quote: list the American sociological racial descriptors
Oh god, evasive to the last. You revealed that you knew the answer to the question earlier:
quote: like cass pointed out relagating people to one of three racial groups, black, white or asian as Americans do is unscientific and people along a cline may not fit neatly into these three boxes(note Brazil has a differnt classification system)
It's ironic. In the past you, also under the name 'element' were arguing against race Now you are asking me in essence "but the dude is black right?"
with the right hat, garb and lingo, even cass could increase his blackness
Come along lioness, don't play dumb.
Posts: 805 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2013
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The common origin of most African populations (Yoruba, Somali, Ancient Egyptians, etc) and language families in North-Eastern Africa after the OOA migrations of non-Africans.
Then people from their North-Eastern origin in Africa moved up following the monsoon rains, plants and animals and occupied the Green Sahara from about the Atlantic coast to the Nile for more than 3000 years. We're only in the years 2000s, so that's a long time.
Then people from the Green Saharan culture (Wavy line pottery culture) migrated to different regions like in West Africa, along the Nile, along the Niger river, etc in search for greener pastures when the Green Sahara was drying up.
Along the Nile the scarcity of land (around it) led up to conflicts between ethnic groups and then thus the need for unifications between various ethnic groups. Narmer was the one who was successful at it.
Narmer, 1st King of Ancient Egypt
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
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posted
Considering current genetic results (Ramses III=E1b1a, BMJ, JAMA, DNA Tribes), I would say Ancient Egyptians were mostly from the African Y-DNA A, B and E haplogroups, MtDNA L haplogroups. There was probably some non-African haplogroups (F descendants, M/N descendants) but the current genetic results suggest that it was minimal (especially at the foundation stage), so does archaeological studies.
Along the years, the Ancient Egyptian empire grew in importance and became more and more cosmopolitan. So more foreign migrants eventually settle up there, in neighboring deserts as nomads, or straight up conquer it like with the Hyksos (Aamu/Asians) or the Assyrians, Greeks, etc in later periods.
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posted
The facts of the matter are that your literal interpretation DNA Tribes' MLI scores have been blown to smithereens and that you've been tapdancing to the rhythm of the inconvenient data in my posts ever since you ventured beyond your clown obsession with scouring the internet for pictures of AE statues with stereotypical African facial features, to anthropology.
When all is said and done, you can't produce a shred of evidence that refutes an origin of the base of the AE population in the UP Sahara.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
What is your datasets for AEian are Up Sahara?
So far the genetic material for ALL is aligned with the homeland of the stereotypical Negro ie SSA. The " Caucasoid" characteristics are found SSA. The Language is Afrasan.?
Rmt came from the south. Mountain of the moon ?
So again , what is you point?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Afrasan IS Saharan in origin, as per the lack of names of certain tropical African animals in the proto-language as well as linguistic traces of it in the Levant and Mesopotamia in pre-Semitic times and affinity with the language families within Nostratic. Did you read Hodgson? The Ethio-Somali component is distant to all considered populations but it has the most molecular affinity with North Africans and Arabs and was NOT contracted in SSA judging by these and other characteristics. The same Ethio- Somali component is shared with a segment of the Neolithic genome of Stuttgart, suggesting that UP E-M78 carrying Egyptians who migrated to Europe belonged, at least partly, to this clade.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
My modus operandi and motto: A set of pro black lies is worse for Afrikans than the hateful Eurocentric lies of the 18th 19th and 20th centuries still perpetuated today.
"Just the facts ma'am." - Sgt Friday -
Anyway, after filtering out the baby macho, this thread presents interesting reading from all sides even if much of it is outdated obsolete outmoded and useless.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
All African Languages seem to be Nilo-Saharan in Origin. That includes Bantu, Click and Afrasian(Ehret)
Quote “Did you read Hodgson? The Ethio-Somali component is distant to all considered populations but it has the most molecular affinity with North Africans and Arabs and was NOT contracted in SSA judging” ????
Are you making stuff up again Swenet? Details? The only thing we got so far are Amarnas and Rameses III, Screaming mummy is their STR and probably Haplogroup. Where did you get that BS story-link with Arabs and North Africans. Are you making stuff up again my man?
WTF are you talking about Stuttgart? The SNP profile of the Amarna’s and Ram III was never published. Are making stuff up again Swenet?
“”E-M78 carrying Egyptians who migrated to Europe belonged, at least partly, to this clade””” More BS from Swenet. What is your problem? “Egyptians” did not migrate to Europe. North Africans did; and long before the inception of AE.
I leave you guys to play and you fugk it up……
Stop blowing smoke. I smell BS a mile away.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Afrasan IS Saharan in origin, as per the lack of names of certain tropical African animals in the proto-language as well as linguistic traces of it in the Levant and Mesopotamia in pre-Semitic times and affinity with the language families within Nostratic. Did you read Hodgson? The Ethio-Somali component is distant to all considered populations but it has the most molecular affinity with North Africans and Arabs and was NOT contracted in SSA judging by these and other characteristics. The same Ethio- Somali component is shared with a segment of the Neolithic genome of Stuttgart, suggesting that UP E-M78 carrying Egyptians who migrated to Europe belonged, at least partly, to this clade.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Listen man...I don't have time for games. Go play with someone else.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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1. All African Languages seem to be Nilo-Saharan in Origin. That includes Bantu, Click and Afrasian(Ehret
2. Swenet is lying about the genetic link between North Africa ns and AEians. The SNP profile was never disclosed for the AEians
3. The only disclosed clade of AEians was E1b1a and NOT E1b1b as Swenet lied about 4. The STR profile puts AEians clearly with SSA and NOT North Africans. They were NOT M-E78 5. The actual sampled population closest to AEians are Somali populations bordering Kenya and the Great Lakes and groups in Sudan 6. THE MLI is closest to South Africans and Great Lakes.
7. “Caucasoids” features are found through out SSA.
Ubber Africa!
Any questions? Oh I am not saying North Africans are NOT Africans. Don’t misunderstand.
Prove me wrong….anyone.? ALL takers
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Listen -up. I am not disagreeing with Swenet that sub-staructure exist within Africa and that one of these sub-structure were OOA….no!! OOA(s)!. But to link AEians and North African because of a thin nose is bodering on the ludicrou.
Ubber Africa!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
I did my part when broaching this thread. Negro and negroid phenotype divisions are just pre-colonialist inventions to divide Africans. Africans never used such conventions themselves though they did certainly see their variety from region to region and even within a region.
The facts I referred to are about the Mountains of the Moon myth.
Man u r just 2 much 2 take. In search of enemies just. looking for a fight, and at your age no less.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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C'mon gramps, you're just making ish up now. Half of that I've never said.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
There were at least four big expansions out of the wider ancient Egyptian Libyan, etc area that allow us to get an idea of what the major lineages in northeastern Africa were:
--Proto-Berber --Proto-Semitic --Epi-Palaeolthic out of Northeast Africa --Naqada era colonization of southern Levantine territory
The lineages these Nile Valley associated migrations coincide with in the literature are respectively
^Somewhere within those time frames (likely during the expansion of proto-Semitic, but I can't prove it due to a lack of research), R-V88 and a Maghrebi branch of M1 (i.e. M1b) and also left Egypt as evidenced by the relict Dead Sea Jordanian population. Can you complete this list using known coalescent ages from the literature and demonstrate that what I said was false by redecorating it with SSA specific (i.e. non- Saharan) lineages? Put up or shut up.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
"In search of enemies just." Fruedian? I read it when I was in my early 70's(wink).
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Ha! Ha! HA! Ha! Did you make this up? SMH. Youngsters!!!
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: There were at least three big expansions inside and out of ancient Egypt that allow us to get an idea of what the major lineages in Northeastern Africa were:
--Proto-Berber --Proto-Semitic --Epi-Palaeolthic --Naqada era colonization of Levantine cities
The lineages these migrations coincide with in the literature are respectively
^Somewhere within those time frames (likely during the expansion of proto-Semitic, but I can't prove it), R-V88 and a Maghrebi branch of M1 (i.e. M1b) and also left Egypt as evidenced by the Dead Sea Jordanian population. Can you redecorate this list with using known coalescent ages from the the literature and demonstrate that what I said was false? Put up or shut up.
I have to train you like my 6 and 7 year old.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote: Originally posted by Swenet: Can you complete this list using known coalescent ages from the literature and demonstrate that what I said was false by redecorating it with SSA specific (i.e. non- Saharan) lineages? Put up or shut up.
Xyyman: (Crickets)
I think I've made my point. Or rather, you did it for me.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Obenga made it clear that AfroAsiatic does not exist and you can not reconstruct the Proto-language.
This is true. Ehret (1995) and Orel/Stolbova (1995) were attempts at comparing Proto-AfroAsiatic. The most interesting fact about these works is that they produced different results. If AfroAsiatic existed they should have arrived at similar results. The major failur of these works is that there is too much synononymy. For example, the Proto-AfroAsiatic synonym for bird has 52 synonyms this is far too many for a single term and illustrates how the researchers just correlated a number of languages to produce a proto-form.
Radcliffe commenting on these text observed:
quote: Both sources reconstruct lexical relationships in the attested languages as going back to derivational relationships in the proto-language. (In at least one case OS also reconstruct a derivational relationship-- an Arabic singular-plural pair qarya(tun), qura(n)-- as going back to lexical ones in Proto-Afroasiatic, reconstructions 1568, 1589.) E does this in a thorough-going way and the result is proto-language in which the basic vocabulary consists of a set of polysemous verbal roots with abstract and general meanings, while verbs with more specific meanings, and almost all nouns are derived by suffixation. Further all consonants in this language can serve as suffixes. I would argue that both points are violations of the uniformitarian principle. In general the underived, basic vocabulary of a language and specific and concrete, while abstract words are formed by derivation. Further it is rare for the full consonant inventory of a language to be used in its productive derivational morphology. Finally, given the well-known homorganic cooccurence restrictions on Afroasiatic roots (Greenberg 1950, Bender 1974), each suffix would have to have at least one allomorph at a different point of articulation and a hideously complex system of dissimilation rules would be needed to account for their distribution. E’s justification for this is revealing “With respect to triconsonantal roots in Semitic, a[n] ... explanation of the third consonant as lexicalized pre-proto-Semitic suffixal morphemes has now been put forward (Ehret 1989).... It has been applied here without apology because, quite simply it works.” This is the worst possible argument in favor of the hypothesis. As the above calculations have shown, such a procedure should indeed work quite well as a way of generating random noise.
Orel, Vladimir and Olga V. Stolbova. 1995. Hamito-Semitic Etymological Dictionary: Materials for a reconstruction. E.J. Brill. Leiden.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: I did my part when broaching this thread. Negro and negroid phenotype divisions are just pre-colonialist inventions to divide Africans. Africans never used such conventions themselves though they did certainly see their variety from region to region and even within a region.
The facts I referred to are about the Mountains of the Moon myth.
Man u r just 2 much 2 take. In search of enemies just. looking for a fight, and at your age no less.
Granted the Greco-Romans relate the Egyptian tradition of coming from the the Mountains of the Moon. Given the fact that many of the founders of Egypt came from the Saharan Highlands which are southwest of Egypt, the Saharan Highlands may be the Mountains of the Moon.
The first domesticated animals, plants and religious ideas are found in the Sahara not East Africa. Moreover, the majority of elements in Egyptian society are found first in the Sahara southwest of what was to become ancient Egypt. None of these elements can be found in East Africa or ancient Egypt.
Look at the map, the sites for the earliest ceramics are all West of ancient Egypt. The same is true for the first evidence of animal and plant domestication.
.
. Because the speakers of Negro-Egyptian share the names for most plants and animals indicate that before they separated they had already invented pottery and domesticated most plants and animals.
There is no evidence of animal and plant domestication in East Africa or ancient Egypt, only the Sahara. . It was in the Sahara that the first African civilization originated: the Maa Confederation. It was after the fall of this civilization and the drying up of the Sahara, that people began to migrate into the Nile Valley.
posted
Busy man......and intellectually boring. i don't respond to hypothetical. Made up BS. If you want to discuss the data. I am game.
proto-this! and proto-that!
SMH. punk! Ha!
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote: Originally posted by Swenet: Can you complete this list using known coalescent ages from the literature and demonstrate that what I said was false by redecorating it with SSA specific (i.e. non- Saharan) lineages? Put up or shut up.
Xyyman: (Crickets)
I think I've made my point. Or rather, you did it for me.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Arabia is an extension of Africa. Don't believe me? ask DNATribes.
I will save the best for last. Ha!
I own this!
Quote: ‘’’’Because these components are found in all studied Aegean and West Asian regions, they might to some degree reflect traces of EEF populations ***ANCESTRAL to both ****Europeans and West Asians.’’’’
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Dr Winters got the "Mountain of the Moon" covered.
Hit me up if you have any questions?
AEians are NOT directly related to North Africans(Amazigh) and Horners per se albeit they are all Africans.
AEians closest AFRICAN relatives, based upon actuals data and not made up BS by Swenet, are peoples of the Great lakes(Somali/Kenyans-not Ethiopians)) and Sudan, Southern Africans and West Africans. All are SSA.
I am not saying Amazigh are not indigenous and have deep cultural connection to the Heart Land.
Stop BSing Swenet!!!!!
Ubber Africa!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Notice what DNAtribes did? They have a conflicted mind. Total confused and unsure how to deal with the data they are discovering.
They agree that EEF source population is North Africa but leave it out of their chart. They are afriad to place EEF in Africa. EEF should be place IN Africa also. But instead they only have EEF in Arabia.
Instead they extend Africa into Arabia they placed EEF IN Arabia.
Tsk! Tsk! White people! schizoids
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by tropicals redacted: Lioness says:
quote: list the American sociological racial descriptors
Oh god, evasive to the last. You revealed that you knew the answer to the question earlier:
quote: like cass pointed out relagating people to one of three racial groups, black, white or asian as Americans do is unscientific and people along a cline may not fit neatly into these three boxes(note Brazil has a differnt classification system)
It's ironic. In the past you, also under the name 'element' were arguing against race Now you are asking me in essence "but the dude is black right?"
with the right hat, garb and lingo, even cass could increase his blackness
Come along lioness, don't play dumb.
quote:Originally posted by tropicals redacted:
How do you think most Americans would describe him, using sociological racial descriptors? [/QB]
you think not picking a race for this guy is "playing dumb"
you want me to pick a race for this guy
I won't do it
Picking a race for this guy is arbitrary. That means you can do it. That means you don't need me to do it for you or hide behind the facade of how "most Americans would describe him, using sociological racial descriptors"
Be a man and pick a race for this guy if that's what's so important to you
you don't need me to hold your hand
read the above lioness quote again
" relagating people to one of three racial groups, black, white or asian as Americans do is unscientific and people along a cline may not fit neatly into these three boxes"
so doing so I consider stupid. so it's foolish of you to think I will do what I just finished saying was stupid to do
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote: Originally posted by Swenet: --Proto-Berber, E-M81 --Proto-Semitic, E-M123, E-M34, M1a --Epi-Palaeolthic out of Northeast Africa, E-M78, E-V68, L2a1k, L1b1a8, M1a, U6, E-Z827 --Naqada era colonization of southern Levantine territory, ?
^Somewhere within those time frames (likely during the expansion of proto-Semitic, but I can't prove it due to the lack of research), R-V88 and a Maghrebi branch of M1 (i.e. M1b) also left Egypt as evidenced by the relict Dead Sea Jordanian population.
Can you complete this list using known coalescent ages from the literature and demonstrate that what I said was false by redecorating it with SSA specific (i.e. non- Saharan) lineages? Put up or shut up.
quote: you think not picking a race for this guy is "playing dumb"
you want me to pick a race for this guy
I won't do it
Oh dear.
Let's be clear, I'm not asking you to pick a 'race', I'm asking you to give your sense of what most Americans would describe him as. You might disagree with what I sense you know to be the answer, but that doesn't preclude you from answering.
Again, you did raise American racial categories when you referenced the South Asian man: You wrote:
quote: I'm not sure if most Americans would call this Indian man "a black man" although they might say he had black skin if asked what color he was I'm not sure if most Americans would call this Indian man "a black man"
Suddenly, when asked how most Americans would describe the guy in question, whom you suggest is 'mixed', you evade and tantrum. It's quite telling that you want to run when you know that American racial perceptions are disruptive to whatever lies behind your 'mixed' agenda.
It's funny. Apparently Cass is able to acknowledge and work with the use of sociological categories in terms of how they're applied to the ancient Egyptians- and we know how hard he fought against that - but for some reason, in the case of the individual we're discussing, you dig your heels in.
Could you maybe though answer the question with regards to these populations?
quote:Originally posted by tropicals redacted: American racial perceptions are disruptive to whatever lies behind your 'mixed' agenda.
It's funny. Apparently Cass is able to acknowledge and work with the use of sociological categories in terms of how they're applied to the ancient Egyptians- and we know how hard he fought against that - but for some reason, in the case of the individual we're discussing, you dig your heels in.
you are one of those people that likes to force mixed people to choose a so called race
and you tell these people they have an "agenda" if they don't want to do it when it's you with the agenda
and you try to do it in a scientific discussion which is even less appropriate
My answer about this guy is the same as what I said about the Indian guy
I'm not sure if most Americans would call this "a black man" People are confused by people like this you don't fit neatly into the sterotypes If asked what race this guy is they might say "An Arab" "Mixed" "black" or "Indian" post the photo in some mainstream forum and say "what race is this guy" and see what happens. Don't post any of the other photos so the poll is unbiased
You should have learned this lesson already, the whole inquiry is arbitrary bullshyt
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
This is the Ancient DNA of Ancient Egyptian mummies posted by Beyoku. There's no way to know if those are true or not, it could be fake. Even if true, which is not proven, we must wonder if they are representatives of Ancient Egyptians as a whole. But I like using them as examples because they show a bit what I think.
So Swenet, Truthcentic or Beyoku himself, shouldn't have problem when I say:
quote: Considering current genetic results (Ramses III=E1b1a, BMJ, JAMA, DNA Tribes), I would say Ancient Egyptians were mostly from the African Y-DNA A, B and E haplogroups, MtDNA L haplogroups. There was probably some non-African haplogroups (F descendants, M/N descendants) but the current genetic results suggest that it was minimal (especially at the foundation stage), so does archaeological studies.
Along the years, the Ancient Egyptian empire grew in importance and became more and more cosmopolitan. So more foreign migrants eventually settle up there, in neighboring deserts as nomads, or straight up conquer it like with the Hyksos (Aamu/Asians) or the Assyrians, Greeks, etc in later periods.
Of course I based my analysis of the BMJ, JAMA and DNA Tribes results (Ramesses 3=E1b1a, autosomal STR) as well as other archaeological data. But Beyoku's preview study is what I imagine the situation to be in general:
That is mostly people from the African Y-DNA A, B and E haplogroups and mtDNA L.
Some specimens in Beyoku's preview are from the non-African J, R, T haplogroups but it's a minority and they are accompanied by the African L haplogroups. In general, it's mostly from the African Y-DNA A, B and E haplogroups, MtDNA L.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
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posted
I don’t where to begin to reposnd to this BS.
@ Beyoku. Did you allow him to post this shyt? Did you read this before he posted it?
The only provable thing in this “made-up” fantasy post by your boy is there is a relict population of R-V88 in the Dead Sea area. Everything else is pure conjecture and speculation in the mind of Swenet. I am not ARTU.
---- There were at least FOUR BIG EXPANSIONS(bull shyt) out of the wider ancient Egyptian Libyan, etc area that allow us to get an idea of what the major lineages in northeastern Africa were: WHAT ARE THESE Proto-Swenet)Ha! Ha! ? --Proto-Berber --Proto-Semitic --Epi-Palaeolthic out of Northeast Africa --Naqada era colonization of southern Levantine territory
The lineages these Nile Valley associated migrations coincide with in the LITERATURE (What literature?)are respectively
--E-M81 --E-M123, E-M34, M1a --E-M78, E-V68, L2a1k, L1b1a8, M1a, U6, E-Z827 --? (M1 is NOT found in Arabia Dick that is why Kivilsid concluded was not backmigration for SE Asia) ^Somewhere within those time frames (likely during the expansion of proto-Semitic, but I can't prove it due to a lack of research), R-V88 and a Maghrebi branch of M1 (i.e. M1b) and also left Egypt as evidenced by the relict Dead Sea Jordanian population. Can you complete this list using known coalescent ages from the literature and demonstrate that what I said was false by redecorating it with SSA specific (i.e. non- Saharan) lineages? Put up or shut up.
----
What a load of crap Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
So, let me get this right. I challenge you to redecorate the list and you merely nag on and on about how wrong you think it is? LMAO. What are you waiting for, gramps? Your nursing lady? Redo the list already. Plenty of research on the lineages that expanded from the wider Egyptian/Sudanese area into the Levant, and their associated dates.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Can you complete this list using known coalescent ages from the literature and demonstrate that what I said was false by redecorating it with SSA specific (i.e. non- Saharan) lineages? Put up or shut up.
Let's face it, gramps. You're way out of your league here. You should stick to bingo and knitting or whatever daytime activities they do where you stay . The moment you're asked to make a useful post you're sh!tting yourself.
This is too easy. You expose yourself. Don't even have to do anything other than challenging you to put money where your mouth is and sit back to see you plunge into your trademark denialist rants, which typically occur whenever your incompetence is exposed.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Ha! Ha! Yeah! Yeah! I own this. I am amused not amazed by your made-up BS proto this and that. epi this and epi that.
There are only two studies I know of that has "live data" of the Neolithics in the Levant.
1. Eva Fernandez who PhD Thesis observed African mtDNA L in Iberia and her later work oberved L also in the Levant,
2. Another Fernandez piece - 2014.
Ancient DNA Analysis of 8000 B.C. Near Eastern Farmers Supports an Early Neolithic Pioneer Maritime Colonization of Mainland Europe through Cyprus and the Aegean Islands - Eva Fernandez(June2014)
Love hearing yourself talk huh? I am not inmpressed. The gay tyrant.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote: you are one of those people that likes to force mixed people to choose a so called race
I am? Do you have any evidence of that? That I like to ‘force mixed people to choose a so called race'? Provide evidence of this or retract.
quote: and you tell these people they have an "agenda" if they don't want to do it
I do? Provide evidence of this or, again, retract.
quote: when it's you with the agenda
Evidence or retract.
quote: and you try to do it in a scientific discussion which is even less appropriate
Says the arch race baiter(s) with 20,000 plus posts under their belt(s). To repeat, you initially referred to American perceptions of race regarding the South Asian man. Why the angst?
quote: My answer about this guy is the same as what I said about the Indian guy I'm not sure if most Americans would call this "a black man" People are confused by people like this you don't fit neatly into the sterotypes If asked what race this guy is they might say "An Arab" "Mixed" "black" or "Indian"
Finally, an answer, but why did it take you so long? And why the preceding gnashing of teeth?
quote: post the photo in some mainstream forum and say "what race is this guy" and see what happens.
Great idea, why don’t you post it on a mainstream ‘American’ forum, for Americans to answer so you can prove your point?
quote: Don't post any of the other photos so the poll is unbiased
Despite the ambiguities you suggest, you seem to be intimating that within an African, or a black context, he would indeed be thought of as xxxxx?
quote: You should have learned this lesson already, the whole inquiry is arbitrary bullshyt
Yeah, so suggesting that he might be ‘mixed’ was entirely relevant?
quote: “This man at the bottom has hair in between wavy and cury compared to the other men above him who have nappy hair. His lips are smaller than theirs and his nostrils don't flare as much. It leads me to believe he's more admixted with Arabs than the other two if they are at all. That's not to say that Africans can't have smaller lips or nostrils that don't flare as much as the other two men. But here on a relative basis, the Afar man with this wavy hair looks differnt form the other two not only in hair but in features. His eye shape iand jaw are also different.”
Lioness says
quote:... when it's you with the agenda...when it's you with the agenda...when it's you with the agenda
posted
that's a valid observation not an agenda you could actually measure these things and establish a difference between the three other individiuals and the man in question in both hair type and features fact, the African Horn is a place wherre hundreds of years of maritime trade occured. It includes intermarriage with non-Africans and this coincides with the Afar's own claims of ancestry from Yemen. It's a no brainer
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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C'mon gramps. What man calls another man a 'gay tyrant'? I can only think of one type of guy who would call another man that. I'm just saying. It sounds like something a guy like Sid Vicious would come up with. SMH. You're getting real suspicious now, X.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Can you complete this list using known coalescent ages from the literature and demonstrate that what I said was false by redecorating it with SSA specific (i.e. non- Saharan) lineages? Put up or shut up.
Getting back on topic, I take it that you're admitting that you know nothing about the types and coalescent ages of Egyptian uniparentals in the northern and eastern coasts of the Mediterranean Basin?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Quote: ...I take it that you're admitting that you know nothing about the types and coalescent ages of Egyptian uniparentals in the northern and eastern coasts of the Mediterranean Basin?Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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^^^now a request by this racist insisting I generalize about a whole populaltion and fit them is to American social stereotype categories
what good is it?
Are you an idiot? I had jsut described variation within the Afar. Now you want me to make a blanket statement to satisfy your race categorization needs.?
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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You've yet to retract your unsupported assertion that I bully mixed race people to choose a 'race'. Will you be doing so?
quote: that's a valid observation not an agenda
An observation carried out in pursuit of an agenda. You're known for trying to posit gene flow in an African context. The question is why? -given the racist colonial context for subscribing certain African phenotypes and civilizational achievements to admixture, this is strange.
To me, the fact that Horners have been recipients of Middle Eastern gene flow means very little. When you go to Africa, you're generally interacting with individuals, recipients of ancient/historical admixture or otherwise, who would be regarded as 'black' in the US and Britain, in the same way that I am, as a Black Westerner. Did you look at the google images of the Horn populations?
I don't understand why you feel the need to make observations around admixture. Why do you?
Posts: 805 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2013
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When will the red herrings stop, gramps? Have you doing almost as many face saving gymnastics as Amun Ra.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Can you complete this list using known coalescent ages from the literature and demonstrate that what I said was false by redecorating it with SSA specific (i.e. non- Saharan) lineages? Put up or shut up.
Are you admitting that you know nothing about the types and coalescent ages of Egyptian uniparentals in the northern and eastern coasts of the Mediterranean Basin?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:^^^now a request by this racist insisting I generalize about a whole populaltion and fit them is to American social stereotype categories
what good is it?
Are you an idiot? I had jsut described variation within the Afar. Now you want me to make a blanket statement to satisfy your race categorization needs.?
Calling me a racist, although a palliative for your current discomfort as the gene flow freak, doesn't really help you.
Are you really saying that asking what most Americans would make of those Horner populations makes me a racist? Not only desperate but hypocritical, since, again, you invoked American racial perceptions.
And how selective of you to choose the one population -the Afar- where we've 'overlapped' in our 'discussion'. What about the others that I provided links for?
Posts: 805 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2013
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Ok. To move this along… I don’t know, so explain to me
Quote :
Are you admitting that you know nothing about the types and coalescent ages of Egyptian uniparentals in the northern and eastern coasts of the Mediterranean Basin?
Quote: The lineages these Nile Valley associated migrations coincide with in the LITERATURE (What literature?)are respectively
--E-M81 --E-M123, E-M34, M1a --E-M78, E-V68, L2a1k, L1b1a8, M1a, U6, E-Z827 --?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by tropicals redacted: @Lioness
quote:^^^now a request by this racist insisting I generalize about a whole populaltion and fit them is to American social stereotype categories
what good is it?
Are you an idiot? I had jsut described variation within the Afar. Now you want me to make a blanket statement to satisfy your race categorization needs.?
quote:Calling me a racist, although a palliative for your current discomfort as the gene flow freak, doesn't really help you.
Are you really saying that asking what most Americans would make of those Horner populations makes me a racist?
No, I'm saying you asking me to label people in a scientific discussion using American sterotypes is racist
quote:Originally posted by tropicals redacted:
And how selective of you to choose the one population -the Afar- where we've 'overlapped' in our 'discussion'.
I didn't select the Afar, Amun Ra first posted them The issue of admixture in horners was introduced in the thread early on, not by me. other people talking about it search "mix" in each page, I hadn't been talking about it Maybe you could collect all the quotes and make a compilation
quote:Originally posted by tropicals redacted:
What about the others that I provided links for?
You are asking me what race are they accodring to the average American?
your links are various google search results for African ethnic groups, each link, hundreds of pictures of each group
Now when I have described variation in Afar you want me to go in and in a blanket statement assign each African ethnic group a race. It's a dumb request not pertinant to a scientific discussion. I don't see other posters concerned about what that mainstream American layman view might be be. Most Americans probably can't even name the vice president
quote:Originally posted by tropicals redacted:
When you go to Africa, you're generally interacting with individuals, recipients of ancient/historical admixture or otherwise, who would be regarded as 'black' in the US and Britain, in the same way that I am, as a Black Westerner.
To me, the fact that Horners have been recipients of Middle Eastern gene flow means very little.
I told your dumb ass, you may not care that Barack Obama has 50% European ancestry All you care about is Eurocentric skin color stereotypes of people. However other people in the forum like to look at the genetic reality rather than the social constructs
What was your previous member name again?
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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I am waiting for you to wiggle out your made-up unsubstantiated BS theory. about what you just posted.
I know a con-man when I see and hear one.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Ok. To move this along… I don’t know, so explain to me
Quote :
Are you admitting that you know nothing about the types and coalescent ages of Egyptian uniparentals in the northern and eastern coasts of the Mediterranean Basin?
BTW- who is Steven Hawk and what has he done of note. Quote: The lineages these Nile Valley associated migrations coincide with in the LITERATURE (What literature?)are respectively
BTW- who is Steven Hawk and what has he done of note.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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@Lioness You've yet to retract your unsupported assertion that I bully mixed race people to choose a 'race'. Will you be doing so?
So when Stuart Tyson Smith says that according to American standards, the ancient Egyptians were 'blacks', it's racist?
quote: You are asking me what race are they accodring to the average American?
You sound shocked. Or is it because you know that your innuendo around gene flow would be rendered esoteric?
quote:However other people in the forum like to look at the genetic reality rather than the social constructs
Sad... appealing to the rest of the board.
I look at the issue from the point of view of a lay person. What this gene flow means in terms of our day to day perceptions of 'race'? Would we still think of recipient populations of admixture as still 'black' or something else? You would seem to prefer the latter, but you know it's not gonna fly in the real world, hence your new-found aversion to discussing the issue in a sociological context.
As chief race-baitor on this site, it's strange that you're suddenly so puritanical.
Posts: 805 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2013
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