quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: The suggestion that people in the Sahel are environmentally suited for such a "terrain" would have to be based on something other than the eyeballing of people who have been mixing for thousand of years in those regions, like the Sudanese, Fulani, Tibbu, Beja and other peoples of the Sahel They all have individuals with hair indexes of highly diverse and different indexes and apearance due to that historically documented admixture. That IS ALL that can be scientifically deduced.
posted
The above is obviously baseless babble by someone who has never been the location to experience what actually can cause these traits such as thin hair texture etc...nor does the map subscribe to anything of main importance. Consequence of interpretation.
It's funny because the explanation to why Eurasians whites etc... are the way they are is left without bother. As if their traits appeared from thin air. Poof. LOL
What I like to see, lioness is the transgression faces from stereotype African to stereotype European / Eurasian. LOL
Show the intermediate faces. You dullard.
Repost,
African Archaeological Review
John E. Yellen National Science Foundation, 4201 Wilson Boulevard, Arlington, Virginia 22230
Abstract Examination of African barbed bone points recovered from Holocene sites provides a context to interpret three Late Pleistocene occurrences from Katanda and Ishango, Zaire, and White Paintings Shelter, Botswana. In sites dated to ca. 10,000 BP and younger, such artifacts are found widely distributed across the Sahara Desert, the Sahel, the Nile, and the East African Lakes. They are present in both ceramic and aceramic contexts, sometimes associated with domesticates. The almost-universal presence of fish remains indicates a subsistence adaptation which incorporates a riverine/lacustrine component. Typologically these points exhibit sufficient similarity in form and method of manufacture to be subsumed within a single African “tradition.”They are absent at Fayum, where a distinct Natufian form occurs. Specimens dating to ca. 20,000 BP at Ishango, possibly a similar age at White Paintings Shelter, and up to 90,000 BP at Katanda clearly fall within this same African tradition and thus indicate a very long-term continuity which crosses traditionally conceived sub-Saharan cultural boundaries.
And more recent sources:
Volume 300, 25 June 2013, Pages 153–170
The Middle Palaeolithic in the Desert
The Middle Stone Age of the Central Sahara: Biogeographical opportunities and technological strategies in later human evolution
According to lioness this is due to recent slaves / slavery from the "sub-Sahara"
I forgot to respond to this. Thats more of loose type hair right? Also in my opinion, out of all the Northwest African countries it seems Morocco has the most African component.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I read awhile go that libya is about 30% to 50% black today.
In the 1580s, the rulers of Fezzan gave their allegiance to the sultan, and although Ottoman authority was absent in Cyrenaica, a bey was stationed in Benghazi late in the next century to act as agent of the government in Tripoli. European slaves and large numbers of enslaved blacks transported from Sudan were also a feature of everyday life in Tripoli. In 1551, Turgut Reis enslaved almost the entire population of the Maltese island of Gozo, some 6,300 people, sending them to Libya. Under Gaddafi, foreign workers accounted for about one quarter of Libya's six million population. Most came from Africa, poor immigrants seeking jobs in Libya's oil, agriculture or other sectors.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I read awhile go that libya is about 30% to 50% black today.
In the 1580s, the rulers of Fezzan gave their allegiance to the sultan, and although Ottoman authority was absent in Cyrenaica, a bey was stationed in Benghazi late in the next century to act as agent of the government in Tripoli. European slaves and large numbers of enslaved blacks transported from Sudan were also a feature of everyday life in Tripoli. In 1551, Turgut Reis enslaved almost the entire population of the Maltese island of Gozo, some 6,300 people, sending them to Libya. Under Gaddafi, foreign workers accounted for about one quarter of Libya's six million population. Most came from Africa, poor immigrants seeking jobs in Libya's oil, agriculture or other sectors.
Activity patterns in the Sahara Desert: an interpretation based on cross-sectional geometric properties.
Nikita E, Siew YY, Stock J, Mattingly D, Lahr MM.
Source
University of Cambridge, Leverhulme Center for Human Evolutionary Studies, Fitzwilliam Street, Cambridge, CB2 1QH,
Abstract
quote:
The Garamantian civilization flourished in modern Fezzan, Libya, between 900 BC and 500 AD, during which the aridification of the Sahara was well established. Study of the archaeological remains suggests a population successful at coping with a harsh environment of high and fluctuating temperatures and reduced water and food resources. This study explores the activity patterns of the Garamantes by means of cross-sectional geometric properties. Long bone diaphyseal shape and rigidity are compared between the Garamantes and populations from Egypt and Sudan, namely from the sites of Kerma, el-Badari, and Jebel Moya, to determine whether the Garamantian daily activities were more strenuous than those of other North African populations. Moreover, sexual dimorphism and bilateral asymmetry are assessed at an intra- and inter-population level. The inter-population comparisons showed the Garamantes not to be more robust than the comparative populations, suggesting that the daily Garamantian activities necessary for survival in the Sahara Desert did not generally impose greater loads than those of other North African populations. Sexual dimorphism and bilateral asymmetry in almost all geometric properties of the long limbs were comparatively low among the Garamantes. Only the lower limbs were significantly stronger among males than females, possibly due to higher levels of mobility associated with herding. The lack of systematic bilateral asymmetry in cross-sectional geometric properties may relate to the involvement of the population in bilaterally intensive activities or the lack of regular repetition of unilateral activities.
Am J Phys Anthropol. 2012 Feb;147(2):280-92. doi: 10.1002/ajpa.21645. Epub 2011 Dec 20.
Sahara: Barrier or corridor? Nonmetric cranial traits and biological affinities of North African late Holocene populations. Nikita E, Mattingly D, Lahr MM.
Source
Leverhulme Centre for Human Evolutionary Studies, Department of Biological Anthropology, University of Cambridge, Fitzwilliam Street, Cambridge, UK.
Abstract
quote:
The Garamantes flourished in southwestern Libya, in the core of the Sahara Desert ~3,000 years ago and largely controlled trans-Saharan trade. Their biological affinities to other North African populations, including the Egyptian, Algerian, Tunisian and Sudanese, roughly contemporary to them, are examined by means of cranial nonmetric traits using the Mean Measure of Divergence and Mahalanobis D(2) distance. The aim is to shed light on the extent to which the Sahara Desert inhibited extensive population movements and gene flow. Our results show that the Garamantes possess distant affinities to their neighbors. This relationship may be due to the Central Sahara forming a barrier among groups, despite the archaeological evidence for extended networks of contact. The role of the Sahara as a barrier is further corroborated by the significant correlation between the Mahalanobis D(2) distance and geographic distance between the Garamantes and the other populations under study. In contrast, no clear pattern was observed when all North African populations were examined, indicating that there was no uniform gene flow in the region.
posted
Found a very interesting source...Could explain the origin of modern day North Africans in more detail: Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I read awhile go that libya is about 30% to 50% black today.
50% black
There was a interview with Saif Gaddafi last year when he gave the demographics of Libya. I think if you check YouTube you should be able to find it.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I read awhile go that libya is about 30% to 50% black today.
In the 1580s, the rulers of Fezzan gave their allegiance to the sultan, and although Ottoman authority was absent in Cyrenaica, a bey was stationed in Benghazi late in the next century to act as agent of the government in Tripoli. European slaves and large numbers of enslaved blacks transported from Sudan were also a feature of everyday life in Tripoli. In 1551, Turgut Reis enslaved almost the entire population of the Maltese island of Gozo, some 6,300 people, sending them to Libya. Under Gaddafi, foreign workers accounted for about one quarter of Libya's six million population. Most came from Africa, poor immigrants seeking jobs in Libya's oil, agriculture or other sectors.
more rubbish
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I read awhile go that libya is about 30% to 50% black today.
50% black
There was a interview with Saif Gaddafi last year when he gave the demographics of Libya. I think if you check YouTube you should be able to find it.
This is interesting. Do you have a link?
search youtube, its on there. Just look up "interview with saif gaddafi". I had a old link, but it doesn't work anymore.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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lol i suggest you read that thing you posted. I know english isn't your first language, so maybe get someone to explain it to you. It doesn't prove your point.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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posted
^ What does Islamic slavery have anything to do with the fact that blacks are indigenous to Libya as they are to all of North Africa or Africa in general??
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass,:
So I'm the a-hole for refuting your b.s. picture spam? LOL Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: So I'm the a-hole for refuting your b.s. picture spam? LOL Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. [/QB]
If my user name isn't correct I don't read the post
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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lol i suggest you read that thing you posted. I know english isn't your first language, so maybe get someone to explain it to you. It doesn't prove your point.
quote me, what in particular my point was
And if you have something to say and there is no source link to back it up forget it
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss:2011 libya is 50% black. The blacks are NATIVE. Do we forget blacks are the indigenous and the arabs/white berbers are the new comers so to speak. What is to say outside of the propaganda piece in the OP that those black people in that picture are not natives?
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: 2011
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss:2011 libya is 50% black.
what is your source? (2011)
unanswered since 2011
also name the largest indigenous black ethnic group in Libya that is not berber
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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2003 Middle East Contemporary Survey, Volume 24 edited by Bruce Maddy-Weitzman
^^^ "ONE MILLION INDIGENOUS BLACKS"
population 2000 5.31
at 6 million, 1 million = about 17%
(note the usage of the term 'indigenous blacks" is not clear as to if this 1 million figure means deep rooted indigenous people or simply long term residents, who in the above context are not the African migrant workers (another population) but are not pre historic either So without inidcating the ethnic group one cannot tell if the reference applies to a deep rooted Libyan tribe or some aspect of the claimed 1 million might include blacks who entered the region anytime post Islamic expansion into the Maghreb. Further documenation is necessary that would include tribal names. The above is about modern politics, neverthless in whatever sense 'indigenous blacks' is used here the claim is 1 million in 2003 which is far short of 50%
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ He was quoting Saif Gaddafi. In the end, does it matter what the percentage is?? The point is blacks are indigenous to Libya and were there long before the whites or lighter-skinned people.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: So I'm the a-hole for refuting your b.s. picture spam? LOL Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
If my user name isn't correct I don't read the post [/QB]
Who gives a sh*t. The posts are for everyone with sense! And they all see what a lying Euronut in black face you are!! Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Nice coins of classical North African leaders despite the fact some are very white Europeanize. Juba I doesn't look like his dreadlock black father Juba II. Masinissa, Syphax and Hiaras looks like black East Africans.
quote:Originally posted by mena7: [QB] Nice coins of classical North African leaders despite the fact some are very white Europeanize. Juba I doesn't look like his dreadlock black father Juba II. Masinissa, Syphax and Hiaras looks like black East Africans.
Juba I coins
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Lioness I think this is King Juba I real coin.
This thousand year old coin is in a to good condition and it look like a modern white European, it is a fake.
Posts: 5374 | From: sepedat/sirius | Registered: Jul 2012
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quote:Originally posted by mena7: Lioness I think this is King Juba I real coin.
This thousand year old coin is in a to good condition and it look like a modern white European, it is a fake.
There are old coins in good condition. This is a fact
The coin you are showing is very worn down and you can't tell how the features an detail really are
So because the features may be flattened out by the wear and might be making them look more like a West African you can't just say this one is real and the others are fake because you want Juba to look more West African
Juba I was born in 85 BC
This coin is from around 120 BC of Antiochos VIII Epiphanes SELEUKID KINGS of SYRIA. Antiochos VIII Epiphanes (Grypos). 121/0-97/6 BC. AR Tetradrachm (30mm, 16.09 g, 12h). Sidon mint. Dated SE 197 (116/5 BC). Diademed head right / Zeus Ouranios standing left; ΣIΔΩ/IEP/A and two monograms; I(retrograde P)P (date) in exergue; all within wreath. SC 2330.2; HGC 9, 1197g. VF, toned, minor roughness
mena some people have always saved and collected coins and there are many old coins in pretty good condition
^^^^ If something is worn down like this that wear can be faked also on a modern coin
Onlly a coin expert who is looking at these coins in person can make a good guess if it might be fake or not
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ What does Islamic slavery have anything to do with the fact that blacks are indigenous to Libya as they are to all of North Africa or Africa in general??
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass,:
So I'm the a-hole for refuting your b.s. picture spam? LOL Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
I don't know, you have to ask the silly one Lionness about that question. What I know for sure is, North Africa was considered Ethiop in demographic by all Europeans that wrote about it, from Herodotus to Pliny the Elder, and it isn't until 1100 CE that we hear Ibn Hawqal chime in and say there are two racial groups, the Sudani (black) Sinhaja and the white Sinhaja along the coast. He says the blacks are the original ones and the white ones turn that way because of geographic location. it is far more likely that by 1100 CE these whites were the product of slavery and intermarriage. But it is interesting that we do not hear about sizable white groups until 1100 and it is interesting that when they do appear in large numbers they are considered to be originally black, but turned white due to climate.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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2003 Middle East Contemporary Survey, Volume 24 edited by Bruce Maddy-Weitzman
^^^ "ONE MILLION INDIGENOUS BLACKS"
population 2000 5.31
at 6 million, 1 million = about 17%
(note the usage of the term 'indigenous blacks" is not clear as to if this 1 million figure means deep rooted indigenous people or simply long term residents, who in the above context are not the African migrant workers (another population) but are not pre historic either So without inidcating the ethnic group one cannot tell if the reference applies to a deep rooted Libyan tribe or some aspect of the claimed 1 million might include blacks who entered the region anytime post Islamic expansion into the Maghreb. Further documenation is necessary that would include tribal names. The above is about modern politics, neverthless in whatever sense 'indigenous blacks' is used here the claim is 1 million in 2003 which is far short of 50%
This is stupid for a number of reasons. The most important reason being, I can say Denmark has 100,000 black people who have been there since 500BCE, doesn't make it credible. I would believe a government official of Libya over some non government official any day. How did this source you gave come up with their number? We know the Libyan government has a census, and they have no reason to lie about the number of blacks they have in that country. Your source and reasoning, as usual is deficient.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ He was quoting Saif Gaddafi.
read the posts, you are not following he said Libya was 50% black on 2011 Now in 2014 he claims Saif Gaddafi said it last year but has no source link
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
In the end, does it matter what the percentage is??
ask typezeiss why 50% is emotionally important to him
Read the thread Firewall said 30-40% and typezeiss then made a post trying to correct him that it was 50%
Firewall, typezeiss and Son of Ra are interested in the topic: what percent of Libya is black
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
The point is blacks are indigenous to Libya and were there long before the whites or lighter-skinned people.
quote:Originally posted by typezeiss
The blacks are NATIVE. Do we forget blacks are the indigenous and the arabs/white berbers are the new comers so to speak.
name the largest ethnic group of indigenous blacks in Libya
I dont need to name them, it is relevant. The fact of the matter is, Saif Gaddafi said its 50% black, why would he lie? You on the other hand, who has never been to Africa, barely reads English properly, without the use of Google translate, I would assume, know nothing concerning this fact, its amusing, but a silly argument. Whites are not indigenous to North Africa, that's a fact, sorry to break that to you.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: We know the Libyan government has a census, and they have no reason to lie about the number of blacks they have in that country. Your source and reasoning, as usual is deficient.
stop bullshitting
either you have a source link for a Libyan census and that census includes blacks
or you dont have a source link for a Libyan census and that census includes blacks
obviously you dont so stop blowing hot air and making up percentages out of your head
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ He was quoting Saif Gaddafi.
read the posts, you are not following he said Libya was 50% black on 2011 Now in 2014 he claims Saif Gaddafi said it last year but has no source link
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
In the end, does it matter what the percentage is??
ask typezeiss why 50% is emotionally important to him
Read the thread Firewall said 30-40% and typezeiss then made a post trying to correct him that it was 50%
Firewall, typezeiss and Son of Ra are interested in the topic: what percent of Libya is black
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
The point is blacks are indigenous to Libya and were there long before the whites or lighter-skinned people.
quote:Originally posted by typezeiss
The blacks are NATIVE. Do we forget blacks are the indigenous and the arabs/white berbers are the new comers so to speak.
name the largest ethnic group of indigenous blacks in Libya
I dont need to name them, it is relevant. The fact of the matter is, Saif Gaddafi said its 50% black, why would he lie? You on the other hand, who has never been to Africa, barely reads English properly, without the use of Google translate, I would assume, know nothing concerning this fact, its amusing, but a silly argument. Whites are not indigenous to North Africa, that's a fact, sorry to break that to you.
Man Type, You should know lioness MO..She thinks she knows more about Africans, THEN AFRICANS THEMSELVES. She posts what white "scholars" state and claims it as facts because it jives with what people from the Homeland state.
For her to even question what a LEADER OF THE COUNTRY says simply because she is pro white and wants to write whites in Africa as indeginous people even though everyone knows that Cancer among pale skinned people in Africa is 2nd only to Australia(?) so how can they be normal to Africa is beyond me but she will go broke back with her ideology and obsession even state things like Hair defines ethnicties and claim "Africans can't have straight hair without admixture" She will slink away, only to return later with the same nonsense.
A North African country comes out and says so and so...BUT a Euro established article states otherwise so why should the person who LIVES in the country no what they talking about, when a euro says otherwise. In her mind, accept the euro reject the people who LIVE THERE.
Sad really Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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It starts around 9:30 or so. He doesn't say 50% he says "Half" but it doesn't take anyone with a strong understanding of English to know half = 50%
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: We know the Libyan government has a census, and they have no reason to lie about the number of blacks they have in that country. Your source and reasoning, as usual is deficient.
stop bullshitting
either you have a source link for a Libyan census and that census includes blacks
or you dont have a source link for a Libyan census and that census includes blacks
obviously you dont so stop blowing hot air and making up percentages out of your head
lol, you want me to provide something you can't even provide? Do you know Arabic? NO! Me providing you something from their would be useless, as you don't know or speak Arabic. Next, I have provide a QUOTE from a former Libyan government official. There is nothing more for us to discuss. I don't care how many half witted quotes from Whites, who don't live in Libya, you provide. Libyans know who live in their country, especially a government official, be serious, you sound stupid.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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typezeiss said Libya was 50% black in a 2011 thread
Now in 2014 he says Saif Gaddafi said this in 2013
is this guy black ? If he is, then I take it back, Libya is 50% black
the interview is right above your post you dim wit LOL, this is getting soooo comical. You are rather foolish, and the thing that impresses me with you is, you don't mind letting the world know how foolish you are, its like you take pride in it.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: Interesting. ^
its only interesting for people who don't know Libyans. I know many of them. You have white ones and the half caste sure. But the over whelming majority of them look one of two ways ie dark black or light skinned black. Many of the light skinned blacks have hair that looks like Brillo pads. I have seen them myself. Some are very fair skinned, and then they have hair like those Khoisan people, I have seen this with my own eyes. Then I have seen others that are black like oil. See, whites want to discard the ones who are light skinned. Which is interesting because if you saw these same people in America or somewhere else in the western world, they would be called black people. But to perpetuate eurocentric lies, they want to discard the light ones. I mean these people have mixed for a long time, so naturally you are going to have people ranging in all spectra of the "black" range. Even in Nigeria, Sierra Leone and other places you see jet black to very light skinned people, but no one would question that any of them are not blacks. It is only in North Africa that these whites start getting these funny definitions.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: thank you now you have done a proper source
now Son of Ra I dont have time now but he said or defence minister is black and somebody else, check the photos
I still dont think Libya is half black just because he said it is They had no census indicating this
The interview is 2011 not 2013 as he claimed
lol it doesn't matter what you "think" if you can call what you are doing "thinking". Nor do you know if they have a census or not as you do not speak Arabic, so how the hell would you know? LOL funny and foolish all at once.
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