posted
I hate being right (sic). So I ask again why the sudden dominance or R1b-M269
Gioiello said... @ Nirjhar007 "Dave, This is an important looking paper by Dr. Kivisild, you should blog?"
KIVISILD: WHO? [But in Italian it is better: Kivisild: Chi [ki]]?
A geneticist, who writes that, doesn't understand anything about haplogroup R1b
"In contrast to preceding Early and Middle Neolithic sections of time, a large proportion of the Y chromosomes recovered from Bronze Age remains of Central Europe, Northern Caucasus and the Steppe belt of Russia belong to a couple of sub-clades of haplogroups R1a-M420 and R1b-M343 (Fig. 7). Late Neolithic, Early Bronze Age and Iron Age samples from Central and Western Europe have typically the R1b-L11, R1a1-Z283 and R1a-M417 (xZ645) affiliation while the samples from the Yamnaya and Samara neighbourhood are different and belong to sub-clades R1b11-Z2105 and R1a2-Z93 (Allentoft et al. 2015; Cassidy et al. 2016; Haak et al. 2015; Mathieson et al. 2015; Schiffels et al. 2016). The R1b11-Z2015 lineage is today common in the Caucasus and Volga-Uralic region while being virtually absent in Central and Western Europe (Broushaki et al. 2016). Interestingly, the earliest offshoot of extant haplogroup R1b-M343 variation, the V88 subclade, which is currently most common in Fulani speaking populations in Africa (Cruciani et al. 2010) has distant relatives in Early Neolithic samples from across wide geographic area from Iberia, Germany to Samara (Fig. 7). In a similar way, early offshoots of the R1b and R1a phylogenies, including R1b lineages derived at P297 and ancestral at M269, and R1a lineages which are derived at M459 while ancestral at M198 and M417 markers have been found in mid-Holocene hunter-gatherer samples in a wide area in Eastern Europe, from Karelia, Latvia and Samara region (Haak et al. 2015; Jones et al. 2017; Mathieson et al. 2015). Extremely rare extant sub-clades of R1a, such as R1a4-YP5061, R1a5-YP1272, and R1a6-YP4141 (Fig. 7), may bear witness to a long-term continuity of such old genetic lineages while the majority of present-day R1a and R1b lineages in West Eurasia derives from just a handful of Late Neolithic/Early Bronze Age male founders". March 8, 2017 at 10:04 PM
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I need to read the paper. The above was a repost.
Quote “A geneticist, who writes that, doesn't understand anything about haplogroup R1b”. Rabid, fanatical remark by a poster. Kivisild should not be included in the white male category. Lol! Racist!!! Man! These people. See Dhoxie. There are some good white people. Is Kivisild a traitor to his “race” because he spoke the truth? Like you labeled Lazaridis and Lucas Martin white traitors.
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"In contrast to preceding Early..." is from the actual study or abstract. The preceding remarks was from a/the poster annoyed by the researcher publishing the study.
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quote:Originally posted by Punos_Rey: I'm confused by this thread, is the longer passage the one being referred to as "not understanding"?
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KIVISILD the researcher geneticist is claiming that the Western European male line is NOT from the Steppes but more related to R-V88 found in West African Fulani's. I remember Dr Winters, I agreed with him, claimed that there may have been an ancient population in West Africa that carried R-V88/R1b. Well the chicken is coming home to roost?
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posted
Toomas Kivisild1 (2017).The study of human Y chromosome variation through ancient DNA. web page
The article is interesting. It is most interesting because it places V88 in ancient Europe.
It is sad that researchers fail to publish this reality.
Also, they claim that many of the ancient Europeans carried Y chromosome Haplogroup C that is common today in populations of Siberia, Southeast Asia and Oceania.The C haplogroup was carried by Kostenki man.
In addition to y-Chromosome haplogroup C, many ancient Europeans also carried y-haplogroup H, which is characterized bt the Siddis of India, who are of Ethiopian origin.
quote:
Ancient DNA evidence from Anatolia and Iran confirms that G, along with H, was the most common Y chromosome haplogroup of the early farmers in these areas (Fig. 5) as well as being characteristically frequent in European Early Neolithic populations who also show low autosomal genetic distances with Anatolian farmers (Broushaki et al. 2016; Hofmanova et al. 2016; Lazaridis et al. 2016; Mathieson et al. 2015)....
In contrast to haplogroup G, the geographic distribution of haplogroup H is presently almost entirely restricted to South Asia, while one of its sub-clades, H4-L285 (Fig. 5), can be detected as an extremely rare lineage in some European populations. H4-L285 has also been found in the aY sequences of the Anatolian and Levantine farmers as well as in Iberian Chalcolithic samples (Gunther et al. 2015; Lazaridis et al. 2016). Overall, the comparisons of early and middle Holocene versus present-day distributions of haplogroup G and H suggest that as characteristic markers of the early farmer populations of Middle East they were introduced to Europe by the expanding Anatolian farming populations.
Kivisild (2017) also made it clear that V88 is the earliest offshoot of R-M343 .
quote:
Late Neolithic, Early Bronze Age and Iron Age samples from Central and Western Europe have typically the R1b-L11, R1a1-Z283 and R1a-M417 (xZ645) affiliation while the samples from the Yamnaya and Samara neighbourhood are different and belong to sub-clades R1b11-Z2105 and R1a2-Z93 (Allentoft et al. 2015; Cassidy et al. 2016; Haak et al. 2015; Mathieson et al. 2015; Schiffels et al. 2016).
The R1b11-Z2015 lineage is today common in the Caucasus and Volga-Uralic region while being virtually absent in Central and Western Europe (Broushaki et al.2016). Interestingly, the earliest offshoot of extant haplogroup R1b-M343 variation, the V88 subclade, which is currently most common in Fulani speaking populations in Africa (Cruciani et al. 2010) has distant relatives in Early Neolithic samples from across wide geographic area from Iberia, Germany to Samara (Fig. 7).
posted
Balanovsky, O., Chukhryaeva, M., Zaporozhchenko, V. et al., Genetic differentiation between upland and lowland populations shapes the Y-chromosomal landscape of West Asia, Hum Genet (2017). doi:10.1007/s00439-017-1770-2
From the clown Davidski-dude. hA! hA! hA! I told you so. Now there is further proof that Western Europeans males are NOT from the Steppes. See my thread. “The Steppes my Azz” on ESR. I made that claim over two years ago. “Apparently” (we know it is a lie) they are not sure where from, insert smirk, but sure it is NOT from the Steppes. It came from West of the Steppes (insert the Sahara). Keep in mind R-V88 has now been restructure as the first offshoot of R1b. R-V88 is found all through-out Africa and Southern Europe. This is a no brainer. Lol! Watch them squirm. Liars!
--- Quote by Davidski.
--- by Balanovsky et al. at Human Genetics dealing with, amongst other things, Y-chromosomes of the Early Bronze Age Yamnaya people:
Epic Fail
The currently available dataset does not contradict the hypothesis that R-GG400 marks a link between the East European steppe dwellers and West Asians, though the route and even direction of this migration is disputable. It does, however, demonstrate that present-day West European R1b chromosomes do not originate from the Yamnaya populations analyzed in (Haak et al. 2015; Mathieson et al. 2015) and raises the question of their origin. A Bronze Age origin is more likely than a Neolithic one (Balaresque et al. 2010), but further ancient DNA studies may be necessary to identify this source.
More to the point, the authors are trying to argue the following two rather far-fetched and tenuous positions:
- R1b-GG400, the most common Y-haplogroup in Yamnaya samples sequenced to date, moved into Eastern Europe from West Asia, and therefore the Indo-European homeland was in West Asia
- there was no massive Kurgan expansion deep into Europe from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, because the most common type of R1b in much of Europe is R1b-L51 and not R1b-GG400.
What they're ignoring is that a wide range of European Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic foragers, mostly from Eastern Europe, belong to R1b, including R1b-P297, the ancestral lineage to both R1b-GG400 and R1b-L51 (see here and here). On the other hand, not a single West Asian forager or even Neolithic farmer as yet belongs to R1b (see here).
Hence, even though it's still possible that R1b-GG400 moved into Eastern Europe from West Asia, it's no longer a parsimonious or convincing theory because it's contradicted by direct evidence from currently available ancient DNA.
The authors are also ignoring very solid evidence from genome-wide data that Yamnaya, or closely related populations from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, contributed in a big way to the ethnogenesis of modern-day Europeans. Considering that R1b-L51 is a sister clade of R1b-GG400, it's only logical to think(no Davidski it is dogmatic to think! Lol!) that it could have been one of the main Y-chromosome haplogroups associated with this event.
The paper has some nice data and maps, but it's an epic fail as a whole, because it's basically an exercise in confirmation bias.
Citation...
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I had this figured out over 5 years ago. The only puzzle was R1b-M269. We know they are Saharan Africans also but the question is why the sudden dominance AFTER the Bronze age.
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I am starting to like this Lazaridis guy. His new short paper “Failure to Replicate a Genetic Signal for Sex Bias in the Steppe Migration into Central Europe Iosif Lazaridis1,2 and David Reich1,2,3”
--- QUOTE: Goldberg et al.(1) used genome-wide ancient DNA data (2) from central European Bronze Age (BA) populations, and their three ancestral sources of steppe pastoralists (SP), Anatolian farmers (AF), and European hunter-gatherers (HG), to investigate whether the SP migration into central Europe after 5,000 years ago (3, 4) was sex biased. By estimating a lower proportion of SP ancestry on the Xchromosome (36.6%) which is primarily carried in females than on the autosomes (61.8%), they suggested that the migration involved a ratio of 5-14 SP males for every female
We attempted to replicate this finding using qpAdm (3), which leverages allele frequency correlations between the admixed (BA) and source (SP, AF, HG) populations with distant outgroups to eliminate potential biases due to genetic drift between the true source populations and the ones used as surrogates for them. Our outgroups are: Mota (5), Ust_Ishim (6), Kostenki14 (7), GoyetQ116-1 (7), Vestonice16 (7), MA1(8), AfontovaGora3 (7), and Levantine Neolithic farmers (9). We ran qpAdm with allsnps: YES and Mota as the basis population. The model fits the data (P=0.072 autosomes, P=0.747 chromosome X). For the BA population, we estimate 61.4±2.9% SP, 31.0±1.2% AF, 7.6±2.9% HG ancestry using all autosomal SNPs and 67.5±17% SP, 26.5±6.9% AF, 6.0±16.4% HG using all X-chromosome SNPs; thus we do not find less SP ancestry on the X-chromosome
To diagnose why we do not replicate the finding of (1), we simulated pseudo-BA individuals with
For the pool of 16 individuals that the authors of (1) estimated had 36.6% ancestry, the error is predicted to be -19.5%, largely eliminating the discrepancy between the X-chromosome estimate of (1) and the autosomal ancestry estimates of ADMIXTURE (1) and qpAdm. These results show that bias in the estimation of admixture proportions, rather than sex bias in the steppe migration, drives the findings of (1).
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What does it all mean? There was no “male only” migration. He stopped short of saying there WAS a migration. In other words if there was a migration it was male and female or neither!!!! The researchers use bias in their mathematical modelling. It is all coming to an end. But there is more money to be made at the expense of science.
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To those who are interested. Here is another paper proving my point. This is a done deal.
1. As I said R1b-M269 has possibly an African origin. 2. They reached as far as Cyprus for the samping of the EASTERN Branch. The WESTERN branch is also found in the island off the coast of Africa. Time they start sampling Africans. Lol! They are in for a shocking surprise 3. The age of European male line is 5000years or LESS 4. The authors are question the DIRECTION of migration even for the Steppes . Did they come from Africa ……eh! Cyprus? 5. A group of Euroepans caught between lying and telling the truth at risk of their career. Tic! Toc!
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Quotes from:
Genetic differentiation between upland and lowland populations shapes the Y‑chromosomal landscape of West Asia - O. Balanovsky 2017
To summarize, the ancient Yamnaya genomes published in (Haak et al. 2015; Mathieson et al. 2015) do not belong to the main Western European branch R-L51, but most do belong to the eastern branch R-GG400, which we identified in present-day East Europeans.
But the genetic pattern within West Asia itself was rarely considered as a subject of research in its own right, though recent autosomal data on ancient DNA have revealed the extreme variation between different areas of West Asia in pre-Neolithic and Neolithic times (Lazaridis et al. 2016; Broushaki et al. 2016).
Here, we present data on the Y-chromosomal variation in seven West Asian populations and compiled the most up-todate dataset of Y-chromosomal variation in the region.
Diaspora groups with the gene pool in the homeland Armenia. In view of the possible contribution of the Armenian plateau populations to the gene pool of the steppe Yamnaya culture and subsequent migration to West Europe, we sequenced a large portion of the Y-chromosome in haplogroup R1b samples and placed the ancient Yamnaya samples onto the emerging phylogenetic tree.
The resulting phylogenetic tree (Fig. 4a) demonstrates that haplogroup R-L23 splits into two main branches, R-L51 and R-GG400. The former includes West Europeans, while the latter comprises **exclusively** representatives of East European populations. Both branches are of similar age: around 6 thousand years (Fig. 4a). Note that members of this eastern branch R-GG400 came mainly from the steppe area of East Europe.
One may conclude that all the Yamnaya genomes analyzed here do not belong to the western branch. The alternative possibility that they belong to the eastern branch is directly supported for at least five samples.
Yamnaya subpopulations studied to date), the question arises of whether Yamnaya Y-chromosomes also originated from West Asia xyyman comment- African? West Asia is Levant or Africa. loL!
So, here, we wish to underscore that this eastern branch R-GG400 is of equal phylogenetic level and similar age to the branch R-L51, but has a contrasting geographic distribution. The distribution of the western R-L51 branch is well known: it comprises more than half of the West European paternal pool
The frequency of this eastern branch has so far been estimated only in a few populations: it comprises 5% in Greeks from Cyprus (Voskarides et al. 2016), 0–5% in different Georgian and 2–20% in different Armenian populations (this study). Large-scale population genotyping surveys have yet to be reported to reconstruct the phylogeography of R-GG400 and its subbranches in detail.
The currently available dataset does not contradict the hypothesis that R-GG400 marks a link between the East European steppe dwellers and West Asians, though the route and ***even ***direction of this migration is disputable.
xyyman comment – they know the truth but would not say.
Yamnaya populations analyzed in (Haak et al. 2015; Mathieson et al. 2015) and raises the question of their origin. A Bronze Age origin is more likely than a Neolithic one (Balaresque et al. 2010), but further ancient DNA studies may be necessary to identify this source.
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To those who don’t understand what they are premising. It is quite possible the “Steppe” genetic material did not come from the Steppes of Asia but Cyprus…eh! Africa! Fear of the rabid European?! But they have already done the analysis that is why they are questioning the “direction” of migration. Tsk! Tsk! Come on Lazaridis …don’t be a coward. You have come this far. Remember in his second paper he said there was a North-South cline and NOT an South-East- North West Cline for the Neolithics. Then his last paper he suggested Natufians are NOT ancestral to Europeans and the ancient Sardinians are closer to Africans. Don’t stop now bro. He is giving us bits and pieces of clues.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: To those who don’t understand what they are premising. It is quite possible the “Steppe” genetic material did not come from the Steppes of Asia but Cyprus…eh! Africa! Fear of the rabid European?! But they have already done the analysis that is why they are questioning the “direction” of migration. Tsk! Tsk! Come on Lazaridis …don’t be a coward. You have come this far. Remember in his second paper he said there was a North-South cline and NOT an South-East- North West Cline for the Neolithics. Then his last paper he suggested Natufians are NOT ancestral to Europeans and the ancient Sardinians are closer to Africans. Don’t stop now bro. He is giving us bits and pieces of clues.
He may tell the truth, because he is not a "trained" geneticist, but he is part of the Academe. As a new member of the Academe, he will probably tow the line, because you and I are waiting to publicize the truth when he tells it.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: To those who don’t understand what they are premising. It is quite possible the “Steppe” genetic material did not come from the Steppes of Asia but Cyprus…eh! Africa! Fear of the rabid European?! But they have already done the analysis that is why they are questioning the “direction” of migration. Tsk! Tsk! Come on Lazaridis …don’t be a coward. You have come this far. Remember in his second paper he said there was a North-South cline and NOT an South-East- North West Cline for the Neolithics. Then his last paper he suggested Natufians are NOT ancestral to Europeans and the ancient Sardinians are closer to Africans. Don’t stop now bro. He is giving us bits and pieces of clues.
He may tell the truth, because he is not a "trained" geneticist, but he is part of the Academe. As a new member of the Academe, he will probably tow the line, because you and I are waiting to publicize the truth when he tells it.
.
So you agree with xyyman that modern Europeans are not descendants of Central Asians but are instead depigmented Africans who went into Europe less than 10,000 years ago
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: To those who don’t understand what they are premising. It is quite possible the “Steppe” genetic material did not come from the Steppes of Asia but Cyprus…eh! Africa! Fear of the rabid European?! But they have already done the analysis that is why they are questioning the “direction” of migration. Tsk! Tsk! Come on Lazaridis …don’t be a coward. You have come this far. Remember in his second paper he said there was a North-South cline and NOT an South-East- North West Cline for the Neolithics. Then his last paper he suggested Natufians are NOT ancestral to Europeans and the ancient Sardinians are closer to Africans. Don’t stop now bro. He is giving us bits and pieces of clues.
He may tell the truth, because he is not a "trained" geneticist, but he is part of the Academe. As a new member of the Academe, he will probably tow the line, because you and I are waiting to publicize the truth when he tells it.
.
So you agree with xyyman that modern Europeans are not descendants of Central Asians but are instead depigmented Africans who went into Europe less than 10,000 years ago
No they were dark shinned africans.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: To those who don’t understand what they are premising. It is quite possible the “Steppe” genetic material did not come from the Steppes of Asia but Cyprus…eh! Africa! Fear of the rabid European?! But they have already done the analysis that is why they are questioning the “direction” of migration. Tsk! Tsk! Come on Lazaridis …don’t be a coward. You have come this far. Remember in his second paper he said there was a North-South cline and NOT an South-East- North West Cline for the Neolithics. Then his last paper he suggested Natufians are NOT ancestral to Europeans and the ancient Sardinians are closer to Africans. Don’t stop now bro. He is giving us bits and pieces of clues.
He may tell the truth, because he is not a "trained" geneticist, but he is part of the Academe. As a new member of the Academe, he will probably tow the line, because you and I are waiting to publicize the truth when he tells it.
.
So you agree with xyyman that modern Europeans are not descendants of Central Asians but are instead depigmented Africans who went into Europe less than 10,000 years ago
No they were dark skinned africans.
Yes. I should have said "So you agree with xyyman that modern Europeans are not descendants of Central Asians but are instead descendants of dark skinned Africans who went into Europe less than 10,000 years ago."
you point is that they went in dark skinned.
So this means modern Europeans are relatively recently out of Africa. It's other populations, not Europeans, who have ancestors who have been out of Africa, 40-60K or even 100K +.
This means modern much Europeans are more genetically related to Africans, then are other people like Australian Aboriginees, Oceanians etc
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: To those who don’t understand what they are premising. It is quite possible the “Steppe” genetic material did not come from the Steppes of Asia but Cyprus…eh! Africa! Fear of the rabid European?! But they have already done the analysis that is why they are questioning the “direction” of migration. Tsk! Tsk! Come on Lazaridis …don’t be a coward. You have come this far. Remember in his second paper he said there was a North-South cline and NOT an South-East- North West Cline for the Neolithics. Then his last paper he suggested Natufians are NOT ancestral to Europeans and the ancient Sardinians are closer to Africans. Don’t stop now bro. He is giving us bits and pieces of clues.
He may tell the truth, because he is not a "trained" geneticist, but he is part of the Academe. As a new member of the Academe, he will probably tow the line, because you and I are waiting to publicize the truth when he tells it.
.
So you agree with xyyman that modern Europeans are not descendants of Central Asians but are instead depigmented Africans who went into Europe less than 10,000 years ago
No they were dark skinned africans.
Yes. I should have said "So you agree with xyyman that modern Europeans are not descendants of Central Asians but are instead descendants of dark skinned Africans who went into Europe less than 10,000 years ago."
you point is that they went in dark skinned.
So this means modern Europeans are relatively recently out of Africa. It's other populations, not Europeans, who have ancestors who have been out of Africa, 40-60K or even 100K +.
This means modern much Europeans are more genetically related to Africans, then are other people like Australian Aboriginees, Oceanians etc
No. The original Europeans were Khoisan. They went into the caves and turned white through depigmentation. As a result, whites are not recently out of Africa their ancestors go back to the Khoisan who first settled Europe.
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during the Ice Age and soon afterwards there was no sea Barrier.
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@ El Maestro and others I am cracking some skulls at Davidski. Lol! Just as I thought, they are clueless also. BUT! Forced to do one piece of research, I found my smoking gun. There is always a silver lining.
One argument was Villabruna man( >10,000yo) carried R1b. After digging. I found out that guess what. He was black skin and had North African body proportion. Lol! I can't make this stuff up!
Quote: " ---- The Late Upper Paleolithic skeleton Villabruna 1 (Italy): a source of data on biology and behavior of a 14.000 year-old hunter -Giuseppe Vercellotti1
Summary - The Late Upper Paleolithic burial Villabruna 1 (Val Cismon, Belluno, Italy), directly dated to about 14,000 years ago (calibrated chronology), includes a well preserved skeleton accompanied by grave goods and covered with painted stones. The skeleton belongs to an adult male, about twenty-five years old, characterized by a relatively tall stature for the time period, ***short trunk and more linear body proportions than its contemporaries, similar to those of recent North-African populations****. Multivariate statistical analysis of craniofacial characteristics place Villabruna 1 close to Le Bichon 1, a geographically and chronologically nearby specimen, suggesting genetic affinity among the last hunter and gatherers from the alpine region."
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It has always been know that the first hunter-gatherers of Europe were SSAs. Now we can declare that the carriers of haplogroup R1, that introduced the European agro-pastoral cultures to Europe, i.e., Bell Beaker and Yamnaya were probably also SSAs because they carried V88.
This should not be surprising because the Bell Beaker culture probably began in Morocco.
Toomas Kivisild1 (2017).The study of human Y chromosome variation through ancient DNA. web page provides a detailed discussion of R1 in prehistoric Europe.
Kivisild (2017) also made it clear that V88 is the earliest offshoot of R-M343 .
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The presence of V88 in Europe indicates that the Yamnaya and Bell Beaker people who carried R1 were mainly SSA. It indicates that the Bell Beaker people who entered Europe from Morocco via Iberia were carriers of V88.
The genetic evidence makes it clear that the Basal Eurasians that are mixed into modern Europeans, who came from the Middle East, and North Africa were SSA's not Indo-European speakers.
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The TMRCA of V88 was 9200 (Cruciani et al, 2010). Kivisild et al 2017 appears to date V88 to around 18,000 kya according to Figure 7.Toomas Kivisild (2017).The study of human Y chromosome variation through ancient DNA. web page
The article is interesting. It is most interesting because it places V88 in ancient Europe. Kivisild (2017) also made it clear that V88 is the earliest offshoot of R-M343 .
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I'm going to explain how to properly read this chart because Clyde has a version up to small to read At top is the full chart. Then we have a detail of the left portion of the chart. That potion uses the color red to show branches of R that correspond to locations in Europe.
The next chart is the enlarged left portion of the top chart showing the locations on a map of Europe.
At the bottom is the right portion of the top chart. Where it says R1b there is a split, the branch at left is P297.
The branch at right has four red colored European branches of R1b. These are not R-V88 but instead distant relatives
V88 is the black branch at far right only. It the earliest offshoot of R1b but it is not the ancestor of it's distant relatives indicated by the red lines.
The descendants of V88 would be under the black line extending down from V88 but not shown on this chart the sub clades M18, V35 and V69. As referenced in the article, all of the primary DNA analysis regarding V88 in the above Kivisild 2017 comes from
Human Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88: a paternal genetic record of early mid Holocene trans-Saharan connections and the spread of Chadic languages.
Cruciani 2010
Clyde wants to detach the information from it's source so he can spin and slant the information for use as propaganda
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This was posted on Davidski. I am now banned there also. Seems he has a problem with the truth. Not to incite I decided just to quote sections of studies WITHOUT my personal views. He started deleting those also. Now I am banned.
------------- I thought as a European you wanted to know your genetic history. I am citing and referring to published SCIENTIFIC papers and you keep deleting it..
"you don't understand the scientific papers you're quoting, and you're misrepresenting them" .
Are you trying to convince yourself of what you just said or do you really believe that nonsense that came out your mouth?
NO ONE!!! On this forum can debunk what I just said with scientific proof. NONE!! Lie to yourself. One of your better knowledgeable posters just learnt from me that morphologically Villabruna was tropically adapted with closes match to Africa. You guys have been talking Villabruna for how long....lol! You are not on my level David.
I have 100's of research papers in my arsenal. No one on your site can challenge me on these issues.. none!
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Quote by Gioello @ Simon_W Simon, I don't reply to a moron like xyyman who says that Etruscan is linked to Berber. If he/she is an Aegyptian, also if he were a Copt, has no idea of Berber and less of Etruscan, but to you I may say much: 1) Jewish conspiracy? If you add also xyyman you may say a "Jewish -Nigger conspiracy" as I foresaw in the past.
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Of course the Nuragic and Etruscans are Amazigh Africans. When I started my research about 10 years ago I knew nothing about Nuragic and Etruscan. But I understood Geography very well. And one thing that struck me was how remarkably close Nuragic Sardinia, Etruscan and Africa was. Then I learned ancient Malta had a similar culture. Clearly this was not a coincidence . What puzzled me(started me asking) was why would the Etruscans(from Anatolia as was taught) build a civilization on the "WESTERN" side of the Italian peninsular. It made no Geographic sense. None! Then I understood what was " very similar and to the "West" of Etruscans lands. Then a few miles south west is Carthage in Africa. Then Iberia! I was like wow! What do they " ALL" have in common? All are a few miles from African mainland but geographically VERY distant(as much as 1000mile) from each other. What do we have here? Clearly these were the same people migrating Eastwards and outwards. Also how remarkably close these cultures were to each other AND Ancient Egypt. Then I read Sergio's the Medit Race. And I was blown away. It made so much sense. Then the aDNA started coming out. Me having a strong science background also, caught on. I was floored to see the precise correlation of genetics and what scientist like Sergio and Evans proclaimed.
It doesn't matter how it is spun. The truth is too obvious. Europeans are depigmented Africans. It doesn't matter how much you self-denial there is. And the illusion some want to create. It is undeniable. Any objective logic thinking person will realize the truth. Continue lying to yourselves.
----- The papers are: 1.Origins and Evolution of the Etruscans’ mtDNA(2013) - David Caramelli4, Guido Barbujani 2.The Etruscans: a population-genetic study.(2004) - Caramelli D and Barbujani. 3.Minoan/Crete Origin(2013) George Stamatoyannopoulos
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This is from the 2004 paper by Caramelli and Barbujani(2004), TABLE:
This is from the recent 2013 study on Etruscans, quote::
We could obtain amplifiable DNA from 14 Etruscan specimens. Four of them, from Tarquinia, were analyzed in 2004 but were still unpublished.
Comparisons with 52 modern populations in the TUS and EUR datasets (listed in Table S2) show that 11 of these sequences are shared with at least one of 4,910 individuals from Western Eurasia and the Southern Mediterranean shore (Africa!!!!!)(Table S1). …..
This from the Minoans study 2013 George Stamatoyannopoulos
Supplementary Figure S2. Geographical interpolation of shared mtDNA HVS-1 lineages. The blue gradient represents the percentage of shared lineages for Minoan haplotypes.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: This was posted on Davidski. I am now banned there also. Seems he has a problem with the truth. Not to incite I decided just to quote sections of studies WITHOUT my personal views. He started deleting those also. Now I am banned.
------------- I thought as a European you wanted to know your genetic history. I am citing and referring to published SCIENTIFIC papers and you keep deleting it..
"you don't understand the scientific papers you're quoting, and you're misrepresenting them" .
Are you trying to convince yourself of what you just said or do you really believe that nonsense that came out your mouth?
NO ONE!!! On this forum can debunk what I just said with scientific proof. NONE!! Lie to yourself. One of your better knowledgeable posters just learnt from me that morphologically Villabruna was tropically adapted with closes match to Africa. You guys have been talking Villabruna for how long....lol! You are not on my level David.
I have 100's of research papers in my arsenal. No one on your site can challenge me on these issues.. none!
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Quote by Gioello @ Simon_W Simon, I don't reply to a moron like xyyman who says that Etruscan is linked to Berber. If he/she is an Aegyptian, also if he were a Copt, has no idea of Berber and less of Etruscan, but to you I may say much: 1) Jewish conspiracy? If you add also xyyman you may say a "Jewish -Nigger conspiracy" as I foresaw in the past.
----
Of course the Nuragic and Etruscans are Amazigh Africans. When I started my research about 10 years ago I knew nothing about Nuragic and Etruscan. But I understood Geography very well. And one thing that struck me was how remarkably close Nuragic Sardinia, Etruscan and Africa was. Then I learned ancient Malta had a similar culture. Clearly this was not a coincidence . What puzzled me(started me asking) was why would the Etruscans(from Anatolia as was taught) build a civilization on the "WESTERN" side of the Italian peninsular. It made no Geographic sense. None! Then I understood what was " very similar and to the "West" of Etruscans lands. Then a few miles south west is Carthage in Africa. Then Iberia! I was like wow! What do they " ALL" have in common? All are a few miles from African mainland but geographically VERY distant(as much as 1000mile) from each other. What do we have here? Clearly these were the same people migrating Eastwards and outwards. Also how remarkably close these cultures were to each other AND Ancient Egypt. Then I read Sergio's the Medit Race. And I was blown away. It made so much sense. Then the aDNA started coming out. Me having a strong science background also, caught on. I was floored to see the precise correlation of genetics and what scientist like Sergio and Evans proclaimed.
It doesn't matter how it is spun. The truth is too obvious. Europeans are depigmented Africans. It doesn't matter how much you self-denial there is. And the illusion some want to create. It is undeniable. Any objective logic thinking person will realize the truth. Continue lying to yourselves.
----- The papers are: 1.Origins and Evolution of the Etruscans’ mtDNA(2013) - David Caramelli4, Guido Barbujani 2.The Etruscans: a population-genetic study.(2004) - Caramelli D and Barbujani. 3.Minoan/Crete Origin(2013) George Stamatoyannopoulos
>>>>>>>
This is from the 2004 paper by Caramelli and Barbujani(2004), TABLE:
This is from the recent 2013 study on Etruscans, quote::
We could obtain amplifiable DNA from 14 Etruscan specimens. Four of them, from Tarquinia, were analyzed in 2004 but were still unpublished.
Comparisons with 52 modern populations in the TUS and EUR datasets (listed in Table S2) show that 11 of these sequences are shared with at least one of 4,910 individuals from Western Eurasia and the Southern Mediterranean shore (Africa!!!!!)(Table S1). …..
This from the Minoans study 2013 George Stamatoyannopoulos
Supplementary Figure S2. Geographical interpolation of shared mtDNA HVS-1 lineages. The blue gradient represents the percentage of shared lineages for Minoan haplotypes.
This is not surprising. Back in the 1990's I would be banned from linguistic and anthropology forums when I was winning an argument. This is why we love ES and will miss it when its gone. Every good thing eventually comes to an end.
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