posted
No pics seen a million times already No ancient Libyans No text essays, theories, etc.
No Kel Tamasheq from Faso or other savannah locales
Please do not respond to provocateurs who would derail this thread's purpose not matter how irking their taunts may be. Please no back and forth hem and haw over ideologies.
Just pics of modern day "Berbers" who are dark but are not Sudanic, Nilotic, or Gnawa.
Pics must have a caption telling who a/o where
Africa | A Berber woman dressed for the celebration of Moussem. | Location: Tarhjijt, Morrocco. Image credit Oliver Martel
A Berber woman wears her prized silver jewelry at a friend’s wedding. Akka, Morocco
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Berber ornamentations.
West Saharan woman, or as some people know them Moors. Ironically to some claims in the west, Maurish/Moors were not taken into slavery. They were too fierce to be taken anywhere. Maurish people are a diverse group with multiple sub ethnic groups. Most Maurish/Moors are from Mauritania and hence the name, and few live in west Sahara which is southern parts of Morocco.
The Sahrawi, or Saharaui are the people of the Western Sahara (the westernmost Sahara desert), in the area of present-day Mauritania, southern Morocco, the Western Sahara territory and extreme southwestern Algeria. The term Sahrawi is frequently used in more of a nationalist than an ethnic sense, particularly relating to the disputes over sovereignty in the Western Sahara. As with most Saharan peoples, their culture is mixed, showing Arab, Berber, and black African characteristics. They are comp
by Saqqara365. (B. Barbey) on Flickr Taufiq Marhaban Faces of Imazighen (Maghrebis)
Más de cien años ha permanecido la momia guanche mejor conservada que existe en el Museo de Antropología y de allí salió ayer para llegar a su nueva casa, el Museo Arqueológico Nacional (MAN), donde será la estrella del nuevo espacio dedicado a la prehistoria canaria.
Con un poema guanche despidieron en el Museo Nacional de Antropología de Madrid a la momia del Barranco de Herques, hallada en 1776 en Tenerife, tras lo que se inició su traslado al Arqueológico con un estricto protocolo de seguridad para evitar su deterioro.
A su llegada al MAN, seis operarios de una empresa especializada en transporte de obras de arte, embutidos en monos de protección y mascarillas, realizaron el traspaso de la frágil momia de la caja en la que fue trasladada a una vitrina especialmente diseñada para mantener las condiciones de conservación idóneas.
Hace unos meses ya se había hecho un simulacro del traslado y colocación de la momia, según explicó a Efe la conservadora jefe del Museo, Teresa Gómez Espinosa, que relató cómo el proceso ha sido muy complejo porque la momia es muy delicada.
La vitrina que la albergará a partir de ahora ha sido especialmente diseñada para mantener las condiciones de conservación idóneas e incorpora complejos dispositivos para análisis y mediciones en su interior con el fin de evitar el riesgo de contaminación por compuestos orgánicos volátiles o por biodeterioro.
Los momentos en los que la sacaron de la vitrina y el de instalación en la nueva fueron los más críticos, indicó la conservadora jefe, que consideró un éxito la operación, en la que se siguió un preciso protocolo debido a la fragilidad de la momia, muy sensible a las alteraciones.
Un embalaje muy sofisticado, realizado con un molde específicamente para el traslado, protegió a la momia durante el proceso para evitar peligrosos cambios ambientales y de luz.
«Es un ejemplar único», indicó a Efe el director del MAN, Andrés Carretero, que explicó que la operación llevada a cabo ayer es «como trasladar Las Meninas o El Guernica, no puede haber un solo fallo porque puede suponer un daño irreparable para la pieza".
Por ello, señaló, se hizo con todas las garantías y el personal técnico necesario tras los análisis realizados por el personal del Instituto de Patrimonio Cultural y un ensayo de todo el proceso.
Carretero está convencido de que la momia será un atractivo para todo el público y especialmente para los niños pero destacó el interés del museo en completar así la muestra del desarrollo cultural de la actual España ya que Canarias era la única Comunidad Autónoma que no estaba representada.
Ruth Maicas, del departamento de Prehistoria del MAN, indicó que es muy difícil conocer la fecha de la que data la momia y consideró que queda mucho por investigar en la antropología e historia canaria.
Testimonio de cultura prehispánica
Esta momia, de un hombre adulto y que tras su hallazgo fue enviada al rey Carlos III para el Real Gabinete de Historia Natural por su excepcional estado de conservación, es testimonio de uno de los rasgos más llamativos de la cultura prehispánica en las islas de Tenerife, Gran Canaria y La Palma, que momificaban a miembros destacados de la sociedad y los enterraban en tumbas colectivas en cuevas de difícil acceso, recordó Maicas.
El cuerpo se cubría con pieles de cabra u oveja, y en Gran Canaria se empleaban también tejidos de junco de palma.
El sistema de momificación que se practicaba en las islas Canarias era diferente al de otras culturas y deja visibles más restos del fallecido.
El nuevo espacio dedicado a la arqueología canaria se completa con piezas cerámicas, textiles, ídolos, lascas y otros materiales, además de gráficas, mapas y un audiovisual, que acercan al visitante a la sociedad prehispánica insular.
posted
La momia guanche mejor conservada llega al Museo Arqueológico Nacional
quote:
Madrid, (EFE).- Más de cien años ha permanecido la momia guanche mejor conservada que existe en el Museo de Antropología y de allí ha salido esta mañana para llegar a su nueva casa, el Museo Arqueológico Nacional (MAN), donde será la estrella del nuevo espacio dedicado a la prehistoria canaria.
Con un poema guanche han despedido en el Museo Nacional de Antropología de Madrid a la momia del Barranco de Herques, hallada en 1776 en Tenerife, tras lo que se ha iniciado su traslado al Arqueológico con un estricto protocolo de seguridad para evitar su deterioro.
A su llegada al MAN, seis operarios de una empresa especializada en transporte de obras de arte, embutidos en monos de protección y mascarillas, han realizado el traspaso de la frágil momia de la caja en la que ha sido trasladada a una vitrina especialmente diseñada para mantener las condiciones de conservación idóneas.
Hace unos meses ya se había hecho un simulacro del traslado y colocación de la momia, según ha explicado a Efe la conservadora jefe del Museo, Teresa Gómez Espinosa, que ha relatado como el proceso ha sido muy complejo porque la momia es muy delicada.
La vitrina que la albergará a partir de ahora ha sido especialmente diseñada para mantener las condiciones de conservación idóneas e incorpora complejos dispositivos para análisis y mediciones en su interior con el fin de evitar el riesgo de contaminación por compuestos orgánicos volátiles o por biodeterioro.
Los momentos en los que la han sacado de la vitrina y el de instalación en la nueva son los más críticos, ha indicado la conservadora jefe, que ha considerado un éxito la operación, en la que se ha seguido un preciso protocolo debido a la fragilidad de la momia, muy sensible a las alteraciones.
Un embalaje muy sofisticado, realizado con un molde específicamente para el traslado, ha protegido a la momia durante el proceso para evitar peligrosos cambios ambientales y de luz.
"Es un ejemplar único", ha indicado a Efe el director del MAN, Andrés Carretero, que ha explicado que la operación llevada a cabo hoy es "como trasladar Las Meninas o El Gernica, no puede haber un solo fallo porque puede suponer un daño irreparable para la pieza".
Por ello, ha señalado, se ha hecho con todas las garantías y el personal técnico necesario tras los análisis realizados por el personal del Instituto de Patrimonio Cultural y un ensayo de todo el proceso.
Carretero está convencido de que la momia será un atractivo para todo el público y especialmente para los niños pero ha destacado el interés del museo en completar así la muestra del desarrollo cultural de la actual España ya que Canarias era la única Comunidad Autónoma que no estaba representada.
Ruth Maicas, del departamento de Prehistoria del MAN, ha indicado que es muy difícil conocer la fecha de la que data la momia y ha considerado que queda mucho por investigar en la antropología e historia canaria.
Esta momia, de un hombre adulto y que tras su hallazgo fue enviada al rey Carlos III para el Real Gabinete de Historia Natural por su excepcional estado de conservación, es testimonio de uno de los rasgos más llamativos de la cultura prehispánica en las islas de Tenerife, Gran Canaria y La Palma, que momificaban a miembros destacados de la sociedad y los enterraban en tumbas colectivas en cuevas de difícil acceso, ha recordado Maicas.
El cuerpo se cubría con pieles de cabra u oveja, y en Gran Canaria se empleaban también tejidos de junco de palma.
El sistema de momificación que se practicaba en las islas Canarias era diferente al de otras culturas y deja visibles más restos del fallecido.
El nuevo espacio dedicado a la arqueología canaria se completa con piezas cerámicas, textiles, ídolos, lascas y otros materiales, además de gráficas, mapas y un audiovisual, que acercan al visitante a la sociedad prehispánica insular. EFE
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "non-white" doesn't mean anything
Non-white means non-white. Not white, meaning people of color.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Ah, but to THEM indigenous African includes a white caucasoid if not outright Caucasian Africa, folk THEY hold responsible for all Afr civs bordering the Red Sea and the Mediterranean.
To lose sight of this is to lose the struggle.
The struggle is ongoing. The struggle is continuous.
THEY haven't given up since Napoleon's expedition. Would you give up after a couple years of reports?
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Agreed. In a continuum black white Negros Caucasian is meaningless. Indigenous African is the issue. but great pics.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "non-white" doesn't mean anything
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posted
Don't want you derail your thread. But, Caucasoid and Negroid are indigenous to Africa, Negroid and Caucasoid are found as far as Asia and the Americas. Ask Mike if you don't believe me. Yes, there is a struggle ....of ignorance and misinformation. Inter-African beef is a separate discussion. The science has shown modern Europeans and Turks are NOT indigenous to Africa.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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I have never been to the motherland so I have no idea what an indigenous North African look like. But the data has shown modern Egyptians are the least " African" of peoples that are North of the Sahara. While the whitest of Africans, Tunisians and darker Saharawi's are the purest of North Africans.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Point I am making is, you cannot eye ball and assume because someone has light skin or full lips or straight hair assume they are indigenous or NOT to Africa. There are scientific means of determining who are "recent" Africans or not. A good sign is yes, Africans are predominantly dark skin but there are regions in Africa that is is near the low UV belt. Tunisia comes to mind. Furthermore. Africans will be predominantly tropical in body proportion. But even Bergman stated that does not completely hold true for SSA! Sources cited.
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posted
Ish Gebor, my Spanish is poor. Is the reference to "Efe" unrelated to the Efe Pygmies of the Congo? There are some Pygmy gene lines in the Canarias. The mummy was from Tenerife, where Guanche was spoken; while on some other islands Bimbache was spoken.
- - -
Akka, Morocco may link to the Aka, the Aka Bea(Andamans), the Aka Fula (Lake Malawi Pygmies per Bantu).
Tunisia and Kalahari are subtropical deserts with less UV than the Congo.
posted
My understanding is the pygmy do NOT have tropical body proportions. Bergman...
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "non-white" doesn't mean anything
Non-white means non-white. Not white, meaning people of color.
"people of color" doesn't mean anything
People of color means people of color.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Sure it does.
He just defined his usage.
Yes, all of a sudden lioness doesn't know what people of color means.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: Ish Gebor, my Spanish is poor. Is the reference to "Efe" unrelated to the Efe Pygmies of the Congo? There are some Pygmy gene lines in the Canarias. The mummy was from Tenerife, where Guanche was spoken; while on some other islands Bimbache was spoken.
- - -
Akka, Morocco may link to the Aka, the Aka Bea(Andamans), the Aka Fula (Lake Malawi Pygmies per Bantu).
Tunisia and Kalahari are subtropical deserts with less UV than the Congo.
Tropical body measurements - Pygmy?
Use google translate, it's getting better each time. Eve is in reference to the letter "F". I am not sure if there is any relation to Efe Pygmies of the Congo.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I have never been to the motherland so I have no idea what an indigenous North African look like. But the data has shown modern Egyptians are the least " African" of peoples that are North of the Sahara. While the whitest of Africans, Tunisians and darker Saharawi's are the purest of North Africans.
The Egypt thing is a bit obscure. Because there seems to be a segregation, with decline from North to Southern Egypt. Which is actually historically correct.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Tukuler: "The Sahrawi, or Saharaui are the people of the Western Sahara (the westernmost Sahara desert), in the area of present-day Mauritania, southern Morocco, the Western Sahara territory and extreme southwestern Algeria. The term Sahrawi is frequently used in more of a nationalist than an ethnic sense, particularly relating to the disputes over sovereignty in the Western Sahara"
Sahrawi/Saharaui sounds like close kin to Sharaha(Oman) and thus Tuareg and possibly Tigri and/or Tauri(Crimea).
- - - (OT) At an Andaman islanders website, I found that the name for their 360 islands is Kalapani(black water), which I suspect is linked to Kalahari (similarity of Steatopygia (extended buttocks) in Andaman and KhoiSan females). My guess is that the Andamanese were blended (or ancestrally rooted in) Namakwa KhoiSan and Aka Pygmies, since many tribes in the Andamans had Aka in their names, which I haven't found in other Asian Pygmies. Although physically Pygmy-sized, their architecture was completely different than other Pygmies; lean-tos of (pinnate) Ailanthus leaves, most similar to temporary shelters of the Punan/Penan of Borneo.
Note: I think that Aurochs (wild cattle) of Europe were named for their Ice Age orange/fluffy winter coats - Aur/orange-aurah-aurat(Arab) + och/ox.
Kalahari kala sun/day
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
New pics of the thread header Modern non-'white' Berber [speakers] anyone?
Note: Both Oryx and reindeer make a clicking sound (at their knees or hocks) while walking thru shifting sand or snow.
Note: Steatopyggia (extended buttocks) in Andaman and KhoiSan women and the Queen of Punt - adaptation to walking on dry shifting sand.
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: ^Why are you as a black woman in America confused?
because I think for myself
and when something is ambiguous by nature that is how I call it
So, the translation is that actually don't know, as an "African American black woman". So much for supposedly thinking for yourself. lol too funny.
Are you an idiot? If I said I didn't know something that means I AM thinking for myself. Stop tolling
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: ^Why are you as a black woman in America confused?
because I think for myself
and when something is ambiguous by nature that is how I call it
So, the translation is that actually don't know, as an "African American black woman". So much for supposedly thinking for yourself. lol too funny.
Are you an idiot? If I said I didn't know something that means I AM thinking for myself. Stop tolling
What do you mean by: "thinking for yourself?" Yet, asking stupid questions? lol
As you can see, I can go on for days with these images from the internet...In the meanwhile, you can keep thinking for "yourself". "African American black woman". (sarc) Stop trolling and derailing this beautiful thread.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: New pics of the thread header Modern non-'white' Berber [speakers] anyone?
As you requested.
quote: The Berber-Abidiya region is situated just south of the fifth Nile cataract in Sudan. This project, a joint mission with the Sudanese National Corporation for Antiquities and Museums (NCAM), is focussed on the late Kushite city of Dangeil (third century BC – fourth century AD) and associated cemeteries.
posted
Lovely Chinese page, spreading the message.
quote:
The Berbers are the indigenous inhabitants of Libya and the Sahara. There are numerous tribes found in East Libya, West Libya and across the entire Sahara desert where they have been since the beginning of civilization.
Identification. The name of the country is derived from the Latin Mauretania, meaning "west," which corresponds to the Arab name of North Africa, Maghreb. The Romans referred to the Berber people as Maures.
The French occupied the country in 1860 in close cooperation with Maur religious leaders. Mauritania became a nation after the destruction of the kingdoms of Fouta Toro and Walo Walo and the Arab-Berber emirats of Trarza, Brakna, Taganet, and Adrar. As a result, the country has two main ethnic groups: black Africans and Arab-Berbers. The black African group includes the Fulani, Soninke, and Bambara. The Maurs include the Arab-Berbers (Beydan) and the black Maurs known as Haratin. The Haratins are black Africans who were enslaved by white Maurs. White and black Maurs consider themselves Arab, whereas black Arabs see themselves as African. The most important common denominator is Sunni Islam.
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photographed along the Atlas Mountains in 1983, near the villages of Tamtatouchte, Ouarzazate, and Erfoud.
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"Rapid and catastrophic environmental changes in the Holocene and human response" first joint meeting of IGCP 490 and ICSU Environmental catastrophes in Mauritania, the desert and the coast January 4-18, 2004
Field conference departing from Atar Atar, Mauritania
Organizers Suzanne Leroy, Aziz Ballouche, Mohamed Salem Ould Sabar, and Sylvain Philip (Hommes et Montagnes travel agency)
View Abstracts Conference Homepage
What is the impact of Holocene climatic changes on human societies: analysis of Neolithic population dynamic and dietary customs. by Jousse, Helene
UMR Paléoenvironnements et Paléobiosphère, Université Claude Bernard Lyon 1, Villeurbanne, France.
quote: The reconstruction of human cultural patterns in relation to environmental variations is an essential topic in modern archaeology.
In western Africa, a first Holocene humid phase beginning c. 11,000 years BP is known from the analysis of lacustrine sediments (Riser, 1983 ; Gasse, 2002). The monsoon activity increased and reloaded hydrological networks (like the Saharan depressions) leading to the formation of large palaeolakes. The colonisation of the Sahara by vegetation, animals and humans was then possible essentially around the topographic features like Ahaggar (fig. 1). But since 8,000 years BP, the climate began to oscillate towards a new arid episode, and disturbed the ecosystems (Jolly et al., 1998; Jousse, 2003).
First, the early Neolithics exploited the wild faunas, by hunting and fishing, and occupied small sites without any trace of settlement in relatively high latitudes. Then, due to the climatic deterioration, they had to move southwards.
This context leads us to consider the notion of refugia. Figure 1 presents the main zones colonised by humans in western Africa. When the fossil valleys of Azaouad, Tilemsi and Azaouagh became dry, after ca. 5,000 yr BP, humans had to find refuges in the Sahelian belt, and gathered around topographic features (like the Adrar des Iforas, and the Mauritanians Dhar) and major rivers, especially the Niger Interior Delta, called the Mema.
Whereas the Middle Neolithic is relatively well-known, the situation obviously becomes more complex and less information is available concerning local developments in late Neolithic times.. Only some cultural affiliations existed between the populations of Araouane and Kobadi in the Mema. Elsewhere, and especially along the Atlantic coast and in the Dhar Tichitt and Nema, the question of the origin of Neolithic peopling remains unsolved.
A study of the palaeoenvironment of those refugia was performed by analysing antelopes ecological requirements (Jousse, submitted). It shows that even if the general climate was drying from 5,000 – 4,000 yr BP in the Sahara and Sahel, edaphic particularities of these refugia allowed the persistence of local gallery forest or tree savannas, where humans and animals could have lived (fig. 2). At the same time, cultural innovation like agriculture, cattle breeding, social organisation in villages are recognised. For the moment, the relation between the northern and the southern populations are not well known.
How did humans react against aridity? Their dietary behaviour are followed along the Holocene, in relation with the environment, demographic expansion, settling process and emergence of productive activities.
- The first point concerns the pastoralism. The progression of cattle pastoralism from eastern Africa (fig. 3) is recorded from 7,400 yr BP in the Ahaggar and only from 4,400 yr BP in western Africa. This trend of breeding activities and human migrations can be related to climatic evolution. Since forests are infested by Tse-Tse flies preventing cattle breeding, the reduction of forest in the low-Sahelian belt freed new areas to be colonised. Because of the weakness of the archaeozoological material available, it is difficult to know what was the first pattern of cattle exploitation.
- A second analysis was carried on the resources balance, between fishing-hunting-breeding activities. The diagrams on figures 4 and 5 present the number of species of wild mammals, fishes and domestic stock, from a literature compilation. Fishing is known around Saharan lakes and in the Niger. Of course, it persisted with the presence of water points and even in historical times, fishing became a specialised activity among population living in the Niger Interior Delta. Despite the general environmental deterioration, hunting does not decrease thanks to the upholding of the vegetation in these refugia (fig. 2). On the contrary, it is locally more diversified, because at this local scale, the game diversity is closely related to the vegetation cover. Hence, the arrival of pastoral activities was not prevalent over other activities in late Neolithic, when diversifying resources appeared as an answer to the crisis.
This situation got worse in the beginning of historic times, from 2,000 yr BP, when intense settling process and an abrupt aridity event (Lézine & Casanova, 1989) led to a more important perturbation of wild animals communities. They progressively disappeared from the human diet, and the cattle, camel and caprin breeding prevailed as today.
Gasse, F., 2002. Diatom-inferred salinity and carbonate oxygen isotopes in Holocene waterbodies of the western Sahara and Sahel (Africa). Quaternary Science Reviews: 717-767.
Jolly, D., Harrison S. P., Damnati B. and Bonnefille R. , 1998. Simulated climate and biomes of Africa during the late Quaternary : Comparison with pollen and lake status data. Quaternary Science Review 17: 629-657.
Jousse H., 2003. Impact des variations environnementales sur la structure des communautés mammaliennes et l'anthropisation des milieux: exemple des faunes holocènes du Sahara occidental. Thèse de l’Université Lyon 1, 405 p.
Jousse H, 2003. Using archaeological fauna to calibrate palaeovegetation: the Holocene Bovids of western Africa. Submit to Quaternary Science Reviews in november 2003, référence: QSR 03-333.
Lézine, A. M. and J. Casanova, 1989. Pollen and hydrological evidence for the interpretation of past climate in tropical West Africa during the Holocene. Quaternary Science Review 8: 45-55.
Riser, J., 1983. Les phases lacustres holocènes. Sahara ou Sahel ? Quaternaire récent du bassin de Taoudenni (Mali). Marseille: 65-86.
quote:Firstly, E-M81 is the most common haplogroup in North Africa showing its highest concentrations in Northwestern Africa (76 % in Saharawis in Morocco (Arredi et al., 2004)) with cline frequencies decreasing eastward: Algeria (45 %), Libya (34 %) and Egypt (10 %) (Robino et al., 2008; Triki-Fendri et al., submitted; Arredi et al., 2004).
Besides, Ottoni et al., (2011) have reported that E-M81 appear to constitute a common paternal genetic matrix in the Tuareg populations where it was encountered at high frequency (89 %).
Hence, the distribution of this haplogroup in Africa closely matches the present area of Berber-speaking population’s allocation on the continent, suggesting a close haplogroup-ethnic group parallelism (Bosch et al., 2001; Cruciani et al., 2002; 2004; Arredi et al., 2004; Fadhlaoui-Zid et al., 2011; Bekada et al., 2013). However, knowing that the Berber dialects have been replaced by Arabic in North African populations, carriers of E-M81 haplogroup are currently Arab-speaking peoples whose ancestors were Berber-speaking.
Outside of Africa, E-M81 is almost absent in the Middle East and in Europe (with the exception of Iberia and Sicily). The presence of E-M81 in the Iberian Peninsula (12 % in southern Portugal) (Cruciani et al., 2004) has been attributed to trans-Mediterranean contacts linked to the Islamic influence, since it is typically Berber (Bosch et al., 2001; Semino et al., 2004; Beleza et al., 2006; Alvarez et al., 2009; Cruciani et al., 2007; Trombetta et al., 2011).
—S Triki-Fendri, A Rebai 2015
Synthetic review on the genetic relatedness between North Africa and Arabia deduced from paternal lineage distributions
As stated before, you have nothing valuable to contribute here. You post stuff you don't know nothing about. lol smh
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:The sandstone escarpment of the Dhar Tichitt in South-Central Mauritania was inhabited by Neolithic agropastoral communities for approximately one and half millennium during the Late Holocene, from ca. 4000 to 2300 BP. The absence of prior evidence of human settlement points to the influx of mobile herders moving away from the “drying” Sahara towards more humid lower latitudes. These herders took advantage of the peculiarities of the local geology and environment and succeeded in domesticating bulrush millet – Pennisetum sp. The emerging agropastoral subsistence complex had conflicting and/or complementary requirements depending on circumstances. In the long run, the social adjustment to the new subsistence complex, shifting site location strategies, nested settlement patterns and the rise of more encompassing polities appear to have been used to cope with climatic hazards in this relatively circumscribed area. An intense arid spell in the middle of the first millennium BC triggered the collapse of the whole Neolithic agropastoral system and the abandonment of the areas. These regions, resettled by sparse oasis-dwellers populations and iron-using communities starting from the first half of the first millennium AD, became part of the famous Ghana “empire”, the earliest state in West African history.
quote:Firstly, E-M81 is the most common haplogroup in North Africa showing its highest concentrations in Northwestern Africa (76 % in Saharawis in Morocco (Arredi et al., 2004)) with cline frequencies decreasing eastward: Algeria (45 %), Libya (34 %) and Egypt (10 %) (Robino et al., 2008; Triki-Fendri et al., submitted; Arredi et al., 2004).
Besides, Ottoni et al., (2011) have reported that E-M81 appear to constitute a common paternal genetic matrix in the Tuareg populations where it was encountered at high frequency (89 %).
Hence, the distribution of this haplogroup in Africa closely matches the present area of Berber-speaking population’s allocation on the continent, suggesting a close haplogroup-ethnic group parallelism (Bosch et al., 2001; Cruciani et al., 2002; 2004; Arredi et al., 2004; Fadhlaoui-Zid et al., 2011; Bekada et al., 2013). However, knowing that the Berber dialects have been replaced by Arabic in North African populations, carriers of E-M81 haplogroup are currently Arab-speaking peoples whose ancestors were Berber-speaking.
Outside of Africa, E-M81 is almost absent in the Middle East and in Europe (with the exception of Iberia and Sicily). The presence of E-M81 in the Iberian Peninsula (12 % in southern Portugal) (Cruciani et al., 2004) has been attributed to trans-Mediterranean contacts linked to the Islamic influence, since it is typically Berber (Bosch et al., 2001; Semino et al., 2004; Beleza et al., 2006; Alvarez et al., 2009; Cruciani et al., 2007; Trombetta et al., 2011).
—S Triki-Fendri, A Rebai 2015
Again, E-M81 is found in the the Maghreb and Iberia and Sicily although nearly none in Siwa But this thread is not about M81, read the title of it again
So you posting this is response to the pictures of two men of whose DNA you know nothing is completely and totally irrelevant to the thread topic
Again the topic of this racially divisive thread is non-white berbers, that has nothing to do with DNA haplogroups
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Firstly, E-M81 is the most common haplogroup in North Africa showing its highest concentrations in Northwestern Africa (76 % in Saharawis in Morocco (Arredi et al., 2004)) with cline frequencies decreasing eastward: Algeria (45 %), Libya (34 %) and Egypt (10 %) (Robino et al., 2008; Triki-Fendri et al., submitted; Arredi et al., 2004).
Besides, Ottoni et al., (2011) have reported that E-M81 appear to constitute a common paternal genetic matrix in the Tuareg populations where it was encountered at high frequency (89 %).
Hence, the distribution of this haplogroup in Africa closely matches the present area of Berber-speaking population’s allocation on the continent, suggesting a close haplogroup-ethnic group parallelism (Bosch et al., 2001; Cruciani et al., 2002; 2004; Arredi et al., 2004; Fadhlaoui-Zid et al., 2011; Bekada et al., 2013). However, knowing that the Berber dialects have been replaced by Arabic in North African populations, carriers of E-M81 haplogroup are currently Arab-speaking peoples whose ancestors were Berber-speaking.
Outside of Africa, E-M81 is almost absent in the Middle East and in Europe (with the exception of Iberia and Sicily). The presence of E-M81 in the Iberian Peninsula (12 % in southern Portugal) (Cruciani et al., 2004) has been attributed to trans-Mediterranean contacts linked to the Islamic influence, since it is typically Berber (Bosch et al., 2001; Semino et al., 2004; Beleza et al., 2006; Alvarez et al., 2009; Cruciani et al., 2007; Trombetta et al., 2011).
—S Triki-Fendri, A Rebai 2015
Again, E-M81 is found in the the Maghreb and Iberia and Sicily although nearly none in Siwa But this thread is not about M81, read the title of it again
So you posting this is response to the pictures of two men of whose DNA you know nothing is completely and totally irrelevant to the thread topic
Again the topic of this racially divisive thread is non-white berbers, that has nothing to do with DNA haplogroups
Again dumb piece of ****. E-M81 is called the Berber GENE! Berbers are local to Africa. ancestral to E-M81 is E-V68. The devisions started when Berbers of darker completion were excluded, and "magically" merely were slaves. We now have traced to origin. lol And it was all a LIE!!! But again, your divisive mindset looks for excuses as usually, as if it means something? lol
E-V68 is found in the genetic lineage of the Beja.
Check this clown.
quote:
Within E-M35, there are striking parallels between two haplogroups, E-V68 and E-V257. Both contain a lineage which has been frequently observed in Africa (E-M78 and E-M81, respectively) [6], [8], [10], [13]–[16] and a group of undifferentiated chromosomes that are mostly found in southern Europe (Table S2). An expansion of E-M35 carriers, possibly from the Middle East as proposed by other Authors [14], and split into two branches separated by the geographic barrier of the Mediterranean Sea, would explain this geographic pattern. However, the absence of E-V68* and E-V257* in the Middle East (Table S2) makes a maritime spread between northern Africa and southern Europe a more plausible hypothesis. A detailed analysis of the Y chromosomal microsatellite variation associated with E-V68 and E-V257 could help in gaining a better understanding of the likely timing and place of origin of these two haplogroups.
--Beniamino Trombetta, Fulvio Cruciani et al. (2011)
A New Topology of the Human Y Chromosome Haplogroup E1b1 (E-P2) Revealed through the Use of Newly Characterized Binary Polymorphisms
There ya' go, pathetic racist devisionary individual!
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
"Again, E-M81 is found in the the Maghreb and Iberia and Sicily" Duh lol smh
"Siwa: But this thread is not about M81, read the title of it again". lol smh
I posted on Siwa Berbers before. Berbers from Central Africa carry they same genetic traits as Siwa Berbers. So what the f... you're talking about?
This thread is about non-white Berbers. The kind of Berbers you ignore and claim to be merely recent slave descendants. You've promoted this division for six years straight. lol
Remember, it was you who came here derailing the threat. None else!
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
You are trying to derail the thread with DNA. That is off topic. But worse you don't have genetic tests for any of the people you or I have posted pictures of in this thread.
Again, this is a picture thread introducing DNA charts and then showing pictures of people in the same post whom you don't no the DNA is highly disingenuous.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: You are trying to derail the thread with DNA. That is off topic. But worse you don't have genetic tests for any of the people you or I have posted pictures of in this thread.
Again, this is a picture thread introducing DNA charts and then showing pictures of people in the same post whom you don't no the DNA is highly disingenuous.
Clown, it is you who is derailing the thread with that slave theory. Nothing you posted had to do with a valuable contribution. So I posted on DNA to show the origin of the Berbers. Clown.
I know the ethnic origin of the people I post, unlike you the retarded one.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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