TL:DR; he doesn't seem to be a fan of Bauval's ideas about Nabta Playa and archaeoastronomy.
But he does have this to say about the "Black Egypt" issue:
quote:What is one to make of discussions of the “race” of the Egyptians in terms of a “Negroid-Hamitic race of black-skinned people with fine Caucasian-like features,” even when attributed to Victorian science? The authors ask us to accept that the ancient Egyptians were “Black Africans” and that to do otherwise is “racist” and “Eurocentric.” The authors, though, treat all “Black” people as though they were one and the same—as though the Nubians, West Africans, and Southern Africans were identical, despite the obvious range of physical traits displayed among them. Modern scientific studies suggest that ancient Egyptians were related to East African and Nubian populations. Bauval and Brophy want us to view this academic consensus about the ultimate origins of the Egyptians as both shocking and as a thesis the authors are uniquely advocating against a racist academic mainstream.
So the reviewer doesn't really disagree with the core position most of us on ES hold, at least.
posted
Bauval had good intentions, but it looks like he was kinda wrong, even in some of his ideas about the 'racial' composition of Nabta Playa and their relationship to Egypt. His grounds for linking the people of Nabta Playa to later Egyptians were not based on actual skeletal remains from Nabta Playa, but on skeletal remains from what he said was a "nearby cemetery". I didn't know anything about that cemetery at the time, and IIRC, Bauval was one of the first writers who talked about this population, so props to him for that. That cemetery he was talking about is Gebel Ramlah.
It's true that the people of Gebel Ramlah have some affinities to predynastics (e.g. non-metrically they have a link to some Naqadans, especially). However, the same thing cannot be said about the skeletal remains found at Nabta Playa, which are much more distinctly African in morphology. They're probably Nilo-Saharan or a closely related population.
If you want to look into it, look up the following skeletal remains:
E-91-01 (more or less complete skeleton) E-75-8 (mandible)
I don't think Bauval's book would have come out like that if it were published, today.
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posted
The biggest supporters of the Nabta Playa connection to Egypt were folks like Fred Wendor and Christopher Ehret. And they were more looking at from a cultural perspective, linguistic perspective and more along the lines of a migration to the Nile from a drying Sahara point of view. They were also some of the first to talk about early cattle pastoralism in the Africa separate from the Near East. The biggest piece of evidence being the stone circles and the shrines of cattle worshp which they suggested were ancestral to later Nile Valley cultural traditions in dynastic KMT. So this isn't really new at all.
As far as race goes, nobody talks about the "race" of the pre Roman populations of Italy or the "race" of the populations in Greece prior to ancient Greece. All of these populations are ASSUMED by both lay people and scholars to be European and therefore white. Same thing with ancient cultures in the Han River Valley of Asia. Somehow though in Africa and along the Nile suddenly this becomes a "hot topic" as if one should ASSUME that there were "different races" walking around in the Nile Valley and Sahara..... And of course let someone try that in Europe or Asia and see what happens.
And we know where that comes from. No need to pretend like it is a mystery.
And there actually is another book by Toby Wilkinson that focuses on the Eastern Deserts as the origin of the AE.
So for all those who like to claim folks are objective and rational about AE origins just look what this book intro says itself:
quote: For generations, tourists, scholars, and armchair travelers have beenintrigued by the puzzle of the ancient Egyptians' origins. Was civilization brought to the Nile Valley by invaders from other lands, even refugees from Atlantis? Or did civilization develop, over a long period, within Egypt itself? Most archaeologists favor the latter theory, yet nagging doubts have always remained because many of ancient Egypt's most distinctive elements seem to have appeared quite suddenly, as if from nowhere.
Now the quest for the elusive "missing link" is finally over, and, in the light of dramatic new discoveries, the genesis of the pharaohs is coming into focus. Ancient Egypt, it seems, did not begin by the banks of the Nile but in a much harsher environment. The ancestors of the pyramid-builders were not village-dwelling farmers but wandering cattle-herders, and pharaonic civilization was forged in a remote region, one of the most forbidding places on earth. These are the startling conclusions of Egyptologist Toby Wilkinson, based on his own discoveries in the heart of the Eastern Desert, between the Nile Valley and the Red Sea. Here, the pharaohs' distant ancestors left a stunning legacy that has remained hidden for 6,000 years: hundreds of intricate rock carvings that tell us about their lifestyle and their deepest beliefs. Pharaonic imagery such as the afterlife journey by boat, royal hunting, and the iconography of gods and kings all find their origins in this inhospitable terrain.
Genesis of the Pharaohs traces the discovery of these ancient records, dates them, and identifies the artists who made them. As the story unfolds, we travel back in time to a remarkable early period of human creativity and discover the answer to the question of where, when, and how ancient Egypt began.
quote:Originally posted by Tyrannohotep: I recently found this four-part review of Robert Bauval's book [I]Black Genesis[/url] by skeptical blogger Jason Colavito:
TL:DR; he doesn't seem to be a fan of Bauval's ideas about Nabta Playa and archaeoastronomy.
But he does have this to say about the "Black Egypt" issue:
quote: The authors ask us to accept that the ancient Egyptians were “Black Africans” and that to do otherwise is “racist” and “Eurocentric.” The authors, though, treat all “Black” people as though they were one and the same—as though the Nubians, West Africans, and Southern Africans were identical, despite the obvious range of physical traits displayed among them.
So the reviewer doesn't really disagree with the core position most of us on ES hold, at least.
So that means the core position most ES hold is Nubians, West Africans, and Southern Africans were identical?
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posted
^ No, but apparently it means that you lioness are illiterate which confirms one of many things about you.
Anyway T-hotep, while the critic may have reasonable opinions I can't help but feel that while he acknowledges that African populations are not a monolith he seems to have a problem with a commonality existing between them.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Bauval had good intentions, but it looks like he was kinda wrong, even in some of his ideas about the 'racial' composition of Nabta Playa and their relationship to Egypt. His grounds for linking the people of Nabta Playa to later Egyptians were not based on actual skeletal remains from Nabta Playa, but on skeletal remains from what he said was a "nearby cemetery". I didn't know anything about that cemetery at the time, and IIRC, Bauval was one of the first writers who talked about this population, so props to him for that. That cemetery he was talking about is Gebel Ramlah.
It's true that the people of Gebel Ramlah have some affinities to predynastics (e.g. non-metrically they have a link to some Naqadans, especially). However, the same thing cannot be said about the skeletal remains found at Nabta Playa, which are much more distinctly African in morphology. They're probably Nilo-Saharan or a closely related population.
If you want to look into it, look up the following skeletal remains:
E-91-01 (more or less complete skeleton) E-75-8 (mandible)
I don't think Bauval's book would have come out like that if it were published, today.
LOL Yeah I too have heard Bauval's reference to a predynastic cemetery but didn't know it was Gebel Ramlah. There's an excellent source on the burial site here. Note that in the paper I just cited it says "From a physical anthropological viewpoint, the population sample exhibits evidence of North African and sub-Saharan admixture." So perhaps the site represents a meeting point between the populations related to Naqada and those of Nabta Kiseiba though according to the paper, the overall culture of Gebel Ramlah was Nabtan.
Archaeologically though, we know that the roots of pharaonic culture lie in the Naqada Culture NOT Nabta, and recent findings show Naqada origins lying in the Eastern Desert not the Western.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26353 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: The biggest supporters of the Nabta Playa connection to Egypt were folks like Fred Wendor and Christopher Ehret. And they were more looking at from a cultural perspective, linguistic perspective and more along the lines of a migration to the Nile from a drying Sahara point of view. They were also some of the first to talk about early cattle pastoralism in the Africa separate from the Near East. The biggest piece of evidence being the stone circles and the shrines of cattle worshp which they suggested were ancestral to later Nile Valley cultural traditions in dynastic KMT. So this isn't really new at all. http://www.springer.com/us/book/9780306466120
The problem with these scholars is that they are too keen on attributing any cultural advancement in the Nile Valley to ethnic Egyptians or Kmtwy. These same scholars are quick to distinguish North Africans from Sub-Saharans or Nile Valley peoples from peoples of other regions but when it comes to the Nile Valley peoples themselves they don't do as good a job distinguishing them. I'll have to give Maria Gatto credit at doing a better job in this department though she seem to have somewhat of an issue when it comes to A-Group Nubians from Naqadans.
quote:As far as race goes, nobody talks about the "race" of the pre Roman populations of Italy or the "race" of the populations in Greece prior to ancient Greece. All of these populations are ASSUMED by both lay people and scholars to be European and therefore white. Same thing with ancient cultures in the Han River Valley of Asia. Somehow though in Africa and along the Nile suddenly this becomes a "hot topic" as if one should ASSUME that there were "different races" walking around in the Nile Valley and Sahara..... And of course let someone try that in Europe or Asia and see what happens.
Exactly. European populations can be differentiated through racial terms like "Nordic" and "Mediterranean" yet nobody denies that they are all collectively considered "white", yet only when it comes to Africa is there a problem with calling North Africans like Egyptians as "black".
quote:And we know where that comes from. No need to pretend like it is a mystery.
Yeah, RACISM! While Bauval may be wrong on a few things at least he has the fortitude to call a spade a spade.
quote:And there actually is another book by Toby Wilkinson that focuses on the Eastern Deserts as the origin of the AE.
So for all those who like to claim folks are objective and rational about AE origins just look what this book intro says itself: For generations, tourists, scholars, and armchair travelers have beenintrigued by the puzzle of the ancient Egyptians' origins. Was civilization brought to the Nile Valley by invaders from other lands, even refugees from Atlantis? Or did civilization develop, over a long period, within Egypt itself? Most archaeologists favor the latter theory, yet nagging doubts have always remained because many of ancient Egypt's most distinctive elements seem to have appeared quite suddenly, as if from nowhere.
Now the quest for the elusive "missing link" is finally over, and, in the light of dramatic new discoveries, the genesis of the pharaohs is coming into focus. Ancient Egypt, it seems, did not begin by the banks of the Nile but in a much harsher environment. The ancestors of the pyramid-builders were not village-dwelling farmers but wandering cattle-herders, and pharaonic civilization was forged in a remote region, one of the most forbidding places on earth. These are the startling conclusions of Egyptologist Toby Wilkinson, based on his own discoveries in the heart of the Eastern Desert, between the Nile Valley and the Red Sea. Here, the pharaohs' distant ancestors left a stunning legacy that has remained hidden for 6,000 years: hundreds of intricate rock carvings that tell us about their lifestyle and their deepest beliefs. Pharaonic imagery such as the afterlife journey by boat, royal hunting, and the iconography of gods and kings all find their origins in this inhospitable terrain.
^ Well I for one have read Genesis of the Pharaohs and I must say Wilkinson actually does a good job in showing that the progenitors of Naqada culture while coming from the Eastern Desert are indeed very much African and even dispells old hypotheses that they were Asiatic migrants from across the Red Sea. He in many words states how the roots of Egyptian culture lie in the African continent among African people without delving into use of racial terminology.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26353 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I skimmed through the paper searching for the part where you say they talk about Nabta-Ramlah relationships, but can't find it. I might read it in full later on.
According to Wengrow et al 2014, both cultures are part of the primary pastoral community. So, there is at least that broad level of affinity between both cultures. It would be interesting to know if there is also more of a direct relationship beyond that general Nile Valley cultural relationship.
Gebel Ramlah's increase in population density may be related to a drop in population density in Nabta Playa. Possibly, the relationship could be due to migration from the latter to the former, or it could be due other reasons, like warfare (e.g cattle raids) between both sites. Nabta's increase in population density also seems to be related to a drop in population density at Kiseiba. See figure 2 in Wengrow et al 2014.
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