustrated by early writings and expressions from individuals of Mohammed’s own tribe in Arabia.
Yazid ibn Muawia of the Omayya ibn Shams bin Abd Manaf of the Qureish tribe was “black skinned” and “hairy” and “kinky haired” according to Ibn Abd Rabbu 9th c. of Cordoba and el Dhahabi the Syrian of the 14th c.
It was apparently Yazid’s father, Muawia, who said “I see these whites have become very numerous and are saying bad things about those who have passed. I can envision a daring enterprise from them against the Arabs and authority. I am thinking of killing half of them and leaving half of them to set up markets and to build roads.
(This statement reported by Ibn Abd Rabbu, in El Iqd al Farid, vol 3. cited in The Unknown Arabs. P.81)
The Zuhra clan of Qureish also settled Saragossa.(see Taha) A member of the Banu Zuhra in Arabia named Saad ibn Waqqas is called very dark,“tall” and “flat-nosed” by El Dhahabi, of Syria. While Jahiz of Iraq (9th.c.) calls him black-skinned and huge.
The tribe of Hudhail bin Mudrika bin El Yas settled Murcia and Saragossa. El Baladhuri, the 9th century Iranian, describing Abdella ibn Mas’ud, a famous member of the Hudhail clan of Arabians says he was “short, thin and black”.(p. 17, Tariq Berry).
Tabikha was brother of Mudrika in the genealogy. When the Central Asian or Iranian writer Al Esfahan (from Esfahan in Iran) described an Arab of the clan of Tabikha and Banu Asad he described him as “black- skinned” with “black eyes”. According to Taha (p. 137, The Muslim Conquest…), Banu Asad bin Khuzaima bin Mudrika settled in al Bushra near the Sierra Nevada mountains and Barajila. The Unknown Arabs Tariq Berry, 2002. Available at Amazon.com The Muslim Conquest and Settlement of North Africa and Spain, by Abdul Wahid Dhunan Taha, 1989.
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
Mitochondrial DNA structure in the Arabian Peninsula
Khaled K Abu-Amero1 email, José M Larruga2 email, Vicente M Cabrera2 email and Ana M González2 email
1 Mitochondrial Research Laboratory, Department of Genetics, King Faisal Specialist Hospital and Research Center, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
2 Department of Genetics, Faculty of Biology, University of La Laguna, Tenerife 38271, Spain
Received: 17 September 2007 Accepted: 12 February 2008 Published: 12 February 2008
Macrohaplogroup L lineages
Quote
"Particularly, Yemen has the largest contribution of L lineages (30). So, most probably, this area was the entrance gate of a portion of these lineages in prehistoric times, which participated in the building of the primitive Arabian population."
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
Migration of Chadic speaking pastoralists within Africa based on population structure of Chad Basin and phylogeography of mitochondrial L3f haplogroup
Quote:
We use high-resolution genetic data to investigate the genetic and linguistic support for hypotheses concerning the population history in the Chad Basin. The mitochondrial L3f3 haplogroup is found almost exclusively in Chadic speaking populations and its TMRCA corresponds well with archaeological and linguistic dates of the proposed migration of Chadic speaking pastoralists from East or North East Africa to the Chad Basin.
Haplogroup L3f is defined by the coding variants
3396-4218-15514-15944del and the control region motif 16209–16519 with a TMRCA of 57,100 ± 9,400 YBP. This haplogroup diversifies into sub-haplogroups L3f1, L3f2 and L3f3. The most geographically widespread sub-haplogroup is L3f1, which is distributed across the African continent [3] and also Arabia [32,33] and has a TMRCA of 48,600 ± 11,500 YBP.
..."The youngest clade, L3f1b2, seems to be more frequent in the Middle East. L3f1a seems to be older (37,700 ± 10,000 YBP) than its sister sub-haplogroup L3f1b and is also less diversified. A few samples from Chad belong to these sub-haplogroups: two to L3f1a and one to L3f1b3."
"We then estimated pairwise FST genetic distances between populations (Additional file 4) and displayed these on a MDS plot (Figure 3). Interesting results are immediately evident – while Chadic populations form a relatively homogeneous group, the Cushitic populations split into two completely different clusters. The first group is composed of Horn of African populations, such as Ethiopian and Somali Cushitic populations, which are close to neighbouring Ethiopian Semitic speaking groups and relatively close also to Chadic people from the Chad Basin. The second Cushitic group is composed by more southern groups from Tanzania, i.e. Burunge and Iraqw, who occupy outlier positions even within the Afro-Asiatic MDS plot. In the MDS plot, geography is more strongly associated with genetic distance than is linguistic affiliation. Overall, we observe that Chadic speaking populations are intermixed with other populations from Chad Basin, including Niger-Congo, Semitic, and Berber speaking people. In this context, it seems that the linguistic categories play a secondary role in structuring the genetic diversity."
I find Wally's input most relevant and interesting, to think, Black Civilization is essentially yester "Day's" equivalent to todays "Westernized" world (which, in liu of the Ra myths and the idea of civilization cycles, interests me as that could reverse translate to Deadened world)..
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Philistines may be a good example of the people coming from Arabia and settling in Palestine and the Aegean before 900 B.C..
Kamal Salibi found the names of Ghat, Ascalon, Ashdod (Es Shedad)and other of the Philistine cities mentioned in the Hebrew texts as being destroyed in Yemen. See the Bible Came from Arabia. Ghayt (Ghat) is still the name of a Mahra clan of Hadramaut and Oman.
We have to remember the people coming from Arabia and settling in Syria and Egypt were called by names other than "Arabs". Hyksos for example and Fenkhu (Phoenicians) from the Eritraean Sea, Meluhha (Amalekites) and Misra. The Philistines for eample were said to be a remnant of the Anakim of Canaan which was the lowland area stretching southward of Mecca. The Anakim (Nakhi)we are also told Amlikhu in the Hebrew texts including the Bible were called Amim (Umayma), Rephaim, and were the people controlling the area of Hejaz who gained control over Syria and Egypt in the 2nd millenium B.C. Someone has already posted a number of Hyksos representations on this forum somewhere.
The Fenkhu (Fanikha or Phoenicians) were also portrayed dark brown and red brown in Egyptian representations. They no doubt correspond to the people called Nakh'l El Nakha, Danakil and Nakhawil living along the Red Sea coasts in Arabia and Africa.
Hi Dana! That's a nice picture. Where did you find it?
Hi Tariq - actually I found it under googling the word philistine under wikimedia commons. It should still be there. It belonged originally to the Boston Art museum and comes from the Temple of Medinet habu.
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