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It is highly recommended for non-Muslims to read some of the Islamic websites giving online fatwas, religious rulings on specific matters related to Islamic law. Be aware that some of the ones in English are "softened" in tone to cater to a non-Muslim audience and give them a "positive" image of Islam, but there are still some that give a fairly accurate picture of Islamic thinking. One such websites is Islam Q&A. This is not an extremist website, but rather a site that provides a good insight into Islamic mentality, based on authentic Islamic texts. Here is a small selection of quotes about marriage to non-Muslim women that any Western woman getting involved with a Muslim man should read and understand:
It is not obligatory for the Muslim husband "to have the approval his first wife if he wants to marry a second wife." Moreover, Allah "has enjoined disciplining women" by 'hitting' them.
One of the conditions for a Muslim man to marry a Christian or Jewish woman is that "the Muslim man should be in charge of the family." This includes bringing up their children as good Muslims. What the woman thinks of the choice of religion is completely irrelevant in this regard. She is little more than his servant and a machine for making Muslim babies to expand the Islamic Ummah:
The husband "does have the right to forbid her to go out of the house, even if she is going to go out to go to church, because she is commanded to obey him. He also has the right to forbid her to commit evil openly in the house, such as setting up statues or ringing bells. That also includes celebrating innovated festivals, such as Easter, because that is an evil action according to Islam." It is not permissible for a Muslim "to allow his wife from among the People of the Book to celebrate her festivals in his home, for the man is in charge of that woman and she does not have the right to openly celebrate her festivals in his home, because of the resulting effects of corruption, forbidden things and display of the symbols of kufr (disbelief, infidelity) in his home. He should keep his children from taking part in those innovated festivals, because the children belong to the father and he should keep them away from these forbidden celebrations."
This condition of the children being raised as Muslims is absolute, and "a Muslim should not put himself in a position where he will be forced to raise his child as a kaafir (infidel) in a non-Muslim country, where a child may be forced to study something about Christianity, for example, or he may be taken to church on Sundays, or the law may be on the side of the non-Muslim woman, allowing her to raise him in her family's religion, etc." IslamOnline, too, agrees: "If a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman, then their children should be raised up as Muslims."
One of the most frequent warnings to Muslim men planning to marry women from the People of the Book, the Koranic term for Christians and Jews, dhimmis or second-rate citizens in an Islamic society, is that the states and governments of these women will give them custody of the children. This will cause these children to be lost and to fall into kufr." With this in mind, it is recommended that the Muslim "should try to move to a Muslim country where you will be able to give your children a sound upbringing, because staying in the kaafir lands is not permissible except in cases of necessity or where it serves the interests of the Muslims."
Many Western or non-Muslim women have noticed that their previously charming Muslim boyfriend suddenly became a lot more possessive once they had married or got a child. As one of them tells, "when they are engaged, they promise you everything, but after you are married, they give you nothing. After marriage, you are like a slave---supposed to be ready at their every beck and call!" This is what I will call the Reverse Frog Syndrome. Young girls have fantasies about finding a prince to marry, especially a frog that turns into a prince when kissed by the right girl. But sometimes you can also marry a prince that turns into a frog. This can happen in all countries, of course, but it seems to be much more frequent in some cultures than in others. One well-known case of a woman that married a charming, seemingly Westernized man in the USA who turned into The Muslim From Hell as soon as they went to his home country is Betty Mahmoody, made famous through the book and the movie "Not Without My Daughter." During a summer "vacation" in Iran, her Iranian husband suddenly turned around 180 degrees and became a very conservative Muslim. For a year and a half, Betty and her daughter were held hostage by her husband and his family. He forced her wife to wear a veil, informed her that they would never return to the United States and threatened to kill her if she should try to escape.
This is not at all uncommon. These aggressive, Islamic traits are see most clearly once a relationship between a Muslim man and a non-Muslim woman breaks down. To a Muslim, it is simply intolerable that an inferior woman, and a non-Muslim one to boot, can defy his authority in such a way. It's an insult to his integrity and his honor that cannot go unpunished. If they have children, it is his right, indeed duty as stated by Allah, to ensure that these children, his rightful property, are given an Islamic upbringing. If that means taking them by force from the mother, so be it. Helge Tangen in the Norwegian police section Kripos says that there has been an explosive increase in the number of abduction cases in recent years. Statistics from Denmark show that these children are usually taken to countries in the Middle East. Tangen does not doubt that "Multicultural marriages" increase the risk for such child abductions. In June 2004, Swedish mother Elizabeth Krantz's five children were kidnapped from Sweden by Krantz's estranged Palestinian husband Ismail Nowajah. The children were taken to the Gaza Strip against their will and in contravention of Swedish law. Ismail Nowajah said he disapproved of the upbringing his children were getting in Sweden, where they were born, and that he wished to bring them up according to a stricter Islamic code. Nowajah signalled, however, that he was willing to release the children back into the custody of their mother in exchange for five million Swedish kronor (about 720,000 US dollars).
This is why the Vatican has warned Catholic women to think hard before marrying a Muslim. Calling women "the least protected member of the Muslim family," it spoke of the "bitter experience" western Catholics had with Muslim husbands, especially if they married outside the Islamic world and later moved to his country of origin. What about Christian men who may marry Muslim women? Not a problem: such marriages are forbidden by Islamic law. A Muslim man can marry a non-Muslim woman, but not vice versa. Even Palestinian leader Yassir Arafat married a Christian woman. This is, as we have seen, to ensure that the head of the household is always a Muslim, and to ensure that any children born from an inter-religious marriage will be raised as Muslims, thus contributing to advancing the cause of Islamic supremacy on earth. If a non-Muslim woman gets children with a Muslim man, she basically becomes a tool of Jihad.
Abduction cases are even worse in countries where Muslims form an overwhelming majority. In 2004, two Pakistani children were snatched away from their Christian mother by their Muslim father. As a teenager of 17, the children's Christian mother, Maria Samar John, had been abducted and held prisoner for five months until her Muslim captors literally sold her for the equivalent of $2,000, her name was changed to Kalsoom and she was forced to thumbprint a certificate of so-called "conversion" to Islam. For the next two and one-half years, she was a virtual slave, locked in the house and beaten by both her husband and mother-in-law for refusing to say the Muslim prayers. She had borne a son and was pregnant for the second time when she found a mislaid house key and managed to flee her captors to return home. Soon afterwards, her husband sent men to recapture her.
The situation is even more difficult for non-Muslim women who not only marry a Muslim man, but also convert to Islam, sometimes due to pressure from his family. On the Internet, a German woman who has married a Saudi man, converted to Islam and moved to Saudi Arabia wrote a post on her blog titled "A good fake Muslima:"
I only became a Muslima because my husband asked me to. (…) I hadn't problems respecting Islam. Unlike Christianity it doesn't come along with a shameful history and more skeletons in the cellar than the human mind can imagine. It might have had its fair share of idiots and culprits marching over dead bodies in order to conquer new grounds but compared to Christianity their numbers were small. Throughout centuries, Islam presented itself as an enlightened and rather peaceful religion.
Now, what happens if this "fake" Muslima decides that she no longer wants to be a fake, and that Islam is not quite as "enlightened and peaceful" as she had been told? Well, according to traditional Islamic law, a man leaving Islam should be executed, as Muhammad himself said: "Whoever changes his religion [leaves Islam], execute him." A woman leaving Islam gets slightly softer treatment, she is after all only a women and thus with a mental capacity closer to that of a child. Some argue that it will suffice to "just" imprison her in the house until she repents or death takes her.
If she lives in a non-Muslim country, she may be slightly less in danger of being killed, but her marriage to the Muslim man will in any case be finished. The man should divorce her and leave her. A Muslim man may be married to a Christian of Jewish woman, but not one that is considered a non-believer. If she leaves Islam, their marriage becomes null and void, because the Koran says: "Likewise hold not the disbelieving women as wives"
Muhammad has said that "war is deceit." Lying to non-Muslims in permitted in Islam if this helps to advance the Islamic cause. Another quote by Muhammad is that to tell a lie is forbidden in Islam except on three occasions: In war, to reconcile two opposing parties and to your women.
Posts: 199 | Registered: May 2006
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I definately want him to marry again. I want our daughter to have siblings.
But in our divorce decree its optional (if the conditions are right) when our daughter and I relocate back to the USA we will look into the possibility of remarrying.
Possibly sooner.
But we are not functioning as a married couple now.
And he has stipulated that if I do recieve marriage proposals (he claimed there would be hundreds of them, sincerely) that I run these guys past my FIL and MIL. Make it a joint decision between me and them.
Personally I am so emotionally rung out I can't fathom remarriage for myself right now, and neither can he.
But if he does I will support him fully and look forward to a friendship with the woman who will give brothers and sisters to our daughter!
-------------------- Don't freak out, sonomod, Organized Crime, whatever. If I annoy you its me! Posts: 1765 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Both my ex and I have remarried. I haven't met his new wife and he hasn't met my new husband. Funny..we're both in the same damn boat in that regard (both our hubbys are not in the US, yet). As long as this new wife is good to my sons I'm fine with her. My ex feels the same way about my husband. As long as he's Muslim and treats his sons well my ex is fine with it.
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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id chop his dick off ..my ex has just done it first commited bigamy with me then he went off and married a third time without consulting the presnt wife ,oah what a shite head ,as for my egyptian munke id wrapp him around my BANANA TREE id peel a banana get the skin put is dick in it and make him eat better still see him lick it give him the punishment Posts: 1602 | From: the banana island shake me tweeeeeeee | Registered: Jan 2006
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Sisters in Islam welcome the decision of the Selangor Syariah Appeal Court Judgement in the case of Aishah Abd Rauf vs Wan Mohd Yusof Wan Othman. The judgement reflects the true spirit of the teachings of the Qur'an and true practice of polygamy. We would like to point out the popular misconceptions surrounding the Qur'anic verses on polygamy.
Many men believe that polygamy is a God-given right enshrined in the Qur'an; many believe that Islam, by allowing polygamy has found the ideal solution to men's alleged insatiable sexual drive; and many also believe that if a woman allows her husband to take on a second wife, she is assured of a place in heaven.
The Selangor Syariah Appeal Court judgment of Aishah Abdul Rauf v Wan Mohd Yusof Wan Othman brought to public debate these misconceptions which have been mistakenly elevated to be the word of Allah.
Let us point out what the Qur'anic verses on polygamy actually say: “If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three, or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them) then only one” (Al Nisa'. 4:3).
A subsequent verse states: “You are never able to be fair and just between women even if that were your ardent desire" (Al Nisa', 4:129).
It is clear from this verse that:
First, the Qur'an does not give men the blanket right to have more than one wife. Polygamy is not a right, but a responsibility to ensure that socio-justice be done to orphans. What Allah has granted is in fact a restriction on existing practice of that time when men could marry as many wives they wanted.
Second, because polygamy is not a right, Allah placed conditions on its practice. There is an overiding concern for justice in this short verse. Conditions are set to ensure that justice is done.
Condition A: Polygamy is permitted within the context of war and orphans. It is permitted only if the men fear they would not be able to deal justly with the orphans.
Condition B: The man who wants to be polygamous must have the capacity to be fair and just to all his wives. The verse is a call for just conduct towards women, not a right for men to fulfil their alleged lustful desires or their ego. And just treatment here means more than a man's financial capacity to a support more than one wife. He must be fair in all ways, including the time, support and companionship he provides to the wives and children.
Condition C: If the man fears he cannot deal justly with all his wives, then Allah advocates that he should marry only one as this will prevent injustice. This is explicitly stated in the verse.
Third, it is often forgotten that there was a socio-historical context within which the verse was revealed. That context was a period of tragedy in Islam after the battle of Uhud when dozens of men from the still formative Muslim community in Medina were killed in one day. Numerous women and children were left without support. To deal with this problem, Allah revealed the verse permitting men to be polygamous. Given the tragedy of the battle of Uhud, Allah could have sanctioned the existing practice of unlimited polygamy; but instead, while allowing men to be polygamous, Allah restricted the number to four.
We wish to emphasise that the clear intention in the Qur'an is to restrict polygamy.
Unfortunately, in practice, the restrictions imposed in the Qur'an have often not been applied and the context within which the verse was revealed has been completely overlooked.
By stressing the need for just conduct toward women and the need for equal treatment of each wife and recognising the difficulty, if not the impossibility, of doing so (4:129), this verse, in fact advocates monogamy as the original and ideal state of marriage in Islam.
There is also nothing in the Qur'an to support the popular misconception that women who allow their husbands to take a second wife will go to heaven.
As far as our research shows, no authoritative hadith exists to support this misconception. Nevertheless, this belief is often used to persuade women that it is their religious obligation to accept their husbands’ polygamy. This is a destructive tactic to manipulate women into feeling that they would be bad Muslim wives if they object to their husbands’ polygamy. Finally, we would like to emphasise that it is reprehensible for Muslims to say that polygamy is Islam’s solution for men's alleged unbridled lust. Islam teaches self-control, self-discipline and self-purification. The solution to an immoral society, whether in the West or in the Muslim world, is not polygamy. The solution, as found in the Qur'an and the hadith, is a change of attitude from indulging in promiscuity to one of self-discipline and respect for the opposite sex. We urge our sisters and brothers in Islam to go back to the Qur'an and read its words carefully. To allege that the recent judgement of the Selangor Syariah Appeal Court is against Hukum Syarak is a gross denial of the true intent and spirit of justice so insistantly enjoined by the Qur'an.
Sisters In Islam Kuala Lumpur 20 August 1990 Published in: The Star, New Straits Times, Berita Harian and Utusan Melayu
posted
No woman wants to share her husband and if they're saying yes,they're a liers. If she will stay with him after he will take other one she will be suffer.
And he should go to hell. Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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I would be so pissed of that I would leave him that night if he wanted to share me with someone else.
Posts: 935 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Marcella: No woman wants to share her husband and if they're saying yes,they're a liers. If she will stay with him after he will take other one she will be suffer.
And he should go to hell.
Hi Marcella!
Can I suggest that before you make gross overgeneralizations and accuse people of being liars...when I guess that you have little or no experience of talking too/meeting women in polygynous marriages...you do some research into the subject? Although I agree that the majority of women in today’s world would not want to share their husbands with another wife, there are many women who are in polygynous marriages and many who are there happily, and through their own choice. I personally have been approached by women for me to consider becoming their co-wife and know others who have helped their husbands find another wife.
Not all polygynous marriages are happy, and not all of them are entered into for the right reasons, or following the religious guidelines, but the same can be said for monogamous marriages too! How many of them are happy?
If you look around the internet you will find many websites/forums/email-groups that have been formed by women where you will be able to see both sides of polygyny, and I guess you will be surprised to see how many women, Muslims and non-Muslims, who welcome it.
As for your last comment…who goes to hell is only decided by Allah/God and do you really think that he will send his prophets and the Companions of the last Prophet to hell for doing what He permitted? Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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why don't u just take the "marriage" title out of it and call it an "Orgy". Marriage is between 2 people not between "bunch" of people !!!
Posts: 226 | Registered: Mar 2006
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That's not actually true according to Islamic law nor Egyptian law. A man can marry again legally without informing his wife or having her agreement. I feel that morally he should not only tell her of his intention, but that she should accept it, however, I can see some situations where this might not necessarily be advisable.
In Egyptian law a man can marry another woman, and, if he has a current registered marriage, the authorities will write to the address that the husband gives as his home address to inform his wife. I believe that the first wife then has up to a year after the date of the marriage, to contact the authorities to inform them if she does not accept this marriage, if they don't hear from her they assume she does. If she doesn't accept it she can ask for a divorce, (particularly is this is a clause in her marriage contract), but I am not sure whether she could actually get the new marriage annulled...I hope someone else can clarify that.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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I really dont know how people can marry more than one person, my husband says I am enough for him, probably more than he can handle, but you have to be able to provide for both surely, unless the second wife is rich and provides for them all.
-------------------- Do you think I look like George Clooney!!! Posts: 155 | From: Eeeegggyyypppttt | Registered: Apr 2006
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If you look around the internet you will find many websites/forums/email-groups that have been formed by women where you will be able to see both sides of polygyny, and I guess you will be surprised to see how many women, Muslims and non-Muslims, who welcome it.
Can you show us some of these websites?
As for your last comment…who goes to hell is only decided by Allah/God and do you really think that he will send his prophets and the Companions of the last Prophet to hell for doing what He permitted?
This is another story.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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Marcella..just a question/comment..don't take it the wrong way. Have you been burned by someone? You seem very bitter and angry at times. Your comments tend to be harsh and extreme. Just an observation.
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Josh: why don't u just take the "marriage" title out of it and call it an "Orgy". Marriage is between 2 people not between "bunch" of people :) !!!
EXACTLY I totally agree.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Madame M.: Marcella..just a question/comment..don't take it the wrong way. Have you been burned by someone? You seem very bitter and angry at times. Your comments tend to be harsh and extreme. Just an observation.
Why do you think that my comments are harsh? It's just my opinion.I really think somebody should stop that.Because this is not fot real.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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If I just imagine how I'm saying to my husband:Bye Honey,enjoy your time with your second wife,don't forget make her feel good like you did to me last night. I feel like I want to vomit.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Marcella: [QUOTE]Originally posted by newcomer
If you look around the internet you will find many websites/forums/email-groups that have been formed by women where you will be able to see both sides of polygyny, and I guess you will be surprised to see how many women, Muslims and non-Muslims, who welcome it.
Holy crap, I totally didn't pick up on the bigamy vibe. Thanks for pointing this out.
I don't know many guys (Muslim) who ever would consider doing this. I know a few Somali guys who have Orfi wives, but its many to hussle money out of her social security check, and so forth.
Polygamy around here is many so a guy can collect on additional wives, not support them.
Posts: 1765 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Sonomod_me: Holy crap, I totally didn't pick up on the bigamy vibe. Thanks for pointing this out.
How did you take it? In the sense of re-marrying after a divorce / separation?
I thought it was quite obvious, especially in combination with this statement made in another thread:
quote: ACTUALLY IF YOU LOVE HIM, LET HIM MARRY AND TRY TO HELP HIM FIND THE RIGHT WOMEN. ISLAM ALLOW THIS TO PROTECT MEN FROM BEING IN A SIN. AND ALSO THIS IS A TEST FOR WOMEN. MUSLIM WOMEN SHOULDNOT BE SELFISH. MAY BE THE WOMEN THAT YOUR HUSBAND WANT TO MARRY DID NEVER GET MARRIED.
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