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Author Topic: Myth of an European race, Myth of Vandals and Celts
xyyman
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Myth of an European race, Myth of Vandals and Celts

I am not a history buff; and now I see that it is a good thing….not being a history buff and believing everything you read. Here a European is shedding light on the lies being spewed in our “history” books. As I said “ ancient genetics will make liars of historians”


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From:
BUSTING MYTHS OF ORIGIN by Ann Gibson

Summary
New studies show that there is no such thing as "pure" European—or anyone else. Almost all of us are the children of repeated ancient migrations, according to researchers who study ancient human origins. Indigenous Europeans, for example, descend from at least three major migrations in the past 15,000 years, including two from the Middle East. Those migrants swept across Europe, mingled with previous immigrants, and then remixed to create the peoples of today. Using revolutionary new methods to analyze DNA and the isotopes found in bones and teeth, scientists are exposing the tangled roots of peoples around the world, as varied as Germans, ancient Philistines, and Kashmiris. Few of us are actually the direct descendants of the ancient skeletons found in our backyards or historic homelands. Only a handful of groups today, such as Australian Aborigines, have deep bloodlines unaffected by mixing with immigrants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LacD_JOI04&feature=youtu.be

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xyyman
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--
Wind back the clock more than a thousand years—a
trivial slice of time compared with the 200,000 years or so
since our species emerged— and stories of exclusive heritage
or territory crumble. “Basically, everybody’s myth is wrong, even the indigenous groups’,” says population geneticist
David Reich of Harvard University.



After Tacitus’s account resurfaced in the 15th century, German nationalists resurrected
the myth of Arminius, who is often depicted as a blond, muscular young chieftain
and known as Hermann. Hailed as the first “German” hero, he was said to have united the Germanic tribes and driven the Romans
from their territory. That was considered the start of a period when fearsome Germanic
tribes such as the Vandals swept around Europe, wresting territory from Romans

and others.

In the 20th century, the Nazis added their own dark spin to that origin story, citing
Arminius as part of an ancient pedigree of a “master race” from Germany and northern
Europe that they called Aryans.
They used their view of prehistory and archaeology to
justify claims to the tribes’ ancient homelands in Poland and Austria.
Scholars agree that there was indeed a real battle that sent shock waves through the Roman
Empire, which then stretched from the island of Britain to Egypt. But much of the
rest of Arminius’s story is myth
: The Romans persisted deep in Germania until at least the
third century C.E., as shown by the recent discovery of a third-century Roman battlefield
in Harzhorn, Germany. And Arminius by no means united the more than 50 Germanic
tribes of the time.
He persuaded five tribes to join him in battle, but******** members of
his own tribe soon killed him******
. Moreover, Arminius and his kin were not
pure “Aryan,”
if that term means a person whose ancestors lived solely in what is now
Germany or Scandinavia. The Cherusci tribe, like all Europeans of their day and later, were
themselves composites, built from serial migrations
into the heart of Europe and then repeatedly remixed. “The whole concept of
an ethnic German … it’s ludicrous when you look at
the longue durée [long time] scale,”
says archaeologist Aren Maeir of Bar-Ilan University in Ramat Gan, Israel.

That was just one of many episodes of migration and mixing. The first Europeans came from Africa via the Middle East and settled there about 43,000 years ago. But some of those pioneers,
such as a 40,000-year-old individual from Romania, have little connection to today’s Europeans, Reich says.

***Farther north, the Irish Book of Invasions, ****written by an anonymous author in the 11th century, recounts that the
“Sons of Mí l Espá ine … after many wanderings in Scythia and Egypt” eventually reached Spain and Ireland, creating a
modern Irish people distinct from the British—and linked to the Spanish. That telling resonates with a later yarn about
ships from the Spanish Armada, wrecked on the shores of Ireland and the Scottish Orkney Islands in 1588, Bradley says: “Good-looking, dark-haired
Spaniards washed ashore” and had children with Gaelic and Orkney Islands women, creating a strain of Black Irish with dark hair, eyes, and skin.


Although it’s a great story, Bradley says, it “just didn’t happen.” In two studies, researchers
have found only “a very small ancient Spanish contribution” to British and Irish
DNA, says human geneticist Walter Bodmer of the University of Oxford in the United
Kingdom, co-leader of a landmark 2015 study of British genetics.



The Irish also cherish another origin story, of the Celtic roots they are said to
share with the Scots and Welsh
. In the Celtic Revival of the 19th and 20th centuries,
writers such as William Butler Yeats drew from stories in the Book of Invasions and
medieval texts.
Those writings described a migration of Gaels, or groups of Celts from the mainland who clung to their identity in
the face of later waves of Roman, Germanic, and Nordic peoples.



*****But try as they might, *****researchers so far haven’t found anyone, living or dead, with a
distinct Celtic genome. The ancient Celts got their name from Greeks who used “Celt” as
a label for barbarian outsiders—the diverse Celtic-speaking tribes who, starting in the
late Bronze Age, occupied territory from Portugal to Turkey.
“It’s a hard question who the
Celts are,” says population geneticist Stephan Schiffels of the Max Planck Institute for the
Science of Human History in Jena, Germany. Bodmer’s team traced the ancestry of
2039 people whose families have lived in the same parts of Scotland, Northern Ireland,
and Wales since the 19th century. These people form at least nine genetic and geographic
clusters, showing that after their ancestors arrived in those regions, they put down roots
and married their neighbors. But the clusters themselves are of diverse origin, with close
ties to people now in Germany, Belgium, and France. “‘Celtic’ is a cultural definition,”
Bodmer says. “It has nothing to do with hordes of people coming from somewhere
else and replacing people.”



“Ethnic groups in the past and present create an ‘imagined past’ of the longtime and ‘pure’ origins of their group,”
Maeir says. But that created past often has “little true relation to the historical processes” that actually created the group, he says.

----

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xyyman
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I am curious what is the “Book of Invasions and Medieval Text” written by an anonymous person? And why would Europeans put so much faith in it?

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xyyman
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anonymity. is a booooitch...but their world is a lie written by.....anonymity.

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capra
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The Book of Invasions is a collection of legends written by some monk in the Middle Ages. Of course no one thinks it's accurate, most people have never heard of it.

When it comes to dubious oral traditions of national origins historians are generally very skeptical; there may or may not be some historical basis to them. Much like, say, West or South Africans who claim to come from Egypt or Yemen.

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Clyde Winters
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David Reich of Harvard University and the Max plank Institute promote racism and an ancient "white" Europe. We know who the Celts are, because they were Blacks they prefer to promote the myth Europe was a "white" continent.

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C. A. Winters

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xyyman
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HA! Ha! Ha! Touche!

But we have genetic proof of the West African connection to the Amarnas and Skoglund charts etc

quote:
Originally posted by capra:
[Q] The Book of Invasions is a collection of legends written by some monk in the Middle Ages. Of course no one thinks it's accurate, most people have never heard of it.

When it comes to dubious oral traditions of national origins historians are generally very skeptical; there may or may not be some historical basis to them. Much like, say, West or South Africans who claim to come from Egypt or Yemen. [/]



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Andromeda2025
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Reich and Co. can't isolate the Celtic gene but they can isolate the Jewish gene? Ok....
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xyyman
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We know the genetic data emerging do NOT support the archaeological interpretation and what is being taught in European Academia. But what I can’t wrap my head around is what the F is going on in the minds of these people. The so called rational and objective lberal types. Are they drinking the cool-aid? Their belief system is based upon a ….novel ? Talk about a mind F …that worked. That belief system changed the entire world.

Fortunately the Universe is righting itself. Disorder is being replaced by Order. China, India…Africa. Not in our lifetime but within the next 100years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LacD_JOI04&feature=youtu.be

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capra
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quote:
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
Reich and Co. can't isolate the Celtic gene but they can isolate the Jewish gene? Ok....

What are you even talking about?
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Thereal
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If you ever seen one of those dna commercial online or on tv they point genes from places around the world and European Jewish is one of them.
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xyyman
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Guys we have a separate thread for Askenazi Jews and Druze etc we know who they are...

The topic is European Myths taught as "factual history"

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Thereal
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I was answer his questions, I wasn't coming of the topic.
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xyyman
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This was posted by Kel (can't rememebr his moniker here on ES before he was kicked out - edit: Got it Kdolo)

quote: Even hen they admit the "truth"they still lie. It looks like the admissions exist to prevent people looking into even bigger lies. In intelligence circles, it is called a 'limited hangout'.

"The first Europeans came from Africa via the Middle East and settled there about 43,000 years ago."

This is a LIE or distortion. The First Euros came from Africa via Gibralter and island hopping from North Africa across the Mediterranean .....much like the refugees are doing today.

What is the big lie ?? that perhaps like Mike says, until relatively recently the indigenous peoples "Celts" et al of Europe were Black and were wiped out, expelled, amalgamated by the invading Whites.

Read more: http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/2633/myth-european-race-vandals-celts?page=1#ixzz55bv56Yn8


---


my response

I like you Kel. You are on point.

"Even hen they admit the "truth"they still lie.

Reading the piece they admit their lies and replace it with more lie. A really fugked up people! Fascinating. They have the Universe in disorder. They just can't come clean!

I never knew there was a word for it...."'limited hangout'.
"


Read more: http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/2633/myth-european-race-vandals-celts?page=1#ixzz55bvQZTUU

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capra
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yeah sorry. very briefly and simplistically the more inbred the group the more genetically distinctive it is, Ashkenazi (and Sephardi) Jews descend from a relatively small founding population and have been fairly endogamous through most of history so their autosomal ancestry is relatively distinctive. This does not apply to *all* Jewish groups, who are found everywhere from China and India to Yemen and East Africa. Celts settled from Portugal to Turkey in the Iron Age and since have almost everywhere changed languages and assimilated to and intermarried with speakers of other languages. In both cases you could find some particular genetic variants, like certain Y chromosome subclades, which were originally associated with Jews or Celts 2500 years ago, which would tell you some subset of people with Jewish or Celtic ancestry, but it wouldn't really be a "Jewish" or "Celtic" gene.

European myths aren't taught as factual history. Since you don't even read history books, xyyman, you obviously wouldn't know.

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Clyde Winters
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The Celts were Blacks. See https://www.africaresource.com/rasta/articles/the-ancient-celts-and-vikings-were-black-people-by-dr-clyde-winters/comment-page-1/

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C. A. Winters

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Doug M
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European "history" is a weapon of war and conquest even when it comes to their own history. This goes back to the Greeks, whose writings almost always focused on war, like the Trojan war. Then it continues after Alexanders conquests when Greek "thinkers" suddenly got so smart as a result of travelling all over Africa, the Levant and India and acquiring knowledge from these places. The writings of Herodatus and others is talking primarily about these places, which means the conqueror telling the story about the conquered. The Romans then conquered the Greeks and then passed down their histories to us which is a record of all the peoples they fought and conquered in Europe and elsewhere. From this comes the European view that civilization itself starts with war because civilization was brought to them via war, starting with the Romans, then the Huns and then the Muslims.

And from all of that comes the colonial system of miseducation of which anthropology, archaeology and history are all parts of. They all promote the same narrative that civilization is "western" when no part of civilization started in the West. And as part of that mythology Europeans are the most advanced and "superior" of all humans because of their "genetic uniqueness" which is a fraud. In reality the Europeans like to bend the facts in order to be as inclusive as possible so they can lay claim to achievements THEY had nothing to do with. This is why they are so determined to make ancient North Africa a result of "Eurasian" back migration. That implies that somehow or someway it has something to do WITH THEM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnqS7G3LmMo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk65TbJRN_A

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the questioner
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quote:
Originally posted by capra:
The Book of Invasions is a collection of legends written by some monk in the Middle Ages. Of course no one thinks it's accurate, most people have never heard of it.

When it comes to dubious oral traditions of national origins historians are generally very skeptical; there may or may not be some historical basis to them. Much like, say, West or South Africans who claim to come from Egypt or Yemen.

please show us an old quote where an west or south African ever claimed to come from Egypt or Yemen

that is a informal fallacy

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Questions expose liars

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Thereal
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The lemba claimed they lived in Israel before heading to Africa because of war.
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capra
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ok, I know of no evidence that West or South Africans claimed to come from Egypt or Yemen before the recent past.
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xyyman
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They have created art of this mythological character and have it displayed in Museums around the Europe. Reminds me of the famous one of Alexander the Great and Richard III.

-----------+
Book on invasions:
Quote:
“Lebor Gabála Érenn (The Book of the Taking of Ireland) is a collection of poems and prose narratives that purports to be a history of Ireland and the Irish from the creation of the world to the Middle Ages.”

“Scholars believe the goal of its writers was to provide an epic history for Ireland that could compare to that of the Israelites or the Romans,”
“For many centuries LGE was accepted without question as an accurate and reliable account of the history of Ireland
” While most scholars view the work as primarily myth rather than history, some have argued that it is loosely based on real events
“In The White Goddess (1948), British poet and mythologist Robert Graves argued that myths brought to Ireland centuries before the introduction of writing were preserved and **transmitted accurately** by word of mouth before being written down in the Christian Era.[17] Taking issue with Macalister, with whom he corresponded on this and other matters, he declared some of LGE's traditions "archaeologically plausible".[18] The White Goddess itself has been the subject of much criticism by archeologists and historians.”
“his own view that LGE was a conflation of two originally independent works: a History of the Gaedil, modelled after the history of the Israelites as set forth in the Old Testament, “


Digital images of the manuscript can be viewed on Irish Script on Screen. https://www.isos.dias.ie/

myth of Arminius
 -

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All fake but displayed in Museums around the world as real. Shown on TV as real while most Europeans don’t know they are all fake. They are taught lies as being the truth by their parents?


FAKE!

https://publicdomainvectors.org/en/free-clipart/Alexander-the-Great-portrait/69690.html

 -


FAKE!!
 -

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xyyman
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Even today…..

More Myths published as being real

Fake Neanderthal displayed in museums around the world.

 -


The Real Neanderthal Phenotype has actual been known since 2012. Black Skin, Black eyes, black hair.

Predicting Homo pigmentation phenotype through genomic data: from Neanderthal to... | Request PDF. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221696951_Predicting_Homo_pigmentation_phenotype_through_genomic_data_from_Neanderthal_to_James_Watson [].

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Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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xyyman
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Identifications of Ancient Egyptian Royal Mummies from the 18th Dynasty Reconsidered M.E. Habicht, A.S. Bouwman, and F.J. R€uhli*
Institute of Evolutionary Medicine, University of Zurich, CH 8057, Switzerland

Quote:
“Woodward made the first attempt at genetic analyses of some of these mummies, but the results remained
unpublished;
however, some information was only shown in a documentary movie (Woodward et al., 2001; Habicht,
2014b, pp 52–53, 88; Marchant, 2014). He discovered inbreeding at the beginning and at the end of the
18th Dynasty and proposed that the mummy CG 61074 really is Amenhotep III. After the millennium, molecular
genetics opened a new door into the past, but the feasibility of acquiring authentic ancient DNA from Egyptian
mummies is still debated. Another project to obtain genetic profile of the Pharaohs by Sakuji Yoshimura was
turned down in 2000 (Marchant, 2014)
.”

“For the Tutankhamun Family project, such safety protocols were applied (Richards et al., 1995; Gad, 2010;
Gabolde, 2013a). Several facts speak clearly in favor of authentic aDNA:

The combination of nuclear data (Y- and autosomal chromosome–related markers) ****complemented ****each
other.”


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capra
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quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
 -

In school did they teach you that 19th century Romantic painters were time travellers who accurately depicted ancient people? I must have skipped that day.

quote:
 -
They sure show that in museums around the world. A masterpiece.

quote:
 -
Probably reasonably accurate, based on earlier portraits from life.

quote:
 -
We don't know what Neanderthals looked like. We don't even have that good a handle on *modern human* pigmentation alleles, never mind archaic ones. If low UV selects for lighter skin, which it sure seems to do, then it is plausible that they had light skin.
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xyyman
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Fool. The profile of Neanderthal has been published I linked it!!!!!!. WTF are you talking about? OH! That is not a portrait of Richard the III. Let Lioness explain. SMH. WHy do I bother?


Anyways...

To newbies. So do you understand why Woodward never published the DNA of the mummies back in 2001? STR profile was the norm back then. The 4 W’s never fail.

-----
Scott Woodward
Scott Ray Woodward[1] is a microbiologist and molecular biologist who specializes in genetic genealogy and ancient DNA studies. He was a professor at Brigham Young University (BYU) from 1989 to 2003. He was the president and principal investigator for the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation between 2005-2012, and served as Chief Scientific Officer from 2007-2012 at Genetree. He was the Executive Director of Genomic Study at Ancestry.com from 2012-2015. He currently teaches at Utah Valley University.[2] Woodward is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).

Woodward graduated from the College of Eastern Utah in 1978. He received his Ph.D. from the Utah State University, where he studied under Eldon Gardner. In 1989 he was made a professor at BYU. Early in his research career, he did DNA studies on Egyptian mummies[3] and the Dead Sea Scrolls.[4] He also led a team that worked to decipher dinosaur DNA.[5] Woodward was involved in the discovery of the first genetic marker for cystic fibrosis.

In 1991, Woodward was one of the BYU professors who suggested students be banned from driving cars to campus.[6]

Woodward has served as a visiting professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in 1994–1995.[10]

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xyyman
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You missed the point Capra. Can someone explain it to him why I posted THIS particular picture?

 -


Ok! Ok! I will. THEY ARE ALL FAKE. One is a bad portrait but they are all fake. Read the history behind this one….IT IS A FAKE POSTED AS BEING REAL. It is a Euro Myth!

 -

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xyyman
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That is what I don’t get with you white liberals. Just as misguided and brainless as the red necks. THINK MAN!

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Because someone who does shitty pictures in a paint program made Alexander blond hair and blue eyed and that triggers you?


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Actually he was an aged medieval king with a wooden submersible.

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Nevermind he was Persian.

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In fact he was a time-travelling mutant with horns.

It may shock and surprise you to learn that they didn't have photographs back in the day and most pictures were just what the artist thought someone should look like.

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Forty2Tribes
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
please show us an old quote where an west or south African ever claimed to come from Egypt or Yemen

that is a informal fallacy [/QB]

Lots of West and Southern Africa tribes say they came from the North, the Sudan, the Nile or Egypt.

I compiled a bunch of them.
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009687

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xyyman
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I just saw this comment. Why do I bother. The fool do not know that there were no portrait of Alexander nor Richard made WHEN THEY WERE ALIVE!!. NONE! In other words they are all fake. And you are the history major....SMH
Why do I bother?

quote:
Originally posted by capra:
[QUOTE]

[Q
[QUOTE]  -

Probably reasonably accurate, based on earlier portraits from life.

quote:
[



--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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Thereal
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Unless you're being rhetorical then I assume its done to guide people new to this information as it makes no sense otherwise if you feel that the available data is sufficient.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by capra:
 - Probably reasonably accurate, based on earlier portraits from life.


In November 2014, the results of the testing of Richeard III were announced, confirming that the maternal side was as previously thought.The paternal side, however, demonstrated some variance from what had been expected, with the DNA showing no links to the purported descendants of Richard's great-great-grandfather Edward III of England through Henry Somerset, 5th Duke of Beaufort. This could be the result of covert illegitimacy that does not reflect the accepted genealogies between Richard and Edward III or between Edward III and the 5th Duke of Beaufort. The remains of Richard III were found to be of Y DNA haplogroup G-P287


3% of North African Berbers were found to be haplogroup G. 2% of Arab Moroccans and 8% of Berber Moroccans were likewise found to be G.


Therefore Richard's father was North African and they destroyed all his portraits to cover this up.
There are many copies of paintings of Richard III but no paintings of him directly from life in existence.

classic cover up

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Dinkum
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Hitler was a NORTH AFRICAN BERBER in origin and strangely he doesnt look black, nor do millions of Berbers:
KABYLE BERBERS looking very white:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f1/97/3e/f1973e219540189d956f17db80dd39a5.jpg


Europeans go back 45 000 years and originated in the Middle East:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurignacian

About 8000 years ago the pale skin Middle Eastern Farmers migrated Europe. Todays Europeans carry majority of Haplogroups from this migration.

Celts and everyone else in ancient Europe carry the SAME Y-DNA as their ancient WHITE MIDDLE EASTERN FARMER ancestors.

There are tons and tons and tons of recreations of ancient European by Forensics and NONE of them show black Africans. And NO, the First European as portrayed as a black man has since changed to an Asian. The oldest European was found in ITALY and is dated 45 000 years.

So called First European recreated:
http://www.kenniskennis.com/images/site/443.jpg

CRO-MAGNON RECREATED LOOKING EXACTLY LIKE A MODERN EUROPEAN because thats exactly what he was:
https://media1.britannica.com/eb-media/97/44397-004-D45BC527.jpg

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xyyman
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Can you at least cite recent scholarly articles instead of drivel from ineducable bloggers or UFO-type sites. The pop-culture section may be more appropriate for you. SMH.

You may find your peers in other sections.

--------------------
Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming

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Snakepit1
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quote:
Originally posted by capra:
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
 -

In school did they teach you that 19th century Romantic painters were time travellers who accurately depicted ancient people? I must have skipped that day.

quote:

They sure show that in museums around the world. A masterpiece.

quote:

Probably reasonably accurate, based on earlier portraits from life.

quote:

We don't know what Neanderthals looked like. We don't even have that good a handle on *modern human* pigmentation alleles, never mind archaic ones. If low UV selects for lighter skin, which it sure seems to do, then it is plausible that they had light skin.

But if low UV supposedly selects for lighter pigmentation, then why is it that European Academia still try to make North Africa & the Near East white?
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capra
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dude, North Africa and the Near East *are* pretty much white, maybe you are from some alternate reality where university professors hose people down with skin-lightening cream? apparently white people survive just fine in that latitude.

what you are asking is why does skin tone only kinda sorta correlate with latitude, if there is strong selective pressure from UV. like, your average Filipino or Indonesian is nowhere near as dark as a Papuan at the same latitude, or a Guarani at the same latitude as an Australian Aborigine.

i don't know. one possibility is that there is some advantage of lighter skin that is constrained by high UV, like maybe it protects against some disease or other. or just producing lots of melanin is metabolically expensive (doesn't seem like it would be enough though).

also, obvs you can adapt to high UV behaviourally if you've already evolved light skin for whatever reason and then migrated somewhere more tropical, by basically wearing long loose clothes and a hat; or staying in the shade a lot, like if you live in forest or cloudy climate. which could explain Southeast Asians, because they are heavily descended from Chinese Neolithic farmers (and maybe that goes even further back to microblade makers), so they could have evolved the light skin way further north and never really lost it. same with Native Americans coming via the Bering Strait. but in the case of the Middle East the ancestral Neolithic people seem to come from the same latitude in the first place, so who knows.

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Dinkum
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No matter how Afrocentrics scream and cry. Celts and Vandals like the MAJORITY of EUROPEANS, originated in the WHITE MIDDLE EAST and carry overwhelmingly DNA that is MIDDLE EASTERN IN ORIGIN.
ORIGINS OF WHITE SKIN:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin

http://eurogenes.blogspot.co.za/2016/07/early-neolithic-genomes-from-eastern.html

Hell even the Canaanites were white looking just like modern Lebanese:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/233118

The true reality is, THE MIDDLE EASTERN FARMER DESCENDANTS are the originators of all the GREAT CIVILIZATION in the Mid East, India, Egypt, North Africa and Europe.


Some Northern Europeans, like the Finns carry a percentage of Y-DNA originating in East Asia.

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