Hair texture clearly held symbolic meaning for my participants. The women distinguished between "good" and "bad" hair by its texture, length, and curl pattern.
The longer, straighter. and silkier the hair the closer it was to their concept of "good" hair.
Conversely, the women designated short, curly, and woolly hair as "bad" hair.
Good hair was a code word for Caucasian, or straight, hair
On the opposite end of the continuum, bad hair served as a code for African, or kinky, hair."
- "No Nubian knots or Nappy Locks: Discussing the Politics of Hair Among Women of African Decent in the Diaspora. A Report on Research in Progress" Transforming Anthropology Volume 11, Issue 2, pages 60–63, July 2003 http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1525/tran.2003.11.2.60/abstractPosts: 873 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by lamin: It escapes most people that geographical labeling derives from constructions whether arbitrary or not.
But such labeling cannot work for purportedly scientific anthropology.
Humans have traveled to all parts of the globe in search of habitat territory, tracking hunt animals, escaping from droughts, etc.
Naive readers are often put off by claims that population X has genomic inputs not only from region X but also from region Y, without recognising that region Y is but a geographical continuation of region X.
The point is that when humans migrate their evolutionary status is determined not by some arbitrarily imposed geographical boundary condition but by more meaningful considerations such as bottlenecks, founder effects, genetic drift, assorted mating[as in the case of close-kin matings, etc.].
Most of the above variables are determined by ease of movement--as in whether movement is restricted by terrain such as mountains, water(seas, oceans, rivers, etc.), forests, deserts, extreme cold, etc.
Thus, in this context terms like "African", "non-African", "Eurasian", "Asian", "sub-Saharan", etc. really don't make sense. The optimal analysis should be conducted purely in terms of genomic structures determined by sex and autosomal chromosome analysis.
Eurocentric analysis is a major offender in this regard.
This is precisely the point I have been consistently making time and again, lamin! What exactly separates 'Eurasian' from 'African' especially going back to the first Eurasians who were essentially African colonists. According to the Euronuts once it is outside the African continent, even if it is right next door to the continent like Arabia and the Levant, it is no longer 'African'. This all stems from the same desperate Eurocentric and I dare say racist intent to divorce one's ancestors from Africans!
This is why we get all this talk of 'back-migrations' and genetic influence of Eurasians on Africans, even if such was the result of folks right next door to Africa. We see this a lot with the data on mitochondrial (maternal) lineages in Africa said to be Eurasian. Which is why Keita provided the following caveat. The issue of how much Paleolithic migration from the Near East there may have been is intriguing, and the mitochondrial DNA variation may need to be reassessed as to what can be considered to be only of "Eurasian origin" because if hunters and gatherers roamed between the Saharan and supra-Saharan regions and Eurasia it might be difficult to determine exactly "where" a mutation arose.-- Keita, In Hot Pursuit of Language in Prehistory ed. John Benjamins. (2008)
A perfect analogy would be the people of the British Isles who are of course derived from mainland Europeans. Whatever genetic difference arose among the people of the Isles would then make them 'different' constitute them as a whole from other Europeans and whatever back-migrations these British took to the mainland would be viewed as 'British genetic influence on Europeans'. LOL
But now this drive to divorce the early Eurasians from their African brethren has gotten worse and delves into the depths of insanity. Recall Swenet's thread on new aDNA findings by Fu et al. (2013) which states that the division between 'Eurasians' and Africans first occurred IN Africa before the OOA event! LMAO
This issue of African vs. Eurasian is another topic in its own right which deserves a thread of its own. In the meantime I want to discuss the topic of THIS thread which is the wavy hair of some Kemetians and Nubians.
Posts: 26477 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Fartheabonkers: GOOGLE: Rensch's hair law or rule.
"The density and length of mammalian hair is less in warm climates."
Checkmate again Afroloons.
Nobody is talking about density and length but rather texture like wavy and kinky, dummy.
Britannica (1990 edition) East African local race, a subgroup, roughly corresponding to a breeding isolate in genetics, of the Negroid (African) geographical race, comprising the populations of East Africa and The Sudan. The physical type of the East African local race is primarily one of adaptation to a hot, dry climate; it is marked by long, thin body build, long, narrow face and nose, and moderate to heavy skin pigmentation. The Sudanese peoples are dark-skinned and extremely tall and thin (linear) in build. The other East African populations are also more or less linear in build and somewhat lighter skinned than the Sudanese. All have dark eyes and dark hair, wavy to frizzy in texture.Posts: 26477 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^Your reasoning doesn't make any sense. That genetic input you're referring to is mostly 3000 years old, and wavy-straight hair (as well as other so called ''Caucasian traits'') in the region pre-dates that time period.
Now your are talking about wavy-straight hair in the Somali region prior to 3000 years old. What time period in years are you talking about and what remains had hair on them of that period?
still waiting on your sources here for a defined time range, existence of straight hair in the Somali region, documented before 3000 years go
________________________________________________
^^^^ why did this hair evolve?
It seems that it evolved as an adaptation to cold tempertures rather than arid conditions
what about people with straight hair in the Amazon rainforest? Well the ancestors of the natives of the Americas are believed to have come from Siberia. There's your key. People with straight hair in tropical envirionments had ancestors who at some point lived in colder climates.
What is going to keep your neck warmer the type of hair above or an afro? The answer is obvious.
Look at the woman above. Here hair is more suited to the dry Sahara than an afro? Japan is drier than the Sahara It doesn't make sense
Posts: 43095 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ "HAIR TYPE, FORM, AND COLOR Hair is composed of keratinized cells tightly cemented together (Mayr, 1970). Humans are closely categorized in accordance with hair color, type, and form-for example, wavy, straight, irregular, or spiral. These features serve descriptive, rather than causal, pur-poses. It seems the degree of hair coil coincides closely with the extent of tightness of the keratinized cells. Hair tends to coil less away from the tropics. The extent of coiling appears to be correlated with humid/hot ver-sus dry/cold binary opposition. Thence, hair tends to coil more in hot and humid Florida and less in cooler and less humid California."
Variation within the Black Human Race-Paleoecological Sketches to the Nonstarted Journal of Black Studies, Vol. 31, No. 6 (Jul., 2001), pp. 812-834
Lol. So you even have most Afrocentric journals even agreeing straight-wavy hair is a cold northern latitude (non-African) adaptation.
Apart from Zaharan and Swenet behind their keyboards, no one else is claiming "Blacks have straight hair". Not even the Journal of Black Studies... Posts: 873 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ Yet nobody is saying blacks have straight hair like the kind you see in Europeans or east Asians, dummy.
"HAIR TYPE, FORM, AND COLOR Hair is composed of keratinized cells tightly cemented together (Mayr, 1970). Humans are closely categorized in accordance with hair color, type, and form-for example, wavy, straight, irregular, or spiral. These features serve descriptive, rather than causal, pur-poses. It seems the degree of hair coil coincides closely with the extent of tightness of the keratinized cells. Hair tends to coil less away from the tropics. The extent of coiling appears to be correlated with humid/hot ver-sus dry/cold binary opposition. Thence, hair tends to coil more in hot and humid Florida and less in cooler and less humid California."
Variation within the Black Human Race-Paleoecological Sketches to the Nonstarted Journal of Black Studies, Vol. 31, No. 6 (Jul., 2001), pp. 812-834
So what about hot but arid environments?? We know deserts arid yet hot as well during the days but cool at night and this is true of tropical deserts. Thus the above study seems to prove my theory that loose hair evolved in the tropics in arid conditions. The comparison between California and Florida may not be as fair because the two states are at different latitudes but a better comparison would be Florida and Mexico with Florida being more humid while Mexico is more arid.
Plus lyinass is right. The above picture does not indicate exactly what kind of hair follicle they have.
The hair could be braided OR it could be altered due to the result of braiding such as the ladies below.
Posts: 26477 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Anyway, getting back to the crux of the matter of this thread...
Ausar, the former moderator, who is himself Egyptian, has explained on many occasions that loose or wavy hair really is not that common at all among native Egyptians and rather tight curls or kinky hair is more predominant. In fact wavy type hair occurs most often in deep Sa'id i.e. the very southern areas of Egypt as opposed to the north. And that wavy hair is actually more common among Nubians than in Egyptians!
There’s no need for me to post artistic evidence as I’m sure all of you have seen the countless tomb images and depictions of Egyptians with ‘round’ afro hairs and wigs. And even Truthcentric was sharp enough to point out those images of Egyptians with short cropped hair that had a wave pattern due to the application of butter or animal fat. Again this pattern affect happens in the hair of people with tight coiled hair.
All of this is also corroborated by Greco-Roman sources which consistently describe Egyptian hair to be stereotypical of other Libyans (Africans) in that it is wooly, extremely, curly or even 'crooked'.
Herodotus: “they are black-skinned and have woolly hair”
Aristotle makes reference to the hair form of Egyptians and Ethiopians: "Why are the Ethiopians and Egyptians bandy-legged? Is it because the bodies of living creatures become distorted by heat, like logs of wood when they become dry? The condition of their hair supports this theory; for it is curlier than that of other nations, and curliness is as it were crookedness of the hair." (Physiognomics, Book XIV, p. 317)
Note that the Egyptians the Greco-Romans were most familiar with were those living in the Delta region. Yet it was the same Delta region that became inundated by foreigners post-dynastic times. Yet even today tighter hair remains common. Even Ausar has stated on many occasions that many ‘Arab’ Egyptians men who grow out their hair end up with afros and that many Egyptian women actually use hair relaxers to straighten their hair even if they wear hijabs!
Modern Egyptians
Interesting how the ONLY evidence we have of loose haired ancient Egyptians comes to us only from a select group of mummies. Yet not only is it a fact that the embalming chemicals of mummification alter hair, but the vast majority of these loose haired mummies are members of dynasties that originate in the very south of Egypt where loose hair is more common.
Posts: 26477 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: It's in the same UV cluster
It’s also in the same cluster as indigenous South Asians and Southeast Asians, many of whom have straighter hair than Europeans. What is your point?
You can keep ''new evidence'' all you want. All you're doing is proving your habit to flip flop and knock down strawmen. Then there is the fact that other UV maps don't depict Northern Africa as in the same UV range as Equatorial Africa:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Its not hard to imagine that hair type in more Northern regions (relative to Yemen) [e.g., the Eastern Sahara] could easily produce more looser hair than what's visible on the head of that guy you've posted.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: refer to the first 5 posts on page 1
The point I'm making goes back to the very issue of this thread that Swenet has brought up. That wavy type hair was discovered among Nubian remains in Semna from different periods.
That most of the Egyptian royal mummies who exhibit such hair are themselves are suggested to have Nubian ancestry such as those of the 17th and 18th dynasties as well as older Old Kingdom dynasties.
The late XVII Dynasty and XVIII Dynasty royal mummies display the strongest Nubian affinities. In terms of maxillary protrusion as measured by SNA, the mean value for these Pharaohs is 84.21 comparable to that of African Americans. They exceed the latter in terms of ANB and SN-M Plane, but are closer to Caucasians in regards to SNB. However, the ability of SNA and SNB to predict maxillary and mandibular protrusion respectively has been questioned. Some studies suggest that measuring prognathism from the Frankfort horizontal would produce more reliable results (See RM Ricketts, RJ Schulhof, L Bagha. Orientation-sella-nasion or Frankfort horizontal. Am J Orthod 1976 Jun;69(6):648-654; also JW Moore. Variation of the sella-nasion plane and its effect on SNA and SNB. J Oral Surg. 1976 Jan; 34(1): 24-26).
In regards to head shape, the late XVII and XVIII dynasty mummies are very close to Nubian samples intermediate between the Mesolithic and Christian periods. The zygomatic arches are almost always vertical or forward and not receding...
..In summation, the New Kingdom Pharaohs and Queens whose mummies have been recovered bear strong similarity to either contemporary Nubians, as with the XVII and XVIII dynasties, or with Mesolithic-Holocene Nubians, as with the XVIV and XX dynasties. The former dynasties seem to have a strong southern affinity, while the latter possessed evidence of mixing with modern Mediterranean types and also, possibly, with remnants of the old Tasian and Natufian populations. From the few sample available from the XXI Dynasty, there may have been a new infusion from the south at this period.”
--- P.K. Manansala's review of Harris and Wente's X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies
From the same book James Harris writes of Sekenenra Tao, founder of the 17th dynasty:
"His entire lower facial complex, in fact, is so different from other pharaohs that he could be fitted more easily into the series of Nubian and Old Kingdom Giza skulls than into that of later Egyptian kings. Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian--that is, non-Egyptian--origin for Seqenenra and his family, and his facial features suggest this might indeed be true. If it is, the history of the family that reputedly drove the Hyksos from Egypt, and the history of the Seventeenth Dynasty, stand in need of considerable re-examination."
From the 2nd page of this thread Swenet cites a passage from Yurco about Sekenenra Tao having tightly curled hair as another of his typical Nubian features. But actually that is WRONG.
Here is the typical frontal view of Sekenenra's mummy.
And here is a bottom view of his head showing more of his hair:
^ As you can see there is nothing "tightly curled" about his hair at all. I dare say that Yurco presumed that Tao's hair was tightly curled due to his more obvious 'Nubian' facial features.
What's more is that such wavy hair was also found to be relatively common among Badarian remains, and we know the Badarians did not use embalming fluid but used the natural desert.
Swenet has already cited many sources on how the Badarians looked cranio-facially and they definitely were not 'Caucasoid' in that department or any for that matter.
Here are a couple more sources on the Badarians.
"Badarian occupies a position closest to the Teita, Gaboon, Nubian, and Nagada series by centroid values and territorial maps. The Nagada and the Kerma series are so similar that they are barely distinguishable in the territorial maps; they subsume the first dynasty series in Abydos… The Badarian crania have a modal metric phenotype that is clearly “southern”; most classify into the Kerma (Nubian), Gaboon, and Kenyan groups… No Badarian cranium in any analysis classified into the European series"--- Keita (1990)
"In the sum, the results obtained further strengthen the results from previous analyses. The affinities between Nazlet Khater, MSA, and Khoisan and Khoisan related groups re-emerges. In addition it is possible to detect a separation between North African and sub-saharan populations, with the Neolithic Saharan population from Hasi el Abiod and the Egyptian Badarian group being closely affiliated with modern Negroid groups..."--- Vermeersch (2002)
Yet all these folks have wavy hair. By the way, it was already discussed in the first few pages that trichonometric indices of the hairs cluster them with other Sub-Saharans rather with with Europeans or Asians. Therefore notions of Euro-asiatic influence for such hair are utterly destroyed. Posts: 26477 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Good example with Seqenenre Tao. His hair matches some of the Nubian hair form descriptions to a T, re: wavy and flowing. What do you mean with ''trichonometric indices of the hairs cluster them with Sub-Saharans''? Do you mean this typical Sub-Saharan hair trait?
quote:They were studied microscopically by S. Tittelbachova' from the Institute of Anthropology of the Charles University, who found in five out of seven samples a change in the thickness of the hair in the course of its length, sometimes with a simultaneous narrowing of the hair pith. (...) These peculiarities also show the Negroid influence among the Badarians.
posted
^ Just got through reading the article. Very interesting indeed. Comes to show how genetic factors can influence phenotypic features, yet this again proves that ONE feature alone is not enough to jump to the conclusion of genetic influence or ancestry from another populace. Unfortunately not many folks are bright enough to learn this..
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass,:
^^^^^ It seems peculiar that all of this is Nubian.
It's only 'peculiar' to folks totally ignorant about phenotypic diversity in Africans or humans in general as well as genetics. Posts: 26477 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Good example with Seqenenre Tao. His hair matches some of the Nubian hair form descriptions to a T, re: wavy and flowing. What do you mean with ''trichonometric indices of the hairs cluster them with Sub-Saharans''? Do you mean this typical Sub-Saharan hair trait?
quote:They were studied microscopically by S. Tittelbachova' from the Institute of Anthropology of the Charles University, who found in five out of seven samples a change in the thickness of the hair in the course of its length, sometimes with a simultaneous narrowing of the hair pith. (...) These peculiarities also show the Negroid influence among the Badarians.
--Strouhal, 1971
No, I mean the actual index of the cross-sections of the hairs.
http://wysinger.homestead.com/hair2.html "The outline of the cross-sections of the hairs was flattened, with indices ranging from 35 to 65. These peculiarities also show the Negroid inference among the Badarians (pre-dynastic Egyptians)."
The term "Negroid influence" suggests intermixture, but as the table suggests this hair is more "Negroid" than the San and the Zulu samples, currently the most Negroid hair in existence!
In another study, hair samples from ten 18th-25th dynasty individuals produced an average index of 51! As far back as 1877, Dr. Pruner-Bey analyzed six ancient Egyptian hair samples. Their average index of 64.4 was similar to the Tasmanians who lie at the periphery of the African-haired populations(1).
San, Southern African 55.00 Zulu, Southern African 55.00 Sub-Saharan Africa 60.00 Tasmanian (Black) 64.70 Australian (Black) 68.00 Western European 71.20 Asian Indian 73.00 Navajo American 77.00 Chinese 82.60 Posts: 26477 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Biologically, the degree of curliness is correlated with the distribution of hair keratins and cell type within the hair fibre, with the number of mesocortical cells decreasing as the curl intensifies (Thibaut et al., 2007). Recent studies have identified Asian specific alleles of EDAR and FGFR2 that are associated with thick straight hair, suggesting that these variants arose following the divergence of Asians and Europeans (Fujimoto et al., 2008; Fujimoto et al., 2009). It seems likely that parallel mutations may have evolved giving rise to straight hair in Europeans. However, to date no genetic variants have been identified influencing hair texture in Europeans. Here we examine the evidence for genetic effects on hair texture in three twin samples as a precursor to analyses attempting to indentify genes influencing this trait in individuals of European ancestry.
quote:Hair growth and texture are directly linked to the follicle.
Egyptian women are known to have worn wigs, hairpieces, and extensions. The men usually shaved their heads or wore moderate East African type styles.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Proof of the hair forms of AEs is easily got from observing that on their murals the generic male Egyptian never seems to be able to grow a full beard as with the West Asian types. And hair on the head is usually "bunched up" springy style or a wig is worn.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Note that the tradition of wig-wearing and adding extensions and braids seems to go all the way back to Ancient Egypt.
The colonialists used to refer to Africans who "bunched up" their hair as "fuzzy wuzzies"--as one sees with the Tutsies, Himas, and others. Yet to conform to modern styles the females of such groups wear extensions, wigs, and braids which are popular in Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, Somalia, etc.
posted
^ Yes and like many other African societies, hairstyles including wigs are a sign of status. Certain styles reflect things like gender, age, and position in the community.
What's funny is that many Euronuts often stress "straight haired" wigs, yet the majority of wigs I've seen are actually of the wooly type usually braided.
posted
And the "straight haired" wigs were surely from war captives from Asia or "comfort-girls" brought in from West Asia.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ The Egyptians were known to have traded hair from other nations and not from war captives. Still the vast majority of wigs was made from native hair in and around the Nile Valley.
Posts: 26477 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Biologically, the degree of curliness is correlated with the distribution of hair keratins and cell type within the hair fibre, with the number of mesocortical cells decreasing as the curl intensifies (Thibaut et al., 2007). Recent studies have identified Asian specific alleles of EDAR and FGFR2 that are associated with thick straight hair, suggesting that these variants arose following the divergence of Asians and Europeans (Fujimoto et al., 2008; Fujimoto et al., 2009). It seems likely that parallel mutations may have evolved giving rise to straight hair in Europeans. However, to date no genetic variants have been identified influencing hair texture in Europeans. Here we examine the evidence for genetic effects on hair texture in three twin samples as a precursor to analyses attempting to indentify genes influencing this trait in individuals of European ancestry.
So we know that wavy-straight hair evolved at least twice, paralleling the mutation for light skin somewhat. Since West Eurasian and European divergences can be quite deep, sometimes involving people who are primarily linked by more or less early OOA haplogroups, is it reasonable to suggest that the European mutation for wavy straight hair evolved before the settlement of Europe?
Since the habitation of high latitude Europe post-dates the split of West Asians and Europeans--who both have the same hair mutations--I think its save to say that wavy-straight hair in Europe is NOT necessarily an adaptation to low UV/high latitudes, as maintained by Modo-face.
Posts: 8807 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by lamin: Proof of the hair forms of AEs is easily got from observing that on their murals the generic male Egyptian never seems to be able to grow a full beard as with the West Asian types. And hair on the head is usually "bunched up" springy style or a wig is worn.
Pre/proto dynastic art shows plenty of Egypto-Nubians with facial hair. Were they unable to grow it, or was it their concious choice?
posted
^ Interesting question. You are right that predynastic depictions both statues and rock engravings show bearded males. Though Ausar points out that many Egyptians at least in certain areas don't grow full beards that well. Even many pharaohs would wear false beards.
I think it depends on the specific population within Egypt.
Posts: 26477 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
^Perhaps. Also relevant: wavy haired Gebelein mummy called ''Ginger'' has been CAT scanned and shows a facial morphology consistent with other pre-dynastic remains. LMAO. So much for the retarded Nordic origins speculations. What else is new?
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: [QB] ^Perhaps. Also relevant: wavy haired Gebelein mummy called ''Ginger'' has been CAT scanned and shows a facial morphology consistent with other pre-dynastic remains. LMAO. So much for the retarded Nordic origins speculations. What else is new?
what about Near Eastern?
Posts: 43095 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Figure 6.3 illustrates some of the cranial parameters of Egyptian, Chalcolithic and Early Bronze Age skeletal samples. Mean values and standard deviations of all measurements for Byblos and other Chalcolithic sites in the southern Levant overlap, while those from the Egyptian Predynastic and Early Dynastic sites diverge considerably. The small and incomplete data set (not all measurements could be made on all specimens) indicates that the values quoted may not accurately reflect the entire range of population variation at any one site. However, the data sets available demonstrate consistent differences between samples from the Levant and those from Egypt. This is manifest in cranial breath, Upper facial height and nasal height --Smith 2002
Note the relatively short nasal height and upper facial height (nasion to prosthion [click if you don't know what it means]) on Gebelein man, indicating that he conforms to the expectations for predynastic Upper Egyptians, as laid out by Smith and many others. (That is not to say that all Predynastic Upper Egyptians need to look like that, to be African, either). On the other hand, this a skull from Chalcolithic Northern Negev (note the long Upper face and nasal height), which is broadly contemporary with Gebelein man:
posted
^Your point? Its self-explanatory that that Gebelein man's mandible isn't properly aligned, given the misalignment of his molars and the large distance in between his ramus and his mastoid process. You're just trolling because you can't make the case that wavy hair correlates with Eurasian morphology in the Nile Valley. You've used Gebelein mummy for this purpose in the past, and you've now been schooled on the fact that he displays no anomalies that single him out.
Posts: 8807 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Are you saying that you did not create a thread in the past where you've used the patches of hair on his head as an anomaly? Are you also saying that you did not read that Smith quote, that describes where Egypto-Nubians and Levantines consistently differ?
Posts: 8807 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Phuck outta here with that ''I'm entitled to an answer'' attitude. What makes you think I have to answer to you any more than I already have with that Smith quote?
Posts: 8807 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ LMAOH I guess that's what you get for conversing with a troll. As if lyinass is interested in the truth and not furthering her Eurasian 'mixed-up' agenda.
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass,: what about Near Eastern?
We can't even find evidence of 'Near Eastern' presence or influence in the early Delta populations. What makes you think there is any in Upper Egypt??
By the way, ancient Inerty (Gebelein) is located about 40 km south of Waset (Thebes) in deep Sa'id (south) of Egypt.
We've already explained to you that predynastic Egyptian groups such as the Badarian who likely came from the Sahara display affinities held more in common with typical Sub-Saharan "negroes" than anyone else. What makes you think the Gebelein 'Ginger' man was any different??
And Swenet is right, you have on many past occasions tried to use the hair of Ginger to make a point that he is of non-African origin.
Suffice to say, it didn't work then and it doesn't work now.
Posts: 26477 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
^^^^ I would say this guy is a possibility although Gebelein man was beleived by analysis to be 18-21 years old. When the man at left was 21 did he have that hair color? Is he 95% African or is he 53% African? I don't know. It's hard to tell by looking. But I'll take Djefruity's word for it since he probably looked at the man's DNA analysis. The man at left seems to have coarse, stiff bushy hair. It's hard to tell the quality of the hair on the mummy at right, if it's similar in texture. Could be
.
this hair on the much later Rameses II seems^^^^^ to be of a thin strand type. No problem there's dark skinned people all over Africa with this hair type they tell me
KV35 Elder Lady, thought to be Queen Tiye, wavy hair here.
^^^ lookin kind of yellow here, almost like that yellow they sometimes used for Libyans
Posts: 43095 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: I like how lioness is learning and (seemingly) coming around.
Keyword seemingly. I doubt lyinass will ever come around so long as her anti-black bias prevails.
Exactly. I recant that.
Note to self: can't expect a troll to turn into a sane poster.
Posts: 8807 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
^^ Fantasy reconstructions aside we have actual depictions of Tiye made in her life:
And we have analysis of her skull as well:
First identified as Queen Tiye The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism.
Perhaps a more accurate reconstruction:
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass,:
^^^^ I would say this guy is a possibility although Gebelein man was beleived by analysis to be 18-21 years old. When the man at left was 21 did he have that hair color?
The hair follicles of the elderly stop producing eumelanin, hence light or grayish hair. What makes you assume that a young person's hair stays the exact same color after he dies??
quote:Is he 95% African or is he 53% African? I don't know. It's hard to tell by looking. But I'll take Djefruity's word for it since he probably looked at the man's DNA analysis.
And why must you assume an African is somehow of mixed ancestry because he does not match your preconceived stereotype in this case hair?
53% African?? I don't know how you came up with that estimate but here below is a person who is 50% African yet has kinky hair.
Barrack Obama
And I already showed your dumbass 100% Eurasians with kinky hair including indigenous tribes in Arabia.
quote:The man at left seems to have coarse, stiff bushy hair. It's hard to tell the quality of the hair on the mummy at right, if it's similar in texture. Could be
this hair on the much later Rameses II seems^^^^^ to be of a thin strand type. No problem there's dark skinned people all over Africa with this hair type they tell me
KV35 Elder Lady, thought to be Queen Tiye, wavy hair here.
African hair in general is more coarse even if it's in wavy form! I already cited evidence showing how the wavy hair form of Africans is different from that of say Europeans even having different trichonometric index range, moron! So whether the hair is picked out in bush (afro) form or layed down like Tiye's it's the same thing!
quote: ^^^ lookin kind of yellow here, almost like that yellow they sometimes used for Libyans
If you're referring to the SKIN of the mummy, again, what the hell makes you think mummified skin biochemically maintained the same complexion that it had when the body was alive??!! Note that you are only pointing out patches or areas of skin that are yellowish when most of the skin is actually dark.
My God, you are dumb as hell!
Posts: 26477 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
One problematic in all this is that we know that the AEs wore wigs over shaved heads. That's why one must be circumspect when some team of excavators(Euro-American is the norm) comes up with "findings".
The question is how sure are we that what the Euros present is accurate? The Queen Tiye sculpture has her with a wig or bunched up hair. Just a head-scratch on that one. I prefer to go with the murals and original sculptures. Look how they presented that fake bleached-out Tut as the real thing. These snake-oil artists are relentless with their BS.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hmm, I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying that the instances of Egypto-Nubian mummies with wavy-straight locks are doctored? I'm really having a hard time following you, since the murals and sculptures definitely aren't uniformly saying that the Egyptians had Afros.
Posts: 8807 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ Indeed. Even lamin admitted that most Egyptians shaved their heads and wore wigs. Even the ancient murals show most Egyptians with afro type hair if not wigs. What 'most' Egyptians had is not the issue. The issue we are discussing comes from a relatively few mummies (out of the vast majority that were either destroyed or remain out of sight) showing wavy hair and comparing these those Nubians who exhibit the same type of hair.
Posts: 26477 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
The whole hair shaving thing is not uniform across all periods or class, even during the times when it was a common practice. As for the prevalence of Afro hairstyles, by far, the most Egyptian males are depicted like this:
And this^ most definitely is not a 'fro.
Posts: 8807 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
^^^^ The above is not even a reconstruction It's obviously less accurate becasue it's based on the wooden statuette rather than the mummy, idiot. It's one of a few different artistic representations you know nothing and it is merely the wooden statuette with a new set of clothes on it
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: The issue we are discussing comes from a relatively few mummies (out of the vast majority that were either destroyed or remain out of sight) showing wavy hair and comparing these those Nubians who exhibit the same type of hair. [/QB]
compare to which Nubians? I have seen no Nubian mummies with wavy hair. Where are they?
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: The whole hair shaving thing is not uniform across all periods or class, even during the times when it was a common practice. As for the prevalence of Afro hairstyles, by far, the most Egyptian males are depicted like this:
And this^ most definitely is not a 'fro.
here is an example of a simplified cartoonish piece of art in a low quality photograph. It is impossble to tell the hair type or if it's a wig. here the wooden statutte of Queen Tiye:
^^she had a big afro right?
^^^^^ wrong that's a headress>
^^^^^ also note her jawline is more squarish than in the statuette
Posts: 43095 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
^^^^ The above is not even a reconstruction It's obviously less accurate because it's based on the wooden statuette rather than the mummy, idiot.
And what do you think the (painted) wooden statuette is based on than the living person herself, idiot?! LOL
quote:It's one of a few different artistic representations you know nothing and it is merely the wooden statuette with a new set of clothes on it.
Of course it is an artistic representation but one based on authentic artistic portraiture i.e. the painted wooden busts. Here are a few more authentic ancient portraits:
^ The features are consistent.
quote:compare to which Nubians? I have seen no Nubian mummies with wavy hair. Where are they?
LMAO B|tch, did you not read the very first page of this thread? What the hell did you think the topic of this thread is about and what data Swenet is referring to?!
quote:here is an example of a simplified cartoonish piece of art in a low quality photograph.
You seem to denigrate and/or complain about ancient Egyptian art when it portrays the Egyptians as they were (black) by calling it "cartoonish" or something else.
quote:It is impossble to tell the hair type or if it's a wig. here the wooden statuette of Queen Tiye:
^^she had a big afro right?
^^^^^ wrong that's a headress
Wrong again, worm! How many times must we tell your lying dumbass that what the bust wears is NOT a "headress" but a WIG!! There is no such thing as a round helmet like Egyptian headdress but there are Egyptian round wigs a.k.a. 'Afros'!!
quote:
^^^^^ also note her jawline is more squarish than in the statuette
Can you shut your lyinass up for a change?? *sigh*
Posts: 26477 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic