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Author Topic: Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations Brenna M. Henn
the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
our friend lyinass is.


 -
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Ish Geber
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http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=008327;p=17#000821


http://www.documentarist.com/mozabite-berber-man-algeria-1860-189

quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:


The Algerian Mozabites have the highest frequencies of U6 in the world
(except for a small sub-population in the Canary Islands}



ALGERIAN MOZABITES


quote:
Originally posted by Doctoris Scientia:

Mozabites
 -
 -





.
 -
Portrait of a Mozabite man
Stock Photo ID:42-24150866
Date Photographed:1949 Corbis Images


 -
(detail) Mozibite family of women, in Africa, in the 1920s
Stock Photo ID:IH155539
Date Photographed:ca. 1920s
Corbis Images


 -

 -

 -

Explorer above are some Algerian Mozabite berbers. They have the highest frequencies of U6 in the world.
If you don't like my selections for average Mozabites then it's still reasonable to get a sense of what an average Mozabite looks like. Anthropology takes note of these things and is not purely genetics.



If Mozabites have the highest frequencies of U6 and I think many people would agree with me that the average Mozabite looks mulatto, many with lighter yellowish brown skin, and looking different the East Africans such as the man below
-and given that they have very high frequencies of M81
doens' this suggest that maybe they are not primarily of East African descent?

 -


I think there is a place for ttaking a look around at what people look like on average in a region (not simply the individuals that we like the looks of) and considering that along with genetics and not soley relying on genetics to replace anthropology. [/QB]


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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ LOL Just because I agree with someone else does not make me their "lackey". You're just mad that Beyoku debunked your dumbass and now vent your intellectual short-comings out on me. [Smile]
quote:
Originally posted by the lyinass,:

If Mozabites have the highest frequencies of U6 and I think many people would agree with me that the average Mozabite looks mulatto, many with lighter yellowish brown skin, and looking different the East Africans such as the man below
-and given that they have very high frequencies of M81
doens' this suggest that maybe they are not primarily of East African descent?

So you seem to be saying that the Mozabites' light complexion comes from their U6 bearing ancestors. But what is the actual proof for this?? Do you have any evidence on how their U6 forebears looked like at all let alone skin color? Apparently you're unaware that there are other Maghrebi and other African populations who carry U6 but are quite darker.

Also the young man in the photo below is NOT 'East African' but a North African Berber from Fezzan Libya or Algeria. I forgot which area.

quote:
 -
Troll Patrol, thanks for posting the pic above. I myself first posted the picture months ago, actually last year in one of the countless threads on North Africans and Berbers but unfortunately I couldn't find it. It probably got deleted.

The reason why I posted it in the first place was to show that he had the same profile as King Jubba.

 -

quote:
Lyinass continues:
I think there is a place for taking a look around at what people look like on average in a region (not simply the individuals that we like the looks of) and considering that along with genetics and not soley relying on genetics to replace anthropology.

And exactly what good will this do. How a people look now may not reflect what their original ancestors looked like. For example, many southern Europeans carry E lineages from black African ancestors yet don't look black at all.

Cosigned strongly!
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beyoku
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quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
Beyoku...? You don't even understand what Beyoku did. he is quoting shyte he doesn't understand. Quoting Dienkess, eg who basically said the same thing as I. Being slick, leaving off data(K2-8) ...thinking it would NOT be noticed.
.

Yawn. YOu have a short attention span and you do not pay attention to details.
A quick google would have brought up the Li et al article which was the source of the Bedouin.
It can be found HERE

********TAKE NOTICE THAT IS THE K=7 ANALYSIS********. I DIDNT INCLUDE THE PREVIOUS K'S BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT IN THE STUDY.

BUT THEY ARE IN THE SUPPORTING MATERIAL:
FOUND HERE

Lets see what else Li. says about K=7 and the Bedouin:

quote:
Individuals from different populations can often be distinguished, including highly
similar ones such as Han Chinese recruited in northern China versus those recruited in the US
(who are mostly southern and central Chinese), Bantus in Kenya versus those in South Africa,
two subgroups of Bedouins, as well as Pathan versus Sindhi, and Brahui versus Makrani.

Hmm, "Two subgroups of Bedouins"......I wounder what is the difference between these two groups..........Lets continue.

quote:
Frappe analysis reveals that, at K = 7 and with a 2% threshold, 21 of the 51 populations derived ancestry from at least two ancestral components. In Figure 1A, the Mozabite from the northern Sahara bear contributions from sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, and Europe; this group in fact originates from the Middle East. In Europe, only the Adygei, who live to the north of the Caucuses, have a significant South/Central Asian component, whereas the Russian individuals have minor contributions from South/Central Asia, East Asia, and America. In the Middle East, a small subset of the Bedouins appears to have substantially higher Middle Eastern ancestry than the Palestinians, Druze and the ***other Bedouins.***
 -

Hmm, which Bedouin have "higher Middle Eastern ancestry" than the other Bedouin? Could it be the ones that stand out with their entire genome being that One component: Brown? Why does Li call that component "Middle Eastern" and not North Africa. Why does Li posit a Middle Eastern origin of the Mozabite?

 -

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xyyman
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The more you post the more you expose how intellectually stunted you are...I would stop post if I were you. That way you can still come off like you know something about genetics. Or at least don't "debate" ME.

You misunderstood Dienkess, then Behar, Henn etc..now this..Li.

In fact I am not sure what your point is with the Bedoiuns...So there are different groups of Bediouns. Some with huge African genetic influence others with less.

That still doesn't negate the fact that light blue is North African and not Southern European as you falsely believed. And as you falsely quoted Dienkess.

All you have done so far is proved that there are several types/groups of Bedoiuns.

Look at Li et al. Let us see how smart you are.

What is odd cf to Behar, Henn, DNAtribes, etc.

Hint. Middle East and North African SNPs...

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by xyyman: There are possibly admixed peoples in the North African coastal cities but we forget this.... J2-Turks
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
.So there are different groups of Bediouns. Some with huge African genetic influence others with less.


well here's a couple of different Bedouins from from the Negev desert in Israel:

 -


^^^ hey look Bedouin group 2 has 86.9 % Arabian affinity and xyyman has taught us that is simply J2,,, er I mean code word for African.
O.K. fine. and they have 8.2 % North African affinity
Well, add the two figures and we get 95 % African !!!
" Some with huge African genetic influence " -xyy


Now let's compare these bedouins from Israel to Mozabites


 -


Mozabites

Arabian 3.8

^^^ o.k. that's really African, moving on,

North African 75.2 % (5.6 kya, but Ok)

Horn 3 %

Nilotic 1.4 %

West African 6 %

Khosian 0.2%

-add it all up.

89.6 % African

____________________________


In other words according to xyyman teaching, Arabian = African,
the Mozabites, Tunisians and Libyans are less African than the previously mentioned bedouin group

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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
North African 75.2 % (5.6 kya, but Ok)

What do you mean with ''5.6kya''? Where do you get this TMRCA(?) figure from?
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
North African 75.2 % (5.6 kya, but Ok)

What do you mean with ''5.6kya''? Where do you get this TMRCA(?) figure from?
reference to M81 tongue in cheek
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Swenet
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Okay, but M81 manifests itself in full genome analysis as what DNA Tribes describe as 'Horn', since M81 is closely related to M78 and other E-M35 subclades that Horners carry. E-M81 has nothing to do with the DNA Tribes 'North Africa' component, which, according to them, is more affiliated with Near Eastern and European ancestry, hence, the 'Saharan-Arabian' meta cluster.

That's what makes certain emotional fanatics in this thread such confused puppies; they keep reiterating this shaky idea about modern Berber speakers comprising a primarily Horner/Afrasan genetically affiliated entity, yet they run away from posting genome-wide analysis in favour of such a fairy tale.

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the lioness,
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 -

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
[QB] Okay, but M81 manifests itself in full genome analysis as what DNA Tribes describe as 'Horn', since M81 is closely related to M78 and other E-M35 subclades that Horners carry.

note horn percentages:

 -

the paternal DNA is largely M81

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Swenet
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I know. Earth to Lioness, are you there? That's what I've trying to tell you; heir haplogroup percentages are not representative.

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
doens' this suggest that maybe they are not primarily of East African descent?

Mozabites should be at least 70% African if their haplogroup percentages are taken literally and one counts mtDNA M1 and U6 as African. As a reference, Oprah is 89% African in her ancestry. It goes without saying that 30% Eurasian ancestry in Mozabites cannot make them as pale as the majority evidently is. It's preposterous, really.

What genomewide analysis shows:

quote:
We show that the Mozabite have inherited roughly
78% ancestry from a European-related population and
22% ancestry from a population related to sub-Saharan
Africans.
Our analysis also shows that the Mozabite
admixture has occurred over a period that began at
least 100 generations ago (~2,800 years ago), and
that has continued into the present day. We are
able to infer small, ancient, ancestry segments
in the Mozabite, and we demonstrate that the
segments show considerable drift relative to
all the other HGDP populations, consistent with
the historical isolation of the Mozabite population.

--Price et al 2009


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the lioness,
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But if the paternal DNA is largely M81 are they ignoring that and only making these statements about European-related populations based on mtDNA ?
Also notice that last quote mentioned European but not Near Eastern you had mentioned in your pervious comment.

 -

^^^ In Coudrays' mitrochondrial analysis he lists a Eurasian affinity greater than North African affinity but not on the basis of U6 and M1. He puts U6 and M1 in the African category , North Africnan to be speciific and still gets a higher maternal Eurasian affinity based on hgs other than U6 and M1.
Interestingly and not corresponding to the DNATribes analysis the SSA affinity is higher than the North African.
However even NA and SSA combined with what Coudray lists as North African (U6 and M1) both combined still don't match the Eurasian contribution.

So how could DNATribes gte this much higher "North African" affinity. I was guessing becuase they are considering not only the mtDNA but the Y and the Y is where that North African M81 would come in.

bascially the main maternal haplogroup that had most influence in placing berbers closer to Eurasians, according to Coudray's samples is H, HV and HV0


The Complex and Diversified Mitochondrial Gene Pool
of Berber Populations

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beyoku
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quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
The more you post the more you expose how intellectually stunted you are...I would stop post if I were you. That way you can still come off like you know something about genetics. Or at least don't "debate" ME.

You misunderstood Dienkess, then Behar, Henn etc..now this..Li.

In fact I am not sure what your point is with the Bedoiuns...So there are different groups of Bediouns. Some with huge African genetic influence others with less.

That still doesn't negate the fact that light blue is North African and not Southern European as you falsely believed. And as you falsely quoted Dienkess.

All you have done so far is proved that there are several types/groups of Bedoiuns.

Look at Li et al. Let us see how smart you are.

What is odd cf to Behar, Henn, DNAtribes, etc.

Hint. Middle East and North African SNPs...

So sad you dont even know you're wrong and why your wrong. [Frown] Even lioness, with an elementary surface knowledge of genetics basically is calling you an idiot. Remember Sardinians are mostly African too. Maybe you should call that green component "African" too and just get on with it.
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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
But if the paternal DNA is largely M81 are they ignoring that and only making these statements about European-related populations based on mtDNA ?

quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
So how could DNATribes gte this much higher "North African" affinity. I was guessing becuase they are considering not only the mtDNA but the Y and the Y is where that North African M81 would come in.

Like I said in the cited piece, it is based on genome-wide SNPs (many many ancestry informative markers), while haplogroups consist of just one ancestry informative marker (e.g., SNPs like M2, M60, M35 or what ever the defining SNP is of that haplogroup). When you take someone's haplogroup, you can only infer one of the potentially many ancestries in their genome. If I have Chinese ancestry (which I have), it may not register in haplogroup analysis because I also have African ancestry, and haplogroups can only depict one. Haplogroup analysis is like peeking into someone's wallet to get an idea of how much money they have, without having access to their safe or bank account where most of their money is (you liked that money metaphor didn't you?). Therefore, haplogroup analysis is inferior to genome-wide analysis when it comes to assigning ancestry. However, because haplogroups are so specific, they're superior to genomewide analysis when it comes to finding individuals who have the same maternal or paternal ancestor you have. In this instance (i.e., when we're trying to find out how much non-African ancestry Bebers have), we're interested in the former, not the latter.

DNA Tribes concludes based on genome-wide analysis that the North African component is = 40-90% in Berber speakers and that this ancestry has affinities with populations outside of Africa

Henn et al 2012 concludes based on genome-wide analysis that the North African component is = 40-90% in Berber speakers and that this ancestry has affinities with populations outside of Africa

Behar et al 2010 concludes based on genome-wide analysis that the North African component is = 40-90% in Berber speakers and that this ancestry has affinities with populations outside of Africa

Price et al 2009 concludes based on genome-wide analysis that the North African component is = 40-90% in Berber speakers and that this ancestry has affinities with populations outside of Africa

etc etc

quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Also notice that last quote mentioned European but not Near Eastern you had mentioned in your pervious comment.

Price et al said ''European related'' because a European sample was their reference sample. Also, there is no difference between 'European related' and 'Near Eastern'.
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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman: There are possibly admixed peoples in the North African coastal cities but we forget this.... J2-Turks
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
.So there are different groups of Bediouns. Some with huge African genetic influence others with less.


well here's a couple of different Bedouins from from the Negev desert in Israel:

 -


^^^ hey look Bedouin group 2 has 86.9 % Arabian affinity and xyyman has taught us that is simply J2,,, er I mean code word for African.
O.K. fine. and they have 8.2 % North African affinity
Well, add the two figures and we get 95 % African !!!
" Some with huge African genetic influence " -xyy


Now let's compare these bedouins from Israel to Mozabites


 -


Mozabites

Arabian 3.8

^^^ o.k. that's really African, moving on,

North African 75.2 % (5.6 kya, but Ok)

Horn 3 %

Nilotic 1.4 %

West African 6 %

Khosian 0.2%

-add it all up.

89.6 % African

____________________________


In other words according to xyyman teaching, Arabian = African,
the Mozabites, Tunisians and Libyans are less African than the previously mentioned bedouin group

After the expulsion of the Moriscos convertos, along with them went Jews who resided at the Moorish empire. These Jews mixed in with the local popualtion of Northern Africa. The most likely scenario is that these Jews originally came from Isreal. Moved to Spain. And from Spain to the Maghreb.
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xyyman
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@ Beyoku

Come on man… I don’t mean to come down on you like that but…you are in the game. You are posting like you understand this stuff…I ask again. Forget about the light blue green stuff


Question: What is odd cf to Behar, Henn, DNAtribes, etc. vs the Li study. What are the stark differences? ANYONE???!!

Hint. Middle East and North African SNPs...


BTW: What Lioness think is meaningless to me. What YOU think is more important. So ….come on now.

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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xyyman
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My job is to deprogram brothas like you.. You still think along “racial” lines. Even after claiming to run 100’s of genetic tests. Some of you are no different to the Euros.

There are “recent” Africans and non-Africans. If you go far back enough we are all Africans.


Adaptation geographical niches dictates what humans look like. The Euros eye-ball and claim admixture of “some” North African groups. Some brotha’s eye ball and also claim admixture because each have their prjuducies of what an African should look like. If PN2 is African then mtDNA H is also African just as M1 and U6. That is how it works.


There is a simple reason why Rameses III looks like how he look, Caucasoid, LOL! and carry sub-saharan line age. It has nothing to do with admixture and such. He is a Saharan just as the other peoples who migrated from the Sahara. Some went East, West, North ……….and South.

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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beyoku
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^ like I said, maybe you should email behar and Henn. We an put both ideas in one email and post the results here.
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xyyman
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I took a long hard look at Li et al…and you know what…This is another example of you demonstrating you don’t know what you are talking about.

Henn, Behar, Dienkess, DNATribes and now Li agrees with me. Bedouins are primarily Africans…why?

Look.!!!! At K7. Light brown is North African. Look at the Mazab. 15% SSA, 65% North African, 20% European. The number agree with Henn, Behar, Dienkess, DNATribes. Green is European. And blue is C/W.Asian?. Need further proof. Look at K7 CS Asia. Brown (North African) and Red(SSA) ALWAYS go together…just like on the African continent and south Arabia. There is perfect correlation of African SNPs in the CSA population. Wherever you find SSA you will also find North Africans.. God man you are thick…or stubborn.

Listen, .the worst thing you can do is mis-represent yourself.

Oh – and 20% European SNP does NOT mean they got the SNPs FROM Europeans. Per Henn the migration was TO Europe. Point is don’t get taken up by the LABELS. They are just that…labels. This thing is about ..ORIGIN. ie direction of migration.

I am going to give it away. FRAPPE, HGDP-CEPH vs Hap-Map. Tell me what you got Bro?

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
If PN2 is African then mtDNA H is also African


why should H have to do with PN2?

Haplogroup H is common in berbers and is the most common mtDNA haplogroup in Europe. Should Europans be renamed as Extended Africans?


 -

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xyyman
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@ Beyoku.
Look. I don't mean to be hard on you. But you seem to have the best intentions but do you think they don't know what they are writing? There is a reason why Behar did NOT call out light blue was European....because it would be a lie. He is not sure. He had no problem calling out Green was European. We can all agree on that. That is why Dr. Scientia said studies like these are more damaging to Euros. But YOU have to understand why and how!!

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:


DNA Tribes concludes based on genome-wide analysis that the North African component is = 40-90% in Berber speakers and that this ancestry has affinities with populations outside of Africa

Henn et al 2012 concludes based on genome-wide analysis that the North African component is = 40-90% in Berber speakers and that this ancestry has affinities with populations outside of Africa

Behar et al 2010 concludes based on genome-wide analysis that the North African component is = 40-90% in Berber speakers and that this ancestry has affinities with populations outside of Africa

Price et al 2009 concludes based on genome-wide analysis that the North African component is = 40-90% in Berber speakers and that this ancestry has affinities with populations outside of Africa

etc etc


Of the oustide of Africa element what percent is due to events before 1000 Bc and what percent after 1000 BC ?
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xyyman
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Good point and great question. But I answered those already....you are suppose to be the intuitive one.

quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
If PN2 is African then mtDNA H is also African


why should H have to do with PN2?

Haplogroup H is common in berbers and is the most common mtDNA haplogroup in Europe. Should Europans be renamed as Extended Africans?


[


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the lioness,
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Just looked at this carefully....you do realize this is not AIM/SNPs? But STRs. Beyoku can explain the significance....
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
If PN2 is African then mtDNA H is also African


why should H have to do with PN2?

Haplogroup H is common in berbers and is the most common mtDNA haplogroup in Europe. Should Europans be renamed as Extended Africans?


 -


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the lioness,
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Europe is an extension of Africa

/close thread

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You got one…14-1. Yeah!! That’s right.!! ALL genes radiate FROM Africa

Here is the proof. No admixture needed!!! I know like a toddler you understand through pictures. So here goes….

Pics!!

And this is from Beyoku’s Li et al. I told you these guys don’t understand what they read.

 -

 -

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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quote:
Originally posted by Xyyman:
blablabla

Can someone tell gramps that this does NOT depict biological distance, and that he doesn't know what on earth he's talking about. Tell him to take his dementia pills.
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:


DNA Tribes concludes based on genome-wide analysis that the North African component is = 40-90% in Berber speakers and that this ancestry has affinities with populations outside of Africa

Henn et al 2012 concludes based on genome-wide analysis that the North African component is = 40-90% in Berber speakers and that this ancestry has affinities with populations outside of Africa

Behar et al 2010 concludes based on genome-wide analysis that the North African component is = 40-90% in Berber speakers and that this ancestry has affinities with populations outside of Africa

Price et al 2009 concludes based on genome-wide analysis that the North African component is = 40-90% in Berber speakers and that this ancestry has affinities with populations outside of Africa

etc etc


Of the oustide of Africa element what percent is due to events before 1000 Bc and what percent after 1000 BC ?
I don't know. Of the outside of Africa genetic component, only the 'North African' component has been dated satisfactorily. See the paper you posted in the OP. Yes, haplogroups have been dated but its not clear, for instance, which Near Eastern haplogroup is associated with what segment of genome-wide near eastern ancestry. What I mean is in Henn et al the Near Eastern ancestry is green, but because the same Near Eastern haplogroups were introduced in recent and ancient times, you don't know how much of this green component can be correlated with recent or ancient Near Eastern haplogroups like NRY J1 and G.
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:

I already did

Then in that case, you have been refuted. Case closed.

quote:
Lol, this loon thinks that the loci that are involved with haplogroup assignment are the same thing as variables.
Dumbass chump, the loci are THE variables of chromosomes. If not the loci, what then is variable on a designated chromosome?

quote:
They're not dumbass, as they're not used as standalone variables that, together, measure more than one thing. In other words, they don't lead to more than one factual haplogroup assignment.
Nobody but another complete idiot will understand what you are even saying here.

quote:
Evidence for this is your horribly misplaced suggestion that the term 'multi-variate' has no applicability outside the field of morphometrics.
You must have stopped taking your meds in the nut house, as you are still making up your own "realities". Our tax dollars wasted!


quote:

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
and their language that is entirely unique to Africa,

What the hell does this have to do with whether their M81 levels are truly representative for how much East African ancestry Maghrebi populations have in their overall genome, that can be attributed to pastoral proto-Berber speakers? Answer: nothing
Your transparently obvious non-reply now takes the form of a self-inflicted confusion expressed in gobbledygook speak. You are indeed stumped to find even a half-way logical explanation for why some supposed European "transplants" would speak not only a language phylum that is obviously entirely unique to Africa, but also entirely unique to Tamazight speakers.

You should meet up with the "Flat Earthers"; your respective sects of dead-headed buffoons should mutually be "good" company.

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The display above and directly below tells the bargain has been payed off. Eurocentrism can no longer deal with the facts we have posted. This really their last resort. [Smile]
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quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
Then in that case, you have been refuted.
Case closed.

Let me guess? Because you say so? That's not how
it works snot nosed brat. Cite the evidence,
right here, right now along with your sources.
Where is the evidence that:

1) diversity in E-M78 in modern Berbers precludes
genetic drift

2) that Berber mtDNA lineages evince large
effective population sizes

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
the loci are THE variables of chromosomes. If not
the loci, what then is variable on a designated
chromosome?

Stop snorting, son. You were told that
haplogroups themselves are variables,
when they are the focal point of a study. You
were told that this is what makes haplogroup
assigment an uni-variate exercise, unlike genome
-wide analysis, which is multi-variate per
definition. The only counterargument your
mentally challenged ass could muster up was the
irrelevant no-brainer and straw man that Y
chromosome and mtDNA have polymorphic sites. The
peanut you call your brain simply cannot compute
the basic fact that the variability of these
polymorphic sites in the human genome doesn't
have anything to do with multi-variate and
uni-variate analysis.

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
Nobody but another complete idiot will
understand what you are even saying
here.

No, YOU don't understand what I'm saying, because
you're a retarded bum who doesn't even know what
a variable is. You're simply too stupid to
understand that the impossibility of yielding
more than one uniparental haplogroup from one
mtDNA sequence or Y Chromosome precludes
haplogroup analysis from being multi-variate
analysis.

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
You must have stopped taking your meds in the nut
house, as you are still making up your own
"realities".

Wait, wait. Let me guess... because YOU say so?
Face it, Explorer, our past discussions have
progressively revealed that you're about as
knowledgeable in these matters as brainless
jellyfish are. You don't even know what a multi
variate and univariate analysis are, for Christ's
sake. And here I am, thinking your absolute low
was when you made up a story about what PCA is.

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
You are indeed stumped to find even a half-way
logical explanation for why some supposed
European "transplants" would speak not only a
language phylum that is obviously entirely
unique to Africa, but also entirely unique to
Tamazight speakers.

You stupid bum. Despite your fanatic make
believe efforts, neither their language nor their
levels of E-M81 is going to make them more
biologically allied with other E-M35 carrying
Afrasan speakers than the ~10% their genome says
they factually are.

Explain this, brainless bum:

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
While you're at it, if drift isn't at work here,
explain the discrepancy between the extreme
rarity of ancestral clades in between E-M81 and
E-M35, even though the former only emerged
~5.6kya from the said predecessors.

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
Then demonstrate that the paternal East African
component brought there by Neolithic proto-Berber
speakers (e.g., manifested as E-M81 in Y
Chromosomal analysis) re-emerges as East African
affiliated ancestry when other ancestry
informative markers are consulted


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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:

Let me guess? Because you say so? That's not how
it works snot nosed brat.

If you had a brain you would not have to guess how you were refuted, chump.

quote:
Cite the evidence,
right here, right now along with your sources.
Where is the evidence that:

1) diversity in E-M78 in modern Berbers precludes
genetic drift

2) that Berber mtDNA lineages evince large
effective population sizes

fuckhead, diversity of E-M78 chromosomes, along with E-M81, does not preclude genetic drift, but it does weaken your theory that Maghrebi populations' paternal gene pool is lopsidedly "African", because of genetic drift.

E-M81 for example, a dominant marker in most Tamazight populations, requires the same ancestral clade as E-M78: E-M35! That's all that is warranted to explain E-M81 in Tamazight populations. And "guess" what? Upstream E-M35 clades are very rare in Europe. The diversity of E-M78, supplemented by that of E-M81, in coastal northwestern Africa eliminates the need of attainment just by "genetic drift" secondary to a foreign introduction, as that diversity would not have been possible without the presence of E-M35 upstream clades.

Genetic drift only has a profound effect in a population of fairly small size. That does not mean genetic drift ceases to occur; just that its impact is not so dramatic towards homogenization. Now, because you are such an idiot, I have to explain this to you.

For the same reason, the fairly diverse maternal gene pool of Maghrebi populations is not reflective of a population that suddenly blossomed out of a small group that underwent intense genetic drift action. PS: Counter to your thinking-through-the-asshole, U6 and M1 just by themselves hardly constitute a "diverse" gene pool, and especially, when they generally make small portions of a gene pool.

quote:
Stop snorting, son. You were told that
haplogroups themselves are variables,
when they are the focal point of a study.

Stop rambling through your ass. Stuff coming out of that shithole makes even less sense than the black smelly waste that comes outta there; henceforth, I couldn't give a hoot about what you "tell" me.


quote:
You
were told that this is what makes haplogroup
assigment an uni-variate exercise, unlike genome
-wide analysis, which is multi-variate per
definition. The only counterargument your
mentally challenged ass could muster up was the
irrelevant no-brainer and straw man that Y
chromosome and mtDNA have polymorphic sites. The
peanut you call your brain simply cannot compute
the basic fact that the variability of these
polymorphic sites in the human genome doesn't
have anything to do with multi-variate and
uni-variate analysis.

The only thing the hogwash above communicates about your thick fuckhead, is that you don't know the difference between a "marker" and "variability".

Serving as a "marker" does not render either Y-DNA (or any other nuclear DNA for that matter) or mtDNA "univariable". Stop using your fat ass as a tool for thinking!

quote:
You're simply too stupid to
understand that the impossibility of yielding
more than one uniparental haplogroup from one
mtDNA sequence or Y Chromosome precludes
haplogroup analysis from being multi-variate
analysis.

You have it twisted. I'd be certifiably stupid only if I actually understood your stupid talk.

quote:
Wait, wait. Let me guess...
Let me save you the trouble of "guessing" numbnut: The notion about univariate vs. multivariate applying to just cranial study was concocted only in your thinking-retardant skull. It has absolutely nothing to do with what was said in the real world.

quote:
You stupid bum. Despite your fanatic make
believe efforts, neither their language nor their
levels of E-M81 is going to make them more
biologically allied with other E-M35 carrying
Afrasan speakers than the ~10% their genome says
they factually are.

Still unable to forge a reason to wish away the Tamazight language phylum. You are too dirt stupid to even come up with a dumb reason to explain it away. LOL
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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
Cite the evidence, right here, right now along
with your sources. Where is the evidence that:

1) diversity in E-M78 in modern Berbers precludes
genetic drift

You failed epically.

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
Cite the evidence, right here, right now along
with your sources. Where is the evidence that:

2) that Berber mtDNA lineages evince large
effective population sizes

You failed here too.

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
While you're at it, if drift isn't at work here,
explain the discrepancy between the extreme
rarity of ancestral clades in between E-M81 and
E-M35, even though the former only emerged
~5.6kya from the said predecessors.

Here, you failed more than three times in a row.

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
Then demonstrate that the paternal East African
component brought there by Neolithic proto-Berber
speakers (e.g., manifested as E-M81 in Y
Chromosomal analysis) re-emerges as East African
affiliated ancestry when other ancestry
informative markers are consulted

Same here: you failed more than 3 times in a row.

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
Stop rambling through your ass

That's what it sounds like to you, no doubt; the
equivalent of a flat-earther in the field of
genetics who thinks the difference between
uni-variate and multi-variate analysis lies in
how inherently polymorphic something is, rather
than the amount of chosen categories that
researchers decide to sort individuals or objects
into. Mentally imbalanced bum, educate yourself:

Multivariate statistics is a form of
statistics encompassing the simultaneous
observation and analysis of more than one outcome
variable.
The application of multivariate
statistics is multivariate analysis.


Univariate analysis is the simplest form of
quantitative (statistical) analysis.[1] The
analysis is carried out with the description of a
single variable in terms of the applicable unit
of analysis.[1]
For example, if the variable
"age" was the subject of the analysis, the
researcher would look at how many subjects fall
into given age attribute categories.


quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
you don't know the difference between a "marker"
and "variability".

Variability wasn't even a contention here. You
THINK it is, because your mental retardation is
leading you to think uni-variate vs multi-variate
analysis is an issue of whether some polymorphic
locus inherently varies mildly or a lot, hence,
your bewildered crack induced discourse into
variable loci in the genome, hence your confused
rejection of what I'm telling you, hence you
being exposed, for the umpteenth time now, for
knowing next to nothing about Physical
Anthropology.

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
Still unable to forge a reason to wish away the
Tamazight language phylum.

Now you're resuming your tenacious habit of lying
through your filthy canary yellow teeth again,
aren't you? I've clearly stated that this language
was spoken by pastoral Proto-Berber speakers who
brought E-M81 to the Maghrebi genepool from
Eastern Africa. STOP LYING, you filthy pig.

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quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
E-M81 for example, a dominant marker in most
Tamazight populations, requires the same
ancestral clade as E-M78: E-M35!
That's all
that is warranted to explain E-M81 in Tamazight
populations. And "guess" what? Upstream E-M35
clades are very rare in Europe.
The diversity
of E-M78, supplemented by that of E-M81, in
coastal northwestern Africa eliminates the need
of attainment just by "genetic drift"
secondary to a foreign introduction, as that
diversity would not have been possible without
the presence of E-M35 upstream clades.

Now people can really see that you're
crazy. So crazy, in fact, that you're on the
verge of becoming a bedridden vegetable, being
administered pureed foods. You just like talking
to no one in particular, and counter-argue views
that no one expressed. Keep it up jackass.  - Keep
showing the forum how retarded you really are.

 -

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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:

what it sounds like to you, no doubt

If it looks like shyt, smells like shyt, then that's what it is: shyt!


quote:

uni-variate and multi-variate analysis lies in
how inherently polymorphic something is

At it again, chump: wondering off in your own "realities" instead of the real world. You need to have somebody else, who can read, read notes for you. "how inherently polymorphic something is" is a flight of your own fantasy.


quote:
Variability wasn't even a contention here. You
THINK it is

No kidding? Of course it's not "a contention". It is an element of your confusion. You can't distinguish between what constitutes a "marker" and what constitutes "variability".

quote:
Now you're resuming your tenacious habit of lying
through your filthy canary yellow teeth again,
aren't you? I've clearly stated that this language
was spoken by pastoral Proto-Berber speakers who
brought E-M81 to the Maghrebi genepool from
Eastern Africa. STOP LYING, you filthy pig

You've "stated" a shyt load of mindless babble.

Here are some simple facts to punish you with, little chump:

E-M81 is THE dominant paternal coastal Maghrebi marker! This would make them the descendants of "proto-Berber" speakers, not their "students", you moron.

E-M81 is thus characteristic of Maghrebi populations.

Your ass-wipe babble about some "foreign" element introducing this only therefore serves as a quick reminder of what an air-headed lame duck fuckwad you are.

Tamazight is largely unique to Maghrebi populations, with the exception of certain Tamazight speakers in East Africa (whom no less you think were also taught how to speak "Tamazight" by mysterious "foreign" source, LOL)...which makes sense given an ultimate east African origin. Hence, there is no other group to point to, as the "teachers" of "Tamazight" to Maghrebi populations.

There is no fundamental "Indo-European" substratum in Tamazight. Whereas "Indo-European" is the dominant language phylum of Europe.

There is no fundamental "Semitic" substratum in Tamazight. Whereas "Semitic" is the ONLY "Afro-Asiatic" phylum spoken outside mainland Africa, and it is not Europe at that.

Granted Tamazight is a sibling phylum of other extant "Afro-Asiatic" phylums, it is however an original language phylum in its own right.

Tamazight is original only to the African continent.

Tamazight is also original only to Tamazight speakers.

In other words: Tamazight is the primary tongue of "Afro-Asiatic" Maghrebi populations; it is not spoken outside of Amazigh populations.


Conclusion:

You are pressed to fall back on tidbits that make our job, i.e. yours and mine, easier: making a complete idiot of you.

Whenever you make a stupid move of inadvertently falsifying yourself, like in the mindless babble above, that cannot be a bad thing, chump.

This brings us right back to where we started:

You being unable to wish away the Tamazight language phylum, the primary language of Maghrebi populations...in that shitheaded bid to make them comply with your quackery about "European transplants".

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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
E-M81 for example, a dominant marker in most
Tamazight populations, requires the same
ancestral clade as E-M78: E-M35!
That's all
that is warranted to explain E-M81 in Tamazight
populations. And "guess" what? Upstream E-M35
clades are very rare in Europe.
The diversity
of E-M78, supplemented by that of E-M81, in
coastal northwestern Africa eliminates the need
of attainment just by "genetic drift"
secondary to a foreign introduction, as that
diversity would not have been possible without
the presence of E-M35 upstream clades.

Now people can really see that you're
crazy.

These nameless "people" would have to be your fellow knuckleheaded chumps. Otherwise it should dawn on them that the only obvious craziness here is how you highlight what are obviously rational prep-schooling points but leave them unfalsified.

Bitch talk about my person is not an act of falsifying. I will grant you, however, that it does score you some emotional points.


quote:
You just like talking
to no one in particular

If by "no one" you are referring to yourself, then that may be an astute observation on your part: you are a "no body".

quote:

, and counter-argue views
that no one expressed. Keep it up jackass.

That's the only way it can be, chump: counter-views would have to the facts that you have not expressed, obviously. Duh!

It is definitely a job I intend to keep up, fuckwad. [Wink]

quote:

 -

Coming at me with stupid cartoons is the best you can do as a comeback "argument"? LOL
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Swenet
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Everyone can see you're a filthy coward. You're
desperately looking for material to fill up your
post, to make it seem to the outside world that
you're not in your usual role; on the victim end
of a severe thrashing. The contents of your posts
have all the trappings of a thrashed bum, who is
in denial of having been routed:

1) You reply to segments of my post that aren't
even contentions, whenever you're not in denial,
knocking down strawmen or lying through your
filthy ass teeth that is.

2) You're not even debating, you're just
substituting what you KNOW you can't do (refute
what I'm saying), with pathetic bantering little
b!tch-like, comments.

3) You reply selectively and the content of your
posts progressively lose volume and relevance to
the subject matter at hand.


Here, below, the demented pig went on record
uttering the patently stupid claim that the
difference between univariate and multivariate
analysis lies in the variability of genetic
material. [Eek!] Not only that, note the
contradiction in terms. The filthy dumbass pig
says an ''uniparental marker'', which essentially
means 'single parent inherited marker',
is not a single category used to classify
individuals (univariate analysis):

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
To the chump above (swenet), uniparental markers
are not univariate entities.
They span
multiple loci, some more variable than others, as
any other segment of the human genome.

The demented pig even went as far as fabricating
that uni/multivariate analysis is restricted to
cranio-facial analysis, even though it's THE way
of scientifically studying subjects and their
taxonomic relationships with other subjects. The
filthy pig is even ignorant of the most basic and
rudimentary processes of science, from Principal
Component analysis to uni/multivariate analysis:

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
This is not cranio-morphometric analysis
where individual features are examined for their
variability.

 -

It'll be a cold day in hell before you'll refute
any of the below, and your bummy demented ass
knows it.


quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
That's what it sounds like to you, no doubt; the
equivalent of a flat-earther in the field of
genetics who thinks the difference between
uni-variate and multi-variate analysis lies in
how inherently polymorphic something is, rather
than the amount of chosen categories that
researchers decide to sort individuals or objects
into. Mentally imbalanced bum, educate yourself:

Multivariate statistics is a form of
statistics encompassing the simultaneous
observation and analysis of more than one outcome
variable.
The application of multivariate
statistics is multivariate analysis.


Univariate analysis is the simplest form of
quantitative (statistical) analysis.[1] The
analysis is carried out with the description of a
single variable in terms of the applicable unit
of analysis.[1]
For example, if the
variable "age" was the subject of the analysis,
the researcher would look at how many subjects
fall into given age attribute categories.

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
Cite the evidence, right here, right now along
with your sources. Where is the evidence that:

1) diversity in E-M78 in modern Berbers precludes
genetic drift

You failed epically.

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
Cite the evidence, right here, right now along
with your sources. Where is the evidence that:

2) that Berber mtDNA lineages evince large
effective population sizes

You failed here too.

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
While you're at it, if drift isn't at work here,
explain the discrepancy between the extreme
rarity of ancestral clades in between E-M81 and
E-M35, even though the former only emerged
~5.6kya from the said predecessors.

Here, you failed more than four times in a row.

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
Then demonstrate that the paternal East African
component brought there by Neolithic proto-Berber
speakers (e.g., manifested as E-M81 in Y
Chromosomal analysis) re-emerges as East African
affiliated ancestry when other ancestry
informative markers are consulted

Same here: you failed more than four times in a row.
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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:

Everyone can see you're a filthy coward. You're
desperately looking for material to fill up your
post, to make it seem to the outside world that
you're not in your usual role; on the victim end
of a severe thrashing. The contents of your posts
have all the trappings of a thrashed bum, who is
in denial of having been routed

Your PMS-juices are obviously irritating you under the diaper. Where's the substance, chump?

quote:
Here, below, the demented pig went on record
uttering the patently stupid claim that the
difference between univariate and multivariate
analysis lies in the variability of genetic
material.

Patently stupid is when you can't tell your figment (above) apart from reality...

E.g. I say the Earth is spherical, then you say it is flat. I correct you, but you still say it's flat. It doesn't end there: Your dead-weight head concocts a reality wherein I too supposedly consider the Earth flat. Misery loves company.

I must have corrected you a gazillion times. Get an educated-help to read for you, cinderella.

quote:
Not only that, note the
contradiction in terms. The filthy dumbass pig
says an ''uniparental marker'', which essentially
means 'single parent inherited marker',
is not a single category used to classify
individuals (univariate analysis)

First your confusion was over "uniparental" and "univariate", then over "marker" and "variability", and now it's over "univariate" and "category". Where does your shameless stupidity end? Nowhere, that's where.


And yes, still no stride in wishing away the Tamazight language. It's too significant of an issue for a common crackpot like you to just wish away.

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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Also Explorer wasn't it you not long ago who when asked about where do all these tawny skinned North Africans come from you would say white women slaves of tha Barbary? -and Troll Patrol adding expulsion of the Moriscos ?

It if that is the case then what are the foreign haplogroups of berbers?

With all the screen distortion and other noise, this escaped my attention.

First, I'd like to point out that your question is based on a fiction. This then cancels out your follow up question.

I've never made the claim that "all tawny skinned North Africans come from white slaves of the barbary". It's your fabrication.

I did however note, that a good amount of what is considered "foreign" ancestry, in the maternal gene pool, can likely be attributable to a slavery institution that largely favored females. And before you go bungling that up too, I am not saying that "all" the maternal gene pool is attributable to slavery.

While your follow up question was based on a false premise, I'll offer a reply nonetheless: The signature of the above, would most likely find expression in those maternal haplogroup that appear to be a subset of the western European distribution (e.g. elements of H and V clades).

Next time make sure you are asking a question of me that is rooted on something I've actually said.

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Ish Geber
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^ the problem with this individual lioness is, repetitiveness.


This axact same question has popped up numerous times before, and was answered/ addressed numerous times before.


However, a while from now it will pop up again. And the picture spamming will happen all over again.


The same goes for hair texture. And every other trait that is unusual to the stereotype once created by Eurocentrism on Africans.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:

I did however note, that a good amount of what is considered "foreign" ancestry, in the maternal gene pool, can likely be attributable to a slavery institution that largely favored females.

what do you mean favored?

sorry about attributing "all tawny". I assume you would agree that some tawny skinnedness in North Africans is attributable to European input

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
maternal haplogroup that appear to be a subset of the western European distribution (e.g. elements of H and V clades).


would you agree that North Africans have more European ancestry than other Africans?

__________________________________


Below a figure from Tomb of Rameses III Book of Gates:
 -
 -


Here are two of the Libyans:

 -  -


Heroditus describes two types of Libyans.
In some the art you see Libyans
reddish brown in others lighter tan or light yellowish or "tawny"
would you say that because these depictions of Libyans as 1186–1155 BC that it is not due to any
non-African elements such as Sea People etc.?

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typeZeiss
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:

I did however note, that a good amount of what is considered "foreign" ancestry, in the maternal gene pool, can likely be attributable to a slavery institution that largely favored females.

what do you mean favored?

sorry about attributing "all tawny". I assume you would agree that some tawny skinnedness in North Africans is attributable to European input

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
maternal haplogroup that appear to be a subset of the western European distribution (e.g. elements of H and V clades).


would you agree that North Africans have more European ancestry than other Africans?

__________________________________


Below a figure from Tomb of Rameses III Book of Gates:
 -
 -


Here are two of the Libyans:

 -  -


Heroditus describes two types of Libyans.
In some the art you see Libyans
reddish brown in others lighter tan or light yellowish or "tawny"
would you say that because these depictions of Libyans as 1186–1155 BC that it is not due to any
non-African elements such as Sea People etc.?

can you give exact qoutes and reference to where Herodotus makes reference to two types of Libyans? I have his book but I don't remember making a reference to two types of libyans. I does say that there are Greek and Carthaginian colonies in North Africa and that those are not natives. THen he goes on to talk about the natives, but at no point do I remember him making mention of color.
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the lioness,
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On second thought disregard Herodotus
as per these Rameses III Images
becasue they are from 1186–1155 BC and Herodotus Histories is 430 BC

__________________________________________

But anyway:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/herod-libya1.asp


Book IV.168-198

(second oaragraph from bottom

One thing more also I can add c
oncerning this region, namely, that, so far as our knowledge reaches, four nations, and no more,
inhabit it; and two of these nations are indigenous,
while two are not. The two indigenous
are the Libyans and Ethiopians,
who dwell respectively in the north and the south of Libya. The Phoenicians and the Greek are in-comers.

Book IV.168-198

(first paragraph)

The Libyans dwell in the order
which I will now describe.
Beginning on the side of Egypt,
the first Libyans are the Adyrmachidae.
These people have, in most points,
the same customs as the Egyptians,
but use the costume of the Libyans.
Their women wear on each leg
a ring made of bronze;
they let their hair grow long, and when
they catch any vermin on their persons,
bite it and throw it away. In this they differ
from all the other Libyans.
They are also the only tribe with whom the
custom obtains of bringing all women
about to become brides before the king,
that he may choose such as
are agreeable to him.
The Adyrmachidae extend from the
borders of Egypt to the harbor called Port Plynus.
Next to the Adyrmachidae are the Gilligammae,
who inhabit the country westward
as far as the island of Aphrodisias.
Off this tract is the island of Platea,
which the Cyrenaeans colonized.
Here too, upon the mainland, are Port Menelaus,
and Aziris, where the Cyrenaeans once lived.
The Silphium begins to grow in this region,
extending from the island of Platea
on the one side to the mouth
of the Syrtis on the other.
The customs of the Gilligammae
are like those of the rest of their countrymen.

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Djehuti
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^ LOL Good question. I await a proper citing of source from lioness.
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

Here are two of the Libyans:

 -  -

^ Yet it's plain for all to see that the two Libyans above show traces of darker paint. Unless of course you want to argue that it's 'dirt' or 'smudge'. Suffice to say there are other tomb images showing Libyans with the exact same hair style and attire but with dark/black skin color similar to Egyptians.
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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

^ the problem with this individual lioness is, repetitiveness.

This axact same question has popped up numerous times before, and was answered/ addressed numerous times before.

However, a while from now it will pop up again. And the picture spamming will happen all over again.

The same goes for hair texture. And every other trait that is unusual to the stereotype once created by Eurocentrism on Africans.

Yup. That is her M.O. alright. Ask questions answered (debunked) before and wait to repeat them again next time as if the answers will change! LOL [Big Grin]
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

what do you mean favored?

It is as plain as day. You don't know what "favor" means?...as in "preference".

quote:
sorry about attributing "all tawny". I assume you would agree that some tawny skinnedness in North Africans is attributable to European input
Making false assumptions is a good way to start baseless rumors, especially when they are repeated over and over.

As for light skin, surely the impact of gene flow from the more northern latitudes has to be a factor in the range of skin pigment relaxation in coastal north African populations. However, as I have said, even without gene flow, the populations of the Maghreb will still likely be "light" in their skin pigment content compared to the equatorial-proximate populations. Perhaps they could have been as "light" as the KhoiSan on average, who live in more or less similar geo-climatic environment, without the interference of external gene flow from outside.

quote:
would you agree that North Africans have more European ancestry than other Africans?
Coastal North Africa is closer to Europe than other parts of Africa. Is it not?

A more substantive question would be: Agreeing to such a prospect (in your question) would mean what precisely?


quote:


Heroditus describes two types of Libyans.
In some the art you see Libyans
reddish brown in others lighter tan or light yellowish or "tawny"
would you say that because these depictions of Libyans as 1186–1155 BC that it is not due to any
non-African elements such as Sea People etc.?

I have no idea who these "Libyans" are, other than what the ancient Egyptian texts tell us about them. I don't even know how much connection, if any, they have with contemporary coastal north African populations. I therefore cannot answer your question, but maybe you can fill me in on the ancestry of these historic figures?
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
I did however note, that a good amount of what is considered "foreign" ancestry, in the maternal gene pool, can likely be attributable to a slavery institution that largely favored females.


The Cambridge World History of Slavery: Volume 3, AD 1420-AD 1804

 -

However "favored" manifests this book claims that whiteness in Algiers is attributable to female slaves however they go on to say as much as ten times as many male slaves were taken. So they took many more males despite what was "favored".


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
would you agree that North Africans have more European ancestry than other Africans?

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:

Coastal North Africa is closer to Europe than other parts of Africa. Is it not?

A more substantive question would be: Agreeing to such a prospect (in your question) would mean what precisely?


It would mean that the average Maghrebian of which over 90% of the population resides in coastal areas have more European ancestry than othe Africans


quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:


Heroditus describes two types of Libyans.
In some the art you see Libyans
reddish brown in others lighter tan or light yellowish or "tawny"
would you say that because these depictions of Libyans as 1186–1155 BC that it is not due to any
non-African elements such as Sea People etc.?

I have no idea who these "Libyans" are, other than what the ancient Egyptian texts tell us about them. I don't even know how much connection, if any, they have with contemporary coastal north African populations. I therefore cannot answer your question, but maybe you can fill me in on the ancestry of these historic figures?
Similarly one could question any connection between Iberomaurusian/Capsians hunter foragers of the green sahara
and modern Maghrebians

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Explorador
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

The Cambridge World History of Slavery: Volume 3, AD 1420-AD 1804

 -

However "favored" manifests this book claims that whiteness in Algiers is attributable to female slaves however they go on to say as much as ten times as many male slaves were taken. So they took many more males despite what was "favored".

Where did these "men" go? Back to Europe, while the females supposedly stayed behind?

There are many differences between you and me, and here's one of them: You take for granted that something is a fact, just because it happens to be published in a book or a journal.

It's also noticeable that your citation attempts to make a direct comparison between Maghrebi slavery and North American slavery. It appears that the author is driving at drawing up a more cruel handling of Europeans captives than that of African captives in America. To that effect, throwing in an overestimation of the male component, cannot possibly be disadvantageous?

Note that I have based assessment on what real time DNA material is telling me, not what some story writer is saying. I apply the history of slavery in the Maghreb thereof, merely as supporting material.


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

It would mean that the average Maghrebian of which over 90% of the population resides in coastal areas have more European ancestry than othe Africans

I can imagine two possible things about the fuss you are making over "European ancestry" in the Maghreb:

1. Are you trying to tell me that every Maghrebi person must have European ancestry?

2. Are you trying to tell me that Maghrebi populations are not really African?

What's the deal here; let's cut to the chase!

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