quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: David Comas never really explained what this specific component is. He explains that it did evolve in Africa and that the descendants with that component returned to Africa.
Other than the descriptions given in the paper, what else, specifically, should he have explained?
The markers he refers at. I now feel like being left in the dark.
^^^ this is a 2012 Univ or Barcelona news release for the article, both David Comas and Brenna Henn are included in authors (Comas, Univ Barcelona, Brenna Henn, Stanford)
And just to verify the below is the article they are referring to they used the first chart in the news item from the below article
____________
Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations Brenna M. Henn , Laura R. Botigué , Simon Gravel, Wei Wang, Abra Brisbin, Jake K. Byrnes, Karima Fadhlaoui-Zid, Pierre A. Zalloua, Andres Moreno-Estrada, Jaume Bertranpetit, Carlos D. Bustamante , David Comas Published: January 12, 2012
Abstract
North African populations are distinct from sub-Saharan Africans based on cultural, linguistic, and phenotypic attributes; however, the time and the extent of genetic divergence between populations north and south of the Sahara remain poorly understood. Here, we interrogate the multilayered history of North Africa by characterizing the effect of hypothesized migrations from the Near East, Europe, and sub-Saharan Africa on current genetic diversity. We present dense, genome-wide SNP genotyping array data (730,000 sites) from seven North African populations, spanning from Egypt to Morocco, and one Spanish population. We identify a gradient of likely autochthonous Maghrebi ancestry that increases from east to west across northern Africa; this ancestry is likely derived from “back-to-Africa” gene flow more than 12,000 years ago (ya), prior to the Holocene. The indigenous North African ancestry is more frequent in populations with historical Berber ethnicity. In most North African populations we also see substantial shared ancestry with the Near East, and to a lesser extent sub-Saharan Africa and Europe. To estimate the time of migration from sub-Saharan populations into North Africa, we implement a maximum likelihood dating method based on the distribution of migrant tracts. In order to first identify migrant tracts, we assign local ancestry to haplotypes using a novel, principal component-based analysis of three ancestral populations. We estimate that a migration of western African origin into Morocco began about 40 generations ago (approximately 1,200 ya); a migration of individuals with Nilotic ancestry into Egypt occurred about 25 generations ago (approximately 750 ya). Our genomic data reveal an extraordinarily complex history of migrations, involving at least five ancestral populations, into North Africa.
Do current North Africans retain genetic continuity with the first modern human occupants of northern Africa from more than 50,000 years ago (ya) or was northern Africa primarily repopulated during the Holocene by herding and farming populations from elsewhere? Evidence of Neolithic migration from the Near East is supported by the introduction of domestic animals like cows, sheep and goats to North Africa. But the indigenous development of ceramics in Saharan Africa by 9,000 ya is also suggestive of an incipient form of agriculture or pastoralism, prior to any demic diffusion from the Near East
After accounting for putative recent admixture (Figure 1), the indigenous Maghrebi component (k-based) is estimated to have diverged from Near Eastern/Europeans between 18–38 Kya
In summary, although paleoanthropological evidence has established the ancient presence of anatomically modern humans in northern Africa prior to 60,000 ya [35], the simplest interpretation of our results is that the majority of ancestry in modern North Africans derives from populations outside of Africa
Our results suggest that sub-Saharan African and Maghreb admixture is considerably more recent, 24–41 generations ago
Assuming a 30-year generation time [41], the proposed migration of sub-Saharans to southern Morocco at about 1,200 years ago coincides with the rise of the Ghana Empire, involved in the trans-Saharan slave trading, and the “Great Berber Uprising” which established Berber kingdoms throughout Morocco.
Conclusion
Our genome-wide dense genotyping data from seven North African populations allow us to address outstanding questions regarding the origin and migration history of North Africa. We propose that present-day ancestry in North Africa is the result of at least three distinct episodes: ancient “back-to-Africa” gene flow prior to the Holocene, more recent gene flow from the Near East resulting in a longitudinal gradient, and limited but very recent migrations from sub-Saharan Africa
_________________________________
Now with this in mind we return to press release:
quote:
A native genetic component defines North Africans
To answer these questions, the researchers analyzed around 800,000 genetic markers, distributed throughout the entire genome in 125 North African individuals belonging to seven representative populations in the whole region, and the information obtained was compared with the information from the neighbouring populations.
The results of this study show that there is a native genetic component which defines North Africans. In-depth study of these markers, shows that the people inhabiting North Africa today are not descendants of either the earliest occupants of this region fifty thousand years ago, or descendants of the most recent Neolithic populations.
The ancestors of modern North Africans returned to Africa
The data shows that the ancestors of today's North Africans were a group of populations which already lived in the region around thirteen thousand years ago. Furthermore, this local North African genetic component is very different from the one found in the populations in the south of the Sahara, which shows that the ancestors of today's North Africans were members of a subgroup of humanity who left Africa to conquer the rest of the world and who subsequently returned to the north of the continent to settle in the region.
Swenet this commentary is a bit confusing. They are calling a genetic component that left Africa and then came back "native" and they don't say exactly what it is, no mention of M81
Yet in the actual article the word "native" is not even used. One might conclude disregard the news letter's "native genetic component" and just go by the source research article because it's confusing to call back migration "native"
the indigenous Maghrebi component (k-based) is estimated to have diverged from Near Eastern/Europeans between 18–38 Kya
A gradient also appears in the higher k ancestral population plots of the ADMIXTURE analysis (Figure 1). Assuming 4 or more ancestral populations (k = 4 through 10, Figure S1) there is a cline of putative autochthonous North African ancestry decreasing in frequency from Western Sahara eastward to Egypt. We refer to this North African ancestral component as the “Maghrebi” throughout the remainder of the paper, reflecting the primary geographic distribution of this ancestry in the Maghreb: West Sahara, Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. The west-to-east decline in Maghrebi assignment is only interrupted by the Tunisian Berbers, who are assigned nearly 100% Maghrebi ancestry.
We used the Saharawi as our proxy Maghrebi population, since the high relatedness in the Tunisian samples is likely to cause reduced ability to infer Maghrebi tracts in more diverse populations. Our sample of Tunisian Berbers retains the highest amount of Maghrebi ancestry, without substantial evidence of admixture with sub-Saharan, European or Near Eastern populations. However, their bimodal mean IBD distribution [Figure 4A] indicates a high proportion of 1st–2nd cousin equivalents and suggest that our sample of Tunisian Berbers comes from an isolated, endogamous population with diversity that is likely reduced relative to other Maghrebi populations. Thus, although their low degree of non-Maghrebi admixture might make them ideal as a Maghrebi source population,
The key here are certain Tunisian berbers who are assigned nearly 100% Maghrebi ancestry.
The genetic component talked about that defines North Africans according to the article would be E-M81, we already knew this. So what they mean when they say "native" is a back migration from Eurasia in prehistoric times that occurred prior to later foreign influx during historical periods in the Mahgreb
____________________________
% Y-DNA E-M81
Tunisia/Chenini–Douiret Berbers 100%
Tunisia/Jradou Berbers 100%
Tunisia/Bou Saad Berbers 92%
Villaggio Chenini
Mountainside Berber Village of Chenini, troglodyte dwellings
A Berber man in traditional dress leaves his house to go shopping in Chenini, south Tunisia
posted
^I have no clue why you tell me what I mean / refer to, or even what David Comas means, when he clearly stated what he stated, what the intention was of that study.
And Chenini is not even Southern Tunisia, neither is any of the places you posted about. All you post is rubbish and troll the forum with that stuff.
This is what the people look like on average, at Southern Tunis:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "The genetic component talked about that defines North Africans according to the article would be E-M81"
LOL So you are saying that David Comas said that E-M81 made it back to North Africa, by a back migration? Where was any mention of this?
quote:
According to David Comas, coordinator of the study and researcher at the Institute for Evolutionary Biology (CSIC-UPF), "some of the questions we wanted to answer were whether today's inhabitants are direct descendants of the populations with the oldest archaeological remains in the region, dating back fifty thousand years, or whether they are descendants of the Neolithic populations in the Middle East which introduced agriculture to the region around eight thousand years ago. We also wondered if there had been any genetic exchange between the North African populations and the neighbouring regions and if so, when these took place.
The ancestors of modern North Africans returned to Africa
The data shows that the ancestors of today's North Africans were a group of populations which already lived in the region around thirteen thousand years ago.
Furthermore, this local North African genetic component is very different from the one found in the populations in the south of the Sahara, which shows that the ancestors of today's North Africans were members of a subgroup of humanity who left Africa to conquer the rest of the world and who subsequently returned to the north of the continent to settle in the region.
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: the indigenous Maghrebi component (k-based) is estimated to have diverged from Near Eastern/Europeans between 18–38 Kya
Actually it says:
quote:
-After accounting for putative recent admixture (Figure 1), the indigenous Maghrebi component (k-based) is estimated to have diverged from Near Eastern/Europeans between 18–38 Kya (Figure 3), under a range of Ne and k values.
-We hence suggest that the ancestral Maghrebi population separated from Near Eastern/Europeans prior to the Holocene, and that the Maghrebi populations do not represent a large-scale demic diffusion of agropastoralists from the Near East.
The above can be interpreted as bidirectional, or unidirectional, have your pick.
Further more:
quote: Population Structure
An unsupervised clustering algorithm, ADMIXTURE [25], was run on our seven new North African populations, Spanish Basque,
Near Eastern Qatari, western Africans, HapMap3 Kenyan Luhya, Maasai and Italian Tuscans.
Nine ancestral clusters (k = 2 through 10) in total were tested successively. Log likelihoods for each k clusters are available in Figure S1B.
Fst based on allele frequencies was calculated in ADMIXTURE for each identified cluster at k = 8.
Given the high heterogeneity in Qatari population, we present individuals with the lowest sub-Saharan, European and North African ancestries and higher Near Eastern ancestry, based on ADMIXTURE.
Multidimensional scaling (MDS) was applied to the pairwise IBS Matrix of 279,528 SNPs using PLINK 1.07 software [45].
The top three MDS components were plotted together using R 2.11.1. Population divergence estimates from the cluster-based allele frequencies from ADMIXTURE were obtained using [46]:
(computation mapped)
The cluster-based allele frequencies will be less biased by recent migration between populations.
Estimates of population divergence, though potentially older if migration is unaccounted for in the Fst estimate, are unlikely to be younger if the range of Ne sizes is realistic.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: We used the Saharawi as our proxy Maghrebi population, since the high relatedness in the Tunisian samples is likely to cause reduced ability to infer Maghrebi tracts in more diverse populations.
quote: Haplogroup E is the most frequent haplogroup in Africa, but is also found in the Middle East, southern Europe and Asia (Cruciani et al., 2002; Semino et al., 2004; Karafet et al., 2008). Among its sub-clades, E-M81 and E-M78 seem to be of North African origin with Paleolithic and Neolithic expansions that reached surrounding areas (Arredi et al., 2004; Cruciani et al., 2007).
Firstly, E-M81 is the most common haplogroup in North Africa showing its highest concentrations in Northwestern Africa (76 % in Saharawis in Morocco (Arredi et al., 2004)) with cline frequencies decreasing eastward: Algeria (45 %), Libya (34 %) and Egypt (10 %) (Robino et al., 2008; Triki-Fendri et al., submitted; Arredi et al., 2004).
Besides, Ottoni et al., (2011) have reported that E-M81 appear to constitute a common paternal genetic matrix in the Tuareg populations where it was encountered at high frequency (89 %).
Hence, the distribution of this haplogroup in Africa closely matches the present area of Berber-speaking population’s allocation on the continent, suggesting a close haplogroup-ethnic group parallelism (Bosch et al., 2001; Cruciani et al., 2002; 2004; Arredi et al., 2004; Fadhlaoui-Zid et al., 2011; Bekada et al., 2013). However, knowing that the Berber dialects have been replaced by Arabic in North African populations, carriers of E-M81 haplogroup are currently Arab-speaking peoples whose ancestors were Berber-speaking.
Outside of Africa, E-M81 is almost absent in the Middle East and in Europe (with the exception of Iberia and Sicily). The presence of E-M81 in the Iberian Peninsula (12 % in southern Portugal) (Cruciani et al., 2004) has been attributed to trans-Mediterranean contacts linked to the Islamic influence, since it is typically Berber (Bosch et al., 2001; Semino et al., 2004; Beleza et al., 2006; Alvarez et al., 2009; Cruciani et al., 2007; Trombetta et al., 2011).
—S Triki-Fendri, A Rebai 2015
Synthetic review on the genetic relatedness between North Africa and Arabia deduced from paternal lineage distributions
quote:First, we build a maximum-likelihood tree setting the position of the root at the Yoruba (Figure 4B). South Moroccans and Saharawi appear close to Yoruba while Egyptians are on a branch leading to Middle Easterners and Basque.
--Karima Fadhlaoui-Zid
Genome-Wide and Paternal Diversity Reveal a Recent Origin of Human Populations in North Africa
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CARTA: Ancient DNA and Human Evolution – Brenna Henn: The Origins of Modern Humans in Africa
Brenna Henn (Stony Brook Univ) explores patterns of genetic diversity across Africa and models for modern human origins in this talk. She discusses whether genetic data is concordant with archaeological data and suggests directions for future research. Series: "CARTA - Center for Academic Research and Training in Anthropogeny" [Science] [Show ID: 30979]
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: ^I have no clue why you tell me what I mean / refer to, or even what David Comas means, when he clearly stated what he stated, what the intention was of that study.
idiot you kept asking Swenet about it >
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: David Comas never really explained what this specific component is. He explains that it did evolve in Africa and that the descendants with that component returned to Africa.
Other than the descriptions given in the paper, what else, specifically, should he have explained?
The markers he refers at. I now feel like being left in the dark.
Now I'm telling you what it is, E-M81
because that was not stated by Comas it as an Fst analysis using ADMIXTURE
but is was stated in the source article he authored with Brenna Henn
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: [QB] ^I have no clue why you tell me what I mean / refer to, or even what David Comas means, when he clearly stated what he stated, what the intention was of that study.
And Chenini is not even Southern Tunisia, neither is any of the places you posted about. All you post is rubbish and troll the forum with that stuff.
This is what the people look like on average, at Southern Tunis:
You are a jackass picture spamming troll
^dancers from Douz
read the article you fool, it's not about random picture spamming of Southern Tunisia . It's about specific berber villages from analysis published in 2012 not 2004 (your misdirects are endless) Dancers in Douz are part of a celebration where dancers come form all over the Sahara. Again, you pretend to know what you are talking about but you don't
You should have waited for Swenet because right now you are in a highly emotional knee jerk frame of mind, stating misinformation
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posted
When you look at some of the comments of Kefi, Harich and others who study North Africa, they're just as clueless about African history as some of the trolls online are.
They play a useful role in terms of sequencing DNA, summarizing the literature and things of that nature. But when it comes to really making strides in terms of constructing a coherent story out of their data, their contributions are weak and sometimes unscientific.
Any strides in forming a good picture is going to have to come from the blogs. Because they've proven they can't do it. And that's not a call for lay people to start making blogs. We don't need more opinionated Amun Ra the Ultimates. We need more people like Maju and Ethiohelix.
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: ^I have no clue why you tell me what I mean / refer to, or even what David Comas means, when he clearly stated what he stated, what the intention was of that study.
idiot you kept asking Swenet about it >
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: David Comas never really explained what this specific component is. He explains that it did evolve in Africa and that the descendants with that component returned to Africa.
Other than the descriptions given in the paper, what else, specifically, should he have explained?
The markers he refers at. I now feel like being left in the dark.
Now I'm telling you what it is, E-M81
because that was not stated by Comas it as an Fst analysis using ADMIXTURE
but is was stated in the source article he authored with Brenna Henn
But E-M81 is not 13 Kya old. Neither did it go out of Africa to come back, in recent times. E-M81 is estimated between 10 and 6 Kya.
quote: The data shows that the ancestors of today's North Africans were a group of populations which already lived in the region around thirteen thousand years ago.
Davis Comas.
quote: The most common lineage was the North African haplogroup E-M81 (71%), being fixed in two Berber samples (Chenini-Douiret and Jradou), suggesting isolation and genetic drift.
[...]
The paternal gene pool in the studied Tunisian populations is characterized by the high frequency of the specific North African haplogroup E-M81 (E1b1b1b lineage), comprising 71% of the Y-chromosome lineages and being the only haplogroup present in Berber samples from Chenini–Douiret and Jradou.
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But even if it weren't that old, it doesn't follow that a younger age of E-M81 would disprove what lioness says.
Only thing that matters for this prediction to be valid is that E-Z827 has an ancient presence in the Maghreb and is phylogenetically related to the Maghebi component.
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: [QB] ^I have no clue why you tell me what I mean / refer to, or even what David Comas means, when he clearly stated what he stated, what the intention was of that study.
And Chenini is not even Southern Tunisia, neither is any of the places you posted about. All you post is rubbish and troll the forum with that stuff.
This is what the people look like on average, at Southern Tunis:
You are a jackass picture spamming troll
^dancers from Douz
read the article you fool, it's not about random picture spamming of Southern Tunisia . It's about specific berber villages from analysis published in 2012 not 2004 (your misdirects are endless) Dancers in Douz are part of a celebration where dancers come form all over the Sahara. Again, you pretend to know what you are talking about but you don't
You should have waited for Swenet because right now you are in a highly emotional knee jerk frame of mind, stating misinformation
It amuses me how you get so upset over what that people look like at the Southern part of North Africa. And do you have any idea how funny it looks when you call people picture spamming trolls. Racist piece of ****! It is obvious that you hate what these people look like, with a passion. lol
But even if it weren't that old, it doesn't follow that a younger age of E-M81 would disprove what lioness says.
Only thing that matters for this prediction to be valid is that E-Z827 has an ancient presence in the Maghreb and is phylogenetically related to the Maghebi component.
To clarify, this observation doesn't mean I'm in total agreement with lioness. in my view the Maghrebi component is only partly African.
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And Chenini is not even Southern Tunisia, neither is any of the places you posted about. All you post is rubbish and troll the forum with that stuff.
Chenini is in Southern Tunisia you witless buffoon
again your comprehension is off
I made a mistake in thinking of another place and mixed it up. But for you to go all ape, is hilarious since you are 99% of the time off like a what do you call it witless buffoon. That's right!
But since Chenini is in the Southern part of Tunis, it only destroys your argument even further, witless buffoon.
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But even if it weren't that old, it doesn't follow that a younger age of E-M81 would disprove what lioness says.
[b]Only thing that matters for this prediction to be valid is that E-Z827 has an ancient presence in the Maghreb and is phylogenetically related to the Maghebi component.
To clarify, this observation doesn't mean I'm in total agreement with lioness. in my view the Maghrebi component is only partly African. [/QB]
So the component E-M81 made a back to Africa, and is not due to local adaption? And is actually older?
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posted
I never said that. A "partly African" Maghrebi component leaves room for E-M81 to be African.
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: I never said that. A "partly African" Maghrebi component leaves room for E-M81 to be African.
Do you mean E-M81 originated outside of Africa, instead of the Magreb?
quote: Haplogroup E-M35 is bifurcated in two sister branches which are defined by Z827 and V68, respectively.
Within E-Z827 we identified a new clade (E-V1515), which includes all the sub-Saharan haplogroups (E-V42, E-M293, E-V92, and E-V6) reported as E-M35 basal clades in the phylogeny by Trombetta et al. (2011) (supplementary fig. S2A, Supplementary Material online), as well as six new subhaplogroups. All the chromosomes previously referred to as paragroup E-M35*(×V92, V42, V6, M123, V68, M293, and V257) are now assigned to five different branches all belonging to haplogroup E-V1515 (fig. 2).
--Beniamino Trombetta
Phylogeographic Refinement and Large Scale Genotyping of Human Y Chromosome Haplogroup E Provide New Insights into the Dispersal of Early Pastoralists in the African Continent
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posted
Like I said in the post you're responding to, a link between the Maghrebi component and E-M81 doesn't have to mean E-M81 is not African as the component is hybrid.
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Like I said in the post you're responding to, a link between the Maghrebi component and E-M81 doesn't have to mean E-M81 is not African as the component is hybrid.
Swenet, what do you mean by it's a hybrid? A hybrid in what sense? Perhaps I am overlooking something. Do you mean that the parental clade is from outside of Africa?
quote: In this study we analyzed 295 unrelated Berber-speaking men from northern, central, and southern Morocco to characterize frequency of the E1b1b1b-M81 haplogroup and to refine the phylogeny of its subclades: E1b1b1b1-M107, E1b1b1b2-M183, and E1b1b1b2a-M165. For this purpose, we typed four biallelic polymorphisms: M81, M107, M183, and M165. A large majority of the Berber-speaking male lineages belonged to the Y-chromosomal E1b1b1b-M81 haplogroup. The frequency ranged from 79.1% to 98.5% in all localities sampled. E1b1b1b2-M183 was the most dominant subclade in our samples, ranging from 65.1% to 83.1%. In contrast, the E1b1b1b1-M107 and E1b1b1b2a-M165 subclades were not found in our samples. Our results suggest a predominance of the E1b1b1b-M81 haplogroup among Moroccan Berber-speaking males with a decreasing gradient from south to north. The most prevalent subclade in this haplogroup was E1b1b1b2-M183, for which diffferences among these three groups were statistically significant between central and southern groups.
--Reguig A1, Harich N2, Barakat A1, Rouba H1.
Hum Biol. 2014 Spring;86(2):105-12.
Phylogeography of E1b1b1b-M81 haplogroup and analysis of its subclades in Morocco.
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posted
you know Kalonji/Swenet is a conman? don't you? He is like Lioness. Diversity in Africa is due to Eurasian admixture.
Know who is who on this board. But play along with him.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote: In this study we analyzed 295 unrelated Berber-speaking men from northern, central, and southern Morocco to characterize frequency of the E1b1b1b-M81 haplogroup and to refine the phylogeny of its subclades: E1b1b1b1-M107, E1b1b1b2-M183, and E1b1b1b2a-M165. For this purpose, we typed four biallelic polymorphisms: M81, M107, M183, and M165. A large majority of the Berber-speaking male lineages belonged to the Y-chromosomal E1b1b1b-M81 haplogroup. The frequency ranged from 79.1% to 98.5% in all localities sampled. E1b1b1b2-M183 was the most dominant subclade in our samples, ranging from 65.1% to 83.1%. In contrast, the E1b1b1b1-M107 and E1b1b1b2a-M165 subclades were not found in our samples. Our results suggest a predominance of the E1b1b1b-M81 haplogroup among Moroccan Berber-speaking males with a decreasing gradient from south to north. The most prevalent subclade in this haplogroup was E1b1b1b2-M183, for which diffferences among these three groups were statistically significant between central and southern groups.
--Reguig A1, Harich N2, Barakat A1, Rouba H1.
Hum Biol. 2014 Spring;86(2):105-12.
Phylogeography of E1b1b1b-M81 haplogroup and analysis of its subclades in Morocco.
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posted
"Oh, my god. Outrageous! Swenet said most Taforalt and Afalou mtDNA lineages are Eurasian and that this has implications for the Maghrebi component. Heresy!" —Xyyman
Take your meds. You look befuddled again.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: you know Kalonji/Swenet is a conman? don't you? He is like Lioness. Diversity in Africa is due to Eurasian admixture.
Know who is who on this board. But play along with him.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote: In this study we analyzed 295 unrelated Berber-speaking men from northern, central, and southern Morocco to characterize frequency of the E1b1b1b-M81 haplogroup and to refine the phylogeny of its subclades: E1b1b1b1-M107, E1b1b1b2-M183, and E1b1b1b2a-M165. For this purpose, we typed four biallelic polymorphisms: M81, M107, M183, and M165. A large majority of the Berber-speaking male lineages belonged to the Y-chromosomal E1b1b1b-M81 haplogroup. The frequency ranged from 79.1% to 98.5% in all localities sampled. E1b1b1b2-M183 was the most dominant subclade in our samples, ranging from 65.1% to 83.1%. In contrast, the E1b1b1b1-M107 and E1b1b1b2a-M165 subclades were not found in our samples. Our results suggest a predominance of the E1b1b1b-M81 haplogroup among Moroccan Berber-speaking males with a decreasing gradient from south to north. The most prevalent subclade in this haplogroup was E1b1b1b2-M183, for which diffferences among these three groups were statistically significant between central and southern groups.
--Reguig A1, Harich N2, Barakat A1, Rouba H1.
Hum Biol. 2014 Spring;86(2):105-12.
Phylogeography of E1b1b1b-M81 haplogroup and analysis of its subclades in Morocco.
I am not sure if that is what he means, in debates with AMRTU he made his position clear dispersals caused for bottleneck events from Africa into the middle east, leading to have larger populations with the same component outside of Africa.
And this is what Brenna Henn explains on panmixia.
See above. "CARTA: Ancient DNA and Human Evolution – Brenna Henn: The Origins of Modern Humans in Africa"
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posted
uhh for lay people, what is the significance of this results or umm how do Magrhebi genetics play into African studies as a whole???
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posted
This is getting tiresome. We already know what "Maghrebi ancestry" entails. Swenet and others have pointed it out before including here.
LOL The Lioness is desperate. She knows she lost Egypt and the Nile Valley so her only great white-wash hope is now the Maghreb. This is why she keeps creating threads on the SAME OL' STUFF on the Maghreb. Countless threads on Maghrebi ancestry have been created in this forum for many years now including many by Lioness before.
All the picture spamming of modern day Tunisians or other Maghrebis will not change anything. Accordingia to Manilius the Maure and Afri of the Maghreb were listed among the black peoples. Other Romans described Tunisian and other Maghrebi inhabitants i.e. Numidians, Maesyli, and others as dark-skinned.
There are even mosaic portraits like these below:
No amount of posturing on Eurasian ancestry or distortion of findings will not change things.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
What the OP ie Kefi et al is stating is that Maghrebians did not originate from Sub-Sahran Africa. She was also did NOT state they originated from Europe either because the data do NOT support that. She used mtDNA-H as her point of reference. But interesting a lot is revealed in these papers if you take your time to read and understand the material. What she disclosed and implied is that mtDNA-H has a Paleolithic presence in Africa and NOT a Helocene per Ottini and Achilli, Cruiciani etc. So in other words the "Eurasian" labeled DNA was in Africa long BEFORE entry into Europe. Keeping in mind HG of Europe carried mtDNA-U NOT mtDNA-H. Significance?
Also keep in mind she used mtDNA-L as a source SSA population. Keep in mind SSA East Africans carry MtDNA-H and the upstream clades like , HV, R and N*. So obviously West Africa was not the source. She should have included SSA East Africa like Kenya and Sudan etc. Keeping in mind yDNA-E has East African origins and apparently is the sexual mate(along with G) of mtDNA-H. In this instance I am talking E1b1b* and not E1b1a-M2 which has RECENT appaarance/TMRCA.
She further agreed that a NEW SSA appearance carrying mtDNA L was primariliy responsible for the Neolithic appreance and innovation in North Africa circa 9000ya. In other words she is agreeing that SSA was in North Africa since 9000ya. So Apparently these Paleolithic North Africans were NOT farmers but Hundter gatherers until the appearance of these Sub-Saharan Africans.
quote:: uhh for lay people, what is the significance of this results or umm how do Magrhebi genetics play into African studies as a whole???
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
And if I am a betting man. My money is that they were jet black in skin tone like La Brana and Neanderthal. Since it seems like Humans and humanoids were primarily black until from 300,000ya - 8,000ya!!! So Were North Africans black during the Paleolithic just as Europeans. I would bet on a ...emphatic...YES!!!!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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This is getting tiresome. We already know what "Maghrebi ancestry" entails. Swenet and others have pointed it out before including ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
The Lioness is desperate. She knows she lost Egypt and the Nile Valley so her only great white-wash hope is now the Maghreb. This is why she keeps creating threads on the SAME OL' STUFF on the Maghreb. Countless threads on Maghrebi ancestry have been created in this forum for many years now including many by Lioness before.
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