posted
He so desperately wants to believe that Upper Egyptians were a minority even though it's beyond dispute that they were the majority until the New Kingdom period. The "Middle-eastern" type only started dominating long after Egypt was established by Upper Egyptians -- a population with a common origin with "Nubians" of Upper Egypt and Sudan.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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There are different subclades to a Haplogroup. For example, Cameroons men carry R1B which originated in the Middle East and is the main Y-DNA of Europe. They do not carry the same subclade as Europeans or Middle Eastern people. Also, their MTDNA is overwhelmingly Sub-Saharan African.
Indigenous Middle Eastern people carry overwhelmingly Eurasian Haplogroups. Whereas Sudanese, Nubians, Ethiopians carry some Eurasian Haplogroups, but their MTDNA is overwhelmingly Sub Saharan and that is why they do not resemble indigenous Mid East people.
Posts: 108 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2018
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All debunked nonsense. There was no "race-war" in "Nubia" 13k ago and there were no Middle-Eastern "Caucasians" in Upper Egypt fighting against "Sub-Saharans" in. the. Sahara. No evidence has been presented for such rot. E1b1a is African and this is the Y-DNA of the Pharaohs.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by capra: Doug, i don't care whether a European ever lived who looked anything like the bust of Queen Nefertiti. make yourself useful and add the Mangbetu to the Wikipedia article, why don't you.
You must care you replied to my comment. Doesn't sound like you would want me on wikipedia.
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When I read it at the time, I recognised Joel Irish’s biographical details but noticed that his name wasn’t given.
In November 2014 I spoke with Irish after he delivered a lecture at the British Museum. I presented him with a printout of the article and asked him whether he recognised it. He said that he did contribute to it but had asked not to be named because he didn’t want to be associated with it. He said this twice.
Daniel Antoine, a Bioarchaeologist at the Museum, who introduced me to Irish, and was present during our conversation, was also interviewed by David Keys for the article. Antoine said that speaking with him over the course of the interview, Keys had repeatedly fished for the race war angle. Antoine referred to the experience as a “nightmare”.
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quote:Originally posted by Dinkum: Nope, ancient Cultures of Lower Egypt were Middle Eastern and the first Culture of Upper Egypt was also Mid East in origin.
In fact, Mid East Caucasians have always lived in both Lower and Upper Egypt.
...Dynastic Egypt was from Sudan. Don't you realize in trying to make conflicts that many thousand years ago about race wars, you are putting your foot in your mouth? I guess not. And how was there a race war if 6,000-12,000 years ago is when light skin started spreading among humans in "Eurasia?"
quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: He so desperately wants to believe that Upper Egyptians were a minority even though it's beyond dispute that they were the majority until the New Kingdom period. The "Middle-eastern" type only started dominating long after Egypt was established by Upper Egyptians -- a population with a common origin with "Nubians" of Upper Egypt and Sudan.
It doesn't really matter whether they were or not. Were the Sudanese descended Egyptians that were living in Upper Egypt responsible for dynastic culture, yes or no? That is really the only relevant question. Because I bet he wouldn't be trying to make Rhodesia seem like a "black civilization" because the majority living there were.
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Dinkum: There are different subclades to a Haplogroup. For example, Cameroons men carry R1B which originated in the Middle East and is the main Y-DNA of Europe. They do not carry the same subclade as Europeans or Middle Eastern people. Also, their MTDNA is overwhelmingly Sub-Saharan African.
Do you have data on Cameroon MTDNA? And, even if it is overwhelmingly "Sub Saharan" if many of them are half R1B, why isn't their appearance more intermediate the way we would expect if half their ancestry came from white "Eurasians?" Some of the most mixed people in Cameroon visually meet the stereotype of how all blacks look.
This person is mixed with non African. I know West Africans that look more intermediate when compared against African stereotypes than him. Imagining a hypothetical world where "Eurasian" has to mean someone morphologically European, does this man look 50% "Eurasian" to you per that definition? So then what happened here?
quote:Indigenous Middle Eastern people carry overwhelmingly Eurasian Haplogroups. Whereas Sudanese, Nubians, Ethiopians carry some Eurasian Haplogroups, but their MTDNA is overwhelmingly Sub Saharan and that is why they do not resemble indigenous Mid East people.
Again, how do you determine that there is one way to look Middle Eastern? I read what you said about subclades, so are you suggesting that ethnic groups and individuals that share the same subclade cannot vary in greatly in visual appearances depending on the environment they live in over thousands of years? I'm trying to see if I get what you're saying correctly. Because you just saw images of Near Easterners that didn't look at all like Europeans. Many of these subclades also existed before or right around the time of the expansion of the lighter skin characteristic of modern Europeans. Any back migrants didn't have to have lighter skin, nor did they have to have any other features that are often labeled "Eurasian." Which again brings us to the point of how you know the southern Egyptians that founded dynastic Egypt looked like Europeans.
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At one time during the NEOLITHIC ERA Europeans, Middle Eastern people, Egyptians, North Africans and Central Asians LOOKED ALIKE. They had light skin and dark hair, eyes.
Muslim expansion and black slavery 1400 years ago, has caused people in the Saudi Arabia to carry more black African MTDNA and the discovery of oil has caused MASS MIGRATION from Africans and Indians from the Indian sub continent.
DNA SHOWS EXACTLY WHERE IN THE WORLD YOU ORIGINATED. If you carry Haplogroup J and are an Ethiopia, ITS NOT LIKELY YOU SUBCLADE WILL BE THE SAME AS MID EAST PEOPLES!!!
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The island of Socotra is found in the Gulf of Yemen. It has a LARGE AMOUNT of peoples who originally were runaway slaves. Does that make them the indigenous peoples of the Mid East? OH HELL NO>
They look like this: Posts: 108 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2018
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AGAIN AND AGAIN, the ancient mummies at Abusir el Meleq had light skin dark hair and eyes just like all the DNA taken from other mummies in Egypt and EXACTLY like modern Copts. They HAD NO SUB-SAHARAN DNA: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14615
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Nubians looking NOTHING like Copts. Why??? They carry OVERWHELMINGLY Sub-Saharan African DNA, thats why they are considered SUB-SAHARAN AFRICANS: Posts: 108 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2018
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ROFL at the idea that late period samples from Northern Egypt is the final verdict on ancient Egypt's origins. The non "Nubian" Upper Egyptians in Luxor, Esna, Edfu and Kom Ombo are far better representatives of the ancient Egyptians than the Copts.
People in these areas in Upper Egypt are descendants of those that created ancient Egypt and the Copts are most likely descendants of Levantines that migrated en mass into Egypt long after the Southerners established the civilization.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
Even if one were to believe the Wikipedia entry that predynastic Lower Egyptian cultures were Levantine and that the Copts are their descendants...that would still be insufficient because ancient Egypt started in Upper Egypt where the population has a common origin with the "Nubians" of Upper Egypt and the people of North Sudan
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Dinkum: AGAIN AND AGAIN, the ancient mummies at Abusir el Meleq had light skin dark hair and eyes just like all the DNA taken from other mummies in Egypt and EXACTLY like modern Copts. They HAD NO SUB-SAHARAN DNA: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14615
your link is about Scythians
from the actual paper: "Finally, we used two methods to estimate the fractions of sub-Saharan African ancestry in ancient and modern Egyptians.... Absolute estimates of African ancestry using these two methods in the three ancient individuals range from 6 to 15%, and in the modern samples from 14 to 21% depending on method and choice of reference populations."
rtfp
there is not enough coverage in the ancient samples or at this point even enough understanding of genetics of pigmentation for good prediction of skin colouring. the best coverage sample is JK2911, who is from the Late Period.
his genotype (per genetiker) is rs1426654-A (probably AA) in SLC24A5, rs16891982-CC in SLC45A2, and rs1042602-GG in TYR.
now rs1426654-A (light skin allele) is very common, most MENA people and virtually all Europeans have AA. Pakistanis have like 75% AA, North Indians 50% AA. even Ethiopians, Somalis, and South Indians have ~50-60% allele frequency, so ~30% AA (assuming Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium which we shouldn't really).
rs16891982-G (light skin allele) is less common outside of Europe but it is still pretty frequent in MENA. in Egypt varies from 14% in Aswan to 65% in Alexandria. mostly 50-60% in North Africa. it is only ~15% in North India, 6% in Bangladesh, and almost zero in the Horn. so CC which JK2911 has (homozygous for dark skin allele) would be found in most South Egyptians, South Asians, Horners, etc, but only 10-35% of North Africans.
rs1402602-A (light skin allele) has a somewhat different distribution, it has around 25-40% frequency in northern and middle Europe but reaches ~55% in Tuscans and Sardinians. it reaches almost 50% in Mozabite Berbers from Algeria and Druze from the Levant, ~30% in Arab populations from Israel. (i don't have data for the Horn or most of MENA. also sample sizes are rather small so don't take these AFs as precise.) also surprisingly common in Pakistan where it is about 25% in Sindhis, 30% in Pathans, and 50% in Kalash. so again JK2911 has GG (homozygous for dark skin allele) which only a minority of Mozabites and about half of Pakistanis and Israeli Arabs would have. no idea about Egypt.
now as far as these 3 genes go over 90% of Mozabites would be lighter-skinned than JK2911, as would most modern Delta Egyptians and Levantine Arabs. 30% of Horners would be as light. average Southern Egyptians or Pakistanis would be closest.
however even these three rather large-effect variants account for only a minority of the variation in human skin colour, so really could be anything from fairly dark brown to light olive.
but you could always look at paintings and mummy skin lol
Posts: 660 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2017
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These white Middle Eastern Farmers just went everywhere and replaced everyone:
Light skin that we see in modern Europeans didn't exist 30,000 years ago. So even if they'd been in Egypt, the phenotypes would've been different unless later back migrations happened. Not that it matters, since we've gone over and over that AE culture came from southern Egyptians migrating out of Sudan. Levanites from 30,000 years ago would not have likely looked as light as modern Europeans. Levanites from 6,000 years ago would've more likely looked that way, but there is more evidence to suggest they mostly settled in northern Egypt rather than southern Egypt Sudan (by that time). Copts are a mixture of northern Egyptian and Levanite migrants the same way Aswan and other parts of southern Egypt are mixtures of Southern Egyptians, some northern influences and other Sudanese people. Northern Egypt would've experienced multiple waves of Levanite influence before the dynastic period, and the Delta wouldn't strongly select against those features. This would explain the higher incidences of lighter skin, in some cases like modern Europeans. However Sudan and southern Egypt would've over the course of thousands of years selected for a different collection of phenotypes and probably didn't see as much settlement and direct influence from the Levant as the north.
quote:Originally posted by Dinkum: The island of Socotra is found in the Gulf of Yemen. It has a LARGE AMOUNT of peoples who originally were runaway slaves. Does that make them the indigenous peoples of the Mid East? OH HELL NO>
They look like this:
Why does the research below state the following, then?
quote:We collected samples throughout the island and analyzed mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosomal variation. We found little African influence among the indigenous people of the island. Although the island population likely experienced founder effects, links to the Arabian Peninsula or southwestern Asia can still be found. In comparison with datasets from neighboring regions, the Soqotri population shows evidence of long-term isolation and autochthonous evolution of several mitochondrial haplogroups. Specifically, we identified two high-frequency founder lineages that have not been detected in any other populations and classified them as a new R0a1a1 subclade. Recent expansion of the novel lineages is consistent with a Holocene settlement of the island approximately 6 kya.
I'll ask again. Even if Cameroon is half Sub Saharan African, some people living in Cameroon are half Eurasian. So why would someone who is half "Eurasian" look like the guy below:
These people you are saying to be Samaritans, are not from Israel...They are Turks...Look at their hats, they still wearing Turkish hat..They arrived in Israel in 1800s.
About the Igbo not be jews..I am not sure if the DNA test done of them was correct, but, there are over 70 thousands Black Jewish people in the Subsahara. They are the "LEMBA PEOPLE" living in Zimbabwe and other Subsaharan regions..
Here is an article about them on "The World Jewish Congress" webpage. In fact, they are descendants of ancient Jewish priesthood,"Aaron, brother of Moses.
Lemba tribe in southern Africa has Jewish roots, genetic tests reveal
Mon, 08 Mar 2010
Genetic tests carried out by British scientists have revealed that many of the Lemba tribesmen in southern Africa have Jewish origins, according to a report by the BBC. The Lemba, a tribe of 70,000 to 80,000 members who live in central Zimbabwe and northern South Africa, have customs which are similar to Jewish ones: Lemba refrain from eating pork or other foods forbidden by the Torah, or forbidden combinations of permitted foods, wear yarmulke-like skull caps, conduct ritual animal slaughter, have a holy day once a week, and even put a Star of David on their gravestones. According to their oral tradition, the Lemba are descended from seven Jewish men who left Israel 2,500 years ago and married African women, according to the BBC. The Lemba prefer their children to marry other Lembas, and marriage to non-Lembas is being discouraged.
Their sacred prayer language is a mixture of Hebrew and Arabic. Their religious artifact is a replica of the Biblical Ark of the Covenant known as the ‘ngoma lungundu’, meaning "the drum that thunders.” The object went on display recently at a museum in Harare, Zimbabwe, and has instilled pride in many of the Lemba. They say the ark was built almost 700 years ago from the remains of the original ark, which according to the Bible was used to store the Ten Commandments. For decades, the ancient vessel was thought to be lost until it was discovered in a storeroom in Harare recently.
Members of the priestly clan of the Lemba, the Buba – which is one of 12 clans – have a genetic element also found among the Jewish priestly line, known as Kohanim. "This was amazing," Professor Tudor Parfitt from the University of London told the BBC. "It looks as if the Jewish priesthood continued in the West by people called Cohen, and in same way it was continued by the priestly clan of the Lemba.” http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/lemba-tribe-in-southern-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
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DNA Backs a Tribe's Tradition Of Early Descent From the Jews
Dr. Hammer, Dr. Skorecki and their colleagues reported in 1997 that they had analyzed the Y chromosomes of priests and lay Jews. They found that a particular pattern of DNA changes was much more common among the priests than among laymen. The pattern was equally recognizable in Ashkenazic and Sephardic priests, even though these two branches of the Jewish population have long been geographically separated.
A colleague in Dr. Hammer's and Dr. Skorecki's research was Neil Bradman, a businessman who is now chairman of the Center for Genetic Anthropology at University College, London. Mr. Bradman set about making a wider study of Jewish populations around the world through the lens of the Y chromosome technique.
One recruit to Mr. Bradman's project is David B. Goldstein, a population geneticist at Oxford University in England. Dr. Goldstein set about refining Dr. Hammer's work so as to develop a better genetic signature of Jewish populations.
''The problem is there has been intermingling with host populations, and that has obscured their common ancestry,'' Dr. Goldstein said.
He looked at a set of three Y chromosome sites with stable genetic mutations and six sites at which mutations occur quite often, a mix designed to give good resolution between similar Y chromosomes during historical times. The mutations are all at sites on the DNA strand that lie outside the genes, and thus do not contribute in any way to the individual's physical makeup.
He found a particular set of genetic mutations at these nine sites that was strongly associated with the priestly caste, not so common among lay Jews, and very rare in non-Jewish populations. Unlike forensic DNA markers, which are chosen to be almost wholly specific to individuals, this cohen-associated genetic signature cannot be used to say who is or who is not a priest. But it is highly diagnostic of whether a population has Jewish ancestry, Dr. Goldstein said.
He finds that 45 percent of Ashkenazi priests and 56 percent of Sephardic priests have the cohen genetic signature, while in Jewish populations in general the frequency is 3 to 5 percent.
Some of his subjects had the cohen genetic signature but with slight variations caused by mutations. From the pattern and number of mutations, Dr. Goldstein was able to calculate when the present-day bearers of the cohen genetic signature and its variations last shared a common ancestor. This date, when all the branches of the family tree coalesce into a single trunk, has a wide range of uncertainty and depends on several assumptions, like the number of years in a human generation and the rate of mutation. But assuming 25 years to a generation on average, Dr. Goldstein calculated the coalescence time as 2,650 years ago, or 3,180 years with a 30-year generation time.
Though they are only rough, these dates make an evocative match with the Jewish tradition that Moses assigned the priesthood to the male descendants of his brother Aaron after the Exodus from Egypt, believed to have occurred some 3,000 years ago. Dr. Goldstein and colleagues published this conclusion last July.
''In studying the priesthood, we happened into this tool for distinguishing Jewish from non-Jewish populations,'' Dr. Goldstein said. As part of Mr. Bradman's project on the relationship of Jewish populations, he then tested DNA samples collected from the Lemba. And last month, at a conference on human evolution held at the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory in Long Island, Dr. Goldstein reported that 9 percent of Lemba men carried the cohen genetic signature, and of those who said they belonged to the Buba clan, 53 percent had the distinctive sequences. These proportions are similar to those found among the major Jewish populations.
Because the cohen genetic signature is rare or absent in all non-Jewish populations tested so far, the findings strongly support the Lemba tradition of Jewish ancestry. Dr. Goldstein said his findings had been submitted to the American Journal of Human Genetics.
How did a Jewish priestly male chromosome come to be found in a black, Bantu-speaking people that looks very much like its southern African neighbors? Dr. Parfitt, who says he believes he has found the answer, first came across the Lemba while giving a lecture in Johannesburg about Ethiopian Jews. Some people in the audience wearing yarmulkes told him they, too, were Jewish.
Dr. Parfitt visited their homes, which are in northern South Africa and Zimbabwe. Many of the Lemba, who number more than 50,000 people, are Christians, but they see no contradiction in professing Judaism, too. He learned that they had an enigmatic tradition about their origin: ''We came from the north, from a place called Senna. We left Senna, we crossed Pusela, we came to Africa and there we rebuilt Senna.''
Dr. Parfitt said that he was later traveling in the Hadramawt region, a former site of Jewish communities in Yemen, and mentioned the Lemba tradition of Senna to the religious leader of the holy city of Tarim. The leader was surprised to hear it because, he told Dr. Parfitt, there was a nearby village called Senna.
''So I went off to find Senna,'' Dr. Parfitt said. ''It's very remote and had never been visited by anyone before. The local tradition is that centuries ago the valley had been very fertile, irrigated by a dam, the ruins of which are still there. And then the dam burst, they think about a thousand years ago, and the people fled.''
There is a valley that leads from Senna to a port on the Yemeni coast called Sayhut. If the winds are right, a ship from Sayhut could reach southern Africa in nine days, Dr. Parfitt said. And the valley that leads from Senna to Sayhut is called the Wadi al-Masilah. Dr. Parfitt believes that Masilah may be the ''Pusela'' of the Lemba oral tradition.
The Lemba have clan names like Sadiqui and Hamisi that are ''clearly Semitic'' and that are also found in the eastern Hadramawt, Dr. Parfitt said.
Dr. Parfitt, who has described his work on the Lemba in a recent book, ''Journey to the Vanished City'' (Phoenix, London), said he had been excited to hear of Dr. Goldstein's genetic results confirming the Lemba tradition.
''I was soundly criticized by a number of colleagues for listening to this nonsense because they assumed the sense of a different origin had been imposed on the Lemba by missionaries,'' he said. ''As an anthropologist, I had a sense one should listen to what people say about themselves and shouldn't be too arrogant. It turned out that what they are saying about themselves is substantially correct.''
Dr. Parfitt said that in collecting samples from the Lemba -- a swab of cells scraped from inside the cheek -- he had first explained the purpose of the research to local chiefs and obtained their permission. He then told each individual what was involved, sometimes saying ''your blood carries important history, the footprints of your ancestors,'' if he could not explain the genetics.
Being very keen to know where they came from, the Lemba lined up to give samples, Dr. Parfitt said. They were so pleased to learn the results that Dr. Parfitt was made an honorary Lemba.
Dr. Parfitt said he was particularly appreciative of the honor because Lemba tradition prohibits outside men from becoming Lembas. Women may join but only after undergoing ritual purification that includes trials by fire, water, and being drawn through a hole in a large ants' nest.
This exclusion of outside males, Dr. Parfitt said, would explain why the cohen genetic signature has been preserved at high frequency among the Lemba for so many centuries.
posted
Now...if those remind 70 thousand jewish living in the Subsaharan are Bantus...Image how many thousands were captured and sold as slaves to Europeans by the half arabs, and Muslims converted in Africa - Fulans?
Indeed, there may be thousands of Jewish descendants of Moses, living in the United States, and all over America Continent, including South America...
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Yes the earlier Egyptians in both North And Southern Egypt would have looked like this:
Admin:Over-sized picture removed.
There were Caucasians living in ancient Egypt 30 000 years ago. And yes, La Brana Man and Cheddar man were Caucasians with similar skull shapes as modern Europeans.
[ 11. February 2018, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: Punos_Rey ]
Posts: 108 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2018
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There were Caucasians living in ancient Egypt 30 000 years ago. And yes, La Brana Man and Cheddar man were Caucasians with similar skull shapes as modern Europeans.
If people really determined race by skull shape, Maasai and many other Sub Saharan Africans would be able to live as whites. Stop calling them "Caucasians" when you don't regard them as white. They are dark skinned, regardless of the shape of their skulls. Which brings me to my next questions (which you keep dodging): When did light skin become common in the Near East? When did it start spreading? You keep repeating this and that about 30,000 years ago, but 30,000 years ago light skin wasn't as common in humans as it was today. Many Near Easterners of the past if they did arrive back would look like this or some somewhat lighter shade of brown
The "Copt" look would've been a lot less common until 12,000 B.C at the earliest. So I want to know your source for light skin spreading so early among modern humans.
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Dinkum: Yes the earlier Egyptians in both North And Southern Egypt would have looked like this:
There were Caucasians living in ancient Egypt 30 000 years ago. And yes, La Brana Man and Cheddar man were Caucasians with similar skull shapes as modern Europeans.
Delusional bunk. There were no "caucasians" in Egypt 30k ago. The ancient Egyptians were mahogany-btown -- like the vast majority of the paintings.
The Tasians were closely related to the "Nubian" cultures and other African cultures in Upper Egypt.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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Hey asshole you planning on responding to anyone's criticism?
no, because you don't know shit and you know, somewhere in the dim recesses of your shrunken mind, that you could't even out-debate some Afrocentric cranks on a fringe website
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There has NEVER EVER been any Haplogroups taken from the Amarna Mummies and NO respected scientific research sites have any results from the Amarna Mummies. DNATRIBES who were a bunch of idiots who never touched any mummies has since gone bankrupt.
The AMARNA MUMMIES were all Mid East Caucasians like the majority of ancient Egyptians;
Hair analysis of Tjuyu and Yuya shows they were NATURAL BLONDES:
quote:Originally posted by Dinkum: There has NEVER EVER been any Haplogroups taken from the Amarna Mummies and NO respected scientific research sites have any results from the Amarna Mummies. DNATRIBES who were a bunch of idiots who never touched any mummies has since gone bankrupt.
However, in the December 2012 issue of the British Medical Journal quotes the conclusion of the study of the team of researchers, led by Zahi Hawass, the former head of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquity, and his Egyptian team, as well as Albert Zink from the Institute for Mummies and the Iceman of the European Academy of Bolzano/Bozen in Italy, determined that the remains of Ramesses III and his son belonged to Haplogroup E1b1a (Y- DNA). Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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The web article you linked used pictures of Tjuyu and Yuya but those mummies were not tested. Ancient Origins.net (not a respected science magazine) just used the pictures (irresponsibly) to hype the article. The mummies hair that was tested were children of the Graeco-Roman period, 332 BC to 395 AD.
No, hair analysis does not show of Tjuyu and Yuya shows they were blondes. Stop the bullshit
The article above says
quote: According to Dr. Janet Davey from the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine in Australia, some ancient Egyptians were naturally blonde or red haired....
An article published recently by The Sydney Morning Herald says that the mystery of the red and blonde hair discovered on some ancient Egyptian mummies may finally be solved....
Dr. Davey is convinced that there were fair-haired Egyptians, but believes that the fair-haired mummies are just very rare. This is why Egyptologists used to believe that lighter hair color was created during the mummification process. Moreover, Davey suggests that there were blondes living in Egypt during the Graeco-Roman Period (332 BC – 395 AD).
However, Dr Davey said, she was now convinced that there were blondes dotted among the ancient Egyptian population during the Graeco-Roman period, which spanned from 332 BC to around 395 AD.
She said it made sense. The child mummies had fair hair because they lived during the rule of the Greeks and the Romans. This era would have brought many new genes into Egypt, via the Northern Greek and Roman soldiers as well as traders and slaves who may have had northern European genes.
They give you the over-simplified headline:
"Some ancient Egyptians were natural blondes"
when it should have read
"Some Egyptian mummies of the Greco-Roman period had blonde hair"
It's an unremarkable story, hyped
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Ancient Egyptians never portrayed themselves the same as Black Africans
Those "black Africans" were Sudanese--where the dynastic culture of Egypt came from. If you're admitting that ancient Sudanese were black, you're putting your foot in your mouth again.
quote:Originally posted by Dinkum: Another nasty shock for Afrocentrics. Angelina Jolie to play Cleopatra in a movie.
Cleopatra was a Macedonian Greek in origin:
Macedonian Greek ladies (they all look like Nefertiti)
Why is it a nasty shock for Afrocentrics that a Greek woman is played by a white woman? Oh wait, maybe because the Greek invaders of Egypt have been demanded by Eurocentrics to be the face of all Egyptian history. Many Afrocentrics (like Eurocentrics) have yet to understand demographic change. But Eurocentrism isn't especially innocent in it's reasons. If it was all just fun and history, why do more people know more about foreign invaders than they do rulers like Hatsheput?
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I see different racial groups in the reliefs you reproduce below; the hair texture, skin tone and facial features are distinct between the two groups.
quote:Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Originally posted by Dinkum:
Ancient Egyptians never portrayed themselves the same as Black Africans
Those "black Africans" were Sudanese--where the dynastic culture of Egypt came from. If you're admitting that ancient Sudanese were black, you're putting your foot in your mouth again.
quote:Originally posted by Frankly Kemet: I see different racial groups in the reliefs you reproduce below; the hair texture, skin tone and facial features are distinct between the two groups.
More lala land? When you're ready to truthfully discuss in this thread who is treated as black for real and not in your little fantasy textbooks where you write about "dark Caucasoids" that are treated as blacks in REALITY, then you are welcome to approach this subject. Otherwise shut up. I didn't want to be rude but I'm not going to shuck for this. You know full well none of what you said has to make anybody white. A Masai, Afar and Egyptian Nubian is black as far as anyone is concerned. You got plenty of blacks in your European countries that look just like both black people in that image.
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To you are these women "black" and if so what is your definition of the racial term, "black"?
quote:Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Originally posted by Frankly Kemet: I see different racial groups in the reliefs you reproduce below; the hair texture, skin tone and facial features are distinct between the two groups.
More lala land? When you're ready to truthfully discuss in this thread who is treated as black for real and not in your little fantasy textbooks where you write about "dark Caucasoids" that are treated as blacks in REALITY, then you are welcome to approach this subject. Otherwise shut up. I didn't want to be rude but I'm not going to shuck for this. You know full well none of what you said has to make anybody white. A Masai, Afar and Egyptian Nubian is black as far as anyone is concerned. Any differences in hair texture, skin tone and face morphology from the "negroid" stereotype don't change that. And you got plenty of blacks in your European countries that look just like both black people in that image.
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You have a severe problem separating fact from fiction if you really think that in your countries people like this
or them
Are going to be white in your countries. Just STOP. Any differences in hair texture, skin tone and face morphology from the "negroid" stereotype don't change that. Just like how whites can have a bunch of hair colors, eye colors and range from olive to white, blacks vary in phenotype. I didn't say that to be black simply requires dark skin, but the morphology attributed to blackness as well as the African connotations generally attributed to blacks apply to Egypt as a geographically African area that's people originally were phenotypically within range of the blacks living in your countries right now.
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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Okay so at least we can agree, racially, "black" is not just skin color, but other biological traits play a role as well. My next question to you is do you personally subscribe to biological reality of race?
Posts: 115 | From: NYC | Registered: Feb 2018
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okay, so, basically you subscribe to the social construct of race but acknowledge its unscientific validity. In other words, you are willing to dabble in pseudoscience if it suits your agenda to convey a belief of yours. Is that a fair assessment?
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: No. I believe features for example can be socially attributed to race.
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