posted
I quote " The practice of circumcision is thought to have been brought to the Bantu-speaking tribes of Africa by either the Jews after one of their many expulsions from European countries, or by Muslim Moors escaping after the 1492 conquest of Spain. In the second half of the 1st millennium CE, inhabitants from the North East of Africa moved south and encountered groups from Arabia, the Middle East and West Africa. These people moved south and formed what is known today as the Bantu. Bantu tribes were observed to be upholding what was described as Jewish law, including circumcision, in the 16th century. Circumcision and elements of Jewish dietary restrictions are still found among Bantu tribes. [68]
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posted
White people and their cultural appropriation..when will this stealing of black culture and history stop..eehh..WHITE PEOPLE
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posted
^ Instead of complaining what racist idiots put on wiki, why not do something about it and rectify the situation?! This is why wikipedia the so-called "free" encyclopedia where anybody can write info no matter how inaccurate has become a joke. Out of curiosity, is there a source cited on that wikipage for that claim?? One rule they have in wiki to cut down on misinformation is citation of sources. Strange how virtually EVERY source I've read on circumcision in Africa says that it predates the tradition in the so-called 'Near East'. Now this article claims that it was introduced by Jews and Arabs?! Are they even aware that unlike Jews and Arabs, the circumcision in Africa is practiced as a rite of passage to manhood??
Posts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Instead of complaining what racist idiots put on wiki, why not do something about it and rectify the situation?! This is why wikipedia the so-called "free" encyclopedia where anybody can write info no matter how inaccurate has become a joke. Out of curiosity, is there a source cited on that wikipage for that claim?? One rule they have in wiki to cut down on misinformation is citation of sources. Strange how virtually EVERY source I've read on circumcision in Africa says that it predates the tradition in the so-called 'Near East'. Now this article claims that it was introduced by Jews and Arabs?! Are they even aware that unlike Jews and Arabs, the circumcision in Africa is practiced as a rite of passage to manhood??
I found that dumb wiki article here [URL=http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision][/URL]
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Or just google circumcision,the first wiki article that's it.
QUESTION to the dumb ass that wrote the article..If Jews and Arabs from Europe taught Bantus circumcision,how comes they never taught it to Europeans while they were in Europe??..
Circumcision and age set started with the military caste of Egypt,which was made up of both Bantus and southern nilotes.
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posted
LOL yes, Wikipedia is full of misinformation and disinformation on African topics though some articles are more credible than others, and include references that can be checked. The lamers there think that by bogus "stealth" and "admin" tactics- such as removing credible scholarship or faking references that they will bury an accurate picture of African bio-history. They fail. ES and its mirrors have now a strong, credible full sourced database in place independent of Wikipedia, with good representation in Google, and much more being added every day- up to date stuff too, more up to date than Wikipedia. Let them "guard" or "watch" their obsolete, error-filled pages. We have already moved on to things more credible.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: Circumcision and age set started with the military caste of Egypt,which was made up of both Bantus and southern nilotes.
This is also erroneous to attribute circumcision to Egypt, and no there were no 'Bantus' in Egypt as proto-Bantu did not even exist. Circumcision is a truly pan-African or rather paleo-African practice that originated in times immemorial due to the simple fact that it is a tradition so widespread in the continent transcending linguistic and cultural groups. Egyptians and other Afrisian speakers have it and so do Niger-Congo speakers, Nilo-Saharan speakers and who knows how many other peoples. Interestingly enough the earliest evidence of the practice outside of Africa are among Semitic speakers including original Israelite Jews and Arabians though Semitic is a branch or subset of Afrisian which is African in origin. Thus it becomes clear that the situation is the very opposite-- Africans teaching Eurasians circumcision.
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A sixth dynasty tomb, the mastaba of Ankhmahor at Saqqara, circa 2250 BCE has a relief depicting a couple of 13 year olds undergoing the rite implemented by flint knives. The Egyptian priesthood and nobility routinely circumcised. Other classes in their society often followed suit. Their cut was often a dorsal slit that exposed the glans not a complete removal of the foreskin.
Use of stone knives instead of metal ones may hint of stone age origins. The rite was practiced by the indigenees of Australia and New Guinea. Herodotus comments that Egyptians and Ethiopians have been circumcising from remote antiquity. He can't discern which of the two originated the operation. He does notice that the Phoenicians dropped the habit. He also mentions circumcising Syrians who admit they adopted the custom from Egyptians (History 2.104). Josephus' interpretation recognizes the Judeans as the only circumcising Syrians (Antiquities 8.10.3, Against Apion 1.22).Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: I quote " The practice of circumcision is thought to have been brought to the Bantu-speaking tribes of Africa by either the Jews after one of their many expulsions from European countries, or by Muslim Moors escaping after the 1492 conquest of Spain. In the second half of the 1st millennium CE, inhabitants from the North East of Africa moved south and encountered groups from Arabia, the Middle East and West Africa. These people moved south and formed what is known today as the Bantu. Bantu tribes were observed to be upholding what was described as Jewish law, including circumcision, in the 16th century. Circumcision and elements of Jewish dietary restrictions are still found among Bantu tribes. [68]
This is from the same wikipedia article, same Middle East, Africa and Europe section, first paragraph:
quote:
Circumcision
Middle East, Africa and Europe
Evidence suggests that circumcision was practiced in the Arabian Peninsula by the 4th millennium BCE, when the Sumerians and the Semites moved into the area that is modern-day Iraq.[68] The earliest historical record of circumcision comes from Egypt, in the form of an image of the circumcision of an adult carved into the tomb of Ankh-Mahor at Saqqara, dating to about 2400–2300 BCE.
....Circumcision has ancient roots among several ethnic groups in sub-equatorial Africa, and is still performed on adolescent boys to symbolize their transition to warrior status or adulthood.
Origins
Circumcision being performed in central Asia (probably Turkestan, c. 1865–1872. Restored albumen print. The origin of male circumcision is not known with certainty....
Africa
"The distribution of circumcision and initiation rites throughout Africa, and the frequent resemblance between details of ceremonial procedure in areas thousands of miles apart, indicate that the circumcision ritual has an old tradition behind it and in its present form is the result of a long process of development."[14] African cultural history is conveniently spoken of in terms of language group. The Niger–Congo speakers of today extend from Senegal to Kenya to South Africa and all points between. In the historic period, the Niger–Congo speaking peoples predominantly have and have had male circumcision which occurred in young warrior initiation schools, the schools of Senegal and Gambia being not so very different from those of the Kenyan Gikuyu and South African Zulu. Their common ancestor was a horticultural group five, perhaps seven, thousand years ago from an area of the Cross River in modern Nigeria. From that area a horticultural frontier moved outward into West Africa and the Congo Basin. Certainly the warrior schools with male circumcision were a part of the ancestral society's cultural repertoire.[15] Male circumcision in East Africa is a rite of passage from childhood to adulthood, but is only practiced in some nations (tribes). Some peoples in East Africa do not practice male circumcision (for example the Luo of western Kenya).[15] Amongst the Gikuyu (Kikuyu) people of Kenya and the Maasai people of Kenya and Tanzania, male circumcision has historically been the graduation element of an educational program which taught tribal beliefs, practices, culture, religion and history to youth who were on the verge of becoming full-fledged members of society. The circumcision ceremony was very public, and required a display of courage under the knife in order to maintain the honor and prestige of the young man and his family. The only form of anesthesia was a bath in the cold morning waters of a river, which tended to numb the senses to a minor degree. The youths being circumcised were required to maintain a stoic expression and not to flinch from the pain.[15] After circumcision, young men became members of the warrior class, and were free to date and marry. The graduants became a fraternity which served together, and continued to have mutual obligation to each other for life. In the modern context in East Africa, the physical element of male circumcision remains (in the societies that have historically practiced it) but without most of the other accompanying rites, context and programs. For many, the operation is now performed in private on one individual, in a hospital or doctor's office. Anesthesia is often used in such settings. There are tribes however, that do not accept this modernized practice. They insist on circumcision in a group ceremony, and a test of courage at the banks of a river. This more traditional approach is common amongst the Meru and the Kisii tribes of Kenya.[15] Despite the loss of the rites and ceremonies that accompanied male circumcision in the past, the physical operation remains crucial to personal identity and pride, and acceptance in society. Uncircumcised men in these communities risk being "outed", and subjected to ridicule as "boys". There have been many cases of forced circumcision of men from such communities who are discovered to have escaped the ritual. In some South African ethnic groups, circumcision has roots in several belief systems, and is performed most of the time on teenage boys: The young men in the eastern Cape belong to the Xhosa ethnic group for whom circumcision is considered part of the passage into manhood. ... A law was recently introduced requiring initiation schools to be licensed and only allowing circumcisions to be performed on youths aged 18 and older. But Eastern Cape provincial Health Department spokesman Sizwe Kupelo told Reuters news agency that boys as young as 11 had died. Each year thousands of young men go into the bush alone, without water, to attend initiation schools. Many do not survive the ordeal.[16]
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: Circumcision and age set started with the military caste of Egypt,which was made up of both Bantus and southern nilotes.
This is also erroneous to attribute circumcision to Egypt, and no there were no 'Bantus' in Egypt as proto-Bantu did not even exist. Circumcision is a truly pan-African or rather paleo-African practice that originated in times immemorial due to the simple fact that it is a tradition so widespread in the continent transcending linguistic and cultural groups. Egyptians and other Afrisian speakers have it and so do Niger-Congo speakers, Nilo-Saharan speakers and who knows how many other peoples. Interestingly enough the earliest evidence of the practice outside of Africa are among Semitic speakers including original Israelite Jews and Arabians though Semitic is a branch or subset of Afrisian which is African in origin. Thus it becomes clear that the situation is the very opposite-- Africans teaching Eurasians circumcision.
ofcourse bantus were in ancient..Bantu Y haplogroup E3a and mtDNA L3e was born in egypt,before others migrating to chad basin and others in sudan. Similarities of african circumcisions,including ancient egyptian.. 1)All are carried out to youths between the age of 13 to 18yrs as a right of passage. 2)All include episodes of going to the river,for ritual cleansing and washing their penis in the river.in the egyptian tomb of ankmahor(original relief),shows hieroglyphs with flowing water glyph..determinant for river..Ancient egyptians called river by several names i.e Iretu,Oinet and naeru(irrigation canals) 3)All emphasize on show of bravery,men were not supposed to show cowardice or winch in pain. 4)All include beating of two sticks together and the use of friction drums. 5)Young teenagers are circumcised in large groups together,which numbers between 9 to 300.(i was circumcised in a group of 12 boys of my age) 6)The initiates are put in an age set,and are taught secrets of the society and other knowledge which you cannot access unless you are circumcised the traditional way.There is a vow of secrecy involved,which is sealed with a curse. 7)older agesets supervise the younger agesets.
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A sixth dynasty tomb, the mastaba of Ankhmahor at Saqqara, circa 2250 BCE has a relief depicting a couple of 13 year olds undergoing the rite implemented by flint knives. The Egyptian priesthood and nobility routinely circumcised. Other classes in their society often followed suit. Their cut was often a dorsal slit that exposed the glans not a complete removal of the foreskin.
Use of stone knives instead of metal ones may hint of stone age origins. The rite was practiced by the indigenees of Australia and New Guinea. Herodotus comments that Egyptians and Ethiopians have been circumcising from remote antiquity. He can't discern which of the two originated the operation. He does notice that the Phoenicians dropped the habit. He also mentions circumcising Syrians who admit they adopted the custom from Egyptians (History 2.104). Josephus' interpretation recognizes the Judeans as the only circumcising Syrians (Antiquities 8.10.3, Against Apion 1.22).
Please try to upload the images of the original tomb relief,those glyphs don't make sense..I have tried reading them
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quote:Originally posted by MorolongMaropeng: Lioness Wa phapa!
greetings marolong,hey i didn't get your email on bantus,please resend. ************************** Generally in africa,being called uncircumcised is a great insult that can lead to bloodshed.People who are uncircumcised are despiced and often humiliated,if they are found out.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Well let's not forget there are Africans like the Nuer who do not circumsize or 'clitorectomize' (the one being correlary of the other; removing something female from the man and something male from the female).
No promises but will try xlating the Ankhmahor inscription time allowing so don't hold your breath.
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This is the quote from the article in wikipedia you had beef with
quote:
Circumcision
Middle East, Africa and Europe
Evidence suggests that circumcision was practiced in the Arabian Peninsula by the 4th millennium BCE, when the Sumerians and the Semites moved into the area that is modern-day Iraq.[68] The earliest historical record of circumcision comes from Egypt, in the form of an image of the circumcision of an adult carved into the tomb of Ankh-Mahor at Saqqara, dating to about 2400–2300 BCE.
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA:
ofcourse bantus were in ancient..Bantu Y haplogroup E3a and mtDNA L3e was born in egypt,before others migrating to chad basin and others in sudan.
So maybe your beef is more about whether or not bantus were in in dynastic Egyptian civilization or not because in the first article they said
" The practice of circumcision is thought to have been brought to the Bantu-speaking tribes of Africa by either the Jews after one of their many expulsions from European countries, or by Muslim Moors escaping after the 1492 conquest of Spain."
But in the History of male circumcision in Africa they said :
he origin of male circumcision is not known with certainty....
Africa
"The distribution of circumcision and initiation rites throughout Africa, and the frequent resemblance between details of ceremonial procedure in areas thousands of miles apart, indicate that the circumcision ritual has an old tradition behind it and in its present form is the result of a long process of development."[14]
[14]Wagner, G. (1949). The Bantu of North Kavirondo. London: International African Institute.
The Bantu of North Kavirondo. (also read more of this book herer you might find it interesting)
^ there are 100 matches to the word "circumcision" here and I don't know where origin is discussed, but I assume they can speculate on the historical origins but can't document when
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA:
of course bantus were in ancient..Bantu Y haplogroup E3a and mtDNA L3e was born in egypt,before others migrating to chad basin and others in sudan.
We can say that Bantus have DNA haplotypes in common with Ramesses III One could argue that could mean there is a common ancestor but not necessarily that Bantu speaking people lived in dynastic Egypt.
_________________
wikipedia
Bantu languages
The Bantu languages descend from a common Proto-Bantu language, which is believed to have been spoken in what is now Cameroon in West Africa.[8] An estimated 2,500–3,000 years ago (500 BC to 1000 BC), although other sources put the start of the Bantu Expansion closer to 3000 BC,[9] speakers of the Proto-Bantu language began a series of migrations eastward and southward, carrying agriculture with them. This Bantu expansion came to dominate Sub-Saharan Africa east of Cameroon, an area where Bantu peoples now constitute nearly the entire population.[8][10]
The death and deformity caused by male circumcision in Africa can’t be ignored
Ally Fogg
For thousands of African boys, the silence of the international community has devastating health consequences
Monday 25 August 2014 12.20 EDT Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share via Email Share on LinkedIn Share on Google+ Shares 2,475 Comments 285 This week 200,000 festival-goers are gathering in Mutoto, Uganda, where they will enjoy the music, dancing, party atmosphere and the traditional ritual circumcision without anaesthetic of at least 1,000 teenage boys.
Males from participating tribes are told that if they do not volunteer they will be captured and circumcised by force. One MP said the chilling words: “If you know any Mugisu who is dodging the circumcision, show him to us and you will get sh500,000 [£115] as a reward.” The Ugandan Tourist Board is marketing this as a major tourist attraction, with the blessing of President Museveni. This comes just two weeks after a mob in neighbouring Kenya reportedly abducted at least 12 men from different tribes and forcibly circumcised them in the street. Dozens more were said to be camping outside the police station for protection. No one has been yet arrested for the assaults.
Every year across sub-Saharan Africa, hundreds of thousands of boys and young men submit to initiation ceremonies. The specifics vary, but typically youths will spend weeks living near-naked in temporary shelters with minimal sleep, food and water. After the operation the penis is bound tightly with sisel leaves.
The human devastation left in the wake of these traditions is horrifying. A recent report by South Africa’s Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities calculated that in the Eastern Cape and Limpopo provinces alone at least 419 boys have died since 2008, and more than 456,000 initiates have been hospitalised with complications.
Deaths commonly occur through dehydration, blood loss, shock-induced heart failure or septicaemia. And there are estimated to be two total penile amputations for every death. Countless numbers of participants are left with permanent scarring or deformity. Urologists describe seeing patients whose penises have become so infected and gangrenous they literally drop off.
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Most ceremonies are nominally voluntary, but it is questionable how easy it would be to resist the cultural pressure to take part. One young South African who spoke out after his penis was amputated following a botched circumcision was severely beaten as punishment for shaming the ceremony. When women elders condemn what is happening to their sons, they are vilified by tribal leaders.
Authorities acknowledge the scale of the problem. The Western Cape cultural affairs executive member Dr Nomafrench Mbombo has said the deaths across South Africa should be seen as nothing less than a national crisis. The South African Human Rights Commission calls it “endemic carnage”. Various laws have been passed or proposed, and some money has been found to support medical circumcision as an alternative, but still boys die by the dozen.
Perhaps most shockingly of all, we have no idea of the true scale of the problem. South Africa has relatively well-developed governance and public health systems, but many initiation schools are unlicensed and illegal, so the full toll of death and injury may be hidden. In other countries tragedies simply go uncounted.
The international health, human rights and development bodies that could fund and conduct research or support local efforts to contain the problem are distinguished only by their silence. The last time the World Health Organisation (WHO) published anything significant on this problem was in 2009, when it made a few nods towards the devastating health consequences, but primarily concerned itself with how such initiations could be employed in the drive to circumcise African men as an Aids prevention strategy.
It may well be that the continent-wide circumcision campaign to prevent Aids is a principle cause of the institutional silence on the issue. It seems likely that the WHO, UNAIDS and similar bodies are reluctant to say or do anything that might undermine the drive. Leaving aside the ongoing epidemiological debate about the effectiveness of the strategy, it is self-evident that non-clinical circumcision can be actively harmful, leaving bleeding wounds or incomplete removal of the foreskin which can increase risks.
There may also be a fear that interfering in traditional customs could be seen as cultural imperialism. In effect this entails abandoning those within countries and cultures who are desperately striving to change habits. As Mbombo told me: “The Western Cape government would welcome any involvement by the international community or development bodies such as WHO, Unesco or Unicef in assisting with bringing awareness to local communities in South Africa about the health risks and benefits of traditional rituals like initiation and circumcision. The government believes that initiation and/or circumcision is a cultural practice with health implications. We support the administering of this practice, however it must be done in a way that does not jeopardise the health and wellbeing of the young men.”
Dr Kegakilwe of the Rural Doctors Association is understandably wary of international bodies trampling over traditional customs, but noted: “The relevant people to pronounce the correctness of the procedure are the traditional authority and the health department. The [wider] health community should only come in if the procedure at its best is having negative health consequences to the population and/or is anti-human rights.”
There is much to be admired in the rituals and ceremonies that mark the transition of African boys into manhood. The South African constitution rightly protects traditional cultural mores, while legislation forbids practices that are unsafe, injurious or violations of the rights of children. Within South Africa and many other countries, there are many courageous campaigners who seek to reconcile these ambitions. They need and deserve the support of the international community, not its indifference.
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Lioness..The reason why there are catastrophic circumcision deaths in south Africa.UNLIKE zero deaths for the rest of Africa is because black south Africans have been dominated by whites for over 200 yes.losing most of their ancenstral lands to whites.That means most black south Africans live in urban areas, where there is no access for traditional medicinal herbs.But the zeal to uphold traditional customs is very high in south Africa.Because by upholding these ancient customs they get a glimpse of their ancient glorious past,before they lost their traditional lands.Circumcision carried out i n urban areas or these reserves formally called bantustans is very dangerous,because most urban south Africans have lost their knowledge of traditional African medicine,unlike other Africans.E.g neighboring Mozambique and Zimbabwe..You are not allowed to share your tribal secrets with other tribes.So south African blacks suffer due to loss of crucial ancient knowledge due to modernity.In Kenya,there are zero circumcision deaths.When I was circumcised,I bled only for a few minutes before the circumciser/traditional surgeon blew a herbal juice from medicinal roots extracted from a plant native to Africa.immediately he blew those powdered roots to my penis bleeding stopped.He came three days later with some leaves which he gave every initiate to chew and spit the juice on the wounds and in six days I was completely healed.modern south Africans don't have access to these traditional herbs,also the ancient knowledge has been lost due to urbanisation.South Africans should learn from urbanized Kenyans,who hire a proffessional doctor from their own tribes that has also undergone the same initiation process,and himself was circumcised traditional.In Kenya and the whole of greatlakes circumcision deaths are unheard of..
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posted
Here are some excerpst form a scientifc article on the topic from the World Health Organization, Kenaya is mentioned
Traditional male circumcision in eastern and southern Africa: a systematic review of prevalence and complications
Andrea Wilcken
The self-reported prevalence of traditional male circumcision varies greatly between eastern and southern Africa, from 20% in Uganda and southern African countries to more than 80% in Kenya.2
The percentage of men reportedly circumcised varied from 52% in an urban setting in Mbale district, Uganda,13 to 80% in rural areas of the Southern Rift Valley in Kenya,11 and 99% in rural and urban areas of Tarime district, in the United Republic of Tanzania.16 Rates of circumcision performed by traditional circumcisers in districts where male circumcision is widely practised were up to 90% in Uganda,13 74% in Kenya11 and 63% in the United Republic of Tanzania.16 In the townships of the Gauteng province of South Africa, 10% of males aged 14–24 years and 22% of those aged 19–29 years were reportedly circumcised, in 58–65% of cases by traditional circumcisers.12,14 The choice of providers depended on the affiliation to different ethnic groups; for example, 86% of Xhosa participants were circumcised by traditional providers compared with only 37% of Tswana men.12
Age Age at traditional male circumcision varied both within and among countries and ranged from 13 to 20 years (Table 1).11–14,17,18 In the United Republic of Tanzania, the period prevalence of circumcision was 86.5% at 18 and 99% at 21.5 years of age.16 In Namibia, 84% of boys were circumcised before the age of 13 years: in Omaheke and Kunene districts, most boys were below 2 years of age, and in Kavango district they were generally between 9 and 12 years of age.15
Complications Overall complication rates Only two out of six studies reported overall complication rates following traditional male circumcision; rates were 35% in Kenya (83% for 12 directly observed study participants)18 and 48% in South Africa (Table 2).
Types of complications Two studies used direct observation to assess complications after traditional male circumcision.17,18 Infection and delayed wound healing were the most common complications. No severe bleeding occurred in the Kenyan (n = 12),18 and the South African study (n = 192).17 Excessive circumcision was reported as a primary complication after traditional male circumcision in the South African study17 and as a secondary result of incomplete initial circumcision in the Kenyan study.18 Re-circumcision resulted in excessive removal of skin and a deepened wound with prolonged wound healing, excessive scarring and loss of penile sensitivity. Delayed wound healing and keloid scarring were also associated with the use of a powder containing penicillin and talc that is used for wound care by traditional providers in Kenya.18 Fatalities did not occur in the South African study17 and one death was prevented by the research team in the Kenyan study.18
One study assessed complications based on recall by participants (n = 108).14 In contrast to results from direct observation, bleeding (26%) and severe pain (43%) were reported as being major adverse results, whereas delayed wound healing was not mentioned and local infections were reported in only 4% of cases.14
According to hospital admission records, infection was the most common reason for admission in Kenya, Nigeria and South Africa.19,20 In the South African study, two-thirds of the cases presented with systemic infection requiring treatment with antibiotics.19 Four of the 45 admitted patients had lost the glans of the penis and two patients lost the entire penis. In this study, 93% of the 45 subjects presented with some form of penile injury resulting not necessarily from the circumcision procedure itself but from poor post-operative wound care. Such care included tight bandages (traditionally believed to improve wound healing), which constricted the blood supply of the penile skin, in some cases causing occlusion of the deep dorsal arteries and leading to gangrene.19 The study from Kenya and Nigeria reported loss of the penis in 6% of all admitted cases.20 Dehydration was a frequent cause of death, due to fluid being restricted after the circumcision as a further test of the initiates’ endurance.19
In the study of hospitals in Nigeria and Kenya, complete or partial amputation of the penis had occurred in 14% of the 50 hospital admissions after traditional male circumcision, but not once after medical male circumcision by surgeons (n = 249). The types of complications leading to admission after traditional male circumcision were not common after medical male circumcision, with rates of 3% for serious wound infection, 1% for severe bleeding and 0% for incomplete circumcision.20 In the study in the Gauteng township of South Africa, self-reported healing time (median: 3 weeks) did not differ among those who were circumcised traditionally or medically.14 However, the frequency of self-reported pain differed significantly between the two groups: 86% after traditional male circumcision and 61% after medical male circumcision.14
Studies reporting on providers of male circumcision at district level were available from Kenya, South Africa, the United Republic of Tanzania and Uganda, with the prevalence of circumcisions performed by traditional circumcisers ranging from 37% to 90%.
The median age at circumcision ranged from 13 to 20 years, with considerable variation within and among countries, depending on the traditions of different ethnic groups.12,15 In some settings, circumcision may take place at an earlier age, especially when parents have their sons circumcised in a clinical setting in anticipation of fewer complications.18
The best available evidence on the complications following traditional male circumcision comes from a large cohort study in Kenya that reported a complication rate of 35%
Bailey RC, Egesah O, Rosenberg S. Male circumcision for HIV prevention: a prospective study of complications in clinical and traditional settings in Bungoma, Kenya. Bull World Health Organ 2008; 86: 669-77 doi: 10.2471/BLT.08.051482 pmid: 18797642.
Why a white South African risked traditional circumcision 17 July 2013 Africa A white South African teenager has undergone a traditional circumcision, even though dozens of boys die each year in such ceremonies, which are seen as a rite of passage into manhood in some communities. He told the BBC's Pumza Fihlani it had changed him for the better. Seventeen-year-old Brandon de Wet, from South Africa's Eastern Cape province, went through with the ritual, which is not without its risks, with his Xhosa friend of 13 years, Yanelisa Somyo. "It was a really tough road and was like nothing I've ever experienced," Brandon told the BBC about the three-week long experience in the mountains. "It was challenging mentally but it was worth it," he said proudly. The practice of ritual circumcision is common among ethnic Xhosas and Ndebeles - two of South Africa's most numerous communities. "Yanelisa and I have been friends since we started school as young boys. Sharing this with him has strengthened our friendship even more," says Brandon. "I also have a better understanding of his culture." The two go to a mainly white private school in the city of East London. They were joined by Yanelisa's cousin Mbuzeli Somyo. When young Xhosa boys are aged between 15 and 17, their families prepare to take them to an initiation school - where they will be under the care of an "ingcibi", a traditional surgeon, and an "ikhankatha", a traditional nurse. This ritual is usually performed over the June school holidays or in December. Secrecy Deep in the mountains, they are taught the virtues of manhood and how to become upstanding men in their communities, among other things. The boys spent weeks in a hut in a secluded area where only men can visit But it is a practice steeped in secrecy, so Brandon is careful not to give any intimate details of what he and his friend went through. True to tradition he simply says that it was a "difficult time". He recalls how accommodating his ingcibi was throughout his time there - but said he did not receive any special treatment. "I can understand a bit of Xhosa but my surgeon would explain the details of what was going to happen and why it was important in English," says Brandon. Although most aspects of the ceremony are secret, some aspects are known. After the circumcision operation, the boys enter a specially built hut called an iboma, where they live together throughout the initiation period. Their families prepare food for them and send young girls to deliver it. The incibi will give instructions on what food should be prepared for the initiates. He treats the boys' wounds with herbal mixtures and is expected to monitor the healing process to make sure that there are no infections. During this time the boys are clothed only in loincloths and covered in blankets, while white mud is smeared all over their body. At the end of the initiation period they all bath at a river and wash off the mud - a symbol of leaving their "old selves" behind. They burn the iboma where they had been living, another sign of leaving the old behind and beginning a new life. The initiates then paint their bodies with red mud - this is how everyone at the homecoming knows that they have finished the entire course. They are also given new blankets, which only those who have completed the ritual are allowed to wear. In recent years many have begun to question the role of traditional circumcision in a modern society, especially with dozens of boys dying at bogus initiation schools every year. All traditional surgeons should be registered with the authorities - in the past, they were well-known members of the community but recently untrained people have seen setting up initiation schools as a way to make money, locals say. In the current initiation season alone, more than 70 boys across the country have died from dehydration, gangrene and septic wounds and others from multiple assault after weeks of maltreatment at the hands of their supposed carers. Knowing all this, it was an especially difficult decision for Brandon's parents to go along with. "I sat him down and tried to persuade him to change his mind. But I could tell that his mind was made up," his mother Charlene de Wet told me. "The only thing that gave me comfort was knowing that the Somyo family would take good care of him and they did," she said. "I remember the day he left, the goodbye was so abrupt. They just whisked him away. I felt both sad and anxious." Traditionally, women are not allowed to come into contact with the boys during their initiation period. They are not allowed to ask questions about what happens in the mountains - a sign of the patriarchy that exists in rural South Africa. About 20,000 boys in Eastern Cape go to initiation schools during each season, according to the province's health department. But those who swear by the practice say that when done in the correct way, it poses no threat to the lives of the young men. "This is an ancient practice that has an important role in grooming our sons. I underwent it as a young man, it helped to shape me into the man I am today," Mlibo Qoboshiyane, Eastern Cape's local government and traditional affairs minister, told the BBC. However, families need to play a more active role in the process, he says, firstly by ensuring that they choose a reputable "ingcibi" and "ikhankatha" and secondly by visiting their boys regularly to make sure that they are being treated well. A hero's welcome Brandon's father, Dave de Wet, agrees. As a man, he was allowed to visit his son. "I checked on my boy every other day. This helped me to be comfortable with what was happening," he said. On the day of their homecoming to Gqumashe village, there was a huge feast and euphoric celebration; the boys, now considered men, were received like kings. There was singing, ululating and dancing. "The outpouring of love from the community was just overwhelming," Mr de Wet told the BBC. "It was a really proud moment for us." Some villagers were surprised to see a white boy with the other initiates initially but Brandon says they made him feel like part of that community. But not all initiates return to such festivities. During the June holiday season, 300 boys were admitted into hospitals across the province, 10 of whom had their penises amputated because of their wounds. And five men have been arrested in connection with the deaths of 30 boys. Mr de Wet tells me that this experience was a learning curve not just for Brandon but for his entire family. All three boys are back home in East London, and normal life has resumed. But Brandon's parent say they have noticed a change in their son. "He seems a lot more placid, a lot more mature. This experience has definitely changed him," his mother says. His father says it has been an "invaluable lesson for him". "He was exposed to another way of life and now has a deeper appreciation of the luxuries that he would have otherwise taken for granted."
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
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posted
This Topic is about circumcision caveman.crawl back to your cave nearnderthal creep.Start your own thread and don't forget to include; White people are so stupid,how can they **** each other in the ass,don't they know **** comes out of there?
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
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quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: greetings marolong,hey i didn't get your email on bantus,please resend. ************************** Generally in africa,being called uncircumcised is a great insult that can lead to bloodshed.People who are uncircumcised are despiced and often humiliated,if they are found out.
Hello Ledama, being quite busy lately, will resend email.
According to oral accounts, the origin of this dates back to a time when Bantu interacted with beings of a different nature, whose phallus did not have a foreskin, the so called gods. Back then it is said there were two branches of men from the same stock, the 1st ones with hair like that of a male lion meaning Afro with a beard and the latter ones whose chins did not grow hair. This is one oral account that shows how far back the tradition of circumcision and growing of beards goes.
Again owing to oral accounts, uncircumcised males were often associated with being of a lower class in terms of societal hierarchies and were often relegated to positions of lesser importance.
The penis and the act of procreating are also associated with the snake, its shape and the nature of shedding the skin. The Bantu terms that are used to explain copulation, the penis and vagina will by no doubt help u have a deeper understanding the shedding of the skin (circumcision) by the males.
Give me the Swahili and other Bantu terms of the following, and i will show u how they each were derived from another: snake, penis and vagina.
The problem with university (in the true sense of the word) is that Black people busy themselves with kindergarten discourses like a bone thrown to hungry dogs so that intruders and thieves might pass spot free through our own yard.
A verse is one thing and a universe another, thus university its applied form. Only the sheep will hear and others who are not of this fold.
Posts: 45 | From: South Africa | Registered: Jul 2014
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quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: Lioness..The reason why there are catastrophic circumcision deaths in south Africa.UNLIKE zero deaths for the rest of Africa is because black south Africans have been dominated by whites for over 200 yes.losing most of their ancenstral lands to whites.That means most black south Africans live in urban areas, where there is no access for traditional medicinal herbs.But the zeal to uphold traditional customs is very high in south Africa.Because by upholding these ancient customs they get a glimpse of their ancient glorious past,before they lost their traditional lands.Circumcision carried out i n urban areas or these reserves formally called bantustans is very dangerous,because most urban south Africans have lost their knowledge of traditional African medicine,unlike other Africans.E.g neighboring Mozambique and Zimbabwe..You are not allowed to share your tribal secrets with other tribes.So south African blacks suffer due to loss of crucial ancient knowledge due to modernity.In Kenya,there are zero circumcision deaths.When I was circumcised,I bled only for a few minutes before the circumciser/traditional surgeon blew a herbal juice from medicinal roots extracted from a plant native to Africa.immediately he blew those powdered roots to my penis bleeding stopped.He came three days later with some leaves which he gave every initiate to chew and spit the juice on the wounds and in six days I was completely healed.modern south Africans don't have access to these traditional herbs,also the ancient knowledge has been lost due to urbanisation.South Africans should learn from urbanized Kenyans,who hire a proffessional doctor from their own tribes that has also undergone the same initiation process,and himself was circumcised traditional.In Kenya and the whole of greatlakes circumcision deaths are unheard of..
The Media blows this out of proportion in a way to discourage Black teenagers from attending this schools because of fear of what they will be taught. In reality, the number of legit initiations schools where there is zero fatalities and zero botched circumcisions outnumber the few reported by mischievous White journalists.
South Africa is riddle by fly-by-night initiation schools conducted by crooks with no proper ancient knowledge regarding right of passage for male children. They charge ridiculous fees for attending such school whereas proper ones do not charge. Traditionally, people who conduct such schools are called(spiritually) into the profession and what they teach is channeled through them.
The most important aspect is that such mountain or bush-veld schools must first be protected by a very powerful traditional doctor before the initiation commence. This doctor must be skilled with among other things, creating a supernatural shield around the initiates camp.
This protects the initiates from all manner of maladies and roaming spirits. Initially initiation schools were a place where males of a particular generations where to be trained and equipped for the roles they will play in a society.
For example, the challenges a particular generation would face, the initiation school was where a team forged to deal with the challenges though various societal dispensations
Below is the two most important bulbous herbs that are used with regards to circumcision
Posts: 45 | From: South Africa | Registered: Jul 2014
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posted
In 1998 Johan Binneman discovered the mummified body of a San hunter in a cave in the Kouga mountains, Eastern Cape. The 2 000-year-old body was carefully wrapped in Boophone disticha bulb scales that had preserved it and protected it from insects and flesh-eating organisms (see the Archaeological Society of SA’s journal The Digging Stick, Vol.16: 2, April 1999).
The name Boophone disticha comes from the Greek words bous (ox) and phonos (slaughter), as the poison in the bulb can kill an ox. Boophone disticha (Bushmans Poison in English, Boesmansgif or Gifbol in Afrikaans, Leshoma in Sesotho & Ishwadi in iSixhosa) is a perennial geophyte which may grow to 600mm tall. This is an extremely toxic bulb which grows in grassland and rocky area. The genus comprises of five or six species and is distributed throughout southern Africa to tropical Africa, but the B. disticha is the most widespread
The bulb scales are most often used in most Bantu initiation ceremonies to dress circumcision wounds which are said to numb the pain among other benefits. Fresh leaves are used to stop bleeding of wounds.
"The San people believe this bulb has the power to transport the dead through the doorway of the spirit to the life hereafter. For this reason it is revered and feared by the San who regard it as enormously powerful.
We know this, not only from its traditional use, but also from their attitude to this plant. The Khoe-San, past and present, have always shared their knowledge of healing plants, but when it comes Boophone they go quiet. They will not discuss its powers or even go near the bulb when they see it growing in the wild."
When you earnestly study the spiritual life of Bantu people, one realizes there is always an element of substitution at play. If one thing(plant) that serve a particular purpose is no longer available a new one that serve a similar purpose is revealed to the shaman.
TBC Posts: 45 | From: South Africa | Registered: Jul 2014
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@marolong..wow,it is amazing that you south Africans use exactly the same herbal medicine as us Kenyans. Thank you for explaining to me what is happening in south Africa. In kiswahili Penis=mboro,Vagina=kuma,Snake=Nyoka..a very big snake is JOKA.
In regard to other Kenyan Bantu languages..please get Kikuyu dictionary online,or download the Kikuyu dictionary app to your phone from google store. I also have been very busy.. until next time.peace.
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
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The following is not for your average person, may you be awarded with the understanding as we bring to the surface.
One ancient Bantu(Egptah) belief is that after the Sun has set, it travels through the underworld to be reborn the following day. Those who are still in doubt of a Bantu presence and influence in ancient Egypt must refer to the ESR thread on Evolution of the Pyramid.
Since this is Egyptology, I take all know about the 12 gates of the underworld. I wont discuss all the doors but will deal with the ones relevant to this subject. The gates themselves represented the 12 hours of the night. The Sun would begin its journey at nightfall and it would end at dawn.
10th Gate Within this chamber, a contest/battle of epic proportions takes place. The Sun(son) spends an hour(month) in the tenth cavern fighting Nik (Apep). This is where initiates are taught how to fight their serpentine nature.
11th Gate The initiate emerge from the battle having subdued Apep(nik) by tying him up. The war is over and the initiates rejoice an commence to the final phase.
12th Gate The final stage, the initiate prepared to be reborn as a Man (sun) by the power of the Boophone bulb which helped to transport him through the underworld Gate/doorways.
(The Jews circumcise their newborn on the 8th day which is the 1st day of the created. 8 is the number of new start within a ring/infinity) Shedding the "Old Skin" of Original Sin
Example 15: SNAKE Raymond Faulkner 126, Budge 345b Christian Jacq 149
Ancient Egyptian: Nik serpent
Zulu-Kiswahili nioka, nyoka = Snake, Serpent
The word for serpent or snake in Bantu languages is derived from the Proto-Bantu joka, nyoka, root -oka. By using different prefixes attached to the root one arrives at different pronunciations. As an example the word used in Luvale is 'noka', in Setswana is 'noga' and in Sesotho is 'noha'. Other examples are ey-oka, nj-oka. In the Zulu/Kiswahili language the word is given as ny-oka or ni-oka. The word ni-oka gives an exact match in sound and meaning with the Ancient Egyptian word, nik.
The Bantu Sotho-Tswana word for copulation is 'nyoka' or 'nyoba' and the word for vagina is 'nnyo'. Adding the dimunitive suffix -ana it spells 'nnywana' The Bantu Zulu word for mother is 'nyoko'.
African fertility(snake) dance involves mimicking the movement and gyrating like a snake. The Domba, also known as the Python Dance, it is where Vhenda girls perform in a ceremony a rite of passage when coming of age. Their bodies mimic the rhythms of a snake, since the snake, in turn, symbolised the creatorial forces of the phallus and the womb.
The Bantu Vhenda word for penis is also 'mboro' In Zulu is 'u-mthondo' and in Sotho-Tswana is 'ntoto'
Example 3 Faulkner 121
MTWT seed, progeny, semen
The consonants spell out the word MTOWTO.
Posts: 45 | From: South Africa | Registered: Jul 2014
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posted
Explain the worship of Hathor(yator) in African circumcisions(I don't want to spill the beans but somebody has to talk about it).Especially Kalenjin,Meru,Kikuyu,dogon and Xhosa circumcisions which are very similar.I mean the going inside and out the TETA 'cow' 4 times naked.Were you taught astrology and also what is the significant of the menat necklace.In kalenjin we call MENKIT(it potrays the male and female stars of the universe.
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
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The following is not for your average person, may you be awarded with the understanding as we bring to the surface.
One ancient Bantu(Egptah) belief is that after the Sun has set, it travels through the underworld to be reborn the following day. Those who are still in doubt of a Bantu presence and influence in ancient Egypt must refer to the ESR thread on Evolution of the Pyramid.
Since this is Egyptology, I take all know about the 12 gates of the underworld. I wont discuss all the doors but will deal with the ones relevant to this subject. The gates themselves represented the 12 hours of the night. The Sun would begin its journey at nightfall and it would end at dawn.
10th Gate Within this chamber, a contest/battle of epic proportions takes place. The Sun(son) spends an hour(month) in the tenth cavern fighting Nik (Apep). This is where initiates are taught how to fight their serpentine nature.
11th Gate The initiate emerge from the battle having subdued Apep(nik) by tying him up. The war is over and the initiates rejoice an commence to the final phase.
12th Gate The final stage, the initiate prepared to be reborn as a Man (sun) by the power of the Boophone bulb which helped to transport him through the underworld Gate/doorways.
(The Jews circumcise their newborn on the 8th day which is the 1st day of the created. 8 is the number of new start within a ring/infinity) Shedding the "Old Skin" of Original Sin
Example 15: SNAKE Raymond Faulkner 126, Budge 345b Christian Jacq 149
Ancient Egyptian: Nik serpent
Zulu-Kiswahili nioka, nyoka = Snake, Serpent
The word for serpent or snake in Bantu languages is derived from the Proto-Bantu joka, nyoka, root -oka. By using different prefixes attached to the root one arrives at different pronunciations. As an example the word used in Luvale is 'noka', in Setswana is 'noga' and in Sesotho is 'noha'. Other examples are ey-oka, nj-oka. In the Zulu/Kiswahili language the word is given as ny-oka or ni-oka. The word ni-oka gives an exact match in sound and meaning with the Ancient Egyptian word, nik.
The Bantu Sotho-Tswana word for copulation is 'nyoka' or 'nyoba' and the word for vagina is 'nnyo'. Adding the dimunitive suffix -ana it spells 'nnywana' The Bantu Zulu word for mother is 'nyoko'.
African fertility(snake) dance involves mimicking the movement and gyrating like a snake. The Domba, also known as the Python Dance, it is where Vhenda girls perform in a ceremony a rite of passage when coming of age. Their bodies mimic the rhythms of a snake, since the snake, in turn, symbolised the creatorial forces of the phallus and the womb.
The Bantu Vhenda word for penis is also 'mboro' In Zulu is 'u-mthondo' and in Sotho-Tswana is 'ntoto'
Example 3 Faulkner 121
MTWT seed, progeny, semen
The consonants spell out the word MTOWTO.
Yes the 8th day is the day after the Lord's day of rest, however there is also a scientific explanation as well. An infant is able to produce vitamin K used for blood clotting on the 8th day as well.
As I said, Africans practiced circumcision as a rite of passage to manhood, but Jews practice circumcision as a religious rite wherein the foreskin was originally a blood sacrifice to the Lord as part of a covenant made with him.
Posts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Circumcision Both male circumcision and before it female circumcision have been an ancient custom among Semitic peoples from very early times (Briffault 3/323), however Jewish circumcision did not assume its present form until as late as the Maccabees (165 BC). Previous to that time it was so minor (possibly merely an incision) that "the jibes of the Gentile women could be evaded, little trace of the operation being perceptible" (Briffault 3/331).
It is notable that the Harranians were not circumcised. This casts doubt on Abraham's circumcision as an invention of post-exilic Jewish writers, although it may be considered a sin offering for male fertility to the phallic god: Gen 17:9 "And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you." Snaith (81) comments "There is no reference to circumcision in the earlier lawsand the rite is nowhere enjoined before the Priestly Code as having any particular significance."
Circumcision is not part of the decalogue. Moses did not yield so easily to circumcision, specifically postponing it in the case of his second son, and it was probably neither a practice of Zipporah. Exod 4:24 "And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him. Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, 'Surely a bloody husband art thou to me ... because of the circumcision.' "
One of the most bizarre episodes of purported circumcision is the 'second circumcision rite' in Joshua 5:2 "At that time the LORD said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time. And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins. ... Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised. ... And it came to pass, when they had done circumcising all the people, that they abode in their places in the camp, till they were whole. And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you. Wherefore the name of the place is called Gilgal unto this day". However the longer Greek version tells us that the very flint knives used were buried in his grave at Timnath-serah and remained there 'unto this day'. However artefacts discovered there in 1870 date from the stone-age casting the whole episode as one of fantastic myth invented at the sight of the artefacts (Fox R 230). Chris King:
posted
Circumcision probably symbolizes an erected penis and therefore is a symbol of manhood.
Several portable ancient phallic pieces with replications of totally retracted or absent foreskin, piercings, scars and tattoos. Posts: 83 | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
^ The original meaning or purpose behind circumcision is forever lost in time as the tradition is prehistoric. According to Tukuler and others it may have something to do with becoming a total gender i.e. circumcision made a boy into a complete man and a girl into a complete woman. I will say that according to the many African societies that practice it, it had to do with ritual purity or distinction. Many African groups for example look down on uncircumcised men as "unclean" or "inferior". This same African tradition made its way into the 'Near East' with either proto-Semitic and/or Egyptian influence.
Posts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
In my opinion the mysticism in circumcision came later. Ultimately an erected penis is a symbol of manhood=power=fertility. The different types of female circumcision are harder to explain, maybe the cutting of the clitoris represents a symbolic form of menstruation/birth= fertility. Also when a child is born blood flows (vagina) and blood must flow again, via a symbolic cut in the female genitalia.
quote:Originally posted by sero: In my opinion the mysticism in circumcision came later. Ultimately an erected penis is a symbol of manhood=power=fertility. The different types of female circumcision are harder to explain, maybe the cutting of the clitoris represents a symbolic form of menstruation/birth= fertility. Also when a child is born blood flows (vagina) and blood must flow again, via a symbolic cut in the female genitalia.
Erected penis = circumcised
In terms of female genital mutilation there are different forms with circumcision being only one of them. The other forms especially the extreme form of infibulation is NOT a traditional African practice but an Islamic one meant to injure a woman and diminish her pleasure.
And dude please stop with the dick pics. It is unnecessary since I understand the point you are trying to make.
Posts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sero: In my opinion the mysticism in circumcision came later. Ultimately an erected penis is a symbol of manhood=power=fertility. The different types of female circumcision are harder to explain, maybe the cutting of the clitoris represents a symbolic form of menstruation/birth= fertility. Also when a child is born blood flows (vagina) and blood must flow again, via a symbolic cut in the female genitalia.
Erected penis = circumcised
we need to see the circumsized penis in limp state for comparison
-I like these guys saying "don't post anymore more dicks"
meanwhile they watch porn on a regular basis, every night they're looking at dicks splattering on some poor girls face
This is a penis thread,
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: we need to see the circumsized penis in limp state for comparison
-I like these guys saying "don't post anymore more dicks"
meanwhile they watch porn on a regular basis, every night they're looking at dicks splattering on some poor girls face
This is a penis thread,
What? & u claim to be female?
I haven't met a consenting woman yet who (if not at first then soon after), does not love receiving it in the face. In fact most "newly facialed" can't stop staring at it in the mirror when they bolt to wipe their face or clean their eyes or hair.
It all depends on the man's lovingly approach.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Guys & gals: whatcha say? Don't get graphic but what's your experiences with cumming on 1st timer females? Feigned protest that soon evolves into an obsession for the stuff or ...?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Guys & gals: whatcha say? Don't get graphic but what's your experiences with cumming on 1st timer females? Feigned protest that soon evolves into an obsession for the stuff or ...?
W.T.F. Ausar delete this whole thread for me,they ruined it with them dick pictures..bunch of fags..
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
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posted
PM me with the post numbers you'd like deleted. I will review and reply to you before deleting. OK.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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The following is not for your average person, may you be awarded with the understanding as we bring to the surface.
One ancient Bantu(Egptah) belief is that after the Sun has set, it travels through the underworld to be reborn the following day. Those who are still in doubt of a Bantu presence and influence in ancient Egypt must refer to the ESR thread on Evolution of the Pyramid.
Since this is Egyptology, I take all know about the 12 gates of the underworld. I wont discuss all the doors but will deal with the ones relevant to this subject. The gates themselves represented the 12 hours of the night. The Sun would begin its journey at nightfall and it would end at dawn.
10th Gate Within this chamber, a contest/battle of epic proportions takes place. The Sun(son) spends an hour(month) in the tenth cavern fighting Nik (Apep). This is where initiates are taught how to fight their serpentine nature.
11th Gate The initiate emerge from the battle having subdued Apep(nik) by tying him up. The war is over and the initiates rejoice an commence to the final phase.
12th Gate The final stage, the initiate prepared to be reborn as a Man (sun) by the power of the Boophone bulb which helped to transport him through the underworld Gate/doorways.
(The Jews circumcise their newborn on the 8th day which is the 1st day of the created. 8 is the number of new start within a ring/infinity) Shedding the "Old Skin" of Original Sin
Example 15: SNAKE Raymond Faulkner 126, Budge 345b Christian Jacq 149
Ancient Egyptian: Nik serpent
Zulu-Kiswahili nioka, nyoka = Snake, Serpent
The word for serpent or snake in Bantu languages is derived from the Proto-Bantu joka, nyoka, root -oka. By using different prefixes attached to the root one arrives at different pronunciations. As an example the word used in Luvale is 'noka', in Setswana is 'noga' and in Sesotho is 'noha'. Other examples are ey-oka, nj-oka. In the Zulu/Kiswahili language the word is given as ny-oka or ni-oka. The word ni-oka gives an exact match in sound and meaning with the Ancient Egyptian word, nik.
The Bantu Sotho-Tswana word for copulation is 'nyoka' or 'nyoba' and the word for vagina is 'nnyo'. Adding the dimunitive suffix -ana it spells 'nnywana' The Bantu Zulu word for mother is 'nyoko'.
African fertility(snake) dance involves mimicking the movement and gyrating like a snake. The Domba, also known as the Python Dance, it is where Vhenda girls perform in a ceremony a rite of passage when coming of age. Their bodies mimic the rhythms of a snake, since the snake, in turn, symbolised the creatorial forces of the phallus and the womb.
The Bantu Vhenda word for penis is also 'mboro' In Zulu is 'u-mthondo' and in Sotho-Tswana is 'ntoto'
Example 3 Faulkner 121
MTWT seed, progeny, semen
The consonants spell out the word MTOWTO.
Interesting post.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: Explain the worship of Hathor(yator) in African circumcisions(I don't want to spill the beans but somebody has to talk about it).Especially Kalenjin,Meru,Kikuyu,dogon and Xhosa circumcisions which are very similar.I mean the going inside and out the TETA 'cow' 4 times naked.Were you taught astrology and also what is the significant of the menat necklace.In kalenjin we call MENKIT(it potrays the male and female stars of the universe.
Do not "spill the beans", this is a public domain, but the little I can tell you about Harthor is that she is the guardian and represent knowledge taught at initiation schools. Most of this school are located/centered around white sap producing trees like the Euphorbia trees. The white sap is the milk/knowledge taught/suckled.
The menat necklace is representation of the crowning of the spirit self through the seven spheres. The one who enacts the will of the Amun. I am a fourth grader of a total of ten grades when it comes to astrology. It involves understanding and the interpretation of the so called medu neter. The scripts are modalities informed first and foremost by nature before anything else then perfected through man's creations.
Through their decoding I was able to understand what informed the burying of the dead facing east, why the Owl was used as part of the glyph for 'house that look like a mountain' and why the Pyramid door was placed on the north side.
Posts: 45 | From: South Africa | Registered: Jul 2014
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quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: Explain the worship of Hathor(yator) in African circumcisions(I don't want to spill the beans but somebody has to talk about it).Especially Kalenjin,Meru,Kikuyu,dogon and Xhosa circumcisions which are very similar.I mean the going inside and out the TETA 'cow' 4 times naked.Were you taught astrology and also what is the significant of the menat necklace.In kalenjin we call MENKIT(it potrays the male and female stars of the universe.
Do not "spill the beans", this is a public domain, but the little I can tell you about Harthor is that she is the guardian and represent knowledge taught at initiation schools. Most of this school are located/centered around white sap producing trees like the Euphorbia trees. The white sap is the milk/knowledge taught/suckled.
The menat necklace is representation of the crowning of the spirit self through the seven spheres. The one who enacts the will of the Amun. I am a fourth grader of a total of ten grades when it comes to astrology. It involves understanding and the interpretation of the so called medu neter. The scripts are modalities informed first and foremost by nature before anything else then perfected through man's creations.
Through their decoding I was able to understand what informed the burying of the dead facing east, why the Owl was used as part of the glyph for 'house that look like a mountain' and why the Pyramid door was placed on the north side.
Agreed,this is a public domain,and it would be very insulting to the nandi people if they knew I posted their ancient knowledge here.I am not afraid of the curses being a Christian now.Isnt it funny that one of the curses is that you will turn white or mentally ill.I am a maasai who went through nandi circumcision.Out of respect for nandi people I will not post it here.but this December I am going to my rural village to attend circumcision ceremony,now with my understanding of Egyptology,I will pay attention to all the rituals.I will email you on the discoveries,once I am done.
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
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Above is the coat of arms for the North West Province in South Africa, at its helm is the symbol of Hathor/Apis of the sun resting between the horns.
A point to note is that Sunflowers turn their faces towards the east at sunrise. Over the course of the day, they move to track the sun from east to west, while at night they return to an eastward orientation.This motion is performed by motor cells in a flexible segment of the stem just below the bud. As the bud stage ends, the stem stiffens and the blooming stage is reached. The stem then freezes, typically in an eastward orientation. Bantu people used to bury their dead in a crouching position wrapped with cow hide facing East.
The Bantu Sotho-Tswana word for 'content' is 'Khotetse' which results in the expression 'Montu-hotep' written as 'Montu-khotetse'. The Zion Christian Church (ZCC), founded in 1924, is the largest of the African indigenous churches in South Africa. These churches "combine Christianity with some elements of traditional African belief" (Joyce 1989:295). It is customary for Church members to greet each other with the expression 'Khotso' meaning 'Peace' which is derived from the word 'Khotsofala' meaning 'to be satisfied' or 'Khotetse' meaninig 'content'. Among one of their spirited praise songs is the lyrics "Kae Kapa Kae Kgomo Re Ya Le Wena" which means "wherever you go the cow/bull, we will follow you". In the past, children were often addressed to as "Bana ba kgomo" meaning "Children of the cow/bull"
Kgomo or Khomo in the Sotho-Tswana language means a bull or cow. In ancient Egypt Cow= khm-t compared with today's languages we get In-khomo+ati, Inkhomati in Bantu-Seswati, Inkomazi in Bantu-Zulu.
Above is the 1914 Namibian Coat of Arms and Flag flanked by the images of Harthor with the manet necklace. Did all this symbolism spring forth from a vacuum?
Hathor seated with paraphanalia associated with Meht-urt in the above scenes. tomb no. 265 of Amenemipet. Hathor is ready to receive the dead into the underworld at the mountain of the west where the sun sets. One of Hathor's titles was nubt "the golden [one]." (cf. p.185. fig. 237 "The Cow of the West." Philippe Germond & Jacques Livet. An Egyptian Bestiary, Animals in Life and Religion in the Land of the Pharaohs. London. Thames & Hudson. 2001)
Below is a typical Himba grave(Namibia) "decorated" with cattle horns smeared with red ochre which represent the Sun.
Posts: 45 | From: South Africa | Registered: Jul 2014
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quote:Originally posted by MorolongMaropeng: Check your inbox
Use of Hathor symbolism by Southern African Bantu
Above is the coat of arms for the North West Province in South Africa, at its helm is the symbol of Hathor/Apis of the sun resting between the horns.
A point to note is that Sunflowers turn their faces towards the east at sunrise. Over the course of the day, they move to track the sun from east to west, while at night they return to an eastward orientation.This motion is performed by motor cells in a flexible segment of the stem just below the bud. As the bud stage ends, the stem stiffens and the blooming stage is reached. The stem then freezes, typically in an eastward orientation. Bantu people used to bury their dead in a crouching position wrapped with cow hide facing East.
The Bantu Sotho-Tswana word for 'content' is 'Khotetse' which results in the expression 'Montu-hotep' written as 'Montu-khotetse'. The Zion Christian Church (ZCC), founded in 1924, is the largest of the African indigenous churches in South Africa. These churches "combine Christianity with some elements of traditional African belief" (Joyce 1989:295). It is customary for Church members to greet each other with the expression 'Khotso' meaning 'Peace' which is derived from the word 'Khotsofala' meaning 'to be satisfied' or 'Khotetse' meaninig 'content'. Among one of their spirited praise songs is the lyrics "Kae Kapa Kae Kgomo Re Ya Le Wena" which means "wherever you go the cow/bull, we will follow you". In the past, children were often addressed to as "Bana ba kgomo" meaning "Children of the cow/bull"
Kgomo or Khomo in the Sotho-Tswana language means a bull or cow. In ancient Egypt Cow= khm-t compared with today's languages we get In-khomo+ati, Inkhomati in Bantu-Seswati, Inkomazi in Bantu-Zulu.
Above is the 1914 Namibian Coat of Arms and Flag flanked by the images of Harthor with the manet necklace. Did all this symbolism spring forth from a vacuum?
Hathor seated with paraphanalia associated with Meht-urt in the above scenes. tomb no. 265 of Amenemipet. Hathor is ready to receive the dead into the underworld at the mountain of the west where the sun sets. One of Hathor's titles was nubt "the golden [one]." (cf. p.185. fig. 237 "The Cow of the West." Philippe Germond & Jacques Livet. An Egyptian Bestiary, Animals in Life and Religion in the Land of the Pharaohs. London. Thames & Hudson. 2001)
Below is a typical Himba grave(Namibia) "decorated" with cattle horns smeared with red ochre which represent the Sun.
Intereresting
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
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