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Was Arnaiz-Villena an Afro-centric of true scientist
Greeks and Sub-Saharans Arnaiz-Villena et al. published five scientific articles, where, among other claims, they concluded that the Greek population originates from Sub-Saharan Africa and do not cluster with other Mediterraneans.[7][13][14][15][16] The explanation they offered is that a large number of Sub-Saharans had migrated to Greece (but not to Crete) during Minoan times,[7][13][14][15] i.e. predating both Classical and Mycenaean Greece. Those conclusions were related to the "Black Athena" debate and became embroiled in disputes between Greek and ethnic Macedonian nationalists.[17]
Hajjej et al. claimed to have confirmed the genetic relatedness between Greeks and Sub-Saharans.[19][20] However they used the same methodology (same gene markers) and same data samples like Arnaiz-Villena et al.[7][14][19][20]
Fringe linguistic theories Arnaiz-Villena and Jorge Alonso-Garcia claim to have used Basque to decipher many of the ancient languages of the Mediterranean and Middle East which are known to be unrelated to Basque,[36][37] including Egyptian, Hittite, Sumerian, Hurrian, Ugaritic, Akkadian/Babylonian, Elamite, and Phoenician, all of which they claim have been misidentified and mistranslated by the world's linguists and epigraphers for a century. They characterize mainstream research as "science fiction stories".[38] Arnaiz-Villena's Egyptian translations, for example, include the cartouche of the bilingual Rosseta Stone in which Champollion identified the name of Ptolemy; in Arnaiz-Villena's interpretation it does ***NOT*** include that name, so that it is actually Arnaiz-Villena who deserves credit for deciphering the hieroglyphs.[39] Similarly, in Arnaiz-Villena's interpretation the Code of Hammurabi contains "no hint of laws" but is a Basque funerary text,[40] and his purported Basque material proper includes the Iruña-Veleia graffiti, which had been identified as modern forgeries by a multidisciplinary team[41] half a year before his decipherment was published.[42] They also claim to be able to read poorly attested languages such as Etruscan, Iberian, Tartessian, Guanche, and Minoan, which no-one else has been able to decipher with any certainty. They posit that these are all part of a "Usko-Mediterranean" branch[43] of the speculative Dené–Caucasian language family, which they extend to include the Berber languages of North Africa.[15][44][45][46] This thesis flatly contradicts basic Egyptological, Sumerian, Semitic, Indo-European, and Mesoamerican scholarship. Phoenician, Akkadian/Babylonian, Ugaritic, and Eblaite, for example, are transparently Semitic languages, and Arnaiz-Villena excludes the rest of the Semitic languages from his family; Egyptian and Berber along with Semitic have been demonstrated to be Afro-Asiatic, and generations of linguists have been unable to find a connection between Berber and Basque or Afro-Asiatic and Basque; and Hittite is widely acclaimed as a key in the reconstruction of Proto-Indo-European, which Arnaiz-Villena acknowledges is completely unrelated to Basque.Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote: "Champollion identified the name of Ptolemy; in Arnaiz-Villena's interpretation it does ***NOT*** include that name, " tic! toc!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Did the Greek really occupy AE. Notice also in the new paper on AE the author states he cannot differentiate middle kingdom AE and ANCIENT Europeans. Didn't I say so. There is no genetic evidence of modern Europeans/Greeks occupying ancient Egypt unless the ancient Greeks were Africans/North also.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: There is no genetic evidence of modern Europeans/Greeks occupying ancient Egypt unless the ancient Greeks were Africans/North also.
That's correct, Europeans are depigmented Africans therefore you can't distinguish their presence in ancient Egypt genetically. You would have to look at other factors like Ptolemaic inscriptions and art. Most Europeans are depigmented Saharans as genetics show but as we have seen in the new conference report, there was a later increase of SSA in ancient Egypt. That's the evidence of the Greeks right there, they are genetically sub sub-saharan as Arnaiz-Villena showed.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Arnaiz-Villena is a great scholar. He got in trouble as a result writing about the origin of the wrong people, who did not like his results. The only problem with Arnaiz-Villena is that he accurately reports the results of his research.
I can't comment on his linguistic research because I don't know Basque.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Are you missing the point? The symposium labeled mtDNA-L as the ONLY SSA haplgroup...which we know is incorrect. Most of the haplgroups identified from the screen shots is African. There was NO mtDNA H1 and H3. Meaning the AEians were NOT West Europeans and not even Berbers. According to Davidski he said the Ttitle of the paper is based upon SNP markers....using HIGH Frequency which we know is erroneous. IBD shows the same pattern. The SNP pathern is consistent with what I have been saying all along. These researchers cannot play the mind-games and play on words with me. I am not fooled. They should re-title the paper "absolute no European ancestry and Maghrebian ancestry in Ancient Egyptians of the middle kingdom".
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:There is no genetic evidence of modern Europeans/Greeks occupying ancient Egypt
Finally we agree on something, but I would say their genetic impact was miminal, rather than absolutely nothing. As Brace et al. 1993 says, the ancient Egyptians "absorbed its various Assyrian, Persian, and Greek rulers with barely detectable effects on its basically Egyptian identity."
Posts: 949 | From: England | Registered: Oct 2015
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quote:There is no genetic evidence of modern Europeans/Greeks occupying ancient Egypt
Finally we agree on something, but I would say their genetic impact was miminal, rather than absolutely nothing. As Brace et al. 1993 says, the ancient Egyptians "absorbed its various Assyrian, Persian, and Greek rulers with barely detectable effects on its basically Egyptian identity."
You are not getting it. xyyman says Europeans/Greeks are depigmented Africans and he has been saying it for years. Therefore there would be no genetic impact to observe
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:There is no genetic evidence of modern Europeans/Greeks occupying ancient Egypt
Finally we agree on something, but I would say their genetic impact was miminal, rather than absolutely nothing. As Brace et al. 1993 says, the ancient Egyptians "absorbed its various Assyrian, Persian, and Greek rulers with barely detectable effects on its basically Egyptian identity."
Nice.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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HLA Antigens in a Sample of the Spanish Population: Common Features Among Spaniards, Basques, and Sardinians -
Abstract Frequencies of recently described HLA-A,-B (antigens or splits) and HLA-C and HLA-DR antigens are studied in a 450 normal Spaniards sample. The **linkage disequilibria** are also calculated. HLA-DR7 is more frequent than in any other population studied. Aw30-B18 and Aw33-B14 associations are common and specific Spanish, Basque, and Sardinian HLA features. A11-B17 association is found in our Spanish sample and also in Basques. HLA-Bw4,-Bw6 antigens are analyzed by family mating and segregation and also using unrelated individuals. It shows a good fit as a genetic system. HLA-B antigens are included either in Bw4 or Bw6 according to expectations from other Caucasoid population results. The possibility of a common and North African origin (Iberians) for Spaniards, Basques, and Sardinians is discussed on the basis of presently available HLA data.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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His stuff back in the day was very progressive and ahead of its time. At least to me. I do wonder IF this is still relevant.
quote:HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached: 1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt
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