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Author Topic: beyoku asks: Which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?
the lioness,
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.


quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
very simple question....Which human population is the most genetically distinct from SSA?



.
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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:

So what does your method reveal about say

* East Africa vs Tigara
or
* Pygmy vs EuroAmerican ?

By your method is Jebel Sahaba closer to
* East Africa
or
* West Africa?

What is the meaning of branches on the same limb?

What is being measured as the distance between populations?


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
The way to determine the distance bewteen two populations on the above dendogram is to

start at the name of the first populaltion.

Then you follow the line path eminating from that name it like a mouse in a maze to the second popualation.

You can move in any direction along the path, up, down, backwards or forwards, whatever is the shortest distance from one population to the next.

Since the scale of this chart is horizontal you only record the distances of the horizontal movements.

When you put these horizontal segments together and measure them in total, that is the distance bewteen two populations

 -

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beyoku
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Very simple question for amun ra the turd.
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the lioness,
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I think the question is not simple and I wonder if beyoku is even sure of the answer
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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
I think the question is not simple and I wonder if beyoku is even sure of the answer

mtDNA Haplogroup predicting motifs


L3f 16209C 16223T 16311C

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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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I didn't answer Beyoku because that's just a way for him to avoid answering my argumentations against his hamitic race myth points by points. Making exchanges go in circles. He knows I am right so he tries to divert the attention away with stupid questions.

As long as Beyoku and Swenet don't provide counter argumentation points by points from my post below. They implicitely admit I am right, which they already did. I'm just happy to have thoroughly debunked these 2 undercover racists for everyone to see:

Notice how I even put up a nice picture to explain part of my argumentation to Beyoku (and Swenet) visually.

@ES readers

In his quest to prove the racist hamitic race myth, Swenet (and Beyoku) is trying to tell us above that East Africans/Horn Africans are closer to Eurasian populations carrying the MtDNA haplogroups M and N than West African populations even at the moment of the OOA migrations. So before any back migrations of M and N MtDNA carriers in the last 3000 years (ethio-semitic speakers). He's wrong on so many level that I don't know where to start. So basically, for example he tries to say that unadmixed indigenous Somali, are closer genetically to Eurasian than West Africans.

For that he tries to use the fact that the Eurasian mtDNA M and N haplogroups are descendants of the basal L3 haplogroups. But this is wrong on so many levels.

First, the L3 haplogroups is common to almost all African populations, including East and West Africans. For example, using the numbers from the study called Complex Genetic History of East African Human Populations by Hirbo (2011) . We can see that both East and West Africans carry the African L3 haplogroups (excluding Eurasian M, N of course). For example, Yoruba got 45.45% of L3, while Somali 44.68% of L3.


Yoruba L3 45.45% (12.12+6.06+21.21+6.06)
Somali L3 44.68% (7.41+3.74+7.47+11.11+3.74+3.74+7.47)


Second, OOA migrants, future non-Africans, current Eurasian M and N carriers are not descendant of any East African L3 haplogroups (like L3i, L3j, L3k, etc). They are descendant of the BASAL L3 mtDNA haplogroup, which is common to almost all African populations including East and West Africans.

Third, as mentioned above, there's a 40-60kya gaps between East African populations and the back migration of Eurasian populations carrying M and N haplogroups into Eastern Africa. More than enough time for each of those people to become their own people with their own genetic profile, physiology and history.

Fourth, East Africans populations are not only composed of the haploroup L3 but also L0, L1, L2, etc mtDNA haplogroups. People carrying those haplogroups admixed with each others for several years after the OOA migrations of the M and N hg carriers. Around 62 000 years!!!

Fifth, last but not the least. Those 4 points above are more than enough to make my point but Swenet will come back in his desperate attempt to prove the hamitic race myth to say that East and West Africans don't have the same L3 haplogroups. For example, and this part is true, Horn Africans carry the mtDNA haplogroups L3i, L3x, but not West Africans, while West Africans carry the L3e haplogroups but not Horn Africans (Note: at the same time, east and west Africans share many haplogroups such as L2a, L3f, L3d, etc as E-P2 carriers). So in a stupid manner, he will try to say that this make somehow Horn Africans not so much related to other Africans like West Africans than to the basal L3 haplogroups and thus, in a ridiculous logic, Eurasians.

But this is false too!

Yes, Horn Africans are carry by L3i, L3x haplogroups while West Africans carry the L3e haplogroups. But the L3i, L3x and L3e haplogroups are united by the L3eikx haplogroups. One of the common grandmother of East and West Africans!!

You can see it here, if you take the time:
http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_L3.htm


The same thing can be said about the common East and West African L3bf grandmother and L3cd grandmother! (Note: L3a and L3h are absent in many Horn African populations like Somali, Afar, Beja, etc, so they can't be used to prove the hamitic race myth).

Visual aid for Beyoku:
 -


^^^This last point, the fifth, will leave Swenet sulking for weeks. All those points hurt his retarded racist ass. They also hurt Beyoku.

So contrary to what Swenet and Beyoku try to promote with their racist hamitic race myth. OOA/Eurasian populations are not particularly closer to modern East African populations like Horn Africans, beside through the back migrations of non-African populations into the Eastern African region starting around 3000 years ago by future ethiosemitic speakers carrying the mtDNA M and N haplogroups, compared to most other African populations like West Africans.

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beyoku
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@troll patrol.
Are you programed to make a post after lioness on every thread? It's like you are chasing her like a lost puppy.

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KING
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Whats with all this bickering???

Is EGOS THAT HUGE that people can't just refute each others data without getting personal??

I mean I have learned nothing but how to rub each others egos and feel the best way to educate is by speaking over each other.

I'm getting dizzy just reading these things...Whats the point??

Xyyman at least posts Hard data and tries to breakdown the data. Ish Gebor posts the studies. Learn from these guys people and lionee why you dragging Beyokus post and creating a thread out of it and Not Answering Tukulers post???

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
@troll patrol.
Are you programed to make a post after lioness on every thread? It's like you are chasing her like a lost puppy.

stop trying to cause trouble, his post came after Trollkillah

I made this thread because I thought this is an interesting question

quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:

Which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?


I challenge anybody including you to try to answer that
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Son of Ra
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Even though I have no reasons in this discussion or what its about....

Pacific Islanders and Southeast Asian Negritos???

Whats the argument if I may ask?

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Son of Ra
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@Amum-RA

IIRC and not trying to start anything, but I thought I tried to inform to you that Horners being genetically closer to Eurasians compared to other Africans doesn't necessary mean they're heavily admixed? Greeks are closer to Africans compared to other Europeans, but are Greeks heavily admixed?

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
@troll patrol.
Are you programed to make a post after lioness on every thread? It's like you are chasing her like a lost puppy.

If I was lost I would not post this:


mtDNA Haplogroup predicting motifs


L3f 16209C 16223T 16311C

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
@troll patrol.
Are you programed to make a post after lioness on every thread? It's like you are chasing her like a lost puppy.

stop trying to cause trouble, his post came after Trollkillah

I made this thread because I thought this is an interesting question

quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:

Which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?


I challenge anybody including you to try to answer that

Tukular challenged you as well, you however did not respond. Which is a pity.
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KING
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quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:
@Amum-RA

IIRC and not trying to start anything, but I thought I tried to inform to you that Horners being genetically closer to Eurasians compared to other Africans doesn't necessary mean they're heavily admixed? Greeks are closer to Africans compared to other Europeans, but are Greeks heavily admixed?

FINALLY!!!! SOME SENSE.

Yeah to think that Horners are less African then West and South And South East Africans is just foolishness.

I mean Have you Looked at Ethiopians?? Yes there genetics is complex like any river valley people.

BUT

Just Like Greeks are Mixed...You would be hard pressed to take a Greek from a Italian etc. They have dark skin Because of their African Ancestry, Yet Ethiopians are just as Dark As Kenyans, Tanzanians etc.

Horners are closer to Eurasians, not because of admixture, but because Majority of The OOA peeps come out of them young bloods. Whats regarded as Euro is Actually for all in tense and purposes, fundamentally African.

Genetics is Like Gymnastic. They Bend, contort and some times flip the scrip to serve the purpose of the euro audience. You gotta take it with a grain of salt.

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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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@Son of Ra
@Child Of The KING
@ES readers

I think I made it pretty clear that Europeans (or Eurasians) are not subset of East African people but a subset of African people period!!!

Eurasians are descendants of the Y-DNA CT haplogroup and the MtDNA L3 haplogroup common to both East and West Africans!!

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Son of Ra
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quote:
Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
@Son of Ra
@Child Of The KING
@ES readers

I think I made it pretty clear that Europeans (or Eurasians) are not subset of East African people but a subset of African people period!!!

Eurasians are descendants of the Y-DNA CT haplogroup and the MtDNA L3 haplogroup common to both East and West Africans!!

Its widely accepted that most Eurasians descend from a small group of migrating East Africans. I would post more but I'm on my phone.
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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
@Son of Ra
@Child Of The KING
@ES readers

I think I made it pretty clear that Europeans (or Eurasians) are not subset of East African people but a subset of African people period!!!

Eurasians are descendants of the Y-DNA CT haplogroup and the MtDNA L3 haplogroup common to both East and West Africans!!

We agree on this, since multiple out migrations took place.


Genetics of Human Origins and Adaptation

Lecture given by Sarah Tishkoff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkPGM9b61P8


Genotype/Phenotype Association Studies

quote:
For many of the individuals for which we have obtained DNA, we also collected phenotype data for traits likely to play a role in adaptation, some of which demonstrate a complex pattern of inheritance and are likely influenced by multiple loci and environmental factors. In addition to case/control analyses of variation at candidate genes, we are using whole-genome association studies to identify novel genes that are associated with these traits. Together with collaborators, we are also developing methods for mapping complex traits (including disease) in highly structured African populations.

--Sarah Tishkoff, Ph.D
http://www.med.upenn.edu/apps/faculty/index.php/g306/c404/p8186169


quote:

A number of novel genetic and phenotypic adaptations have also evolved in Africans in response to dramatic variation in environment, diet, and exposure to infectious disease across the continent.

--Sarah Tishkoff et al.

The Evolution of Human Genetic and Phenotypic Variation in Africa


quote:
Although the study's main focus was on Africa, Tishkoff and her colleagues studied DNA markers from around the planet, identifying 14 "ancestral clusters" for all of humanity. Nine of those clusters are in Africa. "You're seeing more diversity in one continent than across the globe," Tishkoff said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/30/AR2009043002485.html


Micheal Novacak. Notice him stating, multiple migrations...:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=b_-Zss2dYuM

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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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@Son of Ra

Eurasians are descendants of the Y-DNA CT haplogroup and the MtDNA L3 haplogroup common to both East and West Africans. It can't be clearer than this.

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Son of Ra
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Then why are Horners genetically closer to Eurasians compared to "MOST" Africans.

Note Keyword: Most

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
@Son of Ra

Eurasians are descendants of the Y-DNA CT haplogroup and the MtDNA L3 haplogroup common to both East and West Africans. It can't be clearer than this.

quote:
This branching pattern, along with the geographical distribution of the major clades A, B, and CT, has been interpreted as supporting an African origin for anatomically modern humans,10 with Khoisan from south Africa and Ethiopians from east Africa sharing the deepest lineages of the phylogeny.15 and 16

[...]

The deepest branching separates A1b from a monophyletic clade whose members (A1a, A2, A3, B, C, and R) all share seven mutually reinforcing derived mutations (five transitions and two transversions, all at non-CpG sites).


 -


These chromosomes belong to a clade (haplogroup BT) in which chromosomes C and R share a common ancestor (Figure 2).

--Fulvio Cruciani et al
A Revised Root for the Human Y Chromosomal Phylogenetic Tree: The Origin of Patrilineal Diversity in Africa (2011)
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929711001649


quote:
 -

As we'll see, other genetic data corroborates the mitochondrial results, placing the root of the human family tree - our most recent common ancestor- in Africa within the past few hundred thousand years. Consistent with this result, all of the genetic data shows the greatest number of polymorphisms in Africa - there is simply far more variation in that continent than anywhere else. You are more likely to sample extremely divergent genetic lineages within a single African village than you are in whole of the rest of the world. The majority of the genetic polymorphisms found in our species are found uniquely in Africans - Europeans, Asians and Native Americans carry only a small sample of the extraordinary diversity that can be found in any African village.

Why does diversity indicate greater age? Thinking back to our hypothetical Provencal village, why do the bouillabaisse recipes change? Because in each generation, a daughter decides to modify her soup in a minor way. Over time, these small variations add up to an extraordinary amount of diversity in the village's kitchens. And - critically - the longer the village has been accumulating these changes, the more diverse it is. It is like a clock, ticking away in units of rosemary and thyme - the longer it has been ticking, the more differences we see. It is the same phenomenon Emile Zuckerkandl noted in his proteins - more time equals more change. So, when we see greater genetic diversity in a particular population, we can infer that the population is older - and this makes Africa the oldest of all.

--Dr Spencer Wells,
The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey, p 39.

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the lioness,
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Which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?

quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:


Pacific Islanders and Southeast Asian Negritos???


^the one person who stayed on thread topic

-and what haplogroups are they from ??
which haplogroups are most distant frorm SSA?

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Son of Ra
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Just asking, is all...
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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:
Then why are Horners genetically closer to Eurasians compared to "MOST" Africans.

Because of the back migration of Eurasian people in East Africa in the last 3000 years.

 -

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Son of Ra
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@Amun

Corrext me if I am wrong. So are you implying that the connection is primarily due to horners being admixed with Eurasians? Not denying that some horners have Eurasian admixture.

Again correct me if I'm wrong.

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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:
@Amun

Corrext me if I am wrong. So are you implying that the connection is primarily due to horners being admixed with Eurasians?

Compared to most other Africans like West Africans, yes.
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Interesting.
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Son of Ra
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quote:
Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:
@Amun

Corrext me if I am wrong. So are you implying that the connection is primarily due to horners being admixed with Eurasians?

Compared to most other Africans like West Africans, yes.
Okay.
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the lioness,
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Amun-Ra you're wrong
Trollkillah teaches that the T/C split occured long before humans left Africa
therefore all haplogroups originated inside of Africa


Vol I. Myth of the "Non-African" Haplogroup
ES Uber club

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the lioness,
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DNA Tribes Genetic Relationships in Africa 2009


 -
 -
 -

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beyoku
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quote:
Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
@Son of Ra
@Child Of The KING
@ES readers

I think I made it pretty clear that Europeans (or Eurasians) are not subset of East African people but a subset of African people period!!!\

Eurasians are descendants of the Y-DNA CT haplogroup and the MtDNA L3 haplogroup common to both East and West Africans!!

"Africans" from WHERE? (East Africa)...exactly.
WHERE do the L3 lineages from West Africans come from....East Africa.........Exactly.

You are making a mistake in thinking that Y-dna and mtDNA are the ONLY things that can explain substructure in Africa.

All African are NOT the same. If you believe recent Admixture accounts for the position of Horn Africans in relation to Eurasians then this is also the case for Youruba, Mbuti, Mandinka and Dinka:

 -

You are getting your ideas directly out of the Euroclown playbook and have the gall to accuse someone else are bringing up "Hamites". [Confused]

Take a hard look at that image. Notice the NATURAL progression of Africans in a Cline. Where do you think the AFRICAN ancestry of Ethiopians would sit? What about the African ancestry of Sudanese?....or the African specific ancestry of Egyptians? Each population would be closer and Closer to Eurasians based simply on GEOGRAPHY...........and not simply ANY Eurasians. Not the Japanese....They would be closer to whatever Eurasians are right outside the continent.

You are a clown. I remember it was Dienekes that was using the Khoisan and the base of African ancestry to show that all SSA...even the Yoruba were "mixed". You fools are two peas in a pod.

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the lioness,
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Son of Ra
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I never took anything Dienekes said seriously. He isn't a geneticist nor anthropologist.
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^^^ The only clown is you Beyoku
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Amun-Ra you're wrong
Trollkillah teaches that the T/C split occured long before humans left Africa
therefore all haplogroups originated inside of Africa


Vol I. Myth of the "Non-African" Haplogroup
ES Uber club

A Haplotype is just a signature, a name to branch. They could have called it the walking duck as well....


Repost!


By Bonnie Schrack author at Rootsweb.


RootsWeb: GENEALOGY-DNA-L [DNA] Spanish mtDNA and 16223

I originally wrote this in response to Grant's earlier message:

Grant wrote:
>I know that women pass on mtDNA
>as a sealed unit, and the U-2 with
>16129-A has a lot of other baggage,
>but Spanish mtDNA might explain
>the source of that results. It came
>from my g-grandmother, Dorah Francisco
>MIDDLETON. Francisco was her
>middle name, proudly recorded
>in several places, and passed on
>to one of her sons.

But -- I've just now read the followup from Bennett that you forwarded,
explaining that what you have is 16129C. I'm so happy for you, and
delighted that he was so good about correcting the error!

what other mutations it's found with, as I'll explain.

As implied by what Ana (below) said, 16129A is a widespread mutation,
found in many haplogroups all over the world, including L1a, L1c and
M1. Since it's in L1, it can be considered a feature of earliest mtDNA
strain coming out of Africa, and the loss of it would constitute a
marker of distance from African origins.

That is certainly the case with the mutation 16223T>C. Macaulay says,
"Eurasian mtDNAs are split, by 16223 C/T, into two substantial classes
(e.g., 16223T is in 7% of Europeans .... and 65% of Mongolians...),
whereas Africans predominantly have 16223T [91%...] The 16223T state
also characterizes the Neanderthal sequence ...
Whether the thymine-cytosine transition, inferred to have occurred
around the time of "out-of-Africa" event, happened just once has never
been clear... [However], there is another T>C transition] at np 12705
that also splits off the 16223C
clusters (J, T, U, H, and V). Thus, we
confidently can identify a single common 16223 event, at least for these
clusters.
...This is fully consistent with modern Eurasian mtDNA being derived
from the 16223[T] sequence (in HVS1) which, during an Upper Paleolithic
expansion, gave rise to, among others, clusters A, I, M, W, X, and,
after the 16223T-C/12705T-C events, all the Reference-Sequence-derived
clusters (e.g., B, F, T, J, U, H, and V) in the concomitant rapid
branching of the genealogy."


He refers more than once to the 16223T>C transition as causing a "deep
split in the phylogeny."


What does this mean? It means that any time you see an mtDNA haplotype
that includes 16223 in its list of mutations, you can assume that it
does not belong to U, K (they left that out of their list since it's
really a clade of U), T, J, H, V, etc., but instead belongs to one of
the less common European groups, I, W, or X, or else one of the many
non-European haplogroups who retain this ancestral marker.

Since samples 18, 34, 39, and 48 in the Spanish database, who have
16129A, also have 16223T, the ancient African state of that marker, you
can be sure they are not in haplogroup U, for example.

Since your haplotype does not have 16223T (but instead 16223C), you can
be pretty sure that you are in one of the haplogroups B, F, T, J, U, K,
H, or V. Since you do have the key mutation 16051, and the other
typical U2 mutations you can be pretty sure that you're in that
haplogroup.

For the samples 6, 47, 54, and 90, they have the mutation 16129A, but
not 16223T. Thus, we can presume that like you, they are in one of
those haplogroups that has the modern 16223C, but one would have to
examine their other mutations more carefully to determine which one.

Since sample 99 does have 16051, there's a chance that it could be in
U2. But it's hard to say for sure, given just this data.

And Ana wrote:
>Although we are L1c, we also have
>16129 A as one of our 13 HVR1
>mutations and we do have documented
>direct ancestors from Spain. Do you
>have any idea where your great-
>grandmother was born or what area
>she was from? We could check to
>see if anyone with the surname Francisco
>is listed in Spain's Archivos de las Indias . . .

Searching on the surname Francisco in Spanish records is a worthwhile
idea in and of itself, if you want to try that, regardless of the mtDNA
involved. I did a tiny bit of research on the Francisco surname. They
often intermarried with the Dutch in colonial America, seem to have been
French, Belgian, or from the Spanish Netherlands, are reputed to be
Huguenots, and many believe them to have Spanish origins, though this
isn't clear. I'll send you more off-list.

The fact that Ana has 16129A does not link her family particularly to
Spain, though.

The haplogroup L1c would be indicative of African ancestry, probably in
historical times, while, as I mentioned, your U2 mtDNA is Eurasian, and
on the other side of the 16223 split from L1c (and L1a, M, etc.)



http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2003-07/1057946048


Apparently the so called C-split 16223C, is found in Africa as well, clustering with old clades. This split they tend to cluster with out of Africa migrations. And since it is out of Africa, and then became predominant, they say it's Eurasian. However, the root is already found within African populations.


quote:


Haplogroup L1b roots deeply in the human mtDNA phylogeny and has the characteristic motif 16126, 16187, 16189, 16223, 16264, 16270, 116278, 16311.

[...]


--Frigi et al.
Ancient Local Evolution of African mtDNA Haplogroups in Tunisian Berber Populations


In addition to IronLion's work:

quote:
http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/1077329/7908829/mmc2.xls


http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/L0k_genbank_sequences.htm


http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v56/n9/extref/jhg201171x2.xls


C16223T – L0b – 16223C, L0d1a – 16223C, L0k2 – 16223C, L1c1a1 – 16223C, L2d – 16223C, L3x2a – 16223C, L3e2b – 16223C, M1a3b – 16223C, M7c3 – 16223C, N21 – 16223C, Q1a – 16223C, R – 16223C, R2a – 16223C, U4a2b – 16223T, X2h – 16223C, D4c1a – 16223C, D4g2a1 – 16223C, D5c2 – 16223C, B5b1b – 16223T,

C12705T – R- 12705C.


http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-african-origin-of-the-so-called-caucasians-of-europe-ironlion/
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quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:
quote:
Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:
@Amun

Corrext me if I am wrong. So are you implying that the connection is primarily due to horners being admixed with Eurasians?

Compared to most other Africans like West Africans, yes.
Okay.
Topographically logically, as well as more likely that East Africans are closer to outside of Africa populations. Since neighboring populations tend to cluster more with each other.
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the lioness,
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out of context bluff out>


http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/01/17/1221359110.full.pdf


DNA analysis of an early modern human from Tianyuan Cave, China
Qiaomei Fua,b,1, Matthias Meyerb, Xing Gaoa, Udo Stenzelb, Hernán A. Burbanob,c, Janet Kelsob, and Svante Pääboa,b,1


Abstract
Hominins with morphology similar to present-day humans appear in the fossil record across Eurasia between 40,000 and 50,000 y ago. The genetic relationships between these early modern humans and present-day human populations have not been established. We have extracted DNA from a 40,000-y-old anatomically modern human from Tianyuan Cave outside Beijing, China. Using a highly scalable hybridization enrichment strategy, we determined the DNA sequences of the mitochondrial genome, the entire nonrepetitive portion of chromosome 21 (∼30 Mbp), and over 3,000 polymorphic sites across the nuclear genome of this individual. The nuclear DNA sequences determined from this early modern human reveal that the Tianyuan individual derived from a population that was ancestral to many present-day Asians and Native Americans but postdated the divergence of Asians from Europeans. They also show that this individual carried proportions of DNA variants derived from archaic humans similar to present-day people in mainland Asia.

 -


quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:


Take a hard look at that image. Notice the NATURAL progression of Africans in a Cline. Where do you think the AFRICAN ancestry of Ethiopians would sit?



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quote:

The genetic relationships between these early modern humans and present-day human populations have not been established.

--DNA analysis of an early modern human from Tianyuan Cave, China


An African American Paternal Lineage Adds an Extremely Ancient Root to the Human Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree


Copyright © 2013 The American Society of Human Genetics All rights reserved.

The American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 92, Issue 3, 454-459, 28 February 2013


quote:
We report the discovery of an African American Y chromosome that carries the ancestral state of all SNPs that defined the basal portion of the Y chromosome phylogenetic tree. We sequenced ∼240 kb of this chromosome to identify private, derived mutations on this lineage, which we named A00. We then estimated the time to the most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) for the Y tree as 338 thousand years ago (kya) (95% confidence interval = 237–581 kya). Remarkably, this exceeds current estimates of the mtDNA TMRCA, as well as those of the age of the oldest anatomically modern human fossils. The extremely ancient age combined with the rarity of the A00 lineage, which we also find at very low frequency in central Africa, point to the importance of considering more complex models for the origin of Y chromosome diversity. These models include ancient population structure and the possibility of archaic introgression of Y chromosomes into anatomically modern humans. The A00 lineage was discovered in a large database of consumer samples of African Americans and has not been identified in traditional hunter-gatherer populations from sub-Saharan Africa. This underscores how the stochastic nature of the genealogical process can affect inference from a single locus and warrants caution during the interpretation of the geographic location of divergent branches of the Y chromosome phylogenetic tree for the elucidation of human origins.

[...]


 -
quote:
Figure 1. Genealogy of A00, A0, and the Reference SequenceLineages on which mutations were identified and lineages that were used for placing those mutations on the genealogy are indicated with thick and thin lines, respectively. The numbers of identified mutations on a branch are indicated in italics (four mutations in A00 were not genotyped but are indicated as shared by Mbo in this tree). The time estimates (and confidence intervals) are indicated kya for three nodes: the most recent common ancestor, the common ancestor between A0 and the reference (ref), and the common ancestor of A00 chromosomes from an African American individual and the Mbo. Two sets of ages are shown: on the left are estimates (numbers in black) obtained with the mutation rate based on recent whole-genome-sequencing results as described in the main text, and on the right are estimates (numbers in gray) based on the higher mutation rate used by Cruciani et al.6
 -
quote:
We also estimated the level of variation among nine A00 lineages (i.e., including one additional Mbo individual) by using a battery of 95 Y-STRs for which all individuals had no missing data; (Table S2). A median-joining network28 shows that the African American A00 lineage is 11 mutational steps from the nearest Mbo and that the maximum difference between any pair of Mbo is nine steps (Figure 3 and Table S2). On the basis of these levels of within- and between-group variation, we calculated a second divergence time estimate of 564–2,697 years (Table 1) by assuming a mean Y-STR mutation rate of 1.32 × 10−4 and 2.76 × 10−5 per year, respectively.29 and 30
 -
quote:
Figure 3. Median-Joining Network of A00 HaplotypesThe network is based on haplotypes (constructed with 95 Y-STRs) of eight Mbo and an African American (AA) individual. All mutations are assumed to be single step and were given equal weight during the construction of the network. Marker names are indicated without “DYS” at the beginning.

code:
 Table 1. Pairwise and Average STR-Based Estimates of TMRCA for A00 Chromosomes

TMRCA (Years)
Mbo 52 Mbo 159 Mbo 160 Mbo 170 Mbo 173 Mbo 183 Mbo 186 Mbo 199 African American Average with Mboa
Mbo 52 - 80 120 159 239 159 199 120 478 154
Mbo 159 381 - 120 159 239 159 199 120 478 154
Mbo 160 572 572 - 120 199 199 239 159 439 165
Mbo 170 763 763 572 - 239 239 279 199 478 199
Mbo 173 1,144 1,144 953 1,144 - 319 359 279 399 268
Mbo 183 763 763 953 1,144 1,526 - 120 120 558 188
Mbo 186 953 953 1,144 1,335 1,716 572 - 159 598 222
Mbo 199 572 572 763 953 1,335 572 763 - 518 165
African American 2,288 2,288 2,098 2,288 1,907 2,670 2,860 2,479 - 564
Average with Mbob 736 736 790 953 1,280 899 1,062 790 2,697 -

We obtained point estimates of the TMRCA of two haplotypes by dividing the estimate of the number of mutational steps separating the haplotypes (as inferred from the network) by twice the mutational rate per STR and by the number of STRs scored in both haplotypes. Values above and below the diagonal separation correspond to estimates obtained with the high and low mutation rates, respectively (see text). The following abbreviation is used: TMRCA, time to the most recent common ancestor.


http://www.cell.com/AJHG/retrieve/pii/S0002929713000736

Full paper:

http://ac.els-cdn.com/S0002929713000736/1-s2.0-S0002929713000736-main.pdf?_tid=f139fbc0-27bb-11e3-a241-00000aab0f6c&acdnat=1380317571_68a0d709ae6f30ea5769e6cb13903b3a

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beyoku
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Troll patrol. Why are you just posting random stuff Over and over? LOL
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
Troll patrol. Why are you just posting random stuff Over and over? LOL

understament of the year
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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
Troll patrol. Why are you just posting random stuff Over and over? LOL

understament of the year
It's not random. It deals with the subject. LOL


I agree, this is the understatement of the year.

Extremely Ancient Root to the Human Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree

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the lioness,
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Trollkillah the subject is which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Trollkillah the subject is which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?

Yeah, I know.

And I responded to this part of your post.

quote:

The genetic relationships between these early modern humans and present-day human populations have not been established.

The problem of these authors is that they don't want to accept the fact that modern-man arose in Africa.
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the lioness,
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I'm not talking about early modern humans.

What groups today are most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
I'm not talking about early modern humans.


But that paper you've posted does. The authors reject the out of Africa "hypotheses". And the fact that modern mankind arose in Africa, then spread from there to populate the world.


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:


What groups today most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?

Beyoku is going to answer you. Beyoku gets mad whenever I interfere. In a way Beyoku is right.
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quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] I'm not talking about early modern humans.


But that paper you've posted does. The authors reject the out of Africa "hypotheses". And the fact that modern mankind arose in Africa, then spread from there to populate the world.



the fact that modern mankind arose in Africa then spread from there to populate the world >>> is the Out of Africa hypothesis

that's basic, please do some remedial study


quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
Beyoku is going to answer you. Beyoku gets mad whenever I interfere. In a way Beyoku is right.

beyoku is not going to answer which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans
he's trying to trick Amun Ra into doing it
Son of Ra is bravest so far, he took a guess at it

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2014/05/23/005348

Stephan Schiffels and Richard Durbin

Inferring human population size and separation history from multiple genome sequences

Our results are scaled to real times using a mutation rate of 1.25×10-8 per nucleotide per generation, as proposed recently [16] and supported by several direct mutation studies [14-16]. Using a value of 2.5×10-8 as was common previously [44, 45] would halve the times. This would bring the midpoint of the out-of-Africa separation to an uncomfortably recent 30-40kya, but more concerningly it would bring the separation of Native American ancestors (MXL) from East-Asian populations to 5-10kya, inconsistent with the paleontological record [25, 26].


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beyoku
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I am not trying to trick him. I am just trying to measure his level of stupidity.
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quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
I am not trying to trick him. I am just trying to measure his level of stupidity.

I don't think he's going to answer it, it's not directly relted to the argument in the other thread. People don't always want to be test-questioned set upped

quote:
Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

 -
From http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-snp-admixture-2014-06-03.pdf


This is Amun Ra's favorite chart, your question is answered here

In other studies it they might might have said North American Indians or Oceanic/Melanisian people might be the most
genetically distinct from Sub Saharans

However according to DNA Tribes, here, it seems to be a wide range or Europeans, West/East/North Asians and Indians are at similarly most distant positions to Africans. Bedouin Arabs and berbers not that far off and Spanish-Portugese and Aegean-Balkan-Italian not entertaining any notably closer relation

According to this chart Native Americans (here, Greenland or Mesoamerican) are closer to Africans than are South Indian Dravidians
-hard to believe but maybe

Note North African berbers (mid chart) are close to Basques and Askenazi Jews but not that close to other Africans

I haven't done the precise measurements on this chart but I think my remarks are correct

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You are dumb lady. That tree is not rooted. You don't know what you are looking at. There is no set up for amun ra. He already lost. He is like kojiro tossing his scabbard in the water prior to his fight with Musashi.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
[QB] You are dumb lady. That tree is not rooted. You don't know what you are looking at. There is no set up for amun ra.

You have not proved a single of my many remarks on this chart wrong
according to you this chart indicates absolutely nothing
It doesn't have to be "rooted" to determine the distance between populations and that is exactly what it does, stop the nonsense


This is indeed a set up for Amun Ra and when he gets back you're in big trouble

---lioness productions

P.S.. Which human population is the most genetically distinct from SSA?

^^^ beyoku's never going to answer this,

so far only Son of Ra has balls around here, the rest are mice (aka lioness meals)

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