quote:Originally posted by Andromeda2025: @blessedbyhorus
Thanks, I never said that AA's genetically majority Sahelian, but AA's culture is Sahelian dominant and different from Afro Carribbean/ Afro Latin.. As a person who is both AA & AC having one parent from each culture I can tell you this from DIRECT experience.
"It is estimated that over 50% of the slaves imported to North America came from areas where Islam was followed by at least a minority population. Thus, no less than 200,000 came from regions influenced by Islam. Substantial numbers originated from Senegambia, a region with an established community of Muslim inhabitants extending to the 11th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States"
"Most African-American music isn't polyrhythm heavy like that which is found in among other people in the African diaspora, but mostly derived from the solo, string and wind based, heavily muslim influenced styles of Upper West Africa Sudanic/Sahelian region. More slaves came from this region in Africa to North American than any other place in the New World, due to the cotton, rice, and cattle culture and the land scape of North America. Thus slaves from this specific region in Africa were said to be more fit for the type of labor to be done in North America"
"A lot of people tend to have this ignorant misconception that just because there's not a heavy percussion based polyrhythmic aspect in North American African-American music, that it's not African, but European influenced, which isn't true in the slightest. Africa is a HUGE continent, in which there's not only one type of music cluster or style. The majority of our musical influences comes from the Upper West African Sahel & Sudanic savanna regions of Africa which utilizes a lot more simplistic cross-beat rhythm(which gives American music it's swing-feel) to accentuate the highly melosmatic wind and string instruments with a booming vocal/instrument harmony- All aspects of African-American music. While Afro-Cubans take the majority of their influence from Lower West African and Central African bantu music which IS very polyrhythmic & percussion based."
PH.d ethnomusicologist Gerhard Kubik, who is himself a European and Moya Aliya Malamusi a continental African, both had this to say about the Mississippi Delta blues(the purest form of blues music).....
"I have had difficulty detecting any significant European musical components in this style, aside from the use of Western factory-manufactured equipment."
Music is only 1 aspect of culture. Sahelian music may have the more dominant influence in AA music but that doesn't necessarily mean it's same for overall AA culture. Afro-caribbean/latin cultures are also different among themselves. The differences in diaspora cultures in the americas seem mostly influenced by who the european colonizer was, geography and various other historical interactions rather than sahelian/non-sahelian origin.
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quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: @Lioness
Both sources I already know about. Thats not the point. The point is that Andromeda2025 said that Sahelian Africans had the most influence on AA culture. Also Central Africans were banned from mainland USA due to them being very rebellious. Which is one reason why their influence didn't last.
I've never heard central africans being banned fro m the US. What's the source for that? In any case many central africans were taken to the mainland. For a time "kongos" were the largest group taken to south carolina and there's lots of central african influences such as putting glass bottles on trees, religion (the crossroads/kalunga concept. Some argue that's from the rice region of africa though), kicking and knocking (which may have been something similiar to capoeira), even the berimbau instrument (don't know what it's called in the US) was played.
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: Brasil and many South American countries received captives from west Central &, southern-Central Africa, not Yoruba. -Bakongos from Angola etc. Primarily Bantu speakers.
True, most of the slaves in s america did come from central Af but a whoooole lot of yorubas were taken to s amercia, especially Brazil. Yoruba religion is all over Brazil and Yoruba cuisine influence is prevalent in the north east.
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: Brasil and many South American countries received captives from west Central &, southern-Central Africa, not Yoruba. -Bakongos from Angola etc. Primarily Bantu speakers.
True, most of the slaves in s america did come from central Af but a whoooole lot of yorubas were taken to s amercia, especially Brazil. Yoruba religion is all over Brazil and Yoruba cuisine influence is prevalent in the north east.
You're right, I actually meant to say most captives in S.America were from Central-west African Bantus. But nonetheless cultures from those regions were/are relatively suppressed in the US are they not? I've heard of knocking and kicking, but haven't really seen it (outside of modern reconstruction). Come to think of it, didn't Gullah people from the south carry a peculiar form of Islamic culture to the US?
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: Brasil and many South American countries received captives from west Central &, southern-Central Africa, not Yoruba. -Bakongos from Angola etc. Primarily Bantu speakers.
True, most of the slaves in s america did come from central Af but a whoooole lot of yorubas were taken to s amercia, especially Brazil. Yoruba religion is all over Brazil and Yoruba cuisine influence is prevalent in the north east.
You're right, I actually meant to say most captives in S.America were from Central-west African Bantus. But nonetheless cultures from those regions were/are relatively suppressed in the US are they not? I've heard of knocking and kicking, but haven't really seen it (outside of modern reconstruction). Come to think of it, didn't Gullah people from the south carry a peculiar form of Islamic culture to the US?
The African slaves belonged to the Maliki fiqh.
If you are interested in slavery and Islam in these areas Check out the following papers:
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: Brasil and many South American countries received captives from west Central &, southern-Central Africa, not Yoruba. -Bakongos from Angola etc. Primarily Bantu speakers.
True, most of the slaves in s america did come from central Af but a whoooole lot of yorubas were taken to s amercia, especially Brazil. Yoruba religion is all over Brazil and Yoruba cuisine influence is prevalent in the north east.
You're right, I actually meant to say most captives in S.America were from Central-west African Bantus. But nonetheless cultures from those regions were/are relatively suppressed in the US are they not? I've heard of knocking and kicking, but haven't really seen it (outside of modern reconstruction). Come to think of it, didn't Gullah people from the south carry a peculiar form of Islamic culture to the US?
Gotcha. No, central Af cultures weren't suppressed in the US anymore than those from further north (at least as far as I know). Knocking and kicking is one of the many cultural practices that have died out in the diaspora. Capoeira in brazil might've died out too or come close to it if the fascist Brazilian govt didnt decide to promote it as part of its nationalist push. Even in American music the central Af influence is there. The slide guitar technique, for example, is just a way to make the guitar sound like a central Af instrument (I can't recall the name). Playing that instrument has perhaps died out in the last few decades (i'm not sure). Yea, some of the Gullah were muslims but they're a mix of several african groups. Historians say Gullah is just modified pronunciation of Ngola (Angola). And actually I was shocked to see a video of a ceremony from the Gullah region in which the berimbau from central africa was being played. Many of the central Af cultural traits in the US are detailed in Robert Thompson's book Flash of the Spirit.
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quote:Originally posted by africurious: I've never heard central africans being banned fro m the US. What's the source for that? In any case many central africans were taken to the mainland. For a time "kongos" were the largest group taken to south carolina and there's lots of central african influences such as putting glass bottles on trees, religion (the crossroads/kalunga concept. Some argue that's from the rice region of africa though), kicking and knocking (which may have been something similiar to capoeira), even the berimbau instrument (don't know what it's called in the US) was played. [/QB]
You need to research more on the early slave trade because its common knowledge that importation of slaves from Central Africa were banned early on. Due to them being the most rebellious and especially after the Stono rebellion.
quote:Over the next two years, slave uprisings occurred independently in Georgia and South Carolina, perhaps inspired, as colonial officials believed, by the Stono Rebellion. Conditions of slavery were sufficient cause. Planters decided they had to develop a slave population who were native-born, believing they were more content if they grew up enslaved. Attributing the rebellion to the recently imported Africans, planters decided to cut off the supply and enacted a 10-year moratorium on slave importation through Charleston. After they opened it up to international trade again, they imported slaves from areas other than the Congo-Angolan region.
In addition, the legislature passed the Negro Act of 1740 to tighten controls: it required a ratio of one white to ten blacks on any plantation. It prohibited slaves from growing their own food, assembling in groups, earning money, or learning to read. In the uncertain world of the colony, several of the law's provisions were based on the assumption that whites could effectively judge black character; for instance, whites were empowered to examine blacks who were traveling outside a plantation without passes, and to take action.[10] The legislature also worked to improve conditions in slavery; it established penalties for masters who demanded excessive work or who brutally punished slaves (these provisions were difficult to enforce, as the law did not allow slave testimony against whites.) They also started a school to teach slaves Christian doctrine.
At the same time, the legislature tried to prevent slaves from being manumitted, as the representatives thought that the presence of free blacks in the colony made slaves restless. It required slaveholders to apply to the legislature for permission for each case of manumission, which had formerly been arranged privately. South Carolina kept these restrictions against manumission until slavery was abolished after the American Civil War.
The legislature's action related to manumissions likely reduced the chances that planters would free the mixed-race children born of their (or their sons') liaisons with enslaved women, as they did not want to subject their sexual lives to public scrutiny.[12] Such relationships continued, as documented in numerous sources. For instance, by 1860 the 200 students at Wilberforce University in Ohio, established for blacks, were mostly mixed-race children of wealthy southern planter fathers.
Now named the Stono River Slave Rebellion Site, the Hutchinson's warehouse site where the revolt began was declared a National Historic Landmark in 1974. A South Carolina Historical Marker has also been erected at the site.
The Upper West African influence clearly overtoke the Central African one as drums were banned. Upper Sahelian West Africans not only influenced music but also food(rice, Guinean fowl,Virginia peanut soup,etc), architecture(look at New Orleans), language(Gullah), among many other things.
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posted
Also the word "Gullah" most likely comes from the people "Gola" from Liberia-Sierra Leone.
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quote:Originally posted by africurious: I've never heard central africans being banned fro m the US. What's the source for that? In any case many central africans were taken to the mainland. For a time "kongos" were the largest group taken to south carolina and there's lots of central african influences such as putting glass bottles on trees, religion (the crossroads/kalunga concept. Some argue that's from the rice region of africa though), kicking and knocking (which may have been something similiar to capoeira), even the berimbau instrument (don't know what it's called in the US) was played.
You need to research more on the early slave trade because its common knowledge that importation of slaves from Central Africa were banned early on. Due to them being the most rebellious and especially after the Stono rebellion.
quote:Over the next two years, slave uprisings occurred independently in Georgia and South Carolina, perhaps inspired, as colonial officials believed, by the Stono Rebellion. Conditions of slavery were sufficient cause. Planters decided they had to develop a slave population who were native-born, believing they were more content if they grew up enslaved. Attributing the rebellion to the recently imported Africans, planters decided to cut off the supply and enacted a 10-year moratorium on slave importation through Charleston. After they opened it up to international trade again, they imported slaves from areas other than the Congo-Angolan region.
In addition, the legislature passed the Negro Act of 1740 to tighten controls: it required a ratio of one white to ten blacks on any plantation. It prohibited slaves from growing their own food, assembling in groups, earning money, or learning to read. In the uncertain world of the colony, several of the law's provisions were based on the assumption that whites could effectively judge black character; for instance, whites were empowered to examine blacks who were traveling outside a plantation without passes, and to take action.[10] The legislature also worked to improve conditions in slavery; it established penalties for masters who demanded excessive work or who brutally punished slaves (these provisions were difficult to enforce, as the law did not allow slave testimony against whites.) They also started a school to teach slaves Christian doctrine.
At the same time, the legislature tried to prevent slaves from being manumitted, as the representatives thought that the presence of free blacks in the colony made slaves restless. It required slaveholders to apply to the legislature for permission for each case of manumission, which had formerly been arranged privately. South Carolina kept these restrictions against manumission until slavery was abolished after the American Civil War.
The legislature's action related to manumissions likely reduced the chances that planters would free the mixed-race children born of their (or their sons') liaisons with enslaved women, as they did not want to subject their sexual lives to public scrutiny.[12] Such relationships continued, as documented in numerous sources. For instance, by 1860 the 200 students at Wilberforce University in Ohio, established for blacks, were mostly mixed-race children of wealthy southern planter fathers.
Now named the Stono River Slave Rebellion Site, the Hutchinson's warehouse site where the revolt began was declared a National Historic Landmark in 1974. A South Carolina Historical Marker has also been erected at the site.
The Upper West African influence clearly overtoke the Central African one as drums were banned. Upper Sahelian West Africans not only influenced music but also food(rice, Guinean fowl,Virginia peanut soup,etc), architecture(look at New Orleans), language(Gullah), among many other things. [/QB]
I asked for the source out of curiosity not to imply that you made up the ban. We're here to discuss/learn, no? It'd be interesting to know how faithfully they kept to that ban. I thought I'd read once that a guy imported slaves from central Af in the early 1800s to show that the general slave importation ban in the US was a farce. Also, another thing to note is that Louisiana was free to import central Afs as it wasn't under US rule during the legal slave trade. Many central Afs were brought there and the word "Congo" became almost another word for african giving us the famous Congo Square in new orleans.
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quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: Also the word "Gullah" most likely comes from the people "Gola" from Liberia-Sierra Leone.
Oh yes I now remember I'd read that too. But the "ngola" derivation has also been made by historians. Scholars don't always agree. I don't have an opinion of which derivation has the stronger case. It may be "Gola" as you say.
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My bad. Anyways, I am aware of New Orleans Central American population and Congo square. But still that does not prove anything because right before the Haitian revolution ended(1803), the French sold Louisiana to the USA.
Do you have a source for that guy? Because he seems like he was doing it illegally(which did happen and that ban seemed banning importation of all slaves), however they still preferred West Africans over Central Africans due to them not being as rebellious.
Either way Congo Square was just one location. The ban of Central Americans is evident in African-American admixture because the non-Central African admixture is more predominate from the many studies I've seen.
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quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: @lioness knock it off. He's saying that Sahelian slaves were the more preferred slaves early on. This is TRUE if you actually study slavery in America. My family members on my mothers side are Carolinians and they all said slaves from that part of Africa were preferred because they were skilled in rice cultivation.
AA culture is Sahelian base which is why it is NOT drum heavy. This is known. However this does not mean AA people are mainly Sahelian. Afro-Brazilian culture is MAINLY Yoruba but they genetically are not mainly Yoruba.
More importantly he explained himself further in his recent post.
@Andromeda2025
Good post. I have used those sources many times to point out the Sahelian influence on early AA culture.
True,
quote:Enslaved women were more important than enslaved men because women were the primary farmers in agricultural societies and because enslaved women’s reproductive labor added new members to their masters’ kinship or lineage groups. In a number of precolonial societies, enslaved parents’ children were born free..
B.E: What do we hear when we compare Piedmont to Delta blues?
G.K: By some coincidence, Delta blues has processed a stronger shot of traits from the West African savanna and sahel zone than other blues styles, Texas, Piedmont, etc. Delta blues music has a high incidence of Arabic-Islamic style characteristics, which came to the United States with people deported from Mali, Niger, Mauritania, and other places in the 18th century. A problem with such comparisons, however, is that our basic recorded blues sampled just cover the 1920s to the 1940s, and our West African savanna recordings sample only begins more or less in the 1950s. We don’t really know what was there before, so our conclusions are all based on influences, assuming that certain characteristics of style such as melisma, declamatory vocal practice, total patterns, etc., would tend to be resistant to change.
I notice my Doxie dedication thread has been removed, for some odd reason. In it I had information on the history of the Banjo. The Banjo in one of the most important instrument(-s) in the history of enslaved Africans, into modern Tran-Atlantic musical styles.
Like in linguistics we can trace the origin of keynotes and chord progression.
quote: The African influence in the blues is undeniable. The poetic structure of many of the verses is similar to the Western African tradition of AAB poetry. The story like verses carries on the oral tradition of African cultures. As DjeDje points out in her article, many of the cultures of Africa made, and performed on instruments similar to what would be found in the Americas. Instruments like the balafon (xylophone), lute, drums, aerophones and fiddle like instruments would make the assimilation of this new music more transitional. Other performance practices are undeniably African as well. The earliest ‘blues’ music can be heard in the call and response type music known as field hollers. Slaves would communicate and ease the doldrums of their labor through improvised call and response songs. As these songs were sung during work they were often unaccompanied and completely original in their content. “On Southern plantations, the roots of gospel and blues were introduced in work songs and "field hollers" based on the musical forms and rhythms of Africa. Through singing, call and response, and hollering, slaves coordinated their labor, communicated with one another across adjacent fields, bolstered weary spirits, and commented on the oppressiveness of their masters.”[1] Scoops and bent notes are reminiscent of the quarter tone scale common in African music. The refusal to center fully on a pitch is common in blues music, as the performer instead begins above or below the note. This refusal or uncertainty about tonal center can be seen as a refusal of African musicians to fully conform to the European tradition they were forced into in the new America. The lowered pitches of the blues scale are also closely related to the African quarter tone scale. The flatted 3rd and 7th are uncommon in the European tradition and add an element that is completely unique to the music. Other performance practices, like playing the guitar with a knife blade or playing the banjo with a bottleneck would likely produce sounds similar to those produced from African instruments.
However, the blues are not solely defined by African customs and traditions. The melding of cultures together makes it impossible to ignore some common musical practices of the European tradition. The blues is centered around a strong harmonic progression, that comes directly from traditional European counterpoint. The use of the I (tonic), IV (subdominant) and V (dominant) is directly related to the fact that African musicians would have been exposed to these new sounds. The masters often expected the musicians to perform at ceremonies and gatherings for the white cultures, and playing in the European tradition wasn’t just expected it was demanded. The ability to learn this new style of music, only demonstrates how capable these new musicians really were. Also, the reliance on form is not just a European tradition, but one that is certainly stressed in the European study of music. The strict and simple time meter is a musical element that was taken from this new style of music as well.
The Mississippi tradition of the blues is characterized by embellished and bent notes. “Black men and women sang about themselves, played guitar with a knife blade, or blurred, embellished or bent notes when singing.”[2] The blues are believed to have begun in Mississippi, perhaps in a levee camp or logging camp or more likely on a plantation between 1870 and 1890. The tradition that would become the blues would go on to influence several other sub-genres of the blues as well as jazz and rock n roll. Another element of the blues that solidified during the early years in the Mississippi Delta is the 12 bar form that would define this genre of music. From something as atrocious as slavery, a musical genre as beautiful and diverse as blues was born.
The dual influences of cultures and traditions can easily be heard in many songs. For example the piece by Bessie Smith, “Black Mountain Blues,” the vocal smears and the poetic structure of the verse is reminiscent of African elements that were discussed earlier. The repeated vocal line AA followed by the third line B, is holding to the poetic tradition of Western Africa. The ensemble and harmonies are traditions borrowed not only from African tradition, but European tradition as well. The verses of this piece are a story being told, carrying on the tradition of the musician to pass on history orally. Another great example of African musical elements being transformed into a style of music is Robert Johnson’s “Walkin’ Blues.” The “holler” that Johnson uses throughout, the bent notes, scoops and style of playing the guitar are all examples of past traditions being used to form a new genre of music.
quote:Originally posted by africurious: Music is only 1 aspect of culture. Sahelian music may have the more dominant influence in AA music but that doesn't necessarily mean it's same for overall AA culture. Afro-caribbean/latin cultures are also different among themselves. The differences in diaspora cultures in the americas seem mostly influenced by who the european colonizer was, geography and various other historical interactions rather than sahelian/non-sahelian origin.
The main problem here is that language, cultural expression, religion etc was prohibited by LAW.
So logically at several places they formed and adapted new local streams of culture(-s).
I know of pocketbook written somewhere in the early 70's, about a Surinamese delegation who went to Nigeria. The people saw instantaneously cultural similarities, especially in specific music styles (rithmetic drum play)
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: Brasil and many South American countries received captives from west Central &, southern-Central Africa, not Yoruba. -Bakongos from Angola etc. Primarily Bantu speakers.
quote: When groups of people speaking different languages come together and intermix, a common improvised second language, called a pidgin, occasionally develops. It allows speakers of two or more non-intelligible native languages to communicate with each other. Subsequently, such a language can replace the settlers’ original language and become the first language of their descendants. Such languages are called creoles. The difference between pidgins and creoles is that people grow up speaking creoles as their first language, whereas nobody speaks pidgin as their first language. There is no single accepted theory that explains the genesis of creole languages.
[ 21. October 2020, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Elmaestro ]
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in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population,
That is not true.
Yes, it is true.
in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade or at any point, Sahelian slaves where not the dominant population
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: Brasil and many South American countries received captives from west Central &, southern-Central Africa, not Yoruba. -Bakongos from Angola etc. Primarily Bantu speakers.
Nice channel. The question would be, is there a consistent pattern between the Caribbean, Latin America and North America.
quote: When groups of people speaking different languages come together and intermix, a common improvised second language, called a pidgin, occasionally develops. It allows speakers of two or more non-intelligible native languages to communicate with each other. Subsequently, such a language can replace the settlers’ original language and become the first language of their descendants. Such languages are called creoles. The difference between pidgins and creoles is that people grow up speaking creoles as their first language, whereas nobody speaks pidgin as their first language. There is no single accepted theory that explains the genesis of creole languages.
Interms of where in Africa people were brought from? I'd like to believe not based on what I've learned, the only thing that's consistent is the mixing whether its various African populations mixing with each other or with Europeans and Natives. The dominant African culture varies between countries, though I have no proof to show how much cultural relevance correlates with genetic presence.
Also "Creole" is only creole till people forget it's creole. Language convergence been a thing since prehistory. If they want a theory about the "Genesis of Creole languages", then they have to drop the Creole part and look at the formation of languages in general.
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in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population,
That is not true.
Yes, it is true.
in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade or at any point, Sahelian slaves where not the dominant population
The Trans Atlantic Slave trade started after Timbuktu was destroyed.
quote: According to Zurara, Gonçalvez told his crew, “we have already got our cargo, but how fair a thing would it be if we, who have come to this land for a cargo of such petty merchandise, were to meet with good fortune and bring the first captives before the presence of our Prince?” That night, Gonçalvez led a raiding party into Cap Blanc, a narrow peninsula between Western Sahara and Mauritania, and kidnapped two Berbers, one man and one woman
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: Interms of where in Africa people were brought from? I'd like to believe not based on what I've learned, the only thing that's consistent is the mixing whether its various African populations mixing with each other or with Europeans and Natives. The dominant African culture varies between countries, though I have no proof to show how much cultural relevance correlates with genetic presence.
Also "Creole" is only creole till people forget it's creole. Language convergence been a thing since prehistory. If they want a theory about the "Genesis of Creole languages", then they have to drop the Creole part and look at the formation of languages in general.
Creole is not just language, it is also culture. I have seen many cultural patterns between several diaspora African descendants (groups).
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posted
I don't know whats Lioness point. As African-American its known to us who studied slavery that plantation owners preferred slaves from the Sahelian/SeneGambian area. I know this because my maternal grandparents state(the Carolinas) preferred those types of slaves for rice cultivation.
Again it does NOT repeat NOT mean they were the majority but that they were significant. African-American culture at its root is the only culture where Upper West Africans influenced our culture more so than Coastal West-Central Africans.
This is why people think our culture is "white-washed" because it was not polyrhythm heavy. But thats not true. And if anything American culture in general is African-American culture. But thats another story.
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in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population,
That is not true.
Yes, it is true.
in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade or at any point, Sahelian slaves where not the dominant population
The Trans Atlantic Slave trade started after Timbuktu was destroyed.
quote: According to Zurara, Gonçalvez told his crew, “we have already got our cargo, but how fair a thing would it be if we, who have come to this land for a cargo of such petty merchandise, were to meet with good fortune and bring the first captives before the presence of our Prince?” That night, Gonçalvez led a raiding party into Cap Blanc, a narrow peninsula between Western Sahara and Mauritania, and kidnapped two Berbers, one man and one woman
quote: With Portugal’s expansion into western Africa in the fifteenth century, Iberian merchants began to recognize the economic potential of a large-scale slave trafficking enterprise. One of the first to record this sentiment, according to Portuguese royal chronicler Gomes Eanes de Zurara, was a young ship captain named Antam Gonçalvez, who sailed to West Africa in 1441 hoping to acquire seal skins and oil. After obtaining his cargo, Gonçalvez called a meeting of the twenty-one sailors who accompanied him and unveiled his plan to increase their profits. According to Zurara, Gonçalvez told his crew, “we have already got our cargo, but how fair a thing would it be if we, who have come to this land for a cargo of such petty merchandise, were to meet with good fortune and bring the first captives before the presence of our Prince?” That night, Gonçalvez led a raiding party into Cap Blanc, a narrow peninsula between Western Sahara and Mauritania, and kidnapped two Berbers, one man and one woman. Another Portuguese mariner, Nuno Tristão, and members of his crew soon joined Gonçalvez. Although the raid resulted in less than a dozen captives, Zurara imagines in his account that prince Henry of Portugal responded to this enterprise with, “joy, not so much for the number of captives taken, but for prospect of other [countless] captives that could be taken.”
While Gonçalvez’s voyage in 1441 is widely considered to mark the beginnings of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, it may also be viewed as an extension of an older tradition of raiding and ransom on both shores of the Mediterranean. Upon returning to Portugal, Gonçalvez treated his captives in accordance with this custom, and allowed them to negotiate the terms of their release. Rather than offering a ransom of money, the captives promised to give Gonçalvez ten slaves in exchange for their own freedom and safe passage home. According to royal chronicler Zurara, the Berbers explained that these new captives would be “black [and] not of the lineage of Moors, but Gentiles.” Thus in 1442, Gonçalvez returned his Berber captives to Western Sahara, receiving as payment ten enslaved sub-Saharan Africans, whom he then transported back to Portugal for re-sale.
Does this mean in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population?
No, it does not mean in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population
Sahelian slaves were not the dominant population in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade and this account of two berbers being captured and then returned in exchanged for "sub Saharans" didn't even involve America
Your post is wasting people's time, go dig for some more info about who were the early slaves into North America. Once you find it you won't post it because you are more interested in proving me wrong than addressing the issue
To say in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population is misleading people about black history and now you are just adding to it
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The dominate slaves in mainland USA were Central Africans in the beginning but as I said before they were BANNED due to being very rebellious. After American slave owners looked towards slaves from the Mali, Senegal, Northern Nigeria and other Sahelian areas.
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quote:Originally posted by Andromeda2025: Ultimately, after reading this site for years I know that Euro-centrist true motivation is to maintain the great white hope of the "true negro" and Euro centrist mainly want AA's to carry that burden. However, it seams that AA's are very heterogeneous so good luck finding him/her.
Senegal, Gambia & Parts of Guinea are part of the Sahel Zone., Northern parts of Nigeria & Cameroon are also part of the Sahel.
Y Chromosome Lineages in Men of West African Descent Jada Benn Torres, Menahem B. Doura, Shomarka O. Y. Keita, Rick A. Kittles
The European colonization of the Americas used labor from west and west central Africa, initially in the U.S. as indentured servants and later enslaved. Although the exact number is unknown and highly contested, it is estimated by some historians that between 8 to 12 million Africans were brought to the Americas in the transatlantic slave trade. Of this total, the vast majority were sold to European colonies in Latin America, only 4.5% of the enslaved Africans were imported to the United States, 7.8% to Jamaica, and 0.03% to the US Virgin Islands [1], [2], [3].
Enslaved Africans came from or through major coastal regions that had been labeled by Europeans as the Grain Coast (consisting of Senegal, Gambia, Guinea, Sierra Leone and parts of Liberia), Windward Coast (Ivory Coast and Liberia), Gold Coast (Ghana west of the Volta River), Bight of Benin (between the Volta and Benin Rivers), Bight of Biafra (east of the Benin River to Gabon), Central Africa (Gabon, Congo, and Angola), and the southern coast of Africa (from the cape of Good Hope to Cape Delgado, including the island of Madagascar).
In the sixteenth through nineteenth centuries west and west Central Africa were home to a range of societies and cultures of varying social organization from so-called “stateless” (village focused) societies to kingdoms [4], [5], [6]. The Senegambian region, with a long history of technical expertise in rice agriculture and making indigo dye, included a number of ethnic groups [5], [6], and Muslim kingdoms under Mande [7], as well as Fulani rule such as Futa Toro, Futa Jallon, and Bundu [8]. Further east in Lower Guinea [5] were the Akan speaking peoples with likely cultural origins in the second century CE (common era) in local iron working and trading societies at Begho [9] within what is now Ghana. The Akan-speaking peoples were organized into kingdoms [5], most prominent among them being Ashanti in the south, known for its use of gold in artistic production. Further east were societies that may have been the descendants of the Nok culture dated to the last centuries BC [9]: these include kingdoms such as Benin, famous for its metal sculpture, Dahomey, and the Yoruba states [10]. Adjacent to the Yoruba the Ibo/Igbo peoples lived in southeastern Nigeria, site of the likely ninth century archaeological site of Igbo Ekwu with interesting locally done bronze sculpture, and numerous glass beads obtained in long distance trade [9]. West Central Africa was home to several societies (such as Loango, Ndongo, Luba, Kuba), and notably the Kingdom of the Kongo, which shared some common metaphysical beliefs between them, although the elite in the Kongo eventually accepted Christianity [4].
Historians report that the majority of enslaved Africans that were brought to the United States tended to be from Sierra Leone, Senegambia, and the Gold Coast, though Africans throughout the West African coast were also imported [1], [11], [12]. Within the British Caribbean, including Jamaica, a large proportion of enslaved Africans had origins from the Bight of Biafra. In the Dutch Caribbean, including what is now the US Virgin island of St. Thomas, many enslaved Africans were imported from the Bight of Benin [2]. Genetic data obtained from mitochondria and Y chromosome analyses support these findings for the British Caribbean [13].
The differences in origins of enslaved Africans are partially the result of preferences that European settlers had for different skill sets. Other factors such as availability and economic trends also influenced where enslaved Africans were obtained [2], [3].
Wax [12] reports that not only were the majority of Africans imported directly from Africa but also that Africans from the Gold and Windward coasts were among the most favored by European American colonists. Within the Caribbean, colonists apparently preferred Akan peoples over those from Angola [11]. Within South Carolina evidence indicates that Africans with skills in rice cultivation were in greatest demand. Several historians suggest that in South Carolina upwards of 40% of the enslaved originated from the “Grain coast” regions of Senegambia and Sierra Leone [14], [15], [16].
However, within South Carolina, as in the rest of the Americas, although the identities of African peoples were transformed, even lost, in the context of enslavement and forced acculturation they were not rendered totally invisible to historical research [8], [17] and cultural memory as evidenced by some Brazilians' and Cubans' abilities to speak Yoruba dialects.
Individuals of African descent within the Americas have varied African origins and did have interactions with non-Africans, namely Europeans and indigenous Americans. European ancestry entered this sociopolitical defined group due to a range of practices including voluntary concubinage, marriage, and forced relations. European males predominated in this exchange, but sometimes European females were also involved. These differences have likely resulted in different population genetic histories. There have been few comprehensive studies that attempt to explore the genetic genealogical origins of African descendant populations in the United States and the Caribbean [13], [18]. Those studies that do consider origins generally only consider the mitochondrial locus. Both Ely et al. [19] and Salas et al. [18], [20] for example examine the maternal genetic ancestries of African Americans. Their conclusions are largely congruent with the historical record that African Americans descend from west and west central African populations. Within South America, specifically Brazil, the genetic data support the same conclusion that African-Brazilians also have west and west central African origin [21], [22], [23], [24] as well as some from southeastern Africa.
In comparisons of genetic variation across the genome and across continental populations, the variation found outside of Africa by and large tends to be a subset of the variation observed within African populations [25], [26]. This is generally attributed to the African origin of our species [27], [28] and the serial founder effects as humans migrated from Africa. Relatively few studies have examined African genetic diversity [29]. Although some studies have specifically considered regional genetic diversity within west or central Africa [23], [30], [31], [32], [33], [34] they generally investigate the mitochondrial lineages. Less has been published about paternal genetic variation within west and central Africa.
In this study, we examine Y-chromosome genetic variation in African descendant populations. In addition, we search for genetic evidence of substantial Senegambian “Grain Coast” ancestry in African American males from South Carolina. Finally, we consider the paternal African origins of several African descendant populations throughout the Americas. In doing this we hope to not only provide a genetic perspective to compliment historical investigations into the issue of African geographical origins but also contribute to the understanding of the genetic structure of African American populations. Understanding the variation present in these populations has implicit ramifications on admixture mapping and association studies in this admixed politically defined ‘macro-ethnic’ group [35].
Visualization of the genetic distances in the MDS plots illustrates a strong geographical relationship between the African populations. Within the mega cluster of African populations, there is a geographical distribution of the populations. Groups from the Grain Coast generally fall together, as do groups from the Bight of Benin. One African American population, those from South Carolina, cluster with the African populations. Notably, the South Carolina population falls nearest to the Grain Coast populations. Ethnohistorical records indicate a relationship between African Americans within this region of the United States and West Africans from Senegal, Gambia, and Sierra Leone. Based on such records it has been suggested that many African Americans within South Carolina originate from the Grain Coast region of West Africa. Furthermore, Africans from this region were sought-after and imported to the Americas for their knowledge of rice cultivation [8], [15], [17]. The current study is the first to test this hypothesis using genetic data. The other African derived groups from the Americas form a separate cluster and are closest to one outlying African group from the Bight of Biafra. Given that Caribbean slave census records collected in the 19th century indicate that many individuals were from the Bight of Biafra, this result appears consistent with historical data
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: @africurious
My bad. Anyways, I am aware of New Orleans Central American population and Congo square. But still that does not prove anything because right before the Haitian revolution ended(1803), the French sold Louisiana to the USA.
Do you have a source for that guy? Because he seems like he was doing it illegally(which did happen and that ban seemed banning importation of all slaves), however they still preferred West Africans over Central Africans due to them not being as rebellious.
Either way Congo Square was just one location. The ban of Central Americans is evident in African-American admixture because the non-Central African admixture is more predominate from the many studies I've seen.
I’m not arguing that there were more W central afs in America than upper west af. It was obvious long before dna testing that more upper W Afs were taken to the US based on slave ship records. I’m arguing that W central Afs had a significant contribution to AA culture because they were taken in large #s both before and after the late 18th century ban on their importation. Laws mean nothing if they’re not enforced and America during the slave trade did not have the law enforcement capabilities it does today. Further, as the drug trade has shown, if there’s lots of $s to be made the trade continues. W central Afs were the vast majority of African slaves taken to Louisiana from 1763-1820 (see below quotes for example).
quote:Ironically, given the newly recovered visibility of Africans in pre-1820 Louisiana, especially in the Spanish period (1763-1803) when the region clearly was ‘‘re-Africanized’’ (and probably ‘‘Kongolized’’), the colonial slave trade to Louisiana is the least-documented of the North American trades.
quote: “Congo” was the generic name under which the slaves from Central Africa were designated in Louisiana and certainly the most frequent reference for slaves recorded on official documents. “Congo” became synonymous of “Africa” like “Guinen” (Guinea) in Saint-Domingue (Haiti). “Congo Square” or “Place du Congo” (now Louis Armstrong Park), the most symbolic place for Afro-Creole culture in New Orleans, was named so by the folks who, every Sunday afternoon, used to dance there in circles representing different African nations.
Another point is that the slave trade and the influences that formed AA culture are more complex than you seem to realize. You mentioned several times that african drums were banned as if that means the cultures where the drum was a major instrument then had no way to spread. Music is but one aspect of culture. And there’s something interesting with music… Blues is organized on the timing pattern of savannah W Afs (between the sahel and forest zones). It is also not polyrythmic as much of W and WC Af music is. But, Jazz which comes from Louisiana is based on the timing pattern of forest zone W Af and W central Af. The drum (the ban of which you placed great importance) is the base instrument of Jazz and all popular American music since, from rock n roll to hip-hop. All other instruments are then layered on top of the drums. Is it mere coincidence that African drums weren’t banned in Louisiana till the latter part of the 1800s? The drums in jazz and American popular music are euro-derived military drums (from the civil war) but they aren’t played or incorporated into American popular music like euros do. They are used as it’s done in Africa: the drum is the base instrument and keeps the timing (jazz uses the forest zone music note timing). Even though Lousiana was a fraction of the AA population it has an outsized, in fact the dominant, musical influence that formed the base of popular music among AAs and wider America for the last 100 yrs. And euro drums played the African way is a key feature. Go figure.
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in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population,
That is not true.
Yes, it is true.
in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade or at any point, Sahelian slaves where not the dominant population
The Trans Atlantic Slave trade started after Timbuktu was destroyed.
quote: According to Zurara, Gonçalvez told his crew, “we have already got our cargo, but how fair a thing would it be if we, who have come to this land for a cargo of such petty merchandise, were to meet with good fortune and bring the first captives before the presence of our Prince?” That night, Gonçalvez led a raiding party into Cap Blanc, a narrow peninsula between Western Sahara and Mauritania, and kidnapped two Berbers, one man and one woman
quote: With Portugal’s expansion into western Africa in the fifteenth century, Iberian merchants began to recognize the economic potential of a large-scale slave trafficking enterprise. One of the first to record this sentiment, according to Portuguese royal chronicler Gomes Eanes de Zurara, was a young ship captain named Antam Gonçalvez, who sailed to West Africa in 1441 hoping to acquire seal skins and oil. After obtaining his cargo, Gonçalvez called a meeting of the twenty-one sailors who accompanied him and unveiled his plan to increase their profits. According to Zurara, Gonçalvez told his crew, “we have already got our cargo, but how fair a thing would it be if we, who have come to this land for a cargo of such petty merchandise, were to meet with good fortune and bring the first captives before the presence of our Prince?” That night, Gonçalvez led a raiding party into Cap Blanc, a narrow peninsula between Western Sahara and Mauritania, and kidnapped two Berbers, one man and one woman. Another Portuguese mariner, Nuno Tristão, and members of his crew soon joined Gonçalvez. Although the raid resulted in less than a dozen captives, Zurara imagines in his account that prince Henry of Portugal responded to this enterprise with, “joy, not so much for the number of captives taken, but for prospect of other [countless] captives that could be taken.”
While Gonçalvez’s voyage in 1441 is widely considered to mark the beginnings of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, it may also be viewed as an extension of an older tradition of raiding and ransom on both shores of the Mediterranean. Upon returning to Portugal, Gonçalvez treated his captives in accordance with this custom, and allowed them to negotiate the terms of their release. Rather than offering a ransom of money, the captives promised to give Gonçalvez ten slaves in exchange for their own freedom and safe passage home. According to royal chronicler Zurara, the Berbers explained that these new captives would be “black [and] not of the lineage of Moors, but Gentiles.” Thus in 1442, Gonçalvez returned his Berber captives to Western Sahara, receiving as payment ten enslaved sub-Saharan Africans, whom he then transported back to Portugal for re-sale.
Does this mean in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population?
No, it does not mean in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population
Sahelian slaves were not the dominant population in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade and this account of two berbers being captured and then returned in exchanged for "sub Saharans" didn't even involve America
Your post is wasting people's time, go dig for some more info about who were the early slaves into North America. Once you find it you won't post it because you are more interested in proving me wrong than addressing the issue
To say in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population is misleading people about black history and now you are just adding to it
It is you who is waisting peoples time here, posting GARBAGE. This topic is not about North America, clown. It is your eurocentric GARBAGE which is trying to alter Africas history. The people have been deported to these slave coasts. That is what happened.
quote:
The early African experience in the Americas is marked by the transatlantic slave trade from ∼1619 to 1850 and the rise of the plantation system. The origins of enslaved Africans were largely dependent on European preferences as well as the availability of potential laborers within Africa. Rice production was a key industry of many colonial South Carolina low country plantations. Accordingly, rice plantations owners within South Carolina often requested enslaved Africans from the so-called “Grain Coast” of western Africa (Senegal to Sierra Leone). Studies on the African origins of the enslaved within other regions of the Americas have been limited.
—Jada Benn Torres1#, Menahem B. Doura2#, Shomarka O. Y. Keita3, Rick A. Kittles4
Y Chromosome Lineages in Men of West African Descent
quote: The oldest of the three empires, ancient Ghana at its height ruled territory comprising what we would now call Ghana, Senegal, Gambia, Mauritania, Guinea and Mali, located between two great rivers: the Senegal and the Niger. Timbuktu was founded during the dominance of the Ghana empire, in around AD 1100, by Sanhaja desert nomads, who had a tradition of camping near the Niger in the dry season and taking their animals inland to graze during the rainy season.
There are several explanations for the origin of the name of the famous city. One account suggests that, while the nomads were away, their belongings were entrusted to their slaves, one of whom was called Buktu. The campsite thus became known as 'Tim Buktu', meaning 'well of Buktu'. What began as a semi-permanent nomadic settlement evolved into town and, ultimately, into a city that, between 1100 and 1300, was a thriving economic centre.
Located at a hub of commercial exchange between Saharan Africa, tropical Africa and Mediterranean Africa, Timbuktu was a magnet that attracted both men of learning and men of commerce. It benefited from the gold trade coming from the southern reaches of West Africa – in the 14th century, approximately two thirds of the world's gold came from West Africa – as well as from the salt trade arriving via the Sahara.
I already shown how Upper West Africans influenced AA culture outside of music. Hell Upper West Africans even influenced the cowboy culture here in America.
Second none of your sources even address how Central Africans influenced AA culture more than Sahelians. You brought up New Orleans again which we already KNOW had a large Congolese population.
Anyways the cowboy influence.
quote: The first major contribution by Africans to North American society was in the arena of cattle raising. When the Fulani (or Fula) people from Senegambia, along with longhorn cattle, were imported to South Carolina in 1731, colonial herds increased from 500 to 6,784 some 30 years later. These Fulas were expert cattlemen and were responsible for introducing African husbandry patterns of open grazing now practiced throughout the American cattle industry. Cattle drives to the centers of distribution were innovations Africans brought with them as contributions to a developing industry. Originally a cowboy was an African who worked with cattle, just as a houseboy worked in “de big House.” Open grazing made practical use of an abundance of land and a limited labor force.
Africans and their descendants were America’s first cowboys. Most people are not aware that many cowboys of the American West were Black, contrary to how the film industry and the media have portrayed them. Only recently have we begun to recognize the extent to which cowboy culture has African roots. Many details of cowboy life, work, and even material culture can be traced to the Fulani, America’s first cowboys, but there has been little investigation of this by historians of the American West.
Contemporary descriptions of local West African animal husbandry bear a striking resemblance to what appeared in Carolina and later in the American dairy and cattle industries. Africans introduced the first artificial insemination and the use of cows’ milk for human consumption. Peter Wood believes that from this early relationship between cattle and Africans the word, “cowboy” originated.
As late as 1865, following the Civil War, Africans whose responsibilities were with cattle were referred to as “cowboys’ in plantation records. After 1865, whites associated with the cattle industry referred to themselves as “cattlemen,” to distinguish themselves from the Black cowboys. The annual North-South migratory patterns the cowboys followed are directly related to the migratory patterns of the Fulani cattle herders who lived scattered throughout Nigeria and Niger. Not only were Africans imported with the expertise to handle cattle, but the African longhorn was imported as well, a breed that later became known as the Texas longhorn.
Much of the early language associated with cowboy culture had a strong African flavor. The word buckra (buckaroo) is derived from Mbakara, the Efik/lbibio work for “poor white man.” It was used to describe a class of whites who worked as broncobusters, bucking and breaking horses. Planters used buckras as broncobusters because slaves were too valuable to risk injury. Another African word that found its way into popular cowboy songs is “get along little dogies.” The word “doggies” originated from Kimbundu, along with kidogo, a little something, and dodo, small. After the Civil War when great cattle roundups began, Black cowboys introduced such Africanisms to cowboy language and songs.
As you keep bringing up Louisiana and keep forgetting(you were the one that mentioned it) that it was not apart of the USA at one point. And again Louisiana was just one area.
And Jazz did not have more of a influence on popular music than the Blues. The blues directly influenced Rock, R&B and then went on to influence other genres.
Hell it can be argued that the Blues influenced part Jazz.
quote:Anyone who’s listened to jazz can tell you the horns are pretty important. What you can probably not tell as much is how the sounds made by the horn sound a lot like Blues’ guitars. The twang and pitch of the guitars is replaced in Jazz by trumpets, trombones, and saxophones. On top of that, Jazz musicians use many of the unusual time signatures also present in Blues, though it takes it to a higher level.
quote:It Ain't Nothin' But the Blues traces the history and progression of blues music, from Mississippi Delta blues to the electric blues style of post-war Chicago. But what came after? Almost every genre of popular music today has, in one way or another, been influenced by blues music. Jazz, rhythm & blues, gospel, country and rock ‘n’ roll (and all music that would later spawn from these genres) are just a few of the styles that owe much of their progression and style to blues music.[B]
From the perspective of musical structure, [B]jazz as we know it would not exist without the blues. The twelve-bar blues chorus, with its familiar harmonic structure and narrative form, was the single most popular template for early jazz improvisation. Prominent jazz and folk performers like Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Miles Davis and Bob Dylan, among many others, were strongly influenced by the blues.
No offense but the Central African influence is overstated with the Sahelian influence(the stronger one) being ignored which is why many think AA culture is Europeanized.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
And just to inform the rest of you the difference is even noted between AAs(Sahelian influence) and Afro-Cubans(Central African influence).
quote:Afro-Cuban and African American music is very similar yet very different. Why? Because “essential elements of these two musics came from different parts of Africa, entering the New World by different routes, at different times, into differently structured societies” (Sublette, 159). These essential elements in African American music do not appear in Cuban music: swing and the blues scale. Cuban music contains elements of the clave (a rhythmic key) and “those undulating, repeating, melodic-rhythmic loops of fixed pitches called guajeo, montuno, or tumbao” (159). The reason for these differences was that they reflected two different musical styles that of Sudanic Africa and forest Africa.
Above are the percentages for African slaves taken to the US. Sahelians would’ve been found among Senegambians (19.7%), Gold Coast, Bight of Benin and Bight of Biafra (32.3% combined for last 3 goups). However, a good amount in Senegambian region were from the savannah. Even if you allocate all Senegambians to the Sahel, that’s only ~20%. Sahelians would’ve been few in # from the Gold Coast, Bight of Benin and Bight of Biafra. This was because there were many other people and polities in the forest zone and savannah who were the enemies of Ashanti, the Fanti, Oyo and the warring Yoruba kingdoms, Benin and Dahomey. In fact, these 3 regions were among the principal slave sources to the Caribbean and s America. So if one gave a generous estimate, Sahelians were a bit over 20% of Africans taken to the US. That isn’t much more than the overall # of Sahelians that were taken to the rest of the Americas as shown below. So supposed Sahelian dominance in #s or culture can’t explain the difference between AA and other Afro cultures of the Americas.
posted
^^^That is still not good enough as it seems to be based on ports. The Sahel does not just include Senegambia but also Northern Guinea, Northern Nigeria, Northern Ghana, Mali and Northern Cameroon.
Famous white Natchez Mississippi planter/slaver, William Dunbar, express that Mississippi planters held a preference for Africans from the interior, stating "there are certain nations from the interior of Africa the individuals of which I have always found more civilized, at least better disposed than those from the coast, such as Bornon, Houssa, Zanfara, Zegzeg, Kapina, and Tombootoo regions".
And once again like I said more numbers DOES NOT mean more cultural influence. Afro-Brazilian culture is mainly Yoruba influence however we know that based on admixture that they are mostly Angolan.
quote:Of the approximately 388,000 Africans who landed in America, almost 92,000 (24 percent) were Senegambians. In the early decades of immigration to the Chesapeake region before 1700, there were more immigrants from Senegambia (almost 6,000) than from the Bight of Biafra (about 5,000), and they totaled about 31,000 by the end of the migration, representing almost a third of all arrivals from Senegambia. About 45,000 Senegambians were settled in the coastal Low Country of the Carolinas and Georgia, where they constituted 21 percent of African immigrants. Senegambians were also prominent among African immigrants in the northern colonies, accounting for about 28 percent of arrivals, or over 7,000 people. Almost 9,000 Senegambians — often identified as Bambara or Mandingo — went to the Gulf region, especially to Louisiana, where they constituted about 40 percent of the population arriving from Africa. Hence, people from Senegambia were prominent everywhere in the United States, much more so than virtually anywhere else in the Western Hemisphere, although there were also considerable numbers of Senegambians in the French Caribbean islands and in French Guiana. Senegambia was strongly influenced by Islam, more so than any other region of origin, which means that many enslaved Africans in the United States had been exposed to Islam, more so proportionately than in the rest of the Americas. There were many Muslims in Brazil in the nineteenth century, mostly in Bahia, but they came from the central Sudan (northern Nigeria and adjacent areas), unlike those who were sent to the United States. Muslims were clearly present in both the low country of Carolina and Georgia and in the Tidewater region of Virginia and Maryland. Adult Muslim males stand out prominently, while there are very few references to Muslim women. This reflects what is known about the slave trade originating in the interior of West Africa, which was composed almost entirely of males."
^^^This source even states that Sahelians were more prominent in the USA than other parts of the diaspora. And other point raw numbers=/=percentage.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote: Legal and philosophical arguments to address this issue began to evolve during the second half of the fifteenth century, once Portuguese mariners began to return to Iberia with captives acquired in West Africa and West Central Africa. Notably, the treatment of “black Gentiles” was addressed in 1452 and 1455, when Pope Nicolas V issued a series of papal bulls that granted Portugal the right to enslave sub-Saharan Africans.
Though the papal bull mentions “invading” and “vanquishing” African peoples, no European nation was willing or able to put an army in western Africa until the Portuguese colonization of Angola more than a century later (and even then, Portuguese forces received extensive aid from armies of Imbangala or “Jaga” mercenaries).
quote: The first European nation to engage in the Transatlantic Slave Trade was Portugal in the mid to late 1400's. Captain John Hawkins made the first known English slaving voyage to Africa, in 1562, in the reign of Elizabeth 1. Hawkins made three such journeys over a period of six years. He captured over 1200 Africans and sold them as goods in the Spanish colonies in the Americas.
To start with, British traders supplied slaves for the Spanish and Portuguese colonists in America. However, as British settlements in the Caribbean and North America grew, often through wars with European countries such as Holland, Spain and France, British slave traders increasingly supplied British colonies
The dominant rhythmic figure popular in New Orleans and performed on Congo Square during this time, with origins in many different slave musics of the Caribbean, is the three-stroke pattern known in Cuban music as tresillo (06). Louis Armstrong must have heard it plenty as a boy growing up mere blocks from Congo Square. In the post-Civil War period, African-Americans in New Orleans were able to obtain surplus military bass drums, snare drums, fifes, trumpets and saxophones. As a result, an original African-American fife and drum music arose, featuring tresillo and related syncopated rhythmic figures. “Tresillo is the most basic and by far, the most prevalent duple-pulse rhythmic cell in sub-Saharan African music traditions, and the music of the African Diaspora.” — David Peñalosa [07] And so it was in the brothels and bars of the red-light district of New Orleans where a potent combination of Blues, Ragtime, Quadrilles, Salon Music, Afro-Latin music, Native American music, European folk music and Marching Bands, played by multi-racial musicians who shared a passion for syncopation and improvisation, with discarded military brass and reed instruments, first came together to form what we know as Jazz.
The “tresillo and related syncopated rhythmic figures” mentioned in the article are what gives AA music “rythmn” and makes you want to move your feet, hips, butt and dance. It is why the popular joke exists in America about white people not having any rhythm and AAs having rhythm.
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: It is you who is waisting peoples time here, posting GARBAGE. This topic is not about North America, clown.
Did you tell Andromeda2025 " This topic is not about North America" You did not, you are trying to pick a fight with me and now you have one
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population,
That is not true.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Yes, it is true.
Although there are overlaps between West Africa and the Sahel and variant definitions of the Sahel Sahelian slaves where not the dominant population and you can look at 100 books on the transatlantic slave trade and none of them are going to say that. Additionally slaves who were Muslims are estimated to be around 10%, or a high estimate of 15%
To make this statement
" in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population"
is misleading and miseducates people on the history of the slave trade, period
it is not true at any point in time
and the word "dominant' here is vague and confuses things. People should admit to their error and forget about what I say about it
It is very peculiar how people are constantly trying to avoid West Africa and this can be seen in other discussions
So far africurious has backed his comment with honest data
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quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: @africurious
I already shown how Upper West Africans influenced AA culture outside of music. Hell Upper West Africans even influenced the cowboy culture here in America.
Enjoy,
This is a very rare video of the late Scott Didlake, 1948-1994, pioneer gourd banjo builder and the lost origin of the banjo researcher. He his talking at a Gourd banjo workshop during the Tennessee Banjo Institute event 1992 together with Mike Seeger and Clark Buehling..
The banjo's sound is synonymous with country, folk, and bluegrass—music as "white" as it gets. For many, it's the quintessential American instrument. Its origin, though, lies in Africa, in various instruments featuring skin drum heads and gourd bodies. Slaves fashioned them into the modern version in the colonial Caribbean, from where it traveled, via 19th-century minstrel shows, into the very heart of American popular culture. Duke University historian Laurent Dubois, one of the world's foremost experts on the Caribbean, traces the banjo's extraordinary trajectory and the part it has played in the very concept of America.
This program is presented in partnership with the John Hope Franklin Humanities Institute at Duke University.
posted
The modern banjo derives from instruments that had been used in the Caribbean since the 17th century by enslaved people taken from West Africa. Polyrhythmic drums? banned
quote:
Between 1500 and 1850, more than 12 million enslaved Africans were transported to the New World. The vast majority were shipped from West and West-Central Africa, but their precise origins are largely unknown. We used genome-wide ancient DNA analyses to investigate the genetic origins of three enslaved Africans whose remains were recovered on the Caribbean island of Saint Martin. We trace their origins to distinct subcontinental source populations within Africa, including Bantu-speaking groups from northern Cameroon and non-Bantu speakers living in present-day Nigeria and Ghana. To our knowledge, these findings provide the first direct evidence for the ethnic origins of enslaved Africans,
-- Genome-wide ancestry of 17th-century enslaved Africans from the Caribbean
The dominant rhythmic figure popular in New Orleans and performed on Congo Square during this time, with origins in many different slave musics of the Caribbean, is the three-stroke pattern known in Cuban music as tresillo (06). Louis Armstrong must have heard it plenty as a boy growing up mere blocks from Congo Square. In the post-Civil War period, African-Americans in New Orleans were able to obtain surplus military bass drums, snare drums, fifes, trumpets and saxophones. As a result, an original African-American fife and drum music arose, featuring tresillo and related syncopated rhythmic figures. “Tresillo is the most basic and by far, the most prevalent duple-pulse rhythmic cell in sub-Saharan African music traditions, and the music of the African Diaspora.” — David Peñalosa [07] And so it was in the brothels and bars of the red-light district of New Orleans where a potent combination of Blues, Ragtime, Quadrilles, Salon Music, Afro-Latin music, Native American music, European folk music and Marching Bands, played by multi-racial musicians who shared a passion for syncopation and improvisation, with discarded military brass and reed instruments, first came together to form what we know as Jazz.
The “tresillo and related syncopated rhythmic figures” mentioned in the article are what gives AA music “rythmn” and makes you want to move your feet, hips, butt and dance. It is why the popular joke exists in America about white people not having any rhythm and AAs having rhythm.
I don't know what this source is suppose to prove? The article does not even address how Jazz influenced Rock. Second all your sources always goes back to New Orleans which was just ONE African-American cultural area in America. And like I said Blues influenced part of Jazz.
quote:Blues musical styles, forms (12-bar blues), melodies, and the blues scale have influenced many other genres of music, such as rock and roll, jazz, and popular music.[127] Prominent jazz, folk or rock performers, such as Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Miles Davis, and Bob Dylan have performed significant blues recordings. The blues scale is often used in popular songs like Harold Arlen's “Blues in the Night”, blues ballads like “Since I Fell for You” and “Please Send Me Someone to Love”, and even in orchestral works such as George Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” and “Concerto in F”. Gershwin's second “Prelude” for solo piano is an interesting example of a classical blues, maintaining the form with academic strictness. The blues scale is ubiquitous in modern popular music and informs many modal frames, especially the ladder of thirds used in rock music (for example, in “A Hard Day's Night”).
The blues note is found literally everywhere in AA music. Can you show Central African influence beyond New Orleans?
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: The modern banjo derives from instruments that had been used in the Caribbean since the 17th century by enslaved people taken from West Africa.
quote:
Between 1500 and 1850, more than 12 million enslaved Africans were transported to the New World. The vast majority were shipped from West and West-Central Africa, but their precise origins are largely unknown. We used genome-wide ancient DNA analyses to investigate the genetic origins of three enslaved Africans whose remains were recovered on the Caribbean island of Saint Martin. We trace their origins to distinct subcontinental source populations within Africa, including Bantu-speaking groups from northern Cameroon and non-Bantu speakers living in present-day Nigeria and Ghana. To our knowledge, these findings provide the first direct evidence for the ethnic origins of enslaved Africans,
-- Genome-wide ancestry of 17th-century enslaved Africans from the Caribbean
What the heck are you talking about? The banjo largely comes from West African griots and the ancestor of the Banjo is still played in West Africa. Your source doesn't even mention the Banjo. What are you getting at?
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: It is you who is waisting peoples time here, posting GARBAGE. This topic is not about North America, clown.
retarded jackass with reading comprehension issues Andromeda2025 brought up North America and I replied to it -and then you replied to it. Did you tell Andromeda2025 " This topic is not about North America" You did not, you are trying to pick a fight with me and now you have one, lame fool
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population,
That is not true.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Yes, it is true.
Although there are overlaps between West Africa and the Sahel and variant definitions of the Sahel Sahelian slaves where not the dominant population and you can look at 100 books on the transatlantic slave trade and none of them are going to say that. Additionally slaves who were Muslims are estimated to be around 10%, or a high estimate of 15%
To make this statement
" in the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade especially in North America, Sahelian slaves where the dominant population"
is misleading and miseducates people on the history of the slave trade, period
it is not true at any point in time
and the word "dominant' here is vague and confuses things. People should admit to their error and forget about what I say about it
It is very peculiar how people are constantly trying to avoid West Africa and this can be seen in other discussions
So far africurious has backed his comment with honest data
Sehalian people first the first to be enslaved by Europeans.
People have been taken to slave portals, what it so hard to understand about that?
"Although there are overlaps between West Africa and the Sahel and variant definitions of the Sahel" LOL
Sahelian slaves where not the dominant population and you can look at 100 books on the transatlantic slave trade and none of them are going to say that
Again, this is NOT about "North America".
So far Africurious has backed his comment with honest data. Yep, as you can see it shows the Sahel region. The Sahel is right below the Sahara.
Mod Edit
Relax with the insults please.
[ 24. June 2017, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: BlessedbyHorus ]
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: The modern banjo derives from instruments that had been used in the Caribbean since the 17th century by enslaved people taken from West Africa. Polyrhythmic drums? banned
quote:
Between 1500 and 1850, more than 12 million enslaved Africans were transported to the New World. The vast majority were shipped from West and West-Central Africa, but their precise origins are largely unknown. We used genome-wide ancient DNA analyses to investigate the genetic origins of three enslaved Africans whose remains were recovered on the Caribbean island of Saint Martin. We trace their origins to distinct subcontinental source populations within Africa, including Bantu-speaking groups from northern Cameroon and non-Bantu speakers living in present-day Nigeria and Ghana. To our knowledge, these findings provide the first direct evidence for the ethnic origins of enslaved Africans,
-- Genome-wide ancestry of 17th-century enslaved Africans from the Caribbean
Northern Cameroon and north of Nigeria are Sahel.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Ragtime became the first nationally popular form of American music in 1899, when Scott Joplin's (1868-1917) "Maple Leaf Rag" enjoyed unprecedented success, selling over a million sheet-music copies. But ragtime was not new in 1899. Documents reveal that it was being played as early as the 1870s
Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: The modern banjo derives from instruments that had been used in the Caribbean since the 17th century by enslaved people taken from West Africa.
quote:
Between 1500 and 1850, more than 12 million enslaved Africans were transported to the New World. The vast majority were shipped from West and West-Central Africa, but their precise origins are largely unknown. We used genome-wide ancient DNA analyses to investigate the genetic origins of three enslaved Africans whose remains were recovered on the Caribbean island of Saint Martin. We trace their origins to distinct subcontinental source populations within Africa, including Bantu-speaking groups from northern Cameroon and non-Bantu speakers living in present-day Nigeria and Ghana. To our knowledge, these findings provide the first direct evidence for the ethnic origins of enslaved Africans,
-- Genome-wide ancestry of 17th-century enslaved Africans from the Caribbean
What the heck are you talking about? The banjo largely comes from West African griots and the ancestor of the Banjo is still played in West Africa. Your source doesn't even mention the Banjo. What are you getting at?
Logically, mainly because of Senegambians.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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The banjo's sound is synonymous with country, folk, and bluegrass—music as "white" as it gets. For many, it's the quintessential American instrument. Its origin, though, lies in Africa, in various instruments featuring skin drum heads and gourd bodies. Slaves fashioned them into the modern version in the colonial Caribbean, from where it traveled, via 19th-century minstrel shows, into the very heart of American popular culture. Duke University historian Laurent Dubois, one of the world's foremost experts on the Caribbean, traces the banjo's extraordinary trajectory and the part it has played in the very concept of America.
This program is presented in partnership with the John Hope Franklin Humanities Institute at Duke University.
28:33 and on wards is gold. Nice post man. They mentioned Sir Han Sloan's trips to Jamaica. funfact Sloan also mentioned the first uses of Cocoa being used in a drink... essentially the origins of Chocolate milk being Jamaican. 10.1215/01642472-1210274
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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posted
Diego Columbus was nearly killed by Wolofs during a slave revolt on the island of Hispaniola (this slave revolt was the very first revolt in the Americas)
posted
First of all, the western Sahel is in West Africa, no one is avoiding "west Africa or west central Africa." The question is why is African American culture while having commonalities and shared traits, "different" from Afro Caribbean and Afro Latin cultures. It is important to know American history and the chronological theft of Native American lands, ethnic cleansing of indigenous peoples, white indentured servitude and the gradual implementation of African slavery in the Anglo colonies of N.A .
For the English, their colonial gangster ism begins in the northern states or early colonies. The Spanish still had Florida. There where the Cherokee's and Creeks along the South Carolina & Georgia coast. Louisiana is still in the hands of the French The purchase won't be made until 1803. So timing is everything. From 1641 until after the Revolution 1776 is 125 years! This is more than enough time for the first English American slaves to develop a "culture" which trended more toward ( not all) but more toward Senegambia and Upper Guinea. If you look @Ish Gabor's image, " North America" which include New York, New Jersey, & Pennsylvania and the rest of the New England states, the SeneGambian's are dominant. Oh yes and the reason American culture is so damn African is because if you look at population studies, in the early colonies African's where the majority or a slight minority.
In 1641, Massachusetts became the first colony to authorize slavery through enacted law
In 1654, John Casor, a black indentured servant in colonial Virginia, was the first man to be declared a slave in a civil case
During most of the British colonial period, slavery existed in all the colonies. In 1703, more than 42 percent of New York City households held slaves
In South Carolina in 1720, about 65% of the population consisted of enslaved people
In 1735, the Georgia Trustees enacted a law to prohibit slavery in the new colony.
In most regions, during the colonial period when Africans were adapting their cultural patterns to the new environment, they like other people coming to America before 1750 were less likely to be of diverse origins (Eltis et al 2001; Walsh 2001). However, over time people from different regions of Africa arrived, which resulted in the mixing of peoples. Based upon these findings as well as recent archeology of African American sites from the colonial period, historical interpretations of colonial life among Africans need to revisit notions of Africans being unable to communicate with one another, or being randomly distributed in the colonies https://www.nps.gov/ethnography/aah/AAheritage/histContextsD.htm
The United States Constitution, adopted in 1787, prevented Congress from completely banning the importation of slaves until 1808, although Congress regulated it in the Slave Trade Act of 1794, and in subsequent Acts in 1800 and 1803.[60] After the Revolution, numerous states individually passed laws against importing slaves. By contrast, the states of Georgia and South Carolina reopened their trade due to demand by their upland planters, who were developing new cotton plantations: Georgia from 1800 until December 31, 1807, and South Carolina from 1804. In that period, Charleston traders imported about 75,000 slaves, more than were brought to South Carolina in the 75 years before the Revolution.[106] Approximately 30,000 were imported to Georgia.
250,000 new slaves arrived in the United States from 1787 to 1808, a number equal to the entire slave importation of the colonial period.
Throughout the 18th century, approximately three quarters of the Africans arriving in the Upper Chesapeake as well as in the region around the lower James River came from the upper parts of the West African coast, from Senagambia on the north to the Windward and Gold Coasts, an area which included present day Senegal down along the coast ending in the area of present day Ghana (Walsh 2001:31). Most Africans arrived in the lower James area by way of the intra-Atlantic coastal slave trade from the West Indies, which probably accounts for ethnic diversity of Africans enslaved there.
Tobacco Plantations (established in the 1600's) Rice Plantations (established in the 1700's) Indigo Plantations (established in the 1700's) Cotton Plantations (established in the 1800's) Sugar Plantations (established in the 1800's)
Fewer than 350,000 enslaved people were imported into the Thirteen Colonies and the U.S, constituting less than 5% of all slaves imported from Africa .
cotton was not grown on Southern plantations until 1793
So the large importation of Angolans where late in the 17th Century to lower South Carolina & Georgia, because of King Cotton. This is already late in the game to have a "large affect" on established African American slaves and culture. Slavery would end only 70 years later.
The number of enslaved people in the US grew rapidly, reaching 4 million by the 1860 Census. From 1770 until 1860, the rate of natural growth of North American enslaved people was much greater than for the population of any nation in Europe, and it was nearly twice as rapid as that of England
In 1763 when France ceded Louisiana to the Spanish there were 46,000 African people enslaved there as compared to 36,500 free persons, mostly white (Hall: 1992:29–55). Most of these Africans came from points north of the Windward Coast and many had originally disembarked in St. Domingue (Hall, 1992). As high as these population data seem, the majority of all Africans imported in North America during the colonial period were enslaved in the Chesapeake and Low Country regions. Read more about people enslaved in French America. North of the Windward Coast is in the general area of the Sahel.
Here is the truth "people" like lioness and others who are very fragile and are foot soldiers for the elite want the image of African Americans to fit a stereotype perpetuated by the human traffickers because in their own mind it dehumanizes and keeps blacks in their "place". Global white supremacy is maintained through the oppression of African Americans and the African American image by proxy. So these foot soldiers want to POLICE what African Americans believe about themselves. I don't even like going through this much trouble for a post, because in the end soldiers will move the goal posts. I know what I know about African American culture because I don't know I am African American?
Posts: 165 | From: Miami Beach, Florida | Registered: Jun 2017
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quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: ^^^That is still not good enough as it seems to be based on ports. The Sahel does not just include Senegambia but also Northern Guinea, Northern Nigeria, Northern Ghana, Mali and Northern Cameroon.
They weren’t put on flights so they had to come through the ports to get to the US and we have a great idea of the ethnicities that came through which ports. Those groups you mentioned above were a small minority. That’s just a function of geography (savannah/forrest zones closer to coast) and the warfare/power dynamics of the regions.
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: Famous white Natchez Mississippi planter/slaver, William Dunbar, express that Mississippi planters held a preference for Africans from the interior, stating "there are certain nations from the interior of Africa the individuals of which I have always found more civilized, at least better disposed than those from the coast, such as Bornon, Houssa, Zanfara, Zegzeg, Kapina, and Tombootoo regions".
Many planters and regions had their favored source for slaves. I’ve posted data on where the slaves to America came from. Let me know how tonnes of those northern groups would’ve gotten to the US based on the data. Or post other data you feel is significantly more accurate.
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: And once again like I said more numbers DOES NOT mean more cultural influence. Afro-Brazilian culture is mainly Yoruba influence however we know that based on admixture that they are mostly Angolan.
I wholeheartedly agree with you here. That’s the pt I was trying to make also when I discussed W central Afs. But, actually you’re wrong: Yoruba isn’t the main cultural influence in Brazil. It might be the dominant influence in certain areas of NE Brazil (ex: Bahia) where Yorubas were concentrated but not the country as a whole. I used to think that as well until my professor hipped me to the truth and I read up on it years ago. W central Af is the dominant source culture in Brazil more than perhaps anywhere else in the americas. The national music of Brazil is from there (Samba and all the other popular music forms), the national sport capoeira is from there, the most popular non-euro religions are from there (Umbanda and Espiritismo). Foreigners are just more familiar with the more overt Africanness of places like Bahia where Yoruba religion (Candomble) is prominent. But Umbanda and Espiritismo are likely more common:
quote:”Though statistics report that Candomblé and other African-derived religious participants are few in number—under 5% of the population—this fails to reflect the many Brazilians who are not initiates but who nonetheless may visit a practitioners (such as a healer), perhaps to address a challenge around health, money, or love. In fact, the 2010 census found that 13% of the Brazilian population claim to have more than one religion, usually Catholic and Umbanda or Catholic and Spiritist.” https://rlp.hds.harvard.edu/faq/african-derived-religions-brazil
I I
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: Of the approximately 388,000 Africans who landed in America, almost 92,000 (24 percent) were Senegambians. In the early decades of immigration to the Chesapeake region before 1700, there were more immigrants from Senegambia (almost 6,000) than from the Bight of Biafra (about 5,000), and they totaled about 31,000 by the end of the migration, representing almost a third of all arrivals from Senegambia. About 45,000 Senegambians were settled in the coastal Low Country of the Carolinas and Georgia, where they constituted 21 percent of African immigrants. Senegambians were also prominent among African immigrants in the northern colonies, accounting for about 28 percent of arrivals, or over 7,000 people. Almost 9,000 Senegambians — often identified as Bambara or Mandingo — went to the Gulf region, especially to Louisiana, where they constituted about 40 percent of the population arriving from Africa.
You do realize that data you posted above are coming from ports of embarkation which is the same data that you told me earlier weren’t “good enough”, right? Using ship port data is standard in the study of the slave trade to show ethnic provenance of slaves on the macro level instead of anecdotes which can easily give false impression and can be cherry picked. There’re scarcely any other data sources. The louisisana ethnic database compiled by Midlo-Hall is one notable exception but even that only gives a non-random sample of the overall Louisiana data. There’re problems with ship data of course but they’re still extremely useful. You should notify the professionals who’ve been studying the slave trade for several decades now that the core data they’ve been using isn’t “good enough” and reveal the data sources that are comprehensive and more accurate as you presumably suggest.
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: Hence, people from Senegambia were prominent everywhere in the United States, much more so than virtually anywhere else in the Western Hemisphere, although there were also considerable numbers of Senegambians in the French Caribbean islands and in French Guiana. Senegambia was strongly influenced by Islam, more so than any other region of origin, which means that many enslaved Africans in the United States had been exposed to Islam, more so proportionately than in the rest of the Americas. There were many Muslims in Brazil in the nineteenth century, mostly in Bahia, but they came from the central Sudan (northern Nigeria and adjacent areas), unlike those who were sent to the United States. Muslims were clearly present in both the low country of Carolina and Georgia and in the Tidewater region of Virginia and Maryland. Adult Muslim males stand out prominently, while there are very few references to Muslim women. This reflects what is known about the slave trade originating in the interior of West Africa, which was composed almost entirely of males."[/i]
^^^This source even states that Sahelians were more prominent in the USA than other parts of the diaspora. And other point raw numbers=/=percentage. [/QUOTE]
I I posted data encompassing the entire slave trade. How do the snippet comments you posted above trump that? Yes I’ve already agreed Sahelians were more prominent in the US than elsewhere in Americas but that difference was small is what I said. Show us the data that show otherwise then. Not sure what you mean by “And other point raw numbers=/=percentage.”
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