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Author Topic: Were nomes tribes?
Oshun
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I was reading some stuff from a book (which if memory serves is purty old). I wanted some updated information, and any resources on this issue, if what it's saying is remotely correct. It described tribes in the predynastic that were assigned nomes and nomarchs during the dynastic period. Then it says something like these tribes having their own totems and gods. So, did each nome kind of have a tribal identity? Were the nomarchs former/modern concepts of chiefs? and if so, how long did that kind of tribal identity within Egypt last for? Because if this is true, Egypt was composed of 40+ dominant tribes that answered to the pharaoh...
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Clyde Winters
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Check out this site http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=005932

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C. A. Winters

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Itoli
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What support did they give for that?
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Oshun
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That's just the thing, it didn't say where this information was sourced, so I was looking to see if anyone else found any sources that would agree/disagree with what they were saying:

quote:
The Pre-Dynastic Period, which we suppose extended from about 5000 b. c., or earlier, until about 3400 b. c., is the period before that covered by Manetho's dynasties. At the beginning of this period Egypt was divided into 42 districts, which the Egyptians called spt or hsp, and which the Greeks afterwards called nomes. Each nome was occupied by a different tribe, which at the first lived in isolation from the other tribes. Each tribe had its god, to which an animal was sacred. This condition prevailed for so many centuries that the customs of this time became permanently fixed.

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Itoli
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Sound like an assumption based off the shared cultures in various Nomes. Notice they mention the religions but shared religion doesn't necessitate shared origin.
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Fourty2Tribes
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Abd'el Hakim Awyan made that argument.
http://www.khemitology.com/khemitology/


quote:
The people of ancient Khemit, referred to later as Sesh, became the original 42 tribes of Africa who, recognizing their connectedness to all that is, considered themselves equal in every way. People we now refer to as Hebrews, Tibetans, Russians, Europeans and the many tribes of our Black African Nations, were all, according to the indigenous tradition, originally tribes of ancient Khemit. These were a highly advanced people, who, utilizing 360 natural senses, were capable of great feats of manifestation, alchemy, and trans-dimensional journeying. They had no need of a written or oral language, or the confines of labels, and lived peacefully and naturally with the rhythms, energies and frequencies of their environment and the cosmos.

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Oshun
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Hi guys I figured that it's worth noting that at least during the pre dynastic and early dynastic, Egypt was not unified and didn't have a consciousness as such, so what was there then? Saying that, I hear these theories about tribes spreading, but what is the evidence that there was differentiation that would constitute tribes?

This site for example has put fourth the argument that the Temehu were indigenous to Egypt and that lower Egypt even bears the same name (Tameh'et), implying that Libyans/Berbers could've been very populous in the Delta.


quote:
This simple fact was known to many scholars and Egyptologists, like Sir Alan Gardiner who has noted that the name of the Libyan tribe Temeh'w means “Lower Egypt” as well as the “Delta”, whence mh's “the crown of Lower Egypt”. The name was also mentioned as Henet-Temehu, the princess daughter of Thenet-Hep, the wife of Ahmose I, which further illustrates the Libyan element in the Egyptian dynasties, as we shall see below.
quote:


From the first dynasty onwards the Libyans continued their attempts to reclaim Lower Egypt. During the start of the dynastic period the name Tehenu was found inscribed on the "Narmar Palette" and also reappeared during the second and the third dynasties (2778- 2723 BC), when, according to Manetho, the Libyans continued the struggle against the invading Pharaohs and particularly against Nefer-Ka-Re.

https://www.temehu.com/Temehu.htm

Some

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the questioner
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Nomes is a Greek term
the correct term would be sepat

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Questions expose liars

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Ekwensu007
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
Nomes is a Greek term
the correct term would be sepat

In Igbo the word would be "isi obodo". Head of the city/nation/ancestral home or "capital city".

Kemet was treated as 42 capital cities. "Totems" are indigenous banking institutions and centers of commerce, financing, taxation, scientific research etc. you name it.

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King of My Own Tribe.

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Doug M
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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
I was reading some stuff from a book (which if memory serves is purty old). I wanted some updated information, and any resources on this issue, if what it's saying is remotely correct. It described tribes in the predynastic that were assigned nomes and nomarchs during the dynastic period. Then it says something like these tribes having their own totems and gods. So, did each nome kind of have a tribal identity? Were the nomarchs former/modern concepts of chiefs? and if so, how long did that kind of tribal identity within Egypt last for? Because if this is true, Egypt was composed of 40+ dominant tribes that answered to the pharaoh...

From Fetish to God in ancient Egypt is the best book on this by Wallace Budge.

As for "tribes" all populations around the planet were organized into "tribes" before civilization started. But we don't know the details about all of the sepats in AE and how they were created. Some were definitely named after "tribes" as in the first Sepat: Ta Seti, which was named after the culture in the area that may have also been called Ta Seti. Other than that, nobody knows for sure how the nome names correlate with specific pre dynastic populations and or deities outside specific notable examples.

In general many African populations had "fetishes", icons or totems they used to represent their deities in some fashion. You can find this across Africa and in East Africa. So to me it is just a continuation of African rituals and traditions.

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Linda Fahr
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To Fourty2Tribes

Was one of these tribes out of Africa the people Ga, which are living in West Africa?
I found the name "Gana" in India. They were mentioned in Vedas as warriors, beside other functions. Then, I look for them at the Yogini temples, because a Hindu Priest told me that were African females that introduced yoga in India.

I founded many similarities among Yoginis of India and the Shai (SE)girls from the Ga people in Ghana. Now...when they arrived in India, I don't know yet. Their circular temples were built in 1000s AD.

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---lnnnnn*

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Linda Fahr
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By the way, instead concentrate and guessing on ancient Egyptians why not take a good look at "Mbo" people from Cameron? You will be surprised with their ancient kingdom achievements by the Black Sea. You will be delighted of what they became in ancient times. Unfortunately, did them lost their kingdoms, because they slavered people in their kingdoms by the Black Sea, causing revolt among their ancient white serfs?

I do not depend only on ancient Egyptians, and Khoisanss around the world. Instead, I go to Subsahara regions, and carefully study their art work, culture, and anatomy. Not all of them left Africa, or stay in East and North Africa.


Here is some new information I read from Mbo people DNA test. They are one the oldest people in the world. Old then Khoisans?

In 2013, discovery of a previously unknown Y-chromosomal haplogroup, dubbed haplogroup A00 was announced. First found in the Y-chromosome of an African American male submitted for commercial genealogical analysis, the haplogroup was identified in eleven Y chromosomes of Mbo males (out of a sample of 174, corresponding to 6.3%). The discovery of this ancestral division of "haplogroup A00" from A0-P305 pushes back the estimation of the age of Y-chromosomal Adam, the most recent ancestor through direct paternal lines of all humans currently alive to 254,000 years ago.

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---lnnnnn*

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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:

That's just the thing, it didn't say where this information was sourced, so I was looking to see if anyone else found any sources that would agree/disagree with what they were saying:

quote:
The Pre-Dynastic Period, which we suppose extended from about 5000 b. c., or earlier, until about 3400 b. c., is the period before that covered by Manetho's dynasties. At the beginning of this period Egypt was divided into 42 districts, which the Egyptians called spt or hsp, and which the Greeks afterwards called nomes. Each nome was occupied by a different tribe, which at the first lived in isolation from the other tribes. Each tribe had its god, to which an animal was sacred. This condition prevailed for so many centuries that the customs of this time became permanently fixed.

This is the common theory held by most Egyptologists regarding the origins of Egyptian culture. This theory by the way, happens to be based on the study of other cultures in Africa where districts of a nation were once tribal domains with their own local customs, deities, and fetishes.
quote:
Originally posted by Itoli:

Sound like an assumption based off the shared cultures in various Nomes. Notice they mention the religions but shared religion doesn't necessitate shared origin.

It's not just shared religion, but also shared customs, totems, etc. Even the people of a sepat were keen about their own identity versus people of other sepati which only reinforces the theory that these were originally tribes. By the way,the same theory can be held of other nations from other cultures outside of Africa e.g. the 12 districts of Israel were founded by 12 tribes, the 30 wards of Rome were founded by 30 tribes etc.

The Egyptians' own history documents how the first (human) kings rose to power from certain cities of certain sepat who then began to coalesce other sepati under their power. This was the process through which Ta-Shemau (Upper Egypt) was unified into a single nation and then later on Ta-Mehu (Lower Egypt) was incorporated into a united Kmt.

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Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan.

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Fourty2Tribes
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quote:
Originally posted by Linda Fahr:
To Fourty2Tribes

Was one of these tribes out of Africa the people Ga, which are living in West Africa?
I found the name "Gana" in India. They were mentioned in Vedas as warriors, beside other functions. Then, I look for them at the Yogini temples, because a Hindu Priest told me that were African females that introduced yoga in India.

I founded many similarities among Yoginis of India and the Shai (SE)girls from the Ga people in Ghana. Now...when they arrived in India, I don't know yet. Their circular temples were built in 1000s AD.

I missed this question. I'm curious about the similarities.

I assume that all of these modern tribes are new except Batwa.

I judge the internet search knowledge of the origin of the Ga with skepticism. Whenever I hear people saying that they were the Hebrews I have to ask what's a Hebrew.I don't rule it out but I think its more likely that their ancestors farmed the lands of Yam in western Chad before the desert expanded.

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Oshun
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So Ta Seti being an ethnic group and nome would qualify as proof these nomes could correspond to specific ethnic identities?
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Linda Fahr
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To Fourty2Tribes

Their similarities among the Shai SE girls from West Africa and Yoginis of India, are:

Their clothes design
Their hats, are the same design.
Some of Indian Yoginis had an Afro Hair.
The movement of the Yoginis arms and legs in their sculptures remind the dance movements of Shai SE girls.
Their body anatomy are very similar as well.

I believe their temples were older than 1100A.D
It was constructed in very rudimentary style, with massive blocs of stone on top of another, reminding stone age. Similar to the constructions of Temples of Malta. The differences are in the art style, and the interior of the temples which seems like was not built as a residence, but an statement of female power and control which their images were made to be adored by the local people as Goddess. Until today, they are adored as Goddess. Indians, males and females go to their temples to bring offering such as flowers and food, placed by the feet of the female Yoginis.

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---lnnnnn*

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Fourty2Tribes
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Sorta reminds me of how neck rings and filed teeth are found with certain African, Asian, and American populations.
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Linda Fahr
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Fourty2Tribes,

I am aware of these similarities among ancient people across the world.

Besides other related factors, I am specifically focused on a Yogines Temple architectural concept, located at Mitawli Village, in the state of Madhya Pradesh-India.

Starting with the Village's name "Mitawli", which it's prefix "Mita" is historically original from West Africa - Bamileke people of Cameroon. Nowadays common in the Middle East(Iraq) since ancient Assyrians, South Asia, Italy, and few other regions. Bamileke people, is an admixture of Bantu ethnicity.

Studying Subsaharan tribal architecture, to see if I could find any similarity to the Mitawli Yogines Temple, I found one very old tribal palace, which has the same architectural and artistic concepts, including their wall sculptures sets decoration and positions, in a village of Bamilek people in Cameroon.

Actually, I am exhilarated with the foundation of a High tech Montagnes University in their region in Cameroon. I can't wait to see their progress on future innovations in Mathematics,Computer Science, Biomedical engineering, Renewable Energy and Environmental Engineering.

If the Yogines Goddness introduced Yoga, and provided education in astrology and mathematics in their Temples, why not do that now in their homeland?

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---lnnnnn*

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