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Author Topic: Secret tomb belonging to an Ancient Egyptian 'Priest of Magic' discovered 4,500 years
Son of Ra
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Now this is interesting...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2474919/Secret-tomb-belonging-Ancient-Egyptian-Priest-Magic-discovered.html

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mena7
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Great post Son of Ra it is wonderful that the Ancient Egyptian had a head of Upper and Lower Egypt Physician in the fifth dynasty Old Kingdom era 4500 years ago.

All the school and universities in the world should be teaching the Ancient Egyptian are the Inventor of medical science.

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mena

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Son of Ra
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^Agreed. [Smile]
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sam p
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quote:
Some of the 'cures' composed of 600 drugs and 800 procedures, developed by the ancient physicians - such as applying direct pressure to cuts - are still used today.

It's funny that we put pressure on a cut and consider it rocket science and they did brain surgery and we consider it magic. We are simply mistranslating words like "magic" and "priest". The word they normally used for "magic" was "heka" and actually meant "observation" and the word we mistranslate as "priest" meant "scientist".

The scientists and physicians specialized because there was too much knowledge for most people to be able to do it all and not because they worshipped different "gods" (which is a mistranslation of "natural phenomena").

Modern people need to believe our ancestors were barefoot bumpkins so this is what we see.

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Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

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Brada-Anansi
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Reposted at ESR
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Son of Ra
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quote:
Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Reposted at ESR

Thanks for doing this! And I miss you posting on here. Some of your threads, especially about Carthage were pretty darn good.
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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:
Now this is interesting...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2474919/Secret-tomb-belonging-Ancient-Egyptian-Priest-Magic-discovered.html

Euronuts are going to claim the images are "white".
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Doug M
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Man I would be excited but I am not. Don't you know that there are MANY old kingdom tombs belonging to physicians that have been found going back to the beginning of Egyptology? Man. I wish I had time to dig back through the archives and other sources to list them all. The point is that most of these tombs and their artifacts have been COVER UP by the Europeans because they could not accept Africans as the fathers and mothers of medicine. Anybody who believes this is the first tomb of its kind discovered from the old kingdom needs to read books about old kingdom tombs that have been unearth over the last few hundred years. Most of these tombs were documented 100 years ago but most of the contents and artifacts along with the OBVIOUS implications have been kept hidden away in old dusty scholarly journals for years. This isn't new at all.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=18F1B46B691E5F29011239568D090466.journals?fromPage=online&aid=403149

quote:

Ni-Ankh-Sekhmet has always been referred to as the first rhinologist in history. Translations of the hieroglyphics depicted on all the illustrations accompanying previous publications do not substantiate this claim. The research presented is a result of an investigation of the original monument related to the doctor at its present location in the Egyptian Museum, Cairo. The research proves that Ni-Ankh-Sekhmet was the first rhinologist in history.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=18F1B46B691E5F29011239568D090466.journals?fromPage=online&aid=403149


http://books.google.com/books?id=J6MmWuzSxh8C&pg=PA139&lpg=PA139&dq=old+kingdom+tomb+physician&source=bl&ots=tY03Fbl3JJ&sig=P3sQm1Rxi27sQTWx9xuxTU_M8v4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Xj12UuDvNO_lsA Tq7ICoBg&ved=0CGcQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=old%20kingdom%20tomb%20physician&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=3SwyAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA208&dq=physician+old+kingdom&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Kz92UpPWA-PksAS0loCwBQ&ved=0CEYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=physician%20old%20kingdom&f=false


quote:

"Archaeologists are sizing up a splendid painted anthropoid wooden sarcophagus found by chance at the Saqqara necropolis last week..
The sarcophagus was found by an Egyptian archaeological mission engaged in cleaning the burial shaft of the sixth- dynasty royal physician Qar, which neighbours King Djoser's pyramid complex at Saqqara almost 35km south of the Giza Plateau.
The team, which is led by Zahi Hawass, secretary-general of the Supreme Council of Antiquities (SCA), was taken by surprise when they stumbled upon the beautifully-painted anthropoid coffin. The covering featured a bearded man with a reddish brown face and large, open eyes lined with black kohl, thick eyebrows and red lips. His garment is painted dark blue and embellished by a collar with three rows of blue, green and yellow cylindrical beads and a pendant adorned with a figure of Maat, the goddess of justice, stretching her wings in a way that enables her to hold both sides of the lid."
See the above page for the full story and a lovely photograph.

http://egyptology.blogspot.com/2006/12/more-re-6th-dynasty-physician-qar.html


There are numerous tombs from the old kingdom that have been identified with Physicians, not to mention later dynasties:

http://www.academia.edu/3576029/The_Life_and_Career_of_Nebamun_The_Physician_of_the_King_in_Thebes

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/07/photogalleries/100709-science-ancient-egypt-tombs-false-doors-pictures/#/egypt-false-door-dig_23171_600x450.jpg

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Doug M
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Here is another example, this time of female physicians, who of course are associated with childbirth, menstal cycles and general female health (which is also factored into the cosmology of ancient Egypt):

quote:

Peseshet, who lived under the Fourth Dynasty, is often credited with being the earliest known female physician in ancient Egypt, though another, Merit-Ptah lived earlier. Her title was "lady overseer of the female physicians,"but whether she was a physician herself is uncertain.

She had a son Akhethetep, in whose mastaba at Giza her personal stela was found.

She may have graduated midwives at an ancient Egyptian medical school in Sais; midwifery must have existed, even though no ancient Egyptian term for it is known.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peseshet
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Son of Ra
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@Troll Patrol

Even if the tried to..."White" represented the deceased in Ancient Egyptian culture. Correct me if I am wrong, but thats what I've read and the color black represented someone who was reborn.

@Doug M

Great post!

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the lioness,
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http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/files/2012/11/hl-ancient-e

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please identify the person^^^^

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xn2QfzlRe2M/S8jK4oQTkpI/AAAAAAAAAeQ/M3IJQdepL8g/s320/egyptplant.gif

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:

Now this is interesting...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2474919/Secret-tomb-belonging-Ancient-Egyptian-Priest-Magic-discovered.html

Very interesting. It's evident by his title as 'Priest of Magic' that he was a medicine man or shaman who employed the use of mystic techniques in healing along with practical scientific ones. Funny how Egyptians of such occupations are labeled simply as "physicians" by Westerners but other Africans of the exact same occupation and practices are labeled as "witch-doctors". [Embarrassed]

By the way, one of the threads I plan on creating is about Egyptian medicine men or shamans.

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sam p
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quote:
Very interesting. It's evident by his title as 'Priest of Magic' that he was a medicine man or shaman who employed the use of mystic techniques in healing along with practical scientific ones. Funny how Egyptians of such occupations are labeled simply as "physicians" by Westerners but other Africans of the exact same occupation and practices are labeled as "witch-doctors".

By the way, one of the threads I plan on creating is about Egyptian medicine men or shamans.

It's obvious the title is a mistranslation based on modern beliefs that the ancients were superstitious bumpkins. It is simply impossible to have performed brain surgery and have patients survive using magic or a belief in gods. A christian or muslim brain surgeon today does not require nor fall back on his religious beliefs to perform their jobs. They might say a little prayer but if this is required for success then the patient doesn't have a prayer.
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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by sam p:
quote:
Very interesting. It's evident by his title as 'Priest of Magic' that he was a medicine man or shaman who employed the use of mystic techniques in healing along with practical scientific ones. Funny how Egyptians of such occupations are labeled simply as "physicians" by Westerners but other Africans of the exact same occupation and practices are labeled as "witch-doctors".

By the way, one of the threads I plan on creating is about Egyptian medicine men or shamans.

It's obvious the title is a mistranslation based on modern beliefs that the ancients were superstitious bumpkins. It is simply impossible to have performed brain surgery and have patients survive using magic or a belief in gods. A christian or muslim brain surgeon today does not require nor fall back on his religious beliefs to perform their jobs. They might say a little prayer but if this is required for success then the patient doesn't have a prayer.
You must understand that religion while pervading EVERYTHING the Egyptians did was more than just mere "superstition". Of course it takes more than just prayer for surgery to work but understand that faith can be a powerful tool as well. The Egyptians like many ancient peoples both believed in as well as utilized the power of the spirit world when it comes to many things especially healthcare.
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mena7
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Egyptian medical instruments being similar to modern medical instruments are the proof that the Ancient Egyptian were professional doctor not witch Shaman. Egyptian doctors prayed and did religious ritual before there scientific diagnosis, prescriptions and surgeries.
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Son of Ra
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:

Now this is interesting...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2474919/Secret-tomb-belonging-Ancient-Egyptian-Priest-Magic-discovered.html

Very interesting. It's evident by his title as 'Priest of Magic' that he was a medicine man or shaman who employed the use of mystic techniques in healing along with practical scientific ones. Funny how Egyptians of such occupations are labeled simply as "physicians" by Westerners but other Africans of the exact same occupation and practices are labeled as "witch-doctors". [Embarrassed]

By the way, one of the threads I plan on creating is about Egyptian medicine men or shamans.

Great post and agreed. I am interested in your thread about Ancient Egyptians medicine.
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BrandonP
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:

Now this is interesting...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2474919/Secret-tomb-belonging-Ancient-Egyptian-Priest-Magic-discovered.html

Very interesting. It's evident by his title as 'Priest of Magic' that he was a medicine man or shaman who employed the use of mystic techniques in healing along with practical scientific ones. Funny how Egyptians of such occupations are labeled simply as "physicians" by Westerners but other Africans of the exact same occupation and practices are labeled as "witch-doctors". [Embarrassed]

By the way, one of the threads I plan on creating is about Egyptian medicine men or shamans.

That's exactly what I thought. Apparently "physician" has less "tribal" connotations. And I agree that I'd to see this thread.
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sam p
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quote:
You must understand that religion while pervading EVERYTHING the Egyptians did was more than just mere "superstition". Of course it takes more than just prayer for surgery to work but understand that faith can be a powerful tool as well. The Egyptians like many ancient peoples both believed in as well as utilized the power of the spirit world when it comes to many things especially healthcare. [/QB]
Yes. Placebo effect can be a powerful tool in recovery of a patient. If a patient believes he'll get better he is far more likely to recover whether that belief is based on sound scientific principles or mere superstition.

This effect is not so pronounced with the surgeon. No belief will steady his hand or tell him where to cut. Nothing other than learning and experience will tell him what followup care to provide. If a patient survives then the surgeon necessarily knew what to do and did it properly. It had nothing to do with gods or magic.

Learning how to do it had nothing to do with magic either. It required observation and experience. It required centuries of logic and study because such knowledge can't spring up overnight. It is apparent human history was millinea of progress.

I'm strongly of the opinion that we are mistranslating all the scientific words and this is the reason we can't see the science. "Priest" actually meant "one who observes" and was synonymous with "scientist". Doctors were scientists of medicine and what they all studied were "phemonena" and not "gods". The problem is ours.

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by mena7:

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Egyptian medical instruments being similar to modern medical instruments are the proof that the Ancient Egyptians were professional doctors not witch Shamans. Egyptian doctors prayed and did religious ritual before there scientific diagnosis, prescriptions and surgeries.

Where did I disagree that Egyptians were professional doctors?! Of course they were professionals! Not only did they have many of the same tools as modern doctors but they also had schools of medicine as well! The point where I disagree with you is your biased and short-sighted view on witches/shamans (same thing really with 'witch' being the European version). You seem to think that shamans or witches were not professionals but merely practiced in superstition. You are WRONG! All shamans, witches, medicine-folk, etc. employ actual i.e. professional medicinal techniques as well as mystical ones. Unlike most of today's cultures, the ancient medicine-folks integrated physical forms of healing with spiritual ones i.e. magical medicine along with what you call 'professional' medicine. It wasn't simply a matter of the doctor praying or performing a ritual "before" the surgery because the surgery itself was viewed as a ritual both physical as well as spiritual or magical! This is why this chief physician was given the title 'Priest of Magic' because his profession of physician WAS magical!

That is what I'm trying to get people to understand about ancient Egyptian cultural beliefs as well as those of many traditional African cultures and other traditional cultures around the world!

Virtually all of the world's traditions of medicine have very ancient roots in folk medicine that was shamanic. This is as much true in today's 'Western' culture as it is in Oriental or Eastern cultures. For example, not many folks know that the modern word 'pharmacist' is derived from the word pharmakis which was the ancient Greek word for witch!! These pharmakeia (plural) were the original healers and medicine-folk of the Greek world before male physicians of the Asclepian cult took over. Their 'magic' based on the power of drugs (hence their title) as well as incantations and other spiritual rituals was very real and not some mere superstition.

Hence, even today there are pharmaceutical companies and corporate firms who are trying to get a hold of modern day shamans and medicine-folk to exploit them for their medicinal secrets from regions of South America to Africa. Obviously these drug companies see value in these 'witch-doctors', enough to buy them out and make money off of their traditions! [Embarrassed]

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sam p
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quote:


Virtually all of the world's traditions of medicine have very ancient roots in folk medicine that was shamanic.

You're probably correct that I'm too quick to dismiss the effectiveness of shamans and the like but this is largely perspective and my personal beliefs. I don't accept magic as being real in my thought. Yes, there are all sorts of magic in the world but none of it works in logic. Secondly, and more importantly, I simply don't believe that science and medicine originally arose from any sort of magic. I don't believe anyone believed in magic before 2000 BC. I know this is an unusual belief but in my opinion this is much better supported by the evidence than the typical belief that ancient people practiced religion and magic. It appears to me that specialized medicine and brain surgery are very convincing evidence for the existence of true science. Since there's no writing that is in any way "scientific" we have a conundrum. How could science arise and leave no evidence for how they learned about nature and almost none of the results of that science?

I believe there is only one possible answer to this question. I believe that experimental science as is practiced today is not the only kind of science that exists or has existed. I believe that there is a "natural science" practiced by animals and especially humans that was based not on experiment but on observation and logic. I believe all these words we translate as being about religion are actually about ancient science. "Priests" didn't "pray" to "gods" as we translate the ancient language. The proper translation would be "observers of nature" "studied" "natural phenomena". This translation simply removes all the absurdities in our understanding of their religion, magic, and science.

The simplest explanation seems to be that we misunderstand.

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by sam p:

Yes. Placebo effect can be a powerful tool in recovery of a patient. If a patient believes he'll get better he is far more likely to recover whether that belief is based on sound scientific principles or mere superstition.

This effect is not so pronounced with the surgeon. No belief will steady his hand or tell him where to cut. Nothing other than learning and experience will tell him what followup care to provide. If a patient survives then the surgeon necessarily knew what to do and did it properly. It had nothing to do with gods or magic.

Learning how to do it had nothing to do with magic either. It required observation and experience. It required centuries of logic and study because such knowledge can't spring up overnight. It is apparent human history was millinea of progress.

Again your are mistaken. Firstly, it wasn't just a matter of placebo effect. The Egyptians like other ancient peoples believed that the physical body was intimately tied with the intangible spirit. Thus healing, true healing required treatment of both body and spirit. The physical medicinal tools were to heal and repair the body while magic and prayers were to heal repair the spirit both are required to make a patient whole. Of course a physician's knowledge and skill was significant in healing, yet it took more than just that in order to heal a patient. Every modern physician knows that depending on the situation his knowledge and skill won't be enough. That there are other factors as well that are totally out of the physician's power. This is where religion and faith come in. You might be an atheist who denigrates the spiritual beliefs of others, but that still does not change the fact that there are times when no amount of knowledge or skill on a doctor's part can ensure a good outcome. That "chance" or "fate" if you will makes the ultimate difference. And that in the minds of ancient people like the Egyptians this fate ultimately rests on the gods or spirits. This is why all the surviving medical documents from the Egyptians do mention or invoke the names of deities. So please don't project your modern atheistic beliefs onto the Egyptians.

quote:
I'm strongly of the opinion that we are mistranslating all the scientific words and this is the reason we can't see the science. "Priest" actually meant "one who observes" and was synonymous with "scientist". Doctors were scientists of medicine and what they all studied were "phemonena" and not "gods". The problem is ours.
LOL Again your opinion is mistaken because you fail to realize that the Egyptians did NOT separate the scientific from the spiritual or the religious from the secular as we do in today's modern especially Western society! The actual Egyptian word which we translate as 'priest' is hem-netjer which in its direct translation actually means 'god's-servant'!! You are correct that Egyptian priests were scientists, however all of their scientific endeavors were for the purpose of serving their gods! How else can one best serve the gods without understanding the universe which the gods created?

By the way, though we know the Egyptians performed surgical procedures we don't have any records of those procedures and for good reason:

There are two reasons that come to mind. First, there was a prohibition against defiling a human body. Making an incision in the abdomen was, paradoxically, both necessary and yet ritually prohibited. Thus, Diodorus Siculus in his famous description of mummification says:
…the one called the slitter cuts the flesh, as the law commands, with an Ethiopoan stone and at once takes to flight on the run, while those present set out after him, pelting him with stones, heaping curses on him and trying, as it were, to turn profanation on his head; for in their eyes everyone is an object of general hatred who applies violence to the body of the same tribe or wounds him or, in general does any harm (Siculus n.d.).
Obviously, the stoning of the slitter was not intended to cause injury. It was a ritual that had to be directed against those who damaged a human body, even when it was necessary for mummification. Perhaps the opening of a human body and the removal of the internal organs was too profane to be written.

There is a second, and more mundane reason why the surgical procedures in mummification were not written. They were a trade secret. The Hawara Papyri (Reymond 1973) frequently called the "Embalmer's Archive" reveals that the art of mummification was practiced only by families whose trade was caring for the dead. The "Archive" provides specific titles for the members of the profession and makes a distinction between those who perform actual mummification and those who merely carried out funerary rituals. The "Archive" even includes the oath taken by the embalmers of different families to specify the territory each one controlled. Like the "Ritual of Embalming" papyri discussed earlier, the "Archive" makes no mention of surgical procedures. The process may well have been a secret handed down from father to son.

http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?pid=S0717-73562001000100021&script=sci_arttext

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Djehuti
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Oh and just a note. All Egyptian priests were magicians in that they knew magic as magic is part and parcel of the Egyptian religion but not all priests were shamans. Shamans are a particular and unique class of priests or holymen. I'll explain more of this in another thread.
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sam p
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quote:
Again your are mistaken. Firstly, it wasn't just a matter of placebo effect. The Egyptians like other ancient peoples believed that the physical body was intimately tied with the intangible spirit. Thus healing, true healing required treatment of both body and spirit. The physical medicinal tools were to heal and repair the body while magic and prayers were to heal repair the spirit both are required to make a patient whole. Of course a physician's knowledge and skill was significant in healing, yet it took more than just that in order to heal a patient. Every modern physician knows that depending on the situation his knowledge and skill won't be enough. That there are other factors as well that are totally out of the physician's power. This is where religion and faith come in. You might be an atheist who denigrates the spiritual beliefs of others, but that still does not change the fact that there are times when no amount of knowledge or skill on a doctor's part can ensure a good outcome. That "chance" or "fate" if you will makes the ultimate difference. And that in the minds of ancient people like the Egyptians this fate ultimately rests on the gods or spirits. This is why all the surviving medical documents from the Egyptians do mention or invoke the names of deities. So please don't project your modern atheistic beliefs onto the Egyptians.
I'm not really sure how different our opinions really are. We are using vastly different words but we seem to believe about the same thing. Of course there's more to life than science and learning and there's more to a person's life than just his body. There is a soul or spirit or a set of knowledge and experience associated with each person. There are all sorts of magic which we can try to control, observe,or simply ignore. It's not my contention that I or ancient people were immune to things that can't be seen or studied. It is merely my contention that modern science is mute on all subjects outside its metaphysics. It is my contention that ancient science was probably equally incapable of studying "magic". "Magic" was outside the ancient metaphysics as well. I do believe that most individuals of that time were more willing to speak of and consider such subjects but they were as incapable of making observations of it as we are incapable of composing experiments to define it. Magic might not work in science so most modern scientists choose to ignore it while ancient scientists did not. But there is still no evidence that they were able to do concrete things with magic or to learn of the nature of magic.

They did recognize some 300 different human "senses" and to some degree these probably do have some semblance to magic and I should hardly be surprised if some of these might seem almost like magic to modern science. But I believe they were primarily simply abilities to process sensory information on different levels or from different organs than are normally associated with a sense. They could "see" with their hands but this wasn't so much magic as a sensitivity to a different means of experiencing input.

It's quite likely that there's really no such thing as most magic but until it can be qualified, defined, or observed it must be omitted from any type of true science and I'm stongly of the belef that only science returns actual palpable knowledge. One might learn something by roads outside of science and many times it's pure accident but the knowledge will have more to do with observation than witchcraft. Patients survive because of science. Of course their state of mind is paramount but if I see my surgeon rubbing a lucky rabbit's foot before an operation my state of mind will be very poor if I ever wake up.

quote:
Again your opinion is mistaken because you fail to realize that the Egyptians did NOT separate the scientific from the spiritual or the religious from the secular as we do in today's modern especially Western society!
I believe you are conflating the Egyptian beliefs from the time of the book of the dead with their earlier beliefs. There was a massive change in the language, thought, and beliefs of the people. Later people certainly believed in magic and its practice was wiespread. There's no evidence this applies to the earlier people because their writing isn't understood.

The meaning of the word "god" changed. The original meaning was "aspect of nature" or "natural phenomenon".

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by sam p:

I'm not really sure how different our opinions really are. We are using vastly different words but we seem to believe about the same thing. Of course there's more to life than science and learning and there's more to a person's life than just his body. There is a soul or spirit or a set of knowledge and experience associated with each person. There are all sorts of magic which we can try to control, observe,or simply ignore. It's not my contention that I or ancient people were immune to things that can't be seen or studied. It is merely my contention that modern science is mute on all subjects outside its metaphysics. It is my contention that ancient science was probably equally incapable of studying "magic". "Magic" was outside the ancient metaphysics as well. I do believe that most individuals of that time were more willing to speak of and consider such subjects but they were as incapable of making observations of it as we are incapable of composing experiments to define it. Magic might not work in science so most modern scientists choose to ignore it while ancient scientists did not. But there is still no evidence that they were able to do concrete things with magic or to learn of the nature of magic.

They did recognize some 300 different human "senses" and to some degree these probably do have some semblance to magic and I should hardly be surprised if some of these might seem almost like magic to modern science. But I believe they were primarily simply abilities to process sensory information on different levels or from different organs than are normally associated with a sense. They could "see" with their hands but this wasn't so much magic as a sensitivity to a different means of experiencing input.

It's quite likely that there's really no such thing as most magic but until it can be qualified, defined, or observed it must be omitted from any type of true science and I'm strongly of the belief that only science returns actual palpable knowledge. One might learn something by roads outside of science and many times it's pure accident but the knowledge will have more to do with observation than witchcraft. Patients survive because of science. Of course their state of mind is paramount but if I see my surgeon rubbing a lucky rabbit's foot before an operation my state of mind will be very poor if I ever wake up.

And again the issue is not science. Ancient Egyptian medical science while advance for its time was still very limited compared to today. The issue is spiritual beliefs which the Egyptians incorporated into all their practices including the scientific. You seem to conflate all of their beliefs with mere superstition and while many practices can be construed as such, not all are and may have deeper ingrained beliefs in the world.

To the Egyptians 'magic' or heka as they called it was about exerting will in the universe. This was accomplished through both speech and action i.e. incantations as well as an activity. Surgery can be the activity to the Egyptians the process was still magical and doubt the physician still spoke incantations before and/or during the process. Thus to the Egyptians science IS magic.

If a surgeon rubbed a rabbit's foot as part of his personal ritual before operating on me, I for one have no qualms as long as he is a good surgeon.

Here is a good site explaining Egyptian magic and the priests who utilized them:

http://www.experience-ancient-egypt.com/egyptian-magic.html

Heka - Egyptian Magic, The Will To Make Things Happen
Egyptian magic was part of religious and medical practices, as well as forms of vengeful voodoo. The term the ancient Egyptians used to describe magic is "heka".
Heka was believed to be a natural force that is present throughout the universe. It was used by the creator to create and animate the world.
It was also believed to be available for use by both Gods and mortals. Egyptians used it mainly as a means to ward off the forces of evil. Egyptian magic was also used for personal gain - to influence others by casting love spells for example, or even to cause harm to enemies.
However, almost all religious rituals were considered a type of magic. The symbolic meaning of the practices was thought to have influenced the Gods and the forces of nature.
Most rituals included the incantation of spells. Spells consisted of two parts - the words to be spoken and the actions to be followed. Words and names had to be pronounced correctly.

Priest or Magician?
Although the average Egyptian could practice magic, the formal practitioners were the priests.
The priesthood gave them access to magical texts and temple rituals which are off limits to others. It even gave them access to healing magic that was used when no medical cure was available.
The magical texts were studies by lector priests, who would then gain vast knowledge in performing spells for protection, rebirth and healing.
Whatever the case, priests had to be in a state of purity before performing any magic or religious ritual. They would bathe and adorn fresh clothing, abstain from sex, and avoid contact with menstruating women.

Medicine Or Magic?
The ancient Egyptians were plagued with many diseases and health hazards such as Nile parasites and respiratory problems from the sandy environment.
And although for an ancient culture its medical practices were quite advanced (with some techniques still in use today), they were at a loss with much of the ailments.
Some health problems were attributed to Godly wrath or harmful spells - and thus they would turn to magic for help.
The priests who were versed in incantations and trained medically would then be enlisted for help with many medical problems. The priests would then use a combination of medical practices and magical rituals to aid healing.
The spells and speeches were aimed at certain Gods or Goddesses, mainly those who were closely connected to medicine such as:
Thoth - the God associated with writing, including the writing of healing texts.
Sekhmet - the Goddess of the plague.
Serket - the scorpion Goddess whom you could pray to for help with bites and venom.
Some techniques the priests used were:
  • To act out a myth with the patient by reciting speeches and spells.
  • Using substances such as honey or dung to lure out or repel demons that possessed patients.
  • Inscribing protective and healing spells on statues and amulets.

Potions, Wands, Dolls And Dances
Whether for medical or non-medical purposes, there were other techniques used to perform Egyptian Magic:
  • Using magic wands to summon powerful beings or drawing protective circles.
  • Making loud noises by stamping the feet and shouting - performing a sort of magical dance with drums. This would help drive away evil spirits.
  • Using special bowls with written spells that transform water into a healing potion to be drunk or washed with.
  • Some potions were made with ingredients like animal blood.
  • Making wax figures of people to use like voodoo dolls. Either to harm or curse enemies.
If you think about it, the ancient Egyptian idea of what magic is (to make things happen) means that we still practice magic to a certain extent today. Of course most of us don't follow their techniques, but many of us believe in the power of faith and mind over matter.
Prayers and blessings could be considered a spiritual force to make things happen. And also the very old yet newly popular concept of "the law of attraction" (you attract what you think about the most) has become a widely accepted theory.
Ancient Egyptian Magic may have been quite superstitious in techniques, but the meaning behind it was not.


^ Note that many of the magical practices of the priests are eerily similar to those of other African religions such as West African Vodun. One thing the source didn't mention was that the priesthood included females and that evidence suggests priestesses were likely more common among local communities as even today in rural parts of Egypt there are female ritual specialists who are remnants of the ancient tradition.

quote:
I believe you are conflating the Egyptian beliefs from the time of the book of the dead with their earlier beliefs. There was a massive change in the language, thought, and beliefs of the people. Later people certainly believed in magic and its practice was wiespread. There's no evidence this applies to the earlier people because their writing isn't understood.
I have no idea what you mean. Egyptian beliefs remained essentially the same all throughout the dynastic period and even those of the early dynastic and archaic period i.e. Book of the Dead were based on older predynastic beliefs and archaeology is proof enough of this.

quote:
The meaning of the word "god" changed. The original meaning was "aspect of nature" or "natural phenomenon".
What proof do you have for this? The Egyptian word netjer simply meant deity. Therefore the Egyptian word for 'priest' hem-netjer meant god's servant not natural aspect's servant. A deity was thought of as an independent being or entity and not some mere aspect of nature. If a god was the latter than how do you explain deities like Ptah, Djehuti, or Sheshat? Exactly what aspects of nature do these deities represent?
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sam p
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^

Proof will have to wait for basic scientific tests and measurements
to be done on the great pyramids. For now all I can say is that all the
facts and evidence point away from orthodox interpretations. Consider
that there is no writing from befor 2000 BC that is understood. Each trans-
lator simply says that he "circumscribes" the meaning because he doesn't get
author intent. Indeed, there are 27 different sceptres mentioned in an-
cient literature but neither the function nor origin of any at all are known!
It's even worse because the icons, symbols and heiroglyphs arew also wholly or
mostly unknown as well. It is
believed that the Pyramid Texts are incantation and magic but no one can say how
this magic was supposed to work.

I agree that the laterpeopleare well understood as is their "magic". But there
is no reason to be;lieve the older ideas are known at all. If you solve the
PT by context then you find all sorts of information like;

Ba-sceptre is a weir
dm-sceptre is a pulley
shn-sceptre is an oar shaped device to deflect water
hts-sceptre is a guide for ropes
i33t-sceptre is a funnel
w3s-sceptre operated the djed
mks-sceptre was a type of hts-sceptre that is known now as the ceremonial bowl.
nhbt-sceptre was a type of hts-sceptre on a pivot that waved the
variegated feathers of the
mehet weret cow.

There's no proof and no evidence that the ancients believed in magic.
Everything that seems to indicate otherwise is interpretation and this inter-
prtetation is obviously wrong since it has no predictive capability and gives
no knowledge about the ancients or their beliefs. We don't know how
or why they did anything since we don't understand the writing.

Thot was actually the "phenomenon of human progress" which for most
practical purposes makes him the god of language and it was seshat his consort
who was goddess of writing. It's really best to get the idea of gods and magic
out of you head to understand the ancients because they were not familiar
with such concepts. They were scientists much more than they were "relig-
ious.

If you think about it this really becomes obvious simply because magic
doesn't work to understand or control nature. Whether magic exists
or not is immaterial because it doesn't work now and it didn't work 4750 years
ago. You can't use magic to lift stones and you can't use magic to cure patients.

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sam p
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quote:
Egyptian beliefs remained essentially the same all throughout the dynastic period and even those of the early dynastic and archaic period i.e. Book of the Dead were based on older predynastic beliefs and archaeology is proof enough of this.


This is one of the four bedrock assumptions of modern Egyptology. Modern
Egyptology is the people who can't even make such basic determinations as to
what the pyramid is or how it was built. Rather than doing the simple science
like infrared imaging that would show how it was built they employ an inanity,
"They mustta used ramps".

And this "ramp" idea is the second bedrock assumption of modern Egypt-
ology. The other two are that the pyramid is a tomb and that the ancient
people were superstitious.

All four of these assumptions are incorrect. The Pyramid Texts is interpreted
to be like the book of the dead because it is incomprehensible without the
interpretation. It specifically, coherently, and repeatedly says the pyramid
is not a tomb but this is simply interpreted away. Without the assumptions
there is no evidence that the people were superstitious at all.

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Djehuti
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It is an established FACT that the Egyptians believed in magic as it was part and parcel of their religious and spiritual beliefs. It is actually rare for Egyptologists to come into consensus regarding ancient Egyptian views and cultural practices but one of the few things virtually all Egyptologists agree on was the belief and use of magic by Egyptians.

First understand that 'magic' as is understood anthropologically is a technique that uses nature or natural forces which are not entirely understood or can be scientifically explained at least at a certain time. Thus magic can be 'mundane magic' that is techniques that are based on actual science such as alchemy (chemistry) and including biochemistry i.e. drugs. Note that in many ancient cultures including those of the Bible and in Europe call the use of drugs as 'magic'. Of course all of these have scientific explanations that we have today which were not known back then. But then you have 'occult magic' or 'true magic' which are techniques based on spiritual powers which cannot be explained by modern science. BOTH was believed in and used by the Egyptians.

Frankly you fail to provide evidence that dynastic Egyptians believed in magic but that their predynastic ancestors did not. What is your preposition? That the predynastic people were more scientifically enlightened than their descendants that they relied totally on science and not magic but their descendants degenerated into believing in magic??

All the predynastic evidence in the form of iconography, amulets, and talismans say the contrary.

You list the different staves and staffs of the Egyptians and attribute a technological use for them yet there is no evidence for your claims. Like other African cultures, different staves or staffs were used for different ritual purposes.

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sam p
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Yes. Exactly. All Egyptologists believe that ancient Egyptians were superstitious.
The definition of "egyptology" as it applies to the great pyramid builders isthat it
is a set of beliefs that ancient people never changed and were superstitious. This set
of beliefs also holds that the great
pyramids are tombs dragged up ramps.

Every single Egyptologist holds these beliefs by definition. There's no way they
could get out of grad school without adopting these beliefs.

The evidence is pretty much only the Pyramid Texts because no other books survive.
They mistakingly believe this book is about incantation even though it is obviously
a book of ritual. This is, perhaps, their most surprising error of all. They
interpret the PT to be like the book of the dead even though the book of the dead
is perfectly comprehensible and the PT is not comprehensible at all. As proof
of this there are no two Egyptoilogists who agree on the meaning of simple concepts
like the "eye of horus". They don't know what this is and it's impossible to under-
stand the PT if you don't understand basic concepts. If they don't under-
stand the basic concepts then they can't say what these people actually believed.
It's impossible to say the people never changed if there is no starting point.

They mistranslate most of the important words in the PT in exactly the same
way they have always been mistranslated. When the language changed the old lan-
guage wasn't translatable. This has led to the widespread belief that the builders
believed in "gods" and that "heka" is best translated as "magic" when, in fact, a
better translation is "proper observation".

Across the board the translations are misinterpreted and the ancients are misun-
derstood. All of the assumptions are wrong.

All people have always been the same but the way we think has changed.

--------------------
Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

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Djehuti
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^ So you say Egyptologists "believe" the Egyptians to be superstitious. And exactly what do you call superstitious?.. the belief in spirits including demons and deities?? You realize every human society had such beliefs including the Mesopotamians, Greeks, and Chinese.

You do realize that virtually all of Egyptian civilizations accomplishments from the pyramids to the temples were all based on their religious beliefs, do you not?

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sam p
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Modern people are all superstitious. Some are a little less superstitious than
others but it afflicts us all. I simply don't believe this applied to ancient
people. They were extremely ritualistic but they mostly believed only in what their
observational science learned.

I should add that the primary source for my belief that they lacked superstition
and for what they believed is the PT. While I strongly believe that my "interpretation"
is correct the fact is that this is just a snapshot of what the scientists who wrote
this thought about the rituals involved in
the ascension of the dead king. There are a great number of deductions and places
to go wrong. But this should be a far more accurate picture of their true thinking
than what is assumed by Egyptologists.

It's not impossible I'm wrong and I'm certainly wrong in part. The PT simply
don't support the orthodox assumptions. They say over and over that the pyramid
is not a tomb and this is just interpreted out of the understanding.

--------------------
Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

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Swenet
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Egyptian's use of fertility dolls, amulets, Voodoo
(e.g. crushing images of enemies can bring harm to
them), prophets, oracles, Shabti figures, Canopic
jars, etc. aren't exemplary of their superstition?

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sam p
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I believe that the Pyramid Texts is pretty much entirely ritual. Some of these
rituals appear to have been read at some exceedingly inconsequential events and
ceremonies. There's one that appears to have been penned just for the time
they spent waiting for the ascender to stabilize after another stone was placed on it.
Another is just some words written for the quarry workers to remind them to stay
safe and to be efficient and productive.

My guess is that ritual was a much bigger piece of peoples' lives in ancient
times. Perhaps it was a sort of natural way for them to slow down and take stock
or maybe it's a natural outgrowth of the way they thought. I believe that the people
were essentially like us but they thought and spoke differently and this resulted
in different behavior. We mistake this behavior as evidence for religion and super-
stitions but superstition is almost impossible when language is metaphysical. A few
people would be more superstitious than others but no one really took magic very
seriously. They were very very open to the inexplicable and knew that "magical"
things existed but would not have even
thought of incorporating their belief into their thinking or language. They were
sensitive to concepts that we associate with religion but there were no religions
and getting people to share a faith would probably have been impossible.

Ritual and ceremony were rampant and nowhere was it more rampant than in pyramid
building and in the way they saw off the dead king. Some of these rituals would
appear way over the top to modern sensibilities and would constitute evidence of
superstition except that these were activities rather than beliefs. They didn't
really bury the king's servants with him because they realkly thought they were needed
in his afterlife but because it was the way things were done. Heck, they were devoted
to him anyway, they might as well tag along.

The king lived forever sure enough but not because of magic or their religion
but because he became the pyramid, and his ka as well as peoples' ability to
remember him kept him alive in the minds of men.

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Djehuti
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^ You do realize that the pyramids were constructed for mystical i.e. MAGICAL purposes. See the thread here.

The pyramid was more than just a mere monument to commemorate the memory of the king, it was used to a magical device to enshrine and unite the king's spirit components and a gateway between the heavens and earth! All of this in its purpose is rather non-scientific but falls into the realm or religion and "superstition".

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Son of Ra
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Agreed 100% that the pyramids were build for magical use. They ALWAYS had a magical theme to them.
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zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
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quote:
Originally posted by sam p:
Modern people are all superstitious. Some are a little less superstitious than
others but it afflicts us all. I simply don't believe this applied to ancient
people. They were extremely ritualistic but they mostly believed only in what their
observational science learned.

I should add that the primary source for my belief that they lacked superstition
and for what they believed is the PT. While I strongly believe that my "interpretation"
is correct the fact is that this is just a snapshot of what the scientists who wrote
this thought about the rituals involved in
the ascension of the dead king. There are a great number of deductions and places
to go wrong. But this should be a far more accurate picture of their true thinking
than what is assumed by Egyptologists.

It's not impossible I'm wrong and I'm certainly wrong in part. The PT simply
don't support the orthodox assumptions. They say over and over that the pyramid
is not a tomb and this is just interpreted out of the understanding.

The supposedly more rational Greeks are also deemed
superstitions by some writers.

"Drugs were applied not because of a belief
that they had natural healing properties, but
following the tenets of primitive medicine,
because they had magical powers. The Greek word
pharmakon, usually translated as "drug: originally
designated a substance with magic powers. These
powers, however, did not need to be therapeutic,
(a pharmakon could be a poison or could turn humans
into animals) but were originally considered to be magic..

Supernatural medicine is characterized by a
multiplicity of powers that can heal and kill.
Primitive Greek medicine was no exception and
many Greek gods had healing functions: Apollo,
the first deity invoked in the Hippocratic oath;
Vulcan, worshiped in Lemnos, gave his healing
powers to terra lemmnia, Juno, Jupiter's wife
assisted women in childbirth.. In addition some
of the gods could cause sudden death: for example,
both Apollo and Diana could shoot lethal darts at
humans.."

(--A history of medicine by Plinio Priorescho 2004)

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Djehuti
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^ Indeed. Just as I stated, the synonym for 'witch' that the Greeks used was pharmakis. Many pharmakeia are actually noted in Greek legends and myths like Medea and even Helen of Troy was said to be one.

But I am more fascinated with the actual practices and rituals the Egyptians used. As I stated, their practices bear a striking resemblance to West African religions like Vodun.
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:

Here is a good site explaining Egyptian magic and the priests who utilized them:

http://www.experience-ancient-egypt.com/egyptian-magic.html

Heka - Egyptian Magic, The Will To Make Things Happen
Egyptian magic was part of religious and medical practices, as well as forms of vengeful voodoo. The term the ancient Egyptians used to describe magic is "heka".
Heka was believed to be a natural force that is present throughout the universe. It was used by the creator to create and animate the world.
It was also believed to be available for use by both Gods and mortals. Egyptians used it mainly as a means to ward off the forces of evil. Egyptian magic was also used for personal gain - to influence others by casting love spells for example, or even to cause harm to enemies.
However, almost all religious rituals were considered a type of magic. The symbolic meaning of the practices was thought to have influenced the Gods and the forces of nature.
Most rituals included the incantation of spells. Spells consisted of two parts - the words to be spoken and the actions to be followed. Words and names had to be pronounced correctly.

Priest or Magician?
Although the average Egyptian could practice magic, the formal practitioners were the priests.
The priesthood gave them access to magical texts and temple rituals which are off limits to others. It even gave them access to healing magic that was used when no medical cure was available.
The magical texts were studies by lector priests, who would then gain vast knowledge in performing spells for protection, rebirth and healing.
Whatever the case, priests had to be in a state of purity before performing any magic or religious ritual. They would bathe and adorn fresh clothing, abstain from sex, and avoid contact with menstruating women.

Medicine Or Magic?
The ancient Egyptians were plagued with many diseases and health hazards such as Nile parasites and respiratory problems from the sandy environment.
And although for an ancient culture its medical practices were quite advanced (with some techniques still in use today), they were at a loss with much of the ailments.
Some health problems were attributed to Godly wrath or harmful spells - and thus they would turn to magic for help.
The priests who were versed in incantations and trained medically would then be enlisted for help with many medical problems. The priests would then use a combination of medical practices and magical rituals to aid healing.
The spells and speeches were aimed at certain Gods or Goddesses, mainly those who were closely connected to medicine such as:
Thoth - the God associated with writing, including the writing of healing texts.
Sekhmet - the Goddess of the plague.
Serket - the scorpion Goddess whom you could pray to for help with bites and venom.
Some techniques the priests used were:
  • To act out a myth with the patient by reciting speeches and spells.
  • Using substances such as honey or dung to lure out or repel demons that possessed patients.
  • Inscribing protective and healing spells on statues and amulets.

Potions, Wands, Dolls And Dances
Whether for medical or non-medical purposes, there were other techniques used to perform Egyptian Magic:
  • Using magic wands to summon powerful beings or drawing protective circles.
  • Making loud noises by stamping the feet and shouting - performing a sort of magical dance with drums. This would help drive away evil spirits.
  • Using special bowls with written spells that transform water into a healing potion to be drunk or washed with.
  • Some potions were made with ingredients like animal blood.
  • Making wax figures of people to use like voodoo dolls. Either to harm or curse enemies.
If you think about it, the ancient Egyptian idea of what magic is (to make things happen) means that we still practice magic to a certain extent today. Of course most of us don't follow their techniques, but many of us believe in the power of faith and mind over matter.
Prayers and blessings could be considered a spiritual force to make things happen. And also the very old yet newly popular concept of "the law of attraction" (you attract what you think about the most) has become a widely accepted theory.
Ancient Egyptian Magic may have been quite superstitious in techniques, but the meaning behind it was not.

All of the above techniques: the amulets, the incantations, the dances by drumbeat, the drawing of magic circles with geometric symbols within, the elixirs made from the blood of sacrificial animals, and of course the execration dolls. All are found in many African religious traditions.
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