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DD'eDeN
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http://egyptsearchdetoxed.blogspot.com/2016/07/why-basal-eurasian-is-still-african-as.html
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zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
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Interesting writeup. Author says:

Let's move on to the other arguments against an African origin of Basal Eurasian. Not necessarily Lazaridis et al, but various commentators have claimed that the higher proportion of Basal Eurasian in Hotu III (~60%) than in the sampled Natufians (~40%) necessarily makes Basal Eurasian inconsistent with an African origin. This is a fallacy, because from the skeletal remains this was already self-evident. For instance, in my previous post on Basal Eurasians I made it clear that Natufian sites have yielded skeletal remains with some appearing more tropically adapted than others. Therefore, to those who subscribe to the view that Basal Eurasian is African, it's not an earth-shattering revelation that some Natufian samples don't have as much Basal Eurasian as neighboring sites. In order to falsify that Basal Eurasian is African, skeletal remains from the Shuqbah and Athlit caves analyzed by Keith have to be sampled. This is what Keith 1931 has to say about these Natufians in particular:

"In physical type the late cave people of Athlit were the same as the Natufians of Shuqbah. An elaborate comparison of the human remains found by Miss Garrod in the Capsian deposits of Shuqbah with those from the Aurignacian and mesolithic deposits at Athlit has led me to the conclusion that all represent the same racial stock. The skull from Shuqbah, depicted in figs. 67, 68, may be accepted as a type. Especially remarkable was the nasal development of this cave people—often almost negro-like in the flattening of the nasal bridge and in the width of the inter-orbital septum. The nasal bones, although their transverse arch is depressed, still have remarkable dimensions—such as might herald the pronounced nasal development of later Semitic races (figs. 67, 68)."
Keith 1931 pp. 221-22

--------------------
Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began..

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
http://egyptsearchdetoxed.blogspot.com/2016/07/why-basal-eurasian-is-still-african-as.html

the author is Swenet
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
Why Basal Eurasian is Still African as of Lazaridis et al 2016

http://egyptsearchdetoxed.blogspot.com/2016/07/why-basal-eurasian-is-still-african-as.html

I can't take this blog seriously. Lazaridis et al 2016 is in the title yet the Lazaridis article's title is not mentioned or in references.

This is the article's title:

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/16/059311

The genetic structure of the world's first farmers

2016 Iosif Lazaridis, et al

____________________________

Had the title of the Lazaridis et al 2016 been mentioned in the first paragraph we would see more clearly the disconnect as the blog author you know who speaks about morphology when we are dealing with in Lazaridis et al 2016 a genetics paper!

After making the argument that skull type = African he later goes on to speak about Hg L but never mentions the E1 clades of the Lazaridis article specific to the Natufians

 -

LINK

http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2016/06/16/059311.DC1/059311-1.pdf


_______________________

wikipedia:

E-Z830 (E1b1b1b2)

This is a recently discovered subclade which has not yet been included in most haplogroup trees, E-Z830 includes the confirmed subclades of E-M123, E-V1515 (E-M293, E-V42, E-V6, E-V92), and E-Z830*, and is a sibling clade to E-L19. Currently, the E-M35 phylogeny project recognizes four distinct clusters of Z830* carriers, two of which are exclusively Jewish in origin. The remaining two are significantly smaller, and include scattered individuals in Germany, Spain, Latin America, Egypt, and Ethiopia.

source:

http://www.haplozone.net/e3b/project/cluster/3

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xyyman
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Saw the same thing. That is why I don't take Swenet seriously. He speaks with a miss-mush of ideas. He is all over the place. Schizoid? he doesn't stay focused. BUT, he is an excellent sounding writer if 'he' understand what his premise is.
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Swenet
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I'm satisfied with the article. Google is rewarding me with views. I'm pretty sure it will be on the first search result page for the 'Basal Eurasian' phrase soon, just like my previous article has been for a year and still is.

Shout out to DD'eDeN for introducing me to that Moroccan aDNA abstract. As you can see, I used it. Thanks bruh.

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Askia_The_Great
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^^^Yep I see you're blog one the first page of Google when I search in "Basal Eurasian."
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beyoku
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
Why Basal Eurasian is Still African as of Lazaridis et al 2016

[qb] http://egyptsearchdetoxed.blogspot.com/2016/07/why-basal-eurasian-is-still-african-as.html

I can't take this blog seriously. Lazaridis et al 2016 is in the title yet the Lazaridis article's title is not mentioned or in references.

The article is excellent and is written by/for those that are already familiar with the published data and where it sits. The article IS not, and WAS not written for wiki scholars to be spoon-fed links to information that they should already know about and have on their computer. Anyone that needs the Lazaridis link or needs him to say 'E-Z830' has other issues to tackle as the analysis is already over their head. [Roll Eyes] You cannot "take it seriously" because you don't take your research and study seriously. Remember, your origin on this board began with trolling.


@ Swenet, Excellent work. Have you considered a scenario where seemingly "extinct" North African genetic components exist in Ancient remains we are assuming are SSA based on Phenotype? Like the soon to be released data from Lake Turkana?

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
Why Basal Eurasian is Still African as of Lazaridis et al 2016

[qb] http://egyptsearchdetoxed.blogspot.com/2016/07/why-basal-eurasian-is-still-african-as.html

I can't take this blog seriously. Lazaridis et al 2016 is in the title yet the Lazaridis article's title is not mentioned or in references.

The article is excellent and is written by/for those that are already familiar with the published data and where it sits. The article IS not, and WAS not written for wiki scholars to be spoon-fed links to information that they should already know about and have on their computer. Anyone that needs the Lazaridis link or needs him to say 'E-Z830' has other issues to tackle as the analysis is already over their head. [Roll Eyes] You cannot "take it seriously" because you don't take your research and study seriously. Remember, your origin on this board began with trolling.


@ Swenet, Excellent work. Have you considered a scenario where seemingly "extinct" North African genetic components exist in Ancient remains we are assuming are SSA based on Phenotype? Like the soon to be released data from Lake Turkana?

It would be improved to mention the article title in the beginning and to quote from it.

If not change the tile and leave "Lazaridis" of the title.
References in any scholarly article or blog are fundamental

The emphasis was sort of 19th century type craniometry approach, broad flat noses, etc. therefore Lazaridis was wrong
because broad flat noses = African. The genetics came in as secondary and were to specific to the Natufian as opposed to other groups sampled

"Basal Eurasian" is a theoretical term that comes out of statistical genetics data. I think the concept confuses people. I don't really like the term

In my opinion this article gives a pretty good analysis:


http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/2015/02/basal-eurasian_17.html


Basal Eurasian

--Anthromadness blog


this blog has several very good analysis of Natufians:


http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2016-01-01T00:00:00%2B04:00&updated-max=2017-01-01T00:00:00%2B04:00&max-results=25

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xyyman
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anthromadness blog. hmmm! never heard but I like what he/she did with TreeMix. Not sure how he obtained the software? But I am puzzled why these researchers have stop used TreeMix and reverted back to 'frequency' and ADMIXTURE.

TreeMix shows direction of migration. Guess they want to 'milk' the high frequency concept until they can't use it no more.

But another mystery has been solved. The Natufians are Africans carrying E-M35 subclade's.

edit; oops! David Treemix

==

Basal Eurasian

--Anthromadness blog


this blog has several very good analysis of Natufians:


http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2016-01-01T00:00:00%2B04:00&updated-max=2017-01-01T00:00:00%2B04:00&max-results=25

===

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xyyman
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may be this anthromadness guy is another fraud? Not sure what he means 'basal eurasian' is a statistical concept? Is he bsing me. Basal Eurasian is really SNPs isolated that is common to European populations. It is real!

Swenets twin? [Big Grin] [Smile]

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xyyman
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 -

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
@ Swenet, Excellent work.

Thanks. Had to do it when I read some of the comments on the internet after Lazaridis et al 2016's preprint.

quote:
Have you considered a scenario where seemingly "extinct" North African genetic components exist in Ancient remains we are assuming are SSA based on Phenotype? Like the soon to be released data from Lake Turkana?
When you say "seemingly extinct North African components", are you talking about the makers of Mousterian-like tools (e.g. Aterians) or to Basal Eurasian-like groups?
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beyoku
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@the lioness - That article was not written for your dumbass. Nobody cares what type of terms "you dont like" and what you feel would make the article better. Have you ever written anything of substantial independent thought relating to any of these subjects? NO.
BTW - You saying "The Author is Swenet" adds a dynamic to the discussion that probably changes what folks will or will not say knowing he wrote it. Some knew he was the author, maybe some didn't. Good job dumb ass.


@Swenet. I was thinking more toward Basal Eurasian but I guess you could include both. What I am getting at is there are remains in Africa of populations we only ASSUME to be related to living SSA. In some cases Natufian look like Sub Saharan Africans. Have you thought about Their African Ancestors and how far south in the continent they have penetrated and how they could be confused for Sub Saharan Africans prior to genetic testing?

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xyyman
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"They could be confused for Sub Saharan Africans prior to genetic testing?"

"Not all Negros are Negros ". ....

Translation: Natufians obviously had "Negroid " and tropical features but they are not closely related to modern West Africans. But they ARE Negros from Africa . Go figure.

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
Interesting writeup. Author says:

You must be kidding unless you use "interesting" in a condescending way.

I can see after all those years Swenet and Beyoku are still preoccupied with disconnecting Ancient Egypt from sub-Saharan Africans and African-Americans. Current archeological and genetic knowledge is enough to classify Ancient Egyptians as indigenous black Africans (BMJ, JAMA, DNA Tribes, Kadruka, Nabta Playa, Mota, Pickrell, Pagani, Stock, Wengrow, etc).

You never see Swenet or Beyoku trying to disconnect Ancient Greece from the history of Europeans or American people. Often called in their history books the Cradle of Western Civilization (science, mathematics, philosophy, democracy, Olympics, etc).

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DD'eDeN
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Cranial deformation - signal of rainforest exodus?

I suspect the deformation began with mothers habitually carrying infants/food/water in net bags/baskets hung back from the forehead/midcrania (aka tumpline), indicating 'open-sky' nomadism and/or cliff-cave dwelling(hands-free to climb or grasp), as opposed to rainforest Pygmies where the infants learn to walk quickly (6 mo.) and who camp near small feeder streams (no crocs) so water is not carried long distances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8qNQs5Q0Gw

3'/1m high water level. Never deeper due to crocs, Pygmies live along small feeder streams, gather fish, frogs, turtles, shellfish, shrimp, water lily bulbs in shallows.

Pygmy women set up a hedge-woven fence across feeder stream, hand catch fauna & flora.

Baka Pygmies traditionally wear pounded bark cloth

Paca(Aztec: bathe/launder)
Tapa(Hawaiian: pounded bark cloth)

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the lioness,
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Swenet, sorry I let the secret out
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xyyman
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Swenet's blog was discussed here before. do what you do. search!

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
@Swenet. I was thinking more toward Basal Eurasian but I guess you could include both. What I am getting at is there are remains in Africa of populations we only ASSUME to be related to living SSA. In some cases Natufian look like Sub Saharan Africans. Have you thought about Their African Ancestors and how far south in the continent they have penetrated and how they could be confused for Sub Saharan Africans prior to genetic testing?

You're right that when you look at the Natufians with African affinities, some look more SSA than others. For instance, the one whose picture I took from Bocquentin looks much more consistent with SSA than the one in the drawn Natufian image I took from Keith. Among other things, the former combines PBD, a flat nasal region and a somewhat flat occipital region (i.e., only a slight occipital bun). Morphologically, this more consistent with some modern Central Africans than Late Palaeolithic Egyptians and Nubians and likely reflects contact with L2a1 carriers.

In terms of Basal Eurasian-like groups moving south, I haven't really thought about it. But I think that if they're there you will be able to spot them immediately with decent morphometric analyses (unless they've mingled with local groups). What you're basically looking for is a pattern of morphometric ties that is similar to that of the African contingent in the Natufian and Muge samples.

Both the Natufian sample and the Muge sample have a contingent with substantial North African morphometric affinity. When you look at what both of these contingents in both populations have in common that other Eurasian fossils in both regions don't have, you can sort of 'isolate' what is African in both samples and what isn't. That is what I think Basal Eurasian will end up looking like when we find their skeletal remains in North Africa before the time of the Natufians.

Read what this author says about the Muge sample and its relationship to the Natufians and the relationship of both to Sub-Saharan Africans. See especially the quoted Coon and Mendes Correa comments and try to reconcile the somewhat contradicting descriptions:

THE PROBLEM OF RACE IN THE MESOLITHIC OF EUROPE (starting from p82)
http://digitalassets.lib.berkeley.edu/anthpubs/ucb/text/kas013-004.pdf

Also try to reconcile those comments with Howells' statistical analysis (which wasn't widely in use by the time the article I just posted was written) and try to see how Correa's comments fit with these affinities (for instance, they fit the persistent Egyptian affinities, whether close or distant). Also see how the Nubian, Muge and the single Natufian individuals in Howells' analysis have a similar pattern of relationships to the rest of the global samples.

Muge and Natufian in Howells:
http://i57.tinypic.com/2n682z7.png

Compare to the pattern of relationships of the Nubian sample to the pattern of affinities in the Natufian and Muge remains. The Denmark farmers and other Eurasian fossils also tend to have this pattern, which we already know why that is. The pattern of relationships of the 'Haya tribe' (Kenya), on the other hand, is clearly different (e.g. other SSA first, Egypt last):
http://i62.tinypic.com/34dfn6e.jpg

That's what I would look for when looking for clues that Basal Eurasian-like groups might have traveled south.

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Swenet, sorry I let the secret out

It wasn't a secret.
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xyyman
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maybe he, lioness, was being sarcastic

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
maybe he, lioness, was being sarcastic

You mean trolling?
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Swenet
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Bump for someone.

You can read the blogpost cited by the OP to learn more about my views re: EEF and Basal Eurasian. I recommend reading it when you have time.

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Swenet
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Here is more info on what I think Basal Eurasian is. It should be kept in mind that ancient Egyptians aren't EEF or the other way around. EEF is a mix of the ancestors of ancient Egyptians more than 10.000 years ago (see below) + Eurasian elements 10.000 years ago. This mix happened over thousands of years in the eastern and northern Mediterranean Basin, until a population emerged in Europe which we know in the literature as 'EEF', or Early European Farmer. This is the mainstream story, but, as I said in the quoted post below, a similar (and independent) mix happened in the Iberian Peninsula several times in between the Mesolithic and the late Neolithic (e.g. the Muge sample and the Late Atlantic Neolithic).

Interesting fact: the Muge sample has a brachial index that is on par with or higher than many equatorial samples. Their crural index is more moderate, though, and similar to ancient Egyptians. This is consistent with that the Muge population is a hybrid population more so than other Mesolithic Europeans.

Ancient Egyptians, on the other hand, are a continuation of their 10kya eastern Saharan ancestors + other elements of uncertain origin, especially in dynastic Lower Egypt (see Keita 1992 and Zakrzewski 2002). As a whole, predynastic Egyptians north and south are more like these 10ky old eastern Saharan ancestors than dynastic Egyptians.

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
@Swenet. I was thinking more toward Basal Eurasian but I guess you could include both. What I am getting at is there are remains in Africa of populations we only ASSUME to be related to living SSA. In some cases Natufian look like Sub Saharan Africans. Have you thought about Their African Ancestors and how far south in the continent they have penetrated and how they could be confused for Sub Saharan Africans prior to genetic testing?

You're right that when you look at the Natufians with African affinities, some look more SSA than others. For instance, the one whose picture I took from Bocquentin looks much more consistent with SSA than the one in the drawn Natufian image I took from Keith. Among other things, the former combines PBD, a flat nasal region and a somewhat flat occipital region (i.e., only a slight occipital bun). Morphologically, this more consistent with some modern Central Africans than Late Palaeolithic Egyptians and Nubians and likely reflects contact with L2a1 carriers.

In terms of Basal Eurasian-like groups moving south, I haven't really thought about it. But I think that if they're there you will be able to spot them immediately with decent morphometric analyses (unless they've mingled with local groups). What you're basically looking for is a pattern of morphometric ties that is similar to that of the African contingent in the Natufian and Muge samples.

Both the Natufian sample and the Muge sample have a contingent with substantial North African morphometric affinity. When you look at what both of these contingents in both populations have in common that other Eurasian fossils in both regions don't have, you can sort of 'isolate' what is African in both samples and what isn't. That is what I think Basal Eurasian will end up looking like when we find their skeletal remains in North Africa before the time of the Natufians.

Read what this author says about the Muge sample and its relationship to the Natufians and the relationship of both to Sub-Saharan Africans. See especially the quoted Coon and Mendes Correa comments and try to reconcile the somewhat contradicting descriptions:

THE PROBLEM OF RACE IN THE MESOLITHIC OF EUROPE (starting from p82)
http://digitalassets.lib.berkeley.edu/anthpubs/ucb/text/kas013-004.pdf

Also try to reconcile those comments with Howells' statistical analysis (which wasn't widely in use by the time the article I just posted was written) and try to see how Correa's comments fit with these affinities (for instance, they fit the persistent Egyptian affinities, whether close or distant). Also see how the Nubian, Muge and the single Natufian individuals in Howells' analysis have a similar pattern of relationships to the rest of the global samples.

Muge and Natufian in Howells:
http://i57.tinypic.com/2n682z7.png

Compare to the pattern of relationships of the Nubian sample to the pattern of affinities in the Natufian and Muge remains. The Denmark farmers and other Eurasian fossils also tend to have this pattern, which we already know why that is. The pattern of relationships of the 'Haya tribe' (Kenya), on the other hand, is clearly different (e.g. other SSA first, Egypt last):
http://i62.tinypic.com/34dfn6e.jpg

That's what I would look for when looking for clues that Basal Eurasian-like groups might have traveled south.


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@swenet is it possible I can spread your blog around? I ask your permission because people online like reading anthropology blogs especially those based around Africa which is popular. I think it will be good for you.

Dienekes blog is famous but I think you are more OBJECTIVE than him and can potentially show case a more objective side to the African point of view.

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Swenet
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Sure. You can spread it around. [Wink]

Thanks for being considerate and checking in. I had my reasons for staying low key with this blog for the moment. As you can see with this thread, for instance, it's not exactly working (no blame on DD'eDeN). People find it and share it. Might as well go with the flow.

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Djehuti
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Ah yes, I have perused through Swenet's website several times before during my research and he makes some excellent points about the origins of the first farmers and how they're African identity has been obscured.
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
Why Basal Eurasian is Still African as of Lazaridis et al 2016

http://egyptsearchdetoxed.blogspot.com/2016/07/why-basal-eurasian-is-still-african-as.html

I can't take this blog seriously. Lazaridis et al 2016 is in the title yet the Lazaridis article's title is not mentioned or in references.

This is the article's title:

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/16/059311

The genetic structure of the world's first farmers

2016 Iosif Lazaridis, et al

____________________________

So because the title was excluded you can't take his findings seriously?? LOL Sounds like an idiotic excuse if I ever did hear one but of course this comes from you.

quote:
Had the title of the Lazaridis et al 2016 been mentioned in the first paragraph we would see more clearly the disconnect as the blog author you know who speaks about morphology when we are dealing with in Lazaridis et al 2016 a genetics paper!

After making the argument that skull type = African he later goes on to speak about Hg L but never mentions the E1 clades of the Lazaridis article specific to the Natufians

 -

LINK

http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2016/06/16/059311.DC1/059311-1.pdf


_______________________

wikipedia:

E-Z830 (E1b1b1b2)

This is a recently discovered subclade which has not yet been included in most haplogroup trees, E-Z830 includes the confirmed subclades of E-M123, E-V1515 (E-M293, E-V42, E-V6, E-V92), and E-Z830*, and is a sibling clade to E-L19. Currently, the E-M35 phylogeny project recognizes four distinct clusters of Z830* carriers, two of which are exclusively Jewish in origin. The remaining two are significantly smaller, and include scattered individuals in Germany, Spain, Latin America, Egypt, and Ethiopia.

source:

http://www.haplozone.net/e3b/project/cluster/3

LOL [Big Grin] So now you accuse Swenet of what YOU yourself do all the time-- spin and distort. GTFOH with your b.s.
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Swenet
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Thanks DJ

One of the reasons why I wrote the blogpost in the OP is because I wanted to dispel the notion that the finding of more Basal Eurasian in Mesolithic Iranians than in Natufians disproves that Basal Eurasian came out of Africa.

More analysis has come out more recently on an Iranian neolithic sample. May be old news already to some but I just stumbled on it:

quote:
This is a DIY calculator created by a poster called Kurd on Anthrogenica.
Here is the link to download:

4.42% Ancestral_S_Eurasian
2.29% East_Asian
9.55% Iran_Neolithic
29.78% Natufian
0.00% WHG
53.96% Sub_Saharan

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/46244-Iran-Neolithic-K6?p=1251231&viewfull=1#post1251231
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:


quote:
This is a DIY calculator created by a poster called Kurd on Anthrogenica.
Here is the link to download:

4.42% Ancestral_S_Eurasian
2.29% East_Asian
9.55% Iran_Neolithic
29.78% Natufian
0.00% WHG
53.96% Sub_Saharan

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/46244-Iran-Neolithic-K6?p=1251231&viewfull=1#post1251231 [/QB]
^^ This is the DNA of a Somalian forum member on forumbiodiversity.com as determined by a DIY calculator made by a poster called Kurd on Anthrogenica.
Other posters post their own results after this.
The poster called the calculator " Iran Neolithic K6"

quote:

In case you didn't figure out the obvious (and the unimaginative name for the calculator is partially to blame), this is a calculator for anyone to use, and it's not exclusive to figuring out the admixture of modern Iranians.




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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:

Thanks DJ

One of the reasons why I wrote the blogpost in the OP is because I wanted to dispel the notion that the finding of more Basal Eurasian in Mesolithic Iranians than in Natufians disproves that Basal Eurasian came out of Africa.

More analysis has come out more recently on an Iranian neolithic sample. May be old news already to some but I just stumbled on it:

quote:
This is a DIY calculator created by a poster called Kurd on Anthrogenica.
Here is the link to download:

4.42% Ancestral_S_Eurasian
2.29% East_Asian
9.55% Iran_Neolithic
29.78% Natufian
0.00% WHG
53.96% Sub_Saharan

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/46244-Iran-Neolithic-K6?p=1251231&viewfull=1#post1251231
Yeah, I read your article about the how the cranial remains of the Iranian neolithic show African features as well-- dolichocephaly along with post-bregmatic depression-- and that such features were said to be the result of cranial deformation though without evidence of cranial scarring. I am automatically reminded of a couple of studies I read years ago shared to me by Dana about how neolithic skeletal remains found around the Persian Gulf especially around the Arabian side show African affinities such very tall linear bodies with pronounced dolichocephaly, some with "negroid" facial features which contrast with modern populations living there today. I hate to dig for those papers again, but I never thought about the Iranian side of the Persian Gulf until your article. Although, I should point out that there also existed another major neolithic population in the Zagros Mountain area which expanded into India and Afghanistan (I will post more on that another time).
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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^ This is the DNA of a Somalian forum member on forumbiodiversity.com as determined by a DIY calculator made by a poster called Kurd on Anthrogenica.
Other posters post their own results after this.
The poster called the calculator " Iran Neolithic K6"

You know what? You're absolutely correct. That's inexcusable.

I can't find the right corresponding data that shows the affinity of the Iranian samples, so instead of that i will have to make it up with:

quote:
On the issue of "Basal Eurasian": African or West Asian?
The question remains unanswered, as I said before but there are two clues: on one side the presence of E1b in Mesolithic and Neolithic Palestine clearly supports a direct NE African influence, also backed by archaeological evidence. But there is some nuance in the issue of FST distances that I want to highlight.

The distances are available in a very extensive supplementary table, so I took just a few to get a better understanding, not only of this issue but in general of the genetic distances of the four founder populations:

 -

Quite ironically it is not the Natufians who are the closest to the African reference population (Yoruba) but the CHG, Iran-N and Levant-N groups. In fact the Natufians are the most distant ones after the WHG population. However this is tricky because the affinity to Yoruba may also be caused by the "ghost" Basal Eurasian population, claimed first of all by Lazaridis 2014, which would be a remnant of the Out of Africa Migration (not strictly African but close enough and impossible to discern from true African admixture in most analyses).

—Maju

Source

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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:

Thanks DJ

One of the reasons why I wrote the blogpost in the OP is because I wanted to dispel the notion that the finding of more Basal Eurasian in Mesolithic Iranians than in Natufians disproves that Basal Eurasian came out of Africa.

More analysis has come out more recently on an Iranian neolithic sample. May be old news already to some but I just stumbled on it:

quote:
This is a DIY calculator created by a poster called Kurd on Anthrogenica.
Here is the link to download:

4.42% Ancestral_S_Eurasian
2.29% East_Asian
9.55% Iran_Neolithic
29.78% Natufian
0.00% WHG
53.96% Sub_Saharan

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/46244-Iran-Neolithic-K6?p=1251231&viewfull=1#post1251231
Yeah, I read your article about the how the cranial remains of the Iranian neolithic show African features as well-- dolichocephaly along with post-bregmatic depression-- and that such features were said to be the result of cranial deformation though without evidence of cranial scarring. I am automatically reminded of a couple of studies I read years ago shared to me by Dana about how neolithic skeletal remains found around the Persian Gulf especially around the Arabian side show African affinities such very tall linear bodies with pronounced dolichocephaly, some with "negroid" facial features which contrast with modern populations living there today. I hate to dig for those papers again, but I never thought about the Iranian side of the Persian Gulf until your article. Although, I should point out that there also existed another major neolithic population in the Zagros Mountain area which expanded into India and Afghanistan (I will post more on that another time).
See? That's why you're missed. That extra information you often have that can give someone leads to search with.

And yes you're right about Aghanistan. People with these affinities were all over the place. A far years back when I was researching the issue I was pleasantly surprised to find out that the Bronze Age Iranians used by Hanihara when he said they resemble Africans are actually from the Caspian Sea area. They're nowhere near Khuzistan. As I noted in my blogpost, people with these affinities are all over Bronze Age Central Asia, in places like Turkmenistan. Though I'm still uncertain about how African they are. As you know, tropically adapted doesn't automatically translate to African.

If you do manage to find those papers again, you know how to get in contact w/me.

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Swenet
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Anyone willing to co-moderate the Egyptsearch 2.0. blog with me? You'll be able to access the blog with your own blogger account, add posts, see my traffic statistics, etc. I will keep sending you new and interesting articles so you'll always have something to add to the blog (even if it's just to post an article's abstract). This will be a good way to keep yourself updated on the high quality stuff I read, that I rarely talk about in public because I reserve them for future posts (I have a huge archive). If you're savvy enough to get readership with your articles, you can write your own articles (as long as its serious scholarship).

I tend to post once a year on this blog, although I want to eventually increase that to two or more a year. This year I'm late (a new blogpost was supposed to be added January) because I'm turning this year's blogppst into a book. I made this decision because the topic was too valuable to publish as an ordinary blogpost.

The main reason why I'm asking for help is because I have a lot of different accounts/various initiatives/responsibilities to keep track of. Most new comments on this blog come when I make a new blogpost once a year. However, I do get rare comments in between blogposts and I don't want to keep people with questions waiting. This will be your most important responsibility. To let me know about serious questions and comments so I can respond in a timely fashion. You should be able to set it up so that you get notifications of new comments to your own email address. So it's not like you have to log in everyday just to check for new comments.

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