2. Why is African's strong Islamic past still largely unknown?
From the beginning of the Middle Ages, African Muslim kingdoms and city-states stretched from West Africa to East Africa. Mali is probably the most well-known and talked about, but even that is still limited and most of the discussion is about Timbuktu and not the Empire that absorbed and controlled it. Other states such as Kanem and Bornu, and the Hausa city-states are still largely unknown. Which brings me to Queen Amina, who supposedly inspired the Zena: Warrior Princess character (supposedly). White elites know our history much better than we do because they covered it up and forced us to forget. Is the silence based on religion? Not wanting to display an Islamic empire (much less a caliphate) in ANY light at all? Positive or negative?
It's interesting because Amina of Zaria (Zaria is in present-day Nigeria by the way) is said to have led a cavalry of 35,000 and introduced iron armor and helmets due to the nations iron industry. She built fortifications with walls, most of which probably no longer stand. It's known that the Zaria walls have been taken down (I fear Africa's architectual history has all but been lost). Much of the connection with the Hausa for instance to me seems a bit jumbled and confused. Were they a separate group?
Even though it's widely accepted that Africa had a caliphate during the late Middle Ages and into the 19th century...very few websites will mention it that way. Most give a very rough general summary...and that's because I don't believe many know much about these cultures and how they operated. There needs to be a new chronicle written on West/Central African Islamic tradition (along with everything else in African historiography).
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posted
"western" researchers are so infactuated with northeastern Africa that the rest of Africa rarely gets the same attention. Much of "sub-Saharan" Africa remains under-excavated. Much of what "westerners" know about the Sudanic complexes outside of the few excavation cites that have been examined, for example, come from works of medieval travelers. On the eastern side of the continent, not even proto Ge'ez scripts have been fully cracked by "westerners" to my knowledge. Yes, Timbuktu comparatively gets a lot of attention than other understated but very important pieces of the Sudanic anthropological and archeological puzzle, BUT a good deal of its scholarship record which has yet to be cracked, may serve a crucial role in bringing to fore, a lot of other aspects about the Malian complex outside of the Timbuktu confines that we previously had no access to. As a learning capital, surely it would have had to have also been a place to gather records about what was happening in the other corners of Mali at the time, i.e. the whole of Mali, including the state of affairs of its foreign policy. In fact, Timbuktu scholars themselves refuted claims about mythical Almoravid conquests of Sudan; recalling...
Yet evidence quite contradictory to the Moroccan claims comes from south of the Sahara, from the Muslim scholars of Timbuktu. Muhammad al-Mahdi's attempt to extend his rule into the Sahara and beyond is mentioned also by Abd al-Rhman al-Sa'di, the author of Ta'rikh al-Sudan, which is an invaluable source for Songhay history, and almost contemporary with Marmol. But al-Sa'di nowhere mentioned that the Moroccan claims over western Sudan were affirmed by any Almoravid precedent. Perhaps such justification was not used in this particular instance, or perhaps al-Sa'di edited it out—we can never know--but his silence rather suggests that such a precedent did not exist at all.
Moreover, there is another scholar, the celebrated Ahmad Baba, who denied without hesitation that any conquest of the Sudan by Muslims in the more remote past ever took place--in a document written in 1024/1616 entitled Al-Kashf wa'l-bayan li-asnaf majlub al-Sudan, ("Enslavable categories among the blacks revealed and explained"). - Masonen & Fisher
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posted
I disagree with the argument on western scholars. Although they are obsessed with North-East Africa which is true. I firmly believe that it is up to us, as blacks to do more academic scholarship and research. On the whole of Africa and parts of the so-called Middle-East. But this is more in reference to West-Africa, the sub-Sahara.
Anyway,
Shamil Jeppie, Souleymane Bachir Diagne (eds). The Meanings of Timbuktu
Roderick and Susan McIntosh excavated at Jenne-jeno and neighboring sites in 1977 and 1981 and returned in 1994 for coring and more survey, with funding from the National Science Foundation of the United States, the American Association of University Women, and the National Geographic Society (1994). This research formed the basis of their Ph.D. dissertations at Cambridge University and the University of California at Santa Barbara, respectively. The McIntoshes have published two monographs and numerous articles on their archaeological research in the Middle Niger. They are professors of anthropology at Rice University in Houston, Texas, and they continue to collaborate with Malian colleagues from the Institut des Sciences Humaines on research along the Middle Niger.
Jenne-Jeno is an important site because it provides our only insight into the changes that occurred before the trans-Saharan trade (Jenne 1)
Its peak was reached between 450-1100 C. E. There were organized cemeteries, copper and bronze ornaments, and constructed houses. The two most noticeable changes during its peak were cylindrical brick houses replacing mud houses and impressive stamp decorations replacing painted pottery. A brick wall that ran almost 2 km around the town (3.7 m wide) was also built. Jenne-Jeno reached its maximum area of 100 acres in 850 C.E. (Jenne 3).
As the climate grew dryer, Islamic influences appeared. Rectangular houses were built and the Islamic religion was introduced. 1200-1400 C.E. was the beginning of the decline of this site. The weather changed and crops began to fail. Divisions occurred as some people moved and some converted religions. By 1400 C.E. Jenne-Jeno strangely had become a ghost town (Jenne 4).
Today, the land of Jenne-Jeno is dry and desert like. It is under constant threat of pillaging. Artifacts from the site are being stolen and sold for millions on the black market (Rice 3). Articles are being published and TV specials are being broadcast to try to persuade thieves not to steal, or at least make it harder (Rice 5). As artifacts continue to disappear, so do the answers to the mysteries of Jenne-Jeno.
Around the 12th century, the University of Timbuktu had an attendance of 25, 000 students in a city which had a population of 100, 000 people. The students came from all corners of the African continent in search of excellence in knowledge and trade. On graduation day, students were given Turbans.
Dr Hassimi O Maiga Director of Research, Univerisity of Mali, Africa
Dr Ali Mazrui Albert Sweitzer Professor in the Humanities Institute of Global Cultural Studies State University of New York, Binghamton, NY
Imam W. Deen Mohammed (RIP) Leader and Spokesperson American Society of Muslims, Chicago, IL
Dr Sulayman S Nyang Professor and Head of Department, African Studies Howard University, Washington D.C
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf Gulfport, MS
Theodore Jones
Azim Asalati
Abdul Malik Ali
Hari Peramal
Ibrahim McFarlin
Board of Advisors:
Hisham Al-Alalusi President, Pressure Grout Company Hayward, CA
Dr Joyce King Provost, Spelman College Atlanta, GA
Dr Wade Nobles Professor, San Francisco State University Execute Director of the Institute for Advanced Study of Black Family Life and Culture Inc. Oakland, CA
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Which part? That they pay more attention to northeastern Africa than they do much of Africa, especially "sub-Saharan" Africa? Oh, but wait, let's look below...
quote:
Although they are obsessed with North-East Africa which is true.
So you agree with something actually said. Now what do you disagree with, that is actually said?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Over thousands of years the Tuareg people of North and West Africa mastered the Sahara and repelled or controlled outsiders, earning a near-mythic reputation as noble warriors. Today, modernity and geopolitics are proving as formidable as the unforgiving desert. As trucks slowly replace camels for transport, cash displaces camels or other animals as currency, and state governments overpower indigenous structures, the Tuareg face pressures that threaten their way of life.
Among the more than 1 million Tuareg—pastoral nomads, settled farmers and, increasingly, city dwellers—one group stands out for its adaptability to change. They are the inadan, artists and smiths once considered near the bottom rung of Tuareg society. Inadan possess a highly marketable skill: the ancient knowledge of how to fashion jewelry and other handicrafts embellished with intriguing symbols. (See sidebar.) By venturing into global markets and meeting the tastes of new customers, their endurance in a cash economy seems more assured than that of the Tuareg elite.
Which part? That they pay more attention to northeastern Africa than they do much of Africa, especially "sub-Saharan" Africa? Oh, but wait, let's look below...
quote:
Although they are obsessed with North-East Africa which is true.
So you agree with something actually said. Now what do you disagree with, that is actually said?
As I said, WE have to take responsibility as well. And not just wait for others. That is of course if you truly want to continue the legacy of our predecessors and ancestors. Which so many of us claim (rightfully so)
Anyway,
Johann-Wolfgang-Goethe University
The Dufuna Dugout - Africa's Oldest Boat by Peter Breunig
In 1987 the find of a fully preserved boat was made at the site of Dufuna, between Potiskum and Gashua on the Komadugu Gana. The boat is stratified 5 m below clays and sands whose alternating sequence is evidence of deposition in standing and flowing water. The radiocarbon dates for the boat are: 7264 ± 55 bp (KN-4683) and 7670 ± 110 bp (KI-3587) (uncalibrated). This makes it the oldest known boat in Africa and one of the oldest in the world. Excavation is scheduled for April 1998. The conservation will be done in a museum recently built in Damaturu.
P. Breunig, The 8000-year-old dugout canoe from Dufuna (NE Nigeria). In: G. Pwiti and R. Soper (eds.), Aspects of African Archaeology. Papers from the 10th Congress of the PanAfrican Association for Prehistory and related Studies. University of Zimbabwe Publications (Harare 1996) 461-468.
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P. Breunig, The 8000-year-old dugout canoe from Dufuna (NE Nigeria), G. Pwiti and R. Soper (eds.), Aspects of African Archaeology. Papers from the 10th Congress of the PanAfrican Association for Prehistory and related Studies. University of Zimbabwe Publications (Harare 1996) 461-468.
As I said, WE have to take responsibility as well. And not just wait for others.
And who said that Africans should not take responsibility in learning their past? Cite it.
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posted
How Old is the Iron Age in Sub-Saharan Africa? Africa's Storied Past
Archaeological Institute of America Volume 52 Number 3, May/June 1999
by Roderick J. McIntosh, professor of anthropology at Rice University
For too long, many scholars dismissed Africa as a cultural backwater unworthy of serious study. But 50 years of archaeology have shown that the continent has pottery thousands of years older than that of the Near East and Europe, true steel two and a half millennia before its nineteenth-century European "invention," and urban civilizations without despots and wars. These are more than just African insights; they are fundamental revelations about how humans have interacted with each other and their environment and how societies have changed in the past.
Archaeologists long thought that agriculture must always have preceded herding, but during the last 20 years, evidence has emerged that in Africa full-time herding appeared as early as 7500 B.C., millennia before farming. It was also thought that the idea of plant domestication was imported from the Near East around the turn of the third millennium B.C., but experiments with sorghum and millet began as early as 9,000 years ago, and full domestication independent of Near Eastern developments happened as early as 900 B.C. Furthermore, some regions of Africa have all the hallmarks of sedentarism (living year-round in the same place) without agriculture, quite at odds with the traditional model of the emergence of villages, derived from the Near Eastern Neolithic, as a consequence of cereal farming.
In Africa and just about everywhere else, archaeologists long assumed that monuments, palatial architecture, and conspicuously wealthy burials reflected some degree of stratified, state organization. A number of African cases, however, suggest that more egalitarian societies could also build great monuments, and that large cities could develop without palaces and elite burials.
Archaeologists long argued that the spread of Bantu-speaking people throughout Africa was rapid, no earlier than the first millennium A.D., and facilitated by their superior knowledge of iron technology. But excavations at various sites have shown that there is no abrupt change from the Late Stone Age (supposedly pre-Bantu) to the Iron Age (early Bantu). Stone remained in use even after iron was introduced, and so-called proto-Bantu ceramics appear even before iron. This is not to underestimate the importance of iron in Africa. Iron furnaces have been found dating from the eighth century B.C., and possibly as early as 1300 B.C.; true steel was invented by the middle of the first millennium B.C.
We can also now appreciate that the African response to outside contact was anything but passive. Slave forts and colonial cities had adjacent African trading settlements, and new states arose thanks to the economic realities of the times or new technologies like firearms or steamships.
Despite severe financial crises, several African nations have a well-trained second generation of archaeologists trained in Africa. The challenge for these scholars is to cajole their governments into adequately funding field research, museums, and research institutions; to ensure the passage of cultural property protection laws; and to find ways to make archaeology relevant to the concerns of all citizens. If they succeed, not only will they have won a victory for Africa, but they will have set an example for the rest of the world.
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As I said, WE have to take responsibility as well. And not just wait for others.
And who said that Africans should not take responsibility in learning their past? Cite it.
The initial statement made is saying so; directly or indirectly! Beggin for crumbs. In other words we have too many doing ghetto scholarship.
WE, AS BLACKS, NEED TO CONTINUE THE LEGACY OF ACADEMIC BLACK SCHOLARSHIP! I DON'T HAVE TO MENTION NAMES HERE, I HOPE!
This here is not a matter of discussion, going back-and-forth. But taking mater in our own hand and look at the actual facts!
Anyway,
Ideology and the Archaeological Record in Africa: Interpreting Symbolism in Iron Smelting Technology.
By Peter Schmidt and Bertram Mapunda. Journal of Anthropological Archaeology. Vol. 16. No 1 1997 pp. 73-102. Article NO.AA970305
Iron in Africa: Revising the History The Dogon Blacksmiths
Video: The Tree of Iron
Technical Glossary of Ironworking Terms
The smelting movie was chosen for this project for a number of reasons. Essentially it is a good example of an ethnographic movie in that it highlights and examines an ongoing process that contains many examples of ritual and these are captured in the film. The position of the smith is a respected one, he is a ritual specialist, able to 'cure' iron-ore and produce the highly prized metal.
The technological process of smelting in this particular instance seems to be a variety that is not commonly described. All the other descriptions of furnaces that I have come across mention a chimney for example, and several tuyeres. However ritual is a significant part of the process. That the actual technical process is a skilled and complicated procedure there is no doubt, the ritual may act to disguise the technical process, thus ensuring the privileges
Smelting in Africa has a varied and widespread history. Today traditional smelting has all but died out, and the industry was initially affected by the importation of cheap European iron at the turn of the century. That the iron smelting in the film was occurring as late as 1937 is in itself by all accounts unusual.
The film is also of interest as it is a piece of work that has been carried out by two of Major Powell-Cotton's daughters, Diana and Antoinette. This fact allows for another perspective on the museum collection. Also women ethnographic film makers in the 1930's were a rare breed.
The movie contains several good examples of ritual behaviour. Also I have had access to the field-notes of the people who made the film. What I have tried to achieve by the combination of video and text is not only an insight and explanation of the Ovambo and their smelting tradition, but also some insight into the thinking and construction of the film makers themselves. Neither women were anthropologists and I am sure that this is apparent from looking at the notes in terms of how much more information there could be, as well as some of the descriptive comments. The typed field notes have been reproduced as they were found in the museum archives, including spelling and grammatical errors, in order to give the user a sense of comparison with the film. Things discussed in the field notes are not necessarily recorded in the film.
The initial statement made is saying so; directly or indirectly! Beggin for crumbs. In other words we have too many doing ghetto scholarship.
You are full of hot air. You have nothing to quote me on with your red herring. Making things up from thin air does not give you an upper hand, it only exposes you as a fraud.
Here is a good example of ghetto scholarship:
As I said, WE have to take responsibility as well. And not just wait for others. - by 9th Element.
..."in other words", your lies.
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Dr. Ron Eglash Associate Professor Department of Science and Technology Studies Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI)
Ron Eglash on African fractals
Quote:
I want to start my story in Germany, in 1877, with a mathematician named Georg Cantor. And Cantor decided he was going to take a line and erase the middle third of the line, and take those two resulting lines and bring them back into the same process, a recursive process. So he starts out with one line, and then two, and then four, and then 16, and so on. And if he does this an infinite number of times, which you can do in mathematics, he ends up with an infinite number of lines, each of which has an infinite number of points in it. So he realized he had a set whose number of elements was larger than infinity. And this blew his mind. Literally. He checked into a sanitarium.(Laughter) And when he came out of the sanitarium, he was convinced that he had been put on earth to found transfinite set theory, because the largest set of infinity would be God Himself. He was a very religious man. He was a mathematician on a mission.
Unquote.
Quote:
And the most interesting thing I found out about it was historical. In the 12th century, Hugo Santalia brought it from Islamic mystics into Spain. And there it entered into the alchemy community as geomancy: divination through the earth. This is a geomantic chart drawn for King Richard II in 1390. Leibniz, the German mathematician, talked about geomancy in his dissertation called "De Combinatoria." And he said, "Well, instead of using one stroke and two strokes, let's use a one and a zero, and we can count by powers of two." Right? Ones and zeros, the binary code. George Boole took Leibniz's binary code and created Boolean algebra, and John von Neumann took Boolean algebra and created the digital computer.
So all these little PDAs and laptops -- every digital circuit in the world -- started in Africa.
And I know Brian Eno says there's not enough Africa in computers; ...
The initial statement made is saying so; directly or indirectly! Beggin for crumbs. In other words we have too many doing ghetto scholarship.
You are full of hot air. You have nothing to quote me on with your red herring. Making things up from thin air does not give you an upper hand, it only exposes you as a fraud.
Here is a good example of ghetto scholarship:
As I said, WE have to take responsibility as well. And not just wait for others. - by 9th Element.
..."in other words", your lies.
As I said before I have no time to go back-and-forth.
And certainly not when people are using nonsense terms such as fraud, over nothing.
I stated the FACTS! TOO MANY GHETTO SCHOLARSHIP!
IT'S A SHAME MANY QUOTE FROM THESE VERY SHAME ACADEMICS, AND LET THEM DO THE HARD WORK, YET DON'T WANT TO ATTEND COLLEGE OR THE UNIVERSITY "INSTITUTIONS", FOR ALL KIDS OF WEIRD REASONS! YET, DON'T SETUP THEIR OWN INSTITUTIONS, NOW WHO IS THE FRAUD. LOL
LOOK AT "MY" POSTS HERE, HOW THEY LIE! LOL
Pathetic nonsense!
Anyway,
DISCOVERY IN WEST AFRICA.; An ex-French Consul Finds Evidences that the Ancient Egyptians Penetrated There.
CAIRO, Dec. 8 -- An interesting discovery has been lately made regarding the Egyptian ancestry of West African races, a problem which is of great interest to anthropologists. According to Leo, intercourse was established between Egypt and Negro-land -- that is, the Western Soudan -- in A.D. 990, but it has long been thought that relationship existed long prior to those days...
As I said before I have no time to go back-and-forth.
And certainly not when people are using nonsense terms such as fraud, over nothing.
Screw your time. Where is that quote you are supposed to be disagreeing with? Ah, of course, you can't; it doesn't exist. Get out of the ghetto, pick up a dictionary and learn the meaning of "fraud", and you'll see why your red herring makes you a good example of one.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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As I said before I have no time to go back-and-forth.
And certainly not when people are using nonsense terms such as fraud, over nothing.
Screw your time. Where is that quote you are supposed to be disagreeing with? Ah, of course, you can't; it doesn't exist. Get out of the ghetto, pick up a dictionary and learn the meaning of "fraud", and you'll see why your red herring makes you a good example of one.
Ghetto?
Do I live in a Ghetto now? LOL
You don't have to say it directly and can be done indirectly! Isn't that obvious!?
All I can say here is that you have been really helpful with your inputs in this thread. It was all really helpful. GHETTO'S OF THE MIND!
Anyway,
The Neolithic at Ounjougou is represented by three broad and distinct phases of settlement, marked by significant techno-economic and cultural changes.
Between 9,500 and 7,000 BC, the Early Neolithic saw the precocious emergence of pottery, which appeared at the same time as the development of a strategies for selective and intensive foraging for grains in a landscape of vast grassy plains. The Middle Neolithic is particularly known for a technological aspect – the specialized production of bifacial points on quartzitic sandstone, dated between the 6th and 4th millennia BC.
The Late Neolithic is associated with pronounced cultural and economic changes, with the influence around 2,500 BC of populations arriving from the Sahara, followed by the arrival after 1,800 BC of the first millet cultivators in the region (see the article "The Late Neolithic").
The Neolithic of the Dogon Plateau ended around 300 BC, with the onset of an extremely arid climatic episode.
You don't have to say it directly and can be done indirectly! Isn't that obvious!?
What's obvious, is that you ghetto folks can't put two alphabets together to know what a word means. Learn to read, and drop making fairy tales that you "disagree" with.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: What is that, moron speak?
Now I am a moron?
Perhaps, MOOR ON. YES THAT!
I happen to be multilingual and I made a typo. BIG DEAL, HUH! LOL
Your posts on this thread are showing that you are the fraud! Amazing, all your academic inputs.
FRAUD:
"criminal deception," mid-14c., from O.Fr. fraude, from L. fraudem (nom. fraus) "deceit, injury." The noun meaning "impostor, humbug" is attested from 1850. Pious fraud "deception practiced for the sake of what is deemed a good purpose" is from 1560s.
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Ever heard of asking questions, before jumping the gun? Apparently not, hence the frantic defensive posture to convince yourself that your fairy tales exist. Wake up, buddy. Join us on earth.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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You don't have to say it directly and can be done indirectly! Isn't that obvious!?
What's obvious, is that you ghetto folks can't put two alphabets together to know what a word means. Learn to read, and drop making fairy tales that you "disagree" with.
LOL,
I happen to be a IT-engineer. With a special interest in history and archeology!
Anyway,
The Neolithic at Ounjougou is represented by three broad and distinct phases of settlement, marked by significant techno-economic and cultural changes.
Between 9,500 and 7,000 BC, the Early Neolithic saw the precocious emergence of pottery, which appeared at the same time as the development of a strategies for selective and intensive foraging for grains in a landscape of vast grassy plains. The Middle Neolithic is particularly known for a technological aspect – the specialized production of bifacial points on quartzitic sandstone, dated between the 6th and 4th millennia BC.
The Late Neolithic is associated with pronounced cultural and economic changes, with the influence around 2,500 BC of populations arriving from the Sahara, followed by the arrival after 1,800 BC of the first millet cultivators in the region (see the article "The Late Neolithic").
The Neolithic of the Dogon Plateau ended around 300 BC, with the onset of an extremely arid climatic episode.
quote: With a special interest in history and archeology!
You should take a special interest in learning how to read, and stop misinterpreting people. Learn to tell the difference between what is said and what is not said.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: "western" researchers are so infactuated with northeastern Africa that the rest of Africa rarely gets the same attention. Much of "sub-Saharan" Africa remains under-excavated. Much of what "westerners" know about the Sudanic complexes outside of the few excavation cites that have been examined, for example, come from works of medieval travelers. On the eastern side of the continent, not even proto Ge'ez scripts have been fully cracked by "westerners" to my knowledge. Yes, Timbuktu comparatively gets a lot of attention than other understated but very important pieces of the Sudanic anthropological and archeological puzzle, BUT a good deal of its scholarship record which has yet to be cracked, may serve a crucial role in bringing to fore, a lot of other aspects about the Malian complex outside of the Timbuktu confines that we previously had no access to. As a learning capital, surely it would have had to have also been a place to gather records about what was happening in the other corners of Mali at the time, i.e. the whole of Mali, including the state of affairs of its foreign policy. In fact, Timbuktu scholars themselves refuted claims about mythical Almoravid conquests of Sudan; recalling...
Yet evidence quite contradictory to the Moroccan claims comes from south of the Sahara, from the Muslim scholars of Timbuktu. Muhammad al-Mahdi's attempt to extend his rule into the Sahara and beyond is mentioned also by Abd al-Rhman al-Sa'di, the author of Ta'rikh al-Sudan, which is an invaluable source for Songhay history, and almost contemporary with Marmol. But al-Sa'di nowhere mentioned that the Moroccan claims over western Sudan were affirmed by any Almoravid precedent. Perhaps such justification was not used in this particular instance, or perhaps al-Sa'di edited it out—we can never know--but his silence rather suggests that such a precedent did not exist at all.
Moreover, there is another scholar, the celebrated Ahmad Baba, who denied without hesitation that any conquest of the Sudan by Muslims in the more remote past ever took place--in a document written in 1024/1616 entitled Al-Kashf wa'l-bayan li-asnaf majlub al-Sudan, ("Enslavable categories among the blacks revealed and explained"). - Masonen & Fisher
"western" researchers are so infactuated with northeastern Africa that the rest of Africa rarely gets the same attention. Much of "sub-Saharan" Africa remains under-excavated.
Much of "sub-Saharan" Africa remains under-excavated. Much of what "westerners" know about the Sudanic complexes outside of the few excavation cites that have been examined, for example, come from works of medieval travelers.
Perhaps, a suggestion here. WE as blacks can do this ourselves? Or, do we need westerners to excavate or us?
Hope, I don't struck a nerve here and get any of y'all angry.
By the way you have a nice Blog, I have always enjoyed reading it.
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quote: With a special interest in history and archeology!
You should take a special interest in learning how to read, and stop misinterpreting people. Learn to tell the difference between what is said and what is not said.
Thanks for your concern, but I can read very well, in multiple languages!
Did you like my post references, or not?
Posts: 447 | Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: [qb] "western" researchers are so infactuated with northeastern Africa that the rest of Africa rarely gets the same attention. Much of "sub-Saharan" Africa remains under-excavated. Much of what "westerners" know about the Sudanic complexes outside of the few excavation cites that have been examined, for example, come from works of medieval travelers. On the eastern side of the continent, not even proto Ge'ez scripts have been fully cracked by "westerners" to my knowledge. Yes, Timbuktu comparatively gets a lot of attention than other understated but very important pieces of the Sudanic anthropological and archeological puzzle, BUT a good deal of its scholarship record which has yet to be cracked, may serve a crucial role in bringing to fore, a lot of other aspects about the Malian complex outside of the Timbuktu confines that we previously had no access to. As a learning capital, surely it would have had to have also been a place to gather records about what was happening in the other corners of Mali at the time, i.e. the whole of Mali, including the state of affairs of its foreign policy. In fact, Timbuktu scholars themselves refuted claims about mythical Almoravid conquests of Sudan; recalling...
Yet evidence quite contradictory to the Moroccan claims comes from south of the Sahara, from the Muslim scholars of Timbuktu. Muhammad al-Mahdi's attempt to extend his rule into the Sahara and beyond is mentioned also by Abd al-Rhman al-Sa'di, the author of Ta'rikh al-Sudan, which is an invaluable source for Songhay history, and almost contemporary with Marmol. But al-Sa'di nowhere mentioned that the Moroccan claims over western Sudan were affirmed by any Almoravid precedent. Perhaps such justification was not used in this particular instance, or perhaps al-Sa'di edited it out—we can never know--but his silence rather suggests that such a precedent did not exist at all.
Moreover, there is another scholar, the celebrated Ahmad Baba, who denied without hesitation that any conquest of the Sudan by Muslims in the more remote past ever took place--in a document written in 1024/1616 entitled Al-Kashf wa'l-bayan li-asnaf majlub al-Sudan, ("Enslavable categories among the blacks revealed and explained"). - Masonen & Fisher
"western" researchers are so infactuated with northeastern Africa that the rest of Africa rarely gets the same attention. Much of "sub-Saharan" Africa remains under-excavated.
Much of "sub-Saharan" Africa remains under-excavated. Much of what "westerners" know about the Sudanic complexes outside of the few excavation cites that have been examined, for example, come from works of medieval travelers.
Perhaps, a suggestion here. WE as blacks can do this ourselves? Or, do we need westerners to excavate or us?
Hope, I don't struck a nerve here and get any of y'all angry.
By the way you have a nice Blog, I have always enjoyed reading it.
Let me save you the trouble. You are reading too much into what's being said, and hence, reading it totally out of context. My post comes from the angle of the intro-post, about Timbuktu being relatively more known than the Malian empire itself, of which it was a part, and that many of the medieval "Islamic" kingdoms, presumably outside of coastal northern African areas, are little known. Little known by whom, one might ask, in the context of intro-post? Seeing as how the author of the thread is a "westerner", then this author must be speaking from a "westerner's" perspective about what said author has learned from whatever academic material that is accessible in the "west". This is why I spoke of state of "western" interest in African history. Nowhere in that post, is it stated that Africans hold no responsibility for learning their past. Who do you think preserved those Timbuktu manuscripts all this time, if not the locals? Why did they do that, if they did not feel it was important to keep, if not to preserve knowledge about their past and pass it onto to future generations?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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2. Why is African's strong Islamic past still largely unknown?
From the beginning of the Middle Ages, African Muslim kingdoms and city-states stretched from West Africa to East Africa. Mali is probably the most well-known and talked about, but even that is still limited and most of the discussion is about Timbuktu and not the Empire that absorbed and controlled it. Other states such as Kanem and Bornu, and the Hausa city-states are still largely unknown. Which brings me to Queen Amina, who supposedly inspired the Zena: Warrior Princess character (supposedly). White elites know our history much better than we do because they covered it up and forced us to forget. Is the silence based on religion? Not wanting to display an Islamic empire (much less a caliphate) in ANY light at all? Positive or negative?
It's interesting because Amina of Zaria (Zaria is in present-day Nigeria by the way) is said to have led a cavalry of 35,000 and introduced iron armor and helmets due to the nations iron industry. She built fortifications with walls, most of which probably no longer stand. It's known that the Zaria walls have been taken down (I fear Africa's architectual history has all but been lost). Much of the connection with the Hausa for instance to me seems a bit jumbled and confused. Were they a separate group?
Even though it's widely accepted that Africa had a caliphate during the late Middle Ages and into the 19th century...very few websites will mention it that way. Most give a very rough general summary...and that's because I don't believe many know much about these cultures and how they operated. There needs to be a new chronicle written on West/Central African Islamic tradition (along with everything else in African historiography).
Maybe this is helpful, in answering your question:
The enslavement of Africans started right farther the Moors civilization was destroyed. Moors ruled of Spain from 711 to 1492
Popes For Slavery
Pope Nicholas V issued the papal bull Dum Diversas on 18 June, 1452.
It authorised Alfonso V of Portugal to reduce any “Saracens (Muslims) and pagans and any other unbelievers” to perpetual slavery. This facilitated the Portuguese slave trade from West Africa.
The same pope wrote the bull Romanus Pontifex on January 5, 1455 to the same Alfonso.
As a follow-up to the Dum diversas, it extended to the Catholic nations of Europe dominion over discovered lands during the Age of Discovery. Along with sanctifying the seizure of non-Christian lands, it encouraged the enslavement of native, non-Christian peoples in Africa and the New World.
“We weighing all and singular the premises with due meditation, and noting that since we had formerly by other letters of ours granted among other things free and ample faculty to the aforesaid King Alfonso -- to invade, search out, capture, vanquish, and subdue all Saracens and pagans whatsoever, and other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed, and the kingdoms, dukedoms, principalities, dominions, possessions, and all movable and immovable goods whatsoever held and possessed by them and to reduce their persons to perpetual slavery, and to apply and appropriate to himself and his successors the kingdoms, dukedoms, counties, principalities, dominions, possessions, and goods, and to convert them to his and their use and profit…”
In 1493 Alexander VI issued the bull Inter Caetera stating one Christian nation did not have the right to establish dominion over lands previously dominated by another Christian nation, thus establishing the Law of Nations.
Together, the Dum Diversas, the Romanus Pontifex and the Inter Caetera came to serve as the basis and justification for the Doctrine of Discovery, the global slave-trade of the 15th and 16th centuries, and the Age of Imperialism.
1492 Battle of Granada - January 2 - Ferdinand II of Aragon defeated the last Muslim kingdom in Andalusia, Granada of sultan Boabdil
1492 - Columbus reaches America.
The year 1452, the year 1466, the year 1492, the year 1493, the year 1591:
1591 feb 28, The Sultan of Morocco launched his successful attack to capture Timbuktu. Morocco sent soldiers under the Muslim Spaniard Judar Pasha to conquer Songhai. After a five month journey across the Sahara, Pasha arrived, his soldiers carried guns and Gao. The 25,000 men of the Songhai were no match for the guns, Timbuktu and most of Songhai fall. The Songhai had guns too. But most of them didn’t know yet, how the gun worked. A lot of books were taken to Morocco.
Today, there are still 700,000 manuscripts in Timbuktu and surroundings that are on the verge of being lost if the appropriate action is not taken. These manuscripts represent a turning point in the history of Africa and its people. The translation and publication of the manuscripts of Timbuktu will restore self-respect, pride, honor and dignity to the people of Africa and those descended from Africa; it will also obliterate the stereo-typical images of Tarzan and primitive savages as true representation of Africa and its civilization.
The manuscripts of Timbuktu are a living testimony of the highly advanced and refined civilization in Sub-Sahara Africa. Before the European Renaissance, Timbuktu flourished as the greatest academic and commercial center in Africa. Great empires such as Ghana, Mali, and Songhai were proofs of the talents, creativity and ingenuity of the African people. The University of Timbuktu produced both Black African scholars and leaders of the highest rank, character and nobility.
The manuscripts of Timbuktu cover diverse subjects such as mathematics, chemistry, physics, optics, astronomy, medicine, Islamic sciences, history, geography, the traditions, government legislation and treaties, jurisprudence and much more.
It's all self explanatory here, if you ask me.
Original painting of george washington with Benjamin Banneker aka Prince Hall aka Prince Whipple aka Ben Franklin...wearing a red turban...
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: [qb] "western" researchers are so infactuated with northeastern Africa that the rest of Africa rarely gets the same attention. Much of "sub-Saharan" Africa remains under-excavated. Much of what "westerners" know about the Sudanic complexes outside of the few excavation cites that have been examined, for example, come from works of medieval travelers. On the eastern side of the continent, not even proto Ge'ez scripts have been fully cracked by "westerners" to my knowledge. Yes, Timbuktu comparatively gets a lot of attention than other understated but very important pieces of the Sudanic anthropological and archeological puzzle, BUT a good deal of its scholarship record which has yet to be cracked, may serve a crucial role in bringing to fore, a lot of other aspects about the Malian complex outside of the Timbuktu confines that we previously had no access to. As a learning capital, surely it would have had to have also been a place to gather records about what was happening in the other corners of Mali at the time, i.e. the whole of Mali, including the state of affairs of its foreign policy. In fact, Timbuktu scholars themselves refuted claims about mythical Almoravid conquests of Sudan; recalling...
Yet evidence quite contradictory to the Moroccan claims comes from south of the Sahara, from the Muslim scholars of Timbuktu. Muhammad al-Mahdi's attempt to extend his rule into the Sahara and beyond is mentioned also by Abd al-Rhman al-Sa'di, the author of Ta'rikh al-Sudan, which is an invaluable source for Songhay history, and almost contemporary with Marmol. But al-Sa'di nowhere mentioned that the Moroccan claims over western Sudan were affirmed by any Almoravid precedent. Perhaps such justification was not used in this particular instance, or perhaps al-Sa'di edited it out—we can never know--but his silence rather suggests that such a precedent did not exist at all.
Moreover, there is another scholar, the celebrated Ahmad Baba, who denied without hesitation that any conquest of the Sudan by Muslims in the more remote past ever took place--in a document written in 1024/1616 entitled Al-Kashf wa'l-bayan li-asnaf majlub al-Sudan, ("Enslavable categories among the blacks revealed and explained"). - Masonen & Fisher
"western" researchers are so infactuated with northeastern Africa that the rest of Africa rarely gets the same attention. Much of "sub-Saharan" Africa remains under-excavated.
Much of "sub-Saharan" Africa remains under-excavated. Much of what "westerners" know about the Sudanic complexes outside of the few excavation cites that have been examined, for example, come from works of medieval travelers.
Perhaps, a suggestion here. WE as blacks can do this ourselves? Or, do we need westerners to excavate or us?
Hope, I don't struck a nerve here and get any of y'all angry.
By the way you have a nice Blog, I have always enjoyed reading it.
Let me save you the trouble. You are reading too much into what's being said, and hence, reading it totally out of context. My post comes from the angle of the intro-post, about Timbuktu being relatively more known than the Malian empire itself, of which it was a part, and that many of the medieval "Islamic" kingdoms, presumably outside of coastal northern African areas, are little known. Little known by whom, one might ask, in the context of intro-post? Seeing as how the author of the thread is a "westerner", then this author must be speaking from a "westerner's" perspective about what said author has learned from whatever academic material that is accessible in the "west". This is why I spoke of state of "western" interest in African history. Nowhere in that post, is it stated that Africans hold no responsibility for learning their past. Who do you think preserved those Timbuktu manuscripts all this time, if not the locals? Why did they do that, if they did not feel it was important to keep, if not to preserve knowledge about their past and pass it onto to future generations?
Ok, we can come to equal terms, and a mutual agreement here.
But I am not referring to the Timbuktu scrols and such. Of course I know it was preserved by indigenous Africans. I showed an abundance of scholarship on this topic. But I am speaking of actual academic field work, such as doing excavations and becoming active, rather proactive. Fact is that to many are just not "active enough", but rather sit back. Same goes for Egyptology archeology, history etc....
We cannot leave it up to a few, and those of the old-school ('80, early '90). We need continuation of their great legendary work. And it is black men and black women who need to do this. I hope you can agree with this, as I speak of black academic scholarship. We need change!
A KMTic education system, a Timbuktu education system, a Moorish aducation system.
Posts: 447 | Registered: Apr 2010
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2. Why is African's strong Islamic past still largely unknown?
From the beginning of the Middle Ages, African Muslim kingdoms and city-states stretched from West Africa to East Africa. Mali is probably the most well-known and talked about, but even that is still limited and most of the discussion is about Timbuktu and not the Empire that absorbed and controlled it. Other states such as Kanem and Bornu, and the Hausa city-states are still largely unknown. Which brings me to Queen Amina, who supposedly inspired the Zena: Warrior Princess character (supposedly). White elites know our history much better than we do because they covered it up and forced us to forget. Is the silence based on religion? Not wanting to display an Islamic empire (much less a caliphate) in ANY light at all? Positive or negative?
It's interesting because Amina of Zaria (Zaria is in present-day Nigeria by the way) is said to have led a cavalry of 35,000 and introduced iron armor and helmets due to the nations iron industry. She built fortifications with walls, most of which probably no longer stand. It's known that the Zaria walls have been taken down (I fear Africa's architectual history has all but been lost). Much of the connection with the Hausa for instance to me seems a bit jumbled and confused. Were they a separate group?
Even though it's widely accepted that Africa had a caliphate during the late Middle Ages and into the 19th century...very few websites will mention it that way. Most give a very rough general summary...and that's because I don't believe many know much about these cultures and how they operated. There needs to be a new chronicle written on West/Central African Islamic tradition (along with everything else in African historiography).
Maybe this is helpful, in answering your question:
The enslavement of Africans started right farther the Moors civilization was destroyed. Moors ruled of Spain from 711 to 1492
Popes For Slavery
Pope Nicholas V issued the papal bull Dum Diversas on 18 June, 1452.
It authorised Alfonso V of Portugal to reduce any “Saracens (Muslims) and pagans and any other unbelievers” to perpetual slavery. This facilitated the Portuguese slave trade from West Africa.
The same pope wrote the bull Romanus Pontifex on January 5, 1455 to the same Alfonso.
As a follow-up to the Dum diversas, it extended to the Catholic nations of Europe dominion over discovered lands during the Age of Discovery. Along with sanctifying the seizure of non-Christian lands, it encouraged the enslavement of native, non-Christian peoples in Africa and the New World.
“We weighing all and singular the premises with due meditation, and noting that since we had formerly by other letters of ours granted among other things free and ample faculty to the aforesaid King Alfonso -- to invade, search out, capture, vanquish, and subdue all Saracens and pagans whatsoever, and other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed, and the kingdoms, dukedoms, principalities, dominions, possessions, and all movable and immovable goods whatsoever held and possessed by them and to reduce their persons to perpetual slavery, and to apply and appropriate to himself and his successors the kingdoms, dukedoms, counties, principalities, dominions, possessions, and goods, and to convert them to his and their use and profit…”
In 1493 Alexander VI issued the bull Inter Caetera stating one Christian nation did not have the right to establish dominion over lands previously dominated by another Christian nation, thus establishing the Law of Nations.
Together, the Dum Diversas, the Romanus Pontifex and the Inter Caetera came to serve as the basis and justification for the Doctrine of Discovery, the global slave-trade of the 15th and 16th centuries, and the Age of Imperialism.
1492 Battle of Granada - January 2 - Ferdinand II of Aragon defeated the last Muslim kingdom in Andalusia, Granada of sultan Boabdil
1492 - Columbus reaches America.
The year 1452, the year 1466, the year 1492, the year 1493, the year 1591:
1591 feb 28, The Sultan of Morocco launched his successful attack to capture Timbuktu. Morocco sent soldiers under the Muslim Spaniard Judar Pasha to conquer Songhai. After a five month journey across the Sahara, Pasha arrived, his soldiers carried guns and Gao. The 25,000 men of the Songhai were no match for the guns, Timbuktu and most of Songhai fall. The Songhai had guns too. But most of them didn’t know yet, how the gun worked. A lot of books were taken to Morocco.
Today, there are still 700,000 manuscripts in Timbuktu and surroundings that are on the verge of being lost if the appropriate action is not taken. These manuscripts represent a turning point in the history of Africa and its people. The translation and publication of the manuscripts of Timbuktu will restore self-respect, pride, honor and dignity to the people of Africa and those descended from Africa; it will also obliterate the stereo-typical images of Tarzan and primitive savages as true representation of Africa and its civilization.
The manuscripts of Timbuktu are a living testimony of the highly advanced and refined civilization in Sub-Sahara Africa. Before the European Renaissance, Timbuktu flourished as the greatest academic and commercial center in Africa. Great empires such as Ghana, Mali, and Songhai were proofs of the talents, creativity and ingenuity of the African people. The University of Timbuktu produced both Black African scholars and leaders of the highest rank, character and nobility.
The manuscripts of Timbuktu cover diverse subjects such as mathematics, chemistry, physics, optics, astronomy, medicine, Islamic sciences, history, geography, the traditions, government legislation and treaties, jurisprudence and much more.
It's all self explanatory here, if you ask me.
Original painting of george washington with Benjamin Banneker aka Prince Hall aka Prince Whipple aka Ben Franklin...wearing a red turban...
What do you mean when you say "Benjamin Banneker aka Prince Hall aka Prince Whipple aka Ben Franklin?"Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: "western" researchers are so infactuated with northeastern Africa that the rest of Africa rarely gets the same attention.
It is not true. The English literature is too poor concerning Northwest Africans (Berbers). How many books were written in English on the Berbers?
French literature is more rich, but we should keep in mind that they were colonists, so some or many books are not to be trusted.
I believe that African history is not well documented excepts the Egyptian one, but North West africa is again less worse documented than black Africa.
Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: "western" researchers are so infactuated with northeastern Africa that the rest of Africa rarely gets the same attention.
It is not true. The English literature is too poor concerning Northwest Africans (Berbers). How many books were written in English on the Berbers?
French literature is more rich, but we should keep in mind that they were colonists, so some or many books are not to be trusted.
I believe that African history is not well documented excepts the Egyptian one, but North West africa is again less worse documented than black Africa.
I have to disagree with you here, I have found book on the Roman North African kingdoms but I can't find any on Empires in Africa that were native and more complex and advanced than the Berber Kingdoms. For example I have a book on the Moorish Andalucia and on on Islamic Kingdoms that talk about Morocco and Algeria etc. Yet I can't find anything on Axum, Zanzibar/Kilwa, Christian Ethiopia, Christian Nubia, etc. I can find a select few on Mali, Songhai and Ghana but they are usually the same old info on can find on wikipedia and are boring containing no images to give a mental picture. It seems to me Africa is always portyed as more advenced in the North, as if all north Africans are blond blue eyed Berbers and their Arab overlords..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: "western" researchers are so infactuated with northeastern Africa that the rest of Africa rarely gets the same attention.
It is not true. The English literature is too poor concerning Northwest Africans (Berbers). How many books were written in English on the Berbers?
You are disagreeing over nothing. Your post is speaking of "northwestern" Africa, and the citation above is speaking of "northeastern" Africa, meaning Egypt. Northwestern Africa would therefore fall into that "rest of Africa" that the citation mentions.
quote: I believe that African history is not well documented excepts the Egyptian one, but North West africa is again less worse documented than black Africa.
Well, there is much documentation on Local-foreign complexes like that of Carthage, but ancient all-indigenous complexes predating that complex and/or contemporaneous to it are comparatively less understood by Euro scholars. No doubt, fragmentary archeological finds in the Sahara and coastal northwestern Africa have something to do with it. Much of what Euro scholars know about medieval coastal northwestern African complexes, as is the case with the Sudan, comes from medieval travelers and historians generally from the Iberian peninsula, and in some cases, local historians of the region. I question the notion that coastal northwestern Africa has fared worse than the western Sudan, when it comes to "western" enthusiasm in digging into the past. Dare I say that much of what lies south of the equatorial regions, fare even worse than the equatorial regions, when it comes to "western" interest and knowledge of the history of the areas thereof. In fact, if you look at molecular genetics, you'll have noticed that a great deal more attention is given to coastal northwest Africa, than "sub-Saharan" west Africa. "Sub-Saharan" Africa in general is hardly bothered with, save for a few spots of special interest, like say in the African Horn and southern African hunter gatherer holdouts; these "sub-Saharan" concerns hold such exception only because Euros have come to the understanding that eastern Africa may have served as a major migratory corridor of "OOA" migrants, of which they considered themselves a part, and they believe that the populations in the said locales can offer them insight into their own (Euro) bio-history. And even in these exceptional cases, Euro interest came hand in hand with caricaturization of such populations as ones particularly having no complete, true or pure "negro" physical qualities about them. Meanwhile large segments of the continent remain under-studied, which would otherwise serve as the "links" between the unconnected puzzles; take for instance the discovery in the Chadic region, of the oldest fossil record of human paleontology in the form of a skull, notwithstanding fanfare around eastern Africa for its richness in fossils. We are told:
At 6-7 million years, the newly found Sahelanthropus from Chad, is the oldest known member of the human line of the ape-human family tree. - Courtesy archaeology.org, by the Archaeological Institute of America, 2002
There could be other interesting and important pieces, like the Chad Skull, of the human paleontological puzzle in areas of the continent where dust has not yet been brushed away, along with the secrets that they hold about human bio-evolutionary history.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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