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alTakruri
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Presented below are portulan maps drawn up
by three Aragonese Jews, two were conversos.

1375 CE Abraham Cresques (father) Mappamundi Catalan Atlas gifted to Charles VI by Pedro IV
1389 CE Jafuda Cresques (son) reissue of the Mappamundi Catalan Atlas for Juan I
1413 CE Mercia de Viladestes (son's student) N Africa, Levant, Europe portolan

The contemporaneous copy of the original Jafuda
Cresques' lost Mappamundi portolan is essentially
the same as his father's. The art is touched up a
bit and the radiating compass lines (loxodromes)
are updated.

The de Viladestes portolano only followed the first two
panels of his teachers' entire Mappamundi Catalan Atlas.

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Tukuler
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Our attention is drawn to the western Sahel
where a veiled camel rider faces an enthroned
ruler named "Musse Melly" as spelled in the
Cresques text's Latin (i.e., Romance) language.
de Viladestes' map spells the name as Musa Meli.

 -

Both Cresques maps leave the camel rider unnamed.
The text near his head permits ethnic deduction.

"All this region is occupied by people who veil their mouths;
one only sees their eyes. They live in tents and have caravans
of camels. There are also beasts called Lemp from the skins of
which they make fine shields."


This man and his tent dwellers of the southwest
Sahara are veil wearers (muLithamun) aka people
of the veil (Kel Tagelmoust). Lemp is actually
lamt in "Berber" (Tamazight). Lamt supplies the
nisbe Lamtuna. They founded the Almoravides (al
~Murabitun)
in southern Mauritania.

de Viladestes makes the camel rider black as a
pot and names him Bubeder his variant of Bubacar
a popular West African version of the Arabic name
abu Bakr. He ruled the southern Saharan and Sahel
branch of al~Murabitun Sanhadja confederacy (i.e.,
Lemtuna, Juddala, etc.).

--------------------
I'm just another point of view. What's yours? Unpublished work © 2004 - 2023 YYT al~Takruri
Authentic Africana over race-serving ethnocentricisms, Afro, Euro, or whatever.

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Tukuler
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Musse Melly / Musa Meli is the Mandingo emperor
Mansa Gonga Musa of Mali. He's on the maps due
to his world famous hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca)
that inflated Egypt's gold currency for seven
years. His wealth in gold is intimated in the
fist sized solid gold nugget orb he displays
within his hand.

 -

The Cresques' text behind Mansa Musa's head reads

This black lord is called Musse Melly, lord of the blacks of
Gineua. So abundant is the gold which is found in his country
that he is the richest and most noble king in all the land.

This black lord is called Musse Melly, Lord of the Blacks of
Gineua. This king is the richest and most distinguished ruler
of the whole region on account of the great quantity of gold
found in his land.

Cresques gave a name to the gold rich Rex Melly
 -
who appeared on Angelino Dulcert's map of 1339
made not long after Gonga Musa died. The Dulcert
portolon shows North Africa, and the Levant (with
part of the Arabian peninsula), and Europe.

 -

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Tukuler
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Looks like Cresques borrowed many of Dulcerts' motifs.
Mercia de Viladestes of Cresques' school followed suit.

 -

Dulcerts' somewhat fanciful Atlas Mountains chain, the
ruler of Mali (but in white-face), geographic Teda with
camel, and Queen of Sheba all reappear in Cresques
and de Viladestes.

Cresques adds more rulers to North Africa. White
kings of Organa (Kano), Egypt, and Nubia. He
corrects the Mali potentate's colour and gives
him a name. In his Arabia:Seba, Cresques inserts
an unidentified Arabian at the juloos takbir stage
of salat (prayer) next to the Queen of Sheba.


de Viladestes doesn't name the praying Arabian
but the black as a pot complexion he rendered
may be an homage to Bilal ibn Rabah al-Habashi
the foremost muzzein (prayer caller) in all of
Islam. He also added a white Prester John for
Ethiopia.

-----------------

 -

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:


Both Cresques maps leave the camel rider unnamed.
The text near his head permits ethnic deduction.

"All this region is occupied by people who veil their mouths;
one only sees their eyes. They live in tents and have caravans
of camels. There are also beasts called Lemp from the skins of
which they make fine shields."



 -

comparatively the scarfing is may not be over the mouth in any of the above


quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:

de Viladestes makes the camel rider black as a
pot and names him Bubeder his variant of Bubacar
a popular West African version of the Arabic name
abu Bakr. He ruled the southern Saharan and Sahel
branch of al~Murabitun Sanhadja confederacy (i.e.,
Lemtuna, Juddala, etc.). [/QB]

This is why Tukular lacks credibility

He says Bubedar is a variant of Bubacar as if it's a fact.
That's a deception, a delberate attempt to miseducate.
Like Mike takes no responsibility. Unlike Clyde who stands behind theories he proposes with his real name, open to peer review

If he had said "I think Bubedar may be a variant of the word Bubacar" that would have been reasonable.
Insstead he tries to present it as fact and that's evil.


Suppose Bubedar means Bubacar and Bubacar means Bakr

Now we have to look at the context

The map was made in 1413 in fairly close proximity to Mansa Musa who lived 1280-1337.
it is based on a 1375 map.
So the original map was made 38 years after the death of Mansa Musa.

Now looking at the name Bakr, we have a bunch of them in Islamic history

see wikipedia " Abu Bakr (name ) "

Most famous was the 6-7thc Abu Bakr, companion to prophet Muhammad

three others>

Abu-Bakr Ibn-Umar (d. 1087), Almoravid ruler
Abu Bakr (mansa), 13th century Prince of the Mali Empire
Abubakari II, 14th century Prince of the Mali Empire

^^^ so we have two Abu Bakrs in close proximity of date to the Map maker and Mansa Musa.
Did Tukuler even tell you about that?
He thinks it is the 1st one which is farther away by centuries and other dynasties of Maghrebian rule

and the assumption that Bubedar even means Bubacar to begin with has no evidence

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Tukuler
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Don't know what happened to 'em but here're
the three maps missing from the opening post.

These maps should've been the first ones seen.


MAPS OF THE THREE JEWS

Presented below are portulan maps drawn up
by three Aragonese Jews, two were conversos.

1375 CE Abraham Cresques (father) Mappamundi Catalan Atlas gifted to Charles VI by Pedro IV
1389 CE Jafuda Cresques (son) reissue of the Mappamundi Catalan Atlas for Juan I
1413 CE Mercia de Viladestes (son's student) N Africa, Levant, Europe portolan

The contemporaneous copy of the original Jafuda
Cresques' lost Mappamundi portolan is essentially
the same as his father's. The art is touched up a
bit and the radiating compass lines (loxodromes)
are updated.

The de Viladestes portolano only followed the first two
panels of his teachers' entire Mappamundi Catalan Atlas
which besides nautical mapping also had two panels of
text.


--------------------------------------

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Tukuler
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Now continuing where I left off yesterday.


Another feature of Dulcert followed through
by the Cresques and on to de Viladestes is
a pass through the Atlas used by caravans.

 -
 -
 -

The slanted descriptive text between the pass
and Sijilmasa (the ringed site with four wavy
lines) in Cresques reads

"Through this place pass the merchants who travel
to the Land of the Blacks of Gineua which place
they call the Valley of Darba"

Darba is an European language equivalent
of Dra'a. Gineua is the Berber language
word Gnawa. Guinea derives from Gineua.

--------------------
I'm just another point of view. What's yours? Unpublished work © 2004 - 2023 YYT al~Takruri
Authentic Africana over race-serving ethnocentricisms, Afro, Euro, or whatever.

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Tukuler
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Two more images of the Cresques' first two panels father
Abraham's on top and son Jafuda's first panel at bottom.

 -

 -

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mena7
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Tukuler beautiful full trio mappamundis pictures. I see that the maps show picures of Africans and West Asians rulers but doesn't show pictures of European rulers. The Jews were international traders in the middle age they traveled to North Africa, West Africa, West Asia, India and Europe. Jew traded all the way in China in the middle age.

--------------------
mena

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the lioness,
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http://gallica.bnf.fr/Search?q=%201375%20Cresques

^^^ excerpt
more infor at link under "detailed information"

Abraham Cresques Atlas of charts

Description: This manuscript consists of twelve sheets of vellum laid seven wooden tables. Twelve plates in this atlas have been reproduced in facsimile by J. A. C. Buchon and J. Tastu in their Notice of an atlas in Catalan ( records and excerpts from manuscripts in the Royal Library and other libraries, Paris , 1843 , vol. XIV , Part 2 , p. 1 et seq. ) And Viscount Santarem in his Atlas ( Paris , 1842 and next year . ) , pl. XXX , XXXI and XXXII . Compare a memoir entitled : Descripcion of a Catalan principios del siglo Atlas XV , D. José Antonio Llobet y Memorias Vallllosera in the Academia de Buenas Letras de Barcelona, ​​1868 , vol. II , p. 187 et seq. The author of this paper has confused our atlas with map Mécia Viladestes , executed in 1413. On this last card and other manuscript maps kept in the geography section of the Department of Prints , see the APPENDIX of this catalog.

The date 1375 appears there several times. F. 2v -3 : East Asia from the ocean to India . Figure of the Last Judgment and the prince of Gog and Magog . Caspian mountains guarded by Alexander the Great. China Catayo . Taprobane Island and Illa Jana , India. F. 3v -4 : Asia from India to the Caspian Sea , the Persian Gulf , Arabia and Mecca. F. 4v -5: Middle East and Eastern Mediterranean from the Black Sea , Palestine, the Red Sea to Corsica and Sardinia. F. Lower - 5v contreplat : Western Mediterranean and Atlantic coast. Scandinavia, mountains of Bohemia . Corsica and Sardinia. British Isles , Tule , Atlantic Islands ( Canaries) .

The Tower of Babel is shown south of Baghdad , between the two rivers . Sovereign and other characters. Africa : a Berber on a camel , King Black Mussa Melly sitting on a throne, a Black guiding a camel, the king of Organa , a sovereign Nubia Prester John ) , the Sultan of Egypt sitting cross-legged ( solda of babillonia ) Asia: a sultan in Turkey ( TURCHIA ) , the Queen of Sheba , a Muslim pilgrim praying on his knees before Mecca, the King of Tabriz ( del Rey Tauris ) , a Mongol prince north of the Caspian Sea (identified Jani Beg , ruler of the Golden Horde , who died in 1357 ) , a caravan (men, camels , horses ) going east , the Magi heading west , a character guiding an elephant, the king Delhi ( lo rey delli ) , the king of Colombo in India (identified with the Sultan of Vijayanagar ) rey chabech identified with Kebek Khan , who reigned between 1309 and 1326, King Stephen (Steve ) facing Butifilis which would Thomas was buried , characters surrounding an old naked man in a sort of baptistry , two men near a mountain , a group of naked men facing cranes, a queen on the island of Women, the king of Taprobane , Holubeim , "the greatest prince of all the Tartars " (probably Kublai Khan, Marco Polo took his service), Alexander, the Antichrist, Gog and Magog, pearl fishers . Ships: Aragonese ship off Africa (?) . Tents in northwest Africa. Animals : elephants in Africa and on the island of Taprobane , camels in Africa and Asia, green birds along the Nile , cranes, "hawks and falcons " , fish, mermaid. Vegetation: non-existent, except in the representation of the Last Judgment and Gog and many Magog.

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the lioness,
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Muslim Nubia
1323 - 1403

After the installation of king Say al-Din Abdullah in 1312 and the conversion to islam of the Nubians in 1317 and after, the christian symbols of authority disappeared. We have no images of Nubian kings younger than 1323 from Nubian sources as the muslim rule that no living beings might be represented was strictly maintained in that time. Instead we have to rely on European sources to become an idea how they presented themselves. [1] These are provided by the portolans that were made by 14th and 15th century Catalan carthographers. Nubian kings are represented as seated rulers, dressed in sober burnouses and with turbans on their heads. The last king, represented on the portolan of Gabriel Vallseca of 1439, has a broadsword upright in his hand. This could mean that he was classified as a military governor or wali, in this case of the city of Dongola to which the effective control of the rulers from the House of Makuria was restricted in the end. This portolan, we may underline, was made in the time after 1412 when Nubia was controlled by the Awlad Kenz
The use of the crescent, the universal symbol of the state which, as we have seen was introduced in the time of the Ptolemees, was continued but all other symbols of authority of Christian design were abandoned. The portolans are documenting a blue flag with a white crescent, probably the flag of Dongola, and a yellow flag with a white crescent, probably the royal ensign. Also, a red shield with three yellow crescents, and a yellow shield with a white crescent are documented in the hands of Nubian rulers.


Nubia in the 15th Century


Very little is known about the rulers in Nubia in the 15th century. Nevertheless the 15th century portolans seem to follow the political developments quite closely. After king Nasr ad din had fled to Cairo in 1397 to beg assistance against his cousin, the King of Nubia is depicted with a yellow flag with a white crescent but also with a yellow shield with a white crescent. At the same time the yellow crescented flag waves over all the Mameluk Empire. The flag of the Sultan of Egypt is yellow with three white crescents. From this we may conclude that any autonomy of the Nubian king was over at the time.


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The same flag is documented by the Catalan Atlas of 1375, of which there is a copy in the Maritime Museum in Barcelona and in the Bibliotčque Nationale in Paris. [2] On this portolan there is also a portrait of the ruler of Nubia, dressed in green (or blue) with a white turban on his head and a sceptre in his right hand. In his left hand he keeps a shield with three golden crescents on a red field.
The three crescents classify him as a sovereign muslim sultan.


 -
Ruler of Nubia on the map of Mecia de Viladestes, 1413. [3]
Flag and arms: Or, a crescent Argent. Legend: REX DNVBIE. on his right hand: .........ciutat denubia.


 -
Ruler of Nubia on the map of Gabriel Vallseca, 1439
The ensign of Nubia is blue again and the ruler is depicted with a red turban on his head, a broadsword in his right hand and a blue shield in his left. Legend: REX DE NVBIA. Above his head the Egyptian ensign.

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Tukuler
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Excellent contributions!

The two non-map panels I mentined

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 -

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the lioness,
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wiki

The Kanem-Bornu Empire existed in modern Chad and Nigeria. It was known to the Arabian geographers as the Kanem Empire from the 9th century AD onward and lasted as the independent kingdom of Bornu until 1900. At its height it encompassed an area covering not only much of Chad, but also parts of modern southern Libya, eastern Niger, northeastern Nigeria and northern Cameroon. The history of the Empire in the longue durée is mainly known from the Royal Chronicle or Girgam discovered in 1851 by the German traveller Heinrich Barth.

Theories on the origin of Kanem

Kanem was located at the southern end of the trans-Saharan trade route between Tripoli and the region of Lake Chad. Besides its urban elite it included a confederation of nomadic peoples who spoke languages of the Teda–Daza (Toubou) group.

Founding by immigrants c. 600 BC
The origins of Kanem Empire are very unclear. Until today, historiographical debates oppose the followers of a foundation of Kanem-Bornu by populations from the ancient Near East and followers of a more local development. Some researches try to connect the creation of Kanem-Bornu with exodus from the collapsed Assyrian Empire c. 600 BC to the northeast of Lake Chad.[2] The intensity of scholar discussions around this theory proves that the question hasn't been solved yet, and we must be very cautious concerning early formation of Kanem-Bornu.

Founding by local Kanembu (Dugua) c. 700 AD
According to a more accepted theory, the empire of Kanem began forming around 700 AD under the nomadic Tebu-speaking Kanembu. The Kanembu were supposedly forced southwest towards the fertile lands around Lake Chad by political pressure and desiccation in their former range. The area already possessed independent, walled city-states belonging to the Sao culture. Under the leadership of the Duguwa dynasty, the Kanembu would eventually dominate the Sao, but not before adopting many of their customs.[4] War between the two continued up to the late 16th century.

_______________________________________________


http://www.hubert-herald.nl/Tchad.htm

History



In the middle ages the territory of today’s Tchad was intersected by caravan trails. Abesehr was a station on such a trail mentioned by Angelino Dulcerta on his portolan. Abesehr was situated at the southernmost border of the Islamic world. It was connected with Tripoli with a road through Sakha and Audjila in Libya along the modern border between Egypt an Libya. From there there was also a connection with Ethiopia. For a long time the region remained unknown in Europe. There were a few petty kingdoms in the region like Berdoa, Kanem-Bornu (later: Borku) and Zaneara. These petty kingdoms were famous for their hoards of gold and their magnificent regalia and ceremonies. A sixteenth-century emperor of Kanem-Bornu is said to have had horses with golden bits and hounds with golden chains. Basil Davidson writes about Kanem Bornu:



“Three main periods may be distinguished in Kanem history. There is the early period of formation when the Kanembu under their early chiefs were striving for leadership in the grassland country around Lake Chad. With the eleventh-century conversion of the Sefuwa to Islam, there comes an increasing involvement in the trade of the region, together with a succesful effort at establishing a single overall system of law and order throughout a wide region of trade and pasture. This is the period of the 'old empire' based on Kanem to the east of Lake Chad. It collapses in the fifteenth century with the rebellion of some of its subject peoples, notably the Bulala, and there follows a time of confusion while sovereignties are violently contested. This terminates with the rise of a new empire whose main seat of power has shifted west of the lake, and lies in the land of Bornu. In 1571, after many adventures, the greatest of all the kings or mais of Kanem-Bornu, Idris Alooma, at last comes into his rights and launches upon a grand career of political achievement that was contemporary with the reign of England's Queen Elizabeth. Idris Alooma unites the whole grassland country from the borders of Darfur in the east, and perhaps Darfur itself, to the kingdoms of eastern Hausaland; maintains diplomatic missions in Tripoli and Cairo; exchanges gifts with the Ottoman Sultan in Istanbul; and rules as the most succesful West African monarch of his day.” [1]

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Two versions of the arms of Organa after the Book of Knowledge. The left (from Ms. S.) follows the portolan of Angelino Dulcerto. The right (from Ms.N) is decribed in the text and is a variant of the Dulcerta arms. Later versions are the Dulcerta version

Kanem Bornu may be identical with mediaeval Organa, as mentioned on the map of Angelino Dulcerta (1339), by The Book of Knowledge (Libro de Conoscimiento) and some 14th and 15th century portolans. On the map of Angelino Dulcerta there is a picture of a city called Regnum de Organa from which a white flag is flown with a green palmtree. This flag is modified by The Book of Knowledge in which is written: The King of organa has for his device a white flag with a green palm tree and two keys. [2]

The Dulcerta version is repeated again by the Atlas Catalan, today in the Bibliothčque National in Paris. On this portolan a king is depicted, togeher with a city called Organa (ciutat Organa) from which a flag is flown, showing a green palmtree. The king himself, dressed in blue and with a white turban on his head, is sitting beside it , armed with a broadsword and a shield with a crescent between three bosses, all gold on a red field.

 -

The same part of North Africa is depicted on the map of Gabriel de Vallseca from 1439:
 -

On this portolan the flag with the palmtree has disappeared. The king is now sitting on a carpet and is dressed in green with a red turban. He is armed with a broadsword and a blue shield of fifteenth-century Moroccan shape, with four golden symbols. Above his head is a golden banner with a white crescent. [3]

Kanem-Bornu disappeared in the beginning of the 18th century.

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the lioness,
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^^^^

footnote[3]

map of Gabriel de Vallseca from 1439

Museu Marítim de Barcelona.
In North Africa there are six kings depicted:
1. Rex Bubeder;
2. Rex Musameli;
3. Rex Organa;
4. Rex Dnubie;
5. Lo Solda;
6. Desgreliona (?).
These kings could have been the rulers of
Mali, Songhai, Kanem-Bornu, Nubia,
Egypt en Ethiopia.

http://www.hubert-herald.nl/Tchad.htm

(bottom of page)

__________________________________

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Gabriel_Vallseca._Museo_Mar%C3%ADtimo%2C_Barcelona.1439.jpg

^^^ note assorted 4 camel riders


6 kings (one at far right in different section)
2 more upside down at top
sheet or tent cloth behind each one

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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^^

footnote[3]

map of Gabriel de Vallseca from 1439

Museu Marítim de Barcelona.
In North Africa there are six kings depicted:
1. Rex Bubeder;
2. Rex Musameli;
3. Rex Organa;
4. Rex Dnubie;
5. Lo Solda;
6. Desgreliona (?).
These kings could have been the rulers of
Mali, Songhai, Kanem-Bornu, Nubia,
Egypt en Ethiopia.

1. Rex Bubeder; ____ Mali -- no
2. Rex Musameli; ___ Songhai -- no
3. Rex Organa; _____ Kanem-Bornu -- maybe
4. Rex Dnubie; _____ Nubia -- yes
5. Lo Solda; _______ Egypt -- yes Egypt's sultan
6. Desgreliona _____ Ethiopia -- don't know


Despite any intentions that webmaster is not
conversant on much of medieval African history.

1 is a Tamazight. Imazighen never ruled Mali.
2 Musa of Mali is obviously emperor of Mali.
3 Considering placement I think Kano is more likely.
4 No arguing d'Nubia is obviously Nubia
5 Solda is a variant of sultan and he's placed in Egypt.
6 Been trying to find out exactly what greliona means
but the figure does represent the mythical
Prester John linked with Christian Ethiopia
not the Muslims.


The thing with Rex Organa is that Organa is a
personal name not a place name as in Rex Musa
Meli and Rex Bubeder.

In Rex d Nubia we can see d as in de meaning of,
hence Ruler of Nubia.

Lo Solda presents an issue as Egypt's sovereign
though because the text under him reads "solda d
babalonia." It's thought this Babylon means Cairo.
Anyway, in a later map he's given as one Magnus
Soldanus Sultan of Babylon ruler of Egypt and the
Holy Land

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the lioness,
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 -

comment on this please

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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

 -

comment on this please

.

Kel taGelmoust have various stages of face veiling,
from eyes only visible
to only the chin covered
all pending social impetus.

Also well known to Africanists and Africans
native to the subject region is the fact of
non-Tamazight Sahelians who do likewise
wear turbans and mufflers but ride horses
and live in houses in permanent settlements.

It's weighing all the elements that reveal
Premise 1 - a veiled camel rider
Premise 2 - from tent dwellers
Premise 3 - in southern Mauritania, southwestern Sahara
Conclusion - therefore, is of a Tamazight ethny.


No one has to accept this.
My job is not to convince anyone.
My job is to present what's known
and to extrapolate viable insights
based on what's known.

I do hope that that is recognized by
most even if not agreed with by all.

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the lioness,
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assuming the veiled camel rider is intendedby Viladestes of 1413
to be Abu-Bakr Ibn-Umar (d. 1087)
then when looking at the light skinned camel rider in the predecessor map by 1375 Abraham Cresques there are questions that come up

optional explanations

1) Abraham Cresques did not intend the camel rider to be a specific person (accordingly the large Rex Bubeder lettering is not in his map). (I'm not sure if he has indicated "rex Bubeder" somewhere else
But Viladestes decided he wanted the camel rider to be a specific person Abu-Bakr Ibn-Umar so he changed ithe camel rider accordingly from what had been a generic Saharan, berber or Arab to Rex Bubeder for the sake of argument Bubecer - Abu Bakr


OR

2) Abraham Cresques intended the camel rider to be Abu-Bakr
Ibn-Umar all along
but Viladestes thought he should have more kingly status like the other kings so he added the large lettered title.


Yet oddly the figure is riding a camel, not sitting like the other kings, no insignia or specific symbolic reference to Abu bakr

Gabriel de Vallseca map of 1439 seems oblivious to Viladestes' version, possibly it he was less informed

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Tukuler
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I took a look at Palmer's The Bornu Sahara
and Sudan
for references to the Mallorca
cartographers.

He's part of the Organa = Kanem consensus.

The mappamundi and portolan of Dulcert and
the three Jews use Organa as a place name
except the one instance of Rex Organa. It's
not a personal name as I thought.

But more importantly Palmer does identify
"Greliona" as the Graciona of Franciscan
record i.e., Agara Sion the "State of Zion"
meaning Christian Ethiopia home of the
mythical Prester John pictured in the de
Viladestes as Desgreciona (far right bottom).

 -

Wiki File:Palolus river (Senegal-Niger) in 1413
Mecia de Viladestes map.jpg for oversize image.

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the lioness,
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 -

I have had recent correspondance on a whole list of questions I had pertaining to the camel riding figure here.
The person addressed each politely in high detail.
From what he said my current opinion is that Abu-Bakr Ibn-Umar the Almoravid ruler who had died over 300 years prior to the map maker is nevertheless
a good guess as to who that camel rider is, not 100% certain but good.
This person, who seemed expert, said that what looks like a "D" could have been an overflow of ink on a "C" and was "Bubecer", that meaning Bakr.

The word "Bubeder" I had noticed, is in many 18th German books, meaning "boy".
It appears in them as one word
and in other books "Bube der, two words meaning the same thing. "Bube- boy
It's an odd coinindence apprantly a completely unrelated word.

"Rex Bubeder" had been noted in several crediblie historical books that mention the Viladestes and they don't mention "Bubecer"
However for other reasons ther is good possibilty that "Bubecer" was intended and that the figure is intended to be the Almoravid Abu Bakr of the 11th c rather than Malian Abu Bakrs of the 13/14th c.
And there are other credible books on the Viladestes map which do speculate Abu Bakr of the 11th c, "Bubecer"

Massufa appears (in Catalan "they are called Mosifes") in the inscription Vildestes writes. The last part Viladestes adds (which is not in Cresques) is that they are called "Mosifes". Mosifes = Massufa, one of the tribes of the Almoravids (the Massufa were the branch of the Almoravids that conquered and ruled Majorca, Viladestes's home, in the 11th-12th C., which might explain why he added that note - Mosifes may have been the local Majorcan name for them)

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Djehuti
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Excellent thread Tukuler. I've always seen these maps in regards to Medieval history but I never bothered to look into the background as to its makers or anymore detail except King Musa Mali.

By the way, don't even bother with the lyinass troll's complaints.

She nitpicks insignificant details like the way the camel rider wears his veil as if its proof of something significant, perhaps her claim that the Moors were not black. LOL [Big Grin]

Ironically not only is the camel rider shown as white but so too is the Ethiopian king Prester John and the Queen of Sheba.
quote:
Originally posted by the lyinass twit:

This is why Tukular lacks credibility

He says Bubedar is a variant of Bubacar as if it's a fact.
That's a deception, a delberate attempt to miseducate.
Like Mike takes no responsibility. Unlike Clyde who stands behind theories he proposes with his real name, open to peer review

If he had said "I think Bubedar may be a variant of the word Bubacar" that would have been reasonable.
Insstead he tries to present it as fact and that's evil.

B|tch, please! Tukuler has more credibility in one word he posts than entire paragraphs or threads that you post all the time. All you do is lie via distortion or obfuscation of data in support of your Euronut bias and now you question what a veteran poster like Tukuler says. The only one doing evil here is YOU, twit! [Embarrassed]
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:

By the way, don't even bother with the lyinass troll's complaints.


I never bothered to look into the background as to its makers or anymore detail except King Musa Mali.



 -


quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
B|tch, please!

^^^attempt at being "urban"
gold star for cheerleader licking Tukular's ball sack

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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:


I have had recent correspondence ...

[

No need to crosspost.

If people want to read
the other thread they
can go there, where,
by the way, I reply
to the crosspost.

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=008775&p=2#000072

PS [Frown] doesn't matter who started it
take the ad hominem elsewhere. TL
please respect this thread as you
do your highly regarded Anonymous.
Thank you all. [Smile]

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Tukuler
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Information forgotten after only 9 months.

SMH

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Tukuler
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 -
 -

Courtesy of the British Museum
http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/themes/hajj/the_journey/routes/the_african_route/west_africa.aspx

Portion of Jacobus Russus, 1525 map depicting Musa
quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
 -


Oh, did I forget?

Salif Keita

Keita clan

Keita Dynasty

Mansa Musa Keita I


Here we have a Malien of the clan of the mansas
looking for all the world like his cornrow headed
ancestor on that 16th century atlas.

quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
Cheeze us.

Like Musa posed for either.

Anyway Mr Mali himself -- Salif Keita
 - .


 -
 -
A racist Eurocentric white boy said
"This don't look like anything like a native Mali."





--------------------
I'm just another point of view. What's yours? Unpublished work © 2004 - 2023 YYT al~Takruri
Authentic Africana over race-serving ethnocentricisms, Afro, Euro, or whatever.

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mena7
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Tukuler nice thread and very nice map of Jacobus Russus. What a coincidence The Malian King in the map really looks like the great Malian singer Salif Keita.

--------------------
mena

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Tukuler
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restored rescinded images

--------------------
I'm just another point of view. What's yours? Unpublished work © 2004 - 2023 YYT al~Takruri
Authentic Africana over race-serving ethnocentricisms, Afro, Euro, or whatever.

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