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Author Topic: Berbera -SOMALIA -do NA berbers derive from Somalians?
the lioness,
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do NA berbers derive from Somalians
or was it just the same name used in two places?


______________________________BERBERA, city in Somalia____________________________


VIDEO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3unjc8iULQ

"I then went from Aden by sea, and after four days came to the city of Zayla. This is a settlement, of the Berbers a people of Sudan, of the Shafia sect. Their country is a desert of two months extent; the first part is termed Zayla, the last Makdashu..." Ibn Battuta 14th century (Richard F. Burton, First Footsteps in East Africa , Or an Exploration of Harar)


Berbera has a population of around 232,500 residents. It is mainly inhabited by people from the Somali ethnic group, with the Isse Muuse Habar Awal sub-clan of the Isaaq well represented

Barbara, also referred to as Bilad al-Barbar (Land of the Berbers), was an ancient region on the northern coast of the Somalia. The area was inhabited by the Eastern Baribah or Barbaroi (Berbers), as the ancestors of the Somalis were referred to by medieval Arab and ancient Greek geographers, respectively.

While mainland Somalia was embroiled two decades of civil strife, its autonomous northern breakaway enclave of Somaliland was largely peaceful. But with no resource, skilled labour force and largely unproductive land, the region's only source of domestic finance is the port of Berbera and its strategic link to the gulf of Eden. The Berbera port has become the single most productive utility of the entire enclave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QOVH5xy8Vg


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Turkish ruins, Berbera
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http://sayidka.blogspot.com/2006/01/land-of-gods-brief-study-of-somali.html


In all probability, the Red Sea Port city of Berbera was Barbara, the most important town in Barbaria. Perhaps it would be of interest to note here that the ancient Egyptian Hieroglyph was also called BARBA. Incidentally, BARBA in Somali meant ‘teach to write’ and was still in use in the old quarter of Mogadishu. BAR in Somali means ‘teach’ and BA was the first letter of the Hieroglyph as well as the Somali orthography. While the word Barbarism and Barbaric found its way into some European dictionaries in their correct spelling, they obviously referred to the hostile and ‘savage’ conduct of the North Africans who then were the only Barbars in contact with Europe.

________________________________________________

http://books.google.com/books?id=c788wWR_bLwC&pg=PA334&dq=barbaria%22&hl=e

Late Antiquity: A Guide to the Postclassical World
edited by Glen Warren Bowersock

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 -


The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea:
Travel and Trade in the Indian Ocean by a Merchant of the First Century


1. Of the designated ports on the Erythraean Sea, and the market-towns around it, the first is the Egyptian port of Mussel Harbor. To those sailing down from that place, on the right hand, after eighteen hundred stadia, there is Berenice. The harbors of both are at the boundary of Egypt, and are bays opening from the Erythraean Sea.

2. On the right-hand coast next below Berenice is the country of the Berbers. Along the shore are the Fish-Eaters, living in scattered caves in the narrow valleys. Further inland are the Berbers, and beyond them the Wild-flesh-Eaters and Calf-Eaters, each tribe governed by its chief; and behind them, further inland, in the country towards the west, there lies a city called Meroe.


_________________________________

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wiki:


Berbera (Somali: Barbara, Arabic: بربرة‎) is a city in the northwestern Berbera District of Somalia. It is situated in the Woqooyi Galbeed province in the autonomous Somaliland region of Somalia.

In antiquity, Berbera was part of a chain of commercial port cities along the Somali seaboard. It later served as the capital of the British Somaliland protectorate from 1884 to 1941, when it was replaced by Hargeisa. In 1960, the British Somaliland protectorate gained independence as the State of Somaliland and united as scheduled five days later with the Trust Territory of Somalia (the former Italian Somaliland) to form the Somali Republic.[2][3] Located strategically on the oil route, the city has a deep seaport, which serves as the region's main commercial harbor.

Berbera preserves the ancient name of the coast along the southern shore of the Gulf of Aden. It is thought to be the city Malao described as 800 stadia beyond the city of the Avalites, described in the eighth chapter of the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, which was written by a Greek merchant in the first century CE. In the Periplus it is described as


an open roadstead, sheltered by a spit running out from the east. Here the natives are more peaceable. There are imported into this place the things already mentioned, and many tunics, cloaks from Arsinoe, dressed and dyed; drinking-cups, sheets of soft copper in small quantity, iron, and gold and silver coin, not much. There are exported from these places myrrh, a little frankincense, (that known as far-side), the harder cinnamon, duaca, Indian copal and macir, which are imported into Arabia; and slaves, but rarely.



Duan Chengshi, a Chinese Tang Dynasty scholar, described in his written work of 863 CE the slave trade, ivory trade, and ambergris trade of Bobali, which is also thought to be Berbera (see Maritime section of Tang Dynasty for more). The city was also later mentioned by the Islamic traveller Ibn Sa'id as well as Ibn Batutta in the thirteenth century

However, as I.M. Lewis notes, "beyond the fact that during the period of Portuguese domination in the Red Sea the town was sacked in 1518 by Antonio de Saldanha, little of its history is known before the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries."[6] In 1546, the Ottoman Empire occupied the northwestern regions of Somalia including Berbera. It also made Zeila the regional capital due to the latter's strategic location on the Red Sea.

One certainty about Berbera over the following centuries was that it was the site of an annual fair, held between October and April, which Mordechai Abir describes as "among the most important commercial events of the east coast of Africa."[7] The major Somali clan of Isaaq in Somalia, caravans from Harar and the Hawd, and Banyan merchants from Porbandar, Mangalore and Mumbai gathered to trade. All of this was kept secret from European merchants, writes Abir: "Banyan and Arab merchants who were concerned with the trade of this fair closely guarded all information which might have helped new competitors; and actually through the machinations of such merchants Europeans were not allowed to take part in the fair at all."[8] Lieutenant C. J. Cruttenden, who wrote a memoir describing this portion of the Somali coast dated 12 May 1848, provided an account of the Berbera fair and an account of the only visible traces of man at the site: "an aqueduct of stone and chunam, some nine miles in length", which had once emptied into a presently dry reservoir adjacent to the ruins of a mosque. He explored part of its course from the reservoir past a number of tombs built of stones taken from the aqueduct to reach a spring, above which lay "the remains of a small fort or tower of chunam and stone ... on the hill-side immediately over the spring." Cruttenden noted that in "style it was different to any houses now found on the Somali coast," and concluded with noting the presence in "the neighbourhood of the fort above mentioned [an] abundance of broken glass and pottery ... from which I infer that it was a place of considerable antiquity; but, though diligent search was made, no traces of inscriptions could be discovered."[9]

The British explorer Richard Burton made two visits to this port, and his second visit was marred by an attack on his camp by several hundred Somali spearmen the night of 19 April 1855, and although Burton was able to escape to Aden, one of his companions was killed.[10] Burton, recognizing the importance of the port city wrote:



In the first place, Berberah is the true key of the Red Sea, the centre of East African traffic, and the only safe place for shipping upon the western Erythraean shore, from Suez to Guardafui. Backed by lands capable of cultivation, and by hills covered with pine and other valuable trees, enjoying a comparatively temperate climate, with a regular although thin monsoon, this harbour has been coveted by many a foreign conqueror. Circumstances have thrown it as it were into our arms, and, if we refuse the chance, another and a rival nation will not be so blind."[11]


Early modern period[edit]
In 1874-75, the Egyptians obtained a firman from the Ottomans by which they secured claims over the city. At the same time, the Egyptians received British recognition of their nominal jurisdiction as far east as Cape Guardafui.[12] In actuality, however, Egypt had little authority over the interior and their period of rule on the coast was brief, lasting only a few years (1870–84)

British Somaliland[edit]
Main article: British Somaliland


1922 map of Somalia showing Italian Somaliland and British Somaliland, including Berbera.
In 1888, after signing successive treaties with the then ruling Somali Sultans such as Mohamoud Ali Shire of the Warsangali Sultanate, the British established a protectorate in the region referred to as British Somaliland.[14] The British garrisoned the protectorate from Aden and administered it from their British India colony until 1898. British Somaliland was then administered by the Foreign Office until 1905 and afterwards by the Colonial Office.

Generally, the British did not have much interest in the resource-barren region.[15] The stated purposes of the establishment of the protectorate were to "secure a supply market, check the traffic in slaves, and to exclude the interference of foreign powers." [16] The British principally viewed the protectorate as a source for supplies of meat for their British Indian outpost in Aden through the maintenance of order in the coastal areas and protection of the caravan routes from the interior.[17] Hence, the region's nickname of "Aden's butcher's shop".[18] Colonial administration during this period did not extend administrative infrastructure beyond the coast,[19] and contrasted with the more interventionist colonial experience of Italian Somaliland.[20]

In August 1940, during the East African Campaign, British Somaliland was briefly occupied by Italy. During this period, the British rounded up soldiers and governmental officials to evacuate them from the territory through Berbera. In total, 7,000 people, including civilians were evacuated.[21] The Somalis serving in the Somaliland Camel Corps were given the choice of evacuation or disbandment; the majority chose to remain and were allowed to retain their arms.[22] In March 1941, the British forces recaptured the protectorate during Operation Appearance after a six month occupation. The first WW2 Australian POWs were taken hostage here in 1940.

The British Somaliland protectorate gained its independence on 26 June 1960 as the State of Somaliland,[23][24] before uniting as planned five days later with the Trust Territory of Somalia (the former Italian Somaliland) to form the Somali Republic.[25]

Modern
In the post-independence period, Berbera was administered as the part of the Woqooyi Galbeed province of Somalia. After the collapse of the Somali central government and the start of the civil war in 1991, Somali National Movement (SNM) secessionists in the northwestern part of the country unilaterally declared independence. A slow process of infrastructural reconstruction subsequently began in Berbera and other towns in the region.


_____________________________________


SOMOLIA

The Somali language is a member of the Cushitic branch of the Afro-Asiatic family. Its nearest relatives are the Afar and Saho languages. Somali is the best documented of the Cushitic languages, with academic studies of it dating from before 1900.
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http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml

E1b1b 80% (high diversity also)
aka E3b, M35

E1b1b1b 1.5%
aka M81 so called berber marker, low to none like Siwa

however it is believed M35 is the ancestor of M81


"The data suggest that the male Somali population is a branch of the East African population − closely related to the Oromos in Ethiopia and North Kenya − with predominant E3b1 [now "E1b1b1"] cluster lineages... and that the Somali male population has approximately 15% Y chromosomes from Eurasia and approximately 5% from sub-Saharan Africa."

Sanchez et al. (2005)

After haplogroup E1b1b, the second most frequently occurring Y DNA haplogroup among Somalis is the Eurasian haplogroup T (M70),[72] which is found in slightly more than 10% of Somali males. Haplogroup T, like haplogroup E1b1b, is also typically found among populations of Northeast Africa, North Africa, the Near East and the Mediterranean

ccording to mtDNA studies by Holden (2005) and Richards et al. (2006), a significant proportion of the maternal lineages of Somalis consists of the M1 haplogroup,[75][76] which is common among Ethiopians and North Africans, particularly Egyptians and Algerians. M1 is believed to have originated in Asia,[79] where its parent M clade represents the majority of mtDNA lineages[80] (particularly in India).[81] This haplogroup is also thought to possibly correlate with the Afro-Asiatic language family:[

"We analysed mtDNA variation in ~250 persons from Libya, Somalia, and Congo/Zambia, as representatives of the three regions of interest. Our initial results indicate a sharp cline in M1 frequencies that generally does not extend into sub-Saharan Africa. While our North and especially East African samples contained frequencies of M1 over 20%, our sub-Saharan samples consisted almost entirely of the L1 or L2 haplogroups only. In addition, there existed a significant amount of homogeneity within the M1 haplogroup. This sharp cline indicates a history of little admixture between these regions. This could imply a more recent ancestry for M1 in Africa, as older lineages are more diverse and widespread by nature, and may be an indication of a back-migration into Africa from the Middle East."
--- Holden (2005)

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xyyman
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Sweetheart...bro...when you put it togeher. Berbers are indigenous Africans. Their origin, yes, is East African ...Somalia..no?? But based upon numerous SNP studies(without pic spam) and nrYDNA/MtDNA their origin is most likely Luyha.

The same genetic studies confirm that the AEians are more related to the Masaai vs the Luyha. For some reason there is a sharp division between the Nile Valley inhabitants and Maghreb, going back 50,000yrs. AEians being closely affliliated to the peoples further south.

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zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
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"The data suggest that the male Somali population is a branch of the East African population − closely related to the Oromos in Ethiopia and North Kenya − with predominant E3b1 [now "E1b1b1"] cluster lineages... and that the Somali male population has approximately 15% Y chromosomes from Eurasia and approximately 5% from sub-Saharan Africa."

Sanchez et al. (2005)


^^The only thing wrong with the above statement is
that SOmalia is ITSELF SUB-SAHARAN. Somalia is in
"sub-Saharan" Africa, thus making the overwhelming
bulk of their DNA, over 80% precisely from "sub-Saharan" Africa.


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 -

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^Amazing fact- Somalia is in.. wait for it.. SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA..
so is Ethiopia, making attempts to play the "sub-Saharan
race card," laughably bogus..



The spread of the Sahara desert southward obscures the fact that numerous
African archaelogical sites stood further north of the current “sub-Saharan” so-
called “barrier”. Pyramids do appear in "sub-saharan" Africa in the greater Meroe
region - including sites south of Meroe like Naqa -part of a cultural complex
extending into Egypt from the Sudan over the millennia.

Whether man-made, via climatic cycle or a combination of factors causing desertification, the spread of the Sahara south makes numerous African sites non “sub-Saharan” and obscures a fuller picture of the peoples and cultures in the region. In the Sudan for example, yearly expansion of desert southward is a long-standing pattern for decades. QUOTE:

"Across the continent, the Sahara is spreading southward at a rate of more than three miles a year." -A. Guzman (2013) Overheated: The Human cost of climate change. p lxxiv

"Excessive grazing of cattle and goats by an ever-expanding human population is the main reason for the Sahara's southward expansion at a rate of 5.5 to 8 km per year."
Wolfe, Hertz and Starr (2004) General Biology. p 1224.

" a 1975 survey by the United Nations found the desert to be expanding southward at 5.5 kilometers per year in the Sudan.." Goudie and Cuff (2001) Encyclopedia of Global Change, p. 253.

-----------------------

so-called “sub-Saharan” cultures once moved far to the north. As one mainstream scholar notes:
"Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north.
The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could
fairly be called a Sudanese transplant."
--J. Vogel (1997) Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction. Encyclopedia
of Precolonial Africa. pp. 465-472


sub-saharan pyramids
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naqa site - meroe
 -

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the lioness,
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E1b1b1b* (E-M35 *). By latest definition in Trombetta et al. 2011, rare outside the Horn of Africa.


E1b1b1a* (E-V68*). Found in individuals in Sardinia.

E1b1b1a1 (E-M78). North Africa, Horn of Africa, West Asia, Europe. (Formerly "E1b1b1a".)

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the lioness,
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The thing that caught my attention is the word Barbara or Berbera in Somalia being referred to as "land of the berbers"
yet being far from the Maghreb.

But the people there are not currently referred to as berber.

Their language is not one of the berber language but is Cushitic and categorized as being in the same language family.

yet Siwa are called still called berber

Do the berbers of the Magheb have some connection in particualr to the Somali region, more so than closer places, Ethiopia, Sudan or Egypt
or is this word "berber" something Greeks were applying and there isn't some special connection?

__________________________

wiki:

The Greek term "βάρβαρος / βάρβαροι" was originally a derogatory term for all non-Greek speakers. The nonsense syllables "bar-bar" have no meaning in Greek; the term implied that all languages other than Greek were a collection of nonsense syllables. The term has been variously translated as "stutterers," "stammerers," or "babblers." But the term did include, from the beginning, a connotation of being non-civilized or "barbaric" that later became primary in cognate terms like "barbarian."

Contrary to ancient sources, the Amazigh/Imazighen (the Berber people) were not called barbarians[1] by the Greeks and Romans. The Berbers were known as Libyans (Λίβυες or Λίβυοι) or Mazyes[2] (Μάζυες or Μάξυες; Mazaces in Latin) to the ancient Greeks derived from Mazigh the ancestor of the Berbers. They were known under many other names to the Romans as Numidians, Mauri and Moors. The Egyptians called their western neighbors the Meshwesh and Libu.

Because the Berbers were called Al-Barbar by the Arabs, the modern European languages and other ones adopted it from the Arabic language. The Arabs probably did not use the name Al-Barbar mainly as a derogatory name. The ancient Arab-Muslim historians were not aware of the origin of that name, they cited some myths or stories about the name. The most notorious myth considers an eponymous Barbar as the ancestor of the Berbers. According to that myth, "the Berbers were the descendants of Barbar, the son of Tamalla, the son of Mazigh, the son of Canaan, the son of Ham, the son of Noah" (Ibn Khaldun, The History of Ibn Khaldun, Chapter 3). Another people called Berbers by medieval Arab and ancient Greek geographers, respectively, were the ancestors of the Somalis. Barbara, an ancient region on the northern coast of Somalia was referred to as Bilad al-Barbar (Land of the Berbers).[3][4][5]

The fact that the name Berber is a strange name to the Berbers led to confusion. Some sources claim that the Berbers are several ethnic groups who are not related to each other. That is not accurate, because the Berbers refer to themselves as Imazighen singular: Amazigh, throughout all of North Africa from Canary Islands to Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya including the Egyptian oasis of Siwa and about half of the Sahara Desert. In addition, genetic studies suggest a strong genetic bond between all the inhabitants of modern-day North Africa west of the Nile river.

The origins of both the names Berber and Amazigh is ambiguous. The oldest cited reference to "Amazigh" goes back to the neighboring ancient Egyptians when they mentioned an ancient Libyan tribe called Meshwesh. Those Meshwesh are supposed by some scholars to be the same ancient Libyan tribe that was mentioned as Maxyans by the Greek historian Herodotus.

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PreColonialAfrica13
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When was that building in berbera(the ottoman era one) built? Parts of northern somalia were within the ottoman sphere of influence after the adal sultanate declined in the 16th century but there's very little info on it. I know at one point they controlled Zeila but am unsure as to whether berbera was too. Was it direct control or were these northern kingdoms vassals who merely paid tribute?

The name itself is curious as the city and both region of berbera in northern somalia would imply a connection with berbers.

Ancient mosque in berbera  -

Medieval houses and living quarters:  -

 -

Another old mosque(150-500 years old):  -

And another ancient mosque:  -

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PreColonialAfrica13
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Drawing of old berbera(1800s):  -

An old street in berbera:  -

Caravan leaving the ancient city of berbera:  -

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the lioness,
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please remove the giant picture it's ruining the readability of the thread

thanks

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PreColonialAfrica13
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Sorry, it's too late for me to remove. It won't let me edit it. My bad!
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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
please remove the giant picture it's ruining the readability of the thread

thanks

You fail again.



Eastern African Origins


quote:
In addition, Bayesian skyline analysis of 328 complete L3 sequences and founder analysis of 2,359 L3 hypervariable segment I (HVS-I) sequences enabled us to infer both local demographic expansions and migrations within Africa.


[...]


The diversification of L3 in Eastern Africa began early, as demonstrated by the ages of L3a and L3h (fig. 1), both of which are virtually specific to this region (fig. 3A). The BSP for Eastern Africa (supplementary fig. S6, Supplementary Material online) alone rises most steeply only after 40 ka (table 1), but the plot shows a progressive increase from before 50 ka. Accordingly, the scan of HVS-I diversity of founder L3 lineages in Eastern Africa showed a peak at ∼58.8 ka (corresponding to nearly three quarters of the L3 data in Eastern Africa; table 2), followed by a second peak at ∼1.8 ka.

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchSingleRepresentation.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0007842.s001


http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/suppl/2011/10/02/msr245.DC1/Supplemental_TableS4.xls

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/suppl/2011/10/02/msr245.DC1/Supplemental_Material2.txt


http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/suppl/2011/10/02/msr245.DC1/Supplemental_TreeUpdatedOctober.xls



-Pedro Soares et al.

The Expansion of mtDNA Haplogroup L3 within and out of Africa

Mol Biol Evol (2012) 29 (3): 915-927.


 -




The American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 88 Supplemental Data


A Revised Root for the Human Y Chromosomal
Phylogenetic Tree: The Origin of Patrilineal
Diversity in Africa


Fulvio Cruciani, Beniamino Trombetta, Andrea Massaia, Giovanni Destro-Bisol, Daniele Sellitto, and Rosaria Scozzari


http://download.cell.com/AJHG/mmcs/journals/0002-9297/PIIS0002929711001649.mmc1.pdf

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