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Author Topic: Hidden History of Islam, Islam a sect of Christianity
the lioness,
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The Hidden Origins of Islam: New Research into Its
Early History
2009
by Karl-Heinz Ohlig (Editor) , Gerd-R Puin (Editor)

http://www.amazon.com/The-Hidden-Origins-Islam-Research/dp/1591026342/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

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publisher's description

Despite Muhammad's exalted place in Islam, even today there is still surpisingly little actually known about this shadowy figure and the origins of the Qur'an because of an astounding lack of verifiable biographical material. Furthermore, most of the existing biographical traditions that can be used to substantiate the life of Muhammad date to nearly two centuries after his death, a time when a powerful, expansive, and idealized empire had become synonymous with his name and vision - thus resulting in an exaggerated and often artificial characterization of the prophetic figure coupled with many questionable interpretations of the holy book of Islam.

On the basis of datable and localizable artifacts from the seventh and eighth centuries of the Christian era, many of the historical developments, misconceptions, and fallacies of Islam can now be seen in a different light. Excavated coins that predate Islam and the old inscription in the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem utilize symbols used in a documented Syrian Arabic theology - a theology with Christian roots.

Interpreting traditional contexts of historical evidence and rereading passages of the Qur'an, the researchers in this thought-provoking volume unveil a surprising - and highly unconventional - picture of the very foundations of Islamic religious history.
_________________________________________________

wiki

Karl-Heinz Ohlig
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Karl-Heinz Ohlig ( Born 1938 in Koblenz) is a German professor of Religious Studies and the History of Christianity at the University of Saarland, Germany.

He is the co-editor with Gerd Rudiger Puin of the book Die dunklen Anfänge. Neue Forschungen zur Entstehung und frühen Geschichte des Islam ["The Hidden Origins of Islam: New Research Into Its Early History" (Hans Schiller Verlag, 2005/Prometheus Books 2008)], which argues that Islam was not originally conceived as a distinct religion.

Ohlig and Puin's thesis propounds that according to the evidence of Arab coinage, and the inscription in the Dome of the Rock in the late 7th century, with the letters MHMT and the term Muhammad meaning "the revered" or "the praiseworthy" and the Dome's bearing Christian symbols such as crosses, it suggests that the term Muhammad was a Christian honorific title referring to Jesus, as in the hymn of the mass ("praise be to he that comes...")[1]
___________________________________________________________

an amazon user review:

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This review is from: The Hidden Origins of Islam: New Research into Its Early History (Hardcover)
The final result of all this must be left to professional historians, yet some of the facts will simply not go away. Following the historic method of Mommsen, the scholars gathered here present some facts that will make your head hurt.

Let me first establish the contrast between "traditional Islamic history" and the facts as they appear on the ground.

In "traditional Islamic history," the Khalif Mu'awiyya fought big battles for Islam, and so did his three followers: Abd-el Malik and the rest.

Unfortunately, "traditional Islamic history" appears to be a special kind of fiction, because the coins and inscriptions found on the ground make it quite obvious that Mu'awiyya and his three successors had never heard of Muhammad, the Koran, Islam, or the word "Khalif" = "ruler."

What is even worse, they were all Christians!

Of course, the history of Arab Christianity -- although quite long and interesting -- is not something that modern Muslims like to deal with. On the contrary, as in Egypt, they have implemented stringent controls over education, which forbid the teaching of pre-Islamic Egyptian history, which to my mind was much more interesting than the "post-Islamic" history.

As a result of this explosive book, we have to face the possibility that Muhammad never existed, that the Koran was pasted together from Syric-Aramaic Christian sources, and that the whole thing was a bundle of bushwah created to defend the now "Islamic" empire.

I don't think you need me to tell you that Muslims will not be "happy" about this book. And I am not qualified to see where all this will go (not being an expert in the partitive gerundial in Syriac.)

I would also warn you that this book is Hard. Probably not for beginners.

One interesting fact: the collapse of the Sassanian dynasty led to the collapse of Zoroastrianism in Iran. The living religions were Nestorian Christianity and a lot of Buddhism in Eastern Iran.


_____________________________________________________________

http://www.amazon.com/Early-Islam-Critical-Reconstruction-Contemporary/dp/161614825X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1387234358&sr=1-1


Early Islam: A Critical Reconstruction Based on Contemporary Sources Hardcover Nov 2013
by Karl-Heinz Ohlig (Editor)

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This successor volume to The Hidden Origins of Islam (edited by Karl-Heinz Ohlig and Gerd-R. Puin) continues the pioneering research begun in the first volume into the earliest development of Islam. Using coins, commemorative building inscriptions, and a rigorous linguistic analysis of the Koran along with Persian and Christian literature from the seventh and eighth centuries--when Islam was in its formative stages--five expert contributors attempt a reconstruction of this critical time period.

Despite the scholarly nature of their work, the implications of their discoveries are startling:


• Islam originally emerged as a sect of Christianity.
• Its central theological tenets were influenced by a pre-Nicean, Syrian Christianity.
Aramaic, the common language throughout the Near East for many centuries and the language of Syrian Christianity, significantly influenced the Arabic script and vocabulary used in the Koran.
• Finally, it was not until the end of the eighth and ninth centuries that Islam formed as a separate religion, and the Koran underwent a period of historical development of at least 200 years.
Controversial and highly intriguing, this critical historical analysis reveals the beginning of Islam in a completely new light.

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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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Let's not forget Christianity a sect of Judaism.

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Christian Origins: An Account of the Setting and Character of the Most Important Messianic Sect of Judaism 2002
by Karl-Heinz Ohlig (Editor) , Gerd-R Puin (Editor)

http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Origins-Christopher-Rowland/dp/0281053669

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publisher's description

"Dr Rowland has written a splendid book. He has put together in manageable space a well-read and well-argued account of the beginnings of the Christian movement: a third of it on the Judaism of the first century, a third on Jesus, and a third on Paul and the development from messianic sect to Christian religion. If you are a student, here are the outlines of your New Testament essays, conveniently cut up into three- and four-page sections. If you are a clergyman or teacher, here are the results of all the years of scholarship since you graduated. If you are a professional, here are many insights and nuances which you can weigh with profit." Michael Goulder, Theology

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mena7
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Great thread Lioness on book showing the Christian origin of Islam. Conspiracies are not only in politics the real conspiracies are in world history and religion. We see world monarchs and high priests burning libraries and books to destroyed knowledge. We see black population turning white. we see thousand years old spiritual and allegorical religion historicized by Emperor.

I remember typezeist recommending the book The Lost Year of Christianity by Philip Jenkins. The author revealed that Islam came out of Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Islam Mosque are Byzantine Church without icon. Moslem prostration, fasting, pulpit, veil women are similar to Eastern Christian orthodox Churches practices. The Muslim Koran come from the Christian Syriac liturgic book. In the first centuries of Islam the muslim scholars, managers and diplomats were Eastern Christians, Coptic Christians and Persians.

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The book Did Muhammad Exist reveal that the name Mohammed was a title for Jesus meaning worthy one. Many coins were find in West Asia with the picture of a man with a cross in one side and the name Muhammad in the other side.

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German University Proffessor of Islamic theology Mohammad Sven Kalisch created a great controversy when he stated the Prophet Muhammad didn't exist.

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http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/6329

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122669909279629451

The Jesuit are a very powerful and knowledgeable Catholic order. One rebel Jesuit Priest Alberto Rivera revealed to the world the Papacy or Roman Church created Islam. Alberto Rivera was poisoned.

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http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data/religion_cults/news.php?q=1281275364

Books that show the African/Egyptian origin of Christianity.

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Christianity Before Christ by John J Jackson.

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The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya

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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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The common origin of all Abrahamic religions is self-evident.
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the lioness,
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mena some of those books are by credible scholars some are not

You have a tendancy to believe any conspiracy

I could make something up write a book and you would probably belive it instantly. Am I right ?

This guy Alberto Rivera was a fundamentalist Christian, not a scholar, and a lot of what he says is not credible

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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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I don't understand. Why make a conspiracy of something that is self-evident? Maybe their theories are wrong, but all Abramamic religions are all sister religions, which disagree with each others about the place of Jesus, Mohammed, Luther, Bakr, etc and related books.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
I don't understand. Why make a conspiracy of something that is self-evident? Maybe some of their theories are wrong, but all Abramamic religions are all sister religions, which disagree with each others about the place of Jesus, Mohammed, Luther, Bakr, etc and related books.

The book I posted "Hidden History of Islam" is credible scholarship.

However what you see as self evident is disputed by Islamic scholars.
We are talking about origins not just "sister religions", talking about one thing coming out of another, Muslims dispute this

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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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Yes, you're right. They disagree with each other about their relationships to each others. But they also agree about their common roots. Their common origin. They are all descendants of Abraham and related to Judaism (who are still waiting for their messiah/prophet, rejecting Jesus and Mohammed as the one).
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
Yes, you're right. They disagree with each other about their relationships to each others. But they also agree about their common roots. Their common origin. They are all descendants of Abramam and related to Judaism (who are still waiting their messiah/prophet, rejecting Jesus and Mohammed as the one).

watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5F0y96BQqo

The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran
ook by Christoph Luxenberg.

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This book is considered a controversial work, triggering a debate about the history, linguistic origins and correct interpretation of the Qur'an. It has received much coverage in the mainstream media.[1]

The book argues that the Qur'an at its inception was drawn from Christian Syro-Aramaic texts, in order to evangelize the Arabs in the early 8th century.

Richard Kroes summarises the argument of the book as follows:

According to Luxenberg, the Qur'an was not written in classical Arabic but in a mixed Arabic-Syriac language, the traders' language of Mecca and it was based on Christian liturgical texts. When the final text of the Qur'an was codified, those working on it did not understand the original sense and meaning of this hybrid trading language any more, and they forcefully and randomly turned it into classical Arabic. This gave rise to a lot of misinterpretations. Something like this can only have happened if there was a gap in the oral transmission of the Qur'anic text. That idea is in serious disagreement with the views of both traditional Muslims and western scholars of Islam.


The work advances the thesis that critical sections of the Qur'an have been misread by generations of readers and Muslim and Western scholars, who consider classical Arabic as the language of the Qur'an. Luxenberg's analysis suggests that the prevalent Syro-Aramaic language up to the 7th century formed a stronger etymological basis for its meaning.[4][5]

A notable trait of early written Arabic was that it lacked vowel signs and diacritic points which would later distinguish e.g. B, T, N, Y ب ت ن ي (Defective script), and thus was prone to misinterpretation. The diacritical points were added around the turn of the eighth century on orders of Al-Hajjaj bin Yousef, governor of Iraq (694–714).

Luxenberg remarks that the Qur'an contains much ambiguous and even inexplicable language. He asserts that even Muslim scholars find some passages difficult to parse and have written reams of Quranic commentary attempting to explain these passages. However, the assumption behind their endeavours has always been, according to him, that any difficult passage is true, meaningful, and pure Arabic, and that it can be deciphered with the tools of traditional Muslim scholarship. Luxenberg accuses Western academic scholars of the Qur'an of taking a timid and imitative approach, relying too heavily on the biased work of Muslim scholars.

The book's thesis is that the Qur'an was not originally written exclusively in Arabic but in a mixture with Syriac, the dominant spoken and written language in the Arabian peninsula through the 8th century.

“ What is meant by Syro-Aramaic (actually Syriac) is the branch of Aramaic in the Near East originally spoken in Edessa and the surrounding area in Northwest Mesopotamia and predominant as a written language from Christianization to the origin of the Koran. For more than a millennium Aramaic was the lingua franca in the entire Middle Eastern region before being gradually displaced by Arabic beginning in the 7th century.[6] ”
Luxenberg argues that scholars must start afresh, ignore the old Islamic commentaries, and use only the latest in linguistic and historical methods. Hence, if a particular Quranic word or phrase seems meaningless in Arabic, or can be given meaning only by tortured conjectures, it makes sense – he argues – to look to the Aramaic and Syriac languages as well as Arabic.

Luxenberg also argues that the Qur'an is based on earlier texts, namely Syriac lectionaries used in the Christian churches of Syria, and that it was the work of several generations who adapted these texts into the Qur'an we know today

Qur'an[edit]
According to Luxenberg the word "al-qur'an" is derived from the Aramaic word "qeryan-a" meaning ‘lectionary’ a book of liturgical readings. This book was a Syro-Aramaic lectionary, with hymns and Biblical extracts, created for use in Christian services. This Arabic lectionary is a trace of the pre-Islamic, Christian past of certain Arab communities, who were amongst the first Christians. It was not meant to start a new religion, but a legacy of an older one.[10] It is accepted by scholars and orientalists internationally that the word "qur'an" (without the article l-) is derived from the Arabic root word "qara'a", which means reading. Luxenberg's Aramaic "qeryan" (without the article -a) is also derived from the same, shared Semitic root Q-R-' "reading", as is obvious from the translation "lectionary", "a text for reading".

Huri[edit]
The word huri, universally interpreted by scholars as white-eyed virgins (who will serve the faithful in Paradise; Qur'an 44:54, 52:20, 55:72, 56:22) means, according to Luxenberg, white grapes. He says that many Christian descriptions of Paradise describe it as abounding in pure white grapes. This sparked much joking in the Western press; suicide bombers would be expecting beautiful women and getting grapes.[11]

Khatam[edit]
The passage in Sura 33 that has usually been translated as "seal of the prophets" means, according to Luxenberg, "witness". By this reading, Muhammad is not the last of the prophets, but only a witness to those prophets who came before him.

Aya analysis[edit]

The Quranic passage in Sura 24 (al-núr, "The Light"), verse 31, reads in Arabic "wa-l-yaDribna bi-KHumuri-hinna ʿalâ juyûbi-hinna", and is traditionally translated as saying that women "should draw their veils over their bosoms" (Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation, The Holy Qur'an: Text, Translation and Commentary).[1] It has been interpreted as command for women to cover themselves, and is used in support of hijab. In Luxenberg's Syro-Aramaic reading, the verse instead commands women to "snap their belts around their waists." Luxenberg argues that this is a much more plausible reading than the Arabic one. The belt was a sign of chastity in the Christian world. Also, Jesus puts on an apron before he washes the disciples' feet at the last supper.[12]

Academic objections[edit]

Luxenberg’s argument that the Qur’an has Syro-Aramaic origins has attracted debates in the academic community and popular media. Scholarly reviews have been critical of his book.[7][13][14][15]

The Qur'an is "the translation of a Syriac text," is how Angelika Neuwirth, a German scholar of Islam, describes Luxenberg's thesis – "The general thesis underlying his entire book thus is that the Qur'an is a corpus of translations and paraphrases of original Syriac texts recited in church services as elements of a lectionary." She considers it as "an extremely pretentious hypothesis which is unfortunately relying on rather modest foundations." Neuwirth points out that Luxenberg doesn't consider the previous work in Qur'an studies, but "limits himself to a very mechanistic, positivist linguistic method without caring for theoretical considerations developed in modern linguistics."[14]

Richard Kroes describes him as "unaware of much of the other literature on the subject" and that "quite a few of his theories are doubtful and motivated too much by a Christian apologetic agenda."[3]

François de Blois, in the Journal of Qur'anic Studies, points to grammatical mistakes in Luxenberg's book:[3] "His grasp of Syriac is limited to knowledge of dictionaries and in his Arabic he makes mistakes that are typical for the Arabs of the Middle East."[3][13] He describes his book as "not a work of scholarship but of dilettantism."[13]

Patricia Crone, professor of Islamic history at the Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton, refers to Luxenberg's work as "open to so many scholarly objections" and "notably amateurism".[16]

Dr. Walid Saleh describes Luxenberg's method as "so idiosyncratic, so inconsistent, that it is simply impossible to keep his line of argument straight."[7] He adds that according to Luxenberg, for the last two hundred years, Western scholars "have totally misread the Qur'ān" and that, ad hominem, no one can understand the Qur'an as "Only he can fret out for us the Syrian skeleton of this text."[7] Summing up his assessment of Luxenberg's method, he states:

The first fundamental premise of his approach, that the Qur'ān is a Syriac text, is the easiest to refute on linguistic evidence. Nothing in the Qur'ān is Syriac, even the Syriac borrowed terms are Arabic, in so far as they now Arabized and used inside an Arabic linguistic medium. Luxenberg is pushing the etymological fallacy to its natural conclusion. The Qur'ān not only is borrowing words according to Luxenberg, it is speaking a gibberish language.[7]

Islamic writers mention the following issues with Luxenberg's hypothesis; "The geographical spread of pre-Islamic Arabic inscriptions range from Zebed from the Syriac speaking heartland in the north to Mada'in Salih in the south and from Abu Darag (Egypt) in the West to Sakakah in the East. Syrian Aramaic or the Syriac was the language which Luxenberg says the Qur'an was partially written in. The bulk of the pre-Islamic Syriac inscriptions are confined to the Edessa region in modern south Turkey. It is certainly a long way from the hijaz region and in particular Makkah! The pre-Islamic Syriac inscriptions south of Damascus are almost non-existent (an exception being the one at Jabal Usays, south east of Damascus), except those written by travellers or pilgrims. ... Apart from Luxenberg's lack of understanding regarding the development of Syriac and Arabic orthographies, grammars and lexicographies, his work makes no attempt to anchor his arguments in any believable historical context, as we have already seen earlier. It is not clear who these Christians of pre-Islamic Makkah were who used the alleged Qur'anic aramäische-arabische Mischsprache and how these writings produced the Arabic Qur'an. What kind of time scales were involved in the transformation? What were their religious beliefs and what made them change their(!) religion into Islam?"[17]

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Djehuti
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Islam emerged as a cult based on various religions but chiefly Judaism and Christianity. There are even roots that go back to an early religion called 'Hanif' by the Arabs which is said to be the pre-Judaeic religion of Abraham. According to sources, members of Muhammad's family were Hanifs. Speaking of which, the problem is there are virtually NO 1st hand account records about Muhammad himself and most records come from 5th or higher account records to the point of hearsay. That's why there are even some scholars who even question the existence of Muhammad himself. But as Dana once cited, there are sources that describe the earliest Muslim armies as carrying effigies of a man whom they say represent Muhammad so without evidence, who knows.

The book Lioness cites by Karl-Heinz Ohlig look very interesting though. It reminds me of this book on the origins of Christianity by Reza Aslan.

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