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Ase
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I got a response from someone who essentially said black Mande resettled Tichitt, they weren't the original inhabitants of Tichitt. That Tichitt was only black after 1000 AD, putting it "well" behind western civilization. I'd like to know ES' feedback on what they said about this absract:


"The sandstone escarpment of the Dhar Tichitt in South-Central Mauritania was inhabited by Neolithic agropastoral communities for approximately one and half millennium during the Late Holocene, from ca. 4000 to 2300 BP. The absence of prior evidence of human settlement points to the influx of mobile herders moving away from the “drying” Sahara towards more humid lower latitudes. These herders took advantage of the peculiarities of the local geology and environment and succeeded in domesticating bulrush millet – Pennisetum sp. The emerging agropastoral subsistence complex had conflicting and/or complementary requirements depending on circumstances. In the long run, the social adjustment to the new subsistence complex, shifting site location strategies, nested settlement patterns and the rise of more encompassing polities appear to have been used to cope with climatic hazards in this relatively circumscribed area. An intense arid spell in the middle of the first millennium BC triggered the collapse of the whole Neolithic agropastoral system and the abandonment of the areas. These regions, resettled by sparse oasis-dwellers populations and iron-using communities starting from the first half of the first millennium AD, became part of the famous Ghana “empire”, the earliest state in West African history."

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
I got a response from someone who essentially said black Mande resettled Tichitt, they weren't the original inhabitants of Tichitt. That Tichitt was only black after 1000 AD, putting it "well" behind western civilization. I'd like to know ES' feedback on what they said about this absract:


"The sandstone escarpment of the Dhar Tichitt in South-Central Mauritania was inhabited by Neolithic agropastoral communities for approximately one and half millennium during the Late Holocene, from ca. 4000 to 2300 BP. The absence of prior evidence of human settlement points to the influx of mobile herders moving away from the “drying” Sahara towards more humid lower latitudes. These herders took advantage of the peculiarities of the local geology and environment and succeeded in domesticating bulrush millet – Pennisetum sp. The emerging agropastoral subsistence complex had conflicting and/or complementary requirements depending on circumstances. In the long run, the social adjustment to the new subsistence complex, shifting site location strategies, nested settlement patterns and the rise of more encompassing polities appear to have been used to cope with climatic hazards in this relatively circumscribed area. An intense arid spell in the middle of the first millennium BC triggered the collapse of the whole Neolithic agropastoral system and the abandonment of the areas. These regions, resettled by sparse oasis-dwellers populations and iron-using communities starting from the first half of the first millennium AD, became part of the famous Ghana “empire”, the earliest state in West African history."

There is nothing in this post that says the Mande came to Tichitt 1000AD.

See: http://olmec98.net/man1.htm

.

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Who is claiming this? I mean do they have physical evidence that these people were non African. BTW in the passage you provided it says the Early inhabitants of Walata were Saharans, you know the people who also created the Early stages of predynastic and dynastic Egypt and Nubia...something Ive been saying for years.

How are these people not what you laymen call "black"...

quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
I got a response from someone who essentially said black Mande resettled Tichitt, they weren't the original inhabitants of Tichitt. That Tichitt was only black after 1000 AD, putting it "well" behind western civilization. I'd like to know ES' feedback on what they said about this absract:


"The sandstone escarpment of the Dhar Tichitt in South-Central Mauritania was inhabited by Neolithic agropastoral communities for approximately one and half millennium during the Late Holocene, from ca. 4000 to 2300 BP. The absence of prior evidence of human settlement points to the influx of mobile herders moving away from the “drying” Sahara towards more humid lower latitudes. These herders took advantage of the peculiarities of the local geology and environment and succeeded in domesticating bulrush millet – Pennisetum sp. The emerging agropastoral subsistence complex had conflicting and/or complementary requirements depending on circumstances. In the long run, the social adjustment to the new subsistence complex, shifting site location strategies, nested settlement patterns and the rise of more encompassing polities appear to have been used to cope with climatic hazards in this relatively circumscribed area. An intense arid spell in the middle of the first millennium BC triggered the collapse of the whole Neolithic agropastoral system and the abandonment of the areas. These regions, resettled by sparse oasis-dwellers populations and iron-using communities starting from the first half of the first millennium AD, became part of the famous Ghana “empire”, the earliest state in West African history."


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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Id love to see someone prove that Saharans and the culture of the Green Sahara were non African, I dont think any academic authority or researcher makes such a claim so Id love to see your opponents peer reviewed research that proves the Saharans who settled Walata were non African.

BTW you can see the similarities of the stone masonory from Tilchtt all across Africa from Nubia to the Sahel.

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=006448;p=2

http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/42961-there-extensive-lost-history-ancient-africa-2.html

I mean were the Nubians and Sahaelians also resettled by blacks? [Roll Eyes]

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Djehuti
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I'm not even going to address the ludicrous claim that Tichitt Walata was founded by non-black Eurasians, but I do ask what clues can be found about their ethnicity or even to what language phylum their language belonged??
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Askia_The_Great
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It is commonly agreed that Tichit was founded by people who would later be known as the Soninke people. Berber speaking Africans LATER migrated down to the area of Tichit after it declined.

Anyway talks about it being occupied by non-Africans should not even be addressed.

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Ish Geber
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Topology Atlas || Conferences


"Rapid and catastrophic environmental changes in the Holocene and human response" first joint meeting of IGCP 490 and ICSU Environmental catastrophes in Mauritania, the desert and the coast
January 4-18, 2004

Field conference departing from Atar
Atar, Mauritania

Organizers
Suzanne Leroy, Aziz Ballouche, Mohamed Salem Ould Sabar, and Sylvain Philip (Hommes et Montagnes travel agency)

View Abstracts
Conference Homepage

What is the impact of Holocene climatic changes on human societies: analysis of Neolithic population dynamic and dietary customs. by Jousse, Helene

UMR Paléoenvironnements et Paléobiosphère, Université Claude Bernard Lyon 1, Villeurbanne, France.


quote:

The reconstruction of human cultural patterns in relation to environmental variations is an essential topic in modern archaeology.

In western Africa, a first Holocene humid phase beginning c. 11,000 years BP is known from the analysis of lacustrine sediments (Riser, 1983 ; Gasse, 2002). The monsoon activity increased and reloaded hydrological networks (like the Saharan depressions) leading to the formation of large palaeolakes. The colonisation of the Sahara by vegetation, animals and humans was then possible essentially around the topographic features like Ahaggar (fig. 1). But since 8,000 years BP, the climate began to oscillate towards a new arid episode, and disturbed the ecosystems (Jolly et al., 1998; Jousse, 2003).

First, the early Neolithics exploited the wild faunas, by hunting and fishing, and occupied small sites without any trace of settlement in relatively high latitudes. Then, due to the climatic deterioration, they had to move southwards.

This context leads us to consider the notion of refugia. Figure 1 presents the main zones colonised by humans in western Africa. When the fossil valleys of Azaouad, Tilemsi and Azaouagh became dry, after ca. 5,000 yr BP, humans had to find refuges in the Sahelian belt, and gathered around topographic features (like the Adrar des Iforas, and the Mauritanians Dhar) and major rivers, especially the Niger Interior Delta, called the Mema.


Whereas the Middle Neolithic is relatively well-known, the situation obviously becomes more complex and less information is available concerning local developments in late Neolithic times.. Only some cultural affiliations existed between the populations of Araouane and Kobadi in the Mema. Elsewhere, and especially along the Atlantic coast and in the Dhar Tichitt and Nema, the question of the origin of Neolithic peopling remains unsolved.

A study of the palaeoenvironment of those refugia was performed by analysing antelopes ecological requirements (Jousse, submitted). It shows that even if the general climate was drying from 5,000 – 4,000 yr BP in the Sahara and Sahel, edaphic particularities of these refugia allowed the persistence of local gallery forest or tree savannas, where humans and animals could have lived (fig. 2). At the same time, cultural innovation like agriculture, cattle breeding, social organisation in villages are recognised. For the moment, the relation between the northern and the southern populations are not well known.

How did humans react against aridity? Their dietary behaviour are followed along the Holocene, in relation with the environment, demographic expansion, settling process and emergence of productive activities.

- The first point concerns the pastoralism. The progression of cattle pastoralism from eastern Africa (fig. 3) is recorded from 7,400 yr BP in the Ahaggar and only from 4,400 yr BP in western Africa. This trend of breeding activities and human migrations can be related to climatic evolution. Since forests are infested by Tse-Tse flies preventing cattle breeding, the reduction of forest in the low-Sahelian belt freed new areas to be colonised. Because of the weakness of the archaeozoological material available, it is difficult to know what was the first pattern of cattle exploitation.

- A second analysis was carried on the resources balance, between fishing-hunting-breeding activities. The diagrams on figures 4 and 5 present the number of species of wild mammals, fishes and domestic stock, from a literature compilation. Fishing is known around Saharan lakes and in the Niger. Of course, it persisted with the presence of water points and even in historical times, fishing became a specialised activity among population living in the Niger Interior Delta. Despite the general environmental deterioration, hunting does not decrease thanks to the upholding of the vegetation in these refugia (fig. 2). On the contrary, it is locally more diversified, because at this local scale, the game diversity is closely related to the vegetation cover. Hence, the arrival of pastoral activities was not prevalent over other activities in late Neolithic, when diversifying resources appeared as an answer to the crisis.

This situation got worse in the beginning of historic times, from 2,000 yr BP, when intense settling process and an abrupt aridity event (Lézine & Casanova, 1989) led to a more important perturbation of wild animals communities. They progressively disappeared from the human diet, and the cattle, camel and caprin breeding prevailed as today.

Gasse, F., 2002. Diatom-inferred salinity and carbonate oxygen isotopes in Holocene waterbodies of the western Sahara and Sahel (Africa). Quaternary Science Reviews: 717-767.

Jolly, D., Harrison S. P., Damnati B. and Bonnefille R. , 1998. Simulated climate and biomes of Africa during the late Quaternary : Comparison with pollen and lake status data. Quaternary Science Review 17: 629-657.

Jousse H., 2003. Impact des variations environnementales sur la structure des communautés mammaliennes et l'anthropisation des milieux: exemple des faunes holocènes du Sahara occidental. Thèse de l’Université Lyon 1, 405 p.

Jousse H, 2003. Using archaeological fauna to calibrate palaeovegetation: the Holocene Bovids of western Africa. Submit to Quaternary Science Reviews in november 2003, référence: QSR 03-333.

Lézine, A. M. and J. Casanova, 1989. Pollen and hydrological evidence for the interpretation of past climate in tropical West Africa during the Holocene. Quaternary Science Review 8: 45-55.

Riser, J., 1983. Les phases lacustres holocènes. Sahara ou Sahel ? Quaternaire récent du bassin de Taoudenni (Mali). Marseille: 65-86.

Date received: January 27, 2004


http://at.yorku.ca/c/a/m/u/27.htm

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Ish Geber
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quote:
The Neolithic occupation of the Dhars

There are a few scattered stone tools, handaxes and flakes, assigned to the Early Stone Age [20]. All are surface finds difficult to interpret. There is no evidence of Late Stone Age occupation of the Dhars. Accord- ingly, there may have been an influx of new populations that had already mastered livestock husbandry of cattle and sheep/goat. These groups that were moving away from the drying Late Holocene Sahara found suitable environmental conditions in the Dhar Tichitt, Dhar Walata and Dhar Nema at the beginning of the second millennium BC [1–3,5–7,12,15]. These conditions, probably linked to the presence of high aquifers, monsoonal rains and vestigial lakes, allowed for the Neolithic occupation to take root and prosper. How did they cope with climatic uncertainty and what does this entail? The key element at this juncture was the presence of water. It could be obtained through rainfall, lakes, rivers, streams and springs. The positive fluctuations of the aquifers could also make life sustainable despite low rainfall level. In general, however, there may have been a combination of rainfall and water-table fluctuations to support Neolithic life in the Dhars. The timing, quantity and distribution of rainfall are some of the crucial variables in the sustainability of human life along the Saharan margins. They affect agriculture, livestock husbandry, as well as wildlife in general and in the absence of hydraulic engineering capabilities are in fact the controlling factors of human success or failure. The timing, distribution and quantity of rainfall are fundamentally unpredictable from one year to the next. How did Neolithic people from the Dhars handle these unpre- dictable variables? The Neolithic occupation of the Dhars lasted from ca. 2200 BC to 4/300 BC. Their sites were distributed in different ecological zones, in the sandy lowland, the front of the cliff escarpment, and the secondary and tertiary valleys of the hydrographic network (Figs. 5 and 6). The pace of settlement expansion will be dealt with later but at this stage suffices it to state that the occupations of all the regions ecological niches were contemporaneous (Fig. 7).

3.1. Intensification

Significant progress has been made in research on early West African agriculture [3–5,7,10,12,14,18,19]. But the genesis of West African grain farming is nonetheless still poorly understood in terms of the dynamic processes involved. Domesticated millet – Pennisetum glaucum – dated to the beginning of the second millennium BC has been found in the Dhar Tichitt [12], Dhar Walata in Mauritania [3] and the ‘‘Kintampo’’ site of Birimu in North-Central Ghana [19]. A second wave of evidence pointing to the cultivation of domesticated millet dating to the turn of the first millennium BC has been documented at such places as Oursi in Burkina Faso, Gajiganna in Nigeria [14], suggesting a wide spread adoption of millet that reached the rainforest and East Africa during the first millennium BC. Domesticated African rice, Oriza glaberrima, is attested at Jenne-Jeno in the second half of the first millennium BC. The concept of intensifica- tion refers to a range of strategies aimed at securing a stable and reliable resources supply. It has two divergent implications. In one set of strategies, sustainability would be achieved through the broadening of collected resources – stretching the diet-breadth in both plant and animal resources. The other strategies set operate on a narrow range of resources that experience a strong and sustained exploitation pressure. In a co-evolving conundrum, the selected plant or animal went through a cascade of directional change that alters some of their characteristics; non-shattering and in the longer run larger grain for wild Pennisetum for example, or reduced body-size for some mammals.

The Dhar Tichitt has been hailed as an interesting case of local intensification that resulted in the domestication of wild millet. Relying on P. Munson [12,13], Stemler [18] offers the most coherent rendering of the intensification theory. Starting with a question, she wonders if it is ‘‘possible that it was the adoption of herding and the extensive use of wild grain that initiated the population growth indicated in the archaeological record at Dhar Tichitt?’’ She then moves on to argue that ‘‘if so, this change in the economy may have resulted in the necessity for increasingly labor-intensive practices to provide sufficient food for a growing population’’, and concludes that ‘‘this trend eventually resulted in the highly intensive interaction between plants and people that we call agriculture’’ [18]. From this perspective, bulrush millet was part of a cohort of wild plants that included Cenchrus biflorus (cram cram), Brachiaria deflexa, Panicum turgidum, P. laetum, exploited by Akhreijit Phase (ca. 1750 BC) foragers. The shifting frequencies of different species culminating in a 61% proportion of bulrush millet impressions in potsherds from the Chebka phase (ca. 1000–900 BC) is supposed to illustrate the gradual domestication of this species and the shift to the practice of agriculture. The domesticated millet from Oued Chebbi in the Dhar Walata dated to the beginning of the second millennium BC [1–3] shed serious doubt on the gradualist model alluded to above and makes it very unlikely. There is not yet any convincing evidence for the presence of Late Holocene mobile foragers settlements in the Dhars. The domestication of Pennisetum glaucum was probably an unanticipated result of semi-nomadic herders exploitation of local resources. Contrary to the other equally exploited wild plants, wild Pennisetum adjusted to the regular and sustained exploitation by both humans and livestock. This adjustment resulted in the growth of non-shattering large grain varieties that became humans staple food. Despite the sustained presence of Pennisetum glaucum remains in the Dhar Tichitt and Dhar Walata archae- ological record, the importance of this grain in Neolithic people diets cannot be assessed accurately. Plants macroremains frequencies obtained from impressions on pot-sherds cannot be translated directly into patterns of past humans diets.

[...]

4. The dynamics of agropastoral economy, site layout and household structure

[...]

Competition for land may have triggered conflict in the west. The colonization of the cliff top helped to alleviate the pressure on land and resources of the optimal zone where evidence of conflict is manifest by the presence of perimeter walls.

5. Conclusion

The details on the initial colonization of the Dhars are not known. But it is nonetheless clear that groups of cattle and sheep/goat herders settled along the sandstone cliffs at the end of the third millennium BC. They devised successful strategies to cope with the overall unpredictability of the climatic parameters. Through sustained intensification, short range and pulsatory nomadism, and colonization they succeeded in building the earliest extensive village communities of West Africa. The middle of the first millennium BC witnessed the onset of an acute arid phase that precipitated the disaggregation of the Neolithic agropastoral occupation of the Dhars. The abandonment of the whole area was probably gradual with small groups of families moving south and southeast in search for better environments. These populations may have later contributed to the rise of the Ghana Empire. The earliest settlers of Awdaghost were mobile herders [11]. Iron smelters settled in the Dhar Nema [15]. The fluctuations in the level of Awdaghost aquifers, as indicated by the increasing depth of wells from ca. 500– 600 AD to 1500 AD (Fig. 8), attest to the continuation of long-term climate change that started at the end of the 1st millennium BC. The disruption of the Dhars water cycle put an end to the most successful prehistoric agropastoral economies of West Africa.



--Augustin F.C. Holl

Coping with uncertainty: Neolithic life in the Dhar Tichitt-Walata, Mauritania, (ca. 4000–2300 BP

Volume 341, Issues 8–9, August–September 2009, Pages 703–712

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1631071309000996

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Djehuti
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^ Precisely my point.--- The settlement was founded during the Neolithic so what is the evidence that the founders were Mande speakers even if Mande languages even existed that far back in time. Of course nobody is saying that the founders were Berber or even Afrisian speaking.
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Ase
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Precisely my point.--- The settlement was founded during the Neolithic so what is the evidence that the founders were Mande speakers even if Mande languages even existed that far back in time. Of course nobody is saying that the founders were Berber or even Afrisian speaking.

A lot of researchers that insist it was Mande people cite this guy. Sadly I can't get the file atm.... [Frown]

https://www.scribd.com/document/148286845/Archaeology-and-the-Prehistoric-Origins-of-the-Ghana-Empire

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Precisely my point.--- The settlement was founded during the Neolithic so what is the evidence that the founders were Mande speakers even if Mande languages even existed that far back in time. Of course nobody is saying that the founders were Berber or even Afrisian speaking.

A lot of researchers that insist it was Mande people cite this guy. Sadly I can't get the file atm.... [Frown]

https://www.scribd.com/document/148286845/Archaeology-and-the-Prehistoric-Origins-of-the-Ghana-Empire

 -

.
.
Munson based his conclusion on the Soninke origin of Tichitt, on the fact the Tichitt pottery resembled Soninke pottery and an Azer population continues to live in the area. The Azer are one of the three main sub-groups of the Soninke.

See: https://www.academia.edu/412957/The_Migration_Routes_of_the_Proto-Mande
.

 -

.

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Brada-Anansi
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They are non "Black" because they built cities,and the earliest ones in west Africa at that, so how could they be Black..
http://www.suppressedhistories.net/articles/racism_history.html
IF IT WAS GREAT, IT MUST HAVE BEEN WHITE: If advanced science, art, or architecture is found in Africa or South America, then Phoenecians, Greeks, Celts, Vikings (or, in the extreme case, space aliens) must be invoked to explain their presence. (Here, whiteness often functions as a relative concept, as "lighter than.") This bias gives rise to a pronounced tendency to date American or African cultures later than warranted, and as a result dating for these regions is constantly having to be revised further back into the past as evidence of greater antiquity piles up.

COUNTERPOINT

The Mande were farming millet and other crops in West Africa in 6500-5000 BCE.

Temples in Peru and Sudan are much older than the Parthenon.

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Tichitt Culture
quote:

The Tichitt Culture, or Tichitt Tradition, was created by Mande peoples. In 4000 BCE, the start of sophisticated social structure (e.g., trade of cattle as valued assets) developed among herders amid the Pastoral Period of the Sahara.Saharan pastoral culture (e.g., fields of tumuli, lustrous stone rings, axes) was intricate. By 1800 BCE, Saharan pastoral culture expanded throughout the Saharan and Sahelian regions. The initial stages of sophisticated social structure among Saharan herders served as the segue for the development of sophisticated hierarchies found in African settlements, such as Dhar Tichitt. After migrating from the Central Sahara, Mande peoples established their civilization in the Tichitt region of the Western Sahara. The Tichitt Tradition of eastern Mauritania dates from 2200 BCE to 200 BCE.

Tichitt culture, at Dhar Néma, Dhar Tagant, Dhar Tichitt, and Dhar Walata, included a four-tiered hierarchal social structure, farming of cereals, metallurgy, numerous funerary tombs, and a rock art tradition. At Dhar Tichitt and Dhar Walata, pearl millet may have also been independently tamed amid the Neolithic. The urban Tichitt Tradition may have been the earliest large-scale, complexly organized society in West Africa,and an early civilization of the Sahara, which may have served as the segue for state formation in West Africa. Consequently, state-based urbanism in the Middle Niger and the Ghana Empire developed between 450 CE and 700 CE.




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Tukuler
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^ Pretty decent for a Wiki!


Which Mande are pastoral?
Unless anachronistic, I suspect some so-called 'Nilo-Saharan' (Ayneha, northern Songhai speakers) were possibly involved?
The Berber word Tichitt is a misapplication of the Mande Soninke word Chetou(ane) for their former town. Ti is 'land of' just like ta the Berber prefix in taMazgha = Mazigh-lands.

Dr Winters informs us "Nilo-Saharan speakers belonged to the African Aqualithic which was spread from [] the Aouker massif in Mauretania into East Africa. The Niger-Congo speakers belonged to the Ounanian culture which was also spread from West Africa to Nubia. The location of these civilizations in the Sahara and Sahel make it clear that the speakers of these languages probably originated in the Central Sahara, []".

Augustine Holl, quoted and cited by Ish Gebor, is our own African authority on the Mali/Mauritania confluence pre and early history. Tichitt's economy was robust and included "herding cattle and sheep-goat, cultivating bulrush millet, hunting wild game, gathering wild grain and fruits, and fishing". Having no water storage facilities, climate shift dispersed Tichitt's people southwest, south, and southeast of the aukar. Holl (2004) Fig 9 reproduces some Akrejit compound "blueprints". Do they have any correspondance with modern or known pre-modern regional compounds? "Cases of images representing walled compounds have been recorded
in all the surveyed sites (Fig. 9). They are all Dark Patina representations with thick pecked
lines, and as such an integral component of the Dhar Tichitt Early Iconographic Tradition
outlined so far. Two ox-carts have been documented from the immediate vicinity of Bled Initi.
One (Fig. 10.1), with a human representation, lacks some elements and may be considered
unfinished. The other (Fig. 10.2), appearing completed at first glance, seems to have been
drawn by an unskilled artist (or more probably a beginner) unable to master the perspective.
In both cases however, the modus operandi implemented is similar to that documented at
Akhrejit, as shown in Fig. 3.2(A)–(D). In other words, despite their exotic motifs (carts),
both representations adhere to the regional Early Iconographic Tradition.

... the distribution of Light Patina images in the Saharan landscape may have been used as “road maps”
by those able to decipher and process the information. DP images on the other hand are clearly linked
to an agropastoral way of life and are confined to the Late Stone Age settlements. Finally, motivation
for image making ranges broadly, from ludic and playful activities to deeper and obscure symbolic and/or religious purposes."


Old and in places outdated, the European GP Murdock has informative chapters on "Saharan Negroes" and "Nuclear Mande" peoples. Murdock proposes his Nuclear Mande domesticated bulrush millet (whenever I could find it, I made millet 'felafel balls' for Shabbath morning kiydush treats.) Today's Mande speakers use cattle as prestige/luxury items just as in early Tichitt.

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Tichitt Cultural Tradition
quote:

Planned, level streets spanned several hundred kilometers among the 400 drystone-constructed villages, hamlets, and towns.


Mandé peoples

quote:

Archaeological evidence shows that the Mandé Speaking people were early producers of stone settlement civilizations. These were initially built on the rocky promontories of Tichitt-Walata and Dhar Néma in the Tagant cliffs of Southern Mauritania beginning between around 2,000 BC and 1,500 BC by ancient Mande speaking people, likely early Soninke, peoples. Hundreds of stone masonry settlements, with clear street layouts, have been found in this area. Some settlements had massive defensive walls, while others were less fortified.


quote:


A series of early cities and towns were created by Mande peoples, also related to the Soninke, along the middle Niger River in Mali, including at Dia, beginning from around 900 BC, and reaching its peak around 600 BC, and later at Djenné-Djenno, which was occupied from around 250 B.C to around 800 AD.
Djenné-Djenno comprised an urban complex consisting of 40 mounds within a 4 kilometer radius. The site is believed to exceed 33 hectares (82 acres), and the town engaged in both local and long-distance trade During Djenné-Djenno's second phase (during the first millennium AD) the borders of the site expanded during (possibly covering 100,000 square meters or more), also coinciding with the development at the site of a kind of permanent mud brick architecture, including a city wall, probably built during the latter half of the first millennium AD using the cylindrical brick technology, "which was 3.7 meters wide at its base and ran almost two kilometers around the town".


Djenné-Djenno
quote:


Djenné-Djenno (also Jenne-Jeno; /ˈdʒɛniː dʒʌˌnoʊ/) is a UNESCO World Heritage Site located in the Niger River Valley in the country of Mali. Literally translated to "ancient Djenné", it is the original site of both Djenné and Mali and is considered to be among the oldest urbanized centers and the best-known archaeology site in sub-Saharan Africa.



Origins
quote:

A series of early cities and towns were created by Mande peoples, also related to the Soninke, along the middle Niger River in Mali, including at Dia, beginning from around 900 BC, and reaching its peak around 600 BC, and later at Djenné-Djenno, which was occupied from around 250 B.C to around 800 AD.


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So are we going to make a response thread against every ridiculous claim against Africans civilization racist Euronuts make?

Doing such in regards to Egypt is enough, thank you!

Dhar Tichitt's construction dates to 2500 BC and all the sources I've read describes its inhabitants as "Negroid" or 'black', which is probably why this civilization doesn't get talked about much.

Even if Mande weren't the original inhabitants of Tichitt, its original inhabitants were still black and were closely related or affiliated with the Mande as the archaeology shows.

Eurocentric Doctrine# 6
IF IT WAS GREAT, IT MUST HAVE BEEN WHITE: If advanced science, art, or architecture is found in Africa or South America, then Phoenecians, Greeks, Celts, Vikings (or, in the extreme case, space aliens) must be invoked to explain their presence. (Here, whiteness often functions as a relative concept, as "lighter than.") This bias gives rise to a pronounced tendency to date American or African cultures later than warranted, and as a result dating is constantly having to be revised further back into the past as evidence of greater antiquity piles up.

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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
I got a response from someone who essentially said black Mande resettled Tichitt, they weren't the original inhabitants of Tichitt. That Tichitt was only black after 1000 AD, putting it "well" behind western civilization. I'd like to know ES' feedback on what they said about this absract:


"The sandstone escarpment of the Dhar Tichitt in South-Central Mauritania was inhabited by Neolithic agropastoral communities for approximately one and half millennium during the Late Holocene, from ca. 4000 to 2300 BP. The absence of prior evidence of human settlement points to the influx of mobile herders moving away from the “drying” Sahara towards more humid lower latitudes. These herders took advantage of the peculiarities of the local geology and environment and succeeded in domesticating bulrush millet – Pennisetum sp. The emerging agropastoral subsistence complex had conflicting and/or complementary requirements depending on circumstances. In the long run, the social adjustment to the new subsistence complex, shifting site location strategies, nested settlement patterns and the rise of more encompassing polities appear to have been used to cope with climatic hazards in this relatively circumscribed area. An intense arid spell in the middle of the first millennium BC triggered the collapse of the whole Neolithic agropastoral system and the abandonment of the areas. These regions, resettled by sparse oasis-dwellers populations and iron-using communities starting from the first half of the first millennium AD, became part of the famous Ghana “empire”, the earliest state in West African history."

The thread was posted in 2016 by Ase
but no source given for the quote

Ish Geber has two large text reply posts, each a quote from a different article

The second post is actually from the same article in the OP although it does not include any of the OP quote
so you can't tell by looking these are quotes from the same article

____________________________________________

another quote from the same article:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1631071309000996

Coping with uncertainty: Neolithic life in the Dhar Tichitt-Walata, Mauritania, (ca. 4000–2300 BP)
2009

Gérer l’incertitude : vie néolithique dans le Dhar Tichitt-Walata, Mauritanie (ca. 4000–2300 BP)
Written on invitation of the Editorial Board
Author links open overlay panelAugustin F.C.Holl

1. Introduction
The Dhar Tichitt, located at 18° 20′–18° 27′ N and 9° 05′–9° 30′ W, is part of the sandstone cliff series of the South-Central part of Mauritania in southwestern Sahara (Fig. 1). The area was colonized by Neolithic agropastoral communities starting from ca. 4000 BP. They spread all along the sandstones cliffs and settled in the Dhar Tichitt, Dhar Walata, Dhar Nema, and beyond [1], [5], [6], [7], [12], [13], [15], [20]. These groups settled on the cliff's top, along intermittent rivers courses, and interdunal depressions, herding cattle and sheep-goat, cultivating bulrush millet, hunting wild game, gathering wild grain and fruits, and fishing in the available ponds and lakes. The local Holocene climatic record points to a Humid Early Holocene (ca. 10,000–7000 BP) with relatively large size lakes in the Hodh. It was followed by an Mid-Holocene Arid phase (ca. 7000–5000 BP) during which most of the large lakes dried up and SW–NE oriented dunes were formed almost everywhere, except in the baten – cliff foot. A Mid-Holocene humid phase – also known as Nouakchottian – is documented to have taken place from ca. 5000 to 3000 BP . It is during this period that the characteristic climatic pattern of two contrasted seasons, a more or less longer dry season and a generally shorter rainy season, appears to have developed. The later portion of the Late Holocene, particularly from 2500 BP on, was characterized by a shift toward increased aridity with successive drought episodes. These circumstances triggered the abandonment of the area for wetter regions in the south and east.

The Neolithic occupation of the Dhars lasted from ca. 2200 BC to 4/300 BC.

The abandonment of the whole area was probably gradual with small groups of families moving south and southeast in search for better environments. These populations may have later contributed to the rise of the Ghana Empire.

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Tichitt culture
quote:

In 4000 BCE, the start of sophisticated social structure (e.g., trade of cattle as valued assets) developed among herders amid the Pastoral Period of the south and central Sahara. Saharan pastoral culture (e.g., fields of tumuli, lustrous stone rings, axes) was intricate. By 1800 BCE, Saharan pastoral culture expanded throughout the Saharan and Sahelian regions. The initial stages of sophisticated social structure among Saharan herders served as the segue for the development of sophisticated hierarchies found in African settlements, such as Dhar Tichitt.
After migrating from the Central Sahara, Mande peoples established their civilization in the Tichitt region of the Western Sahara The Tichitt Tradition of southeastern Mauritania dates from 2200 BCE to 200 BCE.Tichitt culture, at Dhar Néma, Dhar Tagant, Dhar Tichitt, and Dhar Walata, included a four-tiered hierarchal social structure, farming of cereals, metallurgy, numerous funerary tombs, and a rock art tradition At Dhar Tichitt and Dhar Walata, pearl millet may have also been independently tamed amid the Neolithic. The urban Tichitt Tradition may have been the earliest large-scale, complexly organized society in West Africa,and an early civilization of the Sahel and Sahara, which may have served as the segue for state formation in West Africa.

Tichitt Culture
quote:

The Tichitt Culture, or Tichitt Tradition, was created by Mande peoples. In 4000 BCE, the start of sophisticated social structure (e.g., trade of cattle as valued assets) developed among herders amid the Pastoral Period of the Sahara.Saharan pastoral culture (e.g., fields of tumuli, lustrous stone rings, axes) was intricate. By 1800 BCE, Saharan pastoral culture expanded throughout the Saharan and Sahelian regions. The initial stages of sophisticated social structure among Saharan herders served as the segue for the development of sophisticated hierarchies found in African settlements, such as Dhar Tichitt. After migrating from the Central Sahara, Mande peoples established their civilization in the Tichitt region of the Western Sahara. The Tichitt Tradition of eastern Mauritania dates from 2200 BCE to 200 BCE.


Tichitt culture, at Dhar Néma, Dhar Tagant, Dhar Tichitt, and Dhar Walata, included a four-tiered hierarchical social structure, farming of cereals, metallurgy, numerous funerary tombs, and a rock art tradition. At Dhar Tichitt and Dhar Walata, pearl millet may have also been independently tamed amid the Neolithic. The urban Tichitt Tradition may have been the earliest large-scale, complexly organized society in West Africa, and an early civilization of the Sahara, which may have served as the segue for state formation in West Africa. Consequently, state-based urbanism in the Middle Niger and the Ghana Empire developed between 450 CE and 700 CE.



State building in ancient west Africa: from the Tichitt neolithic civilization to the empire of Ghana (2,200BC-1250AD)
A "cradle" of west african civilization
quote:

The Tichitt neolithic civilization and the Ghana empire which emerged from it remain one of the most enigmatic but pivotal chapters in African history. This ancient appearance of a complex society in the 3rd millennium BC west Africa that was contemporaneous with Old-kingdom Egypt, Early-dynastic Mesopotamia and the ancient Indus valley civilization, overturned many of the diffusionist theories that attributed the founding of west African civilizations to ancient Semitic immigrants from Carthage and the near east, The emergence of the empire of Ghana from the ruins of the tichitt tradition in 300 AD, whose political reach covered vast swathes of west Africa, and whose commercial influence was felt as far as spain (Andalusia), opened an overlooked window into west Africa's past, in particular, the complex processes of statecraft that led to the emergence of vast empires in the region.

Recent studies of the Tichitt neolithic tradition, the Ghana empire, and early west African history in general have proven that the cities, trade connections and manufactures of west Africa were bigger, more sophisticated, and more expansive than previously thought, and that they appeared much earlier than previously imagined. These studies also provide us with an understanding of the novel ways in which early west African states organized themselves; with large states structured as confederations of semi-autonomous polities that paid tribute to the center and recognized its ruler as their suzerain, and with the suzerain maintaining a mobile royal capital that moved through the subordinate provinces, while retaining ritual primacy over his kinglets. This distinctive form of state-craft was first attested in the Ghana empire and later transmitted to the Mali empire and its successor states in west Africa.



quote:

The Tichitt neolithic tradition is arguably West Africa’s first large-scale complex society, the 200,000 km polity was centered in the dhar tichitt and dhar walata escarpments and extended over the dhar tagant and dhar nema regions in what is now south-eastern Mauritania. The area was permanently settled by agro pastoral communities after 2200-1900BC following a period of semi-permanent settlement that begun around 2600BC. These agro-pastoral groups, who were identified as proto-Soninke speakers of the Mandé language family, lived in dry-stone masonry structures built within aggregated compounds, they raised cattle, sheep and goats, cultivated pearl millet and smelted iron.


Cereal agriculture in the form of domesticated pearl millet was extant from the very advent of the Tichitt tradition with the earliest dates coming from the early tichitt phase (2200/1900-1600BC) indicating that the tichitt agriculturalists had already domesticated pearl millet before arriving in the region thus pushing the beginnings of cultivation back to the pre-tichitt phase (2600-2200/1900BC) and were part of a much wider multi-centric process of domestication which was sweeping the Sahel at the time with similar evidence for domesticated pearl millet in the 3rd millennium BC from mali’s tilemsi valley and the bandiagara region, as well as in northern Ghana.

The classic tichitt phase (1600BC-1000BC) witnessed a socioeconomic transformation during which most of Tichitt’s main population centers developed, with the greatest amount of dry-stone construction across all sites including a clearly defined settlement hierarchy in which the smallest settlement unit was a "compound" enclosed in a high wall (now only 2m tall) containing several housing units occupied by atleast 14 dwellers, the polity was arranged in a settlement hierarchy of four ranks, which included; 72 hamlets with 20 compounds each, 12 villages with 50 compounds each, 5 large villages with 198 compounds each, and a large proto-urban center called Dakhlet el Atrouss-I containing 540 stone-walled compounds with an elite necropolis whose tumuli graves are surmounted by stone pillars and were associated with religious activity.


Dakhlet el atrouss housed just under 10,000 inhabitants, and may be considered west Africa's earliest proto-urban settlement and one of the continents oldest. The size and extent of the tichitt neolithic settlements of this period exceeds many of the medieval urban sites associated with the empires of Ghana and Mali and this phase of the tichitt tradition has been referred to as an incipient state or a complex chiefdom. the disproportionately large number of monumental tombs in the vicinity of dhar Tichitt especially at Dakhlet el atrouss attests to an ancient ideological center of gravity and a sense of the sacred attached to dhar Tichitt over the '“districts” of dhar tagant, walata and nema and its status as an ancestral locality may have made it an indispensable dwelling place for elites. There's plenty of evidence for iron working in the late phase tichitt sites (1000-400/200BC) including slag and furnaces from the early first millennium at the sites of dhar nema and dhar tagant dated to between 800-400BC, which is contemporaneous with the earliest evidence of iron metallurgy throughout west Africa and central Africa. dhar mema also appears to have been the last of the tichitt sites to be settled as the tichitt populations progressively moved south into the ‘inland Niger delta’ region to establish what are now knows as the "Faïta sites" (1300-200 BC), as evidenced by the appearance of classic tichitt pottery, and similar material culture in settlements such as Dia where tichitt ceramics appear in the earliest phases between 800 400BC.




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Edited above-
I took my comments/views from the recent posts above out and just left the info above.

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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
I got a response from someone who essentially said black Mande resettled Tichitt, they weren't the original inhabitants of Tichitt. That Tichitt was only black after 1000 AD, putting it "well" behind western civilization. I'd like to know ES' feedback on what they said about this absract:


"The sandstone escarpment of the Dhar Tichitt in South-Central Mauritania was inhabited by Neolithic agropastoral communities for approximately one and half millennium during the Late Holocene, from ca. 4000 to 2300 BP. The absence of prior evidence of human settlement points to the influx of mobile herders moving away from the “drying” Sahara towards more humid lower latitudes. These herders took advantage of the peculiarities of the local geology and environment and succeeded in domesticating bulrush millet – Pennisetum sp. The emerging agropastoral subsistence complex had conflicting and/or complementary requirements depending on circumstances. In the long run, the social adjustment to the new subsistence complex, shifting site location strategies, nested settlement patterns and the rise of more encompassing polities appear to have been used to cope with climatic hazards in this relatively circumscribed area. An intense arid spell in the middle of the first millennium BC triggered the collapse of the whole Neolithic agropastoral system and the abandonment of the areas. These regions, resettled by sparse oasis-dwellers populations and iron-using communities starting from the first half of the first millennium AD, became part of the famous Ghana “empire”, the earliest state in West African history."

The above quote is from the abstract of an article
by a Cameroonian archaeologist now a professor at a university in China, Augustin F.C. Holl

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1631071309000996#!

The word Mande is never mentioned in the article
although some would describe the Ghana Empire as
founded by Mande
He says of the earlier occupation "Tichitt in South-Central Mauritania was inhabited by Neolithic agropastoral communities for approximately one and half millennium during the Late Holocene"
Although he does not detail their origin I think when he uses the word "Neolithic" he is referring to an indigenous African Neolithic independent of the Middle Eastern one although I have not delved into his other writings on it yet. He uses the term "agropastoral".
Wikipedia has an entry called Pastoral Neolithic but usually applied to East Africa
quote:

Pastoral Neolithic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastoral_Neolithic
The Pastoral Neolithic (5000 BP - 1200 BP)[1] refers to a period in Africa's prehistory, specifically Tanzania and Kenya, marking the beginning of food production, livestock domestication, and pottery use in the region following the Later Stone Age. The exact dates of this time period remain inexact, but early Pastoral Neolithic sites support the beginning of herding by 5000 BP. In contrast to the Neolithic in other parts of the world, which saw the development of farming societies, the first form of African food production was nomadic pastoralism, or ways of life centered on the herding and management of livestock. The shift from hunting to food production relied on livestock that had been domesticated outside of East Africa, especially North Africa. This period marks the emergence of the forms of pastoralism that are still present.[2] The reliance on livestock herding marks the deviation from hunting-gathering but precedes major agricultural development. The exact movement tendencies of Neolithic pastoralists are not completely understood

I have a new thread on this man. He has wriiten a book and some interesting articles

Augustin F. C. Holl, Cameroonian Archaeologist, moved to China

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=010659

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Oh another thing to keep in mind that i almost forgot(but still kept in mind) when i posted my original comments.

Town
quote:
A town is a human settlement. Towns are generally larger than villages and smaller than cities, though the criteria to distinguish between them vary considerably in different parts of the world.

Origin and use
quote:

In some cases, town is an alternative name for "city" or "village" (especially a larger village).
Sometimes, the word town is short for township. In general, today towns can be differentiated from townships, villages, or hamlets on the basis of their economic character, in that most of a town's population will tend to derive their living from manufacturing industry, commerce, and public services rather than primary sector industries such as agriculture or related activities.



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Despite those just finding out about him, since at least 2006 Holl is no stranger to the attentive ES readership. see here

See also the ES daughter site's references to Holl. here

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I am curious about Tichitt's contacts with Mediterranean civilizations.

quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
 -
llustration by angus mcbride showing Phoenicians traders trading with Mandé merchants of the Pre-Imperial Mali of the Tichitt-Walata cliffs of Southern Mauritania in The 10th or 8th century BC.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyovdsZ7Be1qgfbgio1_1280.png&imgrefurl=

somebody blocked out the map in the earlier version of this picture for some reason


The Phoenicians built significant cities in Mauretania, including Lixus, Volubilis and Chellah. After Rome defeated Carthage in the Punic Wars, these Mauritanian cities became important regional centers of this part of the North African Roman Empire. The Romans did some expeditions south of their Mauretania Tingitana, perhaps reaching the area north of the river Senegal populated by the Pharusii tribe

After the defeat of Carthage it became Roman territory
 -

^^^ occuring in what was called Mauretania Tingitana

That is Roman Mauretania spelled with an E these in what is now called Morocco

while modern Mauritania spelled with an is here:
 -

So Tichit-Walata was in the Southern area of what is now modern Mauritania and the closest Phoenican cities were in what is now Morroco ( as well as Tuniisa etc. )

The illustration portays Phoenicians traders trading with Mandé merchants of the Pre-Imperial Mali in the 10th c
I'm not sure that happened, would need to see another source verifying it.

Here is post imperial Mali, the mali Empire
 -

as compared to modern Mali which doesn't include that part of modern Mauritania
 -

gets to be a little confusing, same place names, differnt locations in different time periods


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