posted
The hair is actually a wig but is still the real hair of the mummy itself. The embalmers removed the hair before the mummification process so the hair wouldn't lighten and straighten due to the embalming process. That way they could depict the actual texture and color of the hair as it was in real life.
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: The hair is actually a wig but is still the real hair of the mummy itself. The embalmers removed the hair before the mummification process so the hair wouldn't lighten and straighten due to the embalming process. That way they could depict the actual texture and color of the hair as it was in real life.
Thanks, but unfortunately your rather well rounded explanation will not sink into the Snakes head. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: The hair is actually a wig but is still the real hair of the mummy itself. The embalmers removed the hair before the mummification process so the hair wouldn't lighten and straighten due to the embalming process. That way they could depict the actual texture and color of the hair as it was in real life.
Our little girl is growing up to be quite the lying troll. Lioness must be just Sooo proud.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple-brained Girl: The hair is actually a wig but is still the real hair of the mummy itself. The embalmers removed the hair before the mummification process so the hair wouldn't lighten and straighten due to the embalming process. That way they could depict the actual texture and color of the hair as it was in real life.
This issue was discussed all too many times. There is no evidence that the wig was made out the mummies own natural hair. If this prince Maiherpra was like other ancient Egyptian royals, he would have kept his head shaven all along and bought wigs made from other sources. Of course there are some royals who kept their natural hair and depending on aridity of the environment as well as the amount of chemicals yes, the hair color and texture would have been altered.
Unless of course the simple minded girl wants to argue for the presence of auburn hair amongst ancient Peruvians.
^ Back during the 1930s, Nazis used such mummies above as "proof" of Aryans founding the Inca civilization! LOL
No doubt Hammered-brains and Simple-minded girl have the same mentality about ancient Egypt. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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To stay on the topic of this mummy's hair, whether his own hair or a wig, it most certainly is natural woolly/coilly/nappy hair as anyone who has such hair growing atop their own head can testify.
SimpleGirl seems correct in so far as the hair being real and a wig. That the embalmers removed it from the corpse and made a wig of it remains guesswork unless she has evidence for such a procedure.
quote:In addition there was a beautifully illustrated Book of the Dead papyrus (now in Cairo) made especially for Maiherpra, showing him as he actually looked, for when the mummy was unwrapped in 1901, the well-preserved body of a man about 24 years of age with dark skin and short dark curly hair was revealed. The hair later was found to be a wig, but his Nubian connection is clear, and became even more obvious after the discovery by Howard Carter in the following year. In a small rock hollow just above the tomb, Carter found two leather loincloths carefully folded in a wooden box bearing Maiherpra's name.
Maiherpa was clearly a man of status. He was the first to bear the title fanbearer, a title of high distinction later borne by the men in charge of administering Nubia, the Viceroys of Kush. The fanbearer was a trusted personal friend of the king, who not only carried a feathered fan alongside pharaoh at public ceremonies but also formed part of his personal bodyguard. Maiherpra probably knew the king from childhood. His title, child of the royal nursery, indicates that he was raised in the palace and educated with the princes and princesses.
... as our work is showing, he may have been the descendent of one of the wealthy Nubian families that had been resident at the Hierakonpolis for generations.
Of course Lioness presented this as a foil to the idea that the mummifying process lightened and straightened the hair of Egyptian mummies with light non-nappy hair.
Personally, I doubt all light and straight mummy hair is due to mummification processes.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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This topic is a ruse, a way to insinuate and repeat a false notion...
Diop seemed both puzzled and suspicious when he wrote;
quote:
It is customary to mention the straight hair of certain carefully chosen mummies, the only ones found in museums, to affirm that they represent a prototype of the White race, notwithstanding their prognathism. These mummies are displayed conspicuously in an attempt to prove the whiteness of the Egyptians. The very coarseness of their hair precludes acceptance of that contention. When such hair exists on the head of a mummy, it merely indicates the Dravidian type, in reality, whereas the prognathism and black skin-pigmented, not blackened by tar or any other product-excludes any idea of a white race. The meticulous selection process to which they have been subjected rules out any possibility of their being a prototype. -- The African Origin of Civilization
Diop was, of course, correct on two points:
1) Among the Cushitic peoples of northeast Africa, of which the Kememou formed a part, long hair and straight hair was common. It certainly wasn't unusual.
2) Given their tract record, it is plain common sense, to be skeptical of Western Egyptologists and their 'discoveries' and presentations.
But it is my opinion, that due to the process of mummification, it is doubtful that any really 'woolly-haired' mummies would ever be found, except for those who died with plaited hair, usually female. And I think that had Diop lived in Harlem, for example, prior to the 1960s, he probably would have understood why this would be.
Ancient Egyptian mummies were, inadvertently, submitted to a form of 'conking' and/or Jheri curl, and every Black person knows, you don't go in for this treatment with your hair braided; doesn't work!
Deliberate hair-straightening; the conk and the jheri curl
The Conk, which originated in the 1920s, was an attempt by Black men to straighten their hair to make it look like that of White men. The primary ingredients used to straighten or relax the hair are: Sodium hydroxide (the conk) and Ammonium thioglycolate(the jheri curl). These chemical agents work against moisture, or in other words they dry the hair structure to the degree that it relaxes and the woolly hair looses its natural tendency to curl. This chemically straightened hair also cannot be reverted back to its original natural state. The only way to get rid of a conk is to allow it to grow out.
The primary process of embalming the corpse was the 'natron bath' wherein the corpse was completely covered in dry natron for a period of forty days. The chemical ingredients in natron are: Sodium carbonate; bicarbonate; sodium sulphate; and chloride. These chemical agents work against moisture, in fact, it was used to 'dry out' the body. (Kinda like making beef jerky.)
This, I think, is why you find these long haired-straight haired prognathous Negro mummies. Kememou mummies that are not "conked', like the one shown opening this topic, will invariably have braided hair.
Its more 'conk' than conspiracy, but conspiracy does factor in...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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So Maiherpra is Nubian based on leather loincloths?? Even if he is Nubian, as I've stated before and as Takruri has just pointed out, historical records show that he was a son of the pharaoh whether adopted or biological and as such a PRINCE OF EGYPT, hence him being buried in the Valley of the Kings which was reserved for Egyptian royals *only*.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Of course Lioness presented this as a foil to the idea that the mummifying process lightened and straightened the hair of Egyptian mummies with light non-nappy hair.
Of course. But of course since in the case of Maiherpra it is a wig, the wig wasn't embalmed with him. And of course the alteration of hair during the embalming process is more common with Egyptians whose hair is not kinky but more loose.
quote:Personally, I doubt all light and straight mummy hair is due to mummification processes.
I do too.
Which is exactly why the lyingass is now claiming that such hair is of "cold-adapted origins"! LOL
quote:SimpleGirl seems correct in so far as the hair being real and a wig. That the embalmers removed it from the corpse and made a wig of it remains guesswork unless she has evidence for such a procedure.
That's the problem. The only reason why folk like Simple-minded Girl believe that the wig had to be made from Maiherpra's own hair, is that the alternative (which is far more plausible) is Maiherpra simply bought the wig from the Egyptian market. This then means that kinky type hair was not uncommon in Egyptians for it to be sold as wigs in the market. Though I have heard the Euronut argument that such wigs could have only been made from imported Nubian hair, it still does not satisfactorily explain why they were so prevalent in Egypt or why even large AFRO ones were worn by Egyptian clergy! (See Below)
Djehuti did this girl have her hair artifically straightened? What is the genetic ancestry of the girl above? What tribe is she form? Do other members of her tribe have this type of hair?
"come on son, the girl is black step off" -bozo the clown
Some people would say she's black also. Fine , but she has also has some traits from her mother who is of Scottish, Irish and Italian descent
Djehuti, your methodology is the same unsupported picturism Mike's
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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DJ, great YouTube vid on museum piece ulitrichous haired wigs.
The "Nursery" was a place predominantly housed by offspring of foreign royalty. This was mentioned in connection to Kush, Kenset, and TaSeti/Wawat here.
If Hierakanpolis was a city known to be a favorite settling place for Nehesi and Nehesi nobility were known to marry Egyptian royalty and courtiers, why is it so hard to see a black skinned, nappy haired, patented "TaSeti briefs" wearing Child of the Nursery who's also titled King's Righthand Fan Bearer (as were many titled Viceroy of Kush, literally King's Son of Kush) as most possibly an Egyptian of Keshli lineage?
I mean plenty Nehesi were in Egypt but everytime someone is pointed out to be of Nehesi background a reactionary explanation of Eurocentric bias is proferred. So many nationalized Nehesu but they left no trace in monumental art?
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: So Maiherpra is Nubian based on leather loincloths??
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Diop seemed both puzzled and suspicious when he wrote;
quote:
It is customary to mention the straight hair of certain carefully chosen mummies, the only ones found in museums, to affirm that they represent a prototype of the White race, notwithstanding their prognathism. These mummies are displayed conspicuously in an attempt to prove the whiteness of the Egyptians. The very coarseness of their hair precludes acceptance of that contention. When such hair exists on the head of a mummy, it merely indicates the Dravidian type, in reality, whereas the prognathism and black skin-pigmented, not blackened by tar or any other product-excludes any idea of a white race. The meticulous selection process to which they have been subjected rules out any possibility of their being a prototype. -- The African Origin of Civilization
Diop was, of course, correct on two points:
1) Among the Cushitic peoples of northeast Africa, of which the Kememou formed a part, long hair and straight hair was common. It certainly wasn't unusual.
2) Given their tract record, it is plain common sense, to be skeptical of Western Egyptologists and their 'discoveries' and presentations.
But it is my opinion, that due to the process of mummification, it is doubtful that any really 'woolly-haired' mummies would ever be found, except for those who died with plaited hair, usually female. And I think that had Diop lived in Harlem, for example, prior to the 1960s, he probably would have understood why this would be.
Ancient Egyptian mummies were, inadvertently, submitted to a form of 'conking' and/or Jheri curl, and every Black person knows, you don't go in for this treatment with your hair braided; doesn't work! Deliberate hair-straightening; the conk and the jheri curl
The Conk, which originated in the 1920s, was an attempt by Black men to straighten their hair to make it look like that of White men. The primary ingredients used to straighten or relax the hair are: Sodium hydroxide (the conk) and Ammonium thioglycolate(the jheri curl). These chemical agents work against moisture, or in other words they dry the hair structure to the degree that it relaxes and the woolly hair looses its natural tendency to curl. This chemically straightened hair also cannot be reverted back to its original natural state. The only way to get rid of a conk is to allow it to grow out.
The primary process of embalming the corpse was the 'natron bath' wherein the corpse was completely covered in dry natron for a period of forty days. The chemical ingredients in natron are: Sodium carbonate; bicarbonate; sodium sulphate; and chloride. These chemical agents work against moisture, in fact, it was used to 'dry out' the body. (Kinda like making beef jerky.)
This, I think, is why you find these long haired-straight haired prognathous Negro mummies. Kememou mummies that are not "conked', like the one shown opening this topic, will invariably have braided hair.
Female mummies with braided hair
Kememou mummies - note the differing effects of salinization upon the unbraided hair, the longer (and more expensive) the process is done, the greater the effect...
quote:...You are correct...that the substance in the embalming material has been known to straighten hair, and over time mummy hair loses elasticity that hold hair into place. Still there are Nubians and modern Upper Egyptians with a wavy type hair that is not straight but is actually very thick. Europeans have wavy hair that is very thin and has a more rounded follicle as opposed to people of African descent.
"It is interesting to note that the oldest so-called naturally preserved body, or natural mummy of an Egyptian ever found - "Ginger"... This body (now in the British Museum), dating from 3400B.C. was almost perfectly preserved in a shallow grave in the hot, dry sands near Gebelein [Per Hathor] in Southern Upper Egypt"
A modern artificially(Henna?) colored Hair on an admixed East African(notice gray hair on the sides) and 'Ginger' 3400BCE Predynastic mummy.
Ginger's natural wheat to copper skin tone is well preserved. Blood pools mostly in muscle tissue after death and is restricted by the bent joints. Also note the greatest decay is in the large blood engorged muscle tissues. Ginger's hair color after death is probably the result of UV exposure and his natural brown hair would have been similar to the other Predynastic mummies -
Above is one of three predynastic AE naturally preserved mummies with straight to wavy brown/ginger hair hundreds of years before artificial mummification was invented. Are you people going to say natural processes transformed Nappy hair too.
Ausar AKA Professor Wally try moderating your and other sock puppets.
Posts: 644 | Registered: May 2010
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^ LOL Typical Euronut nonsense. Of course the Beja man as a northeast African who's closely related to the Egyptians would be "admixed" in your twisted mind, but then again so are the jet-black Nubians which you claim to be "60% caucasian".
Mind you, henna usually leaves a reddish hue not blonde and as I just pointed out hair among some black Africans does actually turn somewhat blonde in old age when pigment is lost before they turn gray or white. Speaking of which, the same process happens in decomposition of hair after a person's death where eumelanin is the first to be lost while phaelomelanin or light pigment may still be retained. This process explains 'Ginger' who as a Nile Valley African living in Chalcolithic times would never have been an actual red-head, you moron.
By the way, Ausar and Wally are two different people, dummy. The former is an ACTUAL EGYPTIAN from Upper Egypt and guess what, even openly acknowledges that he and his people are black and African. So get off that cockasian nonsense.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Djehuti did this girl have her hair artifically straightened? What is the genetic ancestry of the girl above? What tribe is she form? Do other members of her tribe have this type of hair?
"come on son, the girl is black step off" -bozo the clown
Some people would say she's black also. Fine , but she has also has some traits from her mother who is of Scottish, Irish and Italian descent
Djehuti, your methodology is the same unsupported picturism Mike's
LMAO And your methodology is nothing but unsubstantiated conjecture and turn-faced talking when proven wrong! Just look at your pathetic attempt at making a scientific claim unsupported by scientific evidence in the very issue of [url=hair texture! LOL You are a pathetic joke as well.
The girl whose photo I posted comes from rural Mali, so I highly doubt she went to a salon to attain that look. As for what lineages she carries, it's most likely the same as other Malians-- overwhelming to 100% African! She is not some African American let alone a biracial person like Alicia Keys so you can get off the b.s. also.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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You White racists are hopelessly pathetic. If you weren't previously informed that Alicia Keys' mother was white, you wouldn't have a clue...
It is something that, at least in my middle school biology class, we learned the fact that there were dominant and recessive genes; Black genes were dominant and White genes were recessive, which explains the nonchalant attitudes of Blacks towards having children with non-Blacks and the emotional fear by Whites (mostly male) with having children with Blacks: take ten million Swedes and ten million Nigerians, pair them equally, and in a generation or two, you would have an entirely Black population - simple middle school biology.
You want your children to resemble you!
This reality causes fear of racial suicide by the peoples who possess the recessive genes and have offspring with someone with the dominant genes which expresses itself in all aspects of their social behavior.
This type of behavior in its most extreme aspect results in racism, which is a serious psychosis...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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^ Actually it's not a matter of "dominant" vs. "recessive" genes at all. Phenotypic traits are determined by autosomal genes and ones in particular which are highly polygenic meaning one trait is controlled by multiple genes. Further The alleles for such traits are actually incomplete dominance and result in blending into intermediate features. The only traits that are actually dominant are the traits for hair and eye color which is usually dark.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: DJ, great YouTube vid on museum piece ulitrichous haired wigs.
The video I found from Myra's site. And yes, while there are ulitrichous hair pieces, we know the Egyptians had ulitrichous hair of their own.
But I suppose all of these were "Nubians" who are 60% caucasian anyway. LOL
quote:The "Nursery" was a place predominantly housed by offspring of foreign royalty. This was mentioned in connection to Kush, Kenset, and TaSeti/Wawat here.
If Hierakanpolis was a city known to be a favorite settling place for Nehesi and Nehesi nobility were known to marry Egyptian royalty and courtiers, why is it so hard to see a black skinned, nappy haired, patented "TaSeti briefs" wearing Child of the Nursery who's also titled King's Righthand Fan Bearer (as were many titled Viceroy of Kush, literally King's Son of Kush) as most possibly an Egyptian of Keshli lineage?
I mean plenty Nehesi were in Egypt but everytime someone is pointed out to be of Nehesi background a reactionary explanation of Eurocentric bias is proferred. So many nationalized Nehesu but they left no trace in monumental art?
It's not that I didn't accept Nehesi being nationalized, but rather I was very weary of the claim that just because an Egyptian has a very dark complexion then that person had to be of 'Nubian' ancestry. You even start to see this conjecture as it regards to Tiye due to her very dark complexion.
What I also find interesting is that the Egyptians were so quick to intermarry and assimilate Nubians into the royal family as opposed to other foreign peoples, least of all Asiatics.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Female mummies with braided hair
What's funny is that the lady on the right was admitted by mad Mathilda as having 'kinky' hair.
Apparently some things don't change in Africa.
Unless the Euronuts want to claim such hairstyles as Eurasian caucasoid in origin(?)! LMAOPosts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Speaking of mummies and their hair, a poster once made a comparison with some famous Egyptian mummies and living Africans today.
quote:Originally posted by ameny-ra:
No doubt the Euronuts will scream that all these Africans above are 60% to 80% "caucasoid". LOLPosts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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And no doubt you'll bitch whine and complain to no end that this was a 100% black African woman.lol....It's hard to defend an all black Egypt with images like this isn't it? lol
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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^ Not really. The hair of the mummy was already discussed on this thread as well as others.
As for the actual skull of the Elder Lady, here is what scientists who examined it actually said:
"[The Elder Lady] First identified as Queen Tiye The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism"
X-Ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies, edited by James E. Harris and Edward F. Wente (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1980)
But of course the only one to bitch and whine is you, no doubt. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Have you not seen the mummies from South America that also have brown Hair??
For you to use eyeballing as a legit way of telling who and who isn't Black is shameful.
Reread this thread and you will see that your Ideas about the mummy is just wrong. Djehuti showed you a taste of what scientists had to say about the very same Mummy you posted. Whos words should people believe, You or the scientists.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Personally, I doubt all light and straight mummy hair is due to mummification processes.
.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Further proof of the quoted statement is Maiherpre whose face and mask don't match.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: cartonnage masks are idealized images and not actual portraits.
alTakruri, when you say doubt all light and straight mummy hair is due to mummification processes I assume that you are saying in some cases the person who was mummified actually had light and straight hair. So if is some of them actually had straight light hair (excluding Hyksos and late dynasties) do you think this is evidence that some Egyptians who were mummified:
a) had ancestry from people out of Africa
b) definitely had ancestry from out of Africa
c) there is no chance they had ancestry out of Africa, their straight light hair was completely indigenous to Africa
I find c) harder to believe because you don't find African people on the whole latitude including the Horn, Nigeria, Cameroon, Southern Chad etc. you don't find straight hair all along here. You find it in the horn in a location where it seems obvious, the next door neighbor to Arabia and a long history of trade. Coon had noted admixture in those horn regions, despite his racism, it does not seem that this admixture with Arabians he would have totally made up. Tribes of the Darood Clan say they have Yemeni heritage anyway.
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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^ Your premise that wavy (actually) hair among Africans is the result of non-African genetic input has been debunked in your own thread here sweety. There are actually people with wavy hair in West Africa in Mali as shown by the girl with long wavy locks I posted as well as Nigeria since wavy hair is also not uncommon among Fula people of northern Nigeria. I also mentioned the Bilma people of Uganda who are stereotypically "negroid" in facial form but have wavy hair as well and they live right on the equator.
You have yet to answer Kalonji's queries.
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: explain how straight hair is indicative of ancestry from the Arabian peninsule, when Amhara's with sometimes as much as 40% J haplogroup, actually have lesser incidences of straight, wavy and curly hair than Somali's have.
quote:Kalonji further stated Your model fails to explain why your "cold adapted" Tasmanians had higher incidences of whooly hair. (especially considering that Tasmania is well below the subtropics in a temperate climate that is closer to cold than the Mediterranean!)
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: [QB] ^ Your premise that wavy (actually) hair among Africans is the result of non-African genetic input has been debunked in your own thread here sweety. There are actually people with wavy hair in West Africa in Mali as shown by the girl with long wavy locks I posted as well as Nigeria since wavy hair is also not uncommon among Fula people of northern Nigeria.
Djehuti, question, why do you assume that some people you posted pictures of don't have any non-African genetic input simply because you posted pictures of them? question" how do you know that?
Straight haired Fula people are a tiny minority within the Fula population. The Fula are estimated to have West Eurasian haplotypes such as J1b, U5, H at a total of 8.1%
Yes, much less than East Africa but 8.1% does not equal 0%
8.1% Eurasian = 8.1% Eurasian
Do you really believe everybody in Africa with relatively dark skin always has 100% African ancestry? Is that what you think?
The fact that straight haired people within the Nomadic Fula people are not the norm should tell you something.
If you look at the ancestry of this subset, the straight haired population of Fulani, you might very well find a much greater percentage of Eurasian ancestry in them than in the general population. -an ancestry possibly responsible for the straight hair.
For example, one could come up with a percentage of people with Irish ancestry in the United States.
However if you looked at only red haired people you would find a much greater percentage to Irish.
Do you follow what I'm saying? A general percentage might not apply to persons out of the norm or of small subset groups. This is especially the case in Nomadic people. If you have a straight haired person and a kinky haired person in the same tribe it would not be surprising if these individuals had significantly different ancestry even though they merge into a broader average. Because if you focus on a distinct trait then you need data which also focuses on people who only have that trait. Does this mean that given person has Eurasian ancestry? Not necessarily. What it means is this is a possibility.
You simply do not know the background of the people you are posting. -or even if their hair is treated with an older straightening method or if dyes are used, or if reddish henna is the only type of dye used. The Beja man looks odd in that his beard is grayish white and has no trace of that golden tan color. if his natural color had turned the grayish white of his beard it would be easy to color with a much less strong dye compared to a younger person using a dye to alter the color of black hair. It could also be a natural bleaching agent. Also the girl, she has Dravidian qualities in her facial proportions as well as a large portion of African.
Even in these rare African coarse wavy examples you do not find the type of flat laying hair many Chinese people have or the type of thin straight flat laying hair many Europeans and some Aboriginal Australians have. Why is this?
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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"The whole body of Queen Henuttawy's mummy was colored in yellow, while the cheeks and lips were painted red to improve her appearance. The head is adorned with an artificial wig made of strands of black string; she was given stone eyes."
Its clear that the artificial wig done in such a fashion represents kinky / nappy / wooly hair texture.
Posts: 535 | From: From the Darkest of the Abyss | Registered: Apr 2010
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^ Of course, but then the Euronuts will argue that this is merely proof of "cockasians" incorporating "negro" hair into their own styles. LOL
quote:Originally posted by the lyingass: Djehuti, question, why do you assume that some people you posted pictures of don't have any non-African genetic input simply because you posted pictures of them? question" how do you know that?
Question, why do you ALWAYS assume that such people have non-African genetic input simply because you stereotype pure Africans into a narrowly defined look?? Question, why do you always do that??
quote:Straight haired Fula people are a tiny minority within the Fula population. The Fula are estimated to have West Eurasian haplotypes such as J1b, U5, H at a total of 8.1%
Yes, much less than East Africa but 8.1% does not equal 0%
8.1% Eurasian = 8.1% Eurasian
Actually those mitochondrial lineages are Paleolithic in origin, most of which date to a time when Africans just started to colonize Eurasia, so I don't see how those haplotypes are proof of any actual Eurasian origin. LOL I also find it funny how you use mitochondrial lineages instead of Y-chromosomal ones. Is it because you found out that Fula carry typical West African E1b1a at 100%?
Second of all, 100% - 8.1% is 91.9% which still leaves the vast majority. Though I don't know what haplotypes have to do with phenotypic traits that are determined by genes from autosomal chromosomes which by the way were found to be 100% African in affinity!
quote:Do you really believe everybody in Africa with relatively dark skin always has 100% African ancestry? Is that what you think?
Do you really believe that everybody in Europe with relatively light skin is always has 100% Eurasian ancestry? Is that what YOU think?
Because if you do you are dead wrong as usual, since ONE-THIRD of Europeans have African ancestry!
quote:The fact that straight haired people within the Nomadic Fula people are not the norm should tell you something.
By your logic then a European person with very curly hair even if it is blonde or red in contrast to the majority lank haired European must have foreign ancestry then.
quote:If you look at the ancestry of this subset, the straight haired population of Fulani, you might very well find a much greater percentage of Eurasian ancestry in them than in the general population. -an ancestry possibly responsible for the straight hair.
Nope! The following reasons I have stated above.
quote:For example, one could come up with a percentage of people with Irish ancestry in the United States.
However if you looked at only red haired people you would find a much greater percentage to Irish.
No, because the majority of Irish people have dark hair. The majority of red-heads are actually found in Scotland.
quote:Do you follow what I'm saying? A general percentage might not apply to persons out of the norm or of small subset groups. This is especially the case in Nomadic people. If you have a straight haired person and a kinky haired person in the same tribe it would not be surprising if these individuals had significantly different ancestry even though they merge into a broader average. Because if you focus on a distinct trait then you need data which also focuses on people who only have that trait. Does this mean that given person has Eurasian ancestry? Not necessarily. What it means is this is a possibility.
I get what you're saying. The problem is what you're saying is WRONG and inaccurate. You obviously don't have a clue about genetics let alone statistical values used in determining those values. And again, all of those lineages you claim to be Eurasian originated during a time when Africans have just begun to colonise Eurasia.
quote:You simply do not know the background of the people you are posting. -or even if their hair is treated with an older straightening method or if dyes are used, or if reddish henna is the only type of dye used. The Beja man looks odd in that his beard is grayish white and has no trace of that golden tan color. if his natural color had turned the grayish white of his beard it would be easy to color with a much less strong dye compared to a younger person using a dye to alter the color of black hair. It could also be a natural bleaching agent. Also the girl, she has Dravidian qualities in her facial proportions as well as a large portion of African.
LOL The background of the people in the pictures I post is that they come from rural Africa. You love to attribute features from East Asians to Dravidians but never Africans? Why is that?? Why do you always assume Africans to look a specific way but not other populations??
quote:Even in these rare African coarse wavy examples you do not find the type of flat laying hair many Chinese people have or the type of thin straight flat laying hair many Europeans and some Aboriginal Australians have. Why is this?
I never claimed Egyptians or any Africans to have the exact same flat straight texture as Chinese. Again, the texture is wavy. Why do you assume that Aboriginal Australians' hair is cold-adapted when all their other features are tropically adapted and their ancestors are not known to have ever lived in a cold environment??
Why do Amhara of Ethiopia have more Eurasian ancestry than Somalis but have more kinky hair, but Somalis who have close to no Eurasian ancestry at all have more wavy hair??
You ask silly questions which I've answered, now try answering my more valid questions and MAYBE we can get somewhere.
Tell me, why do you deny African phenotypic diversity when it is an anthropological FACT that Africans possess the greatest genetic diversity due to being the oldest population since humankind originated in Africa??! Why oh why??
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Djehuti, let me know when you answer all of these these questions instead of answering some of them with another question
What you think I assume is irrelevant to a question posed to you, you are using distraction tactics
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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^ LOL I gave valid answers to your silly questions. Now how about you provide answers to my valid questions??
The only one using distraction tactics is YOU. You distract from the obvious conclusion of indigenous African diversity. Let me know how that's going for you. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti the Mongreloid: Unless of course the simple minded girl wants to argue for the presence of auburn hair amongst ancient Peruvians.
^ Back during the 1930s, Nazis used such mummies above as "proof" of Aryans founding the Inca civilization! LOL
No doubt Hammered-brains and Simple-minded girl have the same mentality about ancient Egypt.
There is some evidence that Peru had light-haired people. You need to do some research before spouting off.lol
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti the Filopino half breed Figga: Unless of course the simple minded girl wants to argue for the presence of auburn hair amongst ancient Peruvians.
^ Back during the 1930s, Nazis used such mummies above as "proof" of Aryans founding the Inca civilization! LOL
No doubt Hammered-brains and Simple-minded girl have the same mentality about ancient Egypt.
There is some evidence that Peru had light-haired people. You need to do some research before spouting off.lol
Dumbuti or Kalonji the teenage Figga doesn't realize that malnutrition and disease can discolor hair too. Notice no one has an intelligent counter reply to my prior post. Running scared and frantic from topic to topic with diversionary off topic rants. Posts: 644 | Registered: May 2010
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Of the five other mummies dug up with BM EA 32751 only two others retained hair. The color of their hair indeed was brown as noted in the A mummy once dubbed Ginger thread. But this thread is supposedly about the hair/wig of Maiherpre's mummy.
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: Ginger's hair color after death is probably the result of UV exposure and his natural brown hair would have been similar to the other Predynastic mummies -
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Wally wrote: African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent who do not chemically alter their hair texture.
Bettyboo wrote: The word nappy is Germanic and it comes from the word 'nap' which means tightly coiled or wiry. Nappy is an english word Germanic in origin to describe any surface including hair that forms a nap.
al~Takruri wrote: Nap is used in quality of wool or fabrics with a pile like terrycloth. Brits call diapers nappies. Smooth and nappy are juxtaposable terms.
quote:Woolens are often brushed to raise the ends of the wool fibers in a soft, fluffy nap above the surface of the cloth. Naps range from the lightly brushed surfaces of a flannel to the deep-pile of fleecy coatings. Deep naps are produced by passing the fabric over cylinders covered with fine metal wires and small hooks. These hooks pull fiber ends to the surface to create the nap.
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary Main Entry: nap [tertiary entry] Function: noun Etymology: Middle English noppe, from Middle Dutch, flock of wool, nap Date: 15th century : a hairy or downy surface (as on a fabric)
Me? I love my nappy, notty, kinky, coilly, woolly hair. And describing it as what it is will never be deragatory as long as I love myself and the way nature blessed me with hair of the helix. I reject the idea that Euros label all to do with my phenotypical features as deragatory or bad. I don't seek their approval or kowtow to their value system. Too bad for you who does.
Capice?
End of pointless distraction from attention starved troller.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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alTakruri wrote: ----------------------------------- African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent who do not chemically alter their hair texture. -----------------------------------
Er um, then why did you forego coiled, curly, woolly, or bushy instead of your white master's traditional definition that was given to you?
Also since when did African American equal the definition of your quote above?
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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NonProphet wrote: ------------------------------------------- hair on an admixed East African(notice gray hair on the sides) -------------------------------------------
Provide evidence that man is so called "admixed". Eyeball anthropology won't cut it and will be dismissed.
We're waiting.............................
Folks, next he will be telling everyone that Orlando Jones, Nick Cannon, and Charles Payne are mixed because of their hair. LOL!
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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And can you provide evidence for these 'Nordic' types of the Amazon, other than hearsay and legends that is?? Surely if an ancient blonde, white-skinned, people were present in that part of the world let alone producing a culture there than EVERYONE would have heard about it. Yet this is not the case at all.
Let me know when you have actual scientific evidence of these 'Aryans' of the Amazon that the Nazis have fantasized about.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by NonThinker: Dumbuti or Kalonji the teenage Figga doesn't realize that malnutrition and disease can discolor hair too.
Of course we do, moron. When a person suffers from malnutrition or some disease, then it is more difficult for hair to produce the pigment eumelanin, but then again the same can be said for melanin in skin as well leading to paler complexions. Yet what do you think happens once a person actually expires and stops receiving nutrients altogether let alone have cells that no longer function, you numskull??
quote:Notice no one has an intelligent counter reply to my prior post. Running scared and frantic from topic to topic with diversionary off topic rants.
LOL Just as delusional as ever I see. Your notions of us being scared of your nonsense is as hilarious as your 60% white Nubians. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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And can you provide evidence for these 'Nordic' types of the Amazon, other than hearsay and legends that is?? Surely if an ancient blonde, white-skinned, people were present in that part of the world let alone producing a culture there than EVERYONE would have heard about it. Yet this is not the case at all.
Let me know when you have actual scientific evidence of these 'Aryans' of the Amazon that the Nazis have fantasized about.
Show me where I said they were Nordic types. Spouting off again about something never said and never implied.
You did get your ass handed to you again though. And I see where you edited your post.lol
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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^ Well how about producing actual scientific evidence of blonde haired, pale skinned, natives of the Amazon? Can you at least do that, since you obviously are incapable of doing the same concerning Egypt and the Nile Valley?
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: This topic is a ruse, a way to insinuate and repeat a false notion...
True. The case has been discussed repeatedly and closed all over the internet. The point is chemicals have changed the bond structure of the hair on the mummies so that we don't know when or if they had the hair of wavy or woolly haired Ethiopians i.e. blacks. And since it is already known ancient Egyptians have been absorbing non -African foreigners since the Old kingdom (though they remained a homogeneous group identifiably African group related to Sudanese up until the Ptolemaic period) I'm not sure what the point is of showing that natural untreated hair of Egyptians was "nappy" - something most of us with sense here already KNOW.
I guess since we have posters here with an agenda that enjoy going back and forth pseudoanthropology search forums and Egyptsearch forum we are again stuck here having to read through the same old same old - NON-SENSE. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: [QB] This topic is a ruse, a way to insinuate and repeat a false notion...
Diop seemed both puzzled and suspicious when he wrote;
It is customary to mention the straight hair of certain carefully chosen mummies, the only ones found in museums, to affirm that they represent a prototype of the White race, notwithstanding their prognathism. These mummies are displayed conspicuously in an attempt to prove the whiteness of the Egyptians. The very coarseness of their hair precludes acceptance of that contention. When such hair exists on the head of a mummy, it merely indicates the Dravidian type, in reality, whereas the prognathism and black skin-pigmented, not blackened by tar or any other product-excludes any idea of a white race. The meticulous selection process to which they have been subjected rules out any possibility of their being a prototype. -- The African Origin of Civilization
posted
^ Why oh why does the dumb lyingass always try to compare Egyptians (Africans) with Eurasians to prove her point?? That's the better question.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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A modern artificially(Henna?) colored Hair on an admixed East African(notice gray hair on the sides) and 'Ginger' 3400BCE Predynastic mummy.
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