"You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD." Leviticus 19:18 (NRS)
Here we shall examine some of the ethics in the New Testament.
Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (KJV) Who would follow this? Love your enemy? Sure, it's noble, but it's not practical. It's even more noble if the person who preaches it actually follows it. However, an examination of the Gospels will show this philosophy to be not only impractical, but also, in practice, makes Jesus into a hypocrite. Let's look at another excerpt from this chapter of Matthew:
Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. (KJV) Conceptually, this portion which I highlighted, is basically good. Let's see if Jesus practiced what he preached when he spoke:
Matthew 23:17 [Ye] fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? (KJV)
Luke 11:40 [Ye] fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? (KJV) This is the same Jesus who called the Pharisees hypocrites. Did Jesus love his enemies? Did he love the Pharisees who are completely villified for not believing in Jesus?
John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (KJV) Jesus loved his neighbors until they opposed him and became his enemies. And then he didn't even follow his own advice of loving them.
And what of Paul? Did he follow Jesus' teachings? After all, he claimed to be closest to Jesus spiritually, even though he never met Jesus.
1 Thessalonians 2:14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of G-d in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, [15] who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to G-d, but hostile to all men, (NAS) KJV's rendering slightly different, saying "contrary to all men." NAS, on the other hand, is a bit more severe. Defaming the Jews, claiming we're "hostile to all men," is hardly the sign of a person who loves his enemies.
"Love your enemy" is a completely impractical and foolish precept. Few Christians follow it, and the ones who do follow it are the ones who are unwilling to do anything when evil is confronting them. These are the ones who would rather sit back and hope for the best, instead of standing upright and righting the wrongs in society.
John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. (KJV) If we were to implement this ethic, we would end up with a society full of people who when push comes to shove are unwilling to stand up and do what's right. How are to we to have punishment for crimes in this world if we bind ourselves like this? How are we to even try to achieve justice if we follow this ethic? What kind of world does it create?
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You can love your enemies and yet don't accept wrongdoing. You may love your spouse and yet don't accept abusive behaviour. Simply split the person from the act and reciproke in a 'loving' way. Could be 'tough love', non-responding, withdrawing, talking reason, even fighting. It just is not lashing out in revenge, hatred or uncontrolled violence.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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Christianity's fundamental teaching regarding God, is that GOD IS LOVE. Now, love can 'never' be exercised in isolation. You cannot be all-loving and be alone. Love is manifested 'in relationship'.
It is from this same perspective -- that GOD IS LOVE - that we should try to explain how Jesus can be the Son of God. Such a statement is blasphemous to Muslims; they believe that God is "far above" having a son. On the contrary, Christians see the Sonship of Jesus not as a blasphemy but as a testimony to the divine love, which is so intense (again, beyond all human understanding) that God was not content only to bless his creation from outside of it. No, actually humbled himself to the point of becoming a part of his creation through the Incarnation of his Son Jesus Christ! By becoming part of the created order, by taking on a full and a complete human nature, God sanctified humanity "from within," so to speak. Both Islam and Christianity say that God is totally other and beyond human comprehension, completely beyond the ability of humans to grasp, yet Christians add something completely different: that God sanctified the world by deigning to become part of it, by loving us so much that he was willing "to come down from his throne" to became part of this mess which we call the world. In this bold, and wonderful assertion,Christianity stands apart from both Judaism and Islam, which stress the total otherness and transcendence of God to the point where it is incomprehensible to them that He could become part of the created order.
We Christians never loose sight of the fact that even though we are Trinitarian, we affirm that there is only "one God". In fact, Christians always say "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, ONE GOD!"(in Arabic: "Bismilabi wal-ibni war-ruhi-l-quddus, ALLAH WAHID!"). This is to show that in affirming the Trinity, we do not deny in any way that God is one.
Posts: 315 | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Mr Egypt: Love Your Enemy?
"You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD." Leviticus 19:18 (NRS)
don't preach what you dont practice
Do you think the love and peace will be from one side or two,if your enemy followed the same teaching then the peace and love will come,if you want to love your barbaric enemy who wants to kill you because you are in opposite to his belief what you will do? your enemy trying to kill you in bus,cafe...etc so what you will do?
Christians countries are sending evangelisms and missionaries for muslims worldwide to teach them the love and peace ,but satan followers persecuting and killing who is leaving Islam and forbidding the missionaries to work with muslims,you can find peace and love in Europe,America and many countries who are following the teaching of Jesus,but you won't find peace between Israel and muslim countries or Iran and Iraq because they are following the same war and revenge teaching "Eye by eye,kill apostates,revenge,kill the disbelievers of Mohamed...etc. Hope you understand once a day.
Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by loveforever: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr Egypt: [qb] Love Your Enemy?
Hope you understand once a day.
he will never understand, his god is the the devil himself, there are things that muslims dont understand, it's above them to understand.........
Posts: 226 | Registered: Mar 2006
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The divinity and humanity of Jesus can in a way be like our mixed children. My kids are both Dutch and Egyptian by being born into a Dutch and an Egyptian parent. They are both. Their Dutchness is not standing in the way of their being Egyptian. In the end it will go beyond this they will be bridgebuilders and citizens of the world.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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Mr Egypt after what had posted here about Islam he doesn't know what to do and how he will refute ,so he didn't find than going to their enemies sites (Jewish) may he can find anything antichrist,this site for Jews who refused the grace of JESUS and Muslims also refused JESUS,so both of them are suffering in their countries from terrors,wars...etc.
Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by loveforever: Mr Egypt after what had posted here about Islam he doesn't know what to do and how he will refute ,so he didn't find than going to their enemies sites (Jewish) may he can find anything antichrist,this site for Jews who refused the grace of JESUS and Muslims also refused JESUS,so both of them are suffering in their countries from terrors,wars...etc.
LOL. you make me laugh love. the reason I posted from this site is it is anti islamic site as well so no one will say you copy and paste from islamic sites that's against christianity. so it is also anti islamic site. and this article serve a purpose which I do agree with. you copy and paste anti islamic sites all the time which shows nothing than hatred so I wondered where is your bible teachings had gone ? doesnt your bible teach you to love your enemy ? so where is the love you show for muslims here on the forum ? I guess if you cant live with your bible teachings you better throw it in the garbage Posts: 1201 | From: Egypt | Registered: Mar 2006
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who told you that Muslims are my enemy many of them are my friends. my enemy is the Ideology of terrorism that may kill me or my family in the street regardless who is behind,I consider Muslims are victims and need help to fix what Mohammed did,don't you know that all Muslim countries reviewing their Islamic books to remove all the hatred and revenge teaching and to be the New Middle East Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by loveforever: who told you that Muslims are my enemy many of them are my friends. my enemy is the Ideology of terrorism that may kill me or my family in the street regardless who is behind,I consider Muslims are victims and need help to fix what Mohammed did,don't you know that all Muslim countries reviewing their Islamic books to remove all the hatred and revenge teaching and to be the New Middle East
y the christian terrorist go to kill that women in Niqab in Alex.??
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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why pope shenouida tells his follower to not rent any apartment to a muslim?
why pope shenouda tell his follower not to sell anything to a muslim?
y pope shenouda want to make another government in Egypt?
y pope shnouda tells his follower muslims are an arab coming to Egypt to invade it and refer that muslims are not orginally egyptian.
y pope shenouda ignore the fact that muslims are Egyptian reverts to islam
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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would you give us the source of these news ,I am wondering how he will say that and still alive in Egypt,he isn't my pope by the way,it's better to read the history of Copts before giving your judgement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoptPosts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by loveforever: who told you that Muslims are my enemy many of them are my friends. my enemy is the Ideology of terrorism that may kill me or my family in the street regardless who is behind,I consider Muslims are victims and need help to fix what Mohammed did,don't you know that all Muslim countries reviewing their Islamic books to remove all the hatred and revenge teaching and to be the New Middle East
y the christian terrorist go to kill that women in Niqab in Alex.??
If this news is right so he deosn't belong to christianity because Jesus didn't incite to kill or revenge.
Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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Pope Shenouda III: Pope Benedict XVI disregarded Muslim feelings
Pope Shenouda III of Alexandria and Patriarch of Saint Mark Diocese criticized Sunday remarks by Pope Benedict XVI that offended Muslims worldwide in a lecture last week at a German university.
At a press conference, Pope Shenouda III said the Vatican Pope should have taken into consideration reaction of Muslims before hurting the feelings of one billion Muslims.
Pope Shenouda III said he does not know the motives of the Vatican Pope in making such statements on Islam.
But Pope Shenouda III said he believes that Pope Benedict XVI was driven by a proposal by a minister in his native Germany to teach Islam in state schools. "I think Pope Benedict's statements were in response to such a proposal, Pope Shenouda III said, "but I might be wrong," he added.
Speaking at a German University on Tuesday, Benedict quoted criticism of Islam and Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) by 14th century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II who wrote that everything Muhammad brought was evil and inhuman, "such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
Pope Shenouda III said that Pope Benedict XVI should have mentioned the response of the Persian man to the Byzantine emperor or those who reacted at the time. He said the Egyptians should not be blamed for the mistakes of the other.
"Egypt is targeted because it is a symbol of Islamic-Christian coexistence over the past 14 centuries," Pope Shenouda said. "Christianity teaches us to love the other. Though we might differ with the other in some religious concepts, this difference should not evolve into a clash," he noted.
Asked whether he will send a statement to the Catholic Pope, Pope Shenouda III said that he did not exchange messages with the Catholic Pope to express his viewpoint on what he had said.
The Pope hoped that Pope Benedict's statements would not undermine the distinguished ties between Islam and Christianity.
Egyptian Christians look highly on Islamic civilization and its contributions to human heritage, said Pope Shenouda III, adding that Islam is a religion of tolerance and mercy.
Egypt: Coptic Pope Publicly Insults Seventh-day Adventist Church
January 14, 2003 Cyprus, Egypt .... [Wendi Rogers/Ray Dabrowski/ANN]
In a television interview with Egyptian TV on Jan. 7, Pope Shenouda III of the Coptic Orthodox Church in Egypt said that Christians and Muslims are united in Egypt, but that Seventh-day Adventists, along with others, are disturbing the unity in the country.
Emphasizing his love for Muslims, Shenouda also listed as unity disturbers Jehovah's Witnesses and American Jews.
Shenouda's comments followed a message from the president of Egypt, Hosny Mubarak, declaring Coptic Christmas, Jan. 7, as a national holiday for Christians as well as Muslims.
"Pope Shenouda is known for making controversial statements," said Dr. Bert B. Beach, general secretary of the Council on Inter-church/faith Relations at the Seventh-day Adventist Church World Headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland, United States. "In view of the rather tense situation in the Middle East, one would expect Christian church leaders not to make irresponsible statements that can exacerbate Christian-Muslim relations. It is important to work for peaceful relations, both among Christians and across religious borders," he said.
"Seventh-day Adventists in Egypt are regarded as peaceful and law-abiding citizens of that country," Beach continued. "The Adventist Church is always ready to dialogue with other Christian churches and work in harmony for the good of Egyptian society."
Adventist Church leaders in Egypt made an appeal to the president of the television station. Peter Zarka, president of the church in the region, says that they were "assured by the TV president that the [Adventist] Church will have some minutes on TV when it can introduce itself to the public of Egypt and, by this way, the TV [station] can compensate the Adventist Church for the insult."
In an interview with the Adventist News Network, Beach explained that "Pope Shenouda has said that Adventists do not believe in the divinity of Christ and that they are Zionists. Both these statements are not only astonishing, but untrue. The divinity of Christ and the trinity are for Adventists long-standing fundamental beliefs. For Adventists, the state of Israel has no special prophetic significance, but is simply one of the scores of states recognized by the United Nations," he said.
According to Zarka, this would be the first time the church has been given the opportunity to present a message on Egyptian television. Christian churches are given airtime just two times a year--at Christmas and Easter, for the Coptic Orthodox Church and the Evangelical Church.
The Adventist Church in Egypt is not an immigrant church, Beach explained, but it is "an Egyptian church that has been organized in that country for more than a century."
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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I am very sorry pope Shenouda is overly pleasing his Islamic hosts, or hostage keepers. He is overstepping his boundaries in the remarks about other Christian denominations and, in the other thread the need to have a balance from coptics in America to balance the Jews. It is subservient. The only explanation I can come up with is an excessive but understandable need to be allright despite the circumstances, as in the Stockholm syndrome. If one surrenders to the threats of an abuser one easily may become helpfull to the bad acts towards others.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by loveforever: who told you that Muslims are my enemy many of them are my friends. my enemy is the Ideology of terrorism that may kill me or my family in the street regardless who is behind,I consider Muslims are victims and need help to fix what Mohammed did,don't you know that all Muslim countries reviewing their Islamic books to remove all the hatred and revenge teaching and to be the New Middle East
y the christian terrorist go to kill that women in Niqab in Alex.??
If this news is right so he deosn't belong to christianity because Jesus didn't incite to kill or revenge.
Even Christians can perform bad acts. We obviously are sinners and don't always do the right thing. We get mislead too or have disorders. The only thing is that we can expect God to help us and forgive us and by grace not fall out of his hand.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by loveforever: Mr Egypt after what had posted here about Islam he doesn't know what to do and how he will refute ,so he didn't find than going to their enemies sites (Jewish) may he can find anything antichrist,this site for Jews who refused the grace of JESUS and Muslims also refused JESUS,so both of them are suffering in their countries from terrors,wars...etc.
Yeah, he knowws more about Christianity than Islam, and he is a Muslim. He still hasn't answered my questions about the abrogated versus of the Koran........why hasn't he answered it, one may ask? It is because he doesn't know. He doesn't even know his own religion. Pathetic. Pure ignorance. But I don't blame him, cause ignorance is bliss. Hence, his posts are manifestations of his blissful ignorance. Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: I am very sorry pope Shenouda is overly pleasing his Islamic hosts, or hostage keepers. He is overstepping his boundaries in the remarks about other Christian denominations and, in the other thread the need to have a balance from coptics in America to balance the Jews. It is subservient. The only explanation I can come up with is an excessive but understandable need to be allright despite the circumstances, as in the Stockholm syndrome. If one surrenders to the threats of an abuser one easily may become helpfull to the bad acts towards others.
I know what is happening here...........Some friends of mine from Ethiopia expressed the same views. The Protestant Christians are making huge inroads into Ethiopia. The Orthodox Church there doesn't like it. I was told by some friends of mind who are Ethiopian Orthodox that between Muslims and Protestants, the Orthodox acutually prefer the Muslims over the Protestants. This is happening basically because there is a competition for influence. In Egypt, some Coptic Christians may decide to become Seventh Day Adventist or Pentecostal. The Coptic Church, politically speaking, doesn't like that. And the Muslims don't like it because perhaps some of their people might become Protestants as well. Hence, they collaborate together to stop the influence of Protestants. Hence, that is, to me, the spirit of Pope Shu. words that he spoke against the Adventists. I personally think that Christians should come together rather than worry about all that type of bullcrap. Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by loveforever: Mr Egypt after what had posted here about Islam he doesn't know what to do and how he will refute ,so he didn't find than going to their enemies sites (Jewish) may he can find anything antichrist,this site for Jews who refused the grace of JESUS and Muslims also refused JESUS,so both of them are suffering in their countries from terrors,wars...etc.
Yeah, he knowws more about Christianity than Islam, and he is a Muslim. He still hasn't answered my questions about the abrogated versus of the Koran........why hasn't he answered it, one may ask? It is because he doesn't know. He doesn't even know his own religion. Pathetic. Pure ignorance. But I don't blame him, cause ignorance is bliss. Hence, his posts are manifestations of his blissful ignorance. Salaam
if you read Arabic there is a popular egyptian saying :
ro7 shoflak motah 2bl el moot ma yeghla
didnt I tell you to create a new thread and ask what you want ? if you are dying to get me answer then post a new thread and ask whatever you want, if you dont then like I said in arabic, ro7 shoflak motah
Posts: 1201 | From: Egypt | Registered: Mar 2006
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thanks Israel, I am aware this can be involved too. It happens in Russia where the orthodox church is also not allowing any other Christian denomination. It is wrong and of no service to the believers although it may to the church.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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