Tunis -- Tunisia's secular ruling party yesterday defended a government ban on head scarves, saying rules forbidding religious head coverings in public places in the Muslim country are designed to protect women's rights.
"If today we accept the head scarf, tomorrow we'll accept that women's rights to work and vote and receive an education be banned, and they'll be seen as just a tool for reproduction and housework," said Hedi Mhenni, general-secretary of the dominant Constitutional Democratic Rally (RCD) party. Reuters
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Tunisian religious affairs minister criticizes wearing Muslim head scarf
ASSOCIATED PRESS
2:23 a.m. December 29, 2005
TUNIS, Tunisia – Tunisia's religious affairs minister has criticized Muslim women's practice of wearing head scarves, saying it does not fit with the North African country's cultural heritage. Aboubaker Akhzouri said the government of the moderate Muslim country also rejects Muslim tunics like those worn in Persian Gulf states and the practice of men wearing long beards.
"It's regrettable that we don't respect our specificity," he was quoted as saying in Assabah newspaper on Wednesday. He said the head scarf is "foreign" and "an intrusion," and recommended a traditional Tunisian Islamic tunic known as the jebbah. Under a 1981 government order, Muslim head scarves are banned in Tunisian government offices and public schools, though the rule is not always applied rigorously. Some non-governmental groups have criticized the rule as a violation of Tunisians' civil rights.
Akhzouri denied that increasingly more Muslim women are turning to the head scarf. "On the contrary, the phenomenon is in decline ... progressively fading away," he said.
Tunisia, a nation of 10 million people wedged between Libya and Algeria, is considered a stalwart ally of the West and has been cracking down on Islamic militants for years. It also actively promotes gender equality. Tunisian women enjoy rights denied in many other Arab countries, and nearly 54 percent of its university students are female.
Muslims across the world were enraged when France decided last year to ban head scarves from public schools. The head scarf is also banned from universities and state offices in overwhelmingly Muslim Turkey, which Islamic leaders have vowed to overturn.
Wow, who would have thought.... Now I know why I've seen so many female hotel staff working in Tunisia - gender equality.Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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traitor Government, forgeet them, they are to hell directly . Do you think God will let them feel comfort. they will have the illnesses till death. Allah will punish them in every thing.
لا تعجل عليهم انما نعد لهم عدا This is a verse in Quran saying" God almight says dont be in a hurry, Allah is saving all what they do in a file and God doesnt forget
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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READ IT PROPERLY ITS FORTHTOLD THE ISLAMIC PLIGHT AND THE INSURGEON UPON MUSLIMS READ IT AND MEAN IT OK OK OK ,ITS A PROPHECY ITS ALREADY UPON US THE DARKEST DAYS OF YOUR LIFE THE ANTI CHRIST IS ALREADY AT WORK.......
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Its very sad affair...I am a revert to islam now more than over 18 months..just the past 2 weeks I have began to wear hijab..dont know why it took so long..maybe now iam ready to wear hijab with pride...lol I remember my husband put hijab on to show me how i do it..lol we laughed so much we cried.I reverted to islam 18 months ago then met my husband best thing ever has happened.Hes not egyption he from iraq but lives in the uk for the past 6 years ..a friend introduced us and I dont what happened lol but its surly a loving relationship.
-------------------- Every morning is a fresh beginning. Every day is the world made new. Today is a new day. Today is my world made new. I have lived all my life up to this moment, to come to this day. This moment - this day - is as good as any moment in all eternity. Posts: 224 | From: england | Registered: Oct 2005
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Please tell me Batman, or Sheikh, or whatever your name is.......please tell me: WHERE SPECIFICALLY in the Koran or Hadith does it say that a woman MUST wear a headscraf? I honestly don't know, so show me EXACTLY where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY speaks concerning the wearing of the hijab..................If you can't locate the acutual scripture to support your tirade, then you ought to be quiet. If you can show me where it is in the Koran or Hadith(Sahih Muslim or whatever version of Hadith), then I'll respect where you are coming from. AGAIN, I don't want your INTERPRETATION of nothing, I want to see where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY says(if such specificity even exists), "Women must wear a hijab".......Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Israel: Please tell me Batman, or Sheikh, or whatever your name is.......please tell me: WHERE SPECIFICALLY in the Koran or Hadith does it say that a woman MUST wear a headscraf? I honestly don't know, so show me EXACTLY where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY speaks concerning the wearing of the hijab..................If you can't locate the acutual scripture to support your tirade, then you ought to be quiet. If you can show me where it is in the Koran or Hadith(Sahih Muslim or whatever version of Hadith), then I'll respect where you are coming from. AGAIN, I don't want your INTERPRETATION of nothing, I want to see where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY says(if such specificity even exists), "Women must wear a hijab".......Salaam
dude, i wont answer anyone can simply search in Google for the answer
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by maryanne: Its very sad affair...I am a revert to islam now more than over 18 months..just the past 2 weeks I have began to wear hijab..dont know why it took so long..maybe now iam ready to wear hijab with pride...lol I remember my husband put hijab on to show me how i do it..lol we laughed so much we cried.I reverted to islam 18 months ago then met my husband best thing ever has happened.Hes not egyption he from iraq but lives in the uk for the past 6 years ..a friend introduced us and I dont what happened lol but its surly a loving relationship.
who cares u idiot
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Israel: Please tell me Batman, or Sheikh, or whatever your name is.......please tell me: WHERE SPECIFICALLY in the Koran or Hadith does it say that a woman MUST wear a headscraf? I honestly don't know, so show me EXACTLY where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY speaks concerning the wearing of the hijab..................If you can't locate the acutual scripture to support your tirade, then you ought to be quiet. If you can show me where it is in the Koran or Hadith(Sahih Muslim or whatever version of Hadith), then I'll respect where you are coming from. AGAIN, I don't want your INTERPRETATION of nothing, I want to see where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY says(if such specificity even exists), "Women must wear a hijab".......Salaam
only in hadith ...not Quran
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Israel: Please tell me Batman, or Sheikh, or whatever your name is.......please tell me: WHERE SPECIFICALLY in the Koran or Hadith does it say that a woman MUST wear a headscraf? I honestly don't know, so show me EXACTLY where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY speaks concerning the wearing of the hijab..................If you can't locate the acutual scripture to support your tirade, then you ought to be quiet. If you can show me where it is in the Koran or Hadith(Sahih Muslim or whatever version of Hadith), then I'll respect where you are coming from. AGAIN, I don't want your INTERPRETATION of nothing, I want to see where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY says(if such specificity even exists), "Women must wear a hijab".......Salaam
Suurat Alnoor, a lot of debate for nothin, Israel no muslim will take a word of islam from your mouth, why wanna debate then on such a think ... use your mind a bit more
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Israel: Please tell me Batman, or Sheikh, or whatever your name is.......please tell me: WHERE SPECIFICALLY in the Koran or Hadith does it say that a woman MUST wear a headscraf? I honestly don't know, so show me EXACTLY where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY speaks concerning the wearing of the hijab..................If you can't locate the acutual scripture to support your tirade, then you ought to be quiet. If you can show me where it is in the Koran or Hadith(Sahih Muslim or whatever version of Hadith), then I'll respect where you are coming from. AGAIN, I don't want your INTERPRETATION of nothing, I want to see where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY says(if such specificity even exists), "Women must wear a hijab".......Salaam
only in hadith ...not Quran
well, that shows who is the idiot here, lool. maryanne, thanks for your post
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by maryanne: Its very sad affair...I am a revert to islam now more than over 18 months..just the past 2 weeks I have began to wear hijab..dont know why it took so long..maybe now iam ready to wear hijab with pride...lol I remember my husband put hijab on to show me how i do it..lol we laughed so much we cried.I reverted to islam 18 months ago then met my husband best thing ever has happened.Hes not egyption he from iraq but lives in the uk for the past 6 years ..a friend introduced us and I dont what happened lol but its surly a loving relationship.
VERY NICE WHEREABOUT ARE YOU ,,PLEASE TO HEAR YOUR MARRIAGE IS WORKING AND IGNORE ''ISPY ''SOMEWHERE ALONG IT LURKS TO ATTACK .... Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms, and not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband's fathers, or their sons, or their husband's sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to God together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful.
[The word khimar refers to] all such pieces of cloth which are used to cover the head. It is a piece of cloth which is used by a woman to cover her head."
I think your are the idiot not me.
Have good day Posts: 224 | From: england | Registered: Oct 2005
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I can understand why people debate this. Some will read that you need to cover from top to bottom, some will read that you need to dress decent. If both sides would accept the different turns on the matter a lot would be won. Unfortunately it has turned into a heated debate and covering became a flag for fundamentalism and thereby suspect to condoning hatred towards the west and 'non-believers'.
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Salam Israel, Please don't tell that in Bible or Torah do not mention that women should wear veil:
In Genesis 24:63–65
And Rebekah arose, and her damsels, and they rode upon the camels, and followed the man: and the servant took Rebekah, and went his way. And Isaac came from the way of the well Lahai-roi; for he dwelt in the south country. And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, the camels were coming. And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel. For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.
Posts: 2198 | Registered: Jun 2006
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To me this is how in those days people wanted to show their objective to live a 'decent' life according to their tradition and upbringing. Good manners and respect. Translate this to now and there will be no debate at all. Some will want to cover for old times sakes (if only seen as 'orthodox' there is not a problem at all) and some will just express their respect by dressing and handling in a decent manner according to the place they live and the people they are with and the believes they follow. Both to their own satisfaction.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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The same area all monotheistic religions root and the stories were lived. People had common habits that you can see reflected in the holy books.
quote:Originally posted by maryanne: Its very sad affair...I am a revert to islam now more than over 18 months..just the past 2 weeks I have began to wear hijab..dont know why it took so long..maybe now iam ready to wear hijab with pride...lol I remember my husband put hijab on to show me how i do it..lol we laughed so much we cried.I reverted to islam 18 months ago then met my husband best thing ever has happened.Hes not egyption he from iraq but lives in the uk for the past 6 years ..a friend introduced us and I dont what happened lol but its surly a loving relationship.
who cares u idiot
Ipsy, Why do you have to insult people? You dont have to comment on a post if you don't like it Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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Ask a nun, you might get surprised of the answers. Beside since the sixties not all nuns wear long clothes. Some just adapt to the environment they are working in.
quote:Originally posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God):
quote:Originally posted by Israel: Please tell me Batman, or Sheikh, or whatever your name is.......please tell me: WHERE SPECIFICALLY in the Koran or Hadith does it say that a woman MUST wear a headscraf? I honestly don't know, so show me EXACTLY where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY speaks concerning the wearing of the hijab..................If you can't locate the acutual scripture to support your tirade, then you ought to be quiet. If you can show me where it is in the Koran or Hadith(Sahih Muslim or whatever version of Hadith), then I'll respect where you are coming from. AGAIN, I don't want your INTERPRETATION of nothing, I want to see where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY says(if such specificity even exists), "Women must wear a hijab".......Salaam
dude, i wont answer anyone can simply search in Google for the answer
Like I said in the other thread: Batman, you are truly "unarmed". Your posts consists of no proofs, no true facts, just a bunch of tirading...........Salaam
P.S.-If your the apologist for Islam, maybe you should have answered my question.........But perhaps you CAN'T answer my question! Like I said, you are UNARMED..........If you battle in a battle unarmed(whether literal war, or debates......... ), you could lose an arm or leg. So perhaps you should be more sharp with your knowledge. Otherwise, who will take you serious?................
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Israel: Please tell me Batman, or Sheikh, or whatever your name is.......please tell me: WHERE SPECIFICALLY in the Koran or Hadith does it say that a woman MUST wear a headscraf? I honestly don't know, so show me EXACTLY where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY speaks concerning the wearing of the hijab..................If you can't locate the acutual scripture to support your tirade, then you ought to be quiet. If you can show me where it is in the Koran or Hadith(Sahih Muslim or whatever version of Hadith), then I'll respect where you are coming from. AGAIN, I don't want your INTERPRETATION of nothing, I want to see where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY says(if such specificity even exists), "Women must wear a hijab".......Salaam
Suurat Alnoor, a lot of debate for nothin, Israel no muslim will take a word of islam from your mouth, why wanna debate then on such a think ... use your mind a bit more
Dude, it is quite possible that I may know MORE about Islam than you! I MIGHT be wrong: maybe you know more than I. It is possible...........But it is also VERY possible that I know more than you about your own religion..............
Show me where it is written concerning the MANDATORY OBLIGATION OF WEARING THE HIJAB so that I can look at it for myself. If this is the best ya'll Muslim apologists have than man.............ya'll couldn't hang in a real debate..............Again, I don't care about YOUR INTERPRETATION about what Muhammad said. I want to know WHAT SPECIFICALLY Muhammad said about wearing the hijab. If Muhammad said it, then fine. I don't really have a problem with it. But if ya'll can't even prove your own religion, then MAN..........I feel sorry for ya'll for real.........Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God):
quote:Originally posted by Israel: Please tell me Batman, or Sheikh, or whatever your name is.......please tell me: WHERE SPECIFICALLY in the Koran or Hadith does it say that a woman MUST wear a headscraf? I honestly don't know, so show me EXACTLY where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY speaks concerning the wearing of the hijab..................If you can't locate the acutual scripture to support your tirade, then you ought to be quiet. If you can show me where it is in the Koran or Hadith(Sahih Muslim or whatever version of Hadith), then I'll respect where you are coming from. AGAIN, I don't want your INTERPRETATION of nothing, I want to see where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY says(if such specificity even exists), "Women must wear a hijab".......Salaam
dude, i wont answer anyone can simply search in Google for the answer
Like I said in the other thread: Batman, you are truly "unarmed". Your posts consists of no proofs, no true facts, just a bunch of tirading...........Salaam
P.S.-If your the apologist for Islam, maybe you should have answered my question.........But perhaps you CAN'T answer my question! Like I said, you are UNARMED..........If you battle in a battle unarmed(whether literal war, or debates......... ), you could lose an arm or leg. So perhaps you should be more sharp with your knowledge. Otherwise, who will take you serious?................
dude , i dont answer trivial question. your question is not so strong for me to answer. If i get a 12 yrs old kid he will answer you.
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Israel: Please tell me Batman, or Sheikh, or whatever your name is.......please tell me: WHERE SPECIFICALLY in the Koran or Hadith does it say that a woman MUST wear a headscraf? I honestly don't know, so show me EXACTLY where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY speaks concerning the wearing of the hijab..................If you can't locate the acutual scripture to support your tirade, then you ought to be quiet. If you can show me where it is in the Koran or Hadith(Sahih Muslim or whatever version of Hadith), then I'll respect where you are coming from. AGAIN, I don't want your INTERPRETATION of nothing, I want to see where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY says(if such specificity even exists), "Women must wear a hijab".......Salaam
Suurat Alnoor, a lot of debate for nothin, Israel no muslim will take a word of islam from your mouth, why wanna debate then on such a think ... use your mind a bit more
Dude, it is quite possible that I may know MORE about Islam than you! I MIGHT be wrong: maybe you know more than I. It is possible...........But it is also VERY possible that I know more than you about your own religion..............
Show me where it is written concerning the MANDATORY OBLIGATION OF WEARING THE HIJAB so that I can look at it for myself. If this is the best ya'll Muslim apologists have than man.............ya'll couldn't hang in a real debate..............Again, I don't care about YOUR INTERPRETATION about what Muhammad said. I want to know WHAT SPECIFICALLY Muhammad said about wearing the hijab. If Muhammad said it, then fine. I don't really have a problem with it. But if ya'll can't even prove your own religion, then MAN..........I feel sorry for ya'll for real.........Salaam
The 12 yrs kid is coming here
Rules regarding Muslim women's (and men's) attire are derived from the Quran, Islam's revealed text, and the traditions (hadith) of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). In the Quran, God states: "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty...And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and adornments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers...(a list of exceptions)" [Chapter 24, verses 30-31] Also, "O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons...that they should be known and not molested." [Chapter 33, verse 59]
In one tradition, the Prophet Muhammad is quoted as saying: "...If the woman reaches the age of puberty, no part of her body should be seen but this --- and he pointed to his face and hands."
From these and other references, the vast majority of Muslim scholars and jurists, past and present, have determined the minimum requirements for Muslim women's dress: 1) Clothing must cover the entire body, with the exception of the face and the hands. 2) The attire should not be form fitting, sheer or so eye-catching as to attract undue attention or reveal the shape of the body.
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This is For Your Knowledeg هزيدك من الشعر بيت
The Veil in Judaism Is Mandatory and a Sign of Nobility
According to Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer, Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University, in his book The Jewish Woman in Rabbinic Literature, it was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering which, sometimes, even covered the whole face leaving one eye free. He quotes some famous ancient Rabbis saying “It is not like the daughters of Israel to walk out with heads uncovered” and “Cursed be the man who lets the hair of his wife be seen....a woman who exposes her hair for self-adornment brings poverty.” Rabbinic law forbids the recitation of blessings or prayers in the presence of a bareheaded married woman since uncovering the woman’s hair is considered “nudity.” Dr. Brayer also mentions that “during the Tannaitic period the Jewish woman’s failure to cover her head was considered an affront to her modesty. When her head was uncovered she might be fined four hundred zuzim for this offense.”
Dr. Brayer also explains that the veil of the Jewish woman was not always considered a sign of modesty. Sometimes, the veil symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of noble women. It also represented a woman’s inaccessibility as a sanctified possession of her husband. The veil signified a woman’s self-respect and social status. Women of lower classes would often wear the veil to give the impression of a higher standing. The fact that the veil was the sign of nobility was the reason why prostitutes were not permitted to cover their hair in the old Jewish society. However, prostitutes often wore a special headscarf in order to look respectable. Jewish women in Europe continued to wear veils until the nineteenth century, when their lives became more intermingled with the surrounding secular culture. The external pressures of the European life in the nineteenth century forced many of them to go out bareheaded. Some Jewish women found it more convenient to replace their traditional veil with a wig as another form of hair covering. Today, most pious Jewish women do not cover their hair except in the synagogue. Some of them, such as those in the Hasidic sects, still use the wig.
The Veil in Christianity Is Mandatory and Mentioned in the Bible
It is one of the great ironies of our world today that the very same headscarf revered as a sign of “holiness” when worn by Catholic nuns is reviled as a sign of “oppression” when worn for the purpose of modesty and protection by Muslim women. It is well known that Catholic nuns have been covering their heads for hundreds of years, but that is not all. St. Paul in the New Testament made some very interesting statements about the veil:
Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head. (I Corinthians 11:3-10)
St. Paul’s rationale for veiling women is that the veil represents a sign of the authority of the man, who is the image and glory of God, over the woman, who was created from and for man. St. Tertullian in his famous treatise On The Veiling Of Virgins wrote: “Young women, you wear your veils out on the streets, so you should wear them in the church, you wear them when you are among strangers, then wear them among your brothers.” Among the canon laws of the Catholic Church today is one that requires women to cover their heads in church. Some Christian denominations, such as the Amish and the Mennonites, keep their women veiled to the present day. The reason for the veil, as offered by their Church leaders, is that “the head covering is a symbol of woman’s subjection to the man and to God,” which is the same logic introduced by St. Paul in the New Testament.
Islam Didn’t Invent the Veil, It Only Endorsed It
From all the above evidence, it is obvious that Islam did not invent the head cover. However, Islam did endorse it. The Qur’an urges the believing men and women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty and then urges the believing women to extend their head covers to cover the neck and the bosom. The Qur’an says what means:
*{Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty...And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms}* (An-Nur 24:30-31).
The Qur’an is quite clear that the veil is essential for modesty, but why is modesty important? The Qur’an is still clear. It says what means:
*{O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies [when abroad] so that they should be known and not molested}* (Al-Ahzab 33:59).
This is the whole point: modesty is prescribed to protect women from molestation, or simply, modesty is protection. Thus, the main purpose of the hijab in Islam is protection.
The hijab, unlike the veil of the Christian tradition, is not a sign of man’s authority over woman nor is it a sign of woman’s subjection to man. The hijab, unlike the veil in the Jewish tradition, is not a sign of luxury and distinction of some noble married women. In Islam, the hijab is a sign of modesty that safeguards the personal integrity of women. The Qur’an strongly emphasizes the protection of women’s reputations and condemns men to be severely punished if they falsely accuse a woman of unchastity. The Qur’an says what means:
*{And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses [to support their allegations] flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors}* (An-Nur 24:4).
Secular Societies Failed to Protect Women Against Violation
Some people, especially in the West, tend to ridicule the whole argument of modesty for protection. Their argument is that the best protection is the spread of education, civilized behavior, and self-restraint. That’s fine, but not enough! If “civilization” is enough protection, then why is it that women in North America dare not walk alone in a dark street, or even across an empty parking lot? If education is the solution, then why is it that American universities have a walk home service mainly for female students on campus? If self-restraint is the answer, then why are cases of sexual harassment in the workplace reported on the news media every day? A sample of those accused of sexual harassment, in the last few years, includes: navy officers, managers, university professors, senators and the president of the United States! Following are some statistics, published in a pamphlet issued by the office of the Dean of Women at Queen’s University, Canada:
In Canada, a woman is sexually assaulted every 6 minutes, 1 in 3 women in Canada will be sexually assaulted at some time in their lives, 1 in 4 women are at the risk of rape or attempted rape in their lifetime, 1 in 8 women will be sexually assaulted while attending college or university, and a study found 60% of Canadian university-aged males said they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they wouldn’t get caught.
To combat the violation of women, a radical change in the society’s lifestyle and culture is absolutely necessary. A culture of modesty is desperately needed—modesty in dress, in speech, and in manners of both men and women. Otherwise, the grim statistics are likely to increase, and, unfortunately, women alone will be paying the price. Actually, we all suffer, but as Khalil Gibran has said, “the person who receives the blows, is not like the one who counts them.”
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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are you still avoiding my question about the Surah 2 aborgation? If you can't answer that question, then I don't have respect for all the info. that you post. If you can't answer that question, then why should I take you serious? Forget the question on hijab(which you apparently can't answer either).........see, you on here posting like you know something and it is obvious that you know nothing. The SwedishMuslim guy that used to post here: I respect. I'm not a Muslim, but I respect him because he came with MODESTY and with knowledge. And if I or someone else asked him a question, he would answer it. You on the other hand...........are truly UNARMED. So I'll leave you alone for now cause you are not armed for mental combat........ . Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Sheikh Batman quoted the Koran saying: Rules regarding Muslim women's (and men's) attire are derived from the Quran, Islam's revealed text, and the traditions (hadith) of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). In the Quran, God states: "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty...And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and adornments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers...(a list of exceptions)" [Chapter 24, verses 30-31] Also, "O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons...that they should be known and not molested." [Chapter 33, verse 59]
Thank you Batman. That was all I was asking for..................Yet you talk crap saying that, "dude, i wont answer anyone can simply search in Google for the answer". Why the sudden change of heart Batman? Did you feel that your back was against the wall if you didn't answer me?........Anyway, thank you for the quote. Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Israel: Please tell me Batman, or Sheikh, or whatever your name is.......please tell me: WHERE SPECIFICALLY in the Koran or Hadith does it say that a woman MUST wear a headscraf? I honestly don't know, so show me EXACTLY where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY speaks concerning the wearing of the hijab..................If you can't locate the acutual scripture to support your tirade, then you ought to be quiet. If you can show me where it is in the Koran or Hadith(Sahih Muslim or whatever version of Hadith), then I'll respect where you are coming from. AGAIN, I don't want your INTERPRETATION of nothing, I want to see where Muhammad SPECIFICALLY says(if such specificity even exists), "Women must wear a hijab".......Salaam
Suurat Alnoor, a lot of debate for nothin, Israel no muslim will take a word of islam from your mouth, why wanna debate then on such a think ... use your mind a bit more
Dude, it is quite possible that I may know MORE about Islam than you! I MIGHT be wrong: maybe you know more than I. It is possible...........But it is also VERY possible that I know more than you about your own religion..............
Show me where it is written concerning the MANDATORY OBLIGATION OF WEARING THE HIJAB so that I can look at it for myself. If this is the best ya'll Muslim apologists have than man.............ya'll couldn't hang in a real debate..............Again, I don't care about YOUR INTERPRETATION about what Muhammad said. I want to know WHAT SPECIFICALLY Muhammad said about wearing the hijab. If Muhammad said it, then fine. I don't really have a problem with it. But if ya'll can't even prove your own religion, then MAN..........I feel sorry for ya'll for real.........Salaam
.. sometimes it is better to be silent than to talk .. I debated this on the forum a long time ago with Dalia, I don't see her around lately, yet unfrotunatly I don't have a link to this and I want to repeat myself .. let me tell you .. well two words to say, "yadrobna 7'morehena 3ala jeeobeehena" that's it you need to see the debate then search for it I won't go through this again
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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you talk alot, yet on the other thread, I put evidence to you about Muhammad's father, and you havent answered and/or refuted my evidence. So therefore, it is quite possible that I know more than you about your own religion........ . Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Israel: whatever bibl1978,
you talk alot, yet on the other thread, I put evidence to you about Muhammad's father, and you havent answered and/or refuted my evidence. So therefore, it is quite possible that I know more than you about your own religion........ . Salaam
Israel, What evidence, does it include a photos and blood tissues? actualy what thread I didn't see it frankly, Israel I don't usually look at your posts, I always look for sane people to debate with and there are some of them here.
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Israel: whatever bibl1978,
So therefore, it is quite possible that I know more than you about your own religion........ . Salaam
I dont think you know anything about our religion since you dont know if it is obligatory to wear the hijabs or not. this simple matter in Islam , the little kids would know yet you sound to be an adult, so I wonder how do you claim you know more than him about our religion. lets see, if a woman has one son, then they both died, and the woman's brother claimed that her son died first but her husband claimed that she died first. what happens regarding the inheritance if the brother is telling the truth and what happens if he lie ? show us your knowledgment
Posts: 1201 | From: Egypt | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
as for the hijab, I would like to support arwa's topic with more proofs from the bible about wearing the hijab for the people who didnt read the bible: 1 Corinthians 11:6-13
If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head. 11 In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
Judge for yourselves Posts: 1201 | From: Egypt | Registered: Mar 2006
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you still have not refuted with any EVIDENCE the FACT of Muhammad's father being Black..............read for yourself in the book, "The World's Great Men of Color, Vol. 1". It is written, and honestly I truly LOVE to tell Muslims that Muhammad's father was Black, cause most of them(ya'll) don't know/aren't aware of this fact.......................................................So, just like in the other post, you have avoided my rebuttal. Why? Because you are UN-ARMED.....lol. And who started writing who? YOU WERE THE ONE RESPONDING TO ME WHEN I WAS GOING AT BATMAN! So if you don't want to deal with me, don't answer me. Esecially when I wasn't talking to you.............Regardless, unless you can PROVE that my assertion about Muhammad's father was wrong, then you can't hang with me. Hence, you are truly UN-ARMED....lol. Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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I don't have a beef with you, so lets keep it simple...........Now I know that it is CULTURALLY significant for many Muslims to have the hijab, but I didn't know the scriptural injunction commanding obedience to the wearing of hijab. That being said, I spoke to a Muslim who mentioned that for a few hundred years, the hijab was not a major issue in Islam. It started as some type of movement a few hundred years into the "unveiling" of Islam. Hence, the person(Muslim) with whom I spoke was kinda making the case that it wasn't absolutely necessary to wear the hijab. And this was a woman(whom I respect to the upmost and am a personal friend with) who WORE THE HIJAB EVERYDAY! So therefore, I simply wanted to know the truth...............And Mr. Egypt, I didn't say that I knew more than YOU, I said that I might know more than bibo1978 about Islam.........lol. Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Israel, it is ISLAMICALLY not CULTURALLY , obligatory to wear the hijab according to the Quran. if you dont believe it , this is another issue, but if you dont understand what the Quran say about it, we can try to make it easy for you to understand it. and when you address a muslim brother of something you say to him, it is addressing all muslims. dont you know already that all muslims are brothers to each other ? if you dont know then know............. lol
Posts: 1201 | From: Egypt | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
You can't ignore history mr. Egypt. Hijabing wasn't very important or debated about as religiously a must in Egypt until some decades ago. The obligating by religious fanatics of women in Afghanistan, Iran and now Irak to cover must be telling you something. The obvious movement to make all muslims look and talk alike must be telling you something. Of course it speaks differently to different people.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
How Islam is taught to students--especially those preparing to be future important clerics--is an issue drawing increasing scrutiny. This article shows the sharp contrast between the methods used in Tunisia and those employed in Saudi Arabia and Egypt. It includes a large portion of the student guide to courses and readings used in the Tunisian Islamic university as well as an exam given therein to demonstrate practical ways of teaching moderate interpretations of Islam.
posted
Thank you Demiana and Dalia. Throughout religious history, people interpret things differently. That is why there are wars and things like that Mr. Egypt, understand? Lets be real............why is it that when Muslims come to the West, that they are often times not a fervent or rigid in their religious life? It is because the culture of western society is not inclined towards Islam.........if toward any religion, the Western countries are inclined towards the religion of their CULTURE, Christianity. What I am saying is that what is considered "Islamic" to you may if fact just be a cultural norm to others. And then when they get away from a theocratic society, they act according to what was in their heart all along. Hence, I wanted to know whether the hijab was found in the Quran or not. And concerning the "Muslim brotherhood".........lol. Well, I feel the exact same way about my Christian people: the exact same way. So I don't think it is cool at all that Christians are constantly persecuted in Egypt. It ain't cool at all............want proof? Here it is: www.cbn.com/cbnnews/CWN/02180Smurders.aspx
A great quote from this article:
"Coptic Christians told us they came to America to be protected from Muslim extremism. But many now feel as if America is letting them down.
One woman said, 'Our families in Egypt are under this type of threat every single day. Keep this story alive'..........".
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
The article didn't work when I checked it, but here it is in copied form............
AROUND THE WORLD Jihad in Jersey City? By Dale Hurd CWNews
CWNews.org Jersey City, N.J. -- "When a Coptic Christian family in the state of New Jersey was murdered-- execution-style--last month, it may have been just another tragic homicide. But it may have also been an act of Islamic terrorism.
Members of Jersey City's Coptic Christian community are now afraid that they're being hunted. They're also afraid that justice will not be served. Some are calling the crime the "Jihad in Jersey City."
At a candlelight vigil Sunday night at the Jersey City home of the dead Armanious family, mourners not only prayed for the victims, they prayed for justice.
Because, rightly or wrongly, there is a real fear in this tightly knit immigrant community of Egyptian Christians that police don't want to find the real perpetrators of this crime.
One month ago the Armanious family was found brutally murdered here in their home and police have still not announced a suspect. Police have suggested the murder was for money. But almost no one in Jersey City's Coptic community is accepting that.
Hossam Armanious, his wife Amal, and daughters 15-year-old Sylvia and 8-year- old Monica were found duct-taped to chairs, their throats savagely cut.
Many believe the murder was a hate crime because Hossam Armanious was an outspoken Christian. Rafigue Iscander was a personal friend and one-time business associate of Hossam Armanious.
Mr. Icsander said, "I knew Mr. Armanious in 1982. We worked together. The guy was religious guy...straight guy. You depend on him to do anything."
Armanious, under the screen name of "I Love Jesus," shared his faith and debated Muslims on the Website Paltalk.com. But he apparently created enemies, because one of the members of Paltalk told a New York newspaper that shortly before the murders, he saw a posted message in a chat room that someone was going to track Armanious down like a chicken and kill him -- a middle eastern reference to slitting the throat.
Then after the murder, a photo of Hossam Armanious and his wife was posted on a radical Muslim Web site Barsomyat.com, with this message: "This is a picture of the filthy dog, curser of Muhammad and a photo of his filthy wife, curser of Muhammad. They got what they deserved for their actions in America. They were slaughtered along with their children as a punishment from the heavens to those who curse the most divine of all who were created."
At the funeral, grief turned to rage, as mourners called the killings an act of Muslim terror.
The murders have created a sense of dread among Jersey City's Coptic Christians, who fear that the Islamic persecution and violence they fled in Egypt has followed them to New Jersey.
One man says he hopes the police find the murderers because Egyptian Christians faced this kind of brutality and terror in Egypt.
And a woman says after the murders there is no safety for her family in the U.S., and she's leaving New Jersey.
Investigators recently told a New Jersey newspaper that they still believe the murders were about money, even though relatives of the victims told us the Armanious family was poor. Police say the house was ransacked and money was taken, but relatives told us almost nothing was taken.
Add-Family members also wonder why, if it was robbery, did Amal Armanious still have a $3,500 ring on her finger when her body was found?
Relatives of the victims held a national press conference Tuesday in Washington to state, while they're not blaming anyone for the crime, they will not accept robbery as a motive, as they also told us when they invited us into their home.
Ayman Garas is Mrs. Armanious' brother. He said, "It's out of the discussion if you even say robbery. This is not acceptable. It's not robbery, no."
And Emad Garas, who is also related to the family, said, "We know it's not a robbery. We know it's not a vendetta. We know it's not financial. We want to know the motive."
But some are wondering if there is political pressure to somehow turn an anti-Christian hate crime into a robbery. And at the Press conference, human rights leaders appealed to the Justice Department to get involved in the case.
Coptic Christians told us they came to America to be protected from Muslim extremism. But many now feel as if America is letting them down.
One woman said, "Our families in Egypt are under this type of threat every single day. Keep this story alive. Remember these people; these people were normal human beings asleep in their homes."
Perhaps Police will find that the Armanious family was killed over money. And police may say they have the evidence to support it. But judging from what we heard on the streets of Jersey City, it seems doubtful that the Coptic Christian Community here will ever believe it was robbery."
What do you think of this Mr. Egypt? Hence the saying that "whatsoever you have done to the least of my brethren, you have done to me"......quotation from Jesus the Christ........... Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: How Islam is taught to students--especially those preparing to be future important clerics--is an issue drawing increasing scrutiny. This article shows the sharp contrast between the methods used in Tunisia and those employed in Saudi Arabia and Egypt. It includes a large portion of the student guide to courses and readings used in the Tunisian Islamic university as well as an exam given therein to demonstrate practical ways of teaching moderate interpretations of Islam.
quote:Originally posted by Arwa: Salam Israel, Please don't tell that in Bible or Torah do not mention that women should wear veil:
In Genesis 24:63–65
And Rebekah arose, and her damsels, and they rode upon the camels, and followed the man: and the servant took Rebekah, and went his way. And Isaac came from the way of the well Lahai-roi; for he dwelt in the south country. And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, the camels were coming. And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel. For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.
Where in that passage did it imply that a Phrophet recieved a vision, a message from God? Word for Word from God?
All I see is a habit, a custom of the day and age.
Where is the reference to God's own word?
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Batman , discovering lies:
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: How Islam is taught to students--especially those preparing to be future important clerics--is an issue drawing increasing scrutiny. This article shows the sharp contrast between the methods used in Tunisia and those employed in Saudi Arabia and Egypt. It includes a large portion of the student guide to courses and readings used in the Tunisian Islamic university as well as an exam given therein to demonstrate practical ways of teaching moderate interpretations of Islam.
I will say this about the Israelis, at least they will make differentiations between different forms of ideology, but Moshe Dayan isn't the kind of guy you want as an editor:
So its a helpful informative site with some major drawbacks of the editorial staff.
Much like how Dalia had quoted a Mullah who was on KSA's own terrorist watchlist.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God): This is For Your Knowledeg هزيدك من الشعر بيت
The Veil in Judaism Is Mandatory and a Sign of Nobility
According to Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer, Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University, in his book The Jewish Woman in Rabbinic Literature, it was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering which, sometimes, even covered the whole face leaving one eye free. He quotes some famous ancient Rabbis saying “It is not like the daughters of Israel to walk out with heads uncovered” and “Cursed be the man who lets the hair of his wife be seen....a woman who exposes her hair for self-adornment brings poverty.” Rabbinic law forbids the recitation of blessings or prayers in the presence of a bareheaded married woman since uncovering the woman’s hair is considered “nudity.” Dr. Brayer also mentions that “during the Tannaitic period the Jewish woman’s failure to cover her head was considered an affront to her modesty. When her head was uncovered she might be fined four hundred zuzim for this offense.”
Dr. Brayer also explains that the veil of the Jewish woman was not always considered a sign of modesty. Sometimes, the veil symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of noble women. It also represented a woman’s inaccessibility as a sanctified possession of her husband. The veil signified a woman’s self-respect and social status. Women of lower classes would often wear the veil to give the impression of a higher standing. The fact that the veil was the sign of nobility was the reason why prostitutes were not permitted to cover their hair in the old Jewish society. However, prostitutes often wore a special headscarf in order to look respectable. Jewish women in Europe continued to wear veils until the nineteenth century, when their lives became more intermingled with the surrounding secular culture. The external pressures of the European life in the nineteenth century forced many of them to go out bareheaded. Some Jewish women found it more convenient to replace their traditional veil with a wig as another form of hair covering. Today, most pious Jewish women do not cover their hair except in the synagogue. Some of them, such as those in the Hasidic sects, still use the wig.
The Veil in Christianity Is Mandatory and Mentioned in the Bible
It is one of the great ironies of our world today that the very same headscarf revered as a sign of “holiness” when worn by Catholic nuns is reviled as a sign of “oppression” when worn for the purpose of modesty and protection by Muslim women. It is well known that Catholic nuns have been covering their heads for hundreds of years, but that is not all. St. Paul in the New Testament made some very interesting statements about the veil:
Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head. (I Corinthians 11:3-10)
St. Paul’s rationale for veiling women is that the veil represents a sign of the authority of the man, who is the image and glory of God, over the woman, who was created from and for man. St. Tertullian in his famous treatise On The Veiling Of Virgins wrote: “Young women, you wear your veils out on the streets, so you should wear them in the church, you wear them when you are among strangers, then wear them among your brothers.” Among the canon laws of the Catholic Church today is one that requires women to cover their heads in church. Some Christian denominations, such as the Amish and the Mennonites, keep their women veiled to the present day. The reason for the veil, as offered by their Church leaders, is that “the head covering is a symbol of woman’s subjection to the man and to God,” which is the same logic introduced by St. Paul in the New Testament.
Islam Didn’t Invent the Veil, It Only Endorsed It
From all the above evidence, it is obvious that Islam did not invent the head cover. However, Islam did endorse it. The Qur’an urges the believing men and women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty and then urges the believing women to extend their head covers to cover the neck and the bosom. The Qur’an says what means:
*{Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty...And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms}* (An-Nur 24:30-31).
The Qur’an is quite clear that the veil is essential for modesty, but why is modesty important? The Qur’an is still clear. It says what means:
*{O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies [when abroad] so that they should be known and not molested}* (Al-Ahzab 33:59).
This is the whole point: modesty is prescribed to protect women from molestation, or simply, modesty is protection. Thus, the main purpose of the hijab in Islam is protection.
The hijab, unlike the veil of the Christian tradition, is not a sign of man’s authority over woman nor is it a sign of woman’s subjection to man. The hijab, unlike the veil in the Jewish tradition, is not a sign of luxury and distinction of some noble married women. In Islam, the hijab is a sign of modesty that safeguards the personal integrity of women. The Qur’an strongly emphasizes the protection of women’s reputations and condemns men to be severely punished if they falsely accuse a woman of unchastity. The Qur’an says what means:
*{And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses [to support their allegations] flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors}* (An-Nur 24:4).
Secular Societies Failed to Protect Women Against Violation
Some people, especially in the West, tend to ridicule the whole argument of modesty for protection. Their argument is that the best protection is the spread of education, civilized behavior, and self-restraint. That’s fine, but not enough! If “civilization” is enough protection, then why is it that women in North America dare not walk alone in a dark street, or even across an empty parking lot? If education is the solution, then why is it that American universities have a walk home service mainly for female students on campus? If self-restraint is the answer, then why are cases of sexual harassment in the workplace reported on the news media every day? A sample of those accused of sexual harassment, in the last few years, includes: navy officers, managers, university professors, senators and the president of the United States! Following are some statistics, published in a pamphlet issued by the office of the Dean of Women at Queen’s University, Canada:
In Canada, a woman is sexually assaulted every 6 minutes, 1 in 3 women in Canada will be sexually assaulted at some time in their lives, 1 in 4 women are at the risk of rape or attempted rape in their lifetime, 1 in 8 women will be sexually assaulted while attending college or university, and a study found 60% of Canadian university-aged males said they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they wouldn’t get caught.
To combat the violation of women, a radical change in the society’s lifestyle and culture is absolutely necessary. A culture of modesty is desperately needed—modesty in dress, in speech, and in manners of both men and women. Otherwise, the grim statistics are likely to increase, and, unfortunately, women alone will be paying the price. Actually, we all suffer, but as Khalil Gibran has said, “the person who receives the blows, is not like the one who counts them.”
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Batman , discovering lies: israel is studying the middle east affairs
Actually its the Israelis who report on Arab media to the west the most. Arab media rarely puts out any of their content in English or otherwise, so the Israelis fill that gap.
Arabs don't particular feel compelled to share their culture with outsiders so its a self-petuating lack of motivation to straight out the stereotypes.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Batman , discovering lies: israel is studying the middle east affairs
Acutually, yes I have. I have taken Islamic history courses, and I have studied Arabic. Therefore, I know what I am talking about.........So, do you mock Batman? You think/believe that this story isn't legit? If so, you may in fact be cold-hearted. Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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