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Author Topic: If some of the prominent dynastic Egyptians were 25% Eurasian would it bother you?
the lioness,
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 -


Recent articles on back migration of Eurasians into Africa
include:


Ancient Ethiopian genome reveals extensive Eurasian admixture throughout the African continent
2015 Gallego Llorente et al.

www2.zoo.cam.ac.uk/manica/ms/2015_Gallego_Llorente_et_al_Science.pdf

______________


Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations
2012 Brenna M. Henn, Laura R. Botigué, et al.

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/articl
___________

The genetic prehistory of southern Africa
Pickrell 2012

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v3/n10/full/ncomms2140.html

______________________________________________________

^^^ Do you think the concept of "back migration" into Africa is racist?

Do you think it's merely a repackaging of the thinking that brought us the "Dynastic Race Theory" which said Egypt was founded by foreigners?

These articles all talk about a back migration of Eurasians into Africa, including the horn and South Africa, around 3000 years ago. Brenna Henn also talked about an earlier back migration 12,000 years ago.
The recent article on Mota an of Ethiopia says that at some point short of 4,500 years ago there was a significant wave of Eurasians into Africa, part of the 'Neolithic revolution' of farmers form the Middle East which had already begin 4,000 years prior to that somewhere around 7.5-10,000 years ago.
(the Neolithics who also went into Europe)

"But they never talk about African admixture in Europe"

- but they do look>

wiki:

"African Admixture in Europe:"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe

_____________

"but everything in wikipedia is wrong"

O.k. fine, then look at the bottom of the wikipedia page where there are numerous references to scientific articles about African admixture in Europe.

__________________________


But if you think it might be possible that these back migration articles could be to some extent true
my question is this:

Scientists have recently greatly improved techniques on ancient DNA analysis. There is a forthcoming analysis of Tutankhamun coming.

His DNA my be determined by these tests to be vastly African.

But let's suppose instead he turned out to be 20-25% Eurasian.

That percentage is similar to the non-African DNA percentage of the average African American.

So if Tutankhamun's DNA turned out to be 20-25% non-African would it bother you?

Are you convinced it's impossible?

I think it's possible but it may or may not turn out that way.

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Brada-Anansi
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Why?? how many here on this site could hold their genetics to some purist standard imposed on the ancients, and really the purist standard was never really a Black thing in the first place, even Malcolm X acknowledge it and moved on, that purist thing was an Aryanist mindset
that sought to impose a rule that said any amount of non African DNA meant non Black and therefore the reason any form of greatness or civilization found in Africa, It is not us who fears non African Dna it is folks with Aryanist mindset that typically sht their panties when they found the dreaded Sub-Saharan genetic contribution in their makeup,Genes do not build pyramids create laws and formulate complex religious concepts African people and culture do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xIQmFk1ok0
Klik me^

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Ish Geber
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Yawn, back migration is not racism. Multiple claims without proof is racism.


Altering data to manipulate is racism. Then trying to make it into "extensive" is even more racist.

People need to read rightwing theories of the 18and 19th century's. How they claimed they popped up all ver the planet. Creating civilizations.

This loon called lioness doesn't understand half of the material and the history attached to this. Yet at the same time will fight people who show that in recent history black Africans contributed to Europe's population, from only a few hundred years ago.

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the lioness,
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So in the articles above you believe the authors have altered the data to promote racism
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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
So in the articles above you believe the authors have altered the data to promote racism

How dumb are you to repeat the same stupid idea you've already bolstered.

I made my point clear several time. And I have showen the history of racism coped with supposed science, and how modern science was influenced by it. The folks who bolstered this history of multiple back migrations (was called different back then) were part of the eugenic movement, who you see as a non-racist movement. [Big Grin]

It's close to pathetic and it exposes your eurocentrism.


And I have only scratched the surface.


And yes, you are a racist of the worse kind, extremely bigoted. You have posted these "articles" how many times already, exactly?


When you have geneticist saying this following openly, then everything is possible.


quote:
Fury at DNA pioneer's theory: Africans are less intelligent than

One of the world's most eminent scientists was embroiled in an extraordinary row last night after he claimed that black people were less intelligent than white people and the idea that "equal powers of reason" were shared across racial groups was a delusion.

James Watson, a Nobel Prize winner for his part in the unravelling of DNA who now runs one of America's leading scientific research institutions, drew widespread condemnation for comments he made ahead of his arrival in Britain today for a speaking tour at venues including the Science Museum in London.

The 79-year-old geneticist reopened the explosive debate about race and science in a newspaper interview in which he said Western policies towards African countries were wrongly based on an assumption that black people were as clever as their white counterparts when "testing" suggested the contrary. He claimed genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/fury-at-dna-pioneers-theory-africans-are-less-intelligent-than-westerners-394898.html

Someone had to be responsible for civilization impulse in Africa. And since blacks are "less intelligent"?


Throughout the years this is what you have been promoting. And this is the argument, what I read coming from white/rightwing extremists.

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Clyde Winters
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It wouldn't bother me because there is no such thing as Eurasian genes. The genes are Africans, Eurasians just have mutations that identify them as a "separate" population.

.

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
It wouldn't bother ma because there is no such thing as Eurasian genes. The genes are Africans, Eurasians just have mutations that identify them as a "separate" population.

.

Yes, but they created this to segregate. The word Eurasian was a replacement for caucasoids. And it has become this hypothetical large land mass.


alTakruri spoke of this a while ago.

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zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
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"lioness" keeps making dupe threads of the same topic,
but the so-called "back-migration" doesnt mean much in that
the people "back-migrating" already looked like Africans.

 -

--------------------
Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began..

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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
"lioness" keeps making dupe threads of the same topic,
but the so-called "back-migration" doesnt mean much in that
the people "back-migrating" already looked like Africans.

Looking like Africans is not the same thing as being Africans. Ancient Egyptians, based on current ancient DNA and archaeological studies, were Africans. Aka black Africans.

Ancient Egyptians was an indigenous African kingdom. Mostly made up of people who stayed (and moved around) Africa during and after the OOA migrations. Like all the other African kingdoms (Wagadu, Ashanti, Zulu, Kush, etc). They were not migrants from outside Africa. They were indigenous Africans.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
[QB] "lioness" keeps making dupe threads of the same topic,
but the so-called "back-migration" doesnt mean much in that
the people "back-migrating" already looked like Africans.


If the period was 3,000 years ago aka around 1000 B.C. why would you assume that such people looked like Africans?

I'm not making dupe threads, each article had a different focus for example Pickrell sppke about the San
This latest article on Mota is talking about a very important aspect, the first ancient human genome from Africa to be sequenced

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tropicals redacted
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quote:
If the period was 3,000 years ago aka around 1000 B.C. why would you assume that such people looked like Africans?

With the skin tones of even the more heavily admixed modern populations being dark, it does make me think about the phenotype of the neighbouring populations that 'returned' to Africa.

I'm assuming that the 'Eurasian' populations would have arrived in the Horn from the part of the Arabia that lies within the tropics.

I've not read around this, but a question would be around how distinguishable they would have been from populations across the Red Sea in Africa.

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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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quote:
Originally posted by tropicals redacted:
quote:
If the period was 3,000 years ago aka around 1000 B.C. why would you assume that such people looked like Africans?

With the skin tones of even the more heavily admixed modern populations being dark, it does make me think about the phenotype of the neighbouring populations that 'returned' to Africa.

I'm assuming that the 'Eurasian' populations would have arrived in the Horn from the part of the Arabia that lies within the tropics.

I've not read around this, but a question would be around how distinguishable they would have been from populations across the Red Sea in Africa.

Ancient Egyptians were not dark-skinned Eurasians or Arabians migrants. They were (for the most part) indigenous black Africans. Not migrants, indigenous.

Green Sahara, Tasian, Badarian, Naqada, etc.

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tropicals redacted
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quote:
Ancient Egyptians were not dark-skinned Eurasians or Arabians migrants. They were (for the most part) indigenous black Africans. Not migrants, indigenous.

Green Sahara, Tasian, Badarian, Naqada, etc.

I know this. You know I know this.

The point was about what neighbouring populations who back migrated into Africa may have looked like.

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lamin
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Silly and trivial point. Europeans necessarily have extensive African admixture since for the first 150,000 years of human existence ALL humans lived in Africa and acquired African genes there. It's only some 50-60K YA that humans left Africa. Environmental changes provoked "organism surface changes" coupled with random changes to genomic(ACTG) structures also brought about coding changes.
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lamin
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Lioness,

Stop playing dumb. South Arabia is really an extension of Africa, so if people migrated there in the past and migrated back why would that make any difference in terms of phenotypical traits.

After all, Andaman Islanders, New Guineans, Fijians, and other Melanesians carry different genotypes from those found in Africa but in terms of phenotype they all look like Africans living in Africa.

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lamin
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quote:
Looking like Africans is not the same thing as being Africans. Ancient Egyptians, based on current ancient DNA and archaeological studies, were Africans. Aka black Africans.
.

Africa and Asia are simply landmasses that have been arbitrarily labeled continents. Europe is supposed to be a continent distinct from Asia, but in actual fact it is not.

A white South African living in South Africa is indeed an European. Why? Because he/she looks like an European. Similarly, a Fijian looks like an African--so he is a member of the African population cline.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
Similarly, a Fijian looks like an African--so he is a member of the African population cline.

that's incorrect
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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
Lioness,

Stop playing dumb. South Arabia is really an extension of Africa, so if people migrated there in the past and migrated back why would that make any difference in terms of phenotypical traits.

After all, Andaman Islanders, New Guineans, Fijians, and other Melanesians carry different genotypes from those found in Africa but in terms of phenotype they all look like Africans living in Africa.

Looking like Africans is not the same thing as being Africans. Ancient Egyptians are Africans (based on current genetic/archaeological knowledge).
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lamin
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quote:
that's incorrect
How so?
Fijians are morphologically exactly as Africans in Africa. It's not the place but the organism.

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
[QB] "lioness" keeps making dupe threads of the same topic,
but the so-called "back-migration" doesnt mean much in that
the people "back-migrating" already looked like Africans.


If the period was 3,000 years ago aka around 1000 B.C. why would you assume that such people looked like Africans?

I'm not making dupe threads, each article had a different focus for example Pickrell sppke about the San
This latest article on Mota is talking about a very important aspect, the first ancient human genome from Africa to be sequenced

The dupe is in the claim of continuous and multiple back migrations by cacasoids/ eurasians in the african interior to explain civilizations.

It's a classic/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS3XmXY6k2w


Universität Göttingen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koFbc1RD5Go


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2J49QbJW-k


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_RvID3pmbE

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
[QB]
quote:
that's incorrect
How so?
Fijians are morphologically exactly as Africans in Africa. It's not the place but the organism.

1) the Fijans do not have the exact same morphology as Africans

2) nor the same genetics

3) "African population cline" is not a known term
You made it up to sound offical

4) lioness productions till the casket drop

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
[QB]
quote:
that's incorrect
How so?
Fijians are morphologically exactly as Africans in Africa. It's not the place but the organism.

1) the Fijans do not have the exact same morphology as Africans

2) nor the same genetics

3) "African population cline" is not a known term
You made it up to sound offical

4) lioness productions till the casket drop

 -


 -

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the lioness,
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^ here we go with the eye balled picture spam rather than precise scienttific measurements and population analysis,
- an attempt to ignore genetics as well

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
^ here we go with the eye balled picture spam rather than precise scienttific measurements and population analysis,
- an attempt to ignore genetics as well

[Big Grin] This comes from the person who is known as a troll, liar and picture spam champ and greatest eyeballer of all time. Who 90% of the time shows inaccurate scientific measurements and population analysis. You are even more euronuty than I excepted, with all that fabricated B.S.. Bhahahahah.


Prof. Dr. Nell Irvin Painter (Princeton): Five skulls that made human taxonomy

Talk given at the international symposium "Johann Friedrich Blumenbach and the Culture of Science in Europe around 1800" in Göttingen, April 23rd/24th 2015.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwDwnD1iQGI


 -

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lamin
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quote:
1) the Fijans do not have the exact same morphology as Africans

2) nor the same genetics

3) "African population cline" is not a known term
You made it up to sound offical

4) lioness productions till the casket drop

Ignorant comment. I have seen Fijians in the flesh and I recently watched the World Rugby Championship played in Britain so I was able to see them over a long period--especially when they played South Africa which has some black players on its team. The Fijians were indistinguishable from the black South African players. Same fast and vigourous style of running, same African physiognomy emphasised by that specific African phenotypical marker-- the tightly curled hair type.

The African phenotype does range over a spectrum--even within restricted populations except with one general exception. The hair form. And even with exceptional cases the hair form never approaches the structure of the Eurasian or East Asian hair forms.

In sum, drop a 1,000 Fijians in Africa and they would fit in snugly because there would be at least one identical phenotypical counterpart in local populations of at least 5,000.

Plus you don't seem to understand that genomic changes take place only because of the periodic shuffling of the ACTG bases--usually about in the 5,000 to 10,000 years time ranges. The significance of the genomic changes is that they signify length of separation times(MRCA). On the other hand, surface phenotypical traits are determined mainly by the organism's adaptation to the environment--base on natural selection. assorted mating, bottlenecks, etc.

Thus African populations that have remained in similar ecologies and environments have retained very similar physiognomical traits.

In that regard Fijians belong to the "grand African population cline", technically Homo Sapiens Africanus

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
[qb]
quote:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,:

1) the Fijans do not have the exact same morphology as Africans

2) nor the same genetics

3) "African population cline" is not a known term
You made it up to sound official

4) lioness productions till the casket drop [/b]

Ignorant comment. I have seen Fijians in the flesh and I recently watched the World Rugby Championship played in Britain so I was able to see them over a long period--especially when they played South Africa which has some black players on its team. The Fijians were indistinguishable from the black South African players. Same fast and vigourous style of running, same African physiognomy emphasised by that specific African phenotypical marker-- the tightly curled hair type.


Physical anthologists measure skeletons and skulls with measuring devices. Watching a soccer game is not enough


quote:
Originally posted by lamin:

Thus African populations that have remained in similar ecologies and environments have retained very similar physiognomical traits.

In that regard Fijans belong to the "grand African population cline", technically Homo Sapiens Africanus

If you put the word "grand" next to "African population cline"" it doesn't make it a valid anthropological term.


This talk about Fijansis off topic.
Many Fijians could be said to have an African morphology, yes you are right, others have some Australian proportions, which is similar but with some differences.
However their genetics are largely different

The thread topic question is

if Tutankhamun's DNA turned out to be 20-25% non-African would it bother you?

That's a hypothetical question and I think hypothetical questions can be valid. I'm not saying Tutankhamun is 25% non-African he might be 100% African but what if he turns out to be 25% non-African?

If this is the case and the time period is 3,000 years ago or more recently, up to Tut's birthrate then such admixture more likely have come from the land route across Sinai.
If this is the case it could be foreigners coming in from the Levant.
And such types were noted and depicted in art by the Egyptians.

quote:
Originally posted by lamin:

The African phenotype does range over a spectrum--even within restricted populations except with one general exception. The hair form. And even with exceptional cases the hair form never approaches the structure of the Eurasian or East Asian hair forms.


There are quite a few prominent mummies from dynastic and pre-dynastic Egypt and Nubia that have wavy straight hair similar to some Eurasians. Some argue this is indigenous to Africa others don't.
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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
[qb]
quote:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,:

1) the Fijans do not have the exact same morphology as Africans

2) nor the same genetics

3) "African population cline" is not a known term
You made it up to sound official

4) lioness productions till the casket drop [/b]

Ignorant comment. I have seen Fijians in the flesh and I recently watched the World Rugby Championship played in Britain so I was able to see them over a long period--especially when they played South Africa which has some black players on its team. The Fijians were indistinguishable from the black South African players. Same fast and vigourous style of running, same African physiognomy emphasised by that specific African phenotypical marker-- the tightly curled hair type.


Physical anthologists measure skeletons and skulls with measuring devices. Watching a soccer game is not enough


quote:
Originally posted by lamin:

Thus African populations that have remained in similar ecologies and environments have retained very similar physiognomical traits.

In that regard Fijans belong to the "grand African population cline", technically Homo Sapiens Africanus

If you put the word "grand" next to "African population cline"" it doesn't make it a valid anthropological term.


This talk about Fijansis off topic.
Many Fijians could be said to have an African morphology, yes you are right, others have some Australian proportions, which is similar but with some differences.
However their genetics are largely different

The thread topic question is

if Tutankhamun's DNA turned out to be 20-25% non-African would it bother you?

That's a hypothetical question and I think hypothetical questions can be valid. I'm not saying Tutankhamun is 25% non-African he might be 100% African but what if he turns out to be 25% non-African?

If this is the case and the time period is 3,000 years ago or more recently, up to Tut's birthrate then such admixture more likely have come from the land route across Sinai.
If this is the case it could be foreigners coming in from the Levant.
And such types were noted and depicted in art by the Egyptians.

quote:
Originally posted by lamin:

The African phenotype does range over a spectrum--even within restricted populations except with one general exception. The hair form. And even with exceptional cases the hair form never approaches the structure of the Eurasian or East Asian hair forms.


There are quite a few prominent mummies from dynastic and pre-dynastic Egypt and Nubia that have wavy straight hair similar to some Eurasians. Some argue this is indigenous to Africa others don't.

It's funny how you ignore sources I have posted, for your own eurocentric convenient, yet keep on bashing Fijians. Yet, caucasoid skulls are supposedly the same, or similar. Classick. lol


"if Tutankhamun's DNA turned out to be 20-25% non-African would it bother you?" That is a remarkable funny question. Blumenbach 2.0


Overall commentary on the Blumenbach symposium

Universität Göttingen


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBuE9wHXF2s


Prof. Dr. Nell Irvin Painter (Princeton): Five skulls that made human taxonomy

Talk given at the international symposium "Johann Friedrich Blumenbach and the Culture of Science in Europe around 1800" in Göttingen, April 23rd/24th 2015.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwDwnD1iQGI


 -

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Ethan
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Since Horn of Africa populations are more Eurasian than 25%, even excluding semitic-speaking populations like Amhara or Tigray people for instance(who are almost 50-50), it's almost impossible that most Ancient Egyptian populations were any less than 50% Eurasian.

The study about Sudan (Dobon et al.) shows Beja people (speaking a very basal language in the Cushitic branch) are even more Eurasian than semitic-speaking populations of Eritrea-Ethiopia. Beja people being the closest Afroasiatic speaking population to Egyptian geographically (excluding Asian Bedouins and the atypical Siwa berberophones), they should represent a good-proxy for AEs if you don't like modern Copts.

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quote:
Originally posted by Ethan:
Since Horn of Africa populations are more Eurasian than 25%, even excluding semitic-speaking populations like Amhara or Tigray people for instance(who are almost 50-50), it's almost impossible that most Ancient Egyptian populations were any less than 50% Eurasian.

The study about Sudan (Dobon et al.) shows Beja people (speaking a very basal language in the Cushitic branch) are even more Eurasian than semitic-speaking populations of Eritrea-Ethiopia. Beja people being the closest Afroasiatic speaking population to Egyptian geographically (excluding Asian Bedouins and the atypical Siwa berberophones), they should represent a good-proxy for AEs if you don't like modern Copts.

Be careful about extrapolating modern populations' admixture onto ancient ones, especially in this region. Much of the Eurasian component in Horn Africans appears to be relatively recent; Mota, a Horn African whose remains are almost contemporary with the Great Pyramid's construction at Giza, has shown practically no Eurasian admixture at all. You need to catch up on your reading here.
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Ethan
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No, nothing suggests Eurasian influence is very recent in the region since Eurasian steppes-related/ANE admixture is absent in Cushitic populations. This pushes back the latest major wave Eurasians in the Horn to pre-bronze age times.

As for Mota, it's great to finally have an African autosomal aDNA but it's for now not very useful since it's an isolated sample. Besides, modern Ethiopia is very diverse ethnically and racially so I wouldn't be surprised if this Mota man lived in the vicinity of totally different populations genetically.

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quote:
Originally posted by Ethan:
Since Horn of Africa populations are more Eurasian than 25%, even excluding semitic-speaking populations like Amhara or Tigray people for instance(who are almost 50-50), it's almost impossible that most Ancient Egyptian populations were any less than 50% Eurasian.

The study about Sudan (Dobon et al.) shows Beja people (speaking a very basal language in the Cushitic branch) are even more Eurasian than semitic-speaking populations of Eritrea-Ethiopia. Beja people being the closest Afroasiatic speaking population to Egyptian geographically (excluding Asian Bedouins and the atypical Siwa berberophones), they should represent a good-proxy for AEs if you don't like modern Copts.

In terms of Dobon et al, how do you know that some of the Beja component you interpret as their 'African side' is not the result of their historic interactions with their Nilote Sudanese kin, and that some of their so-called "Eurasian" component is not what they and Cushitic speaking Ethiopians always had? I mean, some papers list this 'African side' in Bejas as averaging just ~33%. It would be interesting to see someone explain in detail how just 33% African ancestry results in a Beja phenotype, with dark skin, appreciable frequencies of individuals with afros and everything.

Genetic test have been conducted and what you call "Eurasian" among these people does not fit the oft-touted scenarios that it's a transplant from the Levant or Arabia.

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quote:
Originally posted by Ethan:
Since Horn of Africa populations are more Eurasian than 25%, even excluding semitic-speaking populations like Amhara or Tigray people for instance(who are almost 50-50), it's almost impossible that most Ancient Egyptian populations were any less than 50% Eurasian.

The study about Sudan (Dobon et al.) shows Beja people (speaking a very basal language in the Cushitic branch) are even more Eurasian than semitic-speaking populations of Eritrea-Ethiopia. Beja people being the closest Afroasiatic speaking population to Egyptian geographically (excluding Asian Bedouins and the atypical Siwa berberophones), they should represent a good-proxy for AEs if you don't like modern Copts.

I am not sure what you mean by "Eurasian"?

http://youtu.be/Pjf0qKdzmrc

 -


quote:
Colored dots indicate genetic diversity. Each new group outside of Africa represents a sampling of the genetic diversity present in its founder population. The ancestral population in Africa was sufficiently large to build up and retain substantial genetic diversity.
--Brenna M. Henna,
L. L. Cavalli-Sforzaa,1, and
Marcus W. Feldmanb,2
Edited by C. Owen Lovejoy, Kent State University, Kent, OH, and approved September 25, 2012 (received for review July 19, 2012)


quote:

According to the current data East Africa is home to nearly 2/3 of the world genetic diversity independent of sampling effect. Similar figure have been suggested for sub-Saharan Africa populations [1]. The antiquity of the east African gene pool could be viewed not only from the perspective of the amount of genetic diversity endowed within it but also by signals of uni-modal distribution in their mitochondrial DNA (Hassan et al., unpublished) usually taken as an indication of populations that have passed through ‘‘recent’’ demographic expansion [33], although in this case, may in fact be considered a sign of extended shared history of in situ evolution where alleles are exchanged between neighboring demes [34].


 -


  • Figure S1 Neighbor joining (NJ). NJ tree of the world populations based on MT-CO2 sequences. The evolutionary relationship of 171 sequences and evolutionary history was inferred using the Neighbor-Joining method. The optimal tree with the sum of branch length = 0.20401570 is shown. The evolutionary distances were computed using the Maximum Composite Likelihood method and are in the units of the number of base substitutions per site. Codon positions included were 1st+2nd+3rd+Noncoding. All positions containing gaps and missing data were eliminated from the dataset. There were a total of 543 positions in the final dataset. Phylogenetic analyses were conducted in MEGA4. Red dots: east Africa, Blue: Africa, Green: Asia, Yellow: Australia, Pink: Europe and gray: America. (TIF)



 -

  • Figure S2 Multidimensional Scaling Plot (MDS). The 2nd and 3rd coordinates of an MDS plot of 848 nuclear microsatellite loci from 469 individuals of 24 world populations. MDS uses pairwise IBS data based on the 848 loci generated by PLINK software and plotted using R version 2.15.0. The figure, besides a separate clustering of east Africans, indicates the substantial contribution of Africans and east Africans to the founding of populations of Europe and Asia.
    (TIF)



 -


  • Figure S3 Multidimensional Scaling Plot (MDS). The 3rd and 4th coordinates of an MDS plot of 848 Microsatellite loci, across the human genome in 469 individuals from 24 populations from Africa, Asia and Europe. MDS uses pairwise IBS data based on the 848 loci generated by PLINK software and plotted using R version 2.15.0. The central position of east Africans and some other Africans emphasizes the founding role of east African gene pool and the disparate alignment on coordinates along which the world populations were founded including populations of Aftica aligning along the 4th dimension.
    (TIF)



Figure 4. Multidimensional Scaling Plot (MDS). A. First and second coordinates of an MDS plot of 848 Microsatellite Marshfield data set across the human genome for 24 populations from Africa, Asia and Europe. MDS plot was constructed from pairwise differences FST generated by Arlequin program (Table S3). B. First and second coordinates of an MDS plot of 848 Microsatellite loci, across the human genome in 469 individuals from 24 populations from Africa, Asia and Europe. MDS uses pairwise IBS data based on the 848 loci generated by PLINK software and plotted using R version 2.15.0. East Africans cluster to the left of the plot, while Beja (red cluster in the middle), assumes intermediate position. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0097674.g004

  • Figure S4 Multidimensional Scaling Plot (MDS). First and second coordinates of an MDS plot based on MT-CO2 data set constructed from pairwise differences FST generated by Arlequin v3.11. Population code as follows: Nara: Nar, Kunama (Kun), Hidarb (Hid), Afar (Afa), Saho (Sah), Bilen (Bil), Tigre (Tgr), Tigrigna (Tig), Rashaida (Rsh), Nilotics (Nil), Beja (Bej), Ethiopians(Eth), Egyptians (Egy), Moroccans (Mor), Southern Africans (Sth), Pygmy (Pyg), Saudi Arabia (Sdi), Asia (Asi), Europe (Eur), Native Americans (NA), Australians (Ast), Nubians (Nub), Nuba (Nba)
    (TIF)




--Jibril Hirbo, Sara Tishkoff et al.

The Episode of Genetic Drift Defining the Migration of Humans out of Africa Is Derived from a Large East African Population Size

PLoS One. 2014; 9(5): e97674.
Published online 2014 May 20. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0097674

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4028218/pdf/pone.0097674.pdf

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Djehuti
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The problem with studies like the one Lioness posted in the OP is that geneticists truly haven't figured out the exact 'dividing line', so to speak, between Africans and Eurasians in Southwest Asia. It's known and virtually accepted by all experts that all Eurasians are derived from Africans, but exactly where in the genome this distinction first took place is a matter of debate just like with uniparental markers in the Y chromosome and mitochondria. What complicates things even more and adds confusion is the fact that there were multiple waves out of Africa in addition to possible back-migrations. That said, one may question exactly how "Eurasian" the back-migrants really were. For example, there was a 2013 study by Lazardis et al. on the forebears of Neolithic culture in Europe. Lazardis discovered an autosomal component strongly associated with the Neolithic immigrants which he calls “basal Eurasian” and is found in varying frequencies among modern populations of Europe, North Africa, Southwest Asia, and as far east as northern India, again all regions associated with Neolithic expansion. Lazardis postulates that this original ‘basal Eurasian’ population from which this component arose was genetically intermediate between the Mbuti pygmies of central Africa and say Persians of western Eurasia. This leaves a vast area of the Great Rift Valley--from east Africa to the Jordan Valley, and on either side of the Red Sea in the Nile Valley or Arabia where this population could have arisen. And even if one were to take Africa out of the picture and leave only Southwest Asia, they are still intermediate with Central African pygmies! It’s not even known when exactly these “basal Eurasians” arose, though since they are equally intermediate to west Eurasians like Iranians but very distant from east Eurasians, they either were part of the initial OOA but remained isolated while other populations branched off OR they represent a later African expansion. Either way, it appears they were not quite as divergent from Africans as many Euronuts would wish them to be. In fact, among the Neolithic skeletal remains of Stuttgart, southern Germany which Lazardis et al. studied, the individual which had the strongest sample of “basal Eurasian” component happened to be a male whose craniofacial traits were very African-like!

So again, while I do not at all deny back-migrations into Africa in ancient times as such has occurred even in more recent historical times, I do seriously call into question these sweeping claims of “extensive Eurasian admixture” throughout the whole African continent! This is no different from Euronut claims that YAP on the Y-chromosome (hg DE) is “Eurasian” therefore making the entire hg E clade “Eurasian” even though a study published last month by Ottoni et al. has confirmed the presence of D-M174 (D*) in West Africa!! I don’t know if this is the case with Lioness personally but I have noticed a trend among Euronuts where due to their miserable failure at white-washing the Egyptians and other North Africans, they then go for the crazier tactic of white-washing populations throughout Sub-Sahara including Pygmies and Khoisan which this OP study seems to be doing.

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the lioness,
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It's difficult to ignore the ongoing articles:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/10/07/science.aad2879.abstract


2015
Science DOI: 10.1126/science.aad2879

Ancient Ethiopian genome reveals extensive Eurasian admixture throughout the African continent

M. Gallego Llorente et al

Characterizing genetic diversity in Africa is a crucial step for most analyses reconstructing the evolutionary history of anatomically modern humans. However, historic migrations from Eurasia into Africa have affected many contemporary populations, confounding inferences. Here, we present a 12.5x coverage ancient genome of an Ethiopian male (‘Mota’) who lived approximately 4,500 years ago. We use this genome to demonstrate that the Eurasian backflow into Africa came from a population closely related to Early Neolithic farmers, who had colonized Europe 4,000 years earlier. The extent of this backflow was much greater than previously reported, reaching all the way to Central, West and Southern Africa, affecting even populations such as Yoruba and Mbuti, previously thought to be relatively unadmixed, who harbor 6-7% Eurasian ancestry

_____________________________

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009299

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
It's difficult to ignore the ongoing articles:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/10/07/science.aad2879.abstract


2015
Science DOI: 10.1126/science.aad2879

Ancient Ethiopian genome reveals extensive Eurasian admixture throughout the African continent

M. Gallego Llorente et al

Characterizing genetic diversity in Africa is a crucial step for most analyses reconstructing the evolutionary history of anatomically modern humans. However, historic migrations from Eurasia into Africa have affected many contemporary populations, confounding inferences. Here, we present a 12.5x coverage ancient genome of an Ethiopian male (‘Mota’) who lived approximately 4,500 years ago. We use this genome to demonstrate that the Eurasian backflow into Africa came from a population closely related to Early Neolithic farmers, who had colonized Europe 4,000 years earlier. The extent of this backflow was much greater than previously reported, reaching all the way to Central, West and Southern Africa, affecting even populations such as Yoruba and Mbuti, previously thought to be relatively unadmixed, who harbor 6-7% Eurasian ancestry

_____________________________

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009299

The only thing being ignored is the following:


quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
 -


 -

 -

 -

 -


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the lioness,
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Are you an idiot? You post data from the same article and say "The only thing being ignored is the following"
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Ish Geber
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Obviously someone got their feelings hurt. Show us where in your link any of the data I posted was shown?
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the lioness,
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The source of those charts is M. Gallego Llorente 2015, fool

You post the same research I posted and say it was ignored, dumb

Maybe you don't understand the relevance of it.
Modern Ethiopians have the same E clades as Mota man but modern Ethiopians have additional haplotypes Mota man does not have, meaning back migrations have occured since Mota's time

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
The source of those charts is M. Gallego Llorente 2015, fool

You post the same research I posted and say it was ignored, dumb

Show us where in the link? Why did you not post the relevance I posted?

So, because Mota man had "Hg E", back migrations have occurred? lol OK"

When are you going tell what these allelse are?


quote:
 -

Schematic of a serial found effect. We illustrate the effect of serial founder events on genetic diversity in the context of the OOA expansion. Colored dots indicate genetic diversity. Each new group outside of Africa represents a sampling of the genetic diversity present in its founder population. The ancestral population in Africa was sufficiently large to build up and retain substantial genetic diversity.

The third assumption is that there have been no dramatic postexpansion bottlenecks that differentially affected populations from which the serial migration began. If the source population for the expansion suffered a severe bottleneck that reduced its genetic diversity, we should see a poorer linear fit to the decline of heterozygosity with distance from Africa, or erroneously assign a population with higher genetic diversity as the source population. It is this third assumption we believe deserves additional consideration.

--Brenna M. Henna,
L. L. Cavalli-Sforzaa,1, and
Marcus W. Feldmanb,2
Edited by C. Owen Lovejoy, Kent State University, Kent, OH, and approved September 25, 2012 (received for review July 19, 2012)

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You didn't even post the primary source link !!!

the Gallego-Llorente
Suppliment

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2015/10/07/science.aad2879.DC1/Gallego-Llorente.SM.pdf

Posting that is relevant but to say it was ignored as if this material contradicts the conclusion is false

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
You didn't even post the primary source link !!!

the Gallego-Llorente
Suppliment

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2015/10/07/science.aad2879.DC1/Gallego-Llorente.SM.pdf

Posting that is relevant but to say it was ignored as if this material contradicts the conclusion is false

I asked for these supposed Eurasian alleles and how do these translate to a supposed "Hg". This is the part, where your post is obfuscated.


I posted the relevant part, I already posted the link in a thread prior to this.


quote:
Mota was placed close to the Ethiopian samples (Fig. 1, A), in between the clusters formed by the Ari and the Sandawe (but very close to an Ari individual that stands out from the rest of that group). The Ari can be split into two castes, Ari Cultivator and Ari Blacksmith, which share a common origin within the last 4,500 years (62). Since data on a larger number of SNPs are available for Ethiopian populations (4), we repeated the PCA using this higher quality dataset (processed as in SM S6), which gave us 484,161 usable SNPs that could be called in Mota. Once again, Mota fell in between the Ari and the Sandawe cluster (Fig. S5).

[...]


We computed D(X, Mota; AltaiNea, CommonAncestor), where X was French, Han, Yoruba, or Mbuti. CommonAncestor refers to the reconstructed alleles of the common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees. As expected, French and Han have significantly positive D values (Table S8), indicating that they are both more similar to Neanderthal than Mota is. The two African genomes, Yoruba and Mbuti, also have slightly positive D values, indicating that they are slightly more similar to Neanderthal than Mota is. This result is likely driven by the West Eurasian component found in modern Africans.

[...]


S13. Phenotypic information from Mota.

Using samtools, we called variants at positions that have been previously reported to encode for phenotypes of interest, such as hair, skin and eye colour, lactase persistence and altitude adaptation.
Hair, skin and eye color

The 8-plex (69) and Hirisplex systems (70) were used to predict skin, eye and hair colour. We only used genotypes which had a minimum of 3x coverage in Mota, and only bases with quality ≥20 were considered. Skin colour could not be determined although Mota did not have common European variants associated with light skin colour (rs16891982 and rs1426654, see Table S11). Using the Hirisplex prediction system (Table S12), Mota was determined to have had brown eyes (p-value = 0.997) and dark (p-value = 0.996), probably black (p-value = 0.843) hair.


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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] The source of those charts is M. Gallego Llorente 2015, fool

You post the same research I posted and say it was ignored, dumb

Show us where in the link? Why did you not post the relevance I posted?

So, because Mota man had "Hg E", back migrations have occurred? lol OK"


lol, you don't understand the article

Because Mota carried E like modern Ethiopians but didn't have some of the haplogroups that modern Ethiopians have those other haplogroups of modern Ethiopians are Eurasian.
Mota is a comparison


quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:


I posted the relevant part, I already posted the link in a thread prior to this.


[QUOTE] The two African genomes, Yoruba and Mbuti, also have slightly positive D values, indicating that they are slightly more similar to Neanderthal than Mota is. This result is likely driven by the West Eurasian component found in modern Africans.

[...]




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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] The source of those charts is M. Gallego Llorente 2015, fool

You post the same research I posted and say it was ignored, dumb

Show us where in the link? Why did you not post the relevance I posted?

So, because Mota man had "Hg E", back migrations have occurred? lol OK"


lol, you don't understand the article

Because Mota carried E like modern Ethiopians but didn't have some of the haplogroups that modern Ethiopians have those other haplogroups of modern Ethiopians are Eurasian.

LOL I am asking for the alleles and markers which make up this supposed Eurasian Hg. LOL


quote:
According to the current data East Africa is home to nearly 2/3 of the world genetic diversity independent of sampling effect. Similar figure have been suggested for sub-Saharan Africa populations [1]. The antiquity of the east African gene pool could be viewed not only from the perspective of the amount of genetic diversity endowed within it but also by signals of uni-modal distribution in their mitochondrial DNA (Hassan et al., unpublished) usually taken as an indication of populations that have passed through ‘‘recent’’ demographic expansion [33], although in this case, may in fact be considered a sign of extended shared history of in situ evolution where alleles are exchanged between neighboring demes [34].

[...]

The figure, besides a separate clustering of east Africans, indicates the substantial contribution of Africans and east Africans to the founding of populations of Europe and Asia.


--Jibril Hirbo, Sara Tishkoff et al.

The Episode of Genetic Drift Defining the Migration of Humans out of Africa Is Derived from a Large East African Population Size

PLoS One. 2014; 9(5): e97674.
Published online 2014 May 20. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0097674


quote:
Fig. S8. Phylogeny used in f4 ratio analysis. Phylogeny composed of three populations A, B, and C, and an outgroup O all descending from the same ancestor R. An additional population, X, is a mixture of B and C.

[...]

Table S4. Mutations defining the E1b1 haplogroup of Mota. Mutations are reported with respect to the Reconstructed Sapiens Reference Sequence. Mutations found in our sample, which are present in the reported haplogroup are shown here unless marked in bold or underlined. Underlined mutations are those present in our samples but not associated with the haplogroup determined. Bold mutations are those expected for the assigned haplogroup but absent from the sample.

[...]

Previous page: Table. S5. The proportion of West Eurasian ancestry for all African populations in our global panel. λYoruba,Druze gives estimates using Yoruba as the non-admixed reference and Druze as the source, λMota,Druze using Mota as the non-admixed reference and Druze as the source, and λMota,LBK using Mota as the non-admixed reference and LBK as a source. SE are the standard errors for these quantities.

[...]

Table S6. D statistics determining the possible source of West Eurasian ancestry in Yoruba. D(Yoruba, Mota; X, Han); where X is a range of European populations that represent possible sources of gene flow.

[...]

Table S7. D statistics determining the possible source of West Eurasian ancestry in Mbuti. D(Mbuti, Mota; X, Han); where X is a range of European populations that represent possible sources of gene flow.

[...]

Table S8. Neanderthal component D statistics. D(AltaiNea, CAnc; Mota, X), where AltaiNea is the Altai Neanderthal, MezNea is the Mezmaiskaya Neanderthal, CAnc is the reconstructed human-chimpanzee common ancestor, Mota is the reference and X is the tested genome.

[...]

Table S9. Neanderthal component based on f4 ratio. f4 (AltaiNea, Denisovan; X, Mota) / f4 (AltaiNea, Denisovan; X, MezNea), where Mota is the unadmixed reference and X is the tested population.

[...]

Table S10. Denisovan component D statistics. DYoruba, D(Denisovan, CAnc; Yoruba, X), where Yoruba is the reference and X is the tested genome, and DMota, D(Denisovan, CAnc; Mota, X), where CAnc is the reconstructed human-chimpanzee common ancestor, Mota is the reference and X is the tested genome.

---M. Gallego Llorente

Ancient Ethiopian genome reveals extensive Eurasian admixture throughout the African continent

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] The source of those charts is M. Gallego Llorente 2015, fool

You post the same research I posted and say it was ignored, dumb

Show us where in the link? Why did you not post the relevance I posted?

So, because Mota man had "Hg E", back migrations have occurred? lol OK"


lol, you don't understand the article

Because Mota carried E like modern Ethiopians but didn't have some of the haplogroups that modern Ethiopians have those other haplogroups of modern Ethiopians are Eurasian.
Mota is a comparison


quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:


I posted the relevant part, I already posted the link in a thread prior to this.


quote:
The two African genomes, Yoruba and Mbuti, also have slightly positive D values, indicating that they are slightly more similar to Neanderthal than Mota is. This result is likely driven by the West Eurasian component found in modern Africans.

[...]




WHAT IS EURASIAN LOL?



quote:

Table S8. Neanderthal component D statistics. D(AltaiNea, CAnc; Mota, X), where AltaiNea is the Altai Neanderthal, MezNea is the Mezmaiskaya Neanderthal, CAnc is the reconstructed human-chimpanzee common ancestor, Mota is the reference and X is the tested genome.


The absence of a West Eurasian component in Mota supports the dating of the backflow into Africa, which, at ~3.5kya, is younger than our ancient genome (dated to 4.5 cya).

Given that Mota predates the backflow, it potentially provides a better unadmixed African reference than contemporary Yoruba. Thus, we recomputed the extent of the West Eurasian component in contemporary African populations using Mota, λMota,Druze, instead of Yoruba in our f4 ratio. By using this better reference, we estimated West Eurasian admixture to be significantly larger than previously estimated, with an additional 6-9% of the genome of contemporary African populations being of Eurasian origin (Fig. S6, and Table S5). Importantly, this analysis shows that the West Eurasian component can be found also in West Africa (Fig. S6), albeit at lower levels 13 than in Eastern Africa. Importantly, a sizeable West Eurasian component is also found in the Yoruba and Mbuti, which are often used a representative of an unadmixed African population.


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quote:

The Spread of Islam in West Africa: Containment, Mixing, and Reform from the Eighth to the Twentieth Century
Margari Hill, Stanford University
January 2009


While the presence of Islam in West Africa dates back to eighth century, the spread of the faith in regions that are now the modern states of Senegal, Gambia, Guinea, Burkina Faso, Niger, Mali and Nigeria, was in actuality, a gradual and complex process. Much of what we know about the early history of West Africa comes from medieval accounts written by Arab and North African geographers and historians. Specialists have used several models to explain why Africans converted to Islam. Some emphasize economic motivations, others highlight the draw of Islam’s spiritual message, and a number stress the prestige and influence of Arabic literacy in facilitating state building. While the motivations of early conversions remain unclear, it is apparent that the early presence of Islam in West Africa was linked to trade and commerce with North Africa. Trade between West Africa and the Mediterranean predated Islam, however, North African Muslims intensified the Trans-Saharan trade. North African traders were major actors in introducing Islam into West Africa. Several major trade routes connected Africa below the Sahara with the Mediterranean Middle East, such as Sijilmasa to Awdaghust and Ghadames to Gao. The Sahel, the ecological transition zone between the Sahara desert and forest zone, which spans the African continent, was an intense point of contact between North Africa and communities south of the Sahara. In West Africa, the three great medieval empires of Ghana, Mali, and the Songhay developed in Sahel.

The history of Islam in West Africa can be explained in three stages, containment, mixing, and reform. In the first stage, African kings contained Muslim influence by segregating Muslim communities, in the second stage African rulers blended Islam with local traditions as the population selectively appropriated Islamic practices, and finally in the third stage, African Muslims pressed for reforms in an effort to rid their societies of mixed practices and implement Shariah. This three-phase framework helps sheds light on the historical development of the medieval empires of Ghana, Mali, and Songhay and the 19th century jihads that led to the establishment of the Sokoto Caliphate in Hausaland and the Umarian state in Senegambia.

Containment: Ghana and the Takrur
The early presence of Islam was limited to segregated Muslim communities linked to the trans-Saharan trade. In the 11th century Andalusian geographer, Al-Bakri, reported accounts of Arab and North African Berber settlements in the region. Several factors led to the growth of the Muslim merchant-scholar class in non-Muslim kingdoms. Islam facilitated long distance trade by offering useful sets of tools for merchants including contract law, credit, and information networks. Muslim merchant-scholars also played an important role in non-Muslim kingdoms as advisors and scribes in Ghana. They had the crucial skill of written script, which helped in the administration of kingdoms. Many Muslim were also religious specialists whose amulets were prized by non-Muslims.

Merchant-scholars also played a large role in the spread of Islam into the forest zones. These included the Jakhanke merchant-scholars in [name region], the Jula merchants in Mali and the Ivory Coast, and the Hausa merchants during the nineteenth century in Nigeria, Ghana, and Guinea Basau,]. Muslim communities in the forest zones were minority communities often linked to trading diasporas. Many of the traditions in the forest zones still reflect the tradition of Al-Hajj Salim Suwari, a late fifteenth-century Soninke scholar, who focused on responsibilities of Muslims in a non-Muslim society. His tradition, known as the Suwarian tradition, discouraged proselytizing, believing that God would bring people around to Islam in his own ways. This tradition worked for centuries in the forest zone including the present day, where there are vibrant Muslim minority communities.

Although modern Ghana is unrelated to the ancient kingdom of Ghana, modern Ghana chose the name as a way of honoring early African history. The boundaries of the ancient Kingdom encompassed the Middle Niger Delta region, which consists of modern-day Mali and parts of present-day Mauritania and Senegal. This region has historically been home to the Soninken Malinke, Wa’kuri and Wangari peoples. Fulanis and the Southern Saharan Sanhaja Berbers also played a prominent role in the spread of Islam in the Niger Delta region. Large towns emerged in the Niger Delta region around 300 A.D. Around the eighth century, Arab documents mentioned ancient Ghana and that Muslims crossed the Sahara into West Africa for trade. North African and Saharan merchants traded salt, horses, dates, and camels from the north with gold, timber, and foodstuff from regions south of the Sahara. Ghana kings, however, did not permit North African and Saharan merchants to stay overnight in the city. This gave rise to one of the major features of Ghana—the dual city; Ghana Kings benefited from Muslim traders, but kept them outside centers of power.

From the eighth to the thirteenth century, contact between Muslims and Africans increased and Muslim states began to emerge in the Sahel. Eventually, African kings began to allow Muslims to integrate. Accounts during the eleventh century reported a Muslim state called Takrur in the middle Senegal valley. Around this time, the Almoravid reform movement began in Western Sahara and expanded throughout modern Mauritania, North Africa and Southern Spain. The Almoravids imposed a fundamentalist version of Islam, in an attempt to purify beliefs and practices from syncretistic or heretical beliefs. The Almoravid movement imposed greater uniformity of practice and Islamic law among West African Muslims. The Almoravids captured trade routes and posts, leading to the weakening of the Takruri state. Over the next hundred years, the empire dissolved into a number of small kingdoms.

Mixing: The Empires of Mali and Songhay
Over the next few decades, African rulers began to adopt Islam while ruling over populations with diverse faiths and cultures. Many of these rulers blended Islam with traditional and local practices in what experts call the mixing phase. Over time, the population began to adopt Islam, often selectively appropriating aspects of the faith.

The Mali Empire (1215-1450) rose out of the region’s feuding kingdoms. At its height, the empire of Mali composed most of modern Mali, Senegal, parts of Mauritania and Guinea. It was a multi-ethnic state with various religious and cultural groups. Muslims played a prominent role in the court as counselors and advisors. While the empire’s founder, Sunjiata Keita, was not himself a Muslim, by 1300 Mali kings became Muslim. The most famous of them was Mansa Musa (1307-32). He made Islam the state religion and in 1324 went on pilgrimage from Mali to Mecca. Musa’s pilgrimage to Mecca showed up in European records because of his display of wealth and lavish spending. Apparently, his spending devalued the price of gold in Egypt for several years. The famed 14th century traveler Ibn Battuta visited Mali shortly after Mansa Musa’s death. By the fifteenth century, however, Mali dissolved largely due to internal dissent and conflicts with the Saharan Tuareg.

Several Muslim polities developed farther east, including the Hausa city-states and the Kingdom of Kanem in modern Northern Nigeria. Hausaland was comprised of a system of city-states (Gobir, Katsina, Kano, Zamfara, Kebbi and Zazzau). The Kingdom of Kanem near Lake Chad flourished as a commercial center from the ninth to 14th century. The state became Muslim during the ninth century. Its successor state was Bornu. Modern day Northern Nigeria comprises much of Hausaland and Bornu in the east. By the 14th century all ruling elites of Hausaland were Muslim, although the majority of the population did not convert until the 18th century jihads. Much like the rulers of earlier Muslims states, the rulers of Hausaland blended local practices and Islam.

Emerging from the ruins of the Mali Empire, the Mande Songhay Empire (1430s to 1591) ruled over a diverse and multi-ethnic empire. Although Islam was the state religion, the majority of the population still practiced their traditional belief systems. Many rulers, however, combined local practices with Islam. Sonni Ali, the ruler from 1465-1492, persecuted Muslim scholars, particularly those who criticized pagan practices.

During the 13th century, Mansa Musa conquered the Kingdom of Gao. Two centuries later, the kingdom of Gao rose again as the Songhay Empire. Sonni Ali captured much of the Empire of Mali. Under [Aksia Muhammad] 1493-1529), the Songhay’s borders extended far beyond any previous West African empire.

The Songhay state patronized Islamic institutions and sponsored public buildings, mosques and libraries. One notable example is the Great Mosque of Jenne, which was built in the 12th or 13th century. The Great Mosque of Jenne remains the largest earthen building in the world. By the 16th century there were several centers of trade and Islamic learning in the Niger Bend region, most notably the famed Timbuktu. Arab chroniclers tell us that the pastoral nomadic Tuareg founded Timbuktu as a trading outpost. The city’s multicultural population, regional trade, and Islamic scholarship fostered a cosmopolitan environment. In 1325, the city’s population was around 10,000. At its apex, in the 16th century, the population is estimated to have been between 30,000 and 50,000. Timbuktu attracted scholars from throughout the Muslim world.

The Songhay’s major trading partners were the Merenid dynasty in the Maghrib (north-west Africa) and the Mamluks in Egypt. The Songhay Empire ended when Morocco conquered the state in 1591. The fall of the Songhay marked the decline of big empires in West Africa. Merchant scholars in Timbuktu and other major learning centers dispersed, transferring learning institutions from urban-based merchant families to rural pastoralists throughout the Sahara. During this period there was an alliance between scholars, who were also part of the merchant class, and some warriors who provided protection for trade caravans. Around the 12th and 13th century, mystical Sufi brotherhood orders began to spread in the region. Sufi orders played an integral role in the social order of African Muslim societies and the spread of Islam through the region well into the 20th century.

Reform in the Nineteenth Century: Umarian Jihad in Senegambia and the Sokoto Caliphate in Hausaland
The 19th century jihad movements best exemplify the third phase in the development Islam in West Africa. Specialists have highlighted the ways in which literate Muslims became increasingly aware of Islamic doctrine and began to demand reforms during this period. This period was significant in that it marks a shift in Muslim communities that practiced Islam mixed with “pagan” rituals and practices to societies that completely adopted Islamic values and established Shariah

Scholars have debated the origins of the 19th century West African jihads. The first known jihad in West Africa was in Mauritania during the 17th century. At that time, Mauritanian society was divided along scholar and warrior lineages. The scholar Nasir al-Din led a failed jihad called Sharr Bubba. Unlike the failed jihad in Mauritania, the 19th century jihad movements in Senegambia and Hausaland (in what is now northern Nigeria) successfully overthrew the established order and transformed the ruling and landowning class.

In 1802, Uthman Dan Fodio, a Fulani scholar, led a major jihad. With the help of a large Fulani cavalry and Hausa peasants, Uthman Dan Fodio overthrew the region’s Hausa rulers and replaced them with Fulani emirs. The movement led to centralization of power in the Muslim community, education reforms, and transformations of law. Uthman Dan Fodio also sparked a literary revival with a production of religious work that included Arabic texts and vernacular written in Arabic script. His heirs continued the legacy of literary production and education reform.

Uthman Dan Fodio’s movement inspired a number of jihads in the region. A notable example was the jihad of al Hajj Umar Tal, a Tukulor from the Senegambia region. In the 1850s, Umar Tal returned from pilgrimage claiming to have received spiritual authority over the West African Tijani Sufi order. From the 1850s to 1860s, he conquered three Bambara kingdoms. After Tal’s defeat by the French at Médine in 1857 and the subsequent defeat of his son in the 1880s, his followers fled westward spreading the influence of the Tijani order in Northern Nigeria. Although the French controlled the region, colonial authorities met another formidable enemy. Samori Toure rose up against the French and gathered a 30,000 strong army. Following his death, French forces defeated Toure’s son in 1901. The French occupation of Senegal forced the final development of Islamic practice where leaders of Sufi orders became allies with colonial administrators.

Although European powers led to the decline of the Umarian state and the Sokoto Caliphate, colonial rule did little to stop the spread of Islam in West Africa. The British used anti-slavery rhetoric as they began their conquest of the Sokoto Caliphate in 1897. The Sokoto Caliphate ended in 1903, when British troops conquered the state. Colonial authorities attempted to maintain the established social order and ruled through Northern Nigerian emirs. Despite the efforts of colonial authorities, colonialism had far reaching effects on Northern Nigerian Muslim society. Modern communication and transportation infrastructure facilitated increased exchange between Muslim communities. As a result, Islam began to spread rapidly in new urban centers and regions such as Yoruba land. Similarly in the French Sudan, Islam actually spread in rates far greater than the previous centuries. Although Muslims lost political power, Muslim communities made rapid inroads in the West Africa during the early 20th century.

The three stages of containment, mixing, and reform can shed light on the historical developments of Islam in this region. The trans-Saharan trade was an important gateway for the spread of Islam in Africa. The legacy of the medieval empires and nineteenth century reform movements continues to have relevance in present day Senegal, Gambia, Mali, Nigeria, Burkina Faso, Nigeria, as well as many neighboring communities. Muslim communities have existed in West Africa for over a millennium, pointing to the fact that Islam is a significant part of the African landscape.

http://spice.fsi.stanford.edu/docs/the_spread_of_islam_in_west_africa_containment_mixing_and_reform_from_the_eighth_to_the_twentieth_century
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Djehuti
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First...

 -

Now...

 -

Yet it still protests and complains.

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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:
Originally posted by Ethan:
Since Horn of Africa populations are more Eurasian than 25%, even excluding semitic-speaking populations like Amhara or Tigray people for instance(who are almost 50-50), it's almost impossible that most Ancient Egyptian populations were any less than 50% Eurasian.

The study about Sudan (Dobon et al.) shows Beja people (speaking a very basal language in the Cushitic branch) are even more Eurasian than semitic-speaking populations of Eritrea-Ethiopia. Beja people being the closest Afroasiatic speaking population to Egyptian geographically (excluding Asian Bedouins and the atypical Siwa berberophones), they should represent a good-proxy for AEs if you don't like modern Copts.

In terms of Dobon et al, how do you know that some of the Beja component you interpret as their 'African side' is not the result of their historic interactions with their Nilote Sudanese kin, and that some of their so-called "Eurasian" component is not what they and Cushitic speaking Ethiopians always had? I mean, some papers list this 'African side' in Bejas as averaging just ~33%. It would be interesting to see someone explain in detail how just 33% African ancestry results in a Beja phenotype, with dark skin, appreciable frequencies of individuals with afros and everything.

Genetic test have been conducted and what you call "Eurasian" among these people does not fit the oft-touted scenarios that it's a transplant from the Levant or Arabia.

Indeed, modern populations not necessarily reflect the ancient populations of the same region. Also, I can't help but notice that ever since Egyptologists have noted a close similarity between the Beja and ancient Egyptians both in appearance and in language, many are quick to latch on to studies about Beja being Eurasian admixed such as the Hassan et al. 2008 study. The problem with this is that the Beja ethnic group is not as homogeneous as many think. The Beja are divided into 9 clans such as the Bisharin, Hedareb, Hadendoa, Amarar, Beni-Amer, Hallenga, etc. etc. It is a historical fact that many of these clans have intermarried with surrounding neighbors with some intermarrying with Nilo-Saharan speakers while other, especially more prominent clans have intermarried with Arab bedouin. Therefore modern Beja being reflective of their ancient ancestors is as much accurate as modern Egyptians being reflective of theirs.
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"Egyptologists have noted a close similarity between the Beja and ancient Egyptians both in appearance and in language, many are quick to latch on to studies about Beja being Eurasian admixed such as the Hassan et al. 2008 study."


It's like a game, when ever you show them "A" (African), they quickly reply with "B" (eurasian). See we were there already, that is why "B" effected "A".

The further "A" goes back, they more they'll stretch the "B" component. The "B" component becomes elastic, a very flexible component.


I have seen some claim that the B-component dates back 40Kya in Africa, as the foundation for what became ancient Egypt. They now found the magic potion, Neanderthals.

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Djehuti
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^ No kidding. Recall the whole debacle of Maasai having neanderthal DNA here, here, and here.

There's no rest for the wicked or the insanely desperate. [Big Grin]

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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ No kidding. Recall the whole debacle of Maasai having neanderthal DNA here, here, and here.

There's no rest for the wicked or the insanely desperate. [Big Grin]

Even more remarkable is, that the Neanderthal lived for about 300 thousand years, yet could not enter Africa all this time, as "they" claim. However, Neanderthal specimen has been found at the Levant. And all over Europe and Asia?
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