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Recent historical migrations have shaped the gene pool of Arabs and Berbers in North Africa
quote: Nowadays, Berbers are identified by the use of a Berber language, and are considered the ancestral peoples of North Africa. Despite the pivotal importance of Berbers for the knowledge of North African history, limited genetic analyses have been performed beyond the study of uniparental markers, which showed high heterogeneity in Berber samples, presence of autochthonous lineages (i.e. mitochondrial U6 and M1; and Y-chromosome E-M78 and E-M81 haplogroups), and lack of differentiation between Berber and Arab groups (Bosch et al. 2001; Plaza et al. 2003; Arredi et al. 2004; Coudray et al. 2009; Fadhlaoui- Zid, Rodríguez-Botigué, et al. 2011; Fadhlaoui-Zid et al. 2013; Bekada et al. 2015).
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To explore the genetic complexity of North African groups and correlate it with the cultural diversity present in the area, we have genotyped ~900K SNPs in four additional Berber groups from Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. We combine this data with some published and some new reference panels, and apply haplotype-based approaches to characterize the ancestry components of North African groups and estimate admixture dates of the migrations that have shaped the genetic landscape of the region. Our results highlight the idea of a heterogeneous genetic landscape in North Africa due to recent demographic events, which should be taken into account when performing biomedical studies.
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Berber samples without making differentiable clusters. The two groups of Berbers from Morocco (Tiznit and Errachidia) lie intermingled with non-Berber Moroccan samples; and Tunisian Berbers from Sened lie within their geographically non-Berber closer relatives, the Libyans and the Algerians. The Algerian Berbers from Timimoun show a higher diversity, making a gradient towards sub-Saharan African samples and exhibit a higher frequency of the sub-Saharan ancestral component in the ADMIXTURE analysis. Finally, Tunisian Berbers from Chenini, which were the only Berber-speaking group included in a previous North African genome-wide analysis (Henn et al. 2012), form a distinct cluster in both PCA and ADMIXTURE that separates them from other Berber samples, perhaps indicative of relatively high levels of recent interbreeding in this group as we explore below.
In order to analyze in depth the complex structure and heterogeneous genetic patterns of North African populations, we explored patterns of haplotype sharing using ChromoPainter and fineSTRUCTURE (Lawson et al. 2012). Both the ChromoPaintercoancestrymatrix (S6 Fig and S7 Fig), which measures the amount of haplotype sharing among groups, and the fineSTRUCTURE-inferred tree that clusters genetically similar individuals (S7 Fig), reinforce the complex structure of North African populations. Based on our fineSTRUCTURE results, we classified our 190 North African individuals into 14 clusters (Fig 3). Current North African geographical samples do not form homogeneous genetic populations, with the single exception of Tunisian Berbers from Chenini (cluster Tun.Chen.Ber. in Fig 3), contrasting with the genetic homogeneity shown by surrounding populations (clusters Basque, CEU, Syria and YRI in Fig 3). Despite the genetic heterogeneity in North Africa, some geographical or population structure can be detected among the fineSTRUCTURE-inferred clusters. Clusters L and M that branch close to Yoruba are found in the Southwest; clusters B, H and I are mainly restricted to the northern coast; whereas cluster J is restricted to the East and present in Libya and Egypt. Finally, some clusters are specific to some geographical populations such as cluster C in Western Sahara; clusters E and G in Tunisian Berbers from Sened; and cluster K in Algerian Berbers. It is worth noting that the distribution of clusters does not correlate with the ethno-linguistic affiliation of the samples, i.e. no general or common “Berber” or “Arab” cluster is found.
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Discussion
Our genome-wide results for several human groups in North Africa, including several Berber groups, confirm their genetic heterogeneity and the complex demographic history of the area. This complexity highlights the high degree of inter-population admixture and the challenge of defining genetic groups in North Africa. Populations, understood as groups of individuals sampled together to be analyzed and described as an entity, are usually geographically determined considering the birth place of the individuals and their close ancestors. However, when these sampled populations are studied from a genetic point of view, genetic groups, or clusters, can be established based on genetic similarities rather than their geographical origin. Some individuals show high correspondence between their geographical origin and their genetic affinities, as shown for example in European populations (Lao et al. 2008; Novembre et al. 2008; Busby et al. 2015). Consistent with this, our analyses show that European, Middle Eastern and sub-Saharan populations exhibit a homogeneous genetic structure in accordance with their geographical sampling. However, North African populations do not show this correlation, and individuals from the same geographical origin are distributed in different clusters, or genetic groups, with no clear demographic, ethnic or geographical classification (Fig 3).
The lack of correlation between geographic and genetic structure and the high heterogeneity shown within North African groups largely can be explained by heterogeneous or unbalanced admixture. Our results show that differential admixture patterns with other populations, mainly from Middle East and sub-Saharan Africa, and to a lesser extent Europeans, added to any autochthonous genetic component in North African individuals. North African individuals with very similar admixture patterns tend to group despite their geographical origin, and thus the same fineSTRUCTURE cluster or genetic group can be found in different geographical populations due to similarities in the admixture patterns of the individuals (S8 Fig). These differential admixture patterns, in the apparent absence of strong levels of within-population drift following admixture, at least partially explain the high heterogeneity found within geographical groups of individuals sampled from the same location. This fact is especially remarkable in the Zenata Berber population from Algeria, where genetic similarity to sub-Saharan Africa in some individuals is extremely high, while similarity to the Middle East is much higher in others (Fig 3 and S8 Fig). Substructure within geographical populations may be caused by social substructure; for example, the sub- Saharan component is believed to come at least in some cases from recent slave trade (Harich et al. 2010), and social structure may influence which individuals are affected by the admixture in that case. Moreover, the heterogeneity and admixture patterns observed in North Africa suggest a high amount of migration within the region without a clear pattern. Nevertheless, some genetic patterns can be related to geography, such as the one shown by cluster H, which is a genetic group spread along the Mediterranean coast and might have been related to migrations along the coast (Fig 3).
Comparison of inferred ancestry proportions between the autosomes and X chromosome in Cluster M is indicative of sex-biased admixture with an overabundance of males with Middle Eastern (Syrian-like) ancestry and females with sub-Saharan African (Yoruba-like) ancestry.
Moreover, we infer a lower proportion of sub-Saharan ancestry older than previously described in all admixture events dated from the first century B.C., which could be attributed to more ancient slave trade during the Roman or Islamic periods, such as the servile Haratin population of Nilo-Saharan origin in Berber groups such as the Sanhadja and Zenata (Newman 1995).
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Common sense tells you that if all humans originate in "Sub Saharan" Africa then that means the indigenous ancestral populations IN North Africa also originated from "Sub Saharan" Africans. These people are simply still trying their best to find some way of claiming ancient North Africans as some kind of "indegenous" Non black Africans in Africa separate from the rest of Africans which is impossible. The Sahara has always been populated by black Africans and black Africans have always been living in and migrating through the Sahara from the very beginning. The issue is that since the last Saharan wet phase, the Sahara has been sparsely populated and the populations that once lived there either moved North to the Coast (and into Europe), South and to the East or West. And if you look at those populations in and around the edges of the Sahara you will find the ancestral lineages that once were common in the Sahara. But these clowns wont do that. Not to mention the Arabs are not indigenous to North Africa and therefore are part of the mixture in the first place, while Berbers are a linguistic group, not a single genetic lineage. You will find various genetic markers across Berber populations because of the various population histories for each group. So how can you say the black berbers like the Southern Algerian Tuareg or the Tuareg in Niger are descendants of slaves? How does that even make sense? They are working hard to turn foreign mixture into a sign of being "indigenous" and make the indigenous populations into foreigners.
Hence:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Recent historical migrations have shaped the gene pool of Arabs and Berbers in North Africa
quote: Moreover, we infer a lower proportion of sub-Saharan ancestry older than previously described in all admixture events dated from the first century B.C., which could be attributed to more ancient slave trade during the Roman or Islamic periods, such as the servile Haratin population of Nilo-Saharan origin in Berber groups such as the Sanhadja and Zenata (Newman 1995).
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Notice ****ALL*** LWK carry the blue "Qatar" component. This includes North Africans. Even The Italians-TSI!!!!Significance?
The problem these racialist researchers are facing is, it doesn't matter how much spin they put into it. They cannot take North Africa out of Africa. Why? PN2-E!!!!!!!! As long as yDNA E remains in Africa. Berbers and other indigenous populations in North Africa are ......African and there wasn't and never was "back-migration".
Will you people calm down.
Notice at K4 LWK carry both green and blue. Why? IBD. Nothing can chnage that regardless of inference and how much they try to spin it.
They only way around that is they need to slectively sample or leave it certain groups or just out right lie. They haven't started lying and fudging data as yet.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Common sense tells you that if all humans originate in "Sub Saharan" Africa then that means the indigenous ancestral populations IN North Africa also originated from "Sub Saharan" Africans.
If one studies the prehistoric Maghreb there are long periods where there is no evidence of human settlement or remains. This corresponds to numerous changes in the climate not just more recent wet and dry periods
If one studies the prehistoric Maghreb anthropologists have noted of the different populations there appears to be discontinuity between them, hiatus periods of no human activity found between them.
You find in many places in the world. that ancient populations migrate or die out and new populations come in
and in North Africa new people coming in can come from all directions.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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What actual evidence do they have that Zenata and Sanhaja Berbers are descendants of slaves? I thought these two tribes were ancient Berbers. The Berber language originates in North-east Africa; the Tuaregs apparently have genetic linkage with the Beja -- which would mean that the original Berbers would have looked like North Sudanese. The Iberomaurusian were apparently a cold adapted population with Eurasian origins... but did they endure as a population in North-Africa or did they disappear like so many other populations? Attempts have been made to connect modern coastal Berbers with the Iberomaurusians but nothing seems concrete.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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What is the premise of the paper? Anyone willing to help me out here? It seems like they are saying that Henn screwed up and they are going to correct that mistake. As I stated about the Henn paper. She found no RECENT evidence of Arabians(Qatari) moving into North Africa during the Islamic period. She concluded ***if*** it did happened it happened close to 30K years ago. At the time period of OOA. She observed bottle neck in North Africans and concluded it is one and the same as OOA(non-Africans). Thus...back-migration.
Now these authors are stating ..what? Henn did not give the time from the Middle Eastern to back to North Africa. I thought she stated greater than 12Kya!! Or are they saying Middle Eastern and Arabian are different? Remember Henn covered her tracks (get out of jail free - in case I am caught lying) by stating to confirm her hypothesis YDNA needs to be included. Well. Guess what? It has already been done...PN2!!!!! lol!
Quote: groups. The presence of these components in the region, estimated by Fst methods and maximum likelihood approaches based on the analysis of tract lengths, suggested a back-to-Africa in pre-Holocene times (>12,000 ya) and recent sub-Saharan historical migrations, although the time estimates of the relevant Middle Eastern component in North Africa was not addressed. In additio
quote: compared to the rest of Arab samples in the study, which challenged the hypothesis of lack of genetic differentiation shown by uniparental markers.
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What is amazing also is that @K5 LWK shows red. The supposed unique Tunisian/North African marker?
As I told Lioness. LWK are ancestral top North African who are in turn ancestral to Europeans. Europeans are depigmented Africans.
This new data manipulation will not work. They are using a technique based upon haplotypes which is essentially large chunks of autosomal SNPs similar to Identification by Descent. But guess what it still will not work. The underlying problem is ...you guessed it. YDNa haplogroup E is African. E found in Arabia is YOUNGER and a sub-group of E found in Africa. They still need to get around and making YDNA as Non-African!!! THAT is a mammoth task. Lol! Don't worry about it. SMH
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Oh! I think I get it now. they are saying Syrians are Middle Easterners and Qataris are Arabians. Henn did NOT use Syrians in her study because she thought they were not indigenous to the region(they are Ottoman Turks). Qataris are heavily SSA Africanized as many papers has shown.
I guess this paper is trying to debunk Henn and claim Syrian Turks are indigenous. Now I get it.
But to those who can follow, remember DNATribes listed Syrians also as Turks/West Asian which is different from Sahara-Arabians. So who is right?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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So the paper is essentially a critique of Henns infamous paper because she did not include Syrians. Lol! Now if I am a betting man..,.,I will bet some of the authors are ....you guessed it...Syrians/or Otto Turks!!! wagers? The 4Ws never fail. Give it time, all Ottoman Turks will publish a paper proving they are indigenous.
And Comas is getting paid!!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: What actual evidence do they have that Zenata and Sanhaja Berbers are descendants of slaves? I thought these two tribes were ancient Berbers. The Berber language originates in North-east Africa; the Tuaregs apparently have genetic linkage with the Beja -- which would mean that the original Berbers would have looked like North Sudanese. The Iberomaurusian were apparently a cold adapted population with Eurasian origins... but did they endure as a population in North-Africa or did they disappear like so many other populations? Attempts have been made to connect modern coastal Berbers with the Iberomaurusians but nothing seems concrete.
I haven't seen these attempts made to connect modern coastal Berbers with the Iberomaurusians. Where are they? They are usually cited an example population discontinuity, they can't find a connection to modern North Africans (although there is the mtDNA Haplogroup H (but that is just as likely to have come with later populations) yes, they seem to have disappeared. But who came after them? The Capsians. Being relatively more recent they would be more likely to connect to modern North Africa populations. But there are still these hiatus periods in NA there is about 1000 years of no evidence of human settlement after the Capsians in the Maghreb until the Phoenicians and Greeks. Then after these cities rise up, Carthage, Utica etc. these will draw people from surrounding regions to them, internal and external to Africa
So how do we distinguish the foundation of cities in North Africa from possible remnant populations of who may or may not have survived form prehistoric times? we may never know
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^ Yet we've seen plenty of attempts on your part to connect Iberomarusians to Eurasians even though cranally not all but by and large they differ from Eurasians, and while the later Capsians are closer temporally to Berber speakers than Marusians, you connect Berbers with Eurasians and hg H. LOLPosts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Yet we've seen plenty of attempts on your part to connect Iberomarusians to Eurasians even though cranally not all but by and large they differ from Eurasians, and while the later Capsians are closer temporally to Berber speakers than Marusians, you connect Berbers with Eurasians and hg H. LOL
I truly wonder why that is, I mean the obsession is just abnormal.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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^ Yeah it's called Eurolunacy. All Euronuts suffer from it; its what makes them nutty.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Yeah, I have a very big problem with this study. Especially this part.
quote:Moreover, we infer a lower proportion of sub-Saharan ancestry older than previously described in all admixture events dated from the first century B.C., which could be attributed to more ancient slave trade during the Roman or Islamic periods, such as the servile Haratin population of Nilo-Saharan origin in Berber groups such as the Sanhadja and Zenata (Newman 1995).
Where the hell is Newman 1995 evidence for such thing? It seems Eurocentrics are now figuring out certain Berber groups like the Sanhadja and Zenata were not only desbribed as "black" by medieval Arab/European scholars but Berber groups like them played the MOST part in the Moorish conquest of southern Europe.
I have not read anywhere where Berber tribes like the Zenata and Sanhadja who were big players in the Moorish conquest(leaders) were not only of Nilo-Saharan descent of slaves. The Sandadja especially who were the founding people of the Almoravid dynasty! What hogwash is this? They only ASSUME that it was due to slavery during the Roman and Islamic period.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: [QB] Yeah, I have a very big problem with this study. Especially this part.
quote:Moreover, we infer a lower proportion of sub-Saharan ancestry older than previously described in all admixture events dated from the first century B.C., which could be attributed to more ancient slave trade during the Roman or Islamic periods, such as the servile Haratin population of Nilo-Saharan origin in Berber groups such as the Sanhadja and Zenata (Newman 1995).
Where the hell is Newman 1995 evidence for such thing?
see pages 81-83
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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That is what happens when you are a "yes" man and need to tug on another man's dick. Fugker won't read and formulate his own ideas.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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^ And what do you call an old geezer like yourself who tugs on his own dick and says yes to his own erroneous ideas?? One desperate loser in need of viagra?? LOLPosts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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You got Jokes?! This is more your thing. A comedian! The "double agent" thing is not working you don't have it in you.
I know he likes sucking yours, you fag!
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ And what do you call an old geezer like yourself who tugs on his own dick and says yes to his own erroneous ideas?? One desperate loser in need of viagra?? LOL
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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I will tell you what. I am sure you were a pussy all through grade school? You still haven't out-grown it. REALLY! Still a punk. I can tell just by your writing style. Str8up punk and if I am a betting man. You are Pakistani or Hindu Indian. That personality reeks. East Asian and the like has more nuts. That Philopino thing is just made up BS on your part as a cover. Am I right?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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yes to what? he is a punk? or he is a Hindu Philopino? If there is such a thing
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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You can tell "soul-less" punks and yes men get under my skin. I have no problem going head to head with whoever, I will respect that person whether black, white or what- ever. I just can't stand brown-nosing....like DJ and his double speak.
Come on DJ, man up! Say what you believe!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: You can tell "soul-less" punks and yes men get under my skin. I have no problem going head to head with whoever, I will respect that person whether black, white or what- ever. I just can't stand brown-nosing....like DJ and his double speak.
Come on DJ, man up! Say what you believe!
He's got to be a Filipino. The name Djehuti is an ancient Filipino name
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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*sigh* Swenet, at this point the only option is to ignore these buffoons. There is no point in engaging them. Xyz is not only ignorant and confused on matters of population genetics but he he seems to be exhibiting paranoid delusions on me. Lioness on the other hand is an agent-provocateur who is a miserable failure at her role so only resorts to instigating the intellectually helpless like xyzman. Only a professional mental health expert can help them now.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Lioness on the other hand is an agent-provocateur
the discussions in the forum for a while have been civilized for a good while now. Djehuti taunted me a lot on Jebel Sahaba but I remained restrained.
Then in my thread Origin of Ancient Canary Islanders Guanches he called be a "Stupid cunt".
So when Djehuti enters into the forum he invariably brings down the level into low class trash talk. That is by definition trolling That's his m.o. He never changes. He's a trashy person from a trashy background.
Just like xyyman says he's the ultimate brown-noser. He thinks a forum is supposed to be a club where everybody agrees with each other just discussing minor details. When someone disagrees with him. Sooner or later he will revert to his core infant
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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lol! You picked up on that also. "HEEEEELLLP Swenet I want to be your friend. I need a buddy and friend here to take care of the x-man and the Lioness crew". Ha Ha!
Come on DJ grow some!
BTW DJ is no Filopino. Don’t believe it for a second. He is lying!
He is as Filopino as Ausar was “Egyptian”. Lol! Remember Ausar parting shot at me. “I always picked on him and did not like him”. Stupid man did not realize I was unto his gig long before he came clean. I smell a rat with DJ. DJ is a rat. You need to parse their words.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^ calling for help
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: That is what happens when you are a "yes" man and need to tug on another man's dick. Fugker won't read and formulate his own ideas.
Wait are you referring to me?
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: the discussions in the forum for a while have been civilized for a good while now. Djehuti taunted me a lot on Jebel Sahaba but I remained restrained.
Translation: Nobody has called out my b.s. for a good while now. But Djehuti exposed my nonsense on Jebel Sahaba but I remain to my slick calm as a snake ways.
quote:Then in my thread Origin of Ancient Canary Islanders Guanches he called be a "Stupid cunt".
Again, your follower Xyzman wrote those words not I. I merely stated that best defines you while he is even lower.
quote:So when Djehuti enters into the forum he invariably brings down the level into low class trash talk. That is by definition trolling That's his m.o. He never changes. He's a trashy person from a trashy background.
Again, that was your boy Xyz. I merely retorted. Unlike him I won't "play along" with you, child the way this senile grandpa thinks he's playing with his grandkid.
quote:Just like xyyman says he's the ultimate brown-noser. He thinks a forum is supposed to be a club where everybody agrees with each other just discussing minor details. When someone disagrees with him. Sooner or later he will revert to his core infant
Again with the lying tactic of making FALSE notions of what I said or in this case think. Of course everyone doesn't have to agree. But make no mistake, if one disagrees they have to put forth a valid reason why and not some wishful thinking or fancy that those with a biased agenda do i.e. Euronuts like you and your mistress Mathilda. Sooner or later, the pressure whether it comes from me or someone else will get to you and you will eventually shed your snaky calm demeanor.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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BTW DJ is no Filopino. Don’t believe it for a second. He is lying!
He is as Filopino as Ausar was “Egyptian”. Lol! Remember Ausar parting shot at me. “I always picked on him and did not like him”. Stupid man did not realize I was unto his gig long before he came clean.
You can believe whatever you want. One poster in here thought I was some (gay?) dude in Amsterdam. Another thought I was a black Afrocentric from Canada or something. Apparently YOU think I am a (Indian?) Hindu! LOL Go go head grandpa and fantasize whatever you want about me.
quote:I smell a rat with DJ. DJ is a rat. You need to parse their words.
Actually the rat is lioness but you are too dumb to know this apparently.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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Swenet, at this point the only option is to ignore these buffoons. There is no point in engaging them. Xyz is not only ignorant and confused on matters of population genetics but he he seems to be exhibiting paranoid delusions on me. Lioness on the other hand is an agent-provocateur who is a miserable failure at her role so only resorts to instigating the intellectually helpless like xyzman. Only a professional mental health expert can help them now.
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