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Author Topic: Because some fools don't know how to make their own thread about the race of kemet
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quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
^^^Yeah Ive seen this argument being spouted on various forums and youtube...

lol I had to read the Rational Wiki..

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Egyptsearch

I honestly think they are misrepresenting most of our position here, though to their credit they attack Phonecian7 for her(didnt know it was a female) Caucasian Egypt theories...so I guess they're fair at least..lol

hi, I wrote all those. go click on the clyde winters. I attack everyone. i'm racist but I got made an admin on that wiki and I just used it to my advantage [ that wiki is actually radically left wing]

clyde completely debunked:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Clyde_Winters#Celts_as_.22Black.22

my most recent article -
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Joshua_Conner_Moon

LOL, impersonating an a anti-racist-
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Anti_racist_activist

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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted -Just Call Me Jari-:
^^^Yeah Ive seen this argument being spouted on various forums and youtube...

And they get destroyed every time. Here is one in particular who likened Black Lives Matter to KKK and note how she can't defend her position when push comes to shove:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2xv4fba65U

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
I have presented the genomic evidence of the relationship between African and mongoloid Native Americans.



But you would say the exact same thing about any population anywhere in the world. Before, on many threads you were saying that the "mongoloid" Native Americans are different now you are saying they are related to Africans.

You switch arguments when convenient.

Now you say you have presented the genomic evidence of the relationship between African and mongoloid Native Americans, but you would say the exact same thing about any population anywhere in the world when it's convenient.

Example:

"I have presented the genomic evidence of the relationship between African and ________________________"

Just fill in the blank ^^^ with any population anywhere in the world

So Donald Trump could be filled in and you would say I have presented the genomic evidence of the relationship between African and European, haplogroups R and H are African. "
You have the same answer every time, that all haplogroups originated in Africa,

And Clyde it is easier to find R and H in Africa than it is Q and X,
What percentage of African Americans do you think carry Q and X DNA and at a significant frequency?

Your position is that all haplogroups evolved in Africa
so none are non-African

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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Well the guy does suffer from mental illness, which is why it's beyond me why you or anybody else takes him seriously. For real though, I have sympathy for his plight but I am not going to actually treat him the way I would a fully mentally competent person.

I'm on the autism spectrum like he supposedly is, and I don't feel bad for him at all. Autism can't account for all his pathological dishonesty, trolling, impersonation of others, stalking, racism, and generally awful behavior. He's got to be comorbid with something else even worse than autism, if it's something that can be diagnosed with the DSM-IV at all.
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:
Originally posted -Just Call Me Jari-:
^^^Yeah Ive seen this argument being spouted on various forums and youtube...

And they get destroyed every time. Here is one in particular who likened Black Lives Matter to KKK and note how she can't defend her position when push comes to shove:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2xv4fba65U

lol you fool. I debunked that BLM nonsense so easy.

They should have called it instead "African-American Lives Matter". Secondly the BLM is not just about "black lives matter", here are their goals:


“”(a) “an immediate end to police brutality”; (b) “full, living-wage employment for our people”; (c) “decent housing”; (d) “freedom from mass incarceration”; (e) “a public education system that teaches the rich history of Black people”; and (f) “the release of all U.S. political prisoners.”


Its seems to be a political movement with ties to black nationalism. Most of these points are also ridiculous i.e. give all black folks "decent housing" (what about everyone else that lives in poverty but is not 'black'? they don't mention those and don't seem to care about them). Also note they invite black supremacists such as Malik Zulu Shabazz to their meetings. [1] Krom (talk) 18:27, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Black Lives Matter is a racist movement filled with black supremacists.Krom (talk) 22:10, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
BLM movement chant "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon!"? and other kill policeman chants Krom (talk) 22:42, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNxoeqf0Ws

Criminal lives matter?

Alton Sterling - convicted paedophile, violent gang member

http://archive.is/G1RFs

BLM's new "saint", Alton Sterling, is a convicted paedophile and registered sex offender, also a violent gang member.

Paedophile lives matter? Schizophrenic (talk) 22:02, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
Waa Waa paedo! Waa Waa! **** off. PBfreespace3 (talk) 23:06, 14 July 2016 (UTC) The point is that whether or not the guy deserves to die, the police shouldn't be the ones doing the killing. Is that so hard to understand? CorruptUser (talk) 23:09, 14 July 2016 (UTC) And why is it hard to understand paedophile lives don't matter? Most people want them dead.Schizophrenic (talk) 23:14, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

The vast majority of "black lives" victims are gangbangers, pedophiles, thieves and other criminals. they aren't innocent people.

look at this guy right here-
http://archive.is/G1RFs

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quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
I like how Clyde keeps trying to convince people that his pseudo-scholarship is taken serious in real academic sources...lol, Stop Clyde Beyoku is an intelligent person she's not buying you're revisionist crap....I think Beyoku is onto something though I think Clyde is Counter Intelligence or some Disinfo-agent of some sort his comment about Mike being "Authentic" research is suspicious..Clyde and Mike were probably paid to destroy the Forum while promoting their pseudo-scholarship at the same time..

All he is really doing is just spamming threads. And it gets annoying. But worse Euronuts use him as proxy to use not only against this forum but "Afrocentrics" who are "moderate" like us for example.


People like him is the reason the term "Afrocentric" has been poisoned.

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if a load of white criminals got shot no white people would protest, but blacks protest when black murderers and sex offenders are shot. go figure.
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Honestly I think Cass has a love/hate relationship with Egyptsearch. He's like the Joker and We're Batman, he comes here to create chaos even knowing he cant win because deep down he has a love for this place despite outwardly despising the forum, its fun to him maybe, I mean he probably never had a challenge until he came here and despite losing he still likes it here. TBH most Trolls end up like him, you guys remember the Turkish Egyptian Troll Abaza(I cringe at saying his name) probably ES most dedicatated Troll but I remember once he admitted to a Sudanese poster(AswaniAswad) who could understand Arabic that the black Egyptians were the "Innocent Doves" of Ancient Egypt...Egyptsearch be having these trolls feeling some type of way..lol

quote:
Originally posted by Nodnarb:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Well the guy does suffer from mental illness, which is why it's beyond me why you or anybody else takes him seriously. For real though, I have sympathy for his plight but I am not going to actually treat him the way I would a fully mentally competent person.

I'm on the autism spectrum like he supposedly is, and I don't feel bad for him at all. Autism can't account for all his pathological dishonesty, trolling, impersonation of others, stalking, racism, and generally awful behavior. He's got to be comorbid with something else even worse than autism, if it's something that can be diagnosed with the DSM-IV at all.

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quote:
Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus:
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
I like how Clyde keeps trying to convince people that his pseudo-scholarship is taken serious in real academic sources...lol, Stop Clyde Beyoku is an intelligent person she's not buying you're revisionist crap....I think Beyoku is onto something though I think Clyde is Counter Intelligence or some Disinfo-agent of some sort his comment about Mike being "Authentic" research is suspicious..Clyde and Mike were probably paid to destroy the Forum while promoting their pseudo-scholarship at the same time..

All he is really doing is just spamming threads. And it gets annoying. But worse Euronuts use him as proxy to use not only against this forum but "Afrocentrics" who are "moderate" like us for example.


People like him is the reason the term "Afrocentric" has been poisoned.

I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH YOU. This is like how there are two factions in white ethno-nationalism(s). I've always clashed with the neo-nazis and holocaust deniers etc. I can raise good arguments why we don't want immigrants in our countries, then the neo-Nazi skinhead types start talking about Jews, heil hitler and other nonsense. It completely destroys our message and demonises our cause.
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Yep, and Im 100% when I say him and Mike are Dis-Info agents sent to destroy this forum, Well Clyde might be authentic to some extent but Mike is a complete fraud. Me, Lioness, Altakruri and others have critiqued his lies, distorted and mislabled Images, and theories...I.E Many times HE KNOWS he has a mislabeled Image and He NEVER corrects his mistakes...I repeat he knows he's wrong and continues to lie and distort. Funny part is many of the Images he lables or uses were originally posted here by sane serious minded posters...I mean what better way to discredit E.S than to use our info and images and purposely mislabel them and distort them to push a racist garbage theory that most people find laughably insane....
So for Clyde to call Mike or anything associated with Mike Authentic is suspect as hell. He's been Spamming E/S for years now we know why.

quote:
Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus:
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
I like how Clyde keeps trying to convince people that his pseudo-scholarship is taken serious in real academic sources...lol, Stop Clyde Beyoku is an intelligent person she's not buying you're revisionist crap....I think Beyoku is onto something though I think Clyde is Counter Intelligence or some Disinfo-agent of some sort his comment about Mike being "Authentic" research is suspicious..Clyde and Mike were probably paid to destroy the Forum while promoting their pseudo-scholarship at the same time..

All he is really doing is just spamming threads. And it gets annoying. But worse Euronuts use him as proxy to use not only against this forum but "Afrocentrics" who are "moderate" like us for example.


People like him is the reason the term "Afrocentric" has been poisoned.


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quote:
Originally posted by Nodnarb:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Well the guy does suffer from mental illness, which is why it's beyond me why you or anybody else takes him seriously. For real though, I have sympathy for his plight but I am not going to actually treat him the way I would a fully mentally competent person.

I'm on the autism spectrum like he supposedly is, and I don't feel bad for him at all. Autism can't account for all his pathological dishonesty, trolling, impersonation of others, stalking, racism, and generally awful behavior. He's got to be comorbid with something else even worse than autism, if it's something that can be diagnosed with the DSM-IV at all.
I am on lots of medications, I don't want to go into it.

Have you learnt anything from me, yes or no? I'm talking bio anthropology or the debates we were having on ancient Egypt. I've pointed out I've learnt things here even from my opponents. Many of them. The exception excluding obviously Mike/Clyde - is Carlos Coke. That guy gets the DUNCE of the forum award. This thread went for quite a few pages. I learnt some more things. I will be going off again.

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quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Pliny the Elder asserted that Aethiops derived from the name of Hephaestu's son -Aethiops. The meaning seems to have morphed when the Greeks encountered the Aethiopians; the Aethiopians essentially re-defined the word merely by existing.

Aethiopia then became to be used as a metonym for the darkest shade of black, and its usage makes it abundantly clear that it was reserved for a specific people , a specific nation -- one with a capital - Meroe. Lower "Nubians", the Nubae (south of Meroe), Blemmyes (North of Meroe), Megabari (eastern desert, North of Meroe) and the Troglodytes were not"Aethiopians", so this notion that "Aethiopia" was the Greek word for black is ludicrous. The Blemmyes (Beja) and the Megabari were recognised as ethnically distinct from the Aethiopians; they were however under the dominion of Aethiopia, and it is only in this sense that they were ever referred to as such -- similar to the usage of Roman.

quote:
"The lower parts of the country on either side of Meroę, along the Nile towards the Red Sea, are inhabited by Megabari and Blemmyes, who are subject to the Aethiopians and border on the Aegyptians, and, along the sea, by Troglodytes (the Troglodytes opposite Meroę are a ten or twelve days' journey distant from the Nile), but the parts on the left side of the course of the Nile, in Libya, are inhabited by Nubae, a large tribe, who, beginning at Meroę, extend as far as the bends of the river, and are not subject to the Aethiopians but are divided into several separate kingdoms. The extent of Aegypt along the sea from the Pelusiac to the Canobic mouth is one thousand three hundred stadia. This, then, is what Eratosthenes says. http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Strabo/17A1*.html


The ancient Greeks noted that the Aethiopians had people from among them that represented the extreme of blackness the same way they noted that the blonde, blue eyed Scythians represented the extreme of whiteness.

I've finished here, but I took this into account; I plan on writing a paper on Aethiopia. what interests me is its original geography and this was well outside of Africa. All the original greek locations of mythological sites were localised in/around Greece, they shifted when the Greeks expanded their geographical horizon. My own theory is that the original Aethiopia was Paeonia/Macedonia.
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Djehuti
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LOL [Big Grin] Funny, how this thread quickly turned to the topic of the troll himself.
quote:
Originally posted by Nodnarb:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Well the guy does suffer from mental illness, which is why it's beyond me why you or anybody else takes him seriously. For real though, I have sympathy for his plight but I am not going to actually treat him the way I would a fully mentally competent person.

I'm on the autism spectrum like he supposedly is, and I don't feel bad for him at all. Autism can't account for all his pathological dishonesty, trolling, impersonation of others, stalking, racism, and generally awful behavior. He's got to be comorbid with something else even worse than autism, if it's something that can be diagnosed with the DSM-IV at all.
So the guy is autistic?? Autism in and of itself depending on where in the spectrum it is, is not necessarily an illness. Judging by this guy's behavior he suffers from OCD as well as several other related neuroses which explains his racism. I find many internet trolls to suffer from neuroses when they actively troll intelligent threads and actually feel joy in doing it as he admitted in the last page. The guy is a nutcase.
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Djehuti
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Speaking of trolls in general...
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:

I like how Clyde keeps trying to convince people that his pseudo-scholarship is taken serious in real academic sources...lol, Stop Clyde Beyoku is an intelligent person she's not buying you're revisionist crap....I think Beyoku is onto something though I think Clyde is Counter Intelligence or some Disinfo-agent of some sort his comment about Mike being "Authentic" research is suspicious..Clyde and Mike were probably paid to destroy the Forum while promoting their pseudo-scholarship at the same time..

Either Clyde and Mike and possibly xyzman are either paid agents of the Euronuts OR they suffer from the same Afrocentric delusions of past grandeur. Even if they are the latter, they are actively being used by the Euronuts to poison the well and convince others that all scholarship on African history showing a significant or grand past is pseudo. Seriously Clyde is a laughing stock in academia. I've lurked in Egyptology and history fora where I've heard Egyptologists and other experts bring up Clyde Winters as a joke. Of course in Clyde's mind they are all "white racists".
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Doug M
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African Americans are not in control of any institutions or organizations that have power to oppress and deny any other group of people any access to any rights, privileges, wealth or resources because of their ethnic background, skin color or "racial" group. Therefore, they cannot be racist. Racism is primarily a systematic process by which one group of people use their power and control over the aforementioned elements within society to affirm and uphold their position on top of the social and economic order. This is most prominent in the global network of European colonial satellite entities created since the 1500s in the Americas, Africa, Asia and the Pacific. To sit here and compare 500 years of global white supremacy and white nationalism based on the open and deliberate act of destroying black people and other nationalities NOT of European descent to some black guy online calling white folks "cracka" is the most inane nonsensical and nonhistorial revisionism ever. If white people were just name calling and actually didn't have a 500 year or more history of actual death and destruction toward non white people that would be one thing, but they don't. Actual racism is not benign and not "good" for the planet, but that is what white people believe is their religion and place in the world. In their eyes what they are doing is a favor to the planet.

quote:

THE
EXPANSION OF THE WHITE RACES
Address at the celebration of the African Diamond Jubilee of the Methodist Episcopal Church in Washington, D.C. January 18, 1909

There is one feature in the expansion of the peoples of white, or European, blood during the
past four centuries which should never be lost sight of, especially by those who denounce such
expansion on moral grounds. On the whole, the movement has been fraught with lasting benefit to most of the peoples already dwelling in the lands over which the expansion took place. Of course any such general statement as this must be understood with the necessary reservations. Human nature being what it is, no movement lasting for four centuries and extending in one shape or another over the major part of the world could go on without cruel injustices being done at ce
rtain places and in certain times. Occasionally, although not very frequently, a mild and kindly race has been treated with wanton, brutal, and ruthless inhumanity by the white intruders.

Moreover, mere savages, whose type of life was so primitive as to be absolutely incompatible with the existence of civilization, inevitably died out from the regions across which their sparse bands occasionally flitted, when these regions became filled with a dense population; they died out when they were kindly treated as quickly as when they were badly treated, for the simple reason that they were so little advanced that the conditions of life necessary to their existence were incompatible with any form of higher and better existence. It is also true that, even where
great good has been done to the already existing inhabitants, where they have thriven under
the new rule, it has sometimes brought with it discontent from the very fact that it has brought
with it a certain amount of well being and a certain amount of knowledge, so that people have
learned enough to feel discontented and have prospered enough to be able to show their
discontent. Such ingratitude is natural, and must be reckoned with as such; but it is also both
unwarranted and foolish, and the fact of its exist
ence in any given case does not justify any
change of attitude on our part.

http://www.theodore-roosevelt.com/images/research/speeches/trwhiteraces.pdf

Teddy Roosevelt is a prime example of the white nationalism and racism of most white Europeans during the last 500 years around the world. They had absolutely no problem justifying their raping and carnage on the grounds of white inherent genetic "superiority". That belief is the basis for having to alter the history of the planet because in their religion of white supremacy, god made them to be supreme on the earth, but the problem becomes why they were the last historically to develop civilization if that is the case? So rather than have to explain why black people or people of black descent are the first to have created civilization and settle the planet as a result of "gods will" they simply lie. Or even worse they claim that those early folks weren't "true" humans and Europeans are the real humans...... Either way all of it is a lie and propaganda.

There is no "nice" way of putting that. And there is no comparing what they have done to what black people have NOT done EVER in their history. Yet this is the absurd lengths these people will go to to uphold and maintain the dignity of their lies. Telling the truth about history, including the TRUTH about the last 500 years of white racism is not HATING white people, it is telling the facts. But as shown by the words of Roosevelt, they want to be given a halo and angels wings for doing the dirt they have done over the last 500 years and some kind of humanitarian cookie, as if they are doing such a "good service" for the planet.

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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by Nodnarb:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Well the guy does suffer from mental illness, which is why it's beyond me why you or anybody else takes him seriously. For real though, I have sympathy for his plight but I am not going to actually treat him the way I would a fully mentally competent person.

I'm on the autism spectrum like he supposedly is, and I don't feel bad for him at all. Autism can't account for all his pathological dishonesty, trolling, impersonation of others, stalking, racism, and generally awful behavior. He's got to be comorbid with something else even worse than autism, if it's something that can be diagnosed with the DSM-IV at all.
You have no idea. Privately he tried to get me to lie about people I did not like and I told him I'm not into foul things like that. Now he's calling me a snake even though he's still lying about things he admitted to me weren't true. I also never said I never talked with him about that guy he keeps bringing up. The point is, the conversation evolved into that since we were already talking and the clashes with the person he's talking about happened WHILE we were already talking. So, of course the conversation is going to evolve into something else. But that doesn't mean I initially contacted him for that. You can see this in the fact that the things that supposedly made me "run" to him for help happened in 2015 and 2016, not 2014 (the year in which he published his paper IIRC and in which I contacted him because I wanted to publish my own paper). So how can I contact and try to recruit Cass in 2014 over a beef that escalated in 2015 and 2016? This dude is legitimately crazy and the events that transpired are all jumbled up in his crazy head.
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quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[QB] The DNA of North American Indians is of African origin. As a result they carry African haplogroups


The mtDNA haplogroup A common to Mexicans is also found among the Mande speaking people and
some East Africans (28-29). Haplogroup A found among Mixe and Mixtecs (28).The Mande speakers
carry mtDNA haplogroup A, which is common among Mexicans (30). In addition to the Mande
speaking people of West Africa, Southeast Africa Africans also carry mtDNA haplogroup A (29).


Please list the ORIGINAL sources that have these Africans carrying these lineages?
Mande Speakers, South East Africans, "some" East Africans. What is the ORIGINAL source.

We are waiting Clyde. Please show thoswe ORIGINAL Sources. I dont need a full bibliography. Just the links that contain those samples.
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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
[T]he things that supposedly made me "run" to him for help happened in 2015 and 2016, not 2014 (the year in which he published his paper IIRC and in which I contacted him because I wanted to publish my own paper). So how can I contact and try to recruit Cass in 2014 over a beef that escalated in 2015 and 2016? This dude is legitimately crazy and the events that transpired are all jumbled up in his crazy head. [/QB]

For the record:

The date when I first announced an early draft of my paper online is 22/08/14:

 -

The date when I contacted Cass for details re: his feedback, and his paper on the same topic is 30/08/14. I sent a him the same draft seen in the screenshot that he claims never took place. Even though he was commenting on it and making suggestions.

All the things he claims supposedly motivated my actions to contact him (i.e. the things that supposedly made me want to "recruit" him, or run to him for help), happened years later.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[QB] The DNA of North American Indians is of African origin. As a result they carry African haplogroups


The mtDNA haplogroup A common to Mexicans is also found among the Mande speaking people and
some East Africans (28-29). Haplogroup A found among Mixe and Mixtecs (28).The Mande speakers
carry mtDNA haplogroup A, which is common among Mexicans (30). In addition to the Mande
speaking people of West Africa, Southeast Africa Africans also carry mtDNA haplogroup A (29).


Please list the ORIGINAL sources that have these Africans carrying these lineages?
Mande Speakers, South East Africans, "some" East Africans. What is the ORIGINAL source.

We are waiting Clyde. Please show thoswe ORIGINAL Sources. I dont need a full bibliography. Just the links that contain those samples.
^^ the references are numbered
quite above from Clydes paper:

https://www.webmedcentral.com/article_view/4856

Winters C.
Inference of Ancient Black Mexican Tribes and DNA.

WebmedCentral GENETICS 2015;6(3):WMC004856
doi: 10.9754/journal.wmc.2015.004856

_______

28. Bonilla C, Gutierrez G, Parra E J, Kline C, Shriver M D. (2005). Admixture of a rural population of the State of Guerrero,Mexico, Am J Phys Anthropol. Dec;128(4):861-9.

29. Salas A, Richards M, De la Fe T, Lareu M V, Sobrino B, Sanchez-Diz P, Macaulay V, Carracedo A. (2002). The making of the West African mtDNA Landscape, Am J. Hum. Genet, 71:1082-1111.

30. Jackson B A, Wilson J L, Kirbah S, Sidney S S, Bassie L, Alle J A D, McLean D C Garvey W T.(2005). Am J Phys Anth. 128:156-163.

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its years ago. I cannot remember. Also note the email I used was never my real one and I closed it in 2015. I have no access to your emails now, also you store emails from years ago when I delete mine every couple of weeks.

I've never published a paper on Egypt. That thing on Saharans was just an essay I wrote a mix of lecture notes since I sat in some other history classes that covered ANE/Egypt (also the Old Testament). Not peer-reviewed or anything; I had it on academia.edu for a fairly short while. I suggest you google "call for papers 2017" followed by "Egypt", "ancient Egypt", "Egyptian history", "Egyptian archaeology" etc. You will get academic journals asking for papers and you can submit one. And the "call for papers" usually means they are less strict on who can submit, for example you wouldn't even need a degree.

An example that just passed its deadline-

http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/schools/historycultures/research/news/2017/cfp-tea-with-the-sphinx.aspx

quote:
The editors seek essays addressing engagements with the culture of ancient Egypt from the late eighteenth century to the present day

•Factual or fictional literature
•Travel writing and illustration
•Memoir
•Journalism
•Art
•Photography
•Architecture and landscapes
•Theatre
•Material culture
•Popular culture, film, TV, music, fashion
•Representations of Egyptology
•Gender
•Race
•Religion, spiritualism and occultism
•Orientalism

That would have been ideal for someone to write a paper on the dynastic race theory of the 19th century , since they note race is an acceptable topic for paper abstract submissions.

I choose not to go for this stuff as Egypt doesn't interest me. I don't mind discussing it on a forum, but my research interests are things like Atlantis, Greek mythology etc. Those are subjects I have published articles on in academic journals (not Clyde's scam Indian journals though). And I'm not further educated than a BA. You don't need even need a qualification like I said. Hope this helps.

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quote:
Originally posted by Doug M:
African Americans are not in control of any institutions or organizations that have power to oppress and deny any other group of people any access to any rights, privileges, wealth or resources because of their ethnic background, skin color or "racial" group.

So racism is not just a philosophy like Satanism, you have to have successful organized domination for it to be racism
A Japanese or Mexican person could not be racist against African Americans because they are not dominating them

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Doug M:
African Americans are not in control of any institutions or organizations that have power to oppress and deny any other group of people any access to any rights, privileges, wealth or resources because of their ethnic background, skin color or "racial" group.

So racism is not just a philosophy like Satanism, you have to have successful organized domination for it to be racism
A Japanese or Mexican person could not be racist against African Americans because they are not dominating them

Good comment. This is where swenet also slips up.

And if we want to play games about who "is most racist", just look up how pygmies are hunted and even eaten. It aint white folks doing this to them...

Reports of genocide

The BBC in 2004 reported that


In 2003, Sinafasi Makelo, a representative of Mbuti pygmies, told the UN's Indigenous People's Forum that during the Congo Civil War, his people were hunted down and eaten as though they were game animals. In neighbouring North Kivu province there has been cannibalism by a group known as Les Effaceurs ("the erasers") who wanted to clear the land of people to open it up for mineral exploitation.[23] Both sides of the war regarded them as "subhuman" and some say their flesh can confer magical powers.[24] Makelo asked the UN Security Council to recognise cannibalism as a crime against humanity and an act of genocide.[25]

According to Minority Rights Group International there is extensive evidence of mass killings, cannibalism and rape of Pygmies and they have urged the International Criminal Court to investigate a campaign of extermination against pygmies. Although they have been targeted by virtually all the armed groups, much of the violence against Pygmies is attributed to the rebel group, the Movement for the Liberation of Congo, which is part of the transitional government and still controls much of the north, and their allies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmy_peoples#Reports_of_genocide

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Wow. So, if you have no records of a conversation someone can just wake up one day and present a completely distorted picture and get away with it. But when you do have records they just brush their epic misrepresentation off with "I can't remember"—and still try to attack you for having records that vindicate your version of events. I'm done with this thread. This crazy sh!t is too much.
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Make no mistake Cass I'll definitely be getting in touch with the other admins at rationalwiki to get you removed from your post asap.

--------------------
 -

Meet on the Level, act upon the Plumb, part on the Square.

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We're waiting Clyde...whats taking such an accomplished and legit academic such as yourself so long??

quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
quote:
Originally posted by beyoku:
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[QB] The DNA of North American Indians is of African origin. As a result they carry African haplogroups


The mtDNA haplogroup A common to Mexicans is also found among the Mande speaking people and
some East Africans (28-29). Haplogroup A found among Mixe and Mixtecs (28).The Mande speakers
carry mtDNA haplogroup A, which is common among Mexicans (30). In addition to the Mande
speaking people of West Africa, Southeast Africa Africans also carry mtDNA haplogroup A (29).


Please list the ORIGINAL sources that have these Africans carrying these lineages?
Mande Speakers, South East Africans, "some" East Africans. What is the ORIGINAL source.

We are waiting Clyde. Please show thoswe ORIGINAL Sources. I dont need a full bibliography. Just the links that contain those samples.

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I have presented the genomic evidence of the relationship between African and mongoloid Native Americans.


If I am wrong, why don't you present evidence that my findings are incorrect. Show the evidence that the genetic data I presented does not exist.

Until you do this you, and everyone else who fails to dispute the genetic evidence, are talking out of your Arse!

The DNA of North American Indians is of African origin. As a result they carry African haplogroups


Craniometric and skeletal evidence indicates that Paleoamericans were related to the Australian, Polynesian or Sub-Saharan type. This is evident in this chart below.

 -


Neves has proven that the Paleoamericans were Black or Negroid, that's why the Amerinds or mongoloid Native Americans are grouped with the Eskimos and other Asian groups.

Even though, Mongoloid Native Americans are not related to the Paleoamericans, who were Black,they do carry Africans genes.

Novembre et al (2016) argue that Kennewick man is related more to modern Native Americans, instead of the PaleoAmericans.


Eurocentrist lie about the relationship of Naia and Kennewick man to mongoloid or contemporary Native Americans. For example, Novembre et al (2015) conclude that Kennewick man is closely related to the South American Karitiana people.

The finding by Novembre et al (2015) that genetically Kennewick man related mostly to the Karitiana falsifies their population. It is falsified because Skoglund et al (2015) found that the Karitiana and other Amozonian people in South America have an Australasian heritage. The identification of a relationship between Kennewick man and the Karitiana would continue to situate this Native American in the Paleoamerican group who was Black--not contemporary Native Americans.

The Amerindian haplogroups (hg) are descendant from the L3(M,N, & X) macrohaplogroup): ABCDN
and X. The L3 (M,N,X) marcogroup converge at np 16223.

The mtDNA haplogroups ABC and X are subclades of haplogroup N. In Table 1, we see the
distribution of haplogroup N, in the Americas.


 -

The phylogeography of haplogroup C suggest that this American founder haplogroup differentiated in
Siberia-Asia (24). The situation is not so clear for haplogrop B2, but A2 and D1 probably differentiated after the mongoloid Native American lineages diverged after crossing the Beringa Straits (24)
[ b]
Haplogroup A2 has the motif 16111T,16223c, 16290T, 16319A and 16223C (25). Haplogroup A is
rare in Siberia (26). Interestingly, haplogroup A absent in western North America is common in parts of Central America and Northern America where the Spanish reported the existence of Black Native
American communities(1-2).[/b]

In a recent study of post-Classic Mexicans at Tlatilco , dating between 10-13 centuries the subjects carried the founder haplogroups A (36%), B (13%), C (4.3%) and D (17.4%) (27). We should note, that in Yucatec, the Mayans were predominately haplogroup A, the Maya in Hondurus, a stronghold of the Black Native Americans belonged to haplogroup C.

The mtDNA haplogroup A common to Mexicans is also found among the Mande speaking people and
some East Africans (28-29). Haplogroup A found among Mixe and Mixtecs (28).The Mande speakers
carry mtDNA haplogroup A, which is common among Mexicans (30). In addition to the Mande
speaking people of West Africa, Southeast Africa Africans also carry mtDNA haplogroup A (29).
The major American Indian male lineages include R1, C,D and Q3.There is evidence of African
admixture in the American y-chromosome haplogroups. The Q y-haplogroup has the highest
frequency among indigenous Mexicans. The frequency hg Q varies from a high of 54% for Q-M243,
and a low of 46% for QM (34).

African y-chromosome are associated with YAP+ and 9bp. The YAP-ŕ associated with A-ŕG transition
at DYS271 is found among Native Americans. The YAP+ individuals include Mixe speakers (32-33).
YAP+ is often present in haplogroups (hg) C and D.
The DYS271 transition is of African origin (32).The DSY271 Alu insertion is found only in
chromosomes bearing Alu insertion (YAP+) at locus DYS287 (33). The DYS271 transition was found
among the Wayuu, Zenu and Inzano. The Mexican Native American y-chromosome bearing the
African markers is resident in haplogroups C and D (34).

R-M173 is also found in Mexico. Haplogroups R and Q are part of the CT microgroup which dates
back 56kya. Haplogroup R branches from hg Q, with the SNP M242.

The CT haplogroup has SNP mutation M168, along with P and M294. Haplogroup P (M45) has two
branches Q (M242) and R-M207 which share the common marker M45.

The M45 chromosome is subdivided by the biallelic variant M173 (35). In Africa we find P (M173),
R1b (M343) and V88; and R1b1a2 (M269).

Native Americans carry a high frequency of R-M173 (48). The predominate y-chromosome in North
America is R-M173. R-M173 is found only in the Northeastern United States along with mtDNA
haplogroup X (25%). Both haplogroups are found in Africa, but is absent in Siberia.

 -

.
There are varying frequencies of y-chromosome M-173 in Africa and Eurasia. Whereas only between
8% and 10% of M-173 is carried by Eurasians, 82% of the carriers of this y-chromosome are found in
Africa.

This is very interesting given the presence on R-M173 is found among many American Indian groups
(48). R-M173 among the North American Algonquian group range from Ojibwe (79%), Chipewyan
(62%), Seminole (50%), Cherokee (47%), Dogrib (40%) and Papago (38%) . These Indian groups
have a long association with Africans and many live in areas were Europeans found Black Native
Americans.

In most studies of North American Indians, any evidence of African haplogroups are excluded from
all analyses (47). Exclusion of evidence of non-Amerindian admixture and non-foundational
Amerindian haplogroups is regularly left out of publications on Native American DNA (49).

The R haplogroup is carried by Mexicans. The frequency of hg R varies from Tarahumara (5.6%),
Otomi (14.3%), Yucateca Maya (10.5%). There is also a high frequency of haplogroup R among the
Ch'ol and Chontal which stood around 15% (38). The Ch'ol and Chontal also carry E1b1b (38). The
Spanish identified the Otomi as a Black Native American tribe(11).

African ancestry has been found among indigenous groups that have had no historical contact with
African slaves and thus support an African presence in America, already indicated by African
skeletons among the Olmec and Mayan people. Lisker et al, noted that "The variation of Indian
ancestry among the studied Indians shows in general a higher proportion in the more isolated groups, except for the Cora, who are as isolated as the Huichol and have not only a lower frequency but also a certain degree of black admixture. The black admixture is difficult to explain because the Cora reside in a mountainous region away from the west coast" (22).

A recent study of African - Mexican admixture yielded a frequency range between 22-41% (25). In
one study the researcher found that 3% of Native Americans showed African haplogroups (25).
Underhill et al , noted that:" One Mayan male, previously [has been] shown to have an African Y
chromosome" (31). This is very interesting because the Maya language illustrates a Mande
substratum, in addition to African genetic markers (3) Plus the Chontal were identified as a Black
Native American tribe (11).

The African haplogroups among indigenous Mexicans include L0a1a'3, L2a1, L3b, L3d, and U6a (25).
Interestingly, an individual at Laguna de los Condores, Peru dating between AD 1000-1500 carried L3 (36). Green et al also found Indians with African genes in North Central Mexico, including the L1 and L2 clusters (25).

An important indicator of African admixture is 9bp (22,27). Haplogroup B is defined by 9bp (27) and is linked to haplogroup A.

The 9bp marker is reported among the North Mexicans. It is common among the Mixtec (27).
Some indigenous Mexicans show the G6PD deficiency. In a study of Yucatecos, Tzellzal-Tzoltzil,
Mixteca and Mestizo it was found that people on the Oaxaca coast suffered from G6PD deficiency
(22). Lisker also found G6PD deficiency in Costa Chica (22). The G6PD deficiency is usually carried
by SSA.

Indigenous Indians at Tlaxcala contains 8% African genes, but historically no Africans lived in the area (37). Researchers have also found L1, L2 & L3 clusters among many Mexicans including the Cora,
Mixtec and Zapotecs (39-41)

It is interesting to note that the proportion of African haplotypes roughly equivalent to the proportion of European haplotypes [among North Central Mexican Indians] cannot be explained by recent admixture of African Americans for the United States (41). This is especially the case for the Ojinaga area, which presently is, and historically has been largely isolated from U.S. African Americans. In the Ojinaga sample set, the frequency of African haplotypes was higher than that of European hyplotypes"(41).

Human Leukocyte Antigens (HLA) polymorphism is used to investigate ethnic relationships and
origins. Africans and Indigenous Mexicans share HLA alleles. In Table 2 we outline the
relationship. Gutherie in a study of the HLAs in indigenous American populations, found that the V
antigen of the Rhesus system, considered to be an indication of African ancestry, among Indians in
Belize and Mexico centers of Mayan civilization (45). Dr. Gutherie also noted that A*28 common
among Africans has high frequencies among Eastern Maya (45).

 -

In addition to A*28 , there is a high frequency of HLA B*35 among Mexicans and SSA (46). The
frequency of HLA B*35 among indigenous Mexicans and SSA is high ranging between 22-31%
among SSA populations and 30-45% among MA groups (46). It is interesting to note that the Otomi, a
Mexican group identified as being of African origin and six Mayan groups show the B Allele of the ABO system that is considered to be of African origin.

It is time that researchers stop claiming the first Native Americans were not Negroes.


Reference:
  • Skoglund et al (2015), Genetic evidence for two founding populations of the Americas , NATURE ,525 ( 3 SEPTEMBER):104-108. Retrieved 5/1/2016 at : http://www.nature.com/articles/nature14895.epdf?referrer_access_token=4TuRenNBfBRS7tHNMAY1qdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0N6yB-nEyCdRoL51ykMO5E9z_7mdrRF_UTJvxtpDQnayOfwuJnrOCxIhdm8_7djDnDo9O bq-VbpDatHfBozg8WnuFcDDHGC6D1QQbbgmyediLKefzmJLdqOP9IYieqkoaey_M8XA-n4Ua9CD3IbOslIqWUnXzIWbLwafl9bJMOQNAJlELt6cfooH162H7W_3B8%3D&tracking_referrer=mobile.nytimes.com

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    42. Winters,C. (2011a). Comment: Genetic Evidence of Early Migrations into America.  Retrived 2/18/2015:http://www.plosone.org/annotation/listThread.action?root=18395
    43. Arnaiz-Villena A, Vargas-Alarcón G, Areces C, Enríquez-de-Salamanca M, Abd-El-Fatah-Khalil S, Fernández-Honrado M, Marco J, Martín-Villa JM, Rey D.(2014). Mixtec Mexican Amerindians: an HLA alleles study for America peopling, pharmacogenomics and transplantation. Immun  Invest 43(8):738-55.
    44. Allsopp, C.E.,R M Harding, C Taylor, M Bunce, D Kwiatkowski, N Anstey, D Brewster, A J McMichael, B M Greenwood, A V Hill.(1992). Interethnic genetic differentiation in Africa: HLA class I antigens in The Gambia. Am J  Hum Genet, 50(2): 411-421.
    45. Guthrie,J.L. (2006). Human lymphocyte antigens:Apparent Afro-Asiatic, southern Asian and European HLAs in indigenous American populations. Retrieved 3/3/2006 at: http://www.neara.org/Guthrie/lymphocyteantigens02.htm
    46. Winters,C. (2014) HLA-B*35 in Mexican Amerindians and African Populations. Forthcoming:  Indian J Fund and Applied Life Scien.
    47. Bolnick DA, Smith DG (2003) Unexpected patterns of mitochondrial DNA variation among Native Americans from the sou°theastern United States. Am J Phys Anth  122(4): 336-54. doi: 10.1002/ajpa.10284
    48. Winters,C.  (2011). Is Native American R Y-Chromosome of African Origin?.  Cur Res J Bio Scien, 3(6): 555-558. Retrieved 3/16/2015 at : http://www.academia.edu/1898582/Is_Native_American_R_Y-Chromosome_of_African_Origin
    49. , Ripan Malhi et al. (2006) Mitochondrial haplogroup M discovered in prehistoric North Am J Arch Scien 34 (2007),http://public.wsu.edu/~bmkemp/publications/pubs/Malhi_et_al_2007.pdf
    50. Moreno-Estrada A, Gravel S, Zakharia F, McCauley JL, Byrnes JK, et al. (2013) Reconstructing the Population Genetic History of the Caribbean. PLoS Genet 9(11): e1003925. doi:10.1371/journal.pgen.1003925.  http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1003925
    51. Rafinesques, C.(1832). Primitive Black Nations of America.  Atlantic Journal,1(3):.85-86. https://books.google.com/books?id=BWo3AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA85&dq=Primitive+Black+Nations+of+America +by+Professor+Constantine+Rafinesques&hl=en&sa=X&ei=VVsIVZbBFcONyASP6oC4AQ&ved=0CC4Q 6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Primitive%20Black%20Nations%20of%20America%20by%20Professor%20Constantine%20R afinesques&f=false
.
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sudanese
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Stop this terrible nonsense, please. You can't be sincere with your campaign of delirious pseudo-science. Do you realise the kind of damage you are inflicting? You're wholly oblivious to the fact that you are precisely what you purport to oppose -> a racial supremacist.

By claiming the ancient Greeks, Romans, Chinese, Aztects, Olmecs and even Vikings... you are essentially saying that all non-blacks have never created civilizations of their own and that they are all involved in some eleborate conspiracy to claim all the aforementioned civilizations.

Stick to Africa.

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Clyde Winters
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Much about what researchers claim is the continuity between the Anzick child , Kennewick man and modern mogoloid Native Americans is mumble jumble. As a result, researchers make contradictory and confusing statements about this relationship.

For example, researchers like Neves, have proven that the contemporary mongoloid Native Americans and Paleoamerican Native Americans are dissimilar researchers try to claim that both groups are the same while, admitting they are not.

Morten Rasmussen, (23 July 2015). The ancestry and affiliations of Kennewick Man, Nature , 523 (455–458) http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v523/n7561/full/nature14625.html#supplementary-information noted that:
quote:

Our results are in agreement with a basal divergence of Northern and Central/Southern Native American lineages as suggested from the analysis of the Anzick-1 genome12. However, the genetic affinities of Kennewick Man reveal additional complexity in the population history of the Northern lineage. The finding that Kennewick is more closely related to Southern than many Northern Native Americans (Extended Data Fig. 4) suggests the presence of an additional Northern lineage that diverged from the common ancestral population of Anzick-1 and Southern Native Americans (Fig. 3). This branch would include both Colville and other tribes of the Pacific Northwest such as the Stswecem’c, who also appear symmetric to Kennewick with Southern Native Americans (Extended Data Fig. 4).


Thusly, Kennewick man is not related to contemporary mongoloid Native Americans. Yet, to maintain the myth of Black Paleoamericans and mongoloid Native Americans belonging to the same populations Rasmussen speculates that:
quote:


Although the test rejects the null hypothesis of direct ancestry with no subsequent gene flow in all cases, it only does so very weakly for the Colville tribe members (Table 1 and Supplementary Information 8). These findings can be explained as: (1) the Colville individuals are direct descendants of the population to which Kennewick Man belonged, but subsequently received some relatively minor gene flow from other American populations within the last ~8,500 years, in agreement with our findings above; (2) the Colville individuals descend from a population that ~8,500 years was slightly diverged from the population which Kennewick Man belonged or (3) a combination of both.


Each of these three speculations can not be supported by the evidence and in reality there is no evidence of direct ancestry of mongoloid Native Americans from the Black paleoamericans.

The SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION, http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v523/n7561/extref/nature14625-s1.pdf relating to Rasmussen (2015) explains away the evidence of African admixture among Kennewick man and the Karitiana due to contamination. They wrote that:
quote:

Note that without adding contamination the Karitiana sample appears to have 0.02% contamination from an African source.

In addition they noted that although Kennewick man allegedly carries y-Chromosome Q3, there was
quote:

…. low-coverage Kennewick Man data, we excluded sites were the observed allele corresponded to a damage allele at C→T and G→A SNPs. We again observe only a negligible effect of the lower coverage (Figure S5b) on the estimated cluster proportions.b][ We note that both low coverage individuals share a small proportion of an ancestry cluster related to African populations, [/b]which is absent in the high coverage Anzick-1 results. This is likely due to lower quality of the low coverage genotypes, which preferentially contribute ancestry to the most diverged ancestral component.

The Kennewick man is 8000k plus years old and the Karitiana are in South America. The Academe claims there were no pre=Columbians Blacks in America—so how did these samples acquire African ancestry? The most obvious answer is that Africans were in the Americas in Paleoamerican and recent times.
There is continuity between the DNA carried by Paleoamericans and West Africans. Paleoamericans, like the Anzick child carried haplogroup D, which is the same as African M1, and R-M173. Both of these haplogroups are carried by West Africans.

 -
There is no continuity between the Anzick man and contemporary mongoloid Native Americans. In A genomic view of the peopling of the Americas, by Pontus Skoglund, and David Reich: http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reichlab/Reich_Lab/Welcome_files/SkoglundReich2016_Americas.pdf
the researchers noted that " The most surprising finding was that the Anzick individual is from a population more closely related to Central Americans and South Americans than to some northern North Americans (including all speakers of Algonquian languages studied to date), despite the apparent common ancestral origin of Native Americans across the continents. "

Look at how researchers make confusing statements,. If the Anzick man is not related to contemporary "northern North Americans (including all speakers of Algonquian languages studied to date)", there is in reality no "apparent common ancestral origin of Native Americans across the continents " .

Haplogroup M was a common Paleoamerican haplogroup. Most contemporary Native Americans carry mtDNA that belongs to the M macrohaplogroup, name A and B.

Given the fact that the other ancient Eurasians and Paleoamericans carried haplogroup M, e.g., the 5000 year old skeletons carrying haplogroup M from China Lake, British Columbia (Malhi et al., 2007), more than likely Naia of Mexico was D1 and Anzick child was D4.

The Anzick child and Naia carried the D haplogroup , which is the name for M1, in Asia. Haplotypes with HVSI transitions defining 16129-16223-16249-16278-16311-16362; and 16129-16223-16234-16249-16211-16362 have been found in Thailand and among the Han Chinese (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002) and these were originally thought to be members of Haplogroup M1. However, on the basis of currently available FGS sequences, carriers of these markers have been found to be in the D4a branch of Haplogroup D , the most widespread branch of M1 in East Asia (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002). The transitions 16129,16189,16249 and 16311 are known to be recurrent in various branches of Haplogroup M, especially M1 and D4.

The presence of SSA in North America suggests an African origin for the presence of y-DNA R-M173 among Native Americans. This results from the high frequency of haplogroup R1, among African populations across the African Continent, and especially in West Africa (Gonzalez et al., 2012; Winters, 2010, 2011b).


The pristine form of R1*M173 is found only in Africa (Cruciani et al., 2002, 2010). The frequency of Ychromosome R1*-M173 in Africa range between 7-95% and averages 39.5% (Coia et al., 2005). The R*- M173 (haplotype 117) chromosome is found frequently in Africa, but rare to extremely low frequencies in Eurasia. The Eurasian R haplogroup is characterized by R1b3-M269. The M269 derived allele has a M207/M173 background.

Y-chromosome V88 (R1b1a) has its highest frequency among Chadic speakers, while the carriers of V88 among Niger-Congo speakers (predominately Bantu people) range between 2-66% (Cruciani et al., 2010; Bernielle-Lee et al., 2009). Haplogroup V88 includes the mutations M18, V35 and V7. Cruciani et al., (2010) revealed that R-V88 is also carried by Eurasians including the distinctive mutations M18, V35 and V7. R1b1-P25 is found in Western Eurasia.

Haplogroup R1b1* is found in Africa at various frequencies. In Table 3, we present the frequencies of R-M269 in Sub-Saharan Africa. Berniell-Lee et al., (2009) found in their study that 5.2% of SSA carried Rb1*. The frequency of R1b1* among the Bantu ranged from 2-20. The bearers of R1b1* among the Pygmy populations ranged from 1- 25% (Berniell-Lee et al., 2009). The frequency of R1b1 among Guinea-Bissau populations was 12% (Carvalho et al., 2010).
Henn et al., (2011) was surprised by this revelation of R-M269 among this Khoisan population. As a result, he interviewed the carries of R1b1b2a1a, and learned that no members of their families had relations with Europeans.

The presence of R lineages among hunter-gatherer (HG) populations is not new. Wood et al., reported Khoisan carriers of R-M269 (Wood et al., 2005). Bernielle-Lee et al., (2009), in their study of the Baka and Bakola pygmies found the the R1b1* haplogroup (Bernielle-Lee et al., 2009). These researchers made it clear that the Baka samples clustered closely to Khoisan samples (Bernielle-Lee et al., 2009). The most common R haplogroup in Africa is V88. Given the interaction between hunter-gatherer (HG) groups and agro-pastoral groups they live in close proximity too, we would assume that African HG would carry the V88 lineage.

Yet, as pointed out above the HG populations carry R-M269 instead of V88 (Winters, 2011b). The implications of R-M269 among HG populations, and Henn et al., (2011) of shared African HG genome suggest that R-M269 may represent a HG genome thus an ancient African R lineage. The presence of R-M269 among HG human groupings fails to support a back migration of R-M269 from Europe.

In a recent article on the R1 clade, Gonzalez et al., (2012), argue that R1 probably spread across Europe from Iberia to the east given the distribution of R1 in Africa.


The M haplogroup was first introduced to the Americas by the Khoisan who introduced the Clovis and Solutrean tool kits in the Americas. The Khoisan carries the most ancient mtDNA and y-chromosome haplogroups in addition to haplogroups M and R1. This suggests that the paleoamericans were probably Khoisan as suggested by Coon (1962), Howells (1973, 1989) and Dixon (2001). These Paleoamericans introduced haplogroups M and R into the America.

The Khoisan people came to the Americas between 20-10kya. They began to settle Europe 44kya.


References:

Berniell-Lee G, Calafell F, Bosch E, Heyer E, Sica L, Mouguiama-Daouda P, Van der Veen L, Hombert JM, Quintana-Murci L and Comas D (2009). Genetic and Demographic Implications of the Bantu Expansion: Insights from Human Paternal Lineages. Molecular Biology and Evolution 26(7) 1581- 1589; Available: doi:10.1093/molbev/msp069.

Carvalho M, Brito P, Bento AM, Gomes V, Antunes H, Costa HA, Lopes V, Serra A, Balsa F, Andrade L, Anjos MJ, Corte-Real F and Gusmăo L (2011). Paternal and maternal lineages in GuineaBissau population. Forensic Sciences International Genetic 5(2) 114-6.

Coia V, Destro-Bisol G, Verginelli F, Battaggia C, Boschi I, Cruciani F, Spedini G, Comas D and Calafell F (2005). Brief communication: mtDNA variation in North Cameroon: lack of Asian lineages and implications for back migration from Asia to sub-Saharan Africa. American Journal of Physical Anthropology, (electronically published May 13, 2005; accessed August 5, 2005). (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/110495269/PDFSTART


Cruciani F, Trombetta B, Sellitto D, Massaia A, destroy-Bisol G, Watson E and Colomb EB (2010). European Journal of Human Genetics (6 January 2010), Available: doi:10.1038/ejhg.2009.231: 1-8

Cruciani F, Santolamazza P, Shen P, Macaulay V, Moral P and Olckers A (2002). A Back Migration from Asia to Sub-Saharan Africa is supported by High-Resolution Analysis of Human Y-chromosome Haplotypes. American Journal of Human Genetics 70 1197-1214.

Coon CS (1962). The Origin of Races (New York: Knopf).

Dixon EJ (2001). Human colonization of the Americas: timing, chronology and process. Quaternary Science Review 20 277–99.

Fucharoen G, Fucharoen S, Horai S.(2001). Mitochondrial DNA polymorphism in Thailand. J Hum Genet , 46:115-125.

Gonzalez et al., (2012). The genetic landscape of Equatorial Guinea and the origin and migration routes of the Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88. European Journal of Human Genetics, advance online publication 15 August 2012; Available: doi: 10.1038/ejhg.2012.167.

Gonder MK, Mortensen HM, Reed FA, de Sousa A, Tishkoff SA.(2006).: Whole mtDNA Genome Sequence Analysis of Ancient African Lineages. Mol Biol Evol., Dec 28.

Howells WW (1973). Cranial Variation in Man: A Study by Multivariate Analysis of Patterns of Difference among Recent Human Populations. Papers of the Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology, Cambridge, MA: Harvard University 67.

Howells WW (1989). Skull Shapes and the Map: Craniometric Analyses in the Dispersion of ModernHomo. Papers of the Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology, Cambridge, MA: Harvard
University 79.


Winters C (2011a). Comment: Genetic Evidence of Early Migrations into America. Retrived 2/18/2015: http://www.plosone.org/annotation/listThread.action?root=18395

Winters C (2011b). Is Native American R Y-Chromosome of African Origin?. Current Research Journal of Biological Sciences 3(6) 555-558.

Winters C (2011c). The Gibraltar Out of Africa Exit for Anatomically Modern Humans. Webmed Central Biology 2(10) WMC002319, Available: http://www.webmedcentral.com/article_view/2319

.


Winters,C. (2015). THE PALEOAMERICANS CAME FROM AFRICA,jirr.htm2015 Vol. 3 (3) July-September, pp.71-83/Winter. https://www.academia.edu/17137182/THE_PALEOAMERICANS_CAME_FROM_AFRICA

Winters,C. (2015a). AFRICAN ORIGIN OF NATIVE AMERICAN R1-M173. International Journal of Innovative Research and Review , 3 (1):21-29. http://www.cibtech.org/J-Innovative-Research-Review/Publications/2015/Vol-3-No-1/04-JIRR-004-CLYDE-AFRICAN.pdf

_________HLA-B*35 IN MEXICAN AMERINDIANS AND
AFRICAN , https://www.academia.edu/11789004/HLA-B_35_IN_MEXICAN_AMERINDIANS_AND_AFRICAN_POPULATIONS

___________Inference of Ancient Black Mexican Tribes and DNA, http://www.webmedcentral.com/article_view/4856

_______________. AFRICAN ORIGINS PALEOAMERICAN DNA . https://www.academia.edu/12231300/AFRICAN_ORIGINS_PALEOAMERICAN_DNA



Yao YG, Kong QP, Bandelt HJ, Kivisild T, Zhang YP.(2002). Phylogeographic differentiation of mitochondrial DNA in Han chinese. Am J Hum Genet , 70:635-651.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

haplogroup D, which is the same as African M1, and R-M173. Both of these haplogroups are carried by West Africans.


Haplogroup D is not the same as M1, stop lying

It is found in highest frequencies amongst people you call "mongoloid" and live in North East Asia. It is clearly not an African haplogroup

Clyde you have lost your mind....

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Doug M
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Meanwhile in Egypt today, look at the black natives helping excavate a statue of Ramses II:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/10/africa/ramses-ii-ozymandias-statue-cairo/

 -
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/egypt-pharaoh-ramses-ii-giant-statue-cairo-slum-archaelogists-antiquities-a7622096.html

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Ish Geber
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Wow nice picture.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
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I'm the only person proposing a clinal model here. You afroloons cling to an antiquated racialist model like Linnaeus' Homo Africanus. You think there is some African meta-population/pan-African genetic cluster and therefore a discontinuity between the Levant and Egypt. No. And pretty much all bio-anthropologists disagree with you (even Keita if you read him carefully).

Laughable nonsense from the "ANglo/Cass/Thule" buffoon, who has been debunked
numerous times and still keeps trying to find some kind of "Caucasoid angle"
that can salvage his rubbish.

What "clinal model" simpleton? Your "argument from distance" is yet more laughable
garbage restated with more verbiage but still garbage. Recycling it in the hopes you
have found some "smoking gun" is a miserable failure. You tried the same thing
a few weeks back by arguing that the Nile cataracts "hindered" gene flow into Egypt
-which is yet another variation on your debunked "argument from distance". But as
pointed out back then, Africans do migrate to any part of the continent they want to.
They don't conveniently cluster due mainly to "distance." Let's recap your earlier failure.

quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
The reason is quite simple: the southern frontier/boundary of Egypt at the first cataract of the Nile was the approximate position of the Tropic of Cancer throughout classical antiquity. Sub-Egyptians from the tropics are darker skinned than Egyptians because of their latitude and the Tropic of Cancer was the "yardstick" for who was/isn't black, at least by the Greeks. This also shows in the Old Testament/Jewish texts, Egyptians while a (lighter) shade of brown, are contrasted to the darker black Nubians. [/b]

Simplistic rubbish. Why would the Tropic of Cancer be any kind of "yardstick"
of blackness? 3 strikes and you lose again.

STRIKE 1
Hard as it is for some Simpletons to grasp, tropical Africans
move around the continent at will. They don't stay
huddled behind some sort of climatic "apartheid" line.
Because they DO move around credible scientists show
that the foundational population of Kemet was tropically
adapted, and that they came from "sub-Saharan" Africa..

 -



STRIKE 2
Even in the north, mainstream scholars find the same tropical adaptations...
The arrival of late period populations would cause more variation but it
still does not change the bottom line foundations.

As Kemp 2005 notes: QUOTE(s):
"..sample populations available from northern
Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi
and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different
from sample populations from early Palestine and
Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over
a long time. If there was a south-north cline
variation along the Nile valley it did not, from
this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into
southern Palestine. The limb-length proportions
of males from the Egyptian sites group them with
Africans rather than with Europeans."

--(Barry Kemp, "Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation. (2005) Routledge. p. 52-60)


 -
Oooohhh we have to drop everything and stop now- there's
the first cataract.. lol


STRIKE 3

The southern border of Egypt at Aswan has been a border in SOME years.
But as credible Egyptologists show, Egypt has often controlled land
BEYOND that traditional line. In fact some of the most notable
archaeological sites in Egypt are found south of Aswan..
Duh.. As if the Egyptians dropped everything and stopped at Aswan..

QUOTE:
"This cataract generally marked Egypt's southern boundary, although throughout
its history the land that Egypt has controlled has included more southern areas,
including parts of what is now Sudan."


--Salima Ikram. 2009. Ancient Egypt: An Introduction. Cambridge University Press
(Salima Ikram is Professor of Egyptology at the American University in Cairo.)


THAT'S THREE STRIKES.
Shouldn't you be somewhere fulminating bout "taking back our country?"

 -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOW ON TO YOUR OTHER GARBAGE:

"Caucasoid" features are not found at high frequency in west sub-Saharan African populations.

Dull buffoon, as already shown by credible scholars, sub-Saharan Africans have the highest phenotypical
diversity in the world. Things like narrow noses are not "Caucasian" they are a built-in part of
NATIVE African diversity. Pretending that they aren't simply exposes you in yet another lie.

 -


he mantra "Sub-Saharans have the greatest phenotypic variation" Afrocentrists spam on this forum ad nauseam ignores the geographical structure of this variation in Sub-Saharan Africa.

LMAO ignorant dolt. NOthing is "ignored" in a simple statement of the scinetific facts.
Sub-Saharan Africans DO have the highest phenotypical diversity, and "geographical structure"
such as it is, is irrelevant to this central point. Narrow noses appear in "sub-Saharan"
Africa routinely and are nothing special. Since when does "Nigeria" define all Africa? You
do not apply the same reasoning to Europe and say that Swedes represent all Europeans, again exposing
your hypocrisy.


Furthermore, it is not the case that "Caucasoid" features are common across the whole of East Africa,
Features you keep calling "Caucasoid" are not so at all, but are part of built-in African native diversity.
All your claims fail on this central point, no matter how you try to "repackage" them. And by the way
both Somalians, Ethiopians etc are "sub-Saharan" Africans dufus.


Your argument was more advanced culture came primarily from the south not north. But all evidence shows the opposite for the Neolithic period.

Dullard, you are wrong again. It is precisely during the Neolithic which some scholars extend up to 2000BC,
that said culture cam from the south. You say "all evidence" But have not produced a single shed of "all" this
evidence. What's taking you so long dufus? While we wait on yet another round of bullshiit from you here's
some actual data. Note credible scholars show that the Dynastic state emerges around the 3rd millennium BC,
and that the impetus was from the south. So tell us ignorant fool, where is "all this evidence" you say
that it wasn't so.. Speak up dufus!

 -


Real tawk is African-American, he's a former Black Hebrew Israelite.

LMAO.. SO this is your "go to" black guy? Black "Hebe"-brew.. Oooohhh that's real credible....
 -


I have bigger fish to fry, like actual pedophile scumbags, only yesterday who sent me a threat of stalking a child at local primary school near me http://matthewhopkinsnews.com/?p=4820. You know I could have completely destroyed those lives of those afrocentrists here who targeted me? I could have created 1000 blogs, websites, even .coms., then got their doxes and so on. But I didn't.


I have bigger fish to fry, like actual pedophile scumbags, only yesterday who sent me a threat of stalking a child at local primary school near me. You know I could have completely destroyed those lives of those afrocentrists here who targeted me? I could have created 1000 blogs, websites, even .coms., then got their doxes and so on. But I didn't.

Lying biotch. YOU yourself have been involved in a war with so-called "Afrocentrists"
in the UK where you HAVE been creating multiple sock-puppet accounts, multiple blogs
and doxing them. Your own conduct here exposes your lies- from your multiple troll accounts
(Thule/Dead/Cass/Moon and dozens of others), to your multiple web blogs and sites
such as your bogus "Hamitic Union", to your purported "administration" of Rational wiki
etc all expose you. Now you try to pose as this innocent, persecuted babe, "unfairly"
harassed by the UK "Afrocentrics"? Dude, you yoself engaged in the dirtiest tricks
and smear tactics, and now you whine about "Unfairness" when on the receiving end?
Biotch please...


Take into consideration when I joined this forum in 2010 I was still a teenager. I've recently just turned 26

You have lied so much why should anyone beleive your latest claim? ANd 20 years old
is an adult not a teenager. DOn't try to use that as an excuse.


Perhaps you missed the fact pre-2013 I argued for Hamitism, but post-2013 do not. I now argue ancient Egyptian civilization was indigenous.

No one is fooled by your bogus "disclaimer". You argued for OUTSIDE Hamiticism back
then. Now you argue for a "softer" internal Hamiticism without huge visible oncoming flows
of mystical "Hamitic" migrants, but your "new" formula isn;t fooling anyone.
You still are running your long debunked "Caucasoid" Egypt con game, only now
the "Caucasoids" are indigenous. You were forced to change your tune because you and your
troll buddies elsewhere were continuously exposed, embarrassed and debunked, so now you
have switched labels and tactics, but no one is being fooled.

--------------------
Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began..

Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

haplogroup D, which is the same as African M1, and R-M173. Both of these haplogroups are carried by West Africans.


Haplogroup D is not the same as M1, stop lying

It is found in highest frequencies amongst people you call "mongoloid" and live in North East Asia. It is clearly not an African haplogroup

Clyde you have lost your mind....

Not really, you only think so because you're a Euronut.


The D haplogroup is nothing more than a African M haplogroup. The sub-clade D4, is the Asian name for the M1 haplogroup.

Haplotypes with HVSI transitions defining 16129-16223-16249-16278-16311-16362; and 16129-16223-16234-16249-16211-16362 have been found in Thailand and among the Han Chinese (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002) and these were originally thought to be members of Haplogroup M1

Haplogroup M was a common Paleoamerican haplogroup. Paleoamericans carried haplogroup M. the 5000 year old skeletons from China Lake, British Columbia carried the M haplogroup (Malhi et al., 2007). This was confirmed by Malhi et al (2007), who found that the skeletons belong to haplogroup M, exhibiting the AluI site gain at np 10397. He was unable to match the China Lake skeletons’ mtDNA to haplogroup C, D, or sub-haplogroup M7, M8, or M9.

Although, these haplogroups are assigned an Asian origin Africans also carry these M subclades including , for example, haplogroups A and M7. Some Native American present Sub-Saharan African admixture. The Mande speakers carry mtDNA haplogroup A, which is common among Mexicans namely the Mixe and Mixtecs . In addition to the Mande speaking people of West Africa, Southeast Africa Africans also carry mtDNA A.

Naia of Mexico was D1 and Anzick child was also D4. Most contemporary Native Americans carry mtDNA that belongs to the M macrohaplogroup, namely A and B.
The D haplogroup , is the name for M1, in Asia (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002). Haplotypes with HVSI transitions defining 16129-16223-16249-16278-16311-16362; and 16129-16223-16234-16249-16211-16362 have been found in Thailand and among the Han Chinese (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002) and these were originally thought to be members of Haplogroup M1.

However, on the basis of currently available FGS sequences, carriers of these markers are now labled D4a branch of Haplogroup D . Given the transitions in haplogroup D, it is the most widespread branch of M1 in East Asia (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002).

The transitions 16129,16189,16249 and 16311 are known to be recurrent in various branches of Haplogroup M, especially M1 and D4. Due to these transitions we can argue that Native Americans carrying D, are carrying African haplogroup M, especially M1 in the case of haplogroup D4.

References:

Fucharoen G, Fucharoen S, Horai S.(2001). Mitochondrial DNA polymorphism in Thailand. J Hum Genet , 46:115-125.

Malhi , R. et al. (2006) Mitochondrial haplogroup M discovered in prehistoric North Am J Arch Scien 34 (2007), http://public.wsu.edu/~bmkemp/publications/pubs/Malhi_et_al_2007.pdf ; https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222693166_Haplogroup_M_discovered_in_prehistoric_North_America

Yao YG, Kong QP, Bandelt HJ, Kivisild T, Zhang YP.(2002). Phylogeographic differentiation of mitochondrial DNA in Han chinese. Am J Hum Genet , 70:635-651.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The sub-clade D4, is the Asian name for the M1 haplogroup.


^ LIE

You are LYING

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@ Zaharan

Any quick glimpse at a nasal index map (based on NB/NH means from population samples) shows you're lying. Narrow noses are not common to western/central (and most parts of east) Sub-Saharan Africa (only excluding the Horn). Narrow (leptorrhine) is yellow and red on this map (< 70).

 -
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26296373_A_systematic_review_of_the_nasal_index_and_the_significance_of_the_shape_and_size_of_the_nose_in_rhinology

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So would you like to retract your statement narrow noses are common/"routine" to west Africa? [Roll Eyes]
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quote:
You
do not apply the same reasoning to Europe and say that Swedes represent all Europeans, again exposing your hypocrisy.

All living European populations have mean NI's under 70, so yes, Swedes do represent all Europeans in this measurement we're talking about.

Please look at the map I posted and stop transparently lying so much about the data. Show me populations from Sub-Saharan Africa (excluding the very few exceptions I already noted) that have mean NI's under 70. Find me a single population from west Africa that is leptorrhine.

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Nigerian Igbo
Male 95.9 Platyrrhine
Female 90.8 Platyrrhine

Nigerian Yoruba’s
Male 90.0 Platyrrhine
Female 88.1 Platyrrhine

Nigerian I-Jaws
Male 98.6 Platyrrhine
Female 94.2 Platyrrhine

Nigerian Ogonis
98.50 Platyrrhine

Nigeria–Yorubas
Male 89.85 Platyrrhine
Female 83.66 Mesorrhine

Nigeria-Okrikas
Male 86.23 Platyrrhine
Female 86.46 Platyrrhine

Nigeria–Adonis
Male 79.83 Mesorrhine

- Oladipo GS, Olabiyi AO, Oremosu AA, Noronha CC. Nasal indices among
major ethnic groups in Southern Nigeria. Sci Res Essays 2007;2:20-2.
- Oladipo G, Fawehinmi H, Suleiman Y. The study of nasal parameters (nasal
height, nasal width, nasal index) amongstthe Yorubas of Nigeria. Internet J
Biol Anthropol 2008;3:18-22.
- Ladipo GS, Eroje MA, Fahwehinmi HB. Anthropometric comparison of
nasal indices between Andoni and Okrika tribes of rivers state, Nigeria. Int
J Med Med Sci 2009;1:135-7.

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quote:
Originally posted by Doug M:
[QB] Meanwhile in Egypt today, look at the black natives helping excavate a statue of Ramses II:


Again, cherry-picked. Using the same source of those URLs I find people a lot lighter skinned.

 -

Is this man "black"?

How about these:
http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170310155237-ramses-ii-cairo-statue-4-full-169.jpg

Photo too large to post.

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@ Zaharaclown, see particularly bold. My problem with you is your double standard, you're just an African-American version of Steve Sailer.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NileValleyPeoples

NileValleyPeoples is a pseudoscientific Afrocentric blog run by a black supremacist crank from Egyptsearch. It promotes the racialist theory that the ancient Egyptians were "black" (see Ancient Egyptian race controversy) and somehow "tropically-adapted" (despite the fact that the vast majority of Egypt is above the Tropic of Cancer in latitude).

Double standard

NileValleyPeoples claims to oppose racialism and has sections on its blog debunking the "Human Bio-Diversity" (HBD) of Steve Sailer. However, it promotes its own Afrocentric view of racialism e.g. an African "genetic cluster", pooling all, or most populations in Africa together as part of some "African race", or African meta-population. In reality no such continental cluster exists, as shown by modern genetic studies.

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quote:
Originally posted by Punos_Rey:
Make no mistake Cass I'll definitely be getting in touch with the other admins at rationalwiki to get you removed from your post asap.

I've not been an admin there since October 2015.

Regardless, the following article is now near a top for a google search, getting far more traffic than Zaharan's pseudo-science blog.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_race_controversy

If read properly, Keita doesn't support these Afroloons like Zaharan.

"His [Kieta's] cranial analyses indicate diversity, with a range of skull types intermediate between those found in Europe and those in Sub-Saharan Africa, with remains from the Upper Nile showing more frequent ‘African’ features, than those further north, and evidence of increased intermingling overtime (Keita, 1990, 1992)." (Howe, 1998: 134)

"[M]orphometric patterns of Egyptian crania in general, although highly variable, exhibit a position intermediate to stereotypical tropical Africans and Europeans in multivariate analyses." (Keita, 2005)

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The sub-clade D4, is the Asian name for the M1 haplogroup.


^ LIE

You are LYING

No one can lie as much as you Euronuts. The Academe has given the same haplogroups different names to disguise the actual African identity of of many genes carried by people outside Africa.

The truth will set you free.


The D haplogroup is nothing more than a African M haplogroup. The sub-clade D4, is the Asian name for the M1 haplogroup.

Haplotypes with HVSI transitions defining 16129-16223-16249-16278-16311-16362; and 16129-16223-16234-16249-16211-16362 have been found in Thailand and among the Han Chinese (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002) and these were originally thought to be members of Haplogroup M1

Haplogroup M was a common Paleoamerican haplogroup. Paleoamericans carried haplogroup M. the 5000 year old skeletons from China Lake, British Columbia carried the M haplogroup (Malhi et al., 2007). This was confirmed by Malhi et al (2007), who found that the skeletons belong to haplogroup M, exhibiting the AluI site gain at np 10397. He was unable to match the China Lake skeletons’ mtDNA to haplogroup C, D, or sub-haplogroup M7, M8, or M9.

Although, these haplogroups are assigned an Asian origin Africans also carry these M subclades including , for example, haplogroups A and M7. Some Native American present Sub-Saharan African admixture. The Mande speakers carry mtDNA haplogroup A, which is common among Mexicans namely the Mixe and Mixtecs . In addition to the Mande speaking people of West Africa, Southeast Africa Africans also carry mtDNA A.

Naia of Mexico was D1 and Anzick child was also D4. Most contemporary Native Americans carry mtDNA that belongs to the M macrohaplogroup, namely A and B.
The D haplogroup , is the name for M1, in Asia (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002). Haplotypes with HVSI transitions defining 16129-16223-16249-16278-16311-16362; and 16129-16223-16234-16249-16211-16362 have been found in Thailand and among the Han Chinese (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002) and these were originally thought to be members of Haplogroup M1.

However, on the basis of currently available FGS sequences, carriers of these markers are now labled D4a branch of Haplogroup D . Given the transitions in haplogroup D, it is the most widespread branch of M1 in East Asia (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002).

The transitions 16129,16189,16249 and 16311 are known to be recurrent in various branches of Haplogroup M, especially M1 and D4. Due to these transitions we can argue that Native Americans carrying D, are carrying African haplogroup M, especially M1 in the case of haplogroup D4.

References:

Fucharoen G, Fucharoen S, Horai S.(2001). Mitochondrial DNA polymorphism in Thailand. J Hum Genet , 46:115-125.

Malhi , R. et al. (2006) Mitochondrial haplogroup M discovered in prehistoric North Am J Arch Scien 34 (2007), http://public.wsu.edu/~bmkemp/publications/pubs/Malhi_et_al_2007.pdf ; https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222693166_Haplogroup_M_discovered_in_prehistoric_North_America

Yao YG, Kong QP, Bandelt HJ, Kivisild T, Zhang YP.(2002). Phylogeographic differentiation of mitochondrial DNA in Han chinese. Am J Hum Genet , 70:635-651.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:


The D haplogroup is nothing more than a African M haplogroup. The sub-clade D4, is the Asian name for the M1 haplogroup.


Clyde, do you think if you say that over and over again it makes it true?

Haplogroup D is not M1.

You are lying

You are the only one on planet earth making such a claim

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Clyde Winter's disinfo tactics exposed...resorting to childish tactics when backed in a corner.

quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[QUOTE]
The Academe has given the same haplogroups different names to disguise the actual African identity of of many genes carried by people outside Africa.

quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
you're a Euronut.


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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:


The D haplogroup is nothing more than a African M haplogroup. The sub-clade D4, is the Asian name for the M1 haplogroup.


Clyde, do you think if you say that over and over again it makes it true?

Haplogroup D is not M1.

You are lying

You are the only one on planet earth making such a claim

I am not the only one. Yao et al, and Fucharoen et al, in their discussion of the haplogroup D mutations were the first to illustrate that haplogroup D(4) was in reality M1, until they changed the nomenclature. This is much the same as in the case of R-M173, which was recognized as R1, but is now called V88.

No one can lie as much as you Euronuts. The Academe has given the same haplogroups different names to disguise the actual African identity of of many genes carried by people outside Africa.

The truth will set you free.


The D haplogroup is nothing more than a African M haplogroup. The sub-clade D4, is the Asian name for the M1 haplogroup.

Haplotypes with HVSI transitions defining 16129-16223-16249-16278-16311-16362; and 16129-16223-16234-16249-16211-16362 have been found in Thailand and among the Han Chinese (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002) and these were originally thought to be members of Haplogroup M1

Haplogroup M was a common Paleoamerican haplogroup. Paleoamericans carried haplogroup M. the 5000 year old skeletons from China Lake, British Columbia carried the M haplogroup (Malhi et al., 2007). This was confirmed by Malhi et al (2007), who found that the skeletons belong to haplogroup M, exhibiting the AluI site gain at np 10397. He was unable to match the China Lake skeletons’ mtDNA to haplogroup C, D, or sub-haplogroup M7, M8, or M9.

Although, these haplogroups are assigned an Asian origin Africans also carry these M subclades including , for example, haplogroups A and M7. Some Native American present Sub-Saharan African admixture. The Mande speakers carry mtDNA haplogroup A, which is common among Mexicans namely the Mixe and Mixtecs . In addition to the Mande speaking people of West Africa, Southeast Africa Africans also carry mtDNA A.

Naia of Mexico was D1 and Anzick child was also D4. Most contemporary Native Americans carry mtDNA that belongs to the M macrohaplogroup, namely A and B.
The D haplogroup , is the name for M1, in Asia (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002). Haplotypes with HVSI transitions defining 16129-16223-16249-16278-16311-16362; and 16129-16223-16234-16249-16211-16362 have been found in Thailand and among the Han Chinese (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002) and these were originally thought to be members of Haplogroup M1.

However, on the basis of currently available FGS sequences, carriers of these markers are now labled D4a branch of Haplogroup D . Given the transitions in haplogroup D, it is the most widespread branch of M1 in East Asia (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002).

The transitions 16129,16189,16249 and 16311 are known to be recurrent in various branches of Haplogroup M, especially M1 and D4. Due to these transitions we can argue that Native Americans carrying D, are carrying African haplogroup M, especially M1 in the case of haplogroup D4.

References:

Fucharoen G, Fucharoen S, Horai S.(2001). Mitochondrial DNA polymorphism in Thailand. J Hum Genet , 46:115-125.

Malhi , R. et al. (2006) Mitochondrial haplogroup M discovered in prehistoric North Am J Arch Scien 34 (2007), http://public.wsu.edu/~bmkemp/publications/pubs/Malhi_et_al_2007.pdf ; https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222693166_Haplogroup_M_discovered_in_prehistoric_North_America

Yao YG, Kong QP, Bandelt HJ, Kivisild T, Zhang YP.(2002). Phylogeographic differentiation of mitochondrial DNA in Han chinese. Am J Hum Genet , 70:635-651.

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This is the same Clyde Winters who claimed he is a "Professor of Education, Anthropology and Linguistics", and "Faculty Member, Archaeogenetics" at the Uthman dan Fodio Institute (UdFI)".

The Uthman dan Fodio Institute (UdFI) is his own house and records show the UdFI is a private home school which only has a history of enrolling and teaching African-American students of the 8th grade (13 - 14 year olds).

Clyde is a massive FRAUD.

How the hell do you teach Archaeogenetics to 13 year olds.??? LOL!

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by Cass/:
This is the same Clyde Winters who claimed he is a "Professor of Education, Anthropology and Linguistics", and "Faculty Member, Archaeogenetics" at the Uthman dan Fodio Institute (UdFI)".

The Uthman dan Fodio Institute (UdFI) is his own house and records show the UdFI is a private home school which only has a history of enrolling and teaching African-American students of the 8th grade (13 - 14 year olds).

Clyde is a massive FRAUD.

How the hell do you teach Archaeogenetics to 13 year olds.??? LOL!

I am not a fraud. I clearly outline the history of UdFI at our website: http://olmec98.net/UdFI.htm

We are not teaching children or adolescents.

Lying Euronut. UdFI is not a home school. It is a research Institute and we teach on-line courses.

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Clyde Winters
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Researchers are constantly changing the names of haplogroups. This is especially true of the aDNA to make it appear that ancient populations are not related to Africans. For example, instead of just admitting that Anzick child belonged to the M haplogroup, they identify the skeleton as a carrier of haplogroup D4. At first Ust-ishim, I believe was originally said to belong to haplogroup R, but now is identified as belonging to the Q haplogroup, so it can group his population with mongoloid Native Americans, who predominately carry the Q haplogroup.

Looking at ancient DNA to determine ancient population origins can be misleading. Let’s look at dna of Ust-ishim and Clovis-Anzick man as it compares to modern populations.


 -
Although it is clear that Ust-ishim was T2b3, the popular press claims he belonged to the haplogroup U clade. Look at the cousins of Ust-ishim it is these modern people who belong to the U clade that are his cousins. See: http://www.fi.id.au/2014/11/ust-ishim-ancient-dna-has-matches-with.html


Look at the Clovis-Anzick DNA matches to modern people.

 -

If you look closely you can see how they match many Non-Native Americans. See http://www.fi.id.au/2014/09/clovis-anzick-1-dna-match-living-people.html


What does this mean? It means that researchers may be reporting results that have been contaminated and that they may only be giving us results that match their expectations of how the data should look.

IN relation to Anzick man Felix Immanuel noted that:

quote:


Just a quick recap, I processed the raw data for Clovis-Anzick-1 and uploaded into GEDMatch and to my surprise, there are matches as near as 3rd to 4th cousins. Now, that's a real problem because, the matches are to a DNA sample older than 12500 years. This is practically impossible and very mysterious.[/img] I will investigate step-by-step and see what are all the possibilities and failure points, which could solve the problem. But before that, we need to be absolutely sure that these matches are indeed valid. From the matches, I requested for phased kit and I indeed got one - Thanks to Mario Diaz and Veronica.


See: http://www.fi.id.au/search/label/Anzick




He added that
quote:


Clearly, an IBD segment of 5 cM above 500 SNPs with total IBD segments around 10+ cM cannot be 12500 years old. This is a fact and can be verified using known relationships in families and DNA companies are using these benchmarks all along for showing genetic matches. This fact is more than enough to conclude that the Clovis-Anzick-1 sample is not actually ancient. My best guess is, the infant boy's sample is just from the last century and it was wrongly labeled as 12500 years old or the sample got contaminated.


See: http://www.fi.id.au/search/label/Anzick


The major problem in understanding the relationship between Africans, and Blacks in Asia and Native America is the constant changing of the names of haplogroups, like the change of Asian M1 into D(4), and the change of African R-1 into V88.
Another name change is the recent decision to call East Asian , R1 haplogroups, haplogroup Q because these haplogroups have just about the same mutations.
This post illustrates how ancient the DNA is not always a clear marker of actual ancient events, and how researchers can chose almost any haplogroup as representative of an ancient population..

Really, when we look at ancient American dna for example, the dna is of African origin. See: https://www.academia.edu/12231300/AFRICAN_ORIGINS_PALEOAMERICAN_DNA


Indeed, Neanderthal and the other ancient people were

--------------------
C. A. Winters

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Researchers are constantly changing the names of haplogroups.

It's called scientific progress.
Of course, new genetic discoveries are being made all the time and the nomenclature gets updated to more precision.
But what you do is mix and match old and new fragments to create fog for the shell game, your preconceive assumptions that haven't changed since 1972


quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
I am not the only one. Yao et al, and Fucharoen et al, in their discussion of the haplogroup D mutations were the first to illustrate that haplogroup D(4) was in reality M1, until they changed the nomenclature.

You are lying again Yao or Fucharoen did not say D4 was M1, you do not have not quote of them saying that, you are just name dropping
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[qb] Researchers are constantly changing the names of haplogroups. This is especially true of the aDNA to make it appear that ancient populations are not related to Africans. For example, instead of just admitting that Anzick child belonged to the M haplogroup, they identify the skeleton as a carrier of haplogroup D4. At first Ust-ishim, I believe was originally said to belong to haplogroup R, but now is identified as belonging to the Q haplogroup, so it can group his population with mongoloid Native Americans, who predominately carry the Q haplogroup.

Looking at ancient DNA to determine ancient population origins can be misleading. Let’s look at dna of Ust-ishim and Clovis-Anzick man as it compares to modern populations.


 -
Although it is clear that Ust-ishim was T2b3, the popular press claims he belonged to the haplogroup U clade. Look at the cousins of Ust-ishim it is these modern people who belong to the U clade that are his cousins. See: http://www.fi.id.au/2014/11/ust-ishim-ancient-dna-has-matches-with.html


Look at the Clovis-Anzick DNA matches to modern people.

 -

If you look closely you can see how they match many Non-Native Americans. See http://www.fi.id.au/2014/09/clovis-anzick-1-dna-match-living-people.html


What does this mean? It means that researchers may be reporting results that have been contaminated and that they may only be giving us results that match their expectations of how the data should look.

IN relation to Anzick man Felix Immanuel noted that:

quote:


Just a quick recap, I processed the raw data for Clovis-Anzick-1 and uploaded into GEDMatch and to my surprise, there are matches as near as 3rd to 4th cousins. Now, that's a real problem because, the matches are to a DNA sample older than 12500 years. This is practically impossible and very mysterious.[/img] I will investigate step-by-step and see what are all the possibilities and failure points, which could solve the problem. But before that, we need to be absolutely sure that these matches are indeed valid. From the matches, I requested for phased kit and I indeed got one - Thanks to Mario Diaz and Veronica.


See: http://www.fi.id.au/search/label/Anzick




He added that
quote:


Clearly, an IBD segment of 5 cM above 500 SNPs with total IBD segments around 10+ cM cannot be 12500 years old. This is a fact and can be verified using known relationships in families and DNA companies are using these benchmarks all along for showing genetic matches. This fact is more than enough to conclude that the Clovis-Anzick-1 sample is not actually ancient. My best guess is, the infant boy's sample is just from the last century and it was wrongly labeled as 12500 years old or the sample got contaminated.


See: http://www.fi.id.au/search/label/Anzick


The major problem in understanding the relationship between Africans, and Blacks in Asia and Native America is the constant changing of the names of haplogroups, like the change of Asian M1 into D(4), and the change of African R-1 into V88.
Another name change is the recent decision to call East Asian , R1 haplogroups, haplogroup Q because these haplogroups have just about the same mutations.
This post illustrates how ancient the DNA is not always a clear marker of actual ancient events, and how researchers can chose almost any haplogroup as representative of an ancient population..


^^^ This is nonsense all the links are dead

And the come from an intelligent design blog, the author doesn't even have a bio

http://fi.id.au/

Clyde this is a fail, not legit references

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