quote:yeah but what about the ancient painting from Cleopatra's Tomb?
A forensic team recently reconstructed Cleopatra based on the lost portrait found in 1818 from Hadrian’s Villa outside Rome:
[/QB][/QUOTE]
What did Cleopatra really look like? On the front cover is a replica of the original painting of Cleopatra, commissioned by Octavian Augustus on August 12, 30 B.C
posted
^ You made that same claim about Cleopatra before here. Funny how your only source for claim is a white supremacist website. Anyway, we have evidence in the form of Cleopatra's sister Arsinoe, that they are of mixed black ancestry.
And this thread is not about Cleopatra or any depiction there of, but of straight hair of northeast Africans, specifically Nubians and Egyptians.
Posts: 26506 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: The picture of the three men was just an example. Its irrelevant that the lines on the edges may indicate that they were wearing wigs or headdresses, because we know Egyptian wigs and headdresses often imitated or looked like real hairstyles (nemes, khat headdress, cap crown, fake beard). You can easily see the same hairstyles of the three men in natural form on the various reproductions of the so called table of nations and various 18th dynasty nobles (e.g., Sennefer, Nakht, Ahmose, Khnumhotep). My point is that the images that were posted weren't afros, and that they would have looked similar to what the khat headdress looks like. This is a more appropriate comparison than the bob hairstyle, which I had just mentioned for the lack of a better term. The most prominent difference between the khat headdress and the hairstyle in question is probably that the former usually isn't depicted as covering the ears of the subject, while the latter does. Note that the khat hairdress also comes in 'braided' form.
Oh, I see what you're talking about now. You are referring to the hairstyles where the hair looks sack-like where it bulges in the lower back and not exactly an all around afro. You compare the look to the khat headdress and I see the resemblance except the khat has a tail or 'braid' in the back.
Actually now that I think of it, although I see no images of Egyptian men's hair being exactly like the khat with a braided tail hanging down the back, I have seen this exact styling of braids among Nilotic peoples like the Kalenjin and Luo people of Kenya. I've actually seen photos of this in a website some years ago comparing the hairstyles to the khat headdress of Egyptians but I can no longer find it!
Posts: 26506 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Funny how your only source for claim is a white supremacist website.Anyway, we have evidence in the form of Cleopatra's sister Arsinoe, that they are of mixed black ancestry.
I wrote a paper on it which I submitted late 2012. Extracts I posted here several months back. I own one of the originals of John Sartain's pamphlets, and i've been trying to raise awareness about this for several years. The only reason few people take attention to it is because of leukophobia. I'm sure if Cleopatra was painted dark skinned with afro-type hair, archaeologists would be all over it.
The portrait is described in this leaflet by John Sartain published in 1818:
The portrait was once housed in a gallery and observed by hundreds to thousands of people.
Obviously this portrait is important, because it is the original painting of Cleopatra, commissioned by Octavian Augustus on August 12, 30 B.C. It was painted by the artist Timomachus.
Why people pay it no attention is because it shows Cleopatra as blonde, milky skinned and blue eyed - traits that are now demonised, and you can't even discuss them in academia. Professor Wolfram Nagel of Berlin University for example was fired from his position in a journal for just discussing the possibility that the Indo-Europeans could have blonde hair and blue eyes -
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: The picture of the three men was just an example. Its irrelevant that the lines on the edges may indicate that they were wearing wigs or headdresses, because we know Egyptian wigs and headdresses often imitated or looked like real hairstyles (nemes, khat headdress, cap crown, fake beard). You can easily see the same hairstyles of the three men in natural form on the various reproductions of the so called table of nations and various 18th dynasty nobles (e.g., Sennefer, Nakht, Ahmose, Khnumhotep). My point is that the images that were posted weren't afros, and that they would have looked similar to what the khat headdress looks like. This is a more appropriate comparison than the bob hairstyle, which I had just mentioned for the lack of a better term. The most prominent difference between the khat headdress and the hairstyle in question is probably that the former usually isn't depicted as covering the ears of the subject, while the latter does. Note that the khat hairdress also comes in 'braided' form.
Oh, I see what you're talking about now. You are referring to the hairstyles where the hair looks sack-like where it bulges in the lower back and not exactly an all around afro. You compare the look to the khat headdress and I see the resemblance except the khat has a tail or 'braid' in the back.
Actually now that I think of it, although I see no images of Egyptian men's hair being exactly like the khat with a braided tail hanging down the back, I have seen this exact styling of braids among Nilotic peoples like the Kalenjin and Luo people of Kenya. I've actually seen photos of this in a website some years ago comparing the hairstyles to the khat headdress of Egyptians but I can no longer find it!
Yes, it would have resembled a khat hair dress, but note my crucial comment about their unexposed ears. It probably wouldn't have been a sack (but perhaps styled like one in most depictions) given the fact that it usually covers their ears with a layer of hair. In this sense, it would have been more like a bob hairstyle. When the edges are rounded up to look like a sack in depictions (which is the hairstyle you'll see most often), it looks more like a khat headdress than a bob hairstyle, but in my view, those examples (including the variations where their hair is braided and layered) are just variations of the same hairstyle.
posted
In genetics the traits we "see" are as a result of random changes at the level of the DNA.At the level of the DNA the nucleotides form a triple codon for each amino acid that make up the protein.Wavy hair,kinky hair etc is as a result of DNA recombination,which is also subject to RNA editing.Therefore even now there would be "outliers" in every Geographic group where hair[protein] is concern.
Posts: 121 | From: Guyana | Registered: Mar 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Ponsford: In genetics the traits we "see" are as a result of random changes at the level of the DNA.At the level of the DNA the nucleotides form a triple codon for each amino acid that make up the protein.Wavy hair,kinky hair etc is as a result of DNA recombination,which is also subject to RNA editing.Therefore even now there would be "outliers" in every Geographic group where hair[protein] is concern.
Not true. Racial traits [prior to large scale migrations] were geographically circumscribed, that includes hair texture. We can still look at racial adaptations and trace where they arose. Straight and wavy hair texture are northern latitude adaptations to low UV - the same way skin depigmentated at those same borealized latitudes. Pale skin for example didn't evolve in Africa -
Its funny that the Afrocentrics have no problem with admitting pale skin is a non-African adaptation [even old Zaharan who promotes the myth "Blacks" have the most phenotypic diversity, admits they don't have white skin], but when it comes to hair texture they apply an anti-adaptation logic. Why though accept skin adaptation but not hair adaptation?
The answer lies in the African-American self-hatred surrounding nappy hair (see Chris Rock's documentary Good Hair), which they despise. So what better way to deny their wooly hair, other than clinging to an internet fantasy that a variation of "Blacks" have natural straight hair in the first place.
If the Afronuts were at least consistent they would be claiming "Blacks" adapted pale milky skin. If you're going to deny racial adaptations and biology -you might as well deny all of them...
Posts: 873 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2012
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posted
Modo-face, you can keep reinventing your wording and reformulating your arguments. Truth is, you've been refuted since over two thread pages ago.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: It's in the same UV cluster
It’s also in the same cluster as indigenous South Asians and Southeast Asians, many of whom have straighter hair than Europeans. What is your point?
You can keep posting ''new evidence'' all you want. All you're doing is proving your habit to flip flop and knock down strawmen. Then there is the fact that other UV maps don't depict Northern Africa as in the same UV range as Equatorial Africa:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Its not hard to imagine that hair type in more Northern regions (relative to Yemen) [e.g., the Eastern Sahara] could easily produce more looser hair than what's visible on the head of that guy you've posted.
What's next?
quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: Swenet's "scientific" explanation for the in-situ theory of Africa wavy hair was posted a few pages back:
"its just a hunch of mine".
^This is a deliberate lie and distortion. What I was referring to in that post is something I don't necessarily subscribe to as much. I stated this in the same post you're paraphrasing. You're a fraud, and you don't shun blatant lying. No Euronut does, for that matter.
quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: Its funny that the Afrocentrics have no problem with admitting pale skin is a non-African adaptation
Its funny that you keep posting examples of Africans who live in regions they're not fully adapted to, as evidence that they can't have those adaptations. You did this with Nilotes, you did this with Southern Africans and Australian Aboriginals (by posting and defending Noback et al 2011). Now you're doing it with that skin pigmentation map, even though the extant black populations in the high latitudes of Africa (e.g., Southern Africa) are relatively recent immigrants into the area. You then unfairly contrast them with Europeans who have lived in Low UV Europe for 40ky. You're a FRAUD, and on the few occasions that you're not lying or making up sh!t, your arguments consist of logical fallacies.
Posts: 8807 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: [QB] ^Its just one of my hunches, which I don't necessarily subscribe to as much as I use to. Usually I just explain it in terms of clinal distribution of ecological factors, without necessarily trying to pin it down to a single selective pressure.
Whatever caused Levantines and Arabs to have it, would caused long term inhabitants of the Sahara to have it too.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: What I was referring to in that post is something I don't necessarily subscribe to as much. I stated this in the same post you're paraphrasing. You're a fraud, and you don't shun blatant lying. No Euronut does, for that matter.
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric:
Thanks for the feedback, guys, and I'm pleasantly surprised that it has been relatively positive so far. I was expecting a lot more ridicule for my connecting the modern US Presidency to early Nubian kingship. It's not an intuitive one.
Does anyone else think there might be a connection between Nile Valley kingship and that seen in the Near East and Europe? I must admit that it was mostly a hunch of mine.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: We may be confusing the issue. The issue isn’t that there was phenotypic diversity within Africa(including hair). Of course there was. Africans had 150,000yrs head start to develop the diversity. The issue is did that diversity LEAVE Africa. And what are the phenotypic traits of the humans that left Africa. Most, if not all, researchers agree that a fraction of the diversity(if any) left Africa. Of course the humans that left looked nothing like contemporary humans either within or external to Africa. But we can generalize and say 1. They probably looked very similar. Why? 2. They were dark. Why? 3. They probably had wavy, straight hair. Maybe with so-called aquiline nose. Why?
Why? Evolution101. The environment gives a good indication of what inhabitants looked liked.
Soo o o o , is the Horn a tropical, forested region? Was theTwa one the” diverse” group that migrated to the Anderman Islands and then went on to New Guinea LOL! Tic !Toc! Tic! Toc!
You can always tell when someone has a scientific or technical background. Look at how they analyze the issue.
There is no texture even indicated on these. You can't tell what the hair type is.
Are the people at right waering some king of white cloths on their heads or is it hair? If it's hair, they don't look like old men so wouldn't it be blond color if it was hair?.
Same problem, this type of art does not have enough detail to tell what the hair type is
Look at Hesire:
^^^^ It's an afro right?
Yeah but this is also Hesire, same wood panel series
-the point is you can't tell what type his natural hair was.
quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: ^ "HAIR TYPE, FORM, AND COLOR Hair is composed of keratinized cells tightly cemented together (Mayr, 1970). Humans are closely categorized in accordance with hair color, type, and form-for example, wavy, straight, irregular, or spiral. These features serve descriptive, rather than causal, pur-poses. It seems the degree of hair coil coincides closely with the extent of tightness of the keratinized cells. Hair tends to coil less away from the tropics. The extent of coiling appears to be correlated with humid/hot ver-sus dry/cold binary opposition. Thence, hair tends to coil more in hot and humid Florida and less in cooler and less humid California."
Variation within the Black Human Race-Paleoecological Sketches to the Nonstarted Journal of Black Studies, Vol. 31, No. 6 (Jul., 2001), pp. 812-834
Lol. So you even have most Afrocentric journals even agreeing straight-wavy hair is a cold northern latitude (non-African) adaptation.
Apart from Zaharan and Swenet behind their keyboards, no one else is claiming "Blacks have straight hair". Not even the Journal of Black Studies...
You are debunking yourself once more.
Since we have already reviewed the climatic conditions of Northeast Africa. And besides that, which group of Africans did the study?
quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: Pre-Dynastic Egypt:
Wiercinski A. (1961). "The racial analysis of predynastic populations in Egypt". [In:] Atti del I° Congresso di Scienze. Antropolog. Etnologie di Folklore. Torino. pp. 431–440.
Wiercinski A. (1965). "The analysis of racial structure of early dynastic populations in Egypt". Mater i Prace Antropol. 71. pp. 3–48.
It's outdated obsolete nonsense. And on top of that, he is associated with the Nazis and eugenics. What outcome could we expect? It's funny how you think it's to be taken seriously. LOL
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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Somalis are predominantly African in ancestry yet even those individuals with alleged ‘Eurasian’ ancestry are no different from other Somalis in that they exhibit super-tropical adaptations, so why would their hair form be an exception?
______^^^^ Djehootie's right Somalis are predominantly African, see the African percentage
That's not true. Notice how you estimate, and don't have any Hg sequence and frequency to back up.
E1b1b1a. M78
quote: The Northeast Africa-based E1b1b1a subclade is defined by SNP M78. Somalia, Sudan and Egypt are among the present day countries with very high frequencies (60-90%) of the E1b1b1a M78 subclade. The STR data also support its origin in this area with a TMRCA estimated at 14-23 kya.
E1b1b1a1b. V32
quote:The E1b1b1a1b (V32) subclade is a descendant of E1b1b1a1 (V12). E1b1b1a1b/V32 is highest in Somalia (47-75%), Sudan (52%) and Ethiopia (40%). All these chromosomes detected to date fall into the East African M78 g microsatellite cluster, which is associated with Cushitic (Afro-Asiatic) language groups in Somalia, Ethiopia and Kenya. There is some notion that the Great Rift Valley acted as a barrier to isolate language and genetic groups in this region. This subclade is abundant in Somalia, although the STR diversity is rather low. This data would suggest that the E1b1b1a1b/V32 Somali population was shaped by a founder effect, somewhat recently.
E1b1b1e. V6
quote:his somewhat rare haplogroup, E1b1b1e (V6), has only been observed in East Africa with the most appreciable levels seen in Ethiopia (4-17%). Kenya and Somalia also harbor a moderate frequency (5%) of this subclade.
The famous man above is "halve East African". Thou they say his mama wasn't fully white. Never the less.
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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Ancient Egyptians used 'hair gel' Mummy analysis finds that fat-based product held styles in place.
Mummy analysis finds that fat-based product held styles in place.
quote:The ancient Egyptians styled their hair using a fat-based 'gel', an analysis of mummies has found. The researchers behind the study say that the Egyptians used the product to ensure that their style stayed in place in both life and death.
Natalie McCreesh, an archaeological scientist from the KNH Centre for Biomedical Egyptology at the University of Manchester, UK, and her colleagues studied hair samples taken from 18 mummies. The oldest is around 3,500 years old, but most were excavated from a cemetery in the Dakhleh Oasis in the Western Desert, and date from Greco-Roman times, around 2,300 years ago.
They include males and females ranging in age from 4 to 58 years old. Some were artificially mummified, whereas others were preserved naturally by the dry sand in which they were buried.
Microscopy using light and electrons revealed that nine of the mummies had hair coated in a mysterious fat-like substance. The researchers used gas chromatography–mass spectrometry to separate out the different molecules in the samples, and found that the coating contained biological long-chain fatty acids including palmitic acid and stearic acid. The results are published in the Journal of Archaeological Science1.
McCreesh thinks that the fatty coating is a styling product that was used to set hair in place. It was found on both natural and artificial mummies, so she believes that it was a beauty product during life as well as a key part of the mummification process.
The resins and embalming materials used to prepare the artificially mummified bodies were not found in the hair samples, suggesting that the hair was protected during embalming and then styled separately.
"Maybe they paid special attention to the hair because they realized that it didn't degrade as much as the rest of the body," says McCreesh. The product was found on both male and female mummies, showing that both sexes cared about their eternal hairdo.
High-status hairstyles
John Taylor, head of the Egyptian mummy collection at the British Museum in London, describes the idea as feasible. "Hair was a status symbol," he says — elaborate styles signified high standing.
Egyptian texts and art contain no mention of hair products, he says, although ancient Egyptians are known to have used scented oils and lotions on their bodies.
"The best clue comes from Egyptian wigs," says Taylor. "The hair is often coated with beeswax." Such wigs, which have been found in Egyptian tombs, would have been expensive and probably restricted to the nobility, says McCreesh. "The majority of the mummies I've looked at have their own hair," she says.
The Egyptians might have also used beeswax on their own hair. The wax contains fatty acids such as palmitic acid, although McCreesh says that her results so far don't show any evidence of beeswax. "It was a fat, but we can't tell you what type of fat," she says.
ADVERTISEMENT She points out that beeswax would be difficult to wash out of hair, compared to, say, animal fat. She now plans to analyse the samples further, to try to pin down the hair-gel recipe.
The mummies' hairstyles varied, both long and short, with curls particularly popular; metal implements resembling curling tongs have been found in several tombs. Once the hair was styled, the fatty gunge would have held the individuals' curls in place.
"You can almost imagine them when they were alive," says McCreesh, "tending their hair and putting their curls in."
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Djehootie's right Somalis are predominantly African, see the African percentage
That's not true. Notice how you estimate, and don't have any Hg sequence and frequency to back up.
You say the above statement "Somalis are predominantly African" is not true that Somalis are predominantly Non-African
Your sequence is based on M215+. And you are a fraud!
E1b1b1a. M78
quote: The Northeast Africa-based E1b1b1a subclade is defined by SNP M78. Somalia, Sudan and Egypt are among the present day countries with very high frequencies (60-90%) of the E1b1b1a M78 subclade. The STR data also support its origin in this area with a TMRCA estimated at 14-23 kya.
E1b1b1a1b. V32
quote:The E1b1b1a1b (V32) subclade is a descendant of E1b1b1a1 (V12). E1b1b1a1b/V32 is highest in Somalia (47-75%), Sudan (52%) and Ethiopia (40%). All these chromosomes detected to date fall into the East African M78 g microsatellite cluster, which is associated with Cushitic (Afro-Asiatic) language groups in Somalia, Ethiopia and Kenya. There is some notion that the Great Rift Valley acted as a barrier to isolate language and genetic groups in this region. This subclade is abundant in Somalia, although the STR diversity is rather low. This data would suggest that the E1b1b1a1b/V32 Somali population was shaped by a founder effect, somewhat recently.
E1b1b1e. V6
quote:This somewhat rare haplogroup, E1b1b1e (V6), has only been observed in East Africa with the most appreciable levels seen in Ethiopia (4-17%). Kenya and Somalia also harbor a moderate frequency (5%) of this subclade.
As a continent it actually has the least climatic diversity in this aspect. While the Americas and Eurasia span the entire UV spectrum, Africa is merely confined to a very small UV index range [so much for "African diversity"...]
Africa: 7 - 11 Americas: 1 - 11 Eurasia: 1 - 11
UV Index Map:
Skin pigmentation like hair texture is linked to UV index.
As you can see Africa has the least native diversity in both hair texture and skin colour - just look at the map. West Eurasia is UV 2 - 11, Africa is only 7 - 11. O dear... lol
Posts: 873 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2012
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posted
^Your post is Internet rubbish! Since the climates in Africa can differ dramatically from place to place. But hell, what do you know? LOL I will not mention Asia, on that schedule you've posted. O' dear. LOL
quote: The place which comes closets to the Med temperature is Sharm el Sheikh.
Climate: Egypt has a desert climate (except the coastal strip along the Mediterranean). hot, dry summers with moderate winters. Daily sunshine averages 12 hours in the summer and 8-10 hours in the winter. There are some cloudy days in the north during the winter months, with some rain but few in the south.
Southern Egypt is hot in the summer with low humidity. During the winter months - December, January and February - average daily temperatures stay up around 20°C (68°F) on the Mediterranean coast and a pleasant 26°C (80°F) in Aswan. Maximum temperatures get to 31°C (88°F) and 50°C (122°F) respectively. Winter nights only get down to 8°C (45°F), a very Egyptian version of chilly. Alexandria receives the most rain, with 19cm (7.5in) each year, while Aswan is almost bone-dry with just 2mm annually. Between March and April the khamsin blows in from the Western Desert at up to 150kmph (93mph).
Weatherwise: June to August is unbearably hot and temperatures during the day can soar up to 40°C. The best time to visit is in the spring, March to May or Autumn, September to November. In January the weather can be overcast and frequent downpours in some areas. Sinai's beaches are a tad chilly for sunbathing.
quote:Summer temperatures are extremely high, reaching 38°C to 43°C with extremes of 49°C in the southern and western deserts. The northern areas on the Mediterranean coast are much cooler, with 32°C as a maximum. Around April, a hot windstorm called the Khamsin sweeps through Egypt. Its driving winds blow large amounts of sand and dust at high speeds. The khamsin may raise temperatures as much as 38°C in two hours, and the hot winds can damage crops.
Africa has the lowest UV index diversity because the entire continent is in a medial latitude position - it recieves the most intense sunlight given its position.
UV Index:
Africa: 7 - 11 Americas: 1 - 11 Eurasia: 1 - 11
Africa has the lowest UV diversity.
Btw, your second map shows exactly this limited UV diversity, the African spectrum is only 7 - 11. 1 - 5 "low uv" don't appear anywhere in Africa, not even the extreme north or south...
-- Native Africans [trait-wise] have the lowest diversity in skin colour and hair texture. While all the other continents basically have a place with low uv levels (1 - 5), Africa doesn't. Africa is limited to high UV.
Straight-wavy hair and light skin are adaptations to low UV only, they are non-African adaptations.
Posts: 873 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2012
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: Djehootie's right Somalis are predominantly African,
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: That's not true.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Troll Patrol: [QB] ^During my Patrol I have already responded to you, three at best! One post even shows the complete makeup of Hg's.
You haven't responded to my question once,
All you did was post inconsequential repetitive suggestions based on "estimations".
well I guess you meant what you said, the statement:
"Somalis are predominantly African" is
" not true"
I'm glad we settled on what your position is Let me know if you want to retract.
Ok let's move on
Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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There is no texture even indicated on these. You can't tell what the hair type is.
Are the people at right waering some king of white cloths on their heads or is it hair? If it's hair, they don't look like old men so wouldn't it be blond color if it was hair?.
Same problem, this type of art does not have enough detail to tell what the hair type is
Look at Hesire:
^^^^ It's an afro right?
Yeah but this is also Hesire, same wood panel series
-the point is you can't tell what type his natural hair was.
I understand how you can't understand this.
But this hair:
can be turned into this.
The fact that I said you can't tell what type of hair it is if it is styled in a painting means I understand that in it's natural state it could be straight hair or an afro.
Are you taking the position that no Egyptians prior to that late period had straight hair?
Nevermind. I know you don't take positions, too much commitment, you just put up photos and charts, carry on.
Defruity says straight hair is the predominat type in indigenopus Africans of the Sahara
Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
The famous man above is "halve East African". Thou they say his mama wasn't fully white. Never the less.
So then was this one's papa not fully white?
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
^ Okay. The point is there are plenty of folks who are half-white from Bob Marley to President Obama, yet their hair is STILL kinky. Why then when there are blacks in Africa who look nowhere near part white even with very black skin and very tropical proportions they are assumed to be part-Eurasian due to their wavy hair? I already showed in a couple of threads black Eurasians with kinky hair as well as wavy hair so the whole wavy hair = Eurasian is a non-starter. Note too the hypocrisy that when frizzy or kinky type hair is found among even 'white' Eurasians such as Circassians in the Caucasus or some Turks and Europeans, there is no claim to say these people have African ancestry even though that may well be the case.
Also, if you guys want to argue Somali genetics there are plenty of old threads in this forum that discusses that. Suffice to say, Somalis have the highest frequency of E-M35 lineages in all of Africa yet now the lyinass is trying to say they have significant 'Eurasian' ancestry. LOL
By the way, I noticed when the lyinass posted pictures of Hesira, she posted a close-up of Hesira with his obvious plant fiber wig with the thick bands running down but NOT the afro wig.
Here the close-up of Hesi-ra in his afro.
I would like to get back to the issue of Egyptian hair and not anything else.
Posts: 26506 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Yes, it would have resembled a khat hair dress, but note my crucial comment about their unexposed ears. It probably wouldn't have been a sack (but perhaps styled like one in most depictions) given the fact that it usually covers their ears with a layer of hair. In this sense, it would have been more like a bob hairstyle. When the edges are rounded up to look like a sack in depictions (which is the hairstyle you'll see most often), it looks more like a khat headdress than a bob hairstyle, but in my view, those examples (including the variations where their hair is braided and layered) are just variations of the same hairstyle.
I'm thinking either the above hairstyles are artificial (plant) wigs OR actual hair styled that way...
For example, they could be kinky or frizzy hair hair combed down especially with a hot comb (since apparently the Egyptians invented hot combs).
Once straightened, they could be cut into certain shapes or styles like the miniature figures above.
So it's not hard to imagine men like these
Or women like this..
... having longer haired laid down for such an appearance though men usually kept their hair shorter than women.
Another option is that the men could have afros that were cut and 'shaped' into the forms shown in the miniatures.
Posts: 26506 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: Djehootie's right Somalis are predominantly African,
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: That's not true.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Troll Patrol: [QB] ^During my Patrol I have already responded to you, three at best! One post even shows the complete makeup of Hg's.
You haven't responded to my question once,
All you did was post inconsequential repetitive suggestions based on "estimations".
well I guess you meant what you said, the statement:
"Somalis are predominantly African" is
" not true"
I'm glad we settled on what your position is Let me know if you want to retract.
Ok let's move on
You are retarded. If you think you've actually made a point!lol
Djehuti stated Somalis main component is E-M35. Read to map above, "if you can".
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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The famous man above is "halve East African". Thou they say his mama wasn't fully white. Never the less.
So then was this one's papa not fully white?
I don't know is his dad was fully white. I did hear once that his dad was Lebanese or something. Yet he still looks nothing like those Somalis, who are extremely dark with straight hair. I had a Somali neighbor awhile a go with that type of hair texture and color complexion.
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: Lol @ Troll Patrol.
You do realise the Earth rotates right?
Africa has the lowest UV index diversity because the entire continent is in a medial latitude position - it recieves the most intense sunlight given its position.
UV Index:
Africa: 7 - 11 Americas: 1 - 11 Eurasia: 1 - 11
Africa has the lowest UV diversity.
Btw, your second map shows exactly this limited UV diversity, the African spectrum is only 7 - 11. 1 - 5 "low uv" don't appear anywhere in Africa, not even the extreme north or south...
-- Native Africans [trait-wise] have the lowest diversity in skin colour and hair texture. While all the other continents basically have a place with low uv levels (1 - 5), Africa doesn't. Africa is limited to high UV.
Straight-wavy hair and light skin are adaptations to low UV only, they are non-African adaptations.
Do you realize Africa has different climatic zones, including the Mediterranean climate. And on other hand we have Igbos and Khoisan (to name a few). Again you are debunking yourself with your UV-Index map. Shift your crooked eyes to the right (Asia). LOL
Adaptations to Climate-Mediated Selective Pressures in Humans
Angela M. Hancock et al.
Since human populations occupy a wide variety of environments with respect to climate, selective pressures are expected to vary greatly across geographic regions. Adaptations to spatially varying selective pressures are evident in the geographic distributions of many traits. For example, significant correlations exist between body mass and temperature [13]–[14], consistent with Bergmann's and Allen's Rules. Furthermore, there is evidence that human metabolism has been shaped by adaptations to cold stress from studies of arctic populations, which exhibit elevated basal metabolic rates compared to non-indigenous populations [15].
Like body mass, variation in skin pigmentation is strongly correlated with climate and geography, i.e. distance from the equator and solar radiation [16]–[17]. Lighter pigmentation is likely to be adaptive in high latitudes, in part, because UV light is needed to penetrate the skin to produce vitamin D [16]–[19], which is necessary for calcium absorption and bone growth.
(A) Maps show the distributions of summer and winter climate variables: maximum summer temperature, minimum winter temperature and solar radiation, precipitation rate and relative humidity in the summer and winter. (B) A heatmap shows the absolute values of Spearman rank correlation coefficients between pairs of climate variables.
Table 3. SNPs with the strongest signals of selection among those associated with phenotypic traits in GWAS.
There is no texture even indicated on these. You can't tell what the hair type is.
Are the people at right waering some king of white cloths on their heads or is it hair? If it's hair, they don't look like old men so wouldn't it be blond color if it was hair?.
Same problem, this type of art does not have enough detail to tell what the hair type is
Look at Hesire:
^^^^ It's an afro right?
Yeah but this is also Hesire, same wood panel series
-the point is you can't tell what type his natural hair was.
I understand how you can't understand this.
But this hair:
can be turned into this.
The fact that I said you can't tell what type of hair it is if it is styled in a painting means I understand that in it's natural state it could be straight hair or an afro.
Are you taking the position that no Egyptians prior to that late period had straight hair?
Nevermind. I know you don't take positions, too much commitment, you just put up photos and charts, carry on.
Defruity says straight hair is the predominat type in indigenopus Africans of the Sahara
Therefore it's perfectly normal the same Man had differed hairstyles. I even posted a "study" alone, showing the ancients using certain oils. lol
I am not sure if he, Djehuti, said "predominant", but groups have moved from terrain to terrain. While others stayed in the same location. All of this during climatic changes in the Sahara/Sahel region had.
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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^ Okay. The point is there are plenty of folks who are half-white from Bob Marley to President Obama, yet their hair is STILL kinky. Why then when there are blacks in Africa who look nowhere near part white even with very black skin and very tropical proportions they are assumed to be part-Eurasian due to their wavy hair? I already showed in a couple of threads black Eurasians with kinky hair as well as wavy hair so the whole wavy hair = Eurasian is a non-starter. Note too the hypocrisy that when frizzy or kinky type hair is found among even 'white' Eurasians such as Circassians in the Caucasus or some Turks and Europeans, there is no claim to say these people have African ancestry even though that may well be the case.
By the way, I noticed when the lioness posted pictures of Hesira, she posted a close-up of Hesira with his obvious plant fiber wig with the thick bands running down but NOT the afro wig.
Here the close-up of Hesi-ra in his afro.
I would like to get back to the issue of Egyptian hair and not anything else.
You assumed a lot there about intent but I didn't even make any statements. My intent was to illustrate all the people they were talking about, hubby Barak, Bob Marley and their parents. It's pretty intersting to see them all together like that. Neither Barak or Bob have wavy hair so your remarks are irrelevant. You can put your crusader sword away. Be more chill like Al Tak rather than jumpy and nervous.
What i have said is that looking at many of this art you can't tell for sure what the natural state of their hair was be it afro or straight or wavy.
Despite mummys you seem to say every instance in the art is an afro. You have pictures up of a bunch of African Americans with afros. Yet at the same time you maintain wavy hair is indigenous. I suppose there is no example in Egyptian art depicting Egyptians prior the late period that you think might represent hair that is not afro. Yet you are adamant that indigenous people in the region have such hair, not very consistent are you? It seems politically tainted, not objective.
I'm of the opinon that the art could be representing people with or without afro type hair. If I were to guess I would proably guess that Rahotep for instance may have had afro type hair.
I had taken into serious consideration that Hesire might have had an afro yet he is depicted with three different hair styles. I have posted a book page before which describes them all as wigs.
If he is depicted with three dfferent hairstyles what justification do you have i saying the afro one is not a wig? That they were incapable of making a wig overlapping the ear?
The thing that made be doubt the possibilty:
^^^ If he had that big puffy fro how is he fitting on this if it's a wig and lays so flatly on his head? I suppose he could grease down the afro in just in order to wear the straight wig. But if you do that to a fro it's not easy and it takes combing also and your hair is not going to go back into a fro anytime soon. Wake up knucklehead the man was bald
You say " his obvious plant fiber wig "
You are certain each and every every wig with straight strands is made of plant fiber?
more jumping to conclusions and assumption. tisk tisk If you were writing a book you would state that it was made of plant fiber without knowing what it was made of? Oh that's your style?
What is going on with his hair here could be a number of possibilities. a) he had straight hair and the artist didn't depict it in strict thin scale realism b) he had a fro or wavy and treated his hair straight c) it's a wig of unkown material d) it's microbraided hair e) Defruity is all knowing
my opinion, the man was bald and he had three wigs
and you don't hear me sayin stuff like "he obviously had straight hair" because there is no way of knowing, the situation is not "obvious" even though people might endorse the idea he had an afro because that makes them feel more comfortable.
[IMG][/IMG]
^^^^^ This hair I would call straight with slight wave. I suppose you call this wavy. You think there are adult male Africans with no Arab or other non-african ancestry with hair which grows downward and if grown out could cover the shoulders? What tribe has that? I won't say impossible but I would say unlikely.
Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ notice the person above doesn't respond directly to the question being proposed. It's mere another distraction.
quote: Wig of human hair
From Thebes, Egypt 18th Dynasty, about 1550-1300 BC
An ancient Egyptian's crowning glory
This wig is made of human hair, and is supposed to have come from a tomb at Thebes. It was found in its original box. The wig is in two parts, a mass of naturally curly hair on top of several hundred thin plaits hanging around the neck of the main wig. The curls are impregnated with a mixture of beeswax and resin. Each hair in the wig was waxed at the end and attached to the wig by twisting and then pressing back into the wax on the hair stem. An examination by a modern wigmaker concluded that the standard of craftsmanship was as high as in a good modern wig.
Wigs appear to have been commonly used in Egypt; Egyptologists normally refer to the majority of hairstyles shown in painting and sculpture as wigs. If this was indeed the case, and wigs were regularly worn for special occasions, then there must have been a considerable number in use. The hair is lighter than the almost pure black that is shown in Egyptian paintings.
J. Stevens Cox, 'The construction of an Ancient Egyptian wig (c. 1400 B.C.) in the British Museum', Journal of Egyptian Archaeol-5, 63 (1977)
S. Quirke and A.J. Spencer, The British Museum book of anc (London, The British Museum Press, 1992)
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [QB] [^^^ If he had that big puffy fro how is he fitting on this if it's a wig and lays so flatly on his head? I suppose he could grease down the afro in just in order to wear the straight wig. But if you do that to a fro it's not easy and it takes combing also and your hair is not going to go back into a fro anytime soon. Wake up knucklehead the man was bald
LOL
That completely depends on the texture of the hair. So you are off, again! In fact, usually when it's big and puffy "as you suggest" the hair is soft(-er).
You still haven't explained why all Africans need to have "the same hair texture" and can have loser hair texture? Neither have you explained why the Khoisan have " peppercorn" hair texture, when others don't.
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^^ notice how Troll makes no statements just posts pictures as if we are supposed to guess what his stance is. timid
^
Patrolling your troll ass is what what I do, so when are you going to answer all these questions. I am waiting for about a year now. Btw, there weren't just pics in my previous post.lol
Running from questions is what you can do best! In case you haven't noticed this about yourself.
It's carved stone, you can't tell whether he had a wig on, or different hairstyles during his lifespan.lol
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^^ notice how Troll makes no statements just posts pictures as if we are supposed to guess what his stance is. timid
^
Patrolling your troll ass is what what I do, so when are you going to answer all these questions. I am waiting for about a year now.
Running from questions is what you can do best! In case you haven't noticed this about yourself.
what question are you referring to Troll?
[i]if the wig don't fit you must acquit"
Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^^ notice how Troll makes no statements just posts pictures as if we are supposed to guess what his stance is. timid
^
Patrolling your troll ass is what what I do, so when are you going to answer all these questions. I am waiting for about a year now.
Running from questions is what you can do best! In case you haven't noticed this about yourself.
what question are you referring to Troll?
Get you head out your ass, for once. Lyin'S. (troll)
Repost;
You still haven't explained why all Africans need to have "the same hair texture" and can have loser hair texture? Neither have you explained why the Khoisan have " peppercorn" hair texture, when others don't.
Don't run away this time, like you have been doing for about a year now!lol
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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You still haven't explained why all Africans need to have "the same hair texture" and can have loser hair texture? Neither have you explained why the Khoisan have " peppercorn" hair texture, when others don't.
Don't run away this time!lol [/QB]
you have to have well stated questions to deal with the lioness
your questions seem to be:
1) Why do all Africans need to have the same hair texture?
2) Why do Khoisans have peppercorn hair texture?
Why do you say I'm running who is asking me these questions? where are the quotes of people asking me these questions. Also where's my answer payment? And nobody has ever asked me directly why Khosians have peppercorn hair. The why is a new one
1-Hair texture seems to me relative to the environment. Africa in my opinion doesn't have populations living continuously in cold environments to acquire hair such as Chinese people have I have already written plenty on the subject just backtrack the thread. Nobody but you is asking me about it because they don't want to hear me sayong the same things over again. You're going to bring up Austrailans. I covered that earlier.
2- I don't know why Khosians who live in arid conditions have peppercorn hair. Pepercorn hair seems pretty close to my afro type hair and Africans. It's possible their peppercorn hair is due to the fact that the San consume over 20% of the world's black pepper. The average San consumes 12 pounds or pepper a year.
Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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You still haven't explained why all Africans need to have "the same hair texture" and can have loser hair texture? Neither have you explained why the Khoisan have " peppercorn" hair texture, when others don't.
Don't run away this time!lol
you have to have well stated questions to deal with the lioness
your questions seem to be:
1) Why do all Africans need to have the same hair texture?
2) Why do Khoisans have peppercorn hair texture?
Why do you say I'm running who is asking me these questions? where are the quotes of people asking me these questions. Also where's my answer payment? And nobody has ever asked me directly why Khosians have peppercorn hair. The why is a new one
1-Hair texture seems to me relative to the environment. Africa in my opinion doesn't have populations living continuously in cold environments to acquire hair such as Chinese people have I have already written plenty on the subject just backtrack the thread. Nobody but you is asking me about it because they don't want to hear me sayong the same things over again. You're going to bring up Austrailans. I covered that earlier.
2- I don't know why Khosians who live in arid conditions have peppercorn hair. Pepercorn hair seems pretty close to my afro type hair and Africans. It's possible their peppercorn hair is due to the fact that the San consume over 20% of the world's black pepper. The average San consumes 12 pounds or pepper a year. [/QB]
It was stated well before. On multiple accounts.
So formulating the question wasn't nessesary. The point is, you ran from it so many times, you now act as if it was never addressed properly.lol
Where did I speak of Austrailans?lol
I am asking, why do all Africans despite of living in different ecosystems still need to have the same hair texture? Don't divert from this.
So you don't know why the Khoisan have peppercorn hair texture? Ok, fine. So, why is it other Africans can't have loser hair texture?
And to pin point it, why isn't Afro hair by "native Africans" not as equally peppercorn, why does it differ?
Reference: "Pepercorn hair seems pretty close to my afro type hair and Africans."
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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So formulating the question wasn't nessesary. The point is, you ran from it so many times, you now act as if it was never addressed properly.lol
Formulating the questions clearly is necessary. You haven't read the thread from page one you were awol I address all of this in detail.
Where are your quote of somebody asking me a question that you keep referring to and give me the page number
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
I am asking, why do all Africans despite of living in different ecosystems still need to have the same hair texture? Don't divert from this.
Why would you ask such a question? Your other posts are saying everything is afro in the Egyptian art Yet you want to talk hair diversity in Africa at the same time. Yet you would never suggest any of the Egyptian art before late dyansties represent people with wavy straight hair. That's hypocritical and Djeshootme is doing the same thing. Totally inconsistent behavior
Go back in the thread were I posted from a book scan on the evolution of hair. I also added comments there. Not every different ecosystem is going to require a unique type of hair. Africa has a variety of ecosytems but it doesn't have all the ecosystems in the world. Therefore it's not going to have all the adaptations of the world. Try to find an African tribe with people who have the type of hair Chinese people have. If you can't find such a tribe ask yourself why.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
So you don't know why the Khoisan have peppercorn hair texture? Ok, fine. So, why is it other Africans can't have loser hair texture?
And to pin point it, why isn't Afro hair by "native Africans" not as equally peppercorn, why does it differ?
Reference: "Pepercorn hair seems pretty close to my afro type hair and Africans."
The ancestors of Native Americans are thought to be Eurasian Siberians who crossed the Bering Straits. It's cold up there. Later some went down into the tropical zones of South America. They either haven't been there long enough to evolve back to afro hair or their straight hair (which is cut) is not that big of a disadvantage in the rain forest. It's possible however thant in the future Amazoanians could develop afros eventually -two theories there.
Now if you go up North and you don't have good clothes you could freeze to death. Springy hair that is good for humid environments to let perspiration is not as warm as stright hair that lays flatly on top of itself. If grown long it easily covers the back of the neck or further down to the shoulders. Think about that I don't think big thick dred locks are as efficient, the hair strands bunch up into wide sections and cold air can get in between. And its is very bulky. Forest people would have all sorts of branches getting caught up in that moving through thick brush. If you go back to the book page I posted you will see two additonal unique theories. That's your homework, $25.00
Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ I am not talking about Native Americans or Chinese people, I am talking about Africans. Did you know that Africa is multiple times larger than China, and in case you didn't know China has multiple ethnic groups too, so it is with Native Americans. Also, mankind inhabited Africa much longer then these other places.
So again, why is that all Africans need to have the same type of hair texture while living in a different ecosystem?
Don't rush into straight hair, lets take it one step at a time. And no, I didn't mention dreadlocks.
Northeast Africa, Egypt has "cold winters", and is overall cold during nights. The South of Egypt too. I have explained and shown this to you more than once.
Ps. I speak of personal experience, where you don't.
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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So again, why is that all Africans need to have the same type of hair texture while living in a different ecosystem?
I said some indigenous Africans might have curly or bushy hair. And the Khosians have peppercorn. So there are four types I already mentioned so why are you straw maning?
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
Don't rush into straight hair, lets take it one step at a time.
let me know when you're ready
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol
Northeast Africa, Egypt has "cold winters", and is overall cold during nights. The South of Egypt too. I have explained and shown this to you more than once.
Nevertheless it's not as cold as Turkey, Afghanistan, Chicago, Russia. most of China
Maybe that's why you put "cold winter" in quotes
Winter in Egypt. don't forget your mittens. wool sweater and snow shovel
Troll Patty, show us some pictures of indengenous African Egyptians with straight hair
^^^ not people like this, bless his soul, who are half African half European
Why do you think the wooly Mammoth and other cold climate mammals have long hair? Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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