posted
Interesting stuff. There is some data that the Nubians themselves manufactured chariots.
Morkot (2003) notes a dissemination of war technology across the Nile Valley. "Nubia, too, must have benefited from the international arms trade. Although battle scenes show Nubian enemies conventionally as bowmen with relatively little equipment, other sources show the use of chariots by the elite, and the "tribute" scenes show weaponry and armor that was manufactured in Nubia... the inclusion of chariots as part of the Kushite tribute to Egypt suggests that they, too, were eventually being manufactured in Nubia itself".[12] --Robert Morkot. Historical dictionary of ancient Egyptian warfare. Rowman & Littlefield, 2003, p. 26, xlvi
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: Interesting stuff. There is some data that the Nubians themselves manufactured chariots.
Morkot (2003) notes a dissemination of war technology across the Nile Valley. "Nubia, too, must have benefited from the international arms trade. Although battle scenes show Nubian enemies conventionally as bowmen with relatively little equipment, other sources show the use of chariots by the elite, and the "tribute" scenes show weaponry and armor that was manufactured in Nubia... the inclusion of chariots as part of the Kushite tribute to Egypt suggests that they, too, were eventually being manufactured in Nubia itself".[12] --Robert Morkot. Historical dictionary of ancient Egyptian warfare. Rowman & Littlefield, 2003, p. 26, xlvi
Recall that during the Hyksos rule of the 2nd Intermediate Period right before the New Kingdom, the Hyksos also engaged in trade with Kush and even conspired to divide Egypt between them. That said, it's no surprise that Kush had their own horses and charioteers. By the Greco-Roman period, horses and chariots were being used by various peoples in Libya to the west (like the Garamantes and Negritai) and eventually further west by the Numidians etc.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
By the way the mande were more effective in stopping the arab invasions south in the middle ages then the nubians.
For the arab invasion of the mande ghana empire it took one big defeat for the arabs and you hear no more invasion.
The mande had more powerful militaries then the nubian militaries and more so later on as well.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Everytime I post this img it disappears. Fortunately black independent EgyptsearchReloaded still has a copy.
quote: author="@altakruri" source="/post/21799/thread" timestamp="1594535007"] From EgyptSearch Forums » Deshret » @ Mr. Marc Washington
quote: It's easy to be critical of the forerunners of positive independent minded African studies but without them none of the advances we take for granted today would have surfaced or even have been possible. We would still be on the level of Tarzan and Jane colonialist claptrap without them.
Earl Sweeting & Lez Edmond African History: An Illustrated Handbook
I'm trying to trace down further information on the Arab army that in ~734 reached the Western Sudan (i.e., Old Ghana) and per abd ul~Hakam obtained much gold booty.
But the other side to the story tells us of al~Hunayhin, remnants of that army per al~Bakri, who settled down near Ghana.
Now Sweeting and Edmond have a page showing Ghana's army routing the Arab army and if I remember rightly the text gives sources on the battle which I need.
... I've been trying to track this down again for decades, the origin of al~Hunayhin as defeated segments of abi `Ubayda's army.
[. . . .]
The particular painting I was hoping for showed the Old Ghana cavalry, their heads tied with filets, routing the Arab losers into a pall mall retreat. The text gave the sources and try as I may though I can find secondary info on that battle I can't find the source detailing the Wagadu forces armament and white headbands.
[. . . .]
... Old Ghana (Wagadu) and the defeat and repelling of Ubayda's Arab expeditionary forces. We find the best they could do was enter into a trade relationship with Wagadu. Though it's
always written that Ubaida took what he pleased from Wagadu the fact is if he was so successful and easily won out over Wagadu then why was there no follow up conquest to incorporate it into Dar al Islam and how is it that an Arab originated ethny named Honeihin (Hunayhin) came to be in the Tagant under the Kaya Magha converting from Islam to his religion?
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Although legitimate African Studies is backstaged for controversial mouthings from non-Inner African/Diasporan members I been meaning to open a thread for the Home Team History youtube channel.
As always I don't 100% agree with anybody and the intro theme is very very retro but if kinda makes me think what ES could do if certain of us acted as much as colleagues as do the Nons. Not calling out names but you slackers who once made great Africana threads and posts know who you are. Over 100 years ago F Douglas told the American Colored population -- you can't win if you don't struggle and struggle you must! The Struggle is ongoing and continuous since the first generations of Africans in the so-called Western Hemisphere to our great great grand children and their gg grands, ad infinitum.
quote: author="@anansi" source="/post/21795/thread" timestamp="1594465922"] HomeTeam history uploaded this thought provoking vid, https://youtu.be/Q-x7svkf1pg Did the empire of Wagadu, absolutely smoked the Umayyad Invasion, so successful elsewhere, not only that but according to reports, survivors of this invasion,aposthsized from Islam and adopted the religion of the Wagadu, this is worth exploring, because now know why they halted their advance, but to have them aposthsized against Islam to a decidedly non Abrahamic faith is really stunning..pls view, do some more research and add your comments or new info.
posted
In modern times the mande and other african groups in Mauritania were not able to stop the arabs invading in Mauritania for example.
The arab berbers however are the rulers of Mauritania today but are not the majority population like the arabs are in sudan(northern sudan).
History
Early history
quote:
The ancient tribes of Mauritania were Berber, Niger-Congo, and Bafour peoples. The Bafour were among the first Saharan people to abandon their previously nomadic lifestyle and adopt a primarily agricultural one. In response to the gradual desiccation of the Sahara, they eventually migrated southward. Many of the Berber tribes have claimed to have Yemeni (and sometimes other Arab) origins. There is little evidence to support those claims, although a 2000 DNA study of the Yemeni people did suggest there might be some ancient connection between the peoples.
Other peoples also migrated south past the Sahara and into West Africa. According to a dubious Arab tradition the Almoravids travelled south and conquered the ancient and extensive Ghana Empire around 1076. From 1644 to 1674, the indigenous peoples of the area that is modern Mauritania made what became their final effort to repel the Yemeni Maqil Arabs who were invading their territory. This effort, which was unsuccessful, is known as the Char Bouba war. The invaders were led by the Beni Hassan tribe. The descendants of the Beni Hassan warriors became the upper stratum of Moorish society. Hassaniya, a bedouin Arabic dialect named for the Beni Hassan, became the dominant language among the largely nomadic population.
Berbers retained a niche influence by producing the majority of the region's marabouts, as those who preserve and teach Islamic tradition there are called.
So arabs still found away to invade the south again but not in middle ages like the arabs did in nubia. The next invasions were modern times this time and even as far as timbuktu but were kicked out later from the land of mali.
Timbuktu
quote: The Moroccans invaded the Songhai Empire in 1590 and, after the 1591 Battle of Tondibi, occupied Timbuktu. In 1593 most of the university faculty was executed or exiled for disloyalty to the new rulers, and this, along with a decline in trade caused by increased competition from newly available trans-Atlantic sailing routes, caused the city to decline. The first European to reach Timbuktu, Alexander Gordon Laing, did not arrive until 1826, and it was not until the 1890s that Timbuktu was formally incorporated into the French colony of Mali. Today, the city is still inhabited; however, the city is not as geopolitically relevant as it once was.
Djenné
quote: Despite the initial success of the Moroccan occupation, the logistics of controlling a territory across the Sahara soon became too difficult and by 1630 the Saadians had lost control. The collapse of a centralised kingdom able to maintain order over a wide area led to a lack of security and a decline in the movement of traders and scholars. Djenné changed hands several times over the following centuries. The town formed part of the Segou kingdom from 1670 to 1818 and the Massina Empire established by the Fulani ruler Seku Amadu between 1818 and 1861.
posted
Added info below for modern Timbuktu(early modern and modern).
Moroccan conquest
quote:Following the Battle of Tondibi, the city was captured on 30 May 1591 by an expedition of mercenaries, dubbed the Arma. They were sent by the Saadi ruler of Morocco, Ahmad I al-Mansur, and were led by the Spanish Muslim Judar Pasha in search of gold mines. The Arma brought the end of an era of relative autonomy. (see: Pashalik of Timbuktu) The following period brought economic and intellectual decline.
In 1593, Ahmad I al-Mansur cited 'disloyalty' as the reason for arresting, and subsequently killing or exiling, many of Timbuktu's scholars, including Ahmad Baba. Perhaps the city's greatest scholar, he was forced to move to Marrakesh because of his intellectual opposition to the Pasha, where he continued to attract the attention of the scholarly world. Ahmad Baba later returned to Timbuktu, where he died in 1608.
The city's decline continued, with the increasing trans-atlantic trade routes – transporting African slaves, including leaders and scholars of Timbuktu – marginalising Timbuktu's role as a trade and scholarly center. While initially controlling the Morocco – Timbuktu trade routes, Morocco soon cut its ties with the Arma and the grip of the numerous subsequent pashas on the city began losing its strength: Tuareg temporarily took over control in 1737 and the remainder of the 18th century saw various Tuareg tribes, Bambara and Kounta briefly occupy or besiege the city. In this period, the influence of the Pashas, who by then had mixed with the Songhay through intermarriage, never completely disappeared.
This changed in 1826, when the Massina Empire took over control of the city until 1865, when they were driven away by the Toucouleur Empire. Sources conflict on who was in control when the French arrived: Elias N. Saad in 1983 suggests the Soninke Wangara, a 1924 article in the Journal of the Royal African Society mentions the Tuareg, while Africanist John Hunwick does not determine one ruler, but notes several states competing for power 'in a shadowy way' until 1893.
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