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» EgyptSearch Forums » Egyptology » EgyptSearch...."Afrocentric haven" (Page 3)

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Author Topic: EgyptSearch...."Afrocentric haven"
Son of Ra
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:
quote:
Originally posted by Faheemdunkers:
quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:
And Django Unchained actually showed a black man in a positive light and that movie was written by a white person I believe.

Have you seen the film? He does nothing but kill innocent people, including a woman.

Now can you imagine a film made of the reverse? Where a white guy goes on a killing spree, slicing up blacks? It would be accused of 'racism'...

Um...There are a lot of those films...And when I mean positive light I mean a black man actually 'winning at the end'.

And no where in the film did he kill 'innocent people'?

ROTFLMAO [Big Grin]

Son, you do realize you are arguing with a white supremacist idiot par examplar?? According to this nutcase slave holders who kidnap and rape women are somehow "innocent". But I'm sure in his warped mind they're innocent so long as their victims are black. Oh and let's be frank even after the abolishment of slavery, many black women still fell prey to rape and sexual assault by white men. So contrary to what the idiot says apparently black women were very 'wanted' by white racists. [Embarrassed] [/QB]

Finally someone who gets it...
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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Fartheadbonkers:

No one takes your data serious retard. All you've done is created a few crappy drawings on paint tool. Your "references" are all bogus, as already revealed. Most of the time they don't support what you say.

LMAO By 'database' Zarahan wasn't referring to his own personally but ALL the data presented over the years on Egyptsearch which was debated. Both bio-anthropological as well as archaeological and there is no way getting around it. Such data is being dispersed by P.K. Manansala (an Asian man) in Asia as well as Chinese and Japanese authors in Asia and even Europeans authors.

quote:
None of your data has entered peer-reviewed journals. You're left with paint tool and a shitty website "es reloaded".
Virtually ALL of Zarahan's data comes from peer-reviewed journals you nitwit!! And unlike YOU his data post-dates the 1960s LMAO [Big Grin]

quote:
In 50 years or whenever when you die, your site will have changed nothing. What you afroloons fail to understand is that afrocentrism is pseudo-history. Academia will always reject it. Creating diagrams on paint tool, and creating webforums via proboards isn't going to change anything.

"The data is well in hand and expanding every day." - Its so sad you think your "data" actually means something. lmao.

Again it's not just Zarahan's personal collection of data but ALL scientific and historical data revealing the TRUTH!

One of the European scholars furthering this advancement is a countrywoman of YOURS-- a fellow Brit!!

The Fitzwilliam Museum: An African Approach to Egypt

^ The above website and museum was started by and curated by yours truly Dr. Sally-Ann Ashton.

part 1

part 2

No doubt your warped mind would reason that she is doing this for some social agenda of political correctness or worse-- that she's a 'self-hating' white who hates her own people and has a thing for black men! LMAO [Big Grin]

Whatever motive you may giver her, I assure you what she teaches is based on FACTUAL evidence of the exact same kind Zarahan has!!

 -

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Son of Ra
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^^^I remember watching those two videos.
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Djehuti
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^ Indeed, I also recall the nasty and vicious attacks Dr. Ashton received for those lectures as well as for her whole work in revealing Egypt's black African identity. She was called a "race traitor" and a white woman who "probably has a thing for black men and probably has a children by a black man"! These are just two of the benign comments I read from the Euronuts and all because she didn't fall into their ranks. [Embarrassed]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, racism is a mental disorder. And we have Faheembonkers to prove it. [Big Grin]

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Mikemikev
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quote:
Son, you do realize you are arguing with a white supremacist idiot par examplar?? According to this nutcase slave holders who kidnap and rape women are somehow "innocent". But I'm sure in his warped mind they're innocent so long as their victims are black. Oh and let's be frank even after the abolishment of slavery, many black women still fell prey to rape and sexual assault by white men. So contrary to what the idiot says apparently black women were very 'wanted' by white racists.
Most slave owners were not 'white', but 'black'. Don't also forget it was 'blacks' who sold them in the first place:

quote:
The first slave owner in American history was black.

Anthony Johnson came to the American colonies in August, 1619 as an indentured servant. In 1623 Johnson had completed his indenture and was recognized as a free negro. In 1651 he acquired 250 acres of land in Virginia, later adding another 250 acres; a sizable holding at the time.

Free blacks commonly owned black slaves in the antebellum South.

There were thousands of black slave owners in the South.

"In 1830 there were 3,775 such slaveholders in the South who owned 12,740 black slaves"

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ef2_1336262149

In 1860 the largest slave owner in South Carolina was William Ellison, a 'Black' plantation owner.

Zaharan's "role models" again...

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Mikemikev
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
One of the European scholars furthering this advancement is a countrywoman of YOURS-- a fellow Brit!!

The Fitzwilliam Museum: An African Approach to Egypt

^ The above website and museum was started by and curated by yours truly Dr. Sally-Ann Ashton.

part 1

part 2


They are not trained in classics, and this is evident from the video. Their degree is in archaeology, with a thesis in sculpture.

Yes - I don't take a word they say serious. If you want an honest 'Black' classical scholar on the ancient Egyptians look up Frank Snowden, who pointed out the majority were not Black, but Caucasoid and hybrids, and called for 'Blacks' to embrace their sub-saharan african roots. He acknowledged North Africa is Caucasoid history.

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Son of Ra
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Indeed, I also recall the nasty and vicious attacks Dr. Ashton received for those lectures as well as for her whole work in revealing Egypt's black African identity. She was called a "race traitor" and a white woman who "probably has a thing for black men and probably has a children by a black man"! These are just two of the benign comments I read from the Euronuts and all because she didn't fall into their ranks. [Embarrassed]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, racism is a mental disorder. And we have Faheembonkers to prove it. [Big Grin]

Than this guy must REALLY be a race traitor...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98viuKQnIWU&list=FLOi5yL1B9aLEWSTjyIwcWLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po1RGmzfnNY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWS1oUb9PqM

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Fartheadbonkers:

Most slave owners were not 'white', but 'black'. Don't also forget it was 'blacks' who sold them in the first place:

LOL I suggest you stick to your own British history since your ignorance on American history betrays you.

Most slave owners in America were white of course, since most property owning citizens in America were white, dummy! As for blacks selling them in the first place, you obviously don't know that in Africa the institute of slavery was different from that practiced in America. Slaves in Africa were foreign prisoners or war or from enemy nations but in status were no different from servants and still had certain rights. They could even buy their freedom. It was only in America particularly due to racist white idiots like yourself who see blacks as sub-human were they treated harshly. The same was true for another black African society called Kemet (Egypt) where slaves were never a significant population and largely consisted of prisoners of war. The height of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade was due to the result of feudal wars between African states peddled by European colonialists in which they exchanged slaves for guns. Using such a tactic, the Euro-colonialist were able to divide and conquer. The British used a similar system in China except instead they traded opium for guns and gun powder.

quote:
The first slave owner in American history was black.

Anthony Johnson came to the American colonies in August, 1619 as an indentured servant. In 1623 Johnson had completed his indenture and was recognized as a free negro. In 1651 he acquired 250 acres of land in Virginia, later adding another 250 acres; a sizable holding at the time.

Free blacks commonly owned black slaves in the antebellum South.

There were thousands of black slave owners in the South.

"In 1830 there were 3,775 such slaveholders in the South who owned 12,740 black slaves"

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ef2_1336262149

In 1860 the largest slave owner in South Carolina was William Ellison, a 'Black' plantation owner.

Zaharan's "role models" again... [/QB]

Actually your source is somewhat in accurate. Because the first slaves in America were WHITE indentured servants who tried to escape their debt bondage and thus were made slaves. If Anthony Johnson was the first slave owner then he owned whites i.e. your British cousins. LOL

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/forgottenslaves.html

Up to one-half of all the arrivals in the American colonies were Whites slaves and they were America's first slaves. These Whites were slaves for life, long before Blacks ever were. This slavery was even hereditary. White children born to White slaves were enslaved too.

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Son of Ra
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by Fartheadbonkers:

Most slave owners were not 'white', but 'black'. Don't also forget it was 'blacks' who sold them in the first place:

LOL I suggest you stick to your own British history since your ignorance on American history betrays you.

Most slave owners in America were white of course, since most property owning citizens in America were white, dummy! As for blacks selling them in the first place, you obviously don't know that in Africa the institute of slavery was different from that practiced in America. Slaves in Africa were foreign prisoners or war or from enemy nations but in status were no different from servants and still had certain rights. They could even buy their freedom. It was only in America particularly due to racist white idiots like yourself who see blacks as sub-human were they treated harshly. The same was true for another black African society called Kemet (Egypt) where slaves were never a significant population and largely consisted of prisoners of war. The height of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade was due to the result of feudal wars between African states peddled by European colonialists in which they exchanged slaves for guns. Using such a tactic, the Euro-colonialist were able to divide and conquer. The British used a similar system in China except instead they traded opium for guns and gun powder.

quote:
The first slave owner in American history was black.

Anthony Johnson came to the American colonies in August, 1619 as an indentured servant. In 1623 Johnson had completed his indenture and was recognized as a free negro. In 1651 he acquired 250 acres of land in Virginia, later adding another 250 acres; a sizable holding at the time.

Free blacks commonly owned black slaves in the antebellum South.

There were thousands of black slave owners in the South.

"In 1830 there were 3,775 such slaveholders in the South who owned 12,740 black slaves"

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ef2_1336262149

In 1860 the largest slave owner in South Carolina was William Ellison, a 'Black' plantation owner.

Zaharan's "role models" again...

Actually your source is somewhat in accurate. Because the first slaves in America were WHITE indentured servants who tried to escape their debt bondage and thus were made slaves. If Anthony Johnson was the first slave owner then he owned whites i.e. your British cousins. LOL

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/forgottenslaves.html

Up to one-half of all the arrivals in the American colonies were Whites slaves and they were America's first slaves. These Whites were slaves for life, long before Blacks ever were. This slavery was even hereditary. White children born to White slaves were enslaved too. [/QB]

 -
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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Fartheadbonkers:

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
One of the European scholars furthering this advancement is a countrywoman of YOURS-- a fellow Brit!!

The Fitzwilliam Museum: An African Approach to Egypt

^ The above website and museum was started by and curated by yours truly Dr. Sally-Ann Ashton.

part 1

part 2


They are not trained in classics, and this is evident from the video. Their degree is in archaeology, with a thesis in sculpture.

Yes - I don't take a word they say serious. If you want an honest 'Black' classical scholar on the ancient Egyptians look up Frank Snowden, who pointed out the majority were not Black, but Caucasoid and hybrids, and called for 'Blacks' to embrace their sub-saharan african roots. He acknowledged North Africa is Caucasoid history.

First of all, Dr. Sally-Ann Ashton is an Egyptologist with a PhD. in Ptolemaic Egypt including an MA in Classics you f*cking idiot! LMAOH [Big Grin]

Not only can she read 'Classical' Greco-Roman literature, but unlike YOU she can read them in their original Greek and Latin forms! In fact, what led her to study Egypt's black identity in the first place were Greek and Latin descriptions of the Egyptians as very dark or BLACK people comparable with Ethiopians, you dummy!! So obviously an expert like her didn't make the dumbass mistake of mistranslating Greek descriptions of the Egyptians as being burnt black to being tanned or sunburned the way YOU did! LOL [Big Grin]

Second of all, unlike Snowden, Ashton also relies on accurate and more up to-date anthropology. This is why unlike Snowden, she does not fall for the "true negro" stereotype and dismiss every black person with narrow noses, thin lips, or loose hair, as "Caucasian-mixed"! LOL Again, why you cling to outdated Snowden as your token negro crony while trying in vain to dismiss Ashton.

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Indeed, I also recall the nasty and vicious attacks Dr. Ashton received for those lectures as well as for her whole work in revealing Egypt's black African identity. She was called a "race traitor" and a white woman who "probably has a thing for black men and probably has a children by a black man"! These are just two of the benign comments I read from the Euronuts and all because she didn't fall into their ranks. [Embarrassed]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, racism is a mental disorder. And we have Faheembonkers to prove it. [Big Grin]

Than this guy must REALLY be a race traitor...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98viuKQnIWU&list=FLOi5yL1B9aLEWSTjyIwcWLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po1RGmzfnNY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWS1oUb9PqM

Ah good old Basil Davidson. Yes he was one of the pioneering white 'Afrocentrists'. LOL

Unfortunately for Farthead, by the time Davidson passed, he had many protégé like Graham Connor and Christopher Ehret. Both of whom publish their works in peer-reviewed journals which we cite here.

Meanwhile the dumb race-heads are wallowing in their own wastes.

 -

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Son of Ra
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Indeed, I also recall the nasty and vicious attacks Dr. Ashton received for those lectures as well as for her whole work in revealing Egypt's black African identity. She was called a "race traitor" and a white woman who "probably has a thing for black men and probably has a children by a black man"! These are just two of the benign comments I read from the Euronuts and all because she didn't fall into their ranks. [Embarrassed]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, racism is a mental disorder. And we have Faheembonkers to prove it. [Big Grin]

Than this guy must REALLY be a race traitor...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98viuKQnIWU&list=FLOi5yL1B9aLEWSTjyIwcWLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po1RGmzfnNY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWS1oUb9PqM

Ah good old Basil Davidson. Yes he was one of the pioneering white 'Afrocentrists'. LOL

Unfortunately for Farthead, by the time Davidson passed, he had many protégé like Graham Connor and Christopher Ehret. Both of whom publish their works in peer-reviewed journals which we cite here.

Meanwhile the dumb race-heads are wallowing in their own wastes.

 -

I also wonder what they feel about Sarah Tiskoff? She focuses a lot on African diversity.
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Djehuti
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^ She only does so because of human origins in Africa but unfortunately when it comes to Egypt she still holds some 'traditional' bias.

Even independent scholar and 'feminist' historian Max Dashu could be called 'Afrocentric' for acknowledging the truth.:

Racism, History, & Lies

African Queens

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Son of Ra
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^^^^Bwahahahahahahah!

Also I didn't know Tiskoff was bias of the Ancient EGyptians being African.

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Djehuti
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Unfortunately for the Euronuts there are Egyptologists who hold 'Afrocentric' views as well like Kent Weeks, Barbara Lesko, and even Egyptian Egyptologists like Ahmed Saleh and Moustafa Gadalla just to name a few!

There was also the late Frank Yurco, but he may be counted as 'bias' by the Euronuts because his wife happened to be a Caribbean black woman (who when accompanying him on digs would be mistaken for a native Egyptian by actual natives)! LOL [Big Grin]

The Farthead and his ilk are kaput.

 -

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Brada-Anansi
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Feehmdom what site did you and some other centric produced ??oh yeah some knock-off of ESR do you still post on your own site btw.

Egyptsearch Reloaded Stats

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Now I must admit we don't have much conversations but we are a clearing house for data as Zarahan said one among many so even if ES shuts it's door info is stored elsewhere If ESR goes we still have TNV or Jeri's Blog or Explorer's Blog Ancient Africa's Black Kingdom blog. Rastalivewire and more for if at anytime soldiers need ammo and we have it strategically stashed.

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the lioness,
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^^^^
ESR:
This site is estimated worth $1,117,756 USD

what does this mean? Is it an estimate of potential advertising revenue? Seems like a huge figure

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Brada-Anansi
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I guess potential I donno.
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Mikemikev
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
First of all, Dr. Sally-Ann Ashton is an Egyptologist with a PhD. in Ptolemaic Egypt including an MA in Classics you f*cking idiot! LMAOH [Big Grin]

That's false. They have no degree in Classics, and lack basic knowledge in this area.

Ashton studied archaeology at King's College London and was awarded a PhD in 1999. Their doctorate was on Ptolemaic royal sculpture.

This woman is a trained field achaeologist who specialises in ancient sculpture, not in classics. Her credentials are uploaded online (yes she has a bachelors in Greek, but not classical literature).

I'm not claiming this women is dumb. However she's not qualified to talk on classics as she does in her video. Its like a zoologist trying to talk about astronomy. She claims the ancient greeks depicted the egyptians as "Black Africans", yet this is contradicted by the ancient literature and is simply wrong. The AE's were always distinguished to the "Aethiopians", who as Snowden showed were those with Negroid physiognomy (wooly hair, thick lips, wide noses).

quote:
Not only can she read 'Classical' Greco-Roman literature, but unlike YOU she can read them in their original Greek and Latin forms! In fact, what led her to study Egypt's black identity in the first place were Greek and Latin descriptions of the Egyptians as very dark or BLACK people comparable with Ethiopians, you dummy!! So obviously an expert like her didn't make the dumbass mistake of mistranslating Greek descriptions of the Egyptians as being burnt black to being tanned or sunburned the way YOU did! LOL [Big Grin]
See above. The AE's were contrasted to the Aethiopians as early as texts from the 7th century BC.

quote:
Second of all, unlike Snowden, Ashton also relies on accurate and more up to-date anthropology. This is why unlike Snowden, she does not fall for the "true negro" stereotype and dismiss every black person with narrow noses, thin lips, or loose hair, as "Caucasian-mixed"! LOL Again, why you cling to outdated Snowden as your token negro crony while trying in vain to dismiss Ashton.
Snowden didn't cling to the "true Negroid". He claimed Nilotics were a Negroid/'Black' variety, who had orthognathism and thinner noses (though not true leptorrhine) and frizzy hair (less wooly than the true negroid): "certain persons described as Ethiopian were perhaps not so flat-nosed and thick lipped as other Ethiopians" (Snowden, 1970). At least though he had the honesty to claim Negroids arn't wavy/straight haired and leptorrhine.

Do you know how retarded you and Zaharan sound when you claim "Blacks are straight haired and thin nosed"? [Roll Eyes] In the real world this has no basis in fact, because "Black" people don't have those features. Its like claiming Caucasoids have wooly hair and black skin.

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BrandonP
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quote:
Originally posted by Faheemdunkers:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
First of all, Dr. Sally-Ann Ashton is an Egyptologist with a PhD. in Ptolemaic Egypt including an MA in Classics you f*cking idiot! LMAOH [Big Grin]

That's false. They have no degree in Classics, and lack basic knowledge in this area.

Ashton studied archaeology at King's College London and was awarded a PhD in 1999. Their doctorate was on Ptolemaic royal sculpture.

This woman is a trained field achaeologist who specialises in ancient sculpture, not in classics. Her credentials are uploaded online (yes she has a bachelors in Greek, but not classical literature).

I'm not claiming this women is dumb. However she's not qualified to talk on classics as she does in her video. Its like a zoologist trying to talk about astronomy. She claims the ancient greeks depicted the egyptians as "Black Africans", yet this is contradicted by the ancient literature and is simply wrong. The AE's were always distinguished to the "Aethiopians", who as Snowden showed were those with Negroid physiognomy (wooly hair, thick lips, wide noses).

However we interpret ancient Greek literature, who do have ancient Greek depictions of Egyptians such as this:

 -
Kantharos (cup) of Herakles and African man (possibly Egyptian King Busiris); Greek, Attic; circa 470 BCE; terracotta (San Antonio Museum of Art)

Maybe Ashton has seen examples like this?

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Mikemikev
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I never studied the art, only the literature.

One of the earliest sources from Hesiod's Catalogues (7th century BC) states the following: (ll. 8-35) -

"(The Sons of Boreas pursued the Harpies) to the lands of the Massagetae and of the proud Half-Dog men, of the Underground-folk and of the feeble Pygmies; and to the tribes of the boundless Black-skins and the Libyans."

Hesiod's Libya = the whole of North Africa.

 -

- Herodotus' 5th century BC map.

The "boundless Black-skins" are instead contrasted to the Libyans (North Africans were not regarded to be "Black"/have "Black" skin). This distinction is found throughout later literature, so its not a one off. The "blacks" are only the sub-saharan africans, below libya.

Snowden (1970, 1983) shows throughout his books how the greeks contrasted the Egyptians or North Africans (Libyans) to the Aethiopians to the south of them.

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Djehuti
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The idiot claims to have knowledge in Classics yet ignores all the Greek and Roman literature describing the Egyptians as burnt black by the sun and as close relatives of Ethiopians.
quote:
Originally posted by Fartheadbonkers:

That's false. They have no degree in Classics, and lack basic knowledge in this area.

Ashton studied archaeology at King's College London and was awarded a PhD in 1999. Their doctorate was on Ptolemaic royal sculpture.

This woman is a trained field achaeologist who specialises in ancient sculpture, not in classics. Her credentials are uploaded online (yes she has a bachelors in Greek, but not classical literature).

I'm not claiming this women is dumb. However she's not qualified to talk on classics as she does in her video. Its like a zoologist trying to talk about astronomy. She claims the ancient greeks depicted the egyptians as "Black Africans", yet this is contradicted by the ancient literature and is simply wrong. The AE's were always distinguished to the "Aethiopians", who as Snowden showed were those with Negroid physiognomy (wooly hair, thick lips, wide noses).

LOL YOU are false. She has an MA in Classics and if she has no expertise in Classics why is she even listed in the Faculty of Classics?! LOL

quote:
See above. The AE's were contrasted to the Aethiopians as early as texts from the 7th century BC.
See above where? Please provide the evidence.
quote:
Snowden didn't cling to the "true Negroid". He claimed Nilotics were a Negroid/'Black' variety, who had orthognathism and thinner noses (though not true leptorrhine) and frizzy hair (less wooly than the true negroid): "certain persons described as Ethiopian were perhaps not so flat-nosed and thick lipped as other Ethiopians" (Snowden, 1970). At least though he had the honesty to claim Negroids arn't wavy/straight haired and leptorrhine.
Strawman argument. Snowden is NOT a physical anthropologist and he considered Egyptians 'Caucasian mixed' for the reasons I stated.

quote:
Do you know how retarded you and Zaharan sound when you claim "Blacks are straight haired and thin nosed"? In the real world this has no basis in fact, because "Black" people don't have those features. Its like claiming Caucasoids have wooly hair and black skin.
I didn't exactly say "straight haired" I said loose haired, and that you deny such features among blacks even though we've shown you how many times speaks to your own mental deficiency.

Blacks with...

straight noses

 -

 -

loose hair

 -

 -


Ironically when it comes to Egyptians, there were more Upper Egyptians with loose hair while more Lower Egyptians had wooly hair which is why Herodotus described the Egyptians he saw in the Delta as having wooly hair!

 -

As many do today..

Cairene Arab Egyptian
 -

By the way, here are whites with wooly hair.

 -

 -

You are dismissed!

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the lioness,
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SOMALIA
 -

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Fartheadbonkers:

I never studied the art, only the literature.

One of the earliest sources from Hesiod's Catalogues (7th century BC) states the following: (ll. 8-35) -

"(The Sons of Boreas pursued the Harpies) to the lands of the Massagetae and of the proud Half-Dog men, of the Underground-folk and of the feeble Pygmies; and to the tribes of the boundless Black-skins and the Libyans."

Hesiod's Libya = the whole of North Africa.

 -

- Herodotus' 5th century BC map.

The "boundless Black-skins" are instead contrasted to the Libyans (North Africans were not regarded to be "Black"/have "Black" skin). This distinction is found throughout later literature, so its not a one off. The "blacks" are only the sub-saharan africans, below libya.

Snowden (1970, 1983) shows throughout his books how the greeks contrasted the Egyptians or North Africans (Libyans) to the Aethiopians to the south of them.

LOL Typical Euronut obfuscation. Note they said Boundless black. Yes the Greeks did make a distinction between the Libyans who were black peoples to their south who were much blacker or very black. Thus Hesiod uses the phrase 'Boundless' black as a distinction. According to your quote not only are Libyans non-black but so too are Pygmies!

The same situation of complexion nuances was pointed out by the Roman Manilius (1st century AD) 'Astronomicon':

Aethiopes maculant orbem tenebrisque figurant
perfusas hominum gentes; minus India tostos progenerat; tellusque natans Aegyptia Nilo lenius irriguis infuscat corpora campis iam propior mediumque facit moderata tenorem. Phoebus harenosis Afrorum pulvere terris
exsiccat populos, et Mauretania nomen
oris habet titulumque suo fert ipsa colore


translation: Ethiopians stain the circle (globe) with their darkest figures. Immersed with races of men less burnt India has produced. The earth inundated by the Egyptian Nile, are more gently darkened bodies of the watered field. We now draw near the moderate tenor (climate or condition) of the middle. Bright (sunny) Aforum with sandy dust of the earth that drieth up the people, and the name of Mauretania, a label his mouth bears has the very color.

Here, Manilius lists all the dark (black) races from darkest to lightest-- Aethipians, Indians, Aegyptians, Aforum, and Mauretanians.

He then does the same with all the light (white) races:

Idcirco in varias leges variasque figuras
dispositum genus est hominum, proprioque colore
formantur gentes, sociataque iura per artus
materiamque parem privato foedere signant.
flava per ingentis surgit Germania partus,
Gallia vicino minus est infecta rubore,
asperior solidos Hispania contrahit artus.
Martia Romanis urbis pater induit ora
Gradivumque Venus miscens bene temperat artus,
perque coloratas subtilis Graecia gentes
gymnasium praefert vultu fortisque palaestras,
et Syriam produnt torti per tempora crines.


He names all the white races from fairest to darkest-- Germans, Gallians (Celts), Romans, Greeks, and Syrians.

Still the division is between the light (white) races of the northern lands and the dark (black) races of the southern lands.

Are you aware of the myth of Phaeton? According to Greek myth Phaeton nearly the son of Helios (the sun god) nearly crashed the chariot of the sun on earth and in doing so scorched all the southern lands (Africa, Arabia, and India) creating the Arabian and Libyan (Saharan) deserts as well as making the inhabitants black.

Here some other Classical sources:

Aristotle: "Those who are too black are cowards, like for instance, the Egyptians and Ethiopians. But those who are excessively white are also cowards as we can see from the example of women, the complexion of courage is between the two."

Lucian citing two Greek writers...
Lycinus (describing a young Egyptian): 'This boy is not merely black; he has thick lips and his legs are too thin. . . his hair worn in a plait behind shows that he is not a freeman.'
Timolaus: 'But that is a sign of really distinguished birth in Egypt, Lycinus. All freeborn children plait their hair until they reach manhood. It is the exact opposite of the custom of our ancestors who thought it seemly for old men to secure their hair with a gold brooch to keep it in place.'

Apollodorus: "Aegyptos conquered the country of the blackfooted ones and called it Egypt after himself"

Ammianus Marcellinus: "the men of Egypt are mostly brown and black with a skinny and desiccated look."

Diodorus Siculus: "The Ethiopians say that the Egyptians `are one of their colonies,35 which was led into Egypt by Osiris. They claim that at the beginning of the world Egypt was simply a sea but that the Nile, carrying down vast quantities of loam from Ethiopia in its flood waters, finally filled it in and made it part of the continent."

Aeschylus in his 'Suppliant Maidens':
Yet if this may not be,
We [Dainades], the dark race sun-smitten, we
Will speed with suppliant wands
To Zeus who rules below, with hospitable hands
Who welcomes all the dead from all the lands:
Yea, by our own hands strangled, we will go,
Spurned by Olympian gods, unto the gods below!
. . .
O stranger maids, I may not trust this word,
That ye have share in this our Argive race.
No likeness of our country do ye bear,
But semblance as of Libyan womankind.
Even such a stock by Nilus' banks might grow;
Yea, and the Cyprian stamp, in female forms,
Shows, to the life, what males impressed the same.
And, furthermore, of roving Indian maids
Whose camping-grounds by Aethiopia lie,
And camels burdened even as mules, and bearing
Riders, as horses bear, mine ears have heard;
And tales of flesh-devouring mateless maids
Called (Gorgon) Amazons: to these, if bows ye bare,
I most had deemed you like. Speak further yet,
That of your Argive birth the truth I learn.

...
The Danaids upon seeing their Aegyptiad cousins approaching in their ships: 'I can see the crew with their black limbs and white tunics' and 'In ships, stout-timbered and dark-prowed, they have sailed here, attended by a mighty black host, and in their wrath overtaken us'

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by the lyinass,:

SOMALIA
 -

Uh, the source of the above?? And what the hell does that have anything to do with the discussion??
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:


Here, Manilius lists all the dark (black) races from darkest to lightest-- Aethipians, Indians, Aegyptians, Aforum, and Mauretanians.

He then does the same with all the light (white) races:

note the hypocrisy here.

Djehutie claims not to believe in race

above he refers to a Manilius poem shich mentions a continum of people, nationalities, with skin from dark to light

then Djehutie divides this into two categories which he calls:
"dark (black) races" and " light (white) races"

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Mikemikev
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Djehuti, the Ethiopian-Egyptian pigmentation contrasts are compiled in Snowden's two books (1970, 1983). There are stacks and stacks of them, he even listed the same contrasts found in early Biblical literature.

In the Acts of Peter for example:

"I saw you sitting on a high place, and before you a great assembly; and a most evil-looking woman, who looked like an Ethiopian, not an Egyptian, but was all black, clothed in filthy rags".

Classical quotes -

"The appearance of the inhabitants is also not very different in India and Ethiopia: the southern Indians are rather more like Ethiopians as they are black to look on, and their hair is black; only they are not so snub-nosed or woolly-haired as the Ethiopians; the northern Indians are most like the Egyptians physically."
- Arrian, Indica vi.9

Strabo confirms in his Geography xv.1.13, in almost identical wording:

"As for the people of India, those in the south are like the Aethiopians in color, although they are like the rest in respect to countenance and hair (for on account of the humidity of the
air their hair does not curl), whereas those in the north are like the Egyptians."

Your Afrocentrism is simply ignoring the fact all ancient writers distinguished the Egyptians to the Ethiopians based on their complexion, but also hair texture. I'm also not sure how you think Manilius helps you, when he is clearly distinguishing the lighter Egyptians to the Aetheiops - and supports Strabo/Arrian.

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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
SOMALIA
 -

Errr, you do realize that the vast majority of this foreign ancestry is only 3ky old, and that populations with features like the Somali predate 1000bc, right?
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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by Faheemdunkers:
Djehuti, the Ethiopian-Egyptian pigmentation contrasts are compiled in Snowden's two books (1970, 1983). There are stacks and stacks of them, he even listed the same contrasts found in early Biblical literature.

In the Acts of Peter for example:

"I saw you sitting on a high place, and before you a great assembly; and a most evil-looking woman, who looked like an Ethiopian, not an Egyptian, but was all black, clothed in filthy rags".

Classical quotes -

"The appearance of the inhabitants is also not very different in India and Ethiopia: the southern Indians are rather more like Ethiopians as they are black to look on, and their hair is black; only they are not so snub-nosed or woolly-haired as the Ethiopians; the northern Indians are most like the Egyptians physically."
- Arrian, Indica vi.9

Strabo confirms in his Geography xv.1.13, in almost identical wording:

"As for the people of India, those in the south are like the Aethiopians in color, although they are like the rest in respect to countenance and hair (for on account of the humidity of the
air their hair does not curl), whereas those in the north are like the Egyptians."

Your Afrocentrism is simply ignoring the fact all ancient writers distinguished the Egyptians to the Ethiopians based on their complexion, but also hair texture. I'm also not sure how you think Manilius helps you, when he is clearly distinguishing the lighter Egyptians to the Aetheiops - and supports Strabo/Arrian.

People can always count on you to fail
epically. These are just early attestations of
the true negro fallacy. They're contrasting
Egyptians with pitch-black Meroitic Kushites. By
that time (~ common era), the term 'Aethiopia'
was almost exclusively applied to Kushites (who
were very dark skinned), and only rarely to the
people of Northern Sudan, who are described as
only a shade darker than contemporary Egyptians.
And those Northern Indians wouldn't have looked
like Pashtuns either (otherwise those swarthy
Greeks and Romans would have just said Egyptians
look like us, which they never did). Again, you
fail. Dumbass.

[Roll Eyes]

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by the lyinass idiot,:

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:


Here, Manilius lists all the dark (black) races from darkest to lightest-- Aethipians, Indians, Aegyptians, Aforum, and Mauretanians.

He then does the same with all the light (white) races:

note the hypocrisy here.

Djehutie claims not to believe in race

above he refers to a Manilius poem shich mentions a continum of people, nationalities, with skin from dark to light

then Djehutie divides this into two categories which he calls:
"dark (black) races" and " light (white) races"

Dumbass, I am use the word 'race' the same way Manilius does, that is its original definition which simply meant a group of people and NOT some biological construct!! Thus 'race' IS the same thing as ethnicity or nationality. And it was Manilius NOT I who divided the world into dark and light 'races' (plural) in that the northern areas of the world had light races while the southern areas had dark races. What's more Manilius made it clear there was a continuum or gradation where the division between light and dark blurred near the 'middle' i.e. Mediterranean area. Where did Manilius or I for that matter state anything remotely to the modern concept of biological race??!

Answer: nowhere.

So get your lyinass outta here and back to Mathilda's brothel, b|tch! [Big Grin]

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:
Originally posted by Faheemdunkers:
Djehuti, the Ethiopian-Egyptian pigmentation contrasts are compiled in Snowden's two books (1970, 1983). There are stacks and stacks of them, he even listed the same contrasts found in early Biblical literature.

In the Acts of Peter for example:

"I saw you sitting on a high place, and before you a great assembly; and a most evil-looking woman, who looked like an Ethiopian, not an Egyptian, but was all black, clothed in filthy rags".

Classical quotes -

"The appearance of the inhabitants is also not very different in India and Ethiopia: the southern Indians are rather more like Ethiopians as they are black to look on, and their hair is black; only they are not so snub-nosed or woolly-haired as the Ethiopians; the northern Indians are most like the Egyptians physically."
- Arrian, Indica vi.9

Strabo confirms in his Geography xv.1.13, in almost identical wording:

"As for the people of India, those in the south are like the Aethiopians in color, although they are like the rest in respect to countenance and hair (for on account of the humidity of the
air their hair does not curl), whereas those in the north are like the Egyptians."

Your Afrocentrism is simply ignoring the fact all ancient writers distinguished the Egyptians to the Ethiopians based on their complexion, but also hair texture. I'm also not sure how you think Manilius helps you, when he is clearly distinguishing the lighter Egyptians to the Aetheiops - and supports Strabo/Arrian.

People can always count on you to fail
epically. These are just early attestations of
the true negro fallacy. They're contrasting
Egyptians with pitch-black Meroitic Kushites. By
that time (~ common era), the term 'Aethiopia'
was almost exclusively applied to Kushites (who
were very dark skinned), and only rarely to the
people of Northern Sudan, who are described as
only a shade darker than contemporary Egyptians.
And those Northern Indians wouldn't have looked
like Pashtuns either (otherwise those swarthy
Greeks and Romans would have just said Egyptians
look like us, which they never did). Again, you
fail. Dumbass.

[Roll Eyes]

Correct. The lying Anglo-idiot is throwing up the strawman that there was a difference in color or features between Ethiopians and Egyptians. The same can be said between Greeks and Celts to the north of them. In fact there are countless texts that talk about the difference in looks between Greeks and Celts yet the dumb-Anglo does not use these as 'proof' of a racial difference! LOL [Big Grin]

And you're correct that northern Indians during 'Classical' times were much darker than today's stereotypical Punjabi. Funny how when I brought up Manilius' quote about Indians being second darkest to Ethiopians, he all of a sudden brings up the Arrian quote distinguishing southern Indians from northern Indians. Yet Manilius does no such thing. He simply says Indians and one with sense would know those Indians he is most familiar with are northern Indians of the Indus Valley since that is the group Greco-Roman authors were most familiar with.

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Swenet
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^When Anglo did that, he was doing what he's known for: circular reasoning. What he needs to do is prove that the Northern Indians he cites would have been light skinned.

He cites the Arrian quote, even though the Manillius quote specifies what Arrian would have meant with 'Indian'. How can you use the Arrian quote to counter Manillus, when Manillus is specifying for everyone what Arrian's Indians looked like?

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Mikemikev
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by the lyinass idiot,:

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:


Here, Manilius lists all the dark (black) races from darkest to lightest-- Aethipians, Indians, Aegyptians, Aforum, and Mauretanians.

He then does the same with all the light (white) races:

note the hypocrisy here.

Djehutie claims not to believe in race

above he refers to a Manilius poem shich mentions a continum of people, nationalities, with skin from dark to light

then Djehutie divides this into two categories which he calls:
"dark (black) races" and " light (white) races"

Dumbass, I am use the word 'race' the same way Manilius does, that is its original definition which simply meant a group of people and NOT some biological construct!! Thus 'race' IS the same thing as ethnicity or nationality. And it was Manilius NOT I who divided the world into dark and light 'races' (plural) in that the northern areas of the world had light races while the southern areas had dark races. What's more Manilius made it clear there was a continuum or gradation where the division between light and dark blurred near the 'middle' i.e. Mediterranean area. Where did Manilius or I for that matter state anything remotely to the modern concept of biological race??!

Answer: nowhere.

So get your lyinass outta here and back to Mathilda's brothel, b|tch! [Big Grin]

I actually refuted that in a paper I submitted last week. Lucian's Hermotimus classifies man into three races: "White", "Black" and "Yellow". So the tripartite Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid division of 18th century taxonomy, was already in existence 1600 or more years earlier. Race wasn't an invention of European colonists, sorry. [Wink]
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Son of Ra
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^^^Yet its outdated...

Seriously IIRC the Negritos of Southest Asian were grouped a apart of the 'Negroid' race...Yet we all know they are genetically distant from Africans.

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Fartheadbonkers:

I actually refuted that in a paper I submitted last week. Lucian's Hermotimus classifies man into three races: "White", "Black" and "Yellow". So the tripartite Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid division of 18th century taxonomy, was already in existence 1600 or more years earlier. Race wasn't an invention of European colonists, sorry. [Wink]

ROTFLMAO
 -

This idiot actually tries to project his modern notions of biological race on to the ancient authors!!

Of course the Greeks and Romans had notions of biological race in the sense that they understood certain populations had certain characteristics that are in some way adapted to their environment. This is even reflected in their ancient myths.

For example, have you heard of the myth of Phaeton?? According to legend, Phaeton who was the half-mortal son of Helios (the sun god) tried to drive his father's chariot (the sun) across the sky but failed to control the steeds. Thus he almost crashed the sun on earth scorching up all the southern lands i.e. Libya (Africa), Arabia, and India. Libya was once a fertile but was turned into desert; the same with Arabia. And according to the Greeks that is why all the peoples of 'the south' including the Egyptians are black because their skins were baked by the sun.

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Son of Ra
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Ahem...I know this is a very noob question. But how do you quote text? I haven't learned to do it as of yet on this site.
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Swenet
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PUT SOMETHING IN QUOTES:
(QUOTE) insert your text (/QUOTE)

PUT SOMETHING IN BOLD:
(b) insert your text (/b)

PUT SOMETHING IN ITALICS:
(i) insert your text (/i)

I had to illustrate these examples in round brackets for it to be displayed correctly by this forum. Substitute all round brackets: )( with square brackets: ][ and it will work

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:

When Anglo did that, he was doing what he's known for: circular reasoning. What he needs to do is prove that the Northern Indians he cites would have been light skinned.

He cites the Arrian quote, even though the Manillius quote specifies what Arrian would have meant with 'Indian'. How can you use the Arrian quote to counter Manillus, when Manillus is specifying for everyone what Arrian's Indians looked like?

Yes, Manilius simply refers to 'Indians' in general, but Arrian who lived a century after Manilius was more familiar about the peoples of the subcontinent to point out a difference between Indians of the south and Indians of the north. BOTH, by the way were still black. Yet interesting how Arrian notes that the blackness of the south Indians was comparable to Ethiopians (Sudanese) whereas the more mild (often translated 'medium') blackness of northern Indians was comparable to Egyptians. He's basically noting differences in complexion as well as other features. Even a modern 'Sub-Saharan' nation could have populations with different complexions and features. Yet according to the Anglo-loon Arrian means such differences to be 'racial'! LOL [Big Grin]

Also, in regards to India modern genetics also shows continuity between the populations of India except that northerners do have more recent admixture from Central Asia due to historical invasions and migrations and NOT 'Aryan invasions' of Vedic times. As proof here are a couple more texts on Indians from before the 1st century.

From Herdotus' Histories: The Persian Wars

All the tribes (Indians) which I have mentioned live together like the brute beasts: they have also all the same tint of skin, which approaches that of the Ethiopians. Their country is a long way from Persia towards the south, nor had king Darius ever any authority over them.


The Eastern Ethiopians---for two nations of this name served in the army--were marshaled with the Indians. They differed in nothing from the other Ethiopians, save in their language, and the character of their hair. For the Eastern Ethiopians have straight hair, while they of Libya are more woolly-haired than any other people in the world.


Note that Herodotus describes the Indians i.e. of northern India as having skin color that approaches Ethiopians. But then he describes southern Indians as 'Eastern Ethiopians' who have the same color and features as 'Western Ethiopians' of Libya (Africa) except they have straight hair and speak different language. One then can safely come to the conclusion that the Egyptians' skin color also approached that of the Ethiopians to their south instead of being the same.

Then later on we have this...

Whereupon Mardonius took the word, and said: "Of a truth, my lord, thou dost surpass, not only all living Persians, but likewise those yet unborn. Most true and right is each word that thou hast now uttered; but best of all thy resolve not to let the Ionians who live in Europe - a worthless crew - mock us any more. It were indeed a monstrous thing if, after conquering and enslaving the Sacae, the Indians, the Ethiopians, the Assyrians, and many other mighty nations.


^ Note that he says they (Persians) conquered the Ethiopians. We know that the Persian empire did NOT include Nubia or the Sudan, but it did include Egypt!

Getting back to Africa, as I said even a country in Sub-Sahara can have populations who differ in complexion as well as features. Since the Anglo-idiot likes to bring up Snowden, I have a passage from Snowden below:

 -

^ Now, one must make a distinguish between what the actual Roman authors stated themselves and what poor flawed Snowden interprets through his modern racial lenses. When one does so, it becomes quite clear that despite whatever nuances existed between the various populations of Northwest Africa-- they were ALL black.

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Son of Ra
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
PUT SOMETHING IN QUOTES:
(QUOTE) insert your text (/QUOTE)

PUT SOMETHING IN BOLD:
(b) insert your text (/b)

PUT SOMETHING IN ITALICS:
(i) insert your text (/i)

I had to illustrate these examples in round brackets for it to be displayed correctly by this forum. Substitute all round brackets: )( with square brackets: ][ and it will work

Thanks bro.
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Swenet
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^You're welcome

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
All the tribes (Indians) which I have mentioned live together like the brute beasts: they have also all the same tint of skin, which approaches that of the Ethiopians. Their country is a long way from Persia towards the south, nor had king Darius ever any authority over them.

He says that he mentioned Indian tribes earlier in his writings. You said these mentioned tribes are northern, but how do you know? Can you elucidate?
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Djehuti
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^ Yes, all the tribes are northern Indian or specifically from the Indus Valley region. When Herodotus says they live to the south of Persia, he meant southeast. In fact the very name 'Indian' is derived from their residence in the Indus Valley. There are other texts which describe these same Indian mercenaries and their families performing Vedic rites and customs. Also, note again that Herodotus too distinguishes the Indians of the Indus proper from peoples to their south whom he calls 'Eastern Ethiopians' which in comparison with the 'Western Ethiopians' who live to the south of the Egyptians.

Mind you there are passages from Herodotus that describe the Indians (like Egyptians) blatantly as 'black-skinned' too.

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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Yes, all the tribes are northern Indian or specifically from the Indus Valley region. When Herodotus says they live to the south of Persia, he meant southeast. In fact the very name 'Indian' is derived from their residence in the Indus Valley. There are other texts which describe these same Indian mercenaries and their families performing Vedic rites and customs. Also, note again that Herodotus too distinguishes the Indians of the Indus proper from peoples to their south whom he calls 'Eastern Ethiopians' which in comparison with the 'Western Ethiopians' who live to the south of the Egyptians.

Mind you there are passages from Herodotus that describe the Indians (like Egyptians) blatantly as 'black-skinned' too.

(deleted) Forget it, I misunderstood you
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BrandonP
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Speaking of Herodotus, I recall he mentioned "Ethiopians" serving in Xerxes' army. Does he mention Egyptians as a distinct component in that army too. I don't recall so, and if not, maybe he regarded Egyptians as a subgroup of Ethiopian?

I tend to regard the Greek "Ethiopian" as referring specifically to the very darkest Africans, but if anyone has examples of Egyptians being covered by the term "Ethiopian", I'd love to hear it.

--------------------
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My art thread on ES

And my books thread

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Swenet
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^They were probably mostly ancient Khuzestanis, i.e., Susians.
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Djehuti
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^ You are correct, since Herodotus and other Greeks speak of black aboriginal populaces in Persia.

You know what I find fascinating about the whole 'Western Ethiopian', 'Eastern Ethiopian' visa Indians and Egyptians is that Egypt and the Indus Valley both lie at the same latitudinal zone the same way 'Western Ethiopia' (Sudan) and 'Eastern Ethiopia' (South India) lie at the same latitudinal zone.

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Djehuti
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Of course we all know the game Anglo-idiot plays which is the same with all Euronuts-- they find any difference from the 'true negro' among Africans whether it be lighter complexion or narrower features as proof that they were a different race from 'true negroes' or blacks. Using this same logic many black populations in Sub-Saharan countries too would not be black either! LOL

He loves to emphasize Greco-Roman texts that point out such nuances, but Dr. Sally Ann-Ashton rightly points out that the number of Greco-Roman texts noting similarities the Egyptians had with Ethiopians and other Africans far greatly exceed those that point out differences.

This is why in some texts, 'Aegyptian' and 'Aethiopian' are used interchangeably as with 'Libyan'.

This is also the reason for all the following texts that Farthead avoids like the plague.

..Still the Egyptians said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair, which certainly amounts to but little, since several other nations are so too. But further and more especially, on the circumstance that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians, are the only nations who have practised circumcision from the earliest times. The Phoenicians and the Syrians of Palestine themselves confess that they learned the custom of the Egyptians. And the Syrians who dwell about the rivers Thermodon and Parthenius, as well as their neighbors the Macronians, say that they have recently adopted it from the Colchians. Now these are the only nations who use circumcision, and it is plain that they all imitate herein the Egyptians. With respect to the Ethiopians, indeed, I cannot decide whether they learned the practice of the Egyptians, or the Egyptians of them (it is undoubtedly of very ancient date in Ethiopia). But that the others derived their knowledge of it from Egypt is clear to me, from the fact that the Phoenicians, when they come to have commerce with the Greeks, cease to follow the Egyptians in this custom, and allow their children to remain uncircumcised. (Herodotus, The Histories, Book 2:104)

^ Herodotus clearly describes the Egyptians as having wooly hair.

So far, all I have said is the record of my own autopsy and judgment and inquiry. Henceforth I will record Egyptian chronicles, according to what I have heard, adding something of what I myself have seen" . . . . "The priests told me that Min was the first king of Egypt, and that first he separated Memphis from the Nile by a dam" . . . "After him came three hundred and thirty kings, whose names the priests recited from a papyrus roll. In all these many generations there were eighteen Ethiopian kings, and one queen, native to the country; the rest were all Egyptian men" . . . "The name of the queen was the same as that of the Babylonian princess, Nitocris. She, to avenge her brother (he was king of Egypt and was slain by his subjects, who then gave Nitocris the sovereignty) put many of the Egyptians to death by treachery".
(Herodotus: The Histories, c 430 BCE, Book II, chap. 100)

Aristotle: "Those who are too black are cowards, like for instance, the Egyptians and Ethiopians. But those who are excessively white are also cowards as we can see from the example of women, the complexion of courage is between the two."

Lucian citing two Greek writers...
Lycinus (describing a young Egyptian): 'This boy is not merely black; he has thick lips and his legs are too thin. . . his hair worn in a plait behind shows that he is not a freeman.'
Timolaus: 'But that is a sign of really distinguished birth in Egypt, Lycinus. All freeborn children plait their hair until they reach manhood. It is the exact opposite of the custom of our ancestors who thought it seemly for old men to secure their hair with a gold brooch to keep it in place.'

Apollodorus: "Aegyptos conquered the country of the blackfooted ones and called it Egypt after himself"

Ammianus Marcellinus: "the men of Egypt are mostly brown and black with a skinny and desiccated look."

Diodorus Siculus: "The Ethiopians say that the Egyptians `are one of their colonies,35 which was led into Egypt by Osiris. They claim that at the beginning of the world Egypt was simply a sea but that the Nile, carrying down vast quantities of loam from Ethiopia in its flood waters, finally filled it in and made it part of the continent."

Aeschylus in his 'Suppliant Maidens':
Yet if this may not be,
We [Dainades], the dark race sun-smitten, we
Will speed with suppliant wands
To Zeus who rules below, with hospitable hands
Who welcomes all the dead from all the lands:
Yea, by our own hands strangled, we will go,
Spurned by Olympian gods, unto the gods below!
. . .
O stranger maids, I may not trust this word,
That ye have share in this our Argive race.
No likeness of our country do ye bear,
But semblance as of Libyan womankind.
Even such a stock by Nilus' banks might grow;
Yea, and the Cyprian stamp, in female forms,
Shows, to the life, what males impressed the same.
And, furthermore, of roving Indian maids
Whose camping-grounds by Aethiopia lie,
And camels burdened even as mules, and bearing
Riders, as horses bear, mine ears have heard;
And tales of flesh-devouring mateless maids
Called (Gorgon) Amazons: to these, if bows ye bare,
I most had deemed you like. Speak further yet,
That of your Argive birth the truth I learn.

...
The Danaids upon seeing their Aegyptiad cousins approaching in their ships: 'I can see the crew with their black limbs and white tunics' and 'In ships, stout-timbered and dark-prowed, they have sailed here, attended by a mighty black host, and in their wrath overtaken us'

Explain why Greek art often depicts Egyptians with "negroid" features:

 -


 -

 -
 -

And even later Judeo-Christian authors say the same:

Rabbi Yuda ben Simon in a Midrashic text: Abraham says to his wife Sarah, "Now we are about to enter a place (Egypt) of ugly and black people"

In a Midrash: "The black people will come out of Egypt, Kush will stretch its hands to God"

Church Father Theodore of Mopsuestia says above the Shulamite bride in the 'Song of Songs': "She was black like all the Egyptians and Ethiopians."

Church Father Origen Adamantius says of the Egyptians: "They are the discolored (black) posterity of Ham"

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BrandonP
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
So far, all I have said is the record of my own autopsy and judgment and inquiry. Henceforth I will record Egyptian chronicles, according to what I have heard, adding something of what I myself have seen" . . . . "The priests told me that Min was the first king of Egypt, and that first he separated Memphis from the Nile by a dam" . . . "After him came three hundred and thirty kings, whose names the priests recited from a papyrus roll. In all these many generations there were eighteen Ethiopian kings, and one queen, native to the country; the rest were all Egyptian men" . . . "The name of the queen was the same as that of the Babylonian princess, Nitocris. She, to avenge her brother (he was king of Egypt and was slain by his subjects, who then gave Nitocris the sovereignty) put many of the Egyptians to death by treachery".
(Herodotus: The Histories, c 430 BCE, Book II, chap. 100)

Most people would probably interpret the "nineteen Ethiopian rulers" as alluding to the Napatan occupation, but then only six Napatan kings (Kashta, Piye, Shabaka, Shebitku, Taharqa, and Tantamani) controlled Egypt. If we take Herodotus at face value, several more Egyptian rulers had "Ethiopian" (Nubian?) ancestry than conventionally realized.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by the lyinass idiot,:
[qb]
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:


Here, Manilius lists all the dark (black) races from darkest to lightest-- Aethipians, Indians, Aegyptians, Aforum, and Mauretanians.

He then does the same with all the light (white) races:

note the hypocrisy here.

Djehutie claims not to believe in race

above he refers to a Manilius poem shich mentions a continum of people, nationalities, with skin from dark to light

then Djehutie divides this into two categories which he calls:
"dark (black) races" and " light (white) races"

Dumbass, I am use the word 'race' the same way Manilius does,
> But he doesn't use the word race and doesn't use a word that means it


All he does is go through a list of nationalites and their relative skin darkness and lightness (assuming this is a valid way to catagorize people)

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti: And it was Manilius NOT I who divided the world into dark and light 'races' (plural) in that the northern areas of the world had light races while the southern areas had dark races.

That is a lie. He did not add any word after such ethniticities such as Indians, Aegyptians.
He did not say "people of the Indian" race or any word added after their nationality.

But further, you have taken it upon yourself to take his list and separate it in two separate groupings dark and light

What you are doing is devising of your own accord i sorting people into 'black" and white" categories and putting the ethnicities mentioned within a poem into one of these two categories which Manilus DOES NOT DO


here is the latin:

M. MANILII ASTRONOMICON LIBER QUARTUS (IV)

711-730

http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/manilius4.html

Rough to English wiki Translation:

.Therefore, in various laws and various shapes
class is composed of a regular arrangement of men, gives them their own color
formed Nations sociataque rights through the frame
materials to match the private treaty signed.
blonde with huge rises in Germany births, 715
France neighborhood is infected less redness,
rougher sous Spain frame contracts.
Martian Rome father put faces
Gradivus Venus mixing well warms limbs
colored by the Greek people, 720 fine
school prefers face strong wrestling,
Syria and tortured during record locks.
Ethiopians stain the world and darkness figure
reeking of nations less India Tosti
engendered, 725a
earth floats Egyptian Nile 726b
darkens bodies gently watered plains
now closer 726a
center, it does moderate tenor. 725b
Phoebus sandy dust African countries 728
dries up the people, and the name of Mauritania
mouth has its label bears the color.

_____________________________________________

^^^ this is a literal translation
It's automated and not comparable to a professional translator.
However what we can clearly see is written in poetic form, each nation described in a unique way

>>> rather than a two category clinical list with a systematic use of the word "dark" light" or "black' and "white" or "races"

Find any translation of this. I do not think you will find this sort of modern minded division into 'black races' and 'white races' that Djehutie is trying to promote

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Swenet
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You're not making any sense. If its just a random ording, why:

1) does the ordering conform to what we would expect in both cases (light skinned and dark skinned populations)

2) does he repeatedly use descriptive adverbs like ''less'' and ''more'', consistent with the order of light to swarthy for Western Eurasians and highly melanated to light skinned for Africans and Asiatic dark skinned people (e.g., less red, darkens bodies darker, moderate tenore, less india tosti)? The question then becomes, ''less'' relative to what? The previous example ofcourse. India is ''less tosti'' compared to what, if not the Aethiopians in the previous sentence?

quote:
I do not think you will find
No one cares about what you think. Just present evidence or stay away.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
Just present evidence or stay away.

I did idiot I put the actual poem up with a traslation

Djehutie did not put up the full evidence , dumbo

He claims it is a list of
"division between the light (white) races of the northern lands and the dark (black)"

^^^ this is a modern racialized interpretation of this poem and I busted Djehutie on this
and he tries to BS that "race" here = nationality at the same time inserting 'black' and 'white'.
But 'race" here does not = nationality because the word or equivalent of it is not here at all in the text, much less "black race" and "white race" versions of it

hypocrisy

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