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Author Topic: 1- Basic database of Nile Valley studies
zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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CONDENSED RECAP - narrow screen


 -

Recent studies find the ancient
Egyptians had a tropical body plan like
sub-Saharan 'black' Africans and were
not cold-adapted like European type
populations. Tropical body plans also
indicate darker-skin.



QUOTE:
"The raw values in Table 6 suggest that
Egyptians had the "super-Negroid" body
plan described by Robins (1983).. This
pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot
of population mean femoral and tibial
lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which
indicates that the Egyptians generally
have tropical body plans. Of the
Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and
Early Dynastic period populations have
shorter tibiae than predicted from
femoral length. Despite these
differences, all samples lie relatively
clustered together as compared to the
other populations." (Zakrzewski, S.R.
(2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian
stature and body proportions". American
Journal of Physical Anthropology 121
(3): 219-229.


a 2008 Study puts the ancient
Egyptians closer to US Blacks than
whites:


Quotes:

"Intralimb (crural and brachial) indices
are significantly higher in ancient
Egyptians than in American Whites
(except crural index among females),
i.e., Egyptians have relatively longer
distal segments (Table 4). Intralimb
indices are not significantly different
between Egyptians and American
Blacks... Many of those who have
studied ancient Egyptians have
commented on their characteristically
''tropical'' or ''African'' body plan
(Warren, 1897; Masali, 1972; Robins,
1983; Robins and Shute, 1983, 1984,
1986; Zakrzewski, 2003). Egyptians also
fall within the range of modern African
populations (Ruff and Walker, 1993),
but close to the upper limit of modern
Europeans as well, at least for the crural
index (brachial indices are definitely
more ''African'').. In terms of femoral and
tibial length to total skeletal height
proportions, we found that ancient
Egyptians are significantly different from
US Blacks, although still closer to
Blacks than to Whites.


Comparisons of linear body proportions
of Old Kingdom and non-Old Kingdom
period individuals, and workers and high
officials in our sample found no
statistically significant differences
among them. Zakrzewski (2003) also
found little evidence for differences in
linear body proportions of Egyptians
over a wider temporal range. In general,
recent studies of skeletal variation
among ancient Egyptians support
scenarios of biological continuity
through time. Irish (2006) analyzed
quantitative and qualitative dental traits
of 996 Egyptians from Neolithic through
Roman periods, reporting the presence
of a few outliers but concluding that the
dental samples appear to be largely
homogeneous and that the affinities
observed indicate overall biological
uniformity and continuity from
Predynastic through Dynastic and
Postdynastic periods.

Zakrzewski (2007) provided a
comprehensive summary of previous
Egyptian craniometric studies and
examined Egyptian crania from six time
periods. She found that the earlier
samples were relatively more
homogeneous in comparison to the later
groups. However, overall results
indicated genetic continuity over the
Egyptian Predynastic and Early Dynastic
periods, albeit with a high level of
genetic diversity within the population,
suggesting an indigenous process of state
formation. She also concluded that while
the biological patterning of the Egyptian
population varied across time, no
consistent temporal or spatial trends are
apparent. Thus, the stature estimation
formulae developed here may be broadly
applicable to all ancient Egyptian
populations.."
("Stature estimation in ancient
Egyptians: A new technique based on
anatomical reconstruction of stature."
Michelle H. Raxter, Christopher B. Ruff,
Ayman Azab, Moushira Erfan,
Muhammad Soliman, Aly El-Sawaf,
(Am J Phys Anthropol. 2008,
Jun;136(2):147-55


Older limb studies find the same:

"In this regard it is interesting to note
that limb proportions of Predynastic
Naqada people in Upper Egypt are
reported to be "Super-Negroid," meaning
that the distal segments are elongated in
the fashion of tropical Africans.....skin
color intensification and distal limb
elongation are apparent wherever people
have been long-term residents of the
tropics." (C.L. Brace, 1993. Clines and
clusters..")


"An attempt has been made to estimate
male and female Egyptian stature from
long bone length using Trotter & Gleser
negro stature formulae, previous work by
the authors having shown that these
rather than white formulae give more
consistent results with male dynastic
material... When consistency has been
achieved in this way, predynastic
proportions are founded to be such that
distal segments of the limbs are even
longer in relation to the proximal
segments than they are in modern
negroes. Such proportions are termed
"super-negroid"...

Robins (1983) and Robins & Shute
(1983) have shown that more consistent
results are obtained from ancient
Egyptian male skeletons if Trotter &
Gleser formulae for negro are used,
rather than those for whites which have
always been applied in the past. .. their
physical proportions were more like
modern negroes than those of modern
whites, with limbs that were relatively
long compared with the trunk, and distal
segments that were long compared with
the proximal segments. If ancient
Egyptian males had what may be termed
negroid proportions, it seems reasonable
that females did likewise."
(Robins G, Shute CCD. 1986.
Predynastic Egyptian stature and
physical proportions. Hum Evol
1:313-324. Ruff CB. 1994.)



[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_70QeG
oT_fmI/SvDA2TtDM7I/AAAAAAAAA
Vg/bF6aNFiWNTY/s1600/raxterrufftrin
khauscombo.jpg[/IMG]

Modern anthropology shows that the
ancient Egyptians are well within the
range of tropical Africa, contradicting
older research in the 1990s that sought to
deny any relationship. The
anthropologist below, Nancy Lovell was
recommended by Mary lefkowitz in
Black Athena Revisted.



"There is now a sufficient body of
evidence from modern studies of skeletal
remains to indicate that the ancient
Egyptians, especially southern
Egyptians, exhibited physical
characteristics that are within the range
of variation for ancient and modern
indigenous peoples of the Sahara and
tropical Africa.. In general, the
inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia
had the greatest biological affinity to
people of the Sahara and more southerly
areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians,
physical anthropology of," in
Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of
Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and
Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and
New York: Routledge, 1999) pp
328-332)


The ancient Badarians were quite
representative of ancient Egyptians as a
whole and showed clear links with
tropical Africans to the south. They have
been sometimes excluded in studies of
the ancient Egyptian population, which
shows continuity in its history, not mass
influxes of foreigners until the late
periods.


Quotes:
"As a result of their facial prognathism,
the Badarian sample has been described
as forming a morphological cluster with
Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or
"Negroid") groups (Morant, 1935, 1937;
Mukherjee et al., 1955; Nutter, 1958,
Strouhal, 1971; Angel, 1972; Keita,
1990). Cranial nonmetric trait studies
have found this group to be similar to
other Egyptians, including much later
material (Berry and Berry, 1967, 1972),
but also to be significantly different from
LPD material (Berry et al., 1967).
Similarly, the study of dental nonmetric
traits has suggested that the Badarian
population is at the centroid of Egyptian
dental samples (Irish, 2006), thereby
suggesting similarity and hence
continuity across Egyptian time periods.
From the central location of the Badarian
samples in Figure 2, the current study
finds the Badarian to be relatively
morphologically close to the centroid of
all the Egyptian samples. The Badarian
have been shown to exhibit
greatest morphological similarity with
the temporally successive EPD (Table
5). Finally, the biological distinctiveness
of the Badarian from other Egyptian
samples has also been demonstrated
(Tables 6 and 7).

These results suggest that the EDyn do
form a distinct morphological pattern.
Their overlap with other Egyptian
samples (in PC space, Fig. 2) suggests
that although their morphology is
distinctive, the pattern does overlap with
the other time periods. These results
therefore do not support the Petrie
concept of a \Dynastic race" (Petrie,
1939; Derry, 1956). Instead, the results
suggest that the Egyptian state was not
the product of mass movement of
populations into the Egyptian Nile
region, but rather that it was the result of
primarily indigenous development
combined with prolonged small-scale
migration, potentially from trade,
military, or other contacts.

This evidence suggests that the process
of state formation itself may have been
mainly an indigenous process, but that it
may have occurred in association with
in-migration to the Abydos region of the
Nile Valley. This potential in-migration
may have occurred particularly during
the EDyn and OK. A possible
explanation is that the Egyptian state
formed through increasing control of
trade and raw materials, or due to
military actions, potentially associated
with the use of the Nile Valley as a
corridor for prolonged small scale
movements through the desert
environment.
(Sonia R. Zakrzewski. (2007).
Population Continuity or Population
Change: Formation of the Ancient
Egyptian State. AMERICAN JOURNAL
OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY
132:501-509)



Ancient Egyptians most related to
other Africans and are part of a Nilotic
continuity rather than something
Mediterranean or Middle Eastern


"Certainly there was some foreign
admixture [in Egypt], but basically a
homogeneous African population had
lived in the Nile Valley from ancient to
modern times... [the] Badarian people,
who developed the earliest Predynastic
Egyptian culture, already exhibited the
mix of North African and Sub-Saharan
physical traits that have typified
Egyptians ever since (Hassan 1985;
Yurco 1989; Trigger 1978; Keita 1990..
et al.,)... The peoples of Egypt, the
Sudan, and much of East African
Ethiopia and Somalia are now generally
regarded as a Nilotic continuity, with
widely ranging physical features
(complexions light to dark, various hair
and craniofacial types) but with powerful
common cultural traits, including cattle
pastoralist traditions.." (Frank Yurco,
"An Egyptological Review," 1996 -in
Mary R. Lefkowitz and Guy MacLean
Rogers, Black Athena Revisited, 1996,
The University of North Carolina Press,
p. 62-100)


African peoples are the most diverse
in the world whether analyzed by DNA
or skeletal or cranial methods. Attempts
to deny this are rooted in racism and
error. African people, particularly
SUB-SAHARAN Africans, vary the
most in how they look, more so than any
other population in the world.


"Estimates of genetic diversity in major
geographic regions are frequently made
by pooling all individuals into regional
aggregates. This method can potentially
bias results if there are differences in
population substructure within regions,
since increased variation among local
populations could inflate regional
diversity. A preferred method of
estimating regional diversity is to
compute the mean diversity within local
populations. Both methods are applied to
a global sample of craniometric data
consisting of 57 measurements taken on
1734 crania from 18 local populations in
six geographic regions: sub-Saharan
Africa, Europe, East Asia, Australasia,
Polynesia, and the Americas. Each
region is represented by three local
populations.

Both methods for estimating regional
diversity show sub-Saharan Africa to
have the highest levels of phenotypic
variation, consistent with many genetic
studies."
(Relethford, John "Global Analysis of
Regional Differences in Craniometric
Diversity and Population Substructure".
Human Biology - Volume 73, Number 5,
October 2001, pp. 629-636)


#
"In addition, craniometric variation also
shows agreement with genetic data in
showing highest levels of diversity in
sub-Saharan Africa than in other
geographic regions (Relethford and
Harpending, 1994). Further, there is a
clear decline in levels of craniometric
variation as geographic distance from
East Africa increases (Manica et al.,
2007; von Cramon-Taubadel and Lycett,
2008; Betti et al., 2009)."
-- John H. Relethford* (2010).
Population-Specific Deviations of
Global Human Craniometric Variation
From a Neutral Model. AMERICAN
JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL
ANTHROPOLOGY 2010

"The living peoples of the African
continent are diverse in facial
characteristics, stature, skin color, hair
form, genetics, and other characteristics.
No one set of characteristics is more
African than another. Variability is also
found in "sub-Saharan" Africa, to which
the word "Africa" is sometimes
erroneously restricted. There is a
problem with definitions. Sometimes
Africa is defined using cultural factors,
like language, that exclude developments
that clearly arose in Africa. For example,
sometimes even the Horn of Africa
(Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea) is excluded
because of geography and language and
the fact that some of its peoples have
narrow noses and faces.

However, the Horn is at the same
latitude as Nigeria, and its languages are
African. The latitude of 15 degree passes
through Timbuktu, surely in
"sub-Saharan Africa," as well as
Khartoum in Sudan; both are north of
the Horn. Another false idea is that
supra-Saharan and Saharan Africa were
peopled after the emergence of
"Europeans" or Near Easterners by
populations coming from outside Africa.
Hence, the ancient Egyptians in some
writings have been de-Africanized.
These ideas, which limit the definition of
Africa and Africans, are rooted in racism
and earlier, erroneous "scientific"
approaches." (S. Keita, "The Diversity
of Indigenous Africans," in Egypt in
Africa, Theodore Clenko, Editor (1996),
pp. 104-105. [10])



Modern DNA studies find even
though some African peoples look
different, they are genetically related
through the PN2 transition clade of the
Y-chromosone. Haplogroup E links
numerous peoples together even though
they don't look exactly the same.


"But the Y-chromosome clade defined
by the PN2 transition (PN2/M35,
PN2/M2) shatters the boundaries of
phenotypically defined races and true
breeding populations across a great
geographical expanse. African peoples
with a range of skin colors, hair forms
and physiognomies have substantial
percentages of males whose Y
chromosomes form closely related clades
with each other, but not with others who
are phenotypically similar. The
individuals in the morphologically or
geographically defined 'races' are not
characterized by 'private' distinct
lineages restricted to each of them." (S O
Y Keita, R A Kittles, et al.
"Conceptualizing human variation,"
Nature Genetics 36, S17 - S20 (2004)


"Recall that the Horn-Nile Valley crania
show, as a group, the largest overlap
with other regions. A review of the
recent literature indicates that there are
male lineage ties between African
peoples who have been traditionally
labeled as being ''racially'' different, with
''racially'' implying an ontologically deep
divide. The PN2 transition, a Y
chromosome marker, defines a lineage
(within the YAPþ derived haplogroup E
or III) that emerged in Africa probably
before the last glacial maximum, but
after the migration of modern humans
from Africa (see Semino et al., 2004).
This mutation forms a clade that has two
daughter subclades (defined by the
biallelic markers M35/215 (or 215/M35)
and M2) that unites numerous
phenotypically variant African
populations from the supra-Saharan,
Saharan, and sub-Saharan regions.."
(S.O.Y Keita. Exploring northeast
African metric craniofacial variation at
the individual level: A comparative
study using principal component
analysis. Am. J. Hum. Biol. 16:679-689,
2004.)
keita2004neanalysis.htm

"Africa contains tremendous cultural,
linguistic and genetic diversity, and has
more than 2,000 distinct ethnic groups
and languages.. Studies using
mitochondrial (mt)DNA and nuclear
DNA markers consistently indicate that
Africa is the most genetically diverse
region of the world." (Tishkoff SA,
Williams SM., Genetic analysis of
African populations: human evolution
and complex disease. Nature Reviews
Genetics. 2002 Aug (8):611-21.)


DNA of some modern Egyptians
found a genetic ancestral heritage to East
Africa:

"The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA)
diversity of 58 individuals from Upper
Egypt, more than half (34 individuals)
from Gurna, whose population has an
ancient cultural history, were studied by
sequencing the control-region and
screening diagnostic RFLP markers.
This sedentary population presented
similarities to the Ethiopian population
by the L1 and L2 macrohaplogroup
frequency (20.6%), by the West Eurasian
component (defined by haplogroups H to
K and T to X) and particularly by a high
frequency (17.6%) of haplogroup M1.
We statistically and phylogenetically
analysed and compared the Gurna
population with other Egyptian, Near
East and sub-Saharan Africa
populations; AMOVA and Minimum
Spanning Network analysis showed that
the Gurna population was not isolated
from neighbouring populations. Our
results suggest that the Gurna population
has conserved the trace of an ancestral
genetic structure from an ancestral East
African population, characterized by a
high M1 haplogroup frequency. The
current structure of the Egyptian
population may be the result of further
influence of neighbouring populations
on this ancestral population."
(Stevanovitch A, Gilles A, Bouzaid E, et
al. (2004) Mitochondrial DNA sequence
diversity in a sedentary population from
Egypt.Ann Hum Genet. 68(Pt 1):23-39.)

Tishkoff et al on Africa having the
most genetic diversity:


"Africa contains tremendous cultural,
linguistic and genetic diversity, and has
more than 2,000 distinct ethnic groups
and languages (see online link to
Ethnologue). Studies using
mitochondrial (mt)DNA and nuclear
DNA markers consistently indicate that
Africa is the most genetically diverse
region of the world(TABLE
1).However,most studies report only a
few markers in divergent African
populations, which makes it difficult to
draw general conclusions about the
levels and patterns of genetic diversity in
these populations (FIG. 1). Because
genetic studies have been biased towards
more economically developed African
countries that have key research or
medical centres, populations from more
underdeveloped or politically unstable
regions of Africa remain undersampled
(FIG. 1). Historically, human population
genetic studies have relied on one or two
African populations as being
representative of African diversity, but
recent studies show extensive genetic
variation among even geographically
close African populations, which
indicates that there is not a single
'representative' African population."
-- Tishkoff NATURE REVIEWS |
GENETICS VOLUME 3 | AUGUST
2002


Mainstream scholars note that genetic
studies often usen a narrow range of
stereotyped samples to represent
'Africans', even splitting off peoples of
the Horn of Africa as some seperate "non
african" type or race.[b]

"Genetic studies that attempt to recover
the biological history of the species have
generally found that there is a split
between their restricted African samples
and "the rest of the world." These
approaches conceptualize human
population history as a series of
bifurcations with each node being
relatively uniform. The "Africans"
usually used are either the short statured
Aka or Mbuti, Khoisan speakers, or
West African stereotypes, in keeping
with a socially, not scientifically
constructed concept of African. Studies
using individuals as the unit of analysis
evince a different pattern. A select subset
of Africans called the "group of 49"
forms a unit versus the rest of
humankind. However the latter
individuals ("rest of humankind") also
includes non-East African sub-Saharans.
Hence there is no "racial" split. As has
been stated, the idea that human
variation can be described as being
structured by subspecies(races) that are
treated as lineages is fundamentally
false. In actuality, also, although
averages are used, the gene studies
usually give us histories that are not
necessarily the same as population
histories."
(Writing African History Chapter 4,
Physical Anthropology and African
History, Shomarka Keita University of
Rochester Press p.134

[b]Continent wide African DNA
linkages

"The most extensive pan-African
haplotype (16189 16192 16223 16278
16294 16309 16390) is in the L2a1
haplogroup. This sequence is observed
in West Africa among the Malinke,
Wolof, and others; in North Africa
among the Maure, Hausa, Fulbe, and
others; in Central Africa among the
Bamileke, Fali, and others; in South
Africa among the Khoisan family
including the Khwe and Bantu speakers;
and in East Africa among the Kikuyu.
Closely related variants are observed
among the Tuareg in North and West
Africa and among the East African
Dinka and Somali."
(-- Bert Ely , Jamie Lee Wilson ,
Fatimah Jackson and Bruce A Jackson.
(2006). African-American mitochondrial
DNAs often match mtDNAs found in
multiple African ethnic groups. BMC
Biology 2006, 4:34)

"It is of interest that the M35 and M2
lineages are united by a mutation - the
PN2 transition. This PN2 defined clade
originated in East Africa, where various
populations have a notable frequency of
its underived state. This would suggest
that an ancient population in East Africa,
or more correctly its males, form the
basis of the ancestors of all African
upper Paleolithic populations - and their
subsequent descendants in the present
day."
(--Bengston, John D. (ed.), In Hot
Pursuit of Language in Prehistory:
Essays in the four fields of anthropology.
2008. John Benjamins Publishing: pp.
3-16)



Egyptian Y-chromosome haplotypes
show preponderance is with African
clusters not Europe or the Near East



Other DNA quotes from S.O.Y. Keita
See:
http://www.geocities.com/keitadnaquote
s.htm


Recent DNA studies of the Sudan
show genetic unity and linkage between
the Sudanic, Horn, Egyptian, Nubian and
other Nilotic peoples, confirming earlier
skeletal/cranial studies and historical
data. (Yurco (1989, 1996), Keita
(1993,2004, 2005) Lovell (1999),
Zakrewski (2003, 2007) et. al). Of note
is that DNA data shows that some
peoples linked to one of the oldest
Egyptian populations, the original Copts,
have a significant frequency of the
B-M60 marker, indicating early
colonization of Egypt by Nilotics in the
state formation period.


QUOTES:

"Haplogroup E-M78, however, is more
widely distributed and is thought to have
an origin in eastern African. More
recently, this haplogroup has been
carefully dissected and was found to
depict several well-established subclades
with defined geographical clustering
(Cruciani et al., 2006, 2007). Although
this haplogroup is common to most
Sudanese populations, it has
exceptionally high frequency among
populations like those of western Sudan
(particularly Darfur) and the Beja in
eastern Sudan... Although the PC plot
places the Beja and Amhara from
Ethiopia in one sub-cluster based on
shared frequencies of the haplogroup J1,
the distribution of M78 subclades (Table
2) indicates that the Beja are perhaps
related as well to the Oromo on the basis
of the considerable frequencies of E-V32
among Oromo in comparison to Amhara
(Cruciani et al., 2007)...

These findings affirm the historical
contact between Ethiopia and eastern
Sudan (1998), and the fact that these
populations speak languages of the
Afroasiatic family tree reinforces the
strong correlation between linguistic and
genetic diversity (Cavalli-Sforza, 1997)."

"Genetic continuum of the Nubians with
their kin in southern Egypt is indicated
by comparable frequencies of E-V12 the
predominant M78 subclade among
southern Egyptians."
[Hassan et al. Y-chromosome
variation.." Am J. Phy Anthro. v137,3.
316-323

"The Copt samples displayed a most
interesting Y-profile, enough (as much
as that of Gaalien in Sudan) to suggest
that they actually represent a living
record of the peopling of Egypt. The
significant frequency of B-M60 in this
group might be a relic of a history of
colonization of southern Egypt probably
by Nilotics in the early state formation,
something that conforms both to
recorded history and to Egyptian
mythology."
Source:
(Hisham Y. Hassan 1, Peter A. Underhill
2, Luca L. Cavalli-Sforza 2, Muntaser E.
Ibrahim 1. (2008). Y-chromosome
variation among Sudanese: Restricted
gene flow, concordance with language,
geography, and history. Am J Phys
Anthropology, 2008.
Volume 137 Issue 3, Pages 316 - 323)


Older research notes the physical
makeup of the original Copts, now
confirmed by recent DNA data
above:

"In Libya, which is mostly desert and
oasis, there is a visible Negroid element
in the sedentary populations, and at the
same is true of the Fellahin of Egypt,
whether Copt or Muslim. Osteological
studies have shown that the Negroid
element was stronger in predynastic
times than at present, reflecting an early
movement northward along the banks of
the Nile, which were then heavily
forested." (Encyclopedia Britannica 1984
ed. "Populations, Human")


Haplogroup E3A and E3B represent
more than 70% of the Y-chromosones on
the African continent, with varying
proportions found in different parts of
the continent. In some African
populations for example, E3B exceeds
80%. Migrations out of Africa, are
responsible for the spread of E3b to
Europe. Non-Africans thus acquired a
sub-set f African genes through this
migration.


"In Europe, the overall frequency pattern
of haplogroup E-M78 does not support
the hypothesis of a uniform spread of
people from a single parental Near
Eastern population... The Y chromosome
specific biallelic marker DYS271
defines the most common haplogroup
(E3a) currently found in sub-Saharan
Africa. A sister clade, E3b (E-M215), is
rare in sub-Saharan Africa, but very
common in northern and eastern Africa.
On the whole, these two clades represent
more than 70% of the Y chromosomes of
the African continent. A third clade
belonging to E3 (E3c or E-M329) has
been recently reported to be present only
in eastern Africa, at low frequencies..
The new topology of the E3 haplogroup
is suggestive of a relatively recent
eastern African origin for the majority of
the chromosomes presently found in
sub-Saharan Africa."

"In conclusion, we detected the
signatures of several distinct processes
of migration and/or recurrent gene flow
associated with the dispersal of
haplogroup E3b lineages. Early events
involved the dispersal of E-M78d
chromosomes from eastern Africa into
and out of Africa, as well as the
introduction of the E-M34 subclade into
Africa from the Near East. Later events
involved short-range migrations within
Africa (E-M78? and E-V6) and from
northern Africa into Europe (E-M81 and
E-M78ß), as well as an important range
expansion from the Balkans to western
and southern-central Europe (E-M78a).
This latter expansion was the main
contributor to the present distribution of
E3b chromosomes in Europe."

(Cruciani, F, et. al. (2004)
Phylogeographic Analysis of
Haplogroup E3b (E-M215) Y
Chromosomes Reveals Multiple
Migratory Events Within and Out Of
Africa, Am J Hum Genet. 74(5):
1014-1022.)


Somalis link much more heavily with
African populations such as those in
Kenya and Ethiopia than Middle Eastern
or European ones according to DNA
evidence. Eurasian genes only accounted
for about 15% of the mix among
Somalis, typically associated with recent
Arab influence. On such key common
DNA markers as E3b1, Europeans only
weighed in at 5%, and Middle Easterners
at approximately 6%. The overwhelming
link of Somalis- over 85% of the total is
with Africans. Kenya and Ethiopia are
located in "sub-Saharan" Africa.


"The high frequency (77.6%) of
haplogroup E3b1 was characteristic of
male Somalis. The frequency of E3b1
was significantly lower in Ethiopian
Oromos (35.9%), Ethiopian Amharas
(22.9%), Egyptians (20.0%), Sudanese
(17.5%), Kenyans (15.1%),10 Iraqis
(6.3%), Northern Africans (6.1%),
Southern Europeans (0.5-5.1%) and
sub-Saharan populations." (Sanchez et
al.,(2005) High frequencies of Y
chromosome lineages characterized by
E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali
males, Eu J of Hum Genet (2005) 13,
856-866)[/i]



More on Haplogroups here:
http://www.tutorgig.com/ed/Haplogroup

More on Haplogroup E here: from
GENEBASE:
http://www.genebase.com/app/item.php?
aiId=35
"E1 is the predominant subclade, while
E2 is much less frequent. Within E1,
E1b1 (defined by SNP P2) is the most
abundant and widespread representative,
and accounts for most of Haplogroup E
worldwide. E1b1 lineages vary in
abundance over Africa and three main
regions are evident from the distribution
peaks of three subclades: E1b1a (SNP
M2) in Sub-Saharan Africa, E1b1b1a
(SNP M78) in East Africa and E1b1b1b
(SNP M81) in Northwest Africa. The
difference in geographic location of
Haplogroup E subclades also aligns with
distinct language groups supporting the
idea that there is prevailing father to son
transmission of language in Africa. "


--------------------------------------------------
----------------
Simplistic "race percentage" models
are dubious in Africa which has the
highest genetic diversity in the world.
That diversity proceeded from deeper
sub-Saharan Africa, to East and N.E.
Africa, then to the rest of the globe. All
other populations, including Europeans
and "Middle easterners" carry this
diversity which was built into Africa to
begin with. Africans thus don't need any
"race mix" to look different. Their
diversity is built-in and supplied the
whole globe. Any returnees or
"backflow" to Africa looked like
Africans. (Brace 2005, Hanihara 1996,
Holliday 2003).


" These studies suggest a recent and
primary subdivision between African
and non-African populations, high levels
of divergence among African
populations, and a recent shared
common ancestry of non-African
populations, from a population
originating in Africa. The intermediate
position, between African and
non-African populations, that the
Ethiopian Jews and Somalis occupy in
the PCA plot also has been observed in
other genetic studies (Ritte et al. 1993;
Passarino et al. 1998) and could be due
either to shared common ancestry or to
recent gene flow. The fact that the
Ethiopians and Somalis have a subset of
the sub-Saharan African haplotype
diversity and that the non-African
populations have a subset of the
diversity present in Ethiopians and
Somalis makes simple-admixture models
less likely; rather, these observations
support the hypothesis proposed by other
nuclear-genetic studies (Tishkoff et al.
1996a, 1998a, 1998b; Kidd et al. 1998)
that populations in northeastern Africa
may have diverged from those in the rest
of sub-Saharan Africa early in the
history of modern African populations
and that a subset of this
northeastern-African population
migrated out of Africa and populated the
rest of the globe. These conclusions are
supported by recent mtDNA analysis
(Quintana-Murci et al. 1999)."
[Tishkoff et al. (2000) Short
Tandem-Repeat Polymorphism/Alu
Haplotype Variation at the PLAT Locus:
Implications for Modern Human Origins.
Am J Hum Genet; 67:901-925]


Data on Ethiopian peoples like the
Oromo are underreported even though
they make up the largest group
percentage wise in the Ethiopian
population, (50%) and are often pooled
with others, hiding and obscuring their
overall contribution to the Ethiopian
gene pool.


"This difference, not revealed in the
study by Passarino et al. (1998), in
which the Oromo were
underrepresented, might reflect distinct
population histories."
(--Semino, et al. (2002). Ethiopians and
Khoisan Share the Deepest Clades of the
Human Y..")

"These data, together with those reported
elsewhere (Ritte et al. 1993a, 1993b;
Hammer et al. 2000) suggest that the
Ethiopian Jews acquired their religion
without substantial genetic admixture
from Middle Eastern peoples and that
they can be considered an ethnic group
with essentially a continental African
genetic composition." (Cruciani, et. al
Am J Hum Genet. 2002 May; 70(5):
1197-1214. "A Back Migration from
Asia to Sub-Saharan Africa Is Supported
by High-Resolution Analysis of Human
Y-Chromosome Haplotypes)

"An earlier generation of
anthropologists tried to explain face
form in the Horn of Africa as the result
of admixture from hypothetical
“wandering Caucasoids,”.. but that
explanation founders on the paradox of
why that supposedly potent “Caucasoid”
people contributed a dominant quantity
of genes for nose and face form but none
for skin color or limb proportions." --CL
Brace, 1993

[Afrocentric critic Mary Leftokwitz
says Egypt was peopled by persons from
sub-Saharan Africa:


"Recent work on skeletons and DNA
suggests that the people who settled in
the Nile valley, like all of humankind,
came from somewhere south of the
Sahara; they were not (as some
nineteenth-century scholars had
supposed) invaders from the North. See
Bruce G. Trigger, "The Rise of
Civilization in Egypt," Cambridge
History of Africa (Cambridge,
Cambridge University Press, 1982), vol
I, pp 489-90; S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies
and Comments on Ancient Egyptian
Biological Relationships," History in
Africa 20 (1993) 129-54.

(Mary Lefkotitz (1997). Not Out of
Africa: How Afrocentrism Became an
Excuse to Teach Myth as History. Basic
Books. pg 242) [/QB][/QUOTE]


In Black Athena Revisited, Lefkowitz
finds similarity between Egyptians and
Sudanics and recommends the work of
conservative anthropologist Nancy
Lovell for more research on the
subject.


Quote:
"not surprisingly, the Egyptian skulls
were not very distance from the Jebel
Moya [a Neolithic site in the southern
Sudan] skulls, but were much more
distance from all others, including those
from West Africa. Such a study suggests
a closer genetic affinity between peoples
in Egypt and the northern Sudan, which
were close geographically and are known
to have had considerable cultural contact
throughout prehistory and pharaonic
history... Clearly more analyses of the
physical remains of ancient Egyptians
need to be done using current
techniques, such as those of Nancy
Lovell at the University of Alberta is
using in her work.."



Lefkotitz cites Keita 1993 in Not Out
of Africa. Here is Keita on the Jebel
Moya studies?


"Overall, when the Egyptian crania
are evaluated in a Near Eastern (Lachish)
versus African (Kerma, Jebel Moya,
Ashanti) context) the affinity is with the
Africans. The Sudan and Palestine are
the most appropriate comparative
regions which would have 'donated'
people, along with the Sahara and
Maghreb. Archaeology validates looking
to these regions for population flow (see
Hassan 1988)... Egyptian groups showed
less overall affinity to Palestinian and
Byzantine remains than to other African
series, especially Sudanese." [/img]
S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments
on Ancient Egyptian Biological
Relationships," History in Africa 20
(1993) 129-54



Hereis the work of the anthropologist
so strongly recommended by Lefkowitz,
Nancy Lovell:



"There is now a sufficient body of
evidence from modern studies of skeletal
remains to indicate that the ancient
Egyptians, especially southern
Egyptians, exhibited physical
characteristics that are within the range
of variation for ancient and modern
indigenous peoples of the Sahara and
tropical Africa.. In general, the
inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia
had the greatest biological affinity to
people of the Sahara and more southerly
areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians,
physical anthropology of," in
Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of
Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and
Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and
New York: Routledge, 1999) pp
328-332)

and

"must be placed in the context of
hypotheses informed by archaeological,
linguistic, geographic and other data. In
such contexts, the physical
anthropological evidence indicates that
early Nile Valley populations can be
identified as part of an African lineage,
but exhibiting local variation. This
variation represents the short and long
term effects of evolutionary forces, such
as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural
selection, influenced by culture and
geography." ("Nancy C. Lovell, "
Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in
Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of
Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and
Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and
New York: Routledge, 1999). pp
328-332)


Obviously, this shows that the Egyptians
were completely white, and how foolish
the Afrocentrists are to reject this notion.
After all Afrocentric critic Mary
Lefkowitz recommends Lovell's
research..


The same Nancy Lovell
recommended by Lefkowitz studied
dental traits among some high status
persons of the key Egyptian Naqada
group and found that they resembled the
peoples of Nubia.


T. Prowse, and N. Lovell "Concordance
of cranial and dental morphological traits
and evidence for endogamy in ancient
Egypt"
American journal of physical
anthropology. 1996, vol. 101, no2, pp.
237-246 (2 p.1/4)


A biological affinities study based on
frequencies of cranial nonmetric traits in
skeletal samples from three cemeteries at
Predynastic Naqada, Egypt, confirms the
results of a recent nonmetric dental
morphological analysis. Both cranial and
dental traits analyses indicate that the
individuals buried in a cemetery
characterized archaeologically as high
status are significantly different from
individuals buried in two other,
apparently non-elite cemeteries and that
the non-elite samples are not
significantly different from each other. A
comparison with neighboring Nile
Valley skeletal samples suggests that the
high status cemetery represents an
endogamous ruling or elite segment of
the local population at Naqada, which is
more closely related to populations in
northern Nubia than to neighboring
populations in southern Egypt.



Lefkowitz warns against Eurocentric
"racial" analysis as to the Egyptians and
Nubians.


Quote:
"The Nubian tribute-bearers are painted
in two skin tones, black and dark brown.
These tones do not necessarily represent
actual skin tones in real life but may
serve to distinguish each tribute-bearer
from the next in a row in which the
figures overlap. Alternatively, the
brown-skinned people may be of Nubian
origin, and the black-skinned ones may
be farther south 9Trigger 1978, 33). The
shading of skin tones in Egyptian tomb
paintings, which varies considerably,
may not be a certain criterion for
distinguishing race. Specific symbols of
ethnic identity can also vary. Identifying
race in Egyptian representational art,
again, is difficult to do- probably
because race (as opposed to ethnic
affiliation, that is, Egyptians versus all
non-Egyptians) was not a criterion for
differentiation used by the ancient
Egyptians...



Northern Egypt shows more physical
variation than the south, but not
necessarily as part of any significant
'race' mix, but local, built-in variation.
They were closer to southerners than any
other peoples. In comparisons with
"Middle Eastern" populations of the
same ancient period, the Egyptians link
more closely with other Africans than
the Middle Easterners. Africans vary in
how they look because they have the
highest built-in molecular diversity to
begin with.


QUOTE(s):
"..sample populations available from
northern Egypt from before the 1st
Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi
Digla) turn out to be significantly
different from sample populations from
early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a
lack of common ancestors over a long
time. If there was a south-north cline
variation along the Nile valley it did not,
from this limited evidence, continue
smoothly on into southern Palestine. The
limb-length proportions of males from
the Egyptian sites group them with
Africans rather than with Europeans."
(Barry Kemp, "Ancient Egypt Anatomy
of a Civilisation. (2005) Routledge. p.
52-60)


"Individuals from different geographical
regions frequently plotted near each
other, revealing aspects of variation at
the level of individuals that is obscured
by concentrating on the most distinctive
facial traits once used to construct
''types.''The high level of African
interindividual variation in craniometric
pattern is reminiscent of the great level
of molecular diversity found in Africa."
(S.O.Y Keita. Exploring northeast
African metric craniofacial variation at
the individual level: A comparative
study using principal component
analysis. Am. J. Hum. Biol. 16:679-689,
2004.)

Quote on northern Egypt analysis- the
Qarunian (Faiyum) remains (c. 7000
BC)

"The body was that of a forty-year old
woman with a height of about 1.6
meters, who was of a more modern
racial type than the classic 'Mechtoid' of
the Fakhurian culture (see pp. 65-6),
being generally more gracile, having
large teeth and thick jaws bearing some
resemblance to the modern 'negroid'
type." (Beatrix Midant-Reynes, Ian Shaw
(2000). The Prehistory of Egypt.
Wiley-Blackwell. pg. 82)



Modern studies show diversity in how
people look is heavily based on distance
from sub-Saharan Africa, not merely
climate. In genetically diverse Africa,
broad-nosed people live on the cool or
cold mountain slopes of East Africa or
the hot, dry Sahara, and narrow-nosed
peoples like many Fulani like in the wet
tropics of West Africa.
Yellowish-skinned San tribes live in the
hot zones of Southern Africa.


"The relative importance of ancient
demography and climate in determining
worldwide patterns of human
within-population phenotypic diversity is
still open to debate. Several
morphometric traits have been argued to
be under selection by climatic factors,
but it is unclear whether climate affects
the global decline in morphological
diversity with increasing geographical
distance from sub-Saharan Africa. Using
a large database of male and female skull
measurements, we apply an explicit
framework to quantify the relative role
of climate and distance from Africa. We
show that distance from sub-Saharan
Africa is the sole determinant of human
within-population phenotypic diversity,
while climate plays no role. By selecting
the most informative set of traits, it was
possible to explain over half of the
worldwide variation in phenotypic
diversity. These results mirror those
previously obtained for genetic markers
and show that 'bones and molecules' are
in perfect agreement for humans."
(Distance from Africa, not climate,
explains within-population phenotypic
diversity in humans. (2008) by: Lia
Betti, François Balloux, William Amos,
Tsunehiko Hanihara, Andrea Manica,
Proceedings B: Biological Sciences,
2008/12/02)


Analysis of skeletal and cranial
remains reveals that the ancient
Egyptians of the early Dynastic and
pre-Dynastic phases, link closer to
nearby Saharan, Sudanic and East
African populations than Mediterranean
and Middle Eastern peoples. Greeks,
Romans, Hyskos, Arabs and others were
to appear later in Egyptian history.
Craniometric studies generally place
ancient Upper Egyptian populations
closer to the range of tropical Africans in
the Nile Valley and East Africa than to
Mediterraneans, or Middle
Easterners.


QUOTE(s):
S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments
on Ancient Egyptian Biological
Relationships," History in Africa 20
(1993) 129-54


"Overall, when the Egyptian crania are
evaluated in a Near Eastern (Lachish)
versus African (Kerma, Kebel Moya,
Ashanti) context) the affinity is with the
Africans. The Sudan and Palestine are
the most appropriate comparative
regions which would have 'donated'
people, along with the Sahara and
Maghreb. Archaeology validates looking
to these regions for population flow (see
Hassan 1988)... Egyptian groups showed
less overall affinity to Palestinian and
Byzantine remains than to other African
series, especially Sudanese." (Keita
1993)

"When the unlikely relationships [Indian
matches] and eliminated, the Egyptian
series are more similar overall to other
African series than to European or Near
Eastern (Byzantine or Palestinian)
series." (Keita 1993)

"Populations and cultures now found
south of the desert roamed far to the
north. The culture of Upper Egypt,
which became dynastic Egyptian
civilization, could fairly be called a
Sudanese transplant."(Egypt and
Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction.
Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by
Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press,
Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp.
465-472 )

"Analysis of crania is the traditional
approach to assessing ancient population
origins, relationships, and diversity. In
studies based on anatomical traits and
measurements of crania, similarities
have been found between Nile Valley
crania from 30,000, 20,000 and 12,000
years ago and various African remains
from more recent times (see Thoma
1984; Brauer and Rimbach 1990; Angel
and Kelley 1986; Keita 1993). Studies of
crania from southern predynastic Egypt,
from the formative period (4000-3100
B.C.), show them usually to be more
similar to the crania of ancient Nubians,
Kushites, Saharans, or modern groups
from the Horn of Africa than to those of
dynastic northern Egyptians or ancient or
modern southern Europeans."
(S. O. Y and A.J. Boyce, "The
Geographical Origins and Population
Relationships of Early Ancient
Egyptians", in Egypt in Africa, Theodore
Celenko (ed), Indiana University Press,
1996, pp. 20-33)


"There is no archaeological, linguistic, or
historical data which indicate a European
or Asiatic invasion of, or migration to,
the Nile Valley during First Dynasty
times. Previous concepts about the origin
of the First Dynasty Egyptians as being
somehow external to the Nile Valley or
less native are not supported by
archaeology... In summary, the Abydos
First Dynasty royal tomb contents reveal
a notable craniometric heterogeneity.
Southerners predominate. (Kieta, S.
(1992) Further Studies of Crania From
Ancient Northern Africa: An Analysis of
Crania From First Dynasty Egyptian
Tombs, Using Multiple Discriminant
Functions. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF
PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY
87:245-254)"

"The predominant craniometric pattern
in the Abydos royal tombs is 'southern'
(tropical African variant), and this is
consistent with what would be expected
based on the literature and other results
(Keita, 1990). This pattern is seen in
both group and unknown analyses...
Archaeology and history seem to provide
the most parsimonious explanation for
the variation in the royal tombs at
Abydos.. Tomb design suggests the
presence of northerners in the south in
late Nakada times (Hoffman, 1988)
when the unification probably took
place. Delta names are attached to some
of the tombs at Abydos (Gardiner, 1961;
Yurco, 1990, personal communication),
thus perhaps supporting Petrie's (1939)
and Gardiner's contention that
north-south marriages were undertaken
to legitimize the hegemony of the south.
The courtiers of northern elites would
have accompanied them.

Given all of the above, it is probably not
possible to view the Abydos royal tomb
sample as representative of the general
southern Upper Egyptian population of
the time. Southern elites and/or their
descendants eventually came to be
buried in the north (Hoffman, 1988).
Hence early Second Dynasty kings and
Djoser (Dynasty 111) (Hayes, 1953) and
his descendants are not buried in
Abydos. Petrie (1939) states that the
Third Dynasty, buried in the north, was
of Sudanese origin, but southern Egypt is
equally likely. This perhaps explains
Harris and Weeks' (1973) suggested
findings of southern morphologies in
some Old Kingdom Giza remains, also
verified in portraiture (Drake, 1987).
Further study would be required to
ascertain trends in the general population
of both regions. The strong Sudanese
affinity noted in the unknown analyses
may reflect the Nubian interactions with
upper Egypt in predynastic times prior to
Egyptian unification (Williams,
1980,1986)..." (S. Keita (1992) Further
Studies of Crania From Ancient
Northern Africa: An Analysis of Crania
From First Dynasty Egyptian Tombs,
Using Multiple Discriminant Functions.
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF
PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY
87:245-254)


"When the Elephantine results were
added to a broader pooling of the
physical characteristics drawn from a
wide geographic region which includes
Africa, the Mediterranean and the Near
East quite strong affinities emerge
between Elephantine and populations
from Nubia, supporting a strong
south-north cline. (Barry Kemp. (2006)
Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a
Civilization. p. 54)


Gene flow into the Nubian area
during the Neolithic was not from
reputed "wandering Caucasoids" but
from tropical, Sub-Saharan types.


"Prior to the Neolithic, populations of
the Nile Valley in Nubia are very robust,
and, because of a gap in the fossil record,
it is difficult to connect them to later
populations. Some have postulated a
local evolution, due to diet change, while
others postulated migrations, especially
from the Sahara area. But between 5000
and 1000 BC, many cemeteries have
supplied a large amount of skeletons,
and the anatomical characters of Nubian
populations are easier to follow-up.
Twenty-seven archaeological samples (4
at 5000 BC, 5 at 4000 BC, 10 at 3000
BC, 3 at 2000 BC, 5 at 1000 BC), and 10
craniofacial measurements, have been
considered. While cerebral skull is fairly
stable, facial skull displays several
regular modifications, and specially a
reduction of facial and nasal heights, a
broadening of the nose, and an increase
of prognathism, while bizygomatic
breadth is unchanged. These features
illustrate a trend towards a growing
resemblance with populations of
Sub-Saharan Africa living in wet
environments. However,
paleoclimatological studies show that
Nubia experienced an increasing
aridification during that period. It is then
unlikely that such a morphological
change could be related to any local
adaptive evolution to environment.
Random drift is also unlikely, because
the anatomical trend is relatively
uniform during these millennia. It then
seems more plausible that these changes
correspond to the increasing presence of
Southern populations migrating
northward."
-- Froment, A. (2002) Morphological
micro-evolution of Nubian Populations
from, A-Group to Christian Epochs:
gene flow, not local adaptation. Am J
Phys Anthropol [Suppl] 34:72.

Afrocentric critic Froment also notes:
"Black populations of the Horn of Africa
(Tigré and Somalia) fit well into
Egyptian variations." (Froment, Alain,
Origines du peuplement de l’Égypte
ancienne: l’apport de l’anthropobiologie,
Archéo-Nil 2 (Octobre 1992), 79-98)

Afrocentric critic C. Loring Brace's
2005 study groups ancient Egyptian
populations like the Naqada closer to
Nubians and Somalis than European,
Mediterranean or Middle Eastern
populations. Brace's study shows that the
closest European linking with Africans
in Egypt or Nubia are Middle Stone Age
Portugese and Neolithics, OLDER
populations more closely resembling
AFRICANS than modern Europeans.
Early Neolithic populations, like the
Nautifians, in what is now Israel, show
sub-Saharan 'negroid' affinities. (Brace,
et al. The questionable contribution of
the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to
European craniofacial form, Proc Natl
Acad Sci U S A. 2006 January 3; 103(1):
p. 242-247.)





"The Niger-Congo speakers, Congo,
Dahomey and Haya, cluster closely with
each other and a bit less closely with the
Nubian sample, both the recent and the
Bronze Age Nubians, and more remotely
with the Naqada Bronze Age sample of
Egypt, the modern Somalis, and the
Arabic-speaking Fellaheen (farmers) of
Israel. When those samples are separated
and run in a single analysis as in Fig. 1,
there clearly is a tie between them that is
diluted the farther one gets from
sub-Saharan Africa" (Brace, 2005)

"The surprise is that the Neolithic
peoples of Europe and their Bronze Age
successors are not closely related to the
modern inhabitants, although the
prehistoric/modern ties are somewhat
more apparent in southern Europe. It is a
further surprise that the Epipalaeolithic
Natufian of Israel from whom the
Neolithic realm was assumed to arise has
a clear link to Sub-Saharan Africa...
Interestingly enough, however, the small
Natufian sample falls between the
Niger-Congo group and the other
samples used. Fig. 2 shows the plot
produced by the first two canonical
variates, but the same thing happens
when canonical variates 1 and 3 (not
shown here) are used. This placement
suggests that there may have been a
Sub-Saharan African element in the
make-up of the Natufians (the putative
ancestors of the subsequent Neolithic), ..
When canonical variates are plotted,
neither sample ties in with Cro-Magnon
as was once suggested. The data treated
here support the idea that the Neolithic
moved out of the Near East into the
circum-Mediterranean areas and Europe
by a process of demic diffusion but that
subsequently the in situ residents of
those areas, derived from the Late
Pleistocene inhabitants, absorbed both
the agricultural life way and the people
who had brought it." (Brace, 2005)


Both skeletal/cranial and DNA
studies by other authors confirm that
some Neolithics did not derive from the
Near East. They most likely resembled
African populations. Hence comparisons
using older European Neolithics versus
Africans are comparisons with older
prehistoric Europeans who looked more
like Africans, than modern 'white'
Europeans, as shown by Brace (2005),
and Hanihara (1996) also, who states
"Early West Asians looked like
Africans."


"The absence of mtDNA haplogroup J in
the ancient Portuguese Neolithic sample
suggests that this population was not
derived directly from Near Eastern
farmers. The Mesolithic and Neolithic
groups show genetic discontinuity
implying colonisation at the Neolithic
transition in Portugal." (CHANDLER,
H.; SYKES, B.; ZILHÃO, J. (2005) -
Using ancient DNA to examine genetic
continuity at the Mesolithic-Neolithic
transition in Portugal, in ARIAS, P.;
ONTAÑÓN, R.; GARCÍA-MONCÓ, C.
(eds.) - «Actas del III Congreso del
Neolítico en la Península Ibérica»,
Santander, Monografías del Instituto
Internacional de Investigaciones
Prehistóricas de Cantabria 1, p.
781-786.)

"Early Europeans still resembled modern
tropical peoples - some resemble modern
Australian and Africans, more than
modern Europeans.. Nor does the picture
get any clearer when we move on to the
Cro-Magnons, the presumed ancestors of
modern Europeans. Some were more
like present-day Australians or Africans,
judged by objective anatomical
observations." (Christopher Stringer,
Robin McKie (1998). African Exodus.
Macmillan, p. 162)


Early Europeans, as recently as
6,000-9000 years ago, looked somewhat
like Africans in terms of retained
'tropical' characteristics. Cold adaptation
was to bring about several physical
changes over time from the initial Out of
Africa migrations to Europe. Retained
traces of 'tropical' characteristics,
indicate a "large African role in the
origins of anatomically modern
Europeans." (Holliday and Churchill
2003).


"Body proportions covary with climate,
apparently as the result of climatic
selection. Ontogenetic research and
migrant studies have demonstrated that
body proportions are largely genetically
controlled and are under low selective
rates; thus studies of body form can
provide evidence for evolutionarily
short-term dispersals and/or gene flow.
Replacement predicts that the earliest
modern Europeans will possess
"tropical" body proportions (assuming
Africa is the center of origin), while
Regional Continuity permits only minor
shifts in body shape, due to climatic
change and/or improved cultural
buffering. .. results refute the hypothesis
of local continuity in Europe, and are
consistent with an interpretation of
elevated gene flow (and population
dispersal?) from Africa, followed by
subsequent climatic adaptation to colder
conditions." (Holliday, Trenton (1997)
Body proportions in Late Pleistocene
Europe and modern human origins.
Journal of Human Evolution, Volume
32, Issue 5, 1997, Pages 423-447)


".. while the Late Upper Paleolithic and
Mesolithic humans have significantly
higher (i.e., tropically-adapted) brachial
and crural indices than do recent
Europeans, they also have shorter (i.e.,
cold-adapted) limbs. The somewhat
paradoxical retention of "tropical"
indices in the context of more
"cold-adapted" limb length is best
explained as evidence for Replacement
in the European Late Pleistocene,
followed by gradual cold adaptation in
glacial Europe." (Holliday, Trenton
(1999) Brachial and crural indices of
European Late Upper Paleolithic and
Mesolithic humans. Journal of Human
Evolution. Volume 36, Issue 5, May
1999, Pages 549-566)


"Stature, body mass, and body
proportions are evaluated for the
Cheddar Man (Gough's Cave 1)
skeleton. Like many of his Mesolithic
contemporaries, Gough's Cave 1 evinces
relatively short estimated stature (ca.
166.2 cm [5' 5']) and low body mass (ca.
66 kg [146 lbs]). In body shape, he is
similar to recent Europeans for most
proportional indices. He differs,
however, from most recent Europeans in
his high crural index and tibial
length/trunk height indices. Thus, while
Gough's Cave 1 is characterized by a
total morphological pattern considered
'cold-adapted', these latter two traits may
be interpreted as evidence of a large
African role in the origins of
anatomically modern Europeans."
(TRENTON W. HOLLIDAY a1 and
STEVEN E. CHURCHILL. (2003).
Gough's Cave 1 (Somerset, England): an
assessment of body size and shape,
Bulletin of the Natural History Museum:
Geology, 58:37-44 Cambridge
University Press)


More data showing early Europeans
were tropically adapted types like
Africans

"Body proportions are under strong
climatic selection and evince remarkable
stability within regional lineages. As
such, they offer a viable and robust
alternative to cranio-facial data in
assessing hypothesised continuity and
replacement with the transition to
agro-pastoralism in central Europe.
Humero-clavicular, brachial and crural
indices in a large sample (n=75) of
Linienbandkeramik (LBK), Late
Neolithic and Early Bronze Age
specimens from the middle
Elbe-Saale-Werra valley (MESV) were
compared with Eurasian and African
terminal Pleistocene, European
Mesolithic and geographically disparate
recent human specimens. Mesolithic
Europeans display considerable variation
in humero-clavicular and brachial
indices yet none approach the extreme
"hyper-polar" morphology of LBK
humans from the MESV. In contrast,
Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age
peoples display elongated brachial and
crural indices reminiscent of terminal
Pleistocene and "tropically adapted"
recent humans. These marked
morphological changes likely reflect
exogenous immigration during the
terminal Fourth millennium cal BC.
Population expansion and diffusion is a
function of increased mobility and
settlement dispersal concomitant with
significant technological and subsistence
changes in later Neolithic societies
during the late fourth millennium cal
BCE."
-- Gallagher et al. "Population
continuity, demic diffusion and Neolithic
origins in central-southern Germany: the
evidence from body proportions." Homo.
2009;60(2):95-126. Epub 2009 Mar 4.

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Archaeological Evidence Shows some
Meriotic Influence may have ranged down
into Central Africa. The move of the Sahara
southward obscures cultures once farther north- Quote:


"Further south in Roseires area,
Chattaway reported a number of sites,
which might be of interest to this
question after the exploration
(Chattaway 1930: 259-264).. The most
recent discoveries of datable sites and
objects south of Khartoum suggest the
presence of Napatans and Meroites along
the Blue and White Niles, probably
south of Kosti (Eisa 1987: 155-162;
1990). Such presence is also attested by
the discoveries of the Wellcome
Expeditions to the Sennar area (Gebel
Moya, Abu Geili village and recently the
objects found near Grisly village), and
by the site and objects of El Getina (site
of Mahmoud El Araki). The study of
those objects as well as pottery sherds
and bricks showed the strong probability
of their Napatan and Meroitic affinities.
Some other sites between El Getaina and
El Kawa could be identified (Ni'ma,
Wad el Zaki, Hashaba.. etc).

Near the town of El Kawa we have the
site of Hilat Said, where golden objects
were found which date most probably to
the Napatan period (the inscription says:
Imn-r df nh mj r - "God Amun Re gives
life like Re', which seems to be a
life-scarab) (Eisa 1994). Another scarab
was found in Kosti town which may be
of the same data as that of Kawa (Arkell
1961: 136-7). South of Kosti the
investigations of Else Kleppe showed the
presence of archaeological material o a
different nature (of probably Meroitic
date) (in El Rank area, Upper Nile
province; Kleppe 1982a; 1982) as well
as in the western Sudan.. So it seems
that the White Nile was the route of
penetration of the Kushites to these
southern regions and the interior of
Central Africa."

--Steffen Wenig (1992). Studien zum
antiken Sudan. Akten der Internationalen
Tagung für meroitische Forschungen
vom 14. bis 19. 367-368- September
1992 . IN: Meroitica, v15, 1999

 -

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TO ENHANCE DISTRIBUTION AND RESEARCH, HERE ARE THE LINKS TO EACH ARTICLE MADE CLICKABLE

escholarship.org/uc/search?entity=nelc_uee;startDoc=1

---------------------------------------------
UCLA Encyclopedia of Egyptology
------------------------------------------------

http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0r77f2f8,escholarship.org,Saddle-Billed Stork (Ba-Bird)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4zz9t461,escholarship.org,Prehistoric Regional Cultures
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1hb1s3pn,escholarship.org,Dynasties 2 and 3
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9988b193,escholarship.org,Late Fourth Millennium BCE
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1sd2j49d,escholarship.org,Wadi el-Hol
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/6x587846,escholarship.org,Music and Musicians
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2j11p1r7,escholarship.org,Gebelein
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3h92j4bj,escholarship.org,Karnak: the Temple of Amun-Ra-Who-Hears-Prayers
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3gk7274p,escholarship.org,Late Middle Kingdom
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4xk4h68c,escholarship.org,Ornamental Stones
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7255p86v,escholarship.org,Akh
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9m96g9sb,escholarship.org,Northern Bald Ibis (Akh-Bird)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3945t7f7,escholarship.org,Travel
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2zg136m8,escholarship.org,Late Dynastic Period
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/30h78901,escholarship.org,Inheritance
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/75p1n928,escholarship.org,Edfu
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0cc615kx,escholarship.org,Land Donations
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/833528zm,escholarship.org,Egypt and Greece Before Alexander
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7qf6v8wr,escholarship.org,Late Second Intermediate Period to Early New Kingdom
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/68f6w5gw,escholarship.org,Marriage and Divorce
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0rb1k58f,escholarship.org,Linguistic consciousness
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/31v360n5,escholarship.org,Boats (Use of)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3xq6b093,escholarship.org,Transportation
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7t12z11t,escholarship.org,Personal Names: Function and Significance
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/42v9x6xp,escholarship.org,Personal Names: Structures and Patterns
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/5hc3t8dh,escholarship.org,"Shenhur, Temple of"
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/79m150qt,escholarship.org,Jmjwt
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/5xm3202h,escholarship.org,Qau el-Kebir
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3fd124g0,escholarship.org,Building Stones
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/57f2d2sk,escholarship.org,Gemstones
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/77t294df,escholarship.org,Utilitarian Stones
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1nr1d3s9,escholarship.org,Land Tenure (to the End of the Ptolemaic Period)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1456t8bn,escholarship.org,Philae
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2x73c8bz,escholarship.org,Gebel el-Silsila
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4136j3s7,escholarship.org,Law Courts
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0mr4h4fv,escholarship.org,Law: Definitions and Codification
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/8mx2073f,escholarship.org,Slavery and Servitude
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/6cx744kk,escholarship.org,Shabtis
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/99j1g8zh,escholarship.org,Deir el-Gabrawi
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2bn8c9gz,escholarship.org,Households
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2sx1v5nh,escholarship.org,Coptos
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/32r9x0jr,escholarship.org,Ethnicity
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1k3663r3,escholarship.org,Harem
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2xj8c3qg,escholarship.org,Thoth
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9ct397mm,escholarship.org,"Epithets, Divine"
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4983w678,escholarship.org,Mud-Brick Architecture
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/6k78t4w9,escholarship.org,Esna
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2018g2c8,escholarship.org,Esna-North
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9p13z2vp,escholarship.org,Taxation
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/8xj4k0ww,escholarship.org,Birth House (Mammisi)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/8xc7k559,escholarship.org,Throne
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0n21d4bm,escholarship.org,Amarna Art
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4pc0w4hg,escholarship.org,El-Mo?alla to El-Deir
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/8tf3j2qq,escholarship.org,Cosmogony (Late to Ptolemaic and Roman Periods)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1q346284,escholarship.org,Karnak: Settlements
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4fs1k0w9,escholarship.org,Village
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2w17t0cw,escholarship.org,"Glass Working, Use and Discard"
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3f23c0q9,escholarship.org,Block Statue
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3rv0t4np,escholarship.org,Sex and Gender
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/6kt9m29r,escholarship.org,Deir el-Medina (Development)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7tr1814c,escholarship.org,Foreign Deities in Egypt
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9bb918sd,escholarship.org,Quarrying and Mining (Stone)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7426178c,escholarship.org,Painted Funerary Portraits
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2vp6065d,escholarship.org,Reuse and Restoration
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/5gj996k5,escholarship.org,Usurpation of Monuments
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9cf2v6q3,escholarship.org,Child Deities
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4739r3fr,escholarship.org,Opet Festival
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2vh551hn,escholarship.org,Myth of the Heavenly Cow
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1r32g9zn,escholarship.org,Funerary Rituals (Pharaonic Period)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/55b9t6d7,escholarship.org,Hiw (Predynastic)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7pb3h0h1,escholarship.org,Stone Tool Production
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0gn7x3ff,escholarship.org,Mummification
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3tn7q1pf,escholarship.org,Archaism
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9370v0rz,escholarship.org,Portrait versus Ideal Image
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1026h44g,escholarship.org,Education and Apprenticeship
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/51b2647c,escholarship.org,Patterns of Royal Name-giving
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1r72q9vv,escholarship.org,Demons (benevolent and malevolent)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1gh1q0md,escholarship.org,"Recitation, Speech Acts, and Declamation"
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/47x6w6m0,escholarship.org,Kilns and Firing Structures
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7gh1n151,escholarship.org,Liquids in Temple Ritual
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/8f21r7sj,escholarship.org,The Body
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1n10x347,escholarship.org,Funerary rituals (Ptolemaic and Roman Periods)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/5t48n007,escholarship.org,Shrine
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3g726122,escholarship.org,Cartouche
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1f28q08h,escholarship.org,Karnak: Development of the Temple of Amun-Ra
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4737m1mb,escholarship.org,Feathers
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3kk97509,escholarship.org,Deified Humans
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7zh1g7ch,escholarship.org,Kinship and Family Relations
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4cd7q9mn,escholarship.org,Temple Festivals of the Ptolemaic and Roman Periods
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/6wk541n0,escholarship.org,Rituals Related to Animal Cults
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7v84d6rh,escholarship.org,Mud-Brick
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/6tv88003,escholarship.org,Drama
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2t01s4qj,escholarship.org,Economy
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/65m484sn,escholarship.org,Wooden Statuary
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4qx7k7pz,escholarship.org,Rock Art
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/5n53q5fc,escholarship.org,Papyrus Manufacture
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0pb1r0w3,escholarship.org,Perfume
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/5142h0db,escholarship.org,Dance
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9cs9x41z,escholarship.org,Faience Technology
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1nq7k84p,escholarship.org,Pottery Production
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0tm87064,escholarship.org,Ostrich Eggshell
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7kp4n7rk,escholarship.org,Votive Practices
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3416c82m,escholarship.org,Queen

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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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While the CRANID anthro reference database is skewed towards Northern Egypt
and downplays the south (Kemp 2005), some forensic analyses of mummies
indicates membership in the "Egyptian" group- with the next closest match
being African.

--QUOTE:

"A mummy of an Egyptian priestess dating from the 22nd dynasty (c. 770 BC),
completely enclosed in an anthropoid (human shaped) coffin, was scanned
on a CT scanner. An accurate reconstruction of the cranium was generated
from 115 × 2 mm CT images using AVS/Express on a SGI computer. Linear
measurements were obtained from six orthogonal cranial views and used
in a morphometric analysis software package (CRANID). The analyses
carried out were both linear and nearest neighbour discriminant analysis.
The results show that there is a 52.9% probability that the mummy is an
Egyptian female, with a 24.5% probability that the mummy is an African female."

--Hughes, Wright, and Barry (2005)Virtual reconstruction and morphological
analysis of the cranium of an ancient Egyptian mummy. Australas. Phys. Eng. Sci. Med.
Vol. 28, No 2, 2005

----------------------------------------------------------------


Egyptologist Barry Kemp on the
worldwide CRANID database that used
northern samples near the Mediterranean
as "representative" of the ancient
Egyptians, and classifying them in a
"European" direction, while excluding
key historic sites further south..


"If, on the other hand, CRANID had
used one of the Elephantine populations
of the same period, the geographic
association would be much more with the
African groups to the south. It is
dangerous to take one set of skeletons
and use them to characterize the
population of the whole of Egypt."
(Barry Kemp, Ancient Egypt Anatomy of
a Civilisation, Routledge: 2005, p. 55)

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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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DNA analysis of ancient mummies at Dakleh Oasis shows some affinities with sub-Saharan
African populations stretching back in antiquity.

QUOTE:

"A compelling story of life at the ancient Roman-Christian town of Kellis (circa AD 300) in the Dakhleh
Oasis, Egypt, is developing through mitochondrial analyses of ancient DNA. Through excavations at
Kellis 2, the Roman-Christian period necropolis where the ancient inhabitants of Kellis are interred, a
fascinating genetic profile of the residents of classical Kellis is beginning to emerge. Interestingly, metric
and non-metric trait analyses of 310 burials suggests a local population in residence at Kellis changing
slowly over time through antiquity; however, archaeological evidence alludes to frequent trade with the
Nile River valley, suggesting population movement into, through, and out of the oasis during this period.
Moreover, social and political conditions throughout the Roman Empire, of which Egypt was a possession
during this interval, hint at substantial population movements, possibly involving the oasis. Indeed,
preliminary sequencing data of HV-1 suggests a genetically diverse population from a maternal
perspective. Moreover, specific point mutations, in the small number of individuals analyzed to date
(n=13), hint at potential maternal associations with sub-Saharan Africa in antiquity...

This strongly suggests legitimate results as opposed to false substitutions resulting from incorrect
copying of ancient DNA template (Paabo et al 1990). The C to T Transition at position 16278
appears exclusively in burials 16 and 76. In addition, burials 2 and 6 appear dentical but are
dissimilar at HV1 site outside of the area shown inTable I. Burials 15, 31 and 139 display a solitary
C to T alteration at position 16233. This particular substitution is present in many African populations
at appreciable frequencies.."

-- Parr, R. L. 2002. Mitochondrial DNA sequence analysis of skeletal remains from the Kellis 2 cemetery.
In C. A.Hope and G. E. Bowen (eds.) Dakhleh Oasis Project: Preliminary Reports on the 1994-1995 to
1998-1999 Field Seasons 257-261

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ELIMU
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quote:
Ancient Egyptian language is part of
the Afrasian or Afroasiatic group which
has its origins in Africa, and together
with other archaeological evidence firmly
makes it an African culture. Acording to
mainstream research:

QUOTE(s):

This lie has got to stop,the ancient egyptian hieroglyphic was south-nilotic(proto-kalenjin),demotic and meroitic was proto-bantu(meru),Hieratic was volta-congo(yoruba).

somali and oromo are basically mixture of kalenjin and semitic languages.
e.g oromo,somali and kalenjin call rain ROP,call palm tree SOSIOT,all have kalenjin ssrnames like KOROS,TALAM,SALAT e.t.c.all have feminine gender prefix t,all these languages use kalenjin upper numerals,BUT somali and oromo are afro-asiatic cushitic because they elements of semitic.NOTE;there is no element of semitic or indo-european in ancient egyptian.

afro-asiatic urheimat is accad and sumeria.these populations esp cushitic and ethiopian semitic entered africa via the horn of africa and yemen route,chadic entered africa by sea via libya and cathage,phoenician mixed with bantu and nilotic produced amazigh.

YES fleeing negroes is a fact,yes negroes fled the north of africa,they fled from constant war(assyrian,babylonian,greek,roman,arab invasions) and famine

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by LEDAMA:
quote:
Ancient Egyptian language is part of
the Afrasian or Afroasiatic group which
has its origins in Africa, and together
with other archaeological evidence firmly
makes it an African culture. Acording to
mainstream research:

QUOTE(s):

This lie has got to stop,the ancient egyptian hieroglyphic was south-nilotic(proto-kalenjin),demotic and meroitic was proto-bantu(meru),Hieratic was volta-congo(yoruba).

somali and oromo are basically mixture of kalenjin and semitic languages.
e.g oromo,somali and kalenjin call rain ROP,call palm tree SOSIOT,all have kalenjin ssrnames like KOROS,TALAM,SALAT e.t.c.all have feminine gender prefix t,all these languages use kalenjin upper numerals,BUT somali and oromo are afro-asiatic cushitic because they elements of semitic.NOTE;there is no element of semitic or indo-european in ancient egyptian.

afro-asiatic urheimat is accad and sumeria.these populations esp cushitic and ethiopian semitic entered africa via the horn of africa and yemen route,chadic entered africa by sea via libya and cathage,phoenician mixed with bantu and nilotic produced amazigh.

YES fleeing negroes is a fact,yes negroes fled the north of africa,they fled from constant war(assyrian,babylonian,greek,roman,arab invasions) and famine

I disagree. There is no such thing as Afro-Asiatic. Egyptian was a lingua franca invenbted to unite the various nationalities that made up ancient Egypt.

The Akkadian and Geez languages are related. The Akkadians migrated from Africa into Mesopotamia where they defeated the Sumerians who were Kushites. The Sumerian language is related to the Dravidian-Niger-Congo group.

The Kalenjin are no more related to the Egyptians, then the Wolof, Mande and Bantu. All of these languages are related to Egyptian because Egyptian was a lingua franca that included many linguistic elements and shared vocabulary items from the diverse Ethnic groups that made up ancient Egypt.

The Semitic languages are African languages as well. At the base of most Semitic languages you find an African root. Hebrew , due to interactions with the People of the Sea, Gutians and other Turkic and Indo-European speakers does have elements of I-E origin.

.

.

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Clyde Winters
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 -

 -


LEDAMA , Obenga has made it clear that AfroAsiatic does not exist and you can not reconstruct the Proto-language.

This is true. Ehret (1995) and Orel/Stolbova (1995) were attempts at comparing Proto-AfroAsiatic. The most interesting fact about these works is that they produced different results. If AfroAsiatic existed they should have arrived at similar results. The major failur of these works is that there is too much synononymy. For example, the Proto-AfroAsiatic synonym for bird has 52 synonyms this is far too many for a single term and illustrates how the researchers just correlated a number of languages to produce a proto-form.

This supports Obenga's view that you can not reconstruct Afro-Asiatic. It is assumed that if languages are related you should be able to reconstruct the proto-language of the language family.
.

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 -

LEDAMA the Sumerians were Kushites. They were Black people.

Henry Rawlinson used the Book of Genesis to find the identity of the Mesopotamia. He made it clear that the original inhabitants of Babylonia were represented by the name Nimrod and were represented by the family of Ham: Kushites, Egyptians and etc. This name came from the popularity among these people of hunting the leopard (Nimri). And as noted in earlier post the Egyptian and Nubian rulers always associated leopard spots with royalty, just as Siva is associated with the feline. As a result, Rawlinson used an African language Galla, to decipher the cuneiform writing.

The Sumerians and Elamites came from Africa, like the founders of the Indus Valley civilization. This is why the Elamite and Sumerian languages are closely related to African and Dravidian languages.

The Kushites when they migrated from Middle Africa to Asia continued to call themselves Kushites. This is most evident in place names and the names of gods. The Kassites, chief rulers of Iran occupied the central part of the Zagros. The Kassite god was called Kashshu, which was also the name of the people. The K-S-H, name element is also found in India. For example Kishkinthai, was the name applied to an ancient Dravidian kingdom in South India. Also it should be remembered that the Kings of Sumer, were often referred to as the " Kings of Kush".

The major Kushite tribe in Central Asia was called Kushana. The Kushan of China were styled Ta Yueh-ti or "the Great Lunar Race". Along the Salt Swamp, there was a state called Ku-Shih of Tibet. The city of K-san, was situated in the direction of Kushan, which was located in the Western part of the Gansu Province of China.

 -


The Elamites later conquered Sumer. They called this line of Kings,he "King of Kish'.
This term has affinity to the term Kush,that was given to the Kerma dynasty, founded by the C-Group people of Kush. It is interesting to note that the Elamite language, is closely related to the African languages including Egyptian and the Dravidian languages of India.

The most important Kushite colony in Iran was ancient Elam. The Elamites called their country KHATAM or KHALTAM (Ka-taam). The capital of Khaltam which we call Susa, was called KHUZ (Ka-u-uz) by the Aryans, NIME (Ni-may) by the people of Sumer, and KUSHSHI (Cush-she) by the Elamites.In the Akkadian inscriptions the Elamites were called GIZ-BAM (the land of the bow). The ancient Chinese or Bak tribesmen which dominate China today called the Elamites KASHTI. Moreover, in the Bible the Book of Jeremiah (xlxx,35), we read "bow of Elam". It is interesting to note that both Khaltam-ti and Kashti as the name for Elam, agrees with Ta-Seti, the ancient name for Nubia located in the Meroitic Sudan.

.

 -

There is textual evidence supporting a relationship between the founders of Sumer, Elam and Dilmun. Col. Henry Rawlinson , used textual evidence to determine that a link existed between the Mesopotamians to their ancestors in Africa . Rawlinson called these people Kushites.

There is a positive relationship between crania from Africa and Eurasia. The archaeologist Marcel-Auguste Dieulafoy (Dieulafoy,2004) and Hanberry (1981) maintains that their was a Sub-Saharan strain in Persia . These researchers maintain that it was evident that an Ethiopian dynasty ruled Elam from a perusal of its statuary of the royal family and members of the army ( Dieulafoy, 2004; Dieulafoy, 2010;Hansberry,1981). Dieulafoy (2010 ) noted that the textual evidence and iconography make it clear that the Elamites were Africans, and part of the Kushite confederation .Dieulafoy (2010) made it clear that the Elamites at Susa were Sub-Saharan Africans.

 -

Marcel Dieulafoy and M. de Quatrefages observed that the craniometrics of the ancient Elamites of Susa indicate that they were Sub-Saharan Africans or Negroes (Dieulafoy,2010).
Ancient Sub-Saharan African skeletons have also been found in Mesopotamia (Tomczyk et al, 2010). The craniometric data indicates that continuity existed between ancient and medieval Sub-Saharan Africans in Mesopotamia (Ricault & Waelkens,2008).


References
Dieulafoy, J. 2004. The Project Gutenberg EBook of Perzi, Chaldea en Susiane, by Jane Dieulafoy. Retrieved 04/04/10
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13901/13901-h/13901-h.htm
Dieulafoy, M.A.2010.. L' Acropole de Suse d'après les fouilles exécutées en 1884, 1885, 1886, sous les auspices du Musée du Louvre. Retrieved 04/04/10 from : http://www.archive.org/stream/lacropoledesused01dieu#page/2/mode/2up

Rawlinson,H. “ Letter read at the meeting of the Royal Asiatic Society on February 5, 1853”, The Athenaeum, (No. 1321) ,p.228.

Rawlinson,H. “Note on the early History of Babylonia”, Journal Royal Asiatic Soc., 15, 215-259.

Ricaut,F.X. and Waelkens.2008. Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzatine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements, Hum Biol, 80(5):535-564.

Tomczyk,J., Jedrychowska-Danska, K., Ploszaj,T & Witas H.W. (2010). Anthropological analysis of the osteological material from an ancient tomb (Early Bronze Age) from the middle Euphrates valley, Terqa (Syria) , International Journal of Osteoarchaeology, Retrieved 04/04/10 from (www.interscience.wiley.com)DOI:10.1002/oa.1150
.

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LEDAMA the Meroitic language is not a Bantu language. Meroitic is related to the Niger-Congo group but it was a lingua franca. They invented this language because the Meroitic Empire was a confederation made up of various African Nationalities.

My decipherment of Meroitic is based on the Kushana theory.The Kushana theory is that a group of “East Indian” scholars introduced the Meroitic writing system to the Meroites. The Kushana hypothesis was based on the following evidence:

1) no African language has been found to be a cognate language of Meroitic

2) the Classical literature says that the Kushites lived in Asia and Africa;

3) the Gymnosophists, or "naked sages" of Meroe came from India.

Before I began work on Meroitic, other researchers had already falsified the African theory for Meroitic's cognate language. Meroitic is not related to languages spoken in this area. Griffith and Haycock tried to read Meroitic using Nubian and failed. K.H. Priese tried to read the Meroitic text using Eastern Sudani; he also failed.The fact that not even Nubian, a language spoken by a people who were engaged in constantly conflict with the Meroites , failed to be the cognate language of Meroitic made it clear that we must look elsewhere for the cognate language spoken by the Meroites.

The evidence presented above provides internal and external validity for my theory based upon the sources I have cited previously. The sources I have used are impartial, to disconfirm my hypothesis someone needs to show that my propositions are not fully informed. They must prove that:

1. there were no Indians North Africa and Kush when the Classical writers maintained they were] and present rival explanations based on the evidence.

The fact that the claims made by the Classical writers is supported by the Indians themselves isstrong confirmation of the Kushana hypothesis. This hypothesis based on the classical literature, was enough to support the original Kushana Hypothesis.

The predicting power of the original theory: the Gymnosophist introduced Meroitic to the Kushites due to the influence of Buddhism in Meroe, matches the observed natural phenomena which was confirmed elsewhere by cognate place names, ethononyms, lexical items and grammatical features, indicate that my theory has not be falsified.

The ability to reliably predict a linguistic relationship between Kushana and Meroitic, was further confirmation of the Kushana Hypothesis, because the linguistic connections were deducible from prediction.

I controlled the Kushana Hypothesis by comparing the statements of the classical writers, with historical, linguistic anthropological and toponymic evidence found not only in Africa, but also India and Central Asia [where the people also used Tokharian as a trade language to unify the various people in Central Asia].

I constructed three testable hypotheses in support of the Kushana theory, and it seems only fair that these variables must be disconfirmed, to falsify the Kushana Hypothesis.

Hypothesis 1: If the meroites used a writing system of non-African origin a tradition mentioning this fact will exist. (Hypothesis confirmed. Classical literature mentions Indian scholars in ancient Meroe.)

Hypothesis: 2. If the classical literature mentions Indians who lived in Egypt influencing the Meroites their should be historical evidence relating to this tradition. (Hypothesis confirmed .Classical literature mentions a King who left his country is mentioned in the Jaina text called the Kalakeharya-Kathanaka.)

Hypothesis: 3. If Classical literature is true about the Indian origin of the Gymnosophists Indians will be found living near the Meroites around the time the Meroitic inscriptions appear. (Hypothesis confirmed. Artifacts and coins with Indian inscriptions have been found in Egypt and Ethiopia.) Failure to disconfirm this theorem, implies validity of my prediction.

My confirmation of the above , and

1) the presence of Kushites in Africa and Asia;

2) Asoka sent many Buddhist missionaries to Egypt who wrote their scriptures in Kharosthi and Tocharian;

3) a Blemmya--native to the Meroitic empire, is mentioned in numerous Buddhist Pali text;

4)the presence of Kushana sages in India who may have migrated to Meroe;

5) cognate lexical items;

6)cognate verbs and

7) cognate grammatical features; indicates systematic controlled, critical and empirical investigation of the question of Kushana representing the Meroitic cognate language.

As a result of these facts we can now use Tocharian or Kushana to read the Meroitic text. The historical evidence make it clear that the Meroites were probably not strangers to Kharosthi literacy since the Gymnosophists had been in Upper Egypt and Meroitic Empires hundreds of years.

 -

The evidence is clear Tocharian and Kharosthi was a popular media among Upper Egyptians and Meroites. As a result, it was a nativized Meroitic language spoken by a major group of Meroites.

.

--------------------
C. A. Winters

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:


The Akkadian and Geez languages are related. The Akkadians migrated from Africa into Mesopotamia where they defeated the Sumerians who were Kushites.

quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

Rawlinson identified these Akkadians as Turanian or Scythic people. But he made it clear that these ancient Scythic or Turanian speaking people were Kushites or Blacks.



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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:


The Akkadian and Geez languages are related. The Akkadians migrated from Africa into Mesopotamia where they defeated the Sumerians who were Kushites.

quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

Rawlinson identified these Akkadians as Turanian or Scythic people. But he made it clear that these ancient Scythic or Turanian speaking people were Kushites or Blacks.



So lioness, you are saying this is contradictory?
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Cldye will resolve the matter
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quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:


The Akkadian and Geez languages are related. The Akkadians migrated from Africa into Mesopotamia where they defeated the Sumerians who were Kushites.

quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

Rawlinson identified these Akkadians as Turanian or Scythic people. But he made it clear that these ancient Scythic or Turanian speaking people were Kushites or Blacks.



So lioness, you are saying this is contradictory?
Rawlinson othen refrred to the Sumerians as Akkadians . The Kushites in Asia were called Scythic and Turanian. The original Scythic people were not Indo-Europeans. See: C.B. Rawlinson, "Notes on the early history of Babylon", Jour. Royal Asiatic
Society (First Series) 15, p.230

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LEDAMA, quoting Beyoku is not helping your case.
Do you even know what the Bantu migrration is? You assert:

hyksos were forced out of egypt by Amasis,they didn't assimilate,except ta-meru,ta-seti and ta-netjer.the rest were forced out, triggering first bantu migration to kush and west africa.

Aside from a mass of other ludricrous assertions, you like an assortment
of 'Afro-enthusiasts', advance the dubious "Fleeing Negroes" model, in
which West Africa gets civilization of "Bantus" migrate cuz Hyksos, or
assorted Asiatics invade or conquer Egypt. This "Fleeing Negroes" notion,
has been debunked again and again, yet you keep merely asserting it
like an article of religious faith. Maybe it is... ANd since when do "Bantu"
"flee" to Kush or West Africa cuz Hyskos showed up in Egypt?

I again ask, what's taking you so long in providing
credible scholarly proof regarding the negroes who
"flee" Egypt, to trigger the first Bantu migration in Africa?
Don't quote Beyoku or web links saying "it is so."
Anybody can assert anything. Where is credible evidence?


the kalenjin were responsible for unifying egypt for MENES aka NERMER was a kalenjin,the kalenjin ruled mostly the 3rd,18th and 26th dynasty of egypt because most rulers of these dynaties had kalenjin names,also the culture of these dynasties were influenced by the kalenjin.

Where is credible scholarly proof that this is so?
How did the 3rd, 18th or 25th (and later you add the 26th)
Dynasty become "Kanenjin"? You are still ducking and
dodging providing credible data from the other thread.
What's taking you so long?

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

The Akkadian and Geez languages are related. The Akkadians migrated from Africa into Mesopotamia where they defeated the Sumerians who were Kushites.

quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

Rawlinson identified these Akkadians as Turanian or Scythic people. But he made it clear that these ancient Scythic or Turanian speaking people were Kushites or Blacks.

Rawlinson often referred to the Sumerians as Akkadians . The Kushites in Asia were called Scythic and Turanian. The original Scythic people were not Indo-Europeans. See: C.B. Rawlinson, "Notes on the early history of Babylon", Jour. Royal Asiatic
Society (First Series) 15, p.230

Babylon
1894 BC-141 BC

was originally a Semitic Akkadian city dating from the period of the Akkadian Empire c. 2300 BC.
Originally a minor administrative center, it only became an independent city-state in 1894 BC in the hands of a migrant Amorite dynasty not native to ancient Mesopotamia. The Babylonians were more often ruled by other foreign migrant dynasties throughout their history, such as by the Kassites, Arameans, Elamites and Chaldeans, as well as by their fellow Mesopotamians, the Assyrians.

Under Nabopolassar, a Chaldean king, Babylon eventually threw off Assyrian rule, and in an alliance with Cyaxares, king of the Medes and Persians together with the Scythians and Cimmerians, the Assyrian Empire was finally destroyed between 612 BC and 605 BC.


___________________________
 -
C.B. Rawlinson

But Clyde wasn't the Royal Asiatic Society a 19th century white colonial British Eurocentic Hamitic theory promoting organization? (still operating today also)
How can you use them as sources?

Anyway...


quote:


"[7.70] The eastern Ethiopians -
for two nations of this name served in the army - were marshalled with the Indians.
They differed in nothing
from the other Ethiopians,
save in their language, and the character of their hair.
For the eastern Ethiopians have straight hair,
while they of Libya are more woolly-haired than any other people in the world."

--Herodotus, The Persian Wars 450s - 420s BC


.


quote:


“a numerous colony of people emigrated from the banks of the Indus, and crossing the ocean, fixed their residence in the country now called Ethiopia."

Eusebius 260/265 – 339/340 AD


.


quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
 -



Clyde could the Scythians be straight haired black people?
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LEDAMA the Semitic speakers are of African origin. The origin of the Semitic speakers is very important. The archaeological and textual evidence make it clear that Mesopotamia was the not homeland of the Semitic speakers. This evidence make it clear that the first settlers of this area spoke Sumerian and Ubadian, not Semitic.

The first Semites to leave textual evidence are the Akkadians. The Akkadians and the Ethio-Semitic languages have shared archaism. This feature indicates the ancient morphology and grammar of a Semitic language. We can infer that if this was the norm for the most ancient form of Semitic, other Semitic languages possessing this character probably are closely related to the original spoken/written Semitic language. We can further infer that since Ethio-Semitic, possesses these linguistic characteristics, and other Semitic languages such as Hebrew and Arabic do not, the later languages must be relatively young in age.


The historical evidence support an old presence of Ethio-Semitic in Africa. For example, the Axumite Empire was founded by the Habashan. the habashan are mentioned in a 3rd or 4th century Himyarite inscription from South Arabia, which refers to an alliance between Gadarat King of the Habashan or Habashat.

Some of the people of Punt were probably Tigrinya speakers, who call their language habesha, i.e., Abyssinian par excellence. The term Habesh, seems to represent an old name for Abyssinia and may be connected with the Amharic word washa 'cave or cavern', and may refer to the" cave dwellers" who once served as the principal traders along the Ethiopian coast. The ability of the Ethiopians as sailors, is supported by the title bahr nagash, "ruler of the maritime province" or Eritrea.

In addition, some of the earliest Sabean/Thamudic inscriptions have been found in Ethiopia, and not South Arabia. For example, Dr. Doresse has found Sabean cursive writing on a sceptre that indicates that the Habashat/Axumite empire had writing.

These Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions of the 18th Dynasty (1709-1320) in connection to the land of Punt. Given the Egyptian association of the Habashan with Punt, I call the speakers of the Ethio-Semitic languages: Puntites. We have Egyptian evidence of trade missions to Punt as early as PepiII in 2400 BC and Mentuholep IV and IV. The vizier Amenemhat, of Mentuholep IV is said to have established a port near Safaga. the most famous mission to Punt was sent by Queen Hatshepsut, and is recorded at deir el Bahri. Since the Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian documents they were in existence long before the Arabic speakers.
Even the Semitic speakers of Africa did not originate in East or Northeast Africa. Up until the 6th Dynasty of Egypt, the Semitic speakers lived in Nubia as cattle herders.

 -

The Semitic speakers or Puntites did not live originally in Northeast Africa. They were part of the C-Group Confederacy which included during the reigns of Merenre and Pepi II (according to the account of Herkhuf), Irtjet, Zatju and Wawat. In 2300 BC, the Egyptians forced the Puntites out of Nubia into Northeast Africa. Some of these Puntites migrated across Arabia into Mesopotamia . In Mesopotamia they were called Akkadians. The Akkadians defeated the Sumerians and spread the Semitic language into the Middle East.

The C-Group people spoke Niger-congo languages. This ould explain why Diop discovered that at the base of each semetic word we find a Black African, Niger-Congo root.
]  -

This statement was made by Diop in his book The Cultural Unity of Black Africa. See page 113.


 -

.
The evidence of shared archaism for Akkadian and Ethio-Semitic indicate that the speakers of these languages probably shared many linguistic features when they separated. It also suggest that thespeakers of these languages probably separated in Africa, since the Ethio-Semitic speakers have long been established in their present home, as supported by the Egyptian inscriptions. The Ethio-Semitic speakers have maintained these features due to the relative stability of these languages. You can find out more about the stability of African languages in my article "Linguistic Continuity and African and Dravidian languages", International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, 23 (2), (1996) 34-52. We must conclude that the Semitic languages originated in Africa.
The Semitic languages are divided into four groups: North-east Semitic, Northwest Semitic, Southeast
Semitic and Southwest Semitic. The Ethiopian Semitic languages belong to the Southeast Semitic subgroup.
In ancient times modern Ethiopia and Somalia was called Punt. As a result I call the Semitic languages
of Ethiopia: Puntite languages. In the Sumerian texts these Puntites may have been called Meluhhaites.

The Puntites lived in the Eastern desert of Egypt and Arabia for many years and on the Horn of Africa.
The earliest representatives of this group are depicted on the Ivory label of King Dan (Udimu) of the
first Dynasty of Kemit.

During the neolithic subpluvial the Red Sea area recieved more rainfall. This area was blanketed with
vegetation and the people grew ensete, barley and dates. They also grazed sheep, goats and cattle.
Arabia at this time was a vast savannah with marshes and lakes. What is now known as the Rub
al-Khali or Empty Quarter, today, an arid mountainous area, was then well watered.

The Cushitic speaking people of Ethiopia also appear to have had some representatives in Arabia during this period .The people of Punt lived in an area stretching from the Eastern desert of Egypt, eastward to the Red Sea, and Central Africa.These people spoke Puntite/ Semitic languages.

This group of Africoids lived in the Eastern Desert and the Red Sea Hills. Whereas most Africans are clean shaven the Puntites preferred to wear beards. The boats of these Easterners are found engraved at prehistoric sites in Mesopotamia. In the Egyptian records the standard of the Easterners was the Set animal.

The Egyptian traditions tell us that there was a struggle between Set and Horus which took place in Nubia. This story indicates that in ancient times Semitic-speaking people formerly lived in Nubia; this explains the Egyptian identification of Punt or Pwene as "the land of the gods". (Ullendorf 1973) The Egyptians called the people of Punt Kenbetu.

In the ancient literature of Kemit (Egypt) and Mesopotamia, Punt was recognized as a sea power. From
ports along the Red Sea, the people of Punt traded with of Kemit, Arabia, West Asia and Mesopotamia.
Modern Ethiopia is part of the land known to the Egyptians "the lands of the gods". The inhabitants of
Punt, on the other hand called their country Arwe. It was from here that the Semitic speaking nations moved northward into Arabia and Mesopotamia. The Kemites allude to the Arwe Kingdom in a short story which tells how a good natured serpent of great size speaks to a ship wrecked Egyptian whose life he saved:

"I am the Prince of Punt...But it shall happen
when[thou] art parted from this place ,that never shalt
thou behold this island more, for it will become water...."(Doresse 1971, p.17)

This "good natured serpent" may refer to the King-Serpent that ruled Punt according to Ethiopian
traditions.

The ships of Punt were very large, as early as 2500 B.C., they had ships with 60 oars. In the records
of Sumer-Akkad there are frequent passages referring to the large boats of Punt, which they called Meluhha . The ships of Meluhha made many voyages to Mesopotamia.


Meluhha, included the area from Nubia eastward to the coast of the Red Sea. This view is supported by
the discovery of C-Group pottery usually associated with Nubia, found in excavated sites in Eritrea.
(Zayed 1981, p.142)

The Meluhhaites were known as the "black men" to the Sumerians .The Akkadians called them "the
Meluhhaites, the men of the Black land". They sold many products including metals and precious stones to the people of Mesopotamia.(Kramer 1978, pp. 76-80)
There were many Egyptian contacts with Punt. According to Herodotus, the Kemite Pharoah Sestrotris
carried his conquest as far as the Red Sea, where he erected a stele at Deire. We have evidence of Egyptian expeditions to Punt sent by Pepi II in 2400 B.C.,and Mentuholep IV to bring back rare products from ancient Punt. Under Mentuholep V, the vizier Amenemhet established a port near Safaga to insure regular trade with Punt. The most famous voyage to Punt was undertaken by Queen Hatshepsut (c. 1520-1484), details of her mission are depicted on the walls of her temple at Deir el Bahri. (Gardiner 1978, p.78)


Many ports in modern Ethiopia have been used for millennia. The inscriptions of Tuthmosis III refer to
such places as Outculit, Hamasu and Tekaru; these names suggest the modern Ethiopian cities of Adulis,
Hamasu and Tigre. (Doresse 1971, p.17)


The Egyptians/Kemites made it clear that Punt controlled both sides of the Red Sea. (Budge 1959,
p.53, n.1) In the Kemite inscription the Hymn of Ra, we read "The land of Punt is established [to give] the
perfumes which thou smellest with thy nostrils" (Budge 1959, p.149). Stuart Munro-Hay noted that: "One extremely interesting Egyptian record from an 18th Dynasty tomb at Thebes actually shows Puntite trading boats or rafts with triangular sails ( Save -Soderbergh 1946, p.24) for transporting the products
of Punt, indicating that the commerce was not exclusively Egyptian- carried, and that local Red Sea
peoples were already seafaring...."

In modern Ethiopia there were three great empires Punt-Arwe, the Da'mot or Di'amat Kingdom and Axum. The first kingdom of Ethiopia was founded by the Habesha or Habeshat who were first mentioned in the Egyptian inscriptions of the 18th Dynasty of Egypt, in connection with the Land of Punt.

The Punt empire was made up of people speaking diverse languages. The culture bearers may have been the Tigrinya speakers who call their language Habesha, i.e., Abyssinian par excellence. (Doresse 1971) The term Habesha seems to represent an old name for Abyssinia (the ancient name for modern-day Ethiopia) and may be connected with the Amharic word washa "a cave or cavern".

The Puntite languages are characterized by a basic vocabulary, a system of roots and vowel patterns and
the formation of derived verbs by prefixes. The South Arabian languages: Sabaean, Minaean and Hadramautic, are slightly different from modern South Arabic, but analogous to the Ethiopian languages. This represents the influence of the Jectanid tribes on South Arabic.
It is clear that the Proto-Puntite speakers lived in Africa. Wolf Leslau (1951,1957) has made it clear
that Ethiopic and South Arabic form a dialectical unity. Dialectical unity means that two or more
languages form a unified dialect.


According to Haupt, in 1878, Akkadian , Minaean and Ethiopic all belong to the same group of Semitic
languages, even though they are separated in time and by great geographical distance. This is surprising
considering the fact that Ethiopic and Akkadian are separated by many hundreds of years. The best example of this unity is the presence of shared archaicism (Leslau 1951). The linguistic feature of shared
archaicism is the appearance of the vowel after the first consonant of the imperfect (Hertzron & Bender
1976, p.23).

For example, one of the most outstanding features of Puntite, is the presence of a vowel following the first consonant in the verb form known as the imperfect, e.g., yi quattul (using the hypothetical verb consonants q-t-l, yi is the person marking prefix) or yi k'ett 'he kills'. In Southwest Semitic the form of the perfect is yu qtul-u . Here we have the same hypothetical q-t-l form, but there is no vowel following the first consonant of the verb root. This results from the fact that in Black African languages we rarely, if at all find words formed with double consonants.

The fact that Southeast Semitic has shared archaicism with Puntite shows that at the time the Akkadians and Ethiopic speakers separated these groups had dialectical unity. The lack of this trait in Arabic and Hebrew shows that they have been influenced by the Indo-European speakers who invaded Palestine and Arabia between 1300 B.C. and 900 B.C. Semitic verb root Akkadian Ethiopic/S. Arabian

  • kl 'to be dark' ekelu Soqotri okil
    'to cover'

    mr 'to see' amaru Geez

    ammara;Tigre amara

    br 'to catch' baru Soqotri b'r
    dgh 'remove' daqu Geez dagba 'to
    perforate'
    kdn 'to protect' kidin Tigre kadna

Clearly Black African language forms the base of most Semitic words. Diop (1978,p.113) recognized that
in relation to Arabic words, once the first consonant was suppressed, there is often an African root. This
phenomenon was also recognized by Wiener (1922, v.III) who believed that many African words were of Arabic origin.

The Cushitic substratum has strongly influenced the phonology, morphology, syntax and vocabulary of
the Puntite languages.

  • Cushitic English Semitic
    Saho la wild cow *la-at
    Samoli la id. id.

This supports the view of I.M. Diakonoff that the Semitic speakers and A-Group lived in close proximity
in ancient times. The evidence discussed above makes it clear that Arabia, which was occupied in Neolithic times by the Anu, was probably not the original homeland of the Semitic speakers. Modern Ethiopians originated in Africa, not Arabia.

--------------------
C. A. Winters

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:


[QUOTE]

“a numerous colony of people emigrated from the banks of the Indus, and crossing the ocean, fixed their residence in the country now called Ethiopia."

Eusebius 260/265 – 339/340 AD


.

This is how Buddism came to the Meroitic Empire and Egypt.

Philostratus:The Life of Apollonius of Tyana makes it clear that the Gymnosophist lived in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Empire. The historical evidence makes it clear that there was probably two migrations of Buddhist Gymnosophists to Egypt and the Meroitic Empire.

Asoka was a supporter of Buddhism. Zacharias P. Thundy, in Buddha and Christ make it clear that the edits of Asoka (c.274-236 BC) indicate that this ruler sent missionaries to Egypt to preach the Buddhist Dharma(pp.242-243).

Thundy maintains that archaeological evidence exist for a community of Indian sages living in Memphis as early as 200 BC (p.243).

We know that decendents of these missionaries were still in Egypt over two hundred years later because they were visited by Apollonius of Tyana.

Asoka used Kharosthi to write his edits. The Buddhist also used this writing system to record their scriptures. This means that the Gymnosophists would have had a long tradition of employing Kharosthi to communicate their ideas. The Gymnosophists were probably well respected by the Meroites and some Meroites probably had knowledge of Buddhist teachings and literacy.

Some Meroites may have played an important role in Buddhist because Blemmyae, a prominent group in the Meroitic Sudan are mentioned in Pali text Tipitaka (see:JDM Derrett, (2002) A Blemmya in India, Numen 49:460-474). Dr.Derrett wrote that in early Pali text " we
have a Blemmya (an African) in front rank Buddhist texts of very respectable age (p.465).

The Buddhist text where Blemmya were mentioned are very old. The Vinaya pitaka, is dated to the 4th century B.C.E.

If Blemmya are mentioned in Buddhists text we can be sure that Meroites were not ignorant of Kharosthi. This would explain why many of the Meroitic symbols agree with Kharosthi. They agree because some Meroites were probably already literate in Kharosthi due to the influence of Buddhism in the Meroitic Empire.

.

There seems to have been a second migration of Buddhists to the Meroitic Empire many years after Asoka sent missionaries to Egypt. These migrants came to the Meroitic Empire after their king was murdered.


Flavius Philostratus, the writer of the Vita Apollonii, Vol.1 , claimed that the Gymnosophists of Meroe originally came from India (see F.C. Conybeare, Philostratus:The Life of Apollonius of Tyana(p.45),1950). Given the fact that the Kushana had formerly ruled India around the time that the Meroitic writing was introduced to the Kushite civilization, led to the hypothesis that the ancestors of the Gymnosophist may have been Kushana philosophers.

The historical evidence of the Kushana having ruled India made the Classical references to Indians, the Gymnosophists in Meroe, an important source for the construction of alternative theories about the possible location of the cognate language of Meroitic.

There is external evidence, which supports my theory. A theory explains observed phenomena and has predictive power. I have theorized that due to the claims of the Classical writers that some of the Meroites came from India (F.C Conybeare (Trans.), Philostratus: The life of Apollonius of Tyana Vol.2, (1950) pg.271).

According to the Life of Apollonius, the Indian Meroites were formerly led by a King Ganges, who had "repulsed the Scythians who invaded this land [India from] across the Caucasus" (Conybeare, Vol.1, Pg.273). Pilostratus also made it clear that the Indians of Meroe came to this country after their king was killed.

The presence of this tradition of an Indian King of the Indian-Meroites conquering the Scythians predicts that the Indian literature should record this historical episode. This prediction is supported by a Jaina text called the Kalakeharya-Kathanaka , which reports that when the Scythians invaded Malwa, the King of Malwa, called Vikramaditya defeated the Scythians (H. Kulke & D. Rothermund, History of India(London, Routledge: 1990, pg.73). This king Vikramaditya may be the Ganges mentioned in the Life of Apollonius.Confirmation of the Ganges story,supports the Classical literary evidence that their were Indianized -Meroites that could have introduced the Tocharian trade language to the Meroites.

In addition to the classical mention of the Indians settling Meroë, and Asoka's edit sending missionaries to Egypt, we also have a horde of Kushana coins that were found on the floor of a cave at the present monastery-shine at Debra Demo in modern Ethiopia in 1940. Moreover, there were other Indians in North Africa in addition to Kush/Meroe. For example, at Quseir al-Qadim there was a large Indian speaking community (see: R. Salomon, "Epigraphic remains of Indian traders in Egypt", Journal of the American oriental Society, (1991) pp.731-736; and R. Salomon, Addenda,Journal of the American Oriental Society, (1993) pg.593). These Indians were in Egypt writing messages in their own language, around the time we see a switch from Egyptian hieroglyphics to the Meroitic writing system. All of this supported the traditions of the Meroites that speak of a knowledge of the Kushana/Indians among the Meroites.

The evidence that the Classical references to an Indian-Meroite King who conquered the Scythians is supported by the Indian literature, provides external corroboration of the tradition that some of the Meroites were of Indian origin. The presence of Indian traders and settlers in Meroe (and Egypt), makes it almost impossible to deny the possibility that Indians, familiar with the Tokharian trade languagedid not introduce this writing to the Meroites who needed a neutral language to unify the diverse ethnic groups who made up the Meroite state. In relation to the history of linguistic change and bilingualism, itis a mistake to believe that linguistic transfer had to take place for the Meroites to have used Tokharian, when it did not take place when they wrote in Egyptian hieroglyphics.

In summary the classical literature makes it clear that there was a connection between the Gymnosophists (of Meroe) and the Indians. The fact that historical events mentioned in the classical sources are found in the Indian literature confirm the view that there were Indian-Meroites who could have introduced the Tokharian trade language to the Meroites. The fact that the Nubians who were probably not part of the"Meroitic state", used hieroglyphics and Coptic to write their language without abandoning their native language support the view that the Meroites could have also used Tokharian to write Meroitic. And that eventhough the Kushites wrote Meroitic inscriptions in Tokharian, theywould not have had to abandon their own language.
.

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

 -


Clyde could the Scythians be straight haired black people?

No . They represent the Scythians of Homer times.

.

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
___________________________
 -
C.B. Rawlinson

But Clyde wasn't the Royal Asiatic Society a 19th century white colonial British Eurocentic Hamitic theory promoting organization? (still operating today also)
How can you use them as sources?


Rawlinson appears to have subcribed to the Ancient Model of history which recognized that Blacks had an ancient civilization. You may want to read Black Athena, where a discussion of the ancient model of history is noted.
.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

 -


Clyde could the Scythians be straight haired black people?

No . They represent the Scythians of Homer times.

.

Why can't the Scythians of Homer's time be straight haired black people. perhaps like the relief above with black skin?
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ELIMU
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quote:
I disagree. There is no such thing as Afro-Asiatic. Egyptian was a lingua franca invenbted to unite the various nationalities that made up ancient Egypt.

The Akkadian and Geez languages are related. The Akkadians migrated from Africa into Mesopotamia where they defeated the Sumerians who were Kushites. The Sumerian language is related to the Dravidian-Niger-Congo group.

The Kalenjin are no more related to the Egyptians, then the Wolof, Mande and Bantu. All of these languages are related to Egyptian because Egyptian was a lingua franca that included many linguistic elements and shared vocabulary items from the diverse Ethnic groups that made up ancient Egypt.

The Semitic languages are African languages as well. At the base of most Semitic languages you find an African root. Hebrew , due to interactions with the People of the Sea, Gutians and other Turkic and Indo-European speakers does have elements of I-E origin.

YES,there is a language family called 'Afro-asiatic',reason being,they have both 'african' elements and 'asiatic' element.The african elements is most of the time NILOTIC.The asiatic element is most of the times 'west semitic'.
NO;it is the other way round,akkadians migrated from mesopotamia to africa,this proven by linguistics and genetics easily,when i have time i will prove that to you.what ails you clyde,is that you luck proper understanding of human migrations.I believe in the biblical history of human migration because it makes alot of sense.humans are related,we are all children of a black noah.japhet(whites),shem(asiatics&mongoloids),ham(africans).proven by genetics humans are related.
genesis 10:30 tells us after noahs arc settled in the himalayas highest point,we migrated west from mt sephar(everest),towards shinar(china)which was afghanistan then,Genesis 11:2,after the babel incidence africans entered africa,europeans antered north towards caucas,asiatics transversed the region. that explains how nilotes and other africans brought zebu cows,spider plant Gynandropsis gynandra,black and brown pottery,mariyuana,millet,sorgham from INDIA TO AFRICA.

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by LEDAMA:
quote:
I disagree. There is no such thing as Afro-Asiatic. Egyptian was a lingua franca invenbted to unite the various nationalities that made up ancient Egypt.

The Akkadian and Geez languages are related. The Akkadians migrated from Africa into Mesopotamia where they defeated the Sumerians who were Kushites. The Sumerian language is related to the Dravidian-Niger-Congo group.

The Kalenjin are no more related to the Egyptians, then the Wolof, Mande and Bantu. All of these languages are related to Egyptian because Egyptian was a lingua franca that included many linguistic elements and shared vocabulary items from the diverse Ethnic groups that made up ancient Egypt.

The Semitic languages are African languages as well. At the base of most Semitic languages you find an African root. Hebrew , due to interactions with the People of the Sea, Gutians and other Turkic and Indo-European speakers does have elements of I-E origin.

YES,there is a language family called 'Afro-asiatic',reason being,they have both 'african' elements and 'asiatic' element.The african elements is most of the time NILOTIC.The asiatic element is most of the times 'west semitic'.
NO;it is the other way round,akkadians migrated from mesopotamia to africa,this proven by linguistics and genetics easily,when i have time i will prove that to you.what ails you clyde,is that you luck proper understanding of human migrations.I believe in the biblical history of human migration because it makes alot of sense.humans are related,we are all children of a black noah.japhet(whites),shem(asiatics&mongoloids),ham(africans).proven by genetics humans are related.
genesis 10:30 tells us after noahs arc settled in the himalayas highest point,we migrated west from mt sephar(everest),towards shinar(china)which was afghanistan then,Genesis 11:2,after the babel incidence africans entered africa,europeans antered north towards caucas,asiatics transversed the region. that explains how nilotes and other africans brought zebu cows,spider plant Gynandropsis gynandra,black and brown pottery,mariyuana,millet,sorgham from INDIA TO AFRICA.

Please cite the evidence. How could the Akkadians migrate from Mesopotamia to Africa, when we find them migrating into Mesopotamia. Have you forgotten that the first settlers of Mesopotamia were the Kushite Sumerians--not Akkadians.

The Dravidian people of India belonged to the C-Group. It was these Africans who took millet and other cultigens to India after 3000BC. See: African millets carried to India by Dravidian Speakers

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/letters/

.

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Tukuler
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No.

Wawat has nothing to do with India or its people and their languages.

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ELIMU
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@CLYDE WINTERS-
quote:
Please cite the evidence. How could the Akkadians migrate from Mesopotamia to Africa, when we find them migrating into Mesopotamia. Have you forgotten that the first settlers of Mesopotamia were the Kushite Sumerians--not Akkadians.

The Dravidian people of India belonged to the C-Group. It was these Africans who took millet and other cultigens to India after 3000BC. See: African millets carried to India by Dravidian Speakers

The accadians migrated from accad(iran)into sumeria(iraq),Kush of the bible was the father of all nilotes,thats why the region near pakistan where nilotic dravidians used to reside is called 'HINDU-KUSH',characteristic of nilotic civilisations e.g egypt,kush and harrapan are 1)river basin civilisations,2)caste system,3)circumcision,4)zebu cattle,5)BRW black and red earthen ware,5)animist religions and animal totems,6)worship and sacredness of the cow,7)martriachy,8)ear lobe elongation,9)tooth extraction-lower incisors,9)use of red ochre,10)polytheist religions.
c group nilotes were either dinka or nuer or karamajong.
THE DRAVIDIANS HAVE NEVER BEEN TO AFRICA,yes they are nilotes,because they also have nilotic mtDNA L3(M&N),they have nilotic zebu cattle,but they represent the nilotes who never made it to africa,all nilotes(cush) entered africa via the horn of africa route,but the khoisan(phut),pygmy(mizrahim)and bantu(canaan) respectively all entered africa via the egypt sinai peninsula route at different times of history.Africa(also most continents) was uninhabited immediately after the flood,don't you read the bible.by the way the biblical migration history was written over 3500 years ago,and it makes alot of sense that what modern historians are saying.
sorry clyde but DNA shows migration of zebu cow,african donkey,millet,soghurm,mariuana,rice,Spider plant (Cleome gynandra) from INDIA TO AFRICA

CHECK OUT ORIGIN OF ZEBU COW OWNED BY NILOTES
quote:
Zebu
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the bovine species. For the company, see EVE/ZeBu.
Zebu
Bos taurus indicus.jpg
Conservation status
Domesticated
Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Artiodactyla
Family: Bovidae
Subfamily: Bovinae
Genus: Bos
Species: Bos primigenius
Subspecies: B. p. indicus
Binomial name
Bos primigenius indicus
Linnaeus, 1758
Synonyms
Bos indicus and Bos taurus indicus
Speculative life restoration of the enigmatic Indian aurochs (B. p. namadicus)

A zebu (/ˈziːˌbjuː/, /ˈziːbuː/ or /ˈzeɪbuː/; Bos primigenius indicus or Bos indicus or Bos taurus indicus), sometimes known as humped cattle or Brahman, is a type of domestic cattle originating in South Asia. They are characterised by a fatty hump on their shoulders, drooping ears and a large dewlap. Zebu are well adapted to withstanding high temperatures, and are farmed throughout the tropical countries, both as pure zebu and as hybrids with taurine cattle, the other main type of domestic cattle. They are used as draught oxen, as dairy cattle and as beef cattle, as well as for byproducts such as hides and dung for fuel and manure.

Contents

1 Taxonomy and etymology
2 Origin
3 Breeds
4 Characteristics
5 Spread and hybridisation
6 Popular culture
7 References
8 External links

Taxonomy and etymology

The scientific name of zebu cattle was originally Bos indicus, but they are now more commonly classified within the species Bos primigenius, together with taurine cattle (Bos primigenius taurus) and the ancestor of both of them, the extinct aurochs (Bos primigenius). European cattle are descended from the Eurasian subspecies, while zebu are descended from the Indian subspecies. "Zebu" may be either singular or plural, but "zebus" is also an acceptable plural form. The Spanish name, "cebu" or "cebú", is also present in a few English works.
Origin

Zebu cattle are thought to be derived from Asian aurochs, sometimes regarded as a subspecies, Bos primigenius namadicus[1] Wild Asian aurochs disappeared during the time of the Indus Valley Civilization from its range in the Indus basin and other parts of the Indian subcontinent possibly due to inter-breeding with domestic zebu and resultant fragmentation of wild populations due to loss of habitat.[2]
Breeds

There are some 75 known breeds of zebu, split about evenly between African breeds and South Asian ones. The major zebu cattle breeds of the world include Gir, Guzerat, Kankrej, Indo-Brazilian, Brahman, Nelore, Ongole, Sahiwal, Red Sindhi, Butana, Kenana, Boran, Baggara, Tharparkar, Kangayam, Chinese Southern Yellow, Philippine native, Kedah - Kelantan, and local Indian Dairy (LID). Other breeds of zebu are quite local, like the Hariana of Haryana and eastern Punjab[3] or the Rath of Alwar in eastern Rajasthan.[4]

The Sanga cattle breeds originated from hybridization of zebu with indigenous humpless cattle in Africa; they include the Afrikaner, Red Fulani, Ankole-Watusi, and many other breeds of central and southern Africa. Sanga cattle can be distinguished from pure zebu by having smaller humps located farther forward on the animals.
Characteristics
Female zebu in Sri Lanka

Zebu have humps on the shoulders, large dewlaps and droopy ears.[5]


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ELIMU
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THE CATTLE DID NOT MIGRATE BY THEMSELVES FROM ASIA TO AFRICA,IT CAME WITH THE NILOTES DOMISTICATED.
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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by LEDAMA:
THE DRAVIDIANS HAVE NEVER BEEN TO AFRICA,yes they are nilotes,because they also have nilotic mtDNA L3(M&N),they have nilotic zebu cattle,but they represent the nilotes who never made it to africa,all nilotes(cush) entered africa via the horn of africa route,but the khoisan(phut),pygmy(mizrahim)and bantu(canaan) respectively all entered africa via the egypt sinai peninsula route at different times of history.Africa(also most continents) was uninhabited immediately after the flood,don't you read the bible.by the way the biblical migration history was written over 3500 years ago,and it makes alot of sense that what modern historians are saying.
sorry clyde but DNA shows migration of zebu cow,african donkey,millet,soghurm,mariuana,rice,Spider plant (Cleome gynandra) from INDIA TO AFRICA



I have read the Bible. Your interpretation of the migration of the Kushites has nothing to do with history and linguistics. In fact your interpretations are based on the researchers you refer to as "pseudo -white historians", who you claim not to support--but form the basis of your model of African history. The only new element you add to your writing is the Kalenjin.

There is no archaeological evidence of millet coming to Africa from India. The millet and other crops cultivated by the Dravidians were cultivated in Africa, before they were taken to India.

Archaeological evidence shows that the Dravidian culture originated in Africa and that the South Indian megalithic culture of the Dravidians was related to the C-Group people of Nubia. I pointed out the archaeological evidence in the article I cite earlier. Now why don't you cite research articles not a Wiki page supporting your claims.

Moreover there is no DNA showing the migration of the donkey,millet,soghurm and rice from India.
The origin of the Sanga is disputed, since there are some Saharan rock engravings of cattle with humps.

 -
In the picture below you can see a mixture of Saharan cattle. Note the long horned Sanga type cattle at the top of the picture below:
 -
.
 -

These pictures are 7000 years old. The Dravidians probably took the Zebu cattle to India after they migrated from Nubia.

.


.

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Those "humps" look nothing like those of full bred Zebu cattle to me.

  • we now find strong evidence of exportations from the Indian subcontinent to China and southeast Asia, India to Africa, Africa to the Iberian Peninsula and Mediterranean Europe, India to the Americas, and Europe to the Americas (Figures 4 and ​and5,5, discussed in detail in the following subsections).

[...]
[...]

Jared E. Decker et al
Worldwide Patterns of Ancestry, Divergence, and Admixture in Domesticated Cattle

PLoS Genet. Mar 2014; 10(3): e1004254.

See also
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967955/figure/pgen-1004254-g005/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967955/figure/pgen-1004254-g006/

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
Please. Those "humps" look nothing like those of Zebu cattle.

  • we now find strong evidence of exportations from the Indian subcontinent to China and southeast Asia, India to Africa, Africa to the Iberian Peninsula and Mediterranean Europe, India to the Americas, and Europe to the Americas (Figures 4 and ​and5,5, discussed in detail in the following subsections).

[...]
[...]

Jared E. Decker et al
Worldwide Patterns of Ancestry, Divergence, and Admixture in Domesticated Cattle

PLoS Genet. Mar 2014; 10(3): e1004254.

See also
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967955/figure/pgen-1004254-g005/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967955/figure/pgen-1004254-g006/

The Khoisan Sanga cattle have larger humps

 -

.

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Tukuler
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So do White Fulani Zebu, remember?
So what?
Bait and switch?
Modern Sanga ^= prehistoric Saharan cattle.
What's this?
One picture is supposed to overturn a genetic report?
Wrong forum. Try Ancient Egypt.

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
So do White Fulani Zebu, remember?
So what?
Bait and switch?
Modern Sanga ^= prehistoric Saharan cattle.
What's this?
One picture is supposed to overturn a genetic report?
Wrong forum. Try Ancient Egypt.

The genetic report says that the African cattle were not all mixed. It also makes it clear that Indic cattle are a recent addition to the African region. See:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967955/pdf/pgen.1004254.pdf

.
It is possible that after the Mande and Dravidians entered Central Asia and India they may have took Zebu cattle back to Africa.

I was lurking your discussion of cattle in another thread. This led me to the Khoisan cattle. This was interesting because the Khoisan had their own terms for cattle unrelated to Bantu cattle terms. They also have Barbary goats.

This makes me wonder if the Khoisan may have domesticated cattle while they were in North Africa and migrated back into South Africa with these cattles. I an still researching this possibility.

.

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ELIMU
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@Tukuler
quote:
Those "humps" look nothing like those of full bred Zebu cattle to me.
I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING,THANKS MAN [Smile]
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ELIMU
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quote:
It is possible that after the Mande and Dravidians entered Central Asia and India they may have took Zebu cattle back to Africa.

Are the mande people the only african people you have studied,you seem to place them everywhere in history,where they don't belong.Mande people related genetically to pygmies were the CASLUHIM of the bible,being descendants of MIZRAHIM(ancestor of pygmies who died and was buried in egypt).The mande people mixed with bantus,or were bottled necked by bantus,these mixed bantu/mande(casluhim pygmies) were the CARTHEGIANS.,YES BARCA of cathage,Hannibal were all mande people.
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ELIMU
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@clyde
quote:
The Khoisan Sanga cattle have larger humps

That is because the khoisan sanga is mix with ZEBU,taken to south africa by a nilotic people related to SOUTHERN NILOTES,the biggest suspects are DATOOGA people,their name in kalenjin is TA-TOGA meaning 'she-from Tto(egypt).according to kalenjin Tto was a location in MISIRI(egypt),nilotic people related to datooga Y E-M293 and E-V68,took Zebu cattle to south africa,before bantus were ever in south africa.south african bantus at that time were either in libya or canaan at that time.
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quote:
Originally posted by LEDAMA:
quote:
It is possible that after the Mande and Dravidians entered Central Asia and India they may have took Zebu cattle back to Africa.

Are the mande people the only african people you have studied,you seem to place them everywhere in history,where they don't belong.Mande people related genetically to pygmies were the CASLUHIM of the bible,being descendants of MIZRAHIM(ancestor of pygmies who died and was buried in egypt).The mande people mixed with bantus,or were bottled necked by bantus,these mixed bantu/mande(casluhim pygmies) were the CARTHEGIANS.,YES BARCA of cathage,Hannibal were all mande people.
LOL. This is BS.

I have studied the history of Black people everywhere.


Check out this video: Short History of Black People

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rAjg6725dQ


.

.

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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:

So do White Fulani Zebu, remember?
So what?
Bait and switch?
Modern Sanga ^= prehistoric Saharan cattle.
What's this?
One picture is supposed to overturn a genetic report?
Wrong forum. Try Ancient Egypt.

.

The genetic report says that the African cattle were not all mixed. It also makes it clear that Indic cattle are a recent addition to the African region. See:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967955/pdf/pgen.1004254.pdf

.
It is possible that after the Mande and Dravidians entered Central Asia and India they may have took Zebu cattle back to Africa.

I was lurking your discussion of cattle in another thread. This led me to the Khoisan cattle. This was interesting because the Khoisan had their own terms for cattle unrelated to Bantu cattle terms. They also have Barbary goats.

This makes me wonder if the Khoisan may have domesticated cattle while they were in North Africa and migrated back into South Africa with these cattles. I an still researching this possibility.

.

Deckers' report was clear that Bos Indicus went from
India to Africa < 4k. The report supports neither African
origin nor out movement of Bos Indicus. Though posted
above I will repost here for ease of access

Folk say anything is possible but all possibilities
are not probable, as in your case of Dravidian
Mande migration and cattle introduction, afaic.

The report date places Zebu introduction to Africa
in a time period possibly related to known Indian
connections in Kush and Egypt basing myself on
appearance of Hindu graves in the Nile Valley.
(Is that thread still available?)

I had it on my crashed ext stg but I can't find
the thread where that Zebu discussion was held
online. You still have access to it?

The idea of Khoe or San like people as primary
indigenous N Afrs has fell from grace but I'm
not so sure it's totally incorrect because of
things like you just brought up keep that
possibility in mind as probable.

Keep up your researches. Don't agree with much
of them yet there are intriguing parts to it that
are undeniably accurate from where I sit.

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
The report date places Zebu introduction to Africa
in a time period possibly related to known Indian
connections in Kush and Egypt basing myself on
appearance of Hindu graves in the Nile Valley.
(Is that thread still available?)

I would definitely like to see this thread because the Hindus practice cremation .


 -


The only Indian elements in the Nile Valley that I know of were related to Buddhism and they came from Meroitic civilization.

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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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You should spin off that thread. ANd plug in trade and
other links between India and the Nile Valley.

 -

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ELIMU
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@Tukuler-you seem to be the only sane person here who is interested in knowing the true world history,people like clyde are interested in black supremacy,people like clyde victims of white supremacy,will never tolerate the fact that africa may not have been the cradle of mankind.My thesis as you noticed is always supported by genetics and archeology,clydes pseudo-bullshit history are never supported by genetics,e.g mande in meso america(no genetic evidence),dravidians in africa(no genetic evidence),negritos are east africans(no genetic evidence),no wonder people don't take clyde seriously,he wants us to take his bulshit history as fact,just because he has written volumes of books on them.
i am a black man,but i am not into extreme afro-centric black supremacy,which together with white supremacy eurocentrism are responsible for distoting african history.although eurocentrism is the most gulty in this,i consider myself TRUTHCENTRIC,the bible is my primary source,which i support with genetic evidence,i am also interested in biblical archeology but i am not part with them,cause they are blinded by eurocentrism.so i am a lone ranger.

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ELIMU
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@ clyde winters -
quote:
It is possible that after the Mande and Dravidians entered Central Asia and India they may have took Zebu cattle back to Africa.

ARE YOU SERIOUS [Big Grin] [Big Grin] ,let me laugh hahahahaha...this is the most ignorant thing i have ever heard,no offence brother clyde.
Let me get this straight,the mande together with dravidians,migrated out of africa,went to mesopotamia,started sumerian civilisation,then came back to africa with zebu cattle,left them at the hands of nilotes,then dravidians returned to mesopotamia,apparently leaving the mande in africa,who willingly entrusted all the zebu cattle at the hands of nilotes and bantu fulani.makes sense(sarcasm).
DEBUNKED;
1)DRAVIDIANS HAVE NEVER BEEN TO AFRICA.NO DNA EVIDENCE.
2)IN AFRICA ONLY THE NILOTES AND BANTU FULANI TRADITIONALLY OWNED ZEBU CATTLE,THE MANDE NEVER OWNED ZEBUS TRADITIONALLY,THE DRAVIDIANS OWNED ZEBUS BECAUSE THEY REPRESENT THE NILOTES THAT NEVER MADE IT TO AFRICA.

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ELIMU
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I always say,the history of africa,is safely preserved in the bible,for 3500 years.
@Tukuler..
quote:
The idea of Khoe or San like people as primary
indigenous N Afrs has fell from grace but I'm
not so sure it's totally incorrect because of
things like you just brought up keep that
possibility in mind as probable.

clyde somehow thinks,the khoisan and maasai are some primitive africans who are indigenous to africa,and that have never left africa,but he cannot explain how the maasai,khoisan and even yoruba acquired caucasian NIENDERTHAL DNA.but the holy bible documents the presence of maasai(sabaeans) in arabia,where maasai morans(sabaeans)stole the oxen of job,cattle rustling is still practised by maasai today.
MAA-PEOPLE IN ARABIA
Possibly during sabaean colonisation of yemen,JOB of the the bible could have been either a yemenite jew,or falasha jews who migrated with tigray to eritrea.
Job 1:14-15
quote:
And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:

15 And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

.

The maa-speaking people even today value donkeys and cattle.
maasai E-M215,E-M35 and mtDNA L3h is present in both arabia and ethiopia.
Autosomal African admixture in Yemeni populations
quote:
. Dienekes included Behar’s Ethiopians (non-Jews) for Dodecad. Additionally, he included the Masai population from the HapMap. This turns out to be important because he found that Ethiopian Sub-Saharan ancestry is similar to that of the Masai, not the other African groups.
The genetic affinities of Ethiopians
also check out these threads
Ethiopian Languages Sound Too Similar to Kalenjin, Maasai
Kenyan masai people look somali - Topix


PHUT(KHOISAN) IN ANATOLIA AND NORTH AFRICA
The holy bible also documents the presence of PHUT(khoisan people) in anatolia and north africa,
Ezekiel 27:10
quote:
They of Persia and of Lud and of Phut were in thine army, thy men of war: they hanged the shield and helmet in thee; they set forth thy comeliness.

Y-DNA A1 is also found anatolia,taken there by khoisan soldiers.khoisan mtDNA LOa and Y-DNA A-M113 is present in all nilotes,especially eastern nilotes.NILOTIC principle DNA is E3b.pygmies are B,khoisan A.Nilotes(cush) with A-M113 mixed with khoisan(phut) as in ezekiel 38:5.
in ezekiel 38:5,some versions associate phut(put) with libya north africa

web pageHumanity's forgotten return to Africa revealed in DNA
 - .
people like clyde winters claim the khoisan were an isolated group hence were not affected by flood.But the bible says all humanity was affected by that flood which covered the whole world.According to genesis 10:6,phut(khoikhoi and san ancestor)was a son of HAM(father of all africans).according to the bible all humans are related and are children of NOAH after the flood,this is supported by genetics.

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by LEDAMA:
@ clyde winters -
quote:
It is possible that after the Mande and Dravidians entered Central Asia and India they may have took Zebu cattle back to Africa.

ARE YOU SERIOUS [Big Grin] [Big Grin] ,let me laugh hahahahaha...this is the most ignorant thing i have ever heard,no offence brother clyde.
Let me get this straight,the mande together with dravidians,migrated out of africa,went to mesopotamia,started sumerian civilisation,then came back to africa with zebu cattle,left them at the hands of nilotes,then dravidians returned to mesopotamia,apparently leaving the mande in africa,who willingly entrusted all the zebu cattle at the hands of nilotes and bantu fulani.makes sense(sarcasm).
DEBUNKED;
1)DRAVIDIANS HAVE NEVER BEEN TO AFRICA.NO DNA EVIDENCE.
2)IN AFRICA ONLY THE NILOTES AND BANTU FULANI TRADITIONALLY OWNED ZEBU CATTLE,THE MANDE NEVER OWNED ZEBUS TRADITIONALLY,THE DRAVIDIANS OWNED ZEBUS BECAUSE THEY REPRESENT THE NILOTES THAT NEVER MADE IT TO AFRICA.

LEDAMA you don't know what you're talking about.

The Dravidians are of African origin. They belonged to the Maa civilization. Archaeological and genetic evidence illustrate that the Dravidians came from Africa.


The Dravidians and Mande began to migrate out of Africa by 2800BC. They were part of the C-Group. They first settled in Iran and from here expanded into Central Asia and the Indus Valley.


B.B. Lal ("The Only Asian expedition in threatened Nubia:Work by an Indian Mission at Afyeh and Tumas", The Illustrated London Times , 20 April 1963) and Indian Egyptologist has shown conclusively that the Dravidians originated in the Saharan area 5000 years ago. He claims they came from Kush, in the Fertile African Crescent and were related to the C-Group people who founded the Kerma dynasty in the 3rd millennium B.C. (Lal 1963) The Dravidians used a common black-and-red pottery, which spread from Nubia, through modern Ethiopia, Arabia, Iran into India as a result of the Proto-Saharan dispersal.


B.B. Lal (1963) a leading Indian archaeologist in India has observed that the black and red ware (BRW) dating to the Kerma dynasty of Nubia, is related to the Dravidian megalithic pottery. Singh (1982) believes that this pottery radiated from Nubia to India. This pottery along with wavy-line pottery is associated with the Saharo-Sudanese pottery tradition of ancient Africa . I call these people the Proto Saharans. I discuss their history here:

http://olmec98.net/Fertile1.pdf


Aravaanan (1980) has written extensively on the African and Dravidian relations. He has illustrated that the Africans and Dravidian share many physical similarities including the dolichocephalic indexes (Aravaanan 1980,pp.62-263; Raceand History.com,2006), platyrrhine nasal index (Aravaanan 1980,pp.25-27), stature (31-32) and blood type (Aravaanan 1980,34-35; RaceandHistory.com,2006). Aravaanan (1980,p.40) also presented much evidence for analogous African and Dravidian cultural features including the chipping of incisor teeth and the use of the lost wax process to make bronze works of arts (Aravaanan 1980,p.41).

There are also similarities between the Dravidian and African religions. For example, both groups held a common interest in the cult of the Serpent and believed in a Supreme God, who lived in a place of peace and tranquility ( Thundy, p.87; J.T. Cornelius,"Are Dravidians Dynastic Egyptians", Trans. of the Archaeological Society of South India 1951-1957, pp.90-117; and U.P. Upadhyaya, "Dravidian and Negro-African", International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics 5, no.1) .

There are also affinities between the names of many gods including Amun/Amma and Murugan . Murugan the Dravidian god of the mountains parallels a common god in East Africa worshipped by 25 ethnic groups is called Murungu, the god who resides in the mountains .

Up until the South Indian megalithic period the Dravidians continued to use black-and-red ware and Libyco-Berber/Indus Valley writing. Under the influence of the Axumite writing the script changed into what it is today. The architecture of the Dravidians is an ornamented pyramid with statues and other featured added within the construction of the pyramid.

 -

The architecture makes it clear that they have remained faithful to classical pyramid style.

Dravidians have a unique culture—but it is analogous to many culture presently found in Africa.

The Dravidians were Kushites. The Kushites were predominately Niger-Congo speakers. The hundreds of words associated with this finding support a genetic relationship between Niger-Congo and Dravidian languages.Until you can show there is no evidence of a linguistic relationship you are living in a dream world .

In summary, Dravidian tribal populations and Africans also share several y-chromosome, HLA and mtDNA .

The 9bp transition at 16311 are congruent among Dravidians and West Africans . The analysis revealed that the Nadar and Fulani HLA indicate that the populations share a number of unique alleles including A*101, A*0211,A*03011, A*3303, B*3501, B*3701, B*51011 .

Shared y-chromosomes include H1, K2 or Y-DNA T-M70 (11%). The Highest frequency of T-M70 in the world is found among the Fulani. In relation to y-chromosome H1, 22% of Dravidians carry this haplogroup .

Sickle cell anemia is frequent among Africans and Dravidian Tribal populations. It is interesting that the Arab-Indian and Senegal haplotypes are both associated with a C!T mutation at position -158 .

The Dravidians belong to the M macrohaplogroup. Shared Afro-Indo M haplogroups include M1, M30, and M33. The M1 haplogroup was especially evident among high caste people in Kerela .

References:

Lal BB. 1963. “The Only Asian Expedition in threatened Nubia: Work by an India Mission at Afyeh and Tumas”. The Illustrated Times, London 20 April.

Singh, H.N. 1982. History and archaeology of Blackand Red ware. Vedic Books.net: Manchester.
Clyde Winters (2007) Did the Dravidian Speakers Originate in Africa? BioEssays, 27(5): 497-498.

Clyde Winters (2012) Comparison of Fulani and Nadar HLA. Indian J Hum Genet [serial online] 2012 [cited 2012 Jul 1];18:137-8. Available from: http://www.ijhg.com/text.asp?2012/18/1/137/96686

Clyde Winters (2010. Y-Chromosome evidence of an African origin of Dravidian agriculture. International Journal of Genetics and Molecular Biology, 2(3): 030 – 033. http://www.academicjournals.org/IJGMB/abstracts/abstracts/abstracts2010/Mar/Winters.htm

Clyde Winters (2010) Paper Advantageous Alleles, Parallel Adaptation, Geographic Location andSickle Cell Anemia among Africans
Advances in Bioresearch,1(2):69-71. http://www.soeagra.com/abr/vol2/12.pdf

Clyde Winters (2008) ARE DRAVIDIANS OF AFRICAN ORIGIN http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/IJHG/IJHG-08-0-000-000-2008-Web/IJHG-08-4-317-368-2008-Abst-PDF/IJHG-08-4-325-08-362-Winder-C/IJHG-08-4-325-08-362-Winder-C-Tt.pdf

'

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the lioness,
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Clyde, the Dravidians are straight haired. Does this mean that if they originated in Africa they had straight hair when they were in Africa?
Also, who are their ancestors in Africa? What tribe currently and/or historically are the African version of Dravidians?

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by LEDAMA:
clyde somehow thinks,the khoisan and maasai are some primitive africans who are indigenous to africa,and that have never left africa,but he cannot explain how the maasai,khoisan and even yoruba acquired caucasian NIENDERTHAL DNA.

Clyde says the Neanderthals were black and represented in Africa by Homo heidelbergensis sometimes called Homo rhodesiensis.

Question, who are the Neanderthals according to the bible?

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ELIMU
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@ clyde winters-
quote:
4 Icon 1 posted 15 September, 2014 06:35 AM Profile for Clyde Winters Author's Homepage Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote

quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA:
@ clyde winters -

quote:It is possible that after the Mande and Dravidians entered Central Asia and India they may have took Zebu cattle back to Africa.

ARE YOU SERIOUS [Big Grin] [Big Grin] ,let me laugh hahahahaha...this is the most ignorant thing i have ever heard,no offence brother clyde.
Let me get this straight,the mande together with dravidians,migrated out of africa,went to mesopotamia,started sumerian civilisation,then came back to africa with zebu cattle,left them at the hands of nilotes,then dravidians returned to mesopotamia,apparently leaving the mande in africa,who willingly entrusted all the zebu cattle at the hands of nilotes and bantu fulani.makes sense(sarcasm).
DEBUNKED;
1)DRAVIDIANS HAVE NEVER BEEN TO AFRICA.NO DNA EVIDENCE.
2)IN AFRICA ONLY THE NILOTES AND BANTU FULANI TRADITIONALLY OWNED ZEBU CATTLE,THE MANDE NEVER OWNED ZEBUS TRADITIONALLY,THE DRAVIDIANS OWNED ZEBUS BECAUSE THEY REPRESENT THE NILOTES THAT NEVER MADE IT TO AFRICA.

LEDAMA you don't know what you're talking about.

The Dravidians are of African origin. They belonged to the Maa civilization. Archaeological and genetic evidence illustrate that the Dravidians came from Africa.


The Dravidians and Mande began to migrate out of Africa by 2800BC. They were part of the C-Group. They first settled in Iran and from here expanded into Central Asia and the Indus Valley.


B.B. Lal ("The Only Asian expedition in threatened Nubia:Work by an Indian Mission at Afyeh and Tumas", The Illustrated London Times , 20 April 1963) and Indian Egyptologist has shown conclusively that the Dravidians originated in the Saharan area 5000 years ago. He claims they came from Kush, in the Fertile African Crescent and were related to the C-Group people who founded the Kerma dynasty in the 3rd millennium B.C. (Lal 1963) The Dravidians used a common black-and-red pottery, which spread from Nubia, through modern Ethiopia, Arabia, Iran into India as a result of the Proto-Saharan dispersal.


B.B. Lal (1963) a leading Indian archaeologist in India has observed that the black and red ware (BRW) dating to the Kerma dynasty of Nubia, is related to the Dravidian megalithic pottery. Singh (1982) believes that this pottery radiated from Nubia to India. This pottery along with wavy-line pottery is associated with the Saharo-Sudanese pottery tradition of ancient Africa . I call these people the Proto Saharans. I discuss their history here:

http://olmec98.net/Fertile1.pdf


Aravaanan (1980) has written extensively on the African and Dravidian relations. He has illustrated that the Africans and Dravidian share many physical similarities including the dolichocephalic indexes (Aravaanan 1980,pp.62-263; Raceand History.com,2006), platyrrhine nasal index (Aravaanan 1980,pp.25-27), stature (31-32) and blood type (Aravaanan 1980,34-35; RaceandHistory.com,2006). Aravaanan (1980,p.40) also presented much evidence for analogous African and Dravidian cultural features including the chipping of incisor teeth and the use of the lost wax process to make bronze works of arts (Aravaanan 1980,p.41).

There are also similarities between the Dravidian and African religions. For example, both groups held a common interest in the cult of the Serpent and believed in a Supreme God, who lived in a place of peace and tranquility ( Thundy, p.87; J.T. Cornelius,"Are Dravidians Dynastic Egyptians", Trans. of the Archaeological Society of South India 1951-1957, pp.90-117; and U.P. Upadhyaya, "Dravidian and Negro-African", International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics 5, no.1) .

There are also affinities between the names of many gods including Amun/Amma and Murugan . Murugan the Dravidian god of the mountains parallels a common god in East Africa worshipped by 25 ethnic groups is called Murungu, the god who resides in the mountains .

Up until the South Indian megalithic period the Dravidians continued to use black-and-red ware and Libyco-Berber/Indus Valley writing. Under the influence of the Axumite writing the script changed into what it is today. The architecture of the Dravidians is an ornamented pyramid with statues and other featured added within the construction of the pyramid.

The dravidians are nilotic branch,that is why they were very tall and very black,except the west asian straight hair phenotype.but their culture is basically NILOTIC.BRW(black and red earthen ware is nilotic pottery esp western and eastern nilotes,but BRW with the wavy dotted line known as NDERIT WARE belongs to southern nilotes kalenjin,datooga and omotik).Maa-speakers or speakers of maa language are maasai,samburu,lotuko,njemps(illchamus),rendille(formerly a somali clan assimilated into masai,REER-NDILLE in somali means 'house of ndille).Are you saying dravidians are related to maasai maa-speakers?
chipping of incisor teeth is a nilotic trait not bantu.
There are no affinities between the names of dravidian deities and african.MURUGAN does not equal MURUNGU,the word murungu is a kikuyu and Ameru corruption of the bantu supreme god MULUNGU.

quote:
The Dravidians were Kushites. The Kushites were predominately Niger-Congo speakers. The hundreds of words associated with this finding support a genetic relationship between Niger-Congo and Dravidian languages.
yes,THE DRAVIDIANS WERE KUSHITES(NILOTES).
NO:The kushites were and are predomintally NILO-SAHARAN SPEAKERS.There is also a genetic relationship between nilotic and bantu,have you ever made that comparison?oh i forgot the only african language you know is MANDE.

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ELIMU
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@ LIONESS-
quote:
Icon 1 posted 15 September, 2014 07:44 AM Profile for the lioness, Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote

quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA:
clyde somehow thinks,the khoisan and maasai are some primitive africans who are indigenous to africa,and that have never left africa,but he cannot explain how the maasai,khoisan and even yoruba acquired caucasian NIENDERTHAL DNA.

Clyde says the Neanderthals were black and represented in Africa by Homo heidelbergensis sometimes called Homo rhodesiensis.

Question, who are the Neanderthals according to the bible?

Clyde is confused,if nienderthals were black,then white people would be black,neonderthal DNA is an alien DNA that mixed with human(black african DNA),THAT MEANS from ADAM(AOO)all the way to NOAH(AOO)everybody was black,untill mutation occured,this mutation is recorded in the bible;Genesis 6:1-8
quote:
Genesis 6 King James Version (KJV)

6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

,
some people have interpreted " the sons of God" either as ;1)fallen angels,demons 2)aliens, e.t.c,but whoever they are,it is they who injected nienderthal DNA into human DNA,they very wicked,they also introduced homosexuality into humanity.they corrupted the pure human dna,thats why God destroyed them,to preserve messianic human gene.Noah was the only pure person,that means he didn't have nienderthal gene,but his wife may have had little amounts which she transfered to japhet and shem but not Ham.
The Divine Preservation of the Messianic Line: The True Meaning of the Holidays
Bloodlines of the Nephilim – A Biblical Study

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ELIMU
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adam AOO NOAH AO,MIZRAIM BT,CUSH E3B & D,CANAAN E,PHUT A1
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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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Member # 15718

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pdf links:

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UCLA Encyclopedia of Egyptology
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http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0r77f2f8,escholarship.org,Saddle-Billed Stork (Ba-Bird)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4zz9t461,escholarship.org,Prehistoric Regional Cultures
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1hb1s3pn,escholarship.org,Dynasties 2 and 3
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9988b193,escholarship.org,Late Fourth Millennium BCE
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1sd2j49d,escholarship.org,Wadi el-Hol
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/6x587846,escholarship.org,Music and Musicians
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2j11p1r7,escholarship.org,Gebelein
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3h92j4bj,escholarship.org,Karnak: the Temple of Amun-Ra-Who-Hears-Prayers
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3gk7274p,escholarship.org,Late Middle Kingdom
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4xk4h68c,escholarship.org,Ornamental Stones
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7255p86v,escholarship.org,Akh
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9m96g9sb,escholarship.org,Northern Bald Ibis (Akh-Bird)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3945t7f7,escholarship.org,Travel
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2zg136m8,escholarship.org,Late Dynastic Period
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/30h78901,escholarship.org,Inheritance
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/75p1n928,escholarship.org,Edfu
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0cc615kx,escholarship.org,Land Donations
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/833528zm,escholarship.org,Egypt and Greece Before Alexander
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7qf6v8wr,escholarship.org,Late Second Intermediate Period to Early New Kingdom
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/68f6w5gw,escholarship.org,Marriage and Divorce
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0rb1k58f,escholarship.org,Linguistic consciousness
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/31v360n5,escholarship.org,Boats (Use of)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3xq6b093,escholarship.org,Transportation
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7t12z11t,escholarship.org,Personal Names: Function and Significance
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/42v9x6xp,escholarship.org,Personal Names: Structures and Patterns
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/5hc3t8dh,escholarship.org,"Shenhur, Temple of"
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/79m150qt,escholarship.org,Jmjwt
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/5xm3202h,escholarship.org,Qau el-Kebir
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3fd124g0,escholarship.org,Building Stones
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/57f2d2sk,escholarship.org,Gemstones
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/77t294df,escholarship.org,Utilitarian Stones
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1nr1d3s9,escholarship.org,Land Tenure (to the End of the Ptolemaic Period)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1456t8bn,escholarship.org,Philae
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2x73c8bz,escholarship.org,Gebel el-Silsila
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4136j3s7,escholarship.org,Law Courts
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0mr4h4fv,escholarship.org,Law: Definitions and Codification
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/8mx2073f,escholarship.org,Slavery and Servitude
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/6cx744kk,escholarship.org,Shabtis
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/99j1g8zh,escholarship.org,Deir el-Gabrawi
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2bn8c9gz,escholarship.org,Households
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2sx1v5nh,escholarship.org,Coptos
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/32r9x0jr,escholarship.org,Ethnicity
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1k3663r3,escholarship.org,Harem
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2xj8c3qg,escholarship.org,Thoth
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9ct397mm,escholarship.org,"Epithets, Divine"
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4983w678,escholarship.org,Mud-Brick Architecture
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/6k78t4w9,escholarship.org,Esna
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2018g2c8,escholarship.org,Esna-North
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9p13z2vp,escholarship.org,Taxation
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/8xj4k0ww,escholarship.org,Birth House (Mammisi)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/8xc7k559,escholarship.org,Throne
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0n21d4bm,escholarship.org,Amarna Art
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4pc0w4hg,escholarship.org,El-Mo?alla to El-Deir
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/8tf3j2qq,escholarship.org,Cosmogony (Late to Ptolemaic and Roman Periods)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1q346284,escholarship.org,Karnak: Settlements
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4fs1k0w9,escholarship.org,Village
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2w17t0cw,escholarship.org,"Glass Working, Use and Discard"
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3f23c0q9,escholarship.org,Block Statue
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3rv0t4np,escholarship.org,Sex and Gender
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/6kt9m29r,escholarship.org,Deir el-Medina (Development)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7tr1814c,escholarship.org,Foreign Deities in Egypt
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9bb918sd,escholarship.org,Quarrying and Mining (Stone)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7426178c,escholarship.org,Painted Funerary Portraits
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2vp6065d,escholarship.org,Reuse and Restoration
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/5gj996k5,escholarship.org,Usurpation of Monuments
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9cf2v6q3,escholarship.org,Child Deities
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4739r3fr,escholarship.org,Opet Festival
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2vh551hn,escholarship.org,Myth of the Heavenly Cow
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1r32g9zn,escholarship.org,Funerary Rituals (Pharaonic Period)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/55b9t6d7,escholarship.org,Hiw (Predynastic)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7pb3h0h1,escholarship.org,Stone Tool Production
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0gn7x3ff,escholarship.org,Mummification
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3tn7q1pf,escholarship.org,Archaism
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9370v0rz,escholarship.org,Portrait versus Ideal Image
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1026h44g,escholarship.org,Education and Apprenticeship
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/51b2647c,escholarship.org,Patterns of Royal Name-giving
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1r72q9vv,escholarship.org,Demons (benevolent and malevolent)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1gh1q0md,escholarship.org,"Recitation, Speech Acts, and Declamation"
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/47x6w6m0,escholarship.org,Kilns and Firing Structures
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7gh1n151,escholarship.org,Liquids in Temple Ritual
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/8f21r7sj,escholarship.org,The Body
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1n10x347,escholarship.org,Funerary rituals (Ptolemaic and Roman Periods)
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/5t48n007,escholarship.org,Shrine
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3g726122,escholarship.org,Cartouche
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1f28q08h,escholarship.org,Karnak: Development of the Temple of Amun-Ra
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4737m1mb,escholarship.org,Feathers
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3kk97509,escholarship.org,Deified Humans
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7zh1g7ch,escholarship.org,Kinship and Family Relations
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4cd7q9mn,escholarship.org,Temple Festivals of the Ptolemaic and Roman Periods
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/6wk541n0,escholarship.org,Rituals Related to Animal Cults
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7v84d6rh,escholarship.org,Mud-Brick
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/6tv88003,escholarship.org,Drama
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2t01s4qj,escholarship.org,Economy
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/65m484sn,escholarship.org,Wooden Statuary
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/4qx7k7pz,escholarship.org,Rock Art
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/5n53q5fc,escholarship.org,Papyrus Manufacture
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0pb1r0w3,escholarship.org,Perfume
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/5142h0db,escholarship.org,Dance
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/9cs9x41z,escholarship.org,Faience Technology
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/1nq7k84p,escholarship.org,Pottery Production
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0tm87064,escholarship.org,Ostrich Eggshell
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/7kp4n7rk,escholarship.org,Votive Practices
http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3416c82m,escholarship.org,Queen [/QB][/QUOTE]

Posts: 5107 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tukuler
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Member # 19944

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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:

The report date places Zebu introduction to Africa
in a time period possibly related to known Indian
connections in Kush and Egypt basing myself on
appearance of Hindu graves in the Nile Valley.
(Is that thread still available?)

I would definitely like to see this thread because the Hindus practice cremation .


 -


The only Indian elements in the Nile Valley that I know of were related to Buddhism and they came from Meroitic civilization.

.

My bad, it must've been Buddhist or a cenotaph or whatever.

  • I doubt if Indian spirituality skipped ancient Sudan (as most
    evidenced by Apedemak taking on extra faces and arms) since
    Gymnosophist were in Sudan and Buddhist were in both Alexandria
    and Axum -- ancient Sudan being 'mid-point.'
from your Gymnosophist of Meroe and Meroitic Writing thread.
Not the thread I remember replying to someone else
about Indian immigrants in the ancient Nile Valley.

Posts: 3774 | From: the Tekrur bordering Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Clyde Winters
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Member # 10129

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Posts: 12261 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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