posted
Did not want to post this in the Ancient Egypt section. So I apologize for posting it on here.
So I finally decided to try and write a novel based on Africa and African history. This is actually my first novel that is based on the continent. Since African history is one of my favorite(others being South Asian and East Asian) I finally wanted to give it a shot and capture the African world in as much detail as I can. This is a historic novel, but not 100% historically accurate, because there are some twist and few features that I added that did not happen in history. Storyline takes during the Songhai empire. Reason why I am asking you guys for help because some of you(not all) are African or well versed in African history and writing a novel about Africa is very new to me. Anyways the name of the novel right now is Rise Of Songhai. And the title may change if someone offers me a better or if I think of a better one down the road.
Anyways here is what the novel is about. Enjoy!
Rise of Songhai takes you on a journey throughout the whole Western Sudanic. The way of life during that time, the culture, the people and events. Where greats kingdoms and empires came and went. Where great people came and went. Rise of Songhai takes place during the 15th-16th century, during the time of the mighty Songhai, when Songhai was really starting to become the unstoppable force it really was. Our protagonist is Ezequiel Alcaide, now known as Eshan Toure, born to Portuguese scholars/explorers parents trying to reach the fable city known as Timbuktu. Both parents brutally killed by Tuareg slavers. Eshan was the only who survived the attack, at the age of only six years old. Enslaved and sold at such a young age, but adopted by kind but yet powerful elite family who has accepted Eshan as one of them. Throughout this story Eshan must adapt to a new world and people that is not his for the glory of the Songhai empire which he must see rise. The African people are his new brothers and sisters. Islam is his new belief. Songhai is his pride...You all heard the positive and noble tales of the Western Sudanic civilization whether it be books or the documentaries you see on TV, well Rise of Songhai gives us a different turn, in Rise of Songhai it shows us the dark, brutal, gritty and bloody part of the Western Sudanic kingdoms/Empires. One that we will explore.
Protagonist: Ezequiel Alcaide/Eshan Toure-Cocky, arrogant, but yet Brave. Those traits describe Eshan best. Parents killed at a young age right before his eyes by Tuareg slavers. Then sold into slavery and adopted by loving yet honorable parents. Eshan must adapt to a new world and people. As a trained warrior by his adopted father. Eshan fights for Songhai and the people he loves and cares about. Killing anyone who threatens him or his people. But vengeance is his weakness...
Characters so far...
Main characters: Aashif Toure II-Rival, friend and older adopted brother of Eshan. Aashif at first didn't accept Eshan during their encounter in their childhood. But grown to care for his younger brother the more they started to understand one another. Aashif considers Eshan his rival, the two always trying to out compete each other. But always fight as one and brothers when Songhai is in need.
Aissatou-The most beautiful women Eshan has laid eyes on and love interest of Eshan. Aissatou is a Fulani teacher in Timbuktu. Intelligent, kind and ambitious. At first she disliked Eshan arrogance and wanted nothing to do with him. But throughout time warmed up to him and appreciated his braveless.
Aashif Toure I-One of the elite and upper class people of the Songhai Empire. Of Songhay and Mandinka descent. Once a warrior, but now wealthy. Aashif Toure I is honorable, brave, strong and kind. He is the man that made Eshan into the fierce warrior that he is. Father of both Eshan and his adopted brother. Aashif Toure I rescued Eshan from slavery because he said he seem something in Eshan. Aashif Toure I was one of the greatest soldiers of the Songhai Empire. He once served under the great Sonni Ali Ber and his conquest. He was a part of the invasions of Senegal and Timbuktu and the end of the Mali Empire. All under Sonni Ali Ber.
Azrur Shaheen=Not your typical nomadic Tuareg. Handsome, playboy, ladies man, yet a devout Muslim. Childhood friend of both Eshan and Aashif Toure II, at a young age they were a trio and still are. Now a merchant and trader looking for some money and adventure. But always gets Eshan into his problems that Esham must solve. Which comes to Eshan annoyance.
Secondary characters: Askia Muhammad-Once a general of Songhai. With the help of the Toure brothers, he challenges Sunni Baru rule and defeats him. After he takes throne, makes Songhai the largest empire in African history. His policies resulted in a rapid expansion of trade with Europe and Asia, the creation of many schools, and made Islam an integral part of the empire. Songhai then experiences a cultural revival it has never seen before. Eshan looks to him as a role model.
Ahmed Bashara-An old Scholar and owner of a large library in Timbuktu. A respected person by his peers. Taught in Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt and even the Middle East. Has written dozens of manuscripts in both Songhay and Arabic languages. A role model to Eshan.
Musad-Teacher of Eshan when he was young. Very strict and at first thought Eshan was a waste of time and did not believe he belonged, but his views on Eshan changed later on.
Issa-A Dogon chief. Feels his peoples way of life are in danger by the Songhai empire.
Ishaq Muhammad-Arab merchant. Always trying to sell something. Funny, but always annoying.
Leopoldo Leggièri-An Italian merchant and friend of Eshan. Also a perverted artist which comes to Eshan and others annoyance. Loves painting naked women.
Michael Eliad-An old Jewish Hebrew merchant who misses his family. Him and Eshan become close.
Buba Abdul-Fierce Mandinka warrior of the Songhai.
Anelie-One of the Enslaved European women who Eshan tries to help. Of slavic descent. Enslaved as a sex slave.
Fahyim Quadri-A Berber from Tunisia. Is best friends with Bashara and always loyal to him. Always hangs out with him.
Abdul Karim Hussein-An Egyptian scholar and professor from Cairo. Kind and generous.
Ladi-A strong Hausa warrior that will defend Kano with her life.
Minor characters: Idder-Tuareg salt trader.
Joannes Leo Africanus-An Amazigh who visits Timbuktu
Nabil-An government official.
Samake-Famed musician of Songhai.
Bakari Ali-Songhai's famed griot of Songhay and Wolof descent. Always hangs around his group and tells the most amazing stories to Esham and others.
Antagonist/Enemies: Sunni Baru-Refused to declare himself a Muslim. Was not a great ruler like his father Sonni Ali Ber. His rule was short lived.
Fareeq Adul-Often jealous and hateful of Eshan. Always plans to plot against him. Becomes a general in the Songhai Empire.
Usem-The ruthless Tuareg slave trader who killed Eshams parents. Not only is he cruel but will do anything to kill Esham, even if any of his clan members gets in the way. Esham vows vengeance against him. He haunts Esham and his image will never leave Eshams mind.
Sadaqat Hashemi-A ruthless and bloodthirsty Arab slave trader all the way from Zanzibar. Allies with Usem to kill Esham. Hates Esham just as much as Usem. Has one eye, easily angered and tortures his slaves just for the amusement. Has many concubines who he treats awfully.
Babangida Abad-A ruthless yet honorable Hausa General of the Kano Kingdom. Will do anything at all cost to defend Kano and the Hausa states from the Songhai Empire under Askia.
Again this a dark and brutal story. Its basically rated R. I'll give you a hint...Think of the TV show Spartacus but 10x worse. That'll give you an idea.
Note this is just a rough draft. The title, names, characters,locations most likely will be changed/replaced.
Again I need help....Books that on the Songhai empire, the way of life people, how they dressed, culture, political system, military,etc would be much helpful and some ideas also.
This does not need to be 100% historically accurate but at least 75%...
And just for fun...I drew a picture of the protagonist. http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q701/Matthews1986/temporary_zpsee0a2ba0.jpg ^^^I kinda missed up on the color because I was in a complete rush. Also my phone camera completely sucks at taking pictures. You can't see his face because its hidden in the shadows. Outfit/Attire colors are red, black and white/grey. He wears a black hood and cape. In his hands he is holding dual knifes. Above him is the Songhai flag, which has a green star and red background.
Anyways people what are your thoughts?
Again I sincerely apologize for posting this in this section. I know this is only suppose to be about things Egypt, but did not want to post in the other section. You guys know why.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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posted
Wow, it looks like you have a very clear idea of where you're going with this story. You even have the minor characters down! That's a lot more than can be said for me, as I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do with my characters and setting. I admit Songhay is not my favorite West African kingdom (I would have gone with Mali or Wagadu/Ghana, as those lasted longer), but other I think this concept has a lot of promise.
quote:You all heard the positive and noble tales of the Western Sudanic civilization whether it be books or the documentaries you see on TV, well Rise of Songhai gives us a different turn, in Rise of Songhai it shows us the dark, brutal, gritty and bloody part of the Western Sudanic kingdoms/Empires. One that we will explore.
I get that you're aiming for the African equivalent of 300, which I support, but I would tread carefully with the dark and brutal component. Africa already suffers from a "savage" stereotype as it is, so over-emphasizing the violent side of African history could have an unintended Apocalypto effect.
Posts: 7085 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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I also enjoyed reading your novel. Actually this going to be more of a Spartacus equivalent. I get what you mean with the dark and brutal comment. But Africans are not going to be portrayed as the stereotypical savage African. In the story line there's going to be a surgery scene. So its not going to show Africans in a bad light like they are just savages. What I mean by dark and brutal is that theres going to be a lot of personal drama. Just think of the TV show Spartacus and how theres a lot of personal drama going on between the characters.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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posted
Looks great, are you going to publish this too on iBooks?
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: Looks great, are you going to publish this too on iBooks?
Most likely not. This is just for fun. Not starting straight away. I have to finish up this other novel I am writing. For right just getting the ideas down.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: Did not want to post this in the Ancient Egypt section. So I apologize for posting it on here.
So I finally decided to try and write a novel based on Africa and African history. This is actually my first novel that is based on the continent. Since African history is one of my favorite(others being South Asian and East Asian) I finally wanted to give it a shot and capture the African world in as much detail as I can. This is a historic novel, but not 100% historically accurate, because there are some twist and few features that I added that did not happen in history. Storyline takes during the Songhai empire. Reason why I am asking you guys for help because some of you(not all) are African or well versed in African history and writing a novel about Africa is very new to me. Anyways the name of the novel right now is Rise Of Songhai. And the title may change if someone offers me a better or if I think of a better one down the road.
Anyways here is what the novel is about. Enjoy!
Rise of Songhai takes you on a journey throughout the whole Western Sudanic. The way of life during that time, the culture, the people and events. Where greats kingdoms and empires came and went. Where great people came and went. Rise of Songhai takes place during the 15th-16th century, during the time of the mighty Songhai, when Songhai was really starting to become the unstoppable force it really was. Our protagonist is Ezequiel Alcaide, now known as Eshan Toure, born to Portuguese scholars/explorers parents trying to reach the fable city known as Timbuktu. Both parents brutally killed by Tuareg slavers. Eshan was the only who survived the attack, at the age of only six years old. Enslaved and sold at such a young age, but adopted by kind but yet powerful elite family who has accepted Eshan as one of them. Throughout this story Eshan must adapt to a new world and people that is not his for the glory of the Songhai empire which he must see rise. The African people are his new brothers and sisters. Islam is his new belief. Songhai is his pride...You all heard the positive and noble tales of the Western Sudanic civilization whether it be books or the documentaries you see on TV, well Rise of Songhai gives us a different turn, in Rise of Songhai it shows us the dark, brutal, gritty and bloody part of the Western Sudanic kingdoms/Empires. One that we will explore.
Protagonist: Ezequiel Alcaide/Eshan Toure-Cocky, arrogant, but yet Brave. Those traits describe Eshan best. Parents killed at a young age right before his eyes by Tuareg slavers. Then sold into slavery and adopted by loving yet honorable parents. Eshan must adapt to a new world and people. As a trained warrior by his adopted father. Eshan fights for Songhai and the people he loves and cares about. Killing anyone who threatens him or his people. But vengeance is his weakness...
Characters so far...
Main characters: Aashif Toure II-Rival, friend and older adopted brother of Eshan. Aashif at first didn't accept Eshan during their encounter in their childhood. But grown to care for his younger brother the more they started to understand one another. Aashif considers Eshan his rival, the two always trying to out compete each other. But always fight as one and brothers when Songhai is in need.
Aissatou-The most beautiful women Eshan has laid eyes on and love interest of Eshan. Aissatou is a Fulani teacher in Timbuktu. Intelligent, kind and ambitious. At first she disliked Eshan arrogance and wanted nothing to do with him. But throughout time warmed up to him and appreciated his braveless.
Aashif Toure I-One of the elite and upper class people of the Songhai Empire. Of Songhay and Mandinka descent. Once a warrior, but now wealthy. Aashif Toure I is honorable, brave, strong and kind. He is the man that made Eshan into the fierce warrior that he is. Father of both Eshan and his adopted brother. Aashif Toure I rescued Eshan from slavery because he said he seem something in Eshan. Aashif Toure I was one of the greatest soldiers of the Songhai Empire. He once served under the great Sonni Ali Ber and his conquest. He was a part of the invasions of Senegal and Timbuktu and the end of the Mali Empire. All under Sonni Ali Ber.
Azrur Shaheen=Not your typical nomadic Tuareg. Handsome, playboy, ladies man, yet a devout Muslim. Childhood friend of both Eshan and Aashif Toure II, at a young age they were a trio and still are. Now a merchant and trader looking for some money and adventure. But always gets Eshan into his problems that Esham must solve. Which comes to Eshan annoyance.
Secondary characters: Askia Muhammad-Once a general of Songhai. With the help of the Toure brothers, he challenges Sunni Baru rule and defeats him. After he takes throne, makes Songhai the largest empire in African history. His policies resulted in a rapid expansion of trade with Europe and Asia, the creation of many schools, and made Islam an integral part of the empire. Songhai then experiences a cultural revival it has never seen before. Eshan looks to him as a role model.
Ahmed Bashara-An old Scholar and owner of a large library in Timbuktu. A respected person by his peers. Taught in Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt and even the Middle East. Has written dozens of manuscripts in both Songhay and Arabic languages. A role model to Eshan.
Musad-Teacher of Eshan when he was young. Very strict and at first thought Eshan was a waste of time and did not believe he belonged, but his views on Eshan changed later on.
Issa-A Dogon chief. Feels his peoples way of life are in danger by the Songhai empire.
Ishaq Muhammad-Arab merchant. Always trying to sell something. Funny, but always annoying.
Leopoldo Leggièri-An Italian merchant and friend of Eshan. Also a perverted artist which comes to Eshan and others annoyance. Loves painting naked women.
Michael Eliad-An old Jewish Hebrew merchant who misses his family. Him and Eshan become close.
Buba Abdul-Fierce Mandinka warrior of the Songhai.
Anelie-One of the Enslaved European women who Eshan tries to help. Of slavic descent. Enslaved as a sex slave.
Fahyim Quadri-A Berber from Tunisia. Is best friends with Bashara and always loyal to him. Always hangs out with him.
Abdul Karim Hussein-An Egyptian scholar and professor from Cairo. Kind and generous.
Ladi-A strong Hausa warrior that will defend Kano with her life.
Minor characters: Idder-Tuareg salt trader.
Joannes Leo Africanus-An Amazigh who visits Timbuktu
Nabil-An government official.
Samake-Famed musician of Songhai.
Bakari Ali-Songhai's famed griot of Songhay and Wolof descent. Always hangs around his group and tells the most amazing stories to Esham and others.
Antagonist/Enemies: Sunni Baru-Refused to declare himself a Muslim. Was not a great ruler like his father Sonni Ali Ber. His rule was short lived.
Fareeq Adul-Often jealous and hateful of Eshan. Always plans to plot against him. Becomes a general in the Songhai Empire.
Usem-The ruthless Tuareg slave trader who killed Eshams parents. Not only is he cruel but will do anything to kill Esham, even if any of his clan members gets in the way. Esham vows vengeance against him. He haunts Esham and his image will never leave Eshams mind.
Sadaqat Hashemi-A ruthless and bloodthirsty Arab slave trader all the way from Zanzibar. Allies with Usem to kill Esham. Hates Esham just as much as Usem. Has one eye, easily angered and tortures his slaves just for the amusement. Has many concubines who he treats awfully.
Babangida Abad-A ruthless yet honorable Hausa General of the Kano Kingdom. Will do anything at all cost to defend Kano and the Hausa states from the Songhai Empire under Askia.
Again this a dark and brutal story. Its basically rated R. I'll give you a hint...Think of the TV show Spartacus but 10x worse. That'll give you an idea.
Note this is just a rough draft. The title, names, characters,locations most likely will be changed/replaced.
Again I need help....Books that on the Songhai empire, the way of life people, how they dressed, culture, political system, military,etc would be much helpful and some ideas also.
This does not need to be 100% historically accurate but at least 75%...
And just for fun...I drew a picture of the protagonist. http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q701/Matthews1986/temporary_zpsee0a2ba0.jpg ^^^I kinda missed up on the color because I was in a complete rush. Also my phone camera completely sucks at taking pictures. You can't see his face because its hidden in the shadows. Outfit/Attire colors are red, black and white/grey. He wears a black hood and cape. In his hands he is holding dual knifes. Above him is the Songhai flag, which has a green star and red background.
Anyways people what are your thoughts?
Again I sincerely apologize for posting this in this section. I know this is only suppose to be about things Egypt, but did not want to post in the other section. You guys know why.
This looks very promising and I actually plan to eventually take on a similar endeavor. The only thing I'd be inclined to suggest is for you to read, if you have not already, and model your work after Maryse Conde's "Segu". Your idea feels as if it can be a prequel to that particular work.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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I also notice that you are well versed on Western Sudanic civilizations. Can you recommend me any books specifically on the Songhai or post some interesting sources on the way of life in the Songhai? Much would be appreciated.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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posted
I would advise you to read credited books on the topic. Every day, book publishers and film studios get bombarded with lay people who think they can just pick up a pen and write a high quality fiction. It has gotten to the point where agents and publishers have become highly selective and effective in dismissing otherwise potential having manuscripts.
Writing fiction is a craft, and it should be approached as such. It requires awareness of very specific techniques and dos and don'ts that need to be heeded if you want to create a memorable and marketable story. If you've already read such works and plan to implement their advice then you're well on your way because, from here, it looks interesting so far. If you just want to write a book for creative, non-commercial reasons, then the above caveats don't have to apply. I hope you pull through and wish you lots of inspiration because its not going to be easy when you get past designing the overall structure (which is where you seem to be right now), and get into filling each successive page with content that will keep your readers glued to your book. Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: I would advise you to read credited books on the topic. Every day, book publishers and film studios get bombarded with lay people who think they can just pick up a pen and write a high quality fiction. It has gotten to the point where agents and publishers have become highly selective and effective in dismissing otherwise potential having manuscripts.
Writing fiction is a craft, and it should be approached as such. It requires awareness of very specific techniques and dos and don'ts that need to be heeded if you want to create a memorable and marketable story. If you've already read such works and plan to implement their advice then you're well on your way because, from here, it looks interesting so far. If you just want to write a book for creative, non-commercial reasons, then the above caveats don't have to apply. I hope you pull through and wish you lots of inspiration because its not going to be easy when you get past designing the overall structure (which is where you seem to be right now), and get into filling each successive page with content that will keep your readers glued to your book.
Thanks! And good post.
One problem I am having so far is the timeline and how everything will fit in. The story takes place between the 15th and 16th century and its a historic story, so everything has to be in historic canon order. Also I'm going to need to master the English language more.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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posted
You're not a native speaker? That's not a problem. You can hire an editor later. For now, I would just worry about getting your thoughts on paper.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: You're not a native speaker? That's not a problem. You can hire an editor later. For now, I would just worry about getting your thoughts on paper.
Oh yes...I'm a native speaker, born in the USA. What I mean is I want to learn more big words than I already do and my grammar could use some more work.
But now that you mention the editor part, I feel relieved. I hope for one day to turn this into a film. Right now I am still in film school.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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posted
Some of you guys may be wondering why I added non African characters like Arabs, Jews and even Europeans. Well...The Sahelian empires, especially Timbuktu during that time was VERY diverse due to different people wanting to enter due to the success. Timbuktu was like a commercial area with different people coming in and out. Mali/Songhai's education and trading attracted many scholars, merchants,professors,etc around the world.
I just wanted to0 capture that.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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How did people during the Songhai empire dress? I know the empire was extremely wealthy at its peak...What type of clothing did they wear? Was it the traditional West African Sahel clothing we see today in Mali? Or a more Islamic attire with a turban?
Or did they dress in a more Islamic attire with a hijab. I heard in West African Islam women don't have to wear hijabs or completely cover themselves. Also I know most of the population was wealthy so they must have dressed nice most of the time.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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posted
I like the diversity of your cast.
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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The Western Sudanic kingdoms/empires were very diverse especially during Songhais time and especially the city of Timbuktu which was much larger back then(so was Gao). There were many non Africans in the Western Sudanic kingdoms.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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^This depends on what you mean by "many" as well as what you consider "African".
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: Some of you guys may be wondering why I added non African characters like Arabs, Jews and even Europeans. Well...The Sahelian empires, especially Timbuktu during that time was VERY diverse due to different people wanting to enter due to the success. Timbuktu was like a commercial area with different people coming in and out. Mali/Songhai's education and trading attracted many scholars, merchants,professors,etc around the world.
I just wanted to0 capture that.
I'd argue that the European presence was VERY minimal if not nonexistent (I've seen little evidence of their actual presence). Arabs and Jews, while present were not as prominent either. In fact, Songhay very much so treated foreigners, or so-called "Whites" as respected minorities and transients. In fact, the "korei-farma" was a specific title used by an appointed representative of the Askias to handle their affairs. Conversely, Ibn Battuta was under the impression that while the area was generally safe terrain (Mali specifically), there were certainly places within which "Whites" were not even allowed:
quote:Thence the Nile [Niger] descends to Tumbuktu [Timbuktoo] and Gawgaw [Gogo], both of which will be described later; then to the town of Muli in the land of the Limis, which is the frontier province of [the kingdom of] Malli; thence to Yufi, one of the largest towns of the negroes, whose ruler is one of the most considerable of the negro rulers. It cannot be visited by any white man because they would kill him before he got there.
-Ibn Battuta
The bulk of the scholars, important figures and residents in the Sahelian kingdoms overwhelmingly comprised indigenous Africans, which included Mande (Soninke, Malinke), Tuareg/Sanhaja, Fulani, and others. All of this stuff about extra-regional "diversity" comes from White liberalism and denial of a uniquely AFRICAN history.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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^^^I am not talking about denying African history. But didn't Mali or Songhai especially Timbuktu attract non Africans like Europeans and Middle Easterners? Not saying that they were the majority or anything, because of course Songhai was a black controlled empire. But I heard cities like Timbuktu, Djenne and Gao were large commercial areas attracting many different merchants and traders. I also heard that the Songhai empire slaves were mostly made up of Europeans and I also heard Turkish slaves were in high demand. Again just saying the Sahelian empire/kingdoms attracted many people especially some non Africans, but does non Africans were just a minority and didn't control anything. Sorta like Africans in early Briton/London. Also I know there were certain places whites couldn't go, but they were mostly traders/merchants. IMO I think we start to see more whites in the Sahel regions compared to other timelines in the 15/16th century.
I personally don't think this is denying African history but showing African history IS infact important/relevant because non Africans so badly wanted to go to the Sahelian empires/kingdoms.
Just my two cents.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: ^^^I am not talking about denying African history. But didn't Mali or Songhai especially Timbuktu attract non Africans like Europeans and Middle Easterners? Not saying that they were the majority or anything, because of course Songhai was a black controlled empire. But I heard cities like Timbuktu, Djenne and Gao were large commercial areas attracting many different merchants and traders. I also heard that the Songhai empire slaves were mostly made up of Europeans and I also heard Turkish slaves were in high demand. Again just saying the Sahelian empire/kingdoms attracted many people especially some non Africans, but does non Africans were just a minority and didn't control anything. Sorta like Africans in early Briton/London. Also I know there were certain places whites couldn't go, but they were mostly traders/merchants. IMO I think we start to see more whites in the Sahel regions compared to other timelines in the 15/16th century.
I personally don't think this is denying African history but showing African history IS infact important/relevant because non Africans so badly wanted to go to the Sahelian empires/kingdoms.
Just my two cents.
It's ok, it's just that the presence of traders and foreigners have already been the focus in many publications about those empires. It would be more interesting to study and publish their history from an indigenous perceptive (using all the sources).
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
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^^^True, true. But just saying I already know Africans were the complete majority and controlled everything. I just wanted to add a little diversity to the cast.
Ancient Rome was a European civilization yet it was very diverse with many non whites, yet people never mention that.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: ^^^I am not talking about denying African history. But didn't Mali or Songhai especially Timbuktu attract non Africans like Europeans and Middle Easterners? Not saying that they were the majority or anything, because of course Songhai was a black controlled empire. But I heard cities like Timbuktu, Djenne and Gao were large commercial areas attracting many different merchants and traders. I also heard that the Songhai empire slaves were mostly made up of Europeans and I also heard Turkish slaves were in high demand. Again just saying the Sahelian empire/kingdoms attracted many people especially some non Africans, but does non Africans were just a minority and didn't control anything. Sorta like Africans in early Briton/London. Also I know there were certain places whites couldn't go, but they were mostly traders/merchants. IMO I think we start to see more whites in the Sahel regions compared to other timelines in the 15/16th century.
I personally don't think this is denying African history but showing African history IS infact important/relevant because non Africans so badly wanted to go to the Sahelian empires/kingdoms.
Just my two cents.
No problem. I agree with the gist of what you're doing. And yes, there were records of Turkish slave women within the empires from certain sources but I wasn't sure whether or not to count them among the "Europeans".
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: ^^^I am not talking about denying African history. But didn't Mali or Songhai especially Timbuktu attract non Africans like Europeans and Middle Easterners? Not saying that they were the majority or anything, because of course Songhai was a black controlled empire. But I heard cities like Timbuktu, Djenne and Gao were large commercial areas attracting many different merchants and traders. I also heard that the Songhai empire slaves were mostly made up of Europeans and I also heard Turkish slaves were in high demand. Again just saying the Sahelian empire/kingdoms attracted many people especially some non Africans, but does non Africans were just a minority and didn't control anything. Sorta like Africans in early Briton/London. Also I know there were certain places whites couldn't go, but they were mostly traders/merchants. IMO I think we start to see more whites in the Sahel regions compared to other timelines in the 15/16th century.
I personally don't think this is denying African history but showing African history IS infact important/relevant because non Africans so badly wanted to go to the Sahelian empires/kingdoms.
Just my two cents.
No problem. I agree with the gist of what you're doing. And yes, there were records of Turkish slave women within the empires from certain sources but I wasn't sure whether or not to count them among the "Europeans".
Yeah sometimes Turkish people are not counted as European. But weren't their European slaves in Timbuktu who they gotten from North Africans? Also I keep hearing prior to the 19th century that many people around the world including people from Europe all wanted to go to Timbuktu due to Timbuktu's intellectual culture and universities. I know must Euros failed to make it to Timbuktu, but wasn't there mostly Islamic Europeans in Timbuktu from Southern Europe? Because I know Southern Europe was more connected to the Muslim world than the rest of Europe.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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posted
Hey everyone...I just need some clarifications. The clarifications being how I described these particular ethnic groups physical characteristics in my Novel. I want to know if my descriptions of these particular ethnic groups are accurate or accurate during that century. Tuaregs, Fulanis, Moroccans and Egyptians are the four ethnic/nationalities that I am most curious about in depicting. I want to know if my description of the them is accurate.
Anyway here is how their looks are described in the Novel:
Fulanis:
Fulanis are described as having light brown skin to very dark brown skin complexion. Hair varies from loose wavy to very kinky. Broad to narrow noses. Elongated in body type.
Tuaregs:
Tuaregs are described as having swarthy, light brown and jet black skin complexion. Hair varies from straight, loose/wavy and very kinky. Facial features varies from broad to narrow.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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