quote:The critical phenomenon in its importance to Arab-Islamic society is honor. A man’s honor is sharaf. It is flexible, dynamic, and subject to change in accord with his deeds. A woman’s honor is `ird (also meaning her pelvis). In contrast to a man’s honor, this is firm and permanent. The woman grows up with her honor, and her most important role is to preserve it. The moment that a woman’s honor is lost, it cannot be restored, and a man’s honor is severely wounded. Indeed, Muslim society is based on the virginity of its daughters. Honor is the most important supreme value in Arab life, more important than life itself. A man without honor is considered dead. Hence the saying, “It is better to die with honor than live with humiliation.” A man’s place in the tribe, as well as the tribe’s place among the tribes, was according to the measure of his and its honor. When honor was harmed, shame was caused which originated in public exposure, overt to everyone, a phenomenon which severely humiliated a man. Indeed, the Arab individual is caught up throughout his whole life in intensive activity to avoid shame and advance his honor. The central means for this was vengeance. Honor is restored only when vengeance has been carried out in public and is known to all.
Excerpted from the book: The Arab Personality
Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
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This, of course, refers to groups of tribesmen in the middle of the wilderness. While a bit of it is true,it is quite exaggerated, out of date and the way it is presented makes it look quite comical. My guess is that the author of the book did it intentionally .... Bah! Arab hater , lets go get him!
No, seriously, if this is a serious question looking for a truthful explanation, here it is; virginity is seen to be important for the simple reason that sex is only allowed within wedlock. Do you have any problem with that? good chrisitians, ten commandments, thou shall not commit adultery....ring any bells?
so a girl who loses her virginity before marriage is seen to be a person with loose morals....and a man would think in terms of how likely is she to stay faithful to him. I was told that in the distant past men would not accept such thing under any circumstances but of course you can never know. If a man accepts it, he and his girl are not going to go tell the world about it, will they? But I dont know ...u see, I wasnt there.....The concept that it is unacceptable still exists ...BUT.... now I'm here and I'm TELLING YA that increasingly it is disregarded .... although, again nobody declares that.
P.S. I'm talking about Egypt ... I dunno about other communities.
A flashback to Europe 100 years ago, a high society lady who gets in trouble of that kind is kicked out of the bosom of her family and condemned to a life among the demi-monde. Examples from history: Julia Johnstone who was a niece of the Earl of Carysfort and her real name then was Julia Storer having been seduced by a family friend at a house party and ending up pregnant was packed off to a convent to have the baby then flung into the abyss of courtesanry. Other examples include Grace Darlymple Eliot , from an Aristocratic Scots family and Gertrude MAHON, a granddaughter of the Earl of Cavan. Writer Katie Hickman states that "The history of courtesanry in Britain is full of womeh of high rank whose sexual misdemeanours had made them outcasts from society and who had no choice thereafter but to shift for themselves". As to poorer women, there were loads of them, too many to count and too obscure to remember...but you got the message, I'm sure. It was not so long ago in Britain that such a momentous occasion as losing your virginity out of wedlock made it impossible for you to go back home to your family
Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by homing pigeon: This, of course, refers to groups of tribesmen in the middle of the wilderness. While a bit of it is true,it is quite exaggerated, out of date and the way it is presented makes it look quite comical. My guess is that the author of the book did it intentionally .... Bah! Arab hater , lets go get him!
No, seriously, if this is a serious question looking for a truthful explanation, here it is; virginity is seen to be important for the simple reason that sex is only allowed within wedlock. Do you have any problem with that? good chrisitians, ten commandments, thou shall not commit adultery....ring any bells?
so a girl who loses her virginity before marriage is seen to be a person with loose morals....and a man would think in terms of how likely is she to stay faithful to him. I was told that in the distant past men would not accept such thing under any circumstances but of course you can never know. If a man accepts it, he and his girl are not going to go tell the world about it, will they? But I dont know ...u see, I wasnt there.....The concept that it is unacceptable still exists ...BUT.... now I'm here and I'm TELLING YA that increasingly it is disregarded .... although, again nobody declares that.
P.S. I'm talking about Egypt ... I dunno about other communities.
A flashback to Europe 100 years ago, a high society lady who gets in trouble of that kind is kicked out of the bosom of her family and condemned to a life among the demi-monde. Examples from history: Julia Johnstone who was a niece of the Earl of Carysfort and her real name then was Julia Storer having been seduced by a family friend at a house party and ending up pregnant was packed off to a convent to have the baby then flung into the abyss of courtesanry. Other examples include Grace Darlymple Eliot , from an Aristocratic Scots family and Gertrude MAHON, a granddaughter of the Earl of Cavan. Writer Katie Hickman states that "The history of courtesanry on Britain is full of womeh of high rank whose sexual misdemeanours had made them outcasts from society and who had no choice thereafter but to shift for themselves". As to poorer women, there were loads of them, too many to count and too obscure to remember...but you got the message, I'm sure. It was not so long ago in Britain that such a momentous occasion as losing your virginity out of wedlock made it impossible for you to go back home to your family
Homing Pigeon,
What about Male virginity?
Didn't the Final Prophet expect men to remain virgins until marriage as well? Unless of course his father bought him a cocubine for pre-marital practice!
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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sure, that's why you find a trail of concubines hanging around anywhere you go .... boys dont even have time to go to school, busy practicing for the big day, u c!
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by homing pigeon: sure, that's why you find a trail of concubines hanging around anywhere you go .... boys dont even have time to go to school, busy practicing for the big day, u c!
No actually I was thinking that only the top 5% could afford cocubines and the practice faded out during the late 1700s when the supply of slaves had faded out as well. But there are rumors that the Gulf has a system around this currently.
And there are other things boys have to do instead of going to school, truancy isn't an infraction that boys are often punished for anyhow.
You can't deny that a guy losing his virginity is viewed differently than it is for gals.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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from what i know, it's a sin to have premarital sexual relation in Islam and Christianity for both males and females so whoever do or did this, have sinned and should repent and do it not again, and if God forgives so should we atleast try to.
Posts: 76 | From: Hurghada | Registered: Mar 2007
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Actually, Kahina, I replied in a sarcastic way because I felt that you were not really asking but just pointing fingers....However, if I am mistaken in that, then my appologies and my answer is in two parts :
First, regarding slavery I would have liked to say that Americans were more liable to be questioned about slavery than Arabs and Muslims; all those plantations running on slave labour at a time that there were very few slaves left in the Muslim world and they werent treated any more humanely than in Muslim places, either.....If you would like to say that Americans have rectified that grave mistake and freed all slaves, I'll say, so did we. What's more, we started before the Americans and got there before them as well. I posted something about how Islam went about to reduce the prevalenece of slavery in another thread. I'll dig it out for you in a minute.
Part 2: Yes, of course, boys losing virginity hardly features in the scheme of things. Society is more tolerant of THEIR sexual misdemeanours and even encourages them. But that was the same, too everywhere in the world. In Britain at the time I talked about earlier, aristrocratic fathers even took their boys to introduce them to the select brothels they frequented while it was the self same fathers who would turn their daughters out on their ears if they did the same things. That's no different in Muslim countries, except maybe that fathers wouldnt actively encourage their sons to seek premarital sex (which is not a bad thing). They would simply turn a blind eye to it when it happens....But most crucially, men dont usually advertise their extramarital activities either.
Now, if you tell me this is hypocritical...I agree but then if you want to convert the way things stand to the western version (allowing casual sex and multiple partners and setting very little value on chastity), that would be hypocritical, too because it is just changing one form of immorality for another. But before you think I'm taking a holier than thou attittude, I'll say I plead guilty to some of this behaviour myself before my marriage and it was all prefectly within the confines of an Arab culture. I'm only pointing out what I see as right. If the western world was advocating true civilisation that involves raising all the standards of the human race, this should include moral progress as well AND NOT as we see, removing any restrictions on human behaviour and legitimizing every perversion under the sun.
Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by homing pigeon: Actually, Kahina, I replied in a sarcastic way because I felt that you were not really asking but just pointing fingers....However, if I am mistaken in that, then my appologies and my answer is in two parts :
First, regarding slavery I would have liked to say that Americans were more liable to be questioned about slavery than Arabs and Muslims; all those plantations running on slave labour at a time that there were very few slaves left in the Muslim world and they werent treated any more humanely than in Muslim places, either.....If you would like to say that Americans have rectified that grave mistake and freed all slaves, I'll say, so did we. What's more, we started before the Americans and got there before them as well. I posted something about how Islam went about to reduce the prevalenece of slavery in another thread. I'll dig it out for you in a minute.
Part 2: Yes, of course, boys losing virginity hardly features in the scheme of things. Society is more tolerant of THEIR sexual misdemeanours and even encourages them. But that was the same, too everywhere in the world. In Britain at the time I talked about earlier, aristrocratic fathers even took their boys to introduce them to the select brothels they frequented while it was the self same fathers who would turn their daughters out on their ears if they did the same things. That's no different in Muslim countries, except maybe that fathers wouldnt actively encourage their sons to seek premarital sex (which is not a bad thing). They would simply turn a blind eye to it when it happens....But most crucially, men dont usually advertise their extramarital activities either.
Now, if you tell me this is hypocritical...I agree but then if you want to convert the way things stand to the western version (allowing casual sex and multiple partners and setting very little value on chastity), that would be hypocritical, too because it is just changing one form of immorality for another. But before you think I'm taking a holier than thou attittude, I'll say I plead guilty to some of this behaviour myself before my marriage and it was all prefectly within the confines of an Arab culture. I'm only pointing out what I see as right. If the western world was advocating true civilisation that involves raising all the standards of the human race, this should include moral progress as well AND NOT as we see, removing any restrictions on human behaviour and legitimizing every perversion under the sun.
Well said! In terms of a "model" for sexual morality, neither society earns the medal! Surely the beauty is in the eye of the beholder! As far as which society one would lean toward having the better approach, each member of the differing culture would see theirs as "better". I grew up Western and extramaritial sex IS the norm but I can and do absolutely embrace and appreciate the concept of discouraging sex before marriage AND try to raise my kids this way. However, I would much rather teach my children this important value WITHIN the context of Western society. Why? Because the choice to remain chaste or not becomes a truly authentic choice and not monitored by a meddlesome, double standard, patriarchial society. I mean, aren't girls there just basing their decision on fear... probably more fear from father or brotherthan God?
Posts: 407 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2007
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That's right. It's a long way for humanity to reach a perfect state.... Anyway, religion in general involves a system of organizing people's lives. It may be a workable position to try and split belief from behaviour and aim for perfection separately in both.Or, let's say aim for goodness to be more realistic. This would work well for multicultural/multireligion societies.
I am sure each relgion has got its own set of rules regarding chastity, including Islam and christianity. Atheists, too, might find their own rules to conform to within a moral non religious frame. I have no problem with any of those as long as each party doesnt make it their business to rip apart the other.
Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Good question. There is honor and then there is "false" honor. I would say the latter pertains to issues such as virginity.
Posts: 407 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2007
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The main reason why many cultures have historically prohibited women from indulging in pre-marital sex, is due to the risk of pregnancy..
Without proper birth control methods, the risk of pregnancy from unprotected sex is high, and there would be bastards all over the place.
Still, much of the time, these stipulations did NOT prevent women from having pre-marital or adulterous sex.
In Ancient Rome, adultery and pre-marital sex were common in both men and women (especially before Emperor Augustus enacted new Marriage laws), and there was a certain herb which women used to terminate pregnancy related to the modern herb asafoetida.
This flower was so popular and so effective, that it eventually became EXTINCT!
As for why men were never really prevented from engaging in premarital sex, men tend to be much more sexually driven than women..
Thus, stopping a young man from having sex is FAR more difficult than stopping a woman..
And even so, there are repercussions involved..
Young men prohibited from having sex usually turn their frustration into anger, and we see situations like what we saw in Egypt last year with those rioting hordes which targeted females.
Also, an increase in homosexual behaviour typically occurs.
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: The main reason why many cultures have historically prohibited women from indulging in pre-marital sex, is due to the risk of pregnancy..
Paternity issues surely play a role in this, but I'd rather say it has more to do with the fact that they saw / see women as men's property. This also becomes clear if you look at current discussions on the issue.
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned:
there was a certain herb which women used to terminate pregnancy named asafoetida.
This flower was so popular and so effective, that it eventually became EXTINCT!
Can you prove this statement? Because as far as I know, asafoetida is still around. I use it myself in Indian recipes.
posted
The link between virginity and honour is not specifically Arab or muslim. I was listening toi a nineties song on the radio on my wy back from work that said " I'm your knight in a shining armour from a long time ago" I cant remember who the singer is. He went on to say "I am a man who would fight for your honour" and the radio 1 guy guy commented saying who would think of such a thing in the 21st century! But of course, the singer was posing as Medieval.....even Victorians had the same concept. That's why they had chaperones to protect a woman's "honor". Arabs, too....why not them as well!
But just as the idea has faded in the western world, it is fading in the Middle East as well. If you review the way Egyptian cinema has portrayed this issue over the years, you can see this clearly. Also, now you get things happening that show that the link between honor and virginity is fastly disappearing like that court hearing claiming paternity where the defendant was Ahmed ElFishawy and the girl was Hind ...Hind what? cant remember but she was fully supported by her family....no hangups about honour there....and several other things that point that way.
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by homing pigeon: The link between virginity and honour is not specifically Arab or muslim. I was listening toi a nineties song on the radio on my wy back from work that said " I'm your knight in a shining armour from a long time ago" I cant remember who the singer is. He went on to say "I am a man who would fight for your honour" and the radio 1 guy guy commented saying who would think of such a thing in the 21st century! But of course, the singer was posing as Medieval.....even Victorians had the same concept. That's why they had chaperones to protect a woman's "honor". Arabs, too....why not them as well!
But just as the idea has faded in the western world, it is fading in the Middle East as well. If you review the way Egyptian cinema has portrayed this issue over the years, you can see this clearly. Also, now you get things happening that show that the link between honor and virginity is fastly disappearing like that court hearing claiming paternity where the defendant was Ahmed ElFishawy and the girl was Hind ...Hind what? cant remember but she was fully supported by her family....no hangups about honour there....and several other things that point that way.
Hind had an Orfi marriage with ElFishawy. Then decided to have her child instead of an abortion.
Hind (in my opinion) behaved honorably, while ElFishawy didn't.
By the way the paternity was proved scientifically, I don't know why you chose to throw in the word "claiming".
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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Just because this is how it is used when u talk about court cases. I didnt mean that she was untruthful about it. I believed she was being truthful from the start before paternity was prooved. The important thing here is the whole incident shows how parents are begining to view such things differently now. Not so long ago they would just hide in shame, even though she had an orfy marriage. Orfy marriages are seen as a problem because they cant be registered in court like the regular ones and often cannot even be proved if you lose the piece of paper that serves as marriage contract.
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Because the men themselves don't know how to do it in bed and they don't want to be embarass when they have sex with an experienced woman so they target the virgins so they can boost their egos.
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Because the men themselves don't know how to do it in bed and they don't want to be embarass when they have sex with an experienced woman so they target the virgins so they can boost their egos.
Betty boo, I think you are right
Posts: 77 | From: AMSTERDAM | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by homing pigeon: The important thing here is the whole incident shows how parents are begining to view such things differently now. Not so long ago they would just hide in shame, even though she had an orfy marriage.
Hind's case was EXTREMELY unusual. Her father is a communist so doesn't have religious hang-ups. He was vilified in talk shows for not controlling his daughter. It certainly isn't a progressive trend in Egyptian society. Most do hide in shame.
The importance of virginity is, as Dalia said, that men want to control and possess women. In this part of the world, a woman's worth is in her body - her physical attractiveness, her virginity, her fertility. If she has none of those, she is handicapped in her search for a marriage partner and a 'fulfilled' life. Marrying a woman for her mind, her personality etc if she has none of the above, is still very unusual.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by citizen: Marrying a woman for her mind, her personality etc if she has none of the above, is still very unusual.
And when an Egyptian guy in the west marries a woman for these reasons he is still ostracized, no matter how many thousands of miles he is from home!
There are alot of knee caps I would love to swing a bat through! Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by citizen: In this part of the world, a woman's worth is in her body - her physical attractiveness, her virginity, her fertility. If she has none of those, she is handicapped in her search for a marriage partner and a 'fulfilled' life. Marrying a woman for her mind, her personality etc if she has none of the above, is still very unusual.
Surely, it isnt quite that bad, Citizen. What level of society are you talking about? Naturally, in the underpriviliged, not women nor men have much on the intellectual level so naturally they would look for what they can understand. But, in our country, there are piles and piles of educated people who have a slightly different perspective. And anyway, a woman's looks are her first asset anywhere in the world.
Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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But is it still important in a eyes of a male to be a virgin just as its important for a woman . how does the male muslim percive himself into days society .. Could we say the main VIRGINS domineering males of the world would be muslims .
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Why is this troubling you? Is that such a baaaad thing...that a guy only has sex when he is married? Is extramarital sex such a necessary requirement for life that Islam has ruined people's life by ruling it out? Ok how about Christianity's ten commandments then? Thou shalt not commit adultery...... Are the christians of the West so wonderful for having ignored this commandment? why? and what next? ignore the one that says you shall not steal, and then consider having murdered at least ONE man in your life to be a basic need.....where is this going?
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by citizen: In this part of the world, a woman's worth is in her body - her physical attractiveness, her virginity, her fertility. If she has none of those, she is handicapped in her search for a marriage partner and a 'fulfilled' life. Marrying a woman for her mind, her personality etc if she has none of the above, is still very unusual.
Surely, it isnt quite that bad, Citizen. What level of society are you talking about? Naturally, in the underpriviliged, not women nor men have much on the intellectual level so naturally they would look for what they can understand. But, in our country, there are piles and piles of educated people who have a slightly different perspective. And anyway, a woman's looks are her first asset anywhere in the world.
^ I couldn't agree more.
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quote:Originally posted by shahkerdah: But is it still important in a eyes of a male to be a virgin just as its important for a woman . how does the male muslim percive himself into days society .. Could we say the main VIRGINS domineering males of the world would be muslims .
Muslim men do not dominate the male virgin population. Muslim men secretly sleep with other men or animals. The muslim world has a huge homosexual problem that is not being discussed.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by shahkerdah: But is it still important in a eyes of a male to be a virgin just as its important for a woman . how does the male muslim percive himself into days society .. Could we say the main VIRGINS domineering males of the world would be muslims .
Muslim men do not dominate the male virgin population. Muslim men secretly sleep with other men or animals. The muslim world has a huge homosexual problem that is not being discussed.
how come its always ISLAMIC BASHING ON HERE.... so sick ??? Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by shahkerdah: But is it still important in a eyes of a male to be a virgin just as its important for a woman . how does the male muslim percive himself into days society .. Could we say the main VIRGINS domineering males of the world would be muslims .
Muslim men do not dominate the male virgin population. Muslim men secretly sleep with other men or animals. The muslim world has a huge homosexual problem that is not being discussed.
Betty boo, i have to agree with you, I remember on the news some years ago, an Arabic man whas caught by an farmer who heard his sheeps screaming the guy then fled away
Posts: 77 | From: AMSTERDAM | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by homing pigeon: The important thing here is the whole incident shows how parents are begining to view such things differently now. Not so long ago they would just hide in shame, even though she had an orfy marriage.
Hind's case was EXTREMELY unusual. Her father is a communist so doesn't have religious hang-ups. He was vilified in talk shows for not controlling his daughter. It certainly isn't a progressive trend in Egyptian society. Most do hide in shame.
The importance of virginity is, as Dalia said, that men want to control and possess women. In this part of the world, a woman's worth is in her body - her physical attractiveness, her virginity, her fertility. If she has none of those, she is handicapped in her search for a marriage partner and a 'fulfilled' life. Marrying a woman for her mind, her personality etc if she has none of the above, is still very unusual.
Citizen, you're right, Hind's case & her parents' reaction is extremely unusual here. No parent here would be as tolerant & understanding.
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by shahkerdah: But is it still important in a eyes of a male to be a virgin just as its important for a woman . how does the male muslim percive himself into days society .. Could we say the main VIRGINS domineering males of the world would be muslims .
Muslim men do not dominate the male virgin population. Muslim men secretly sleep with other men or animals. The muslim world has a huge homosexual problem that is not being discussed.
Betty boo, i have to agree with you, I remember on the news some years ago, an Arabic man whas caught by an farmer who heard his sheeps screaming the guy then fled away
This is a very stupid generalization. Men who sleep with animals are sick, it doesnt make them muslim or christian, they are simply sick. There are also countless sick online pornograhy between humans & animals produced by westerners. but that doesnt make all westernes zoophiles
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by PEPI_KHEM:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by shahkerdah: But is it still important in a eyes of a male to be a virgin just as its important for a woman . how does the male muslim percive himself into days society .. Could we say the main VIRGINS domineering males of the world would be muslims .
Muslim men do not dominate the male virgin population. Muslim men secretly sleep with other men or animals. The muslim world has a huge homosexual problem that is not being discussed.
Betty boo, i have to agree with you, I remember on the news some years ago, an Arabic man whas caught by an farmer who heard his sheeps screaming the guy then fled away
This is a very stupid generalization. Men who sleep with animals are sick, it doesnt make them muslim or christian, they are simply sick. There are also countless sick online pornograhy between humans & animals produced by westerners. but that doesnt make all westernes zoophiles
Strangely enough alot of those internet films are made in South America. Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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You need to find a muslim marriage broker. It's about $100 for a 24 hour marriage.$300 of a one or two month marriage... We call it prostitution, infidelity and premarital sex in the west. They make up a little contract saying that in exchange for a few buck, the guy gets sex and has no further responsiblity to her or any children. Of course to use this Allah sanctioned form of prostition you will have to convert to Islam (or at least pretend to). Misyar opens happiness door to Saudis http://www.middle-east-online.com/English/sau... Misyar Marriage — a Marvel or Misery? http://www.arabnews.com/?page=9§ion=0... The Mut'ah Pimps http://www.islamicthinkers.com/index/index.ph...Posts: 173 | From: Sun | Registered: Feb 2007
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AAAAND there was a furore in Muslim countries recently regarding the Saudi sheikh(s) who sanctioned these marriages. Heavy criticism was directed towards them by mainstream muslim clerics who supported their argument from quran and sunna in FINE detail.
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by PEPI_KHEM:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by shahkerdah: But is it still important in a eyes of a male to be a virgin just as its important for a woman . how does the male muslim percive himself into days society .. Could we say the main VIRGINS domineering males of the world would be muslims .
Muslim men do not dominate the male virgin population. Muslim men secretly sleep with other men or animals. The muslim world has a huge homosexual problem that is not being discussed.
Betty boo, i have to agree with you, I remember on the news some years ago, an Arabic man whas caught by an farmer who heard his sheeps screaming the guy then fled away
This is a very stupid generalization. Men who sleep with animals are sick, it doesnt make them muslim or christian, they are simply sick. There are also countless sick online pornograhy between humans & animals produced by westerners. but that doesnt make all westernes zoophiles
You are right lady
Posts: 77 | From: AMSTERDAM | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by shahkerdah: But is it still important in a eyes of a male to be a virgin just as its important for a woman . how does the male muslim percive himself into days society .. Could we say the main VIRGINS domineering males of the world would be muslims .
Muslim men do not dominate the male virgin population. Muslim men secretly sleep with other men or animals. The muslim world has a huge homosexual problem that is not being discussed.
how come its always ISLAMIC BASHING ON HERE.... so sick ???
This is not muslim bashing these are hard core facts that the muslim world refuse to speak about. There is a serious homosexual problem in places like Greek, Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Iraq, Afghaninstan that is not being talked about and these same countries are likely to have men sleeping with animals as well because the Islam faith is so strict and the countries culture is even more strict when it comes to sex. I know countless stories of people who were in military and people from other government offices that witness the amount of homosexuality that goes on in those countries. People keep blaming the West but if you know history those regions always had a homosexual problem.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Ummm...homosexuality is a problem all over the world.
And Pepi Khem...virginity is so important in Islam because God told us to guard our chastity. And we as Muslims try our very best to follow what God has instructed of us.
We might question why? why? But our knowledge is nothing compared to God's and if you look at places where virgins are rare, look at the societal problems they're having.
12 year olds are having babies, single parents are prominent, fatherless children, women are having problems getting married (There was even a show about this on Dr. Phil), extreme spread of HIV and other Sexually Transmitted Diseases.
All these things are avoided when women AND men hold on to their virginity. But of course...there's also mental and spiritual benefits as well that we might not necessarily see.
The bottom line is...we trust that God knows us better than any human being on this planet because He is our Creator.
Posts: 48 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2007
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^I agree with your post and I too believe holding on your Virginity until marriage and this applies to the men too. I'm speaking about the alarming rate of men sleeping with other men and animals in the Muslim world that Muslims keep quiet about. If you're faith teaches you not to have sex outside of marriage that means NO SEX at all whether it is with another man or beast. This is something that highly religious Islamics ignore, but you don't find catholics or other christian sects ignoring the homosexual problem.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by iloveEgypt: if you look at places where virgins are rare, look at the societal problems they're having.
12 year olds are having babies, single parents are prominent, fatherless children, women are having problems getting married (There was even a show about this on Dr. Phil), extreme spread of HIV and other Sexually Transmitted Diseases.
All these things are avoided when women AND men hold on to their virginity.
I wonder why people often claim certain problems only or predominantly appear in "Western" countries, while they exist to the same amount in other countries as well. The claim that AIDS is spreading faster in the West, for example, is one of them, but it's not true. HIV is spreading rapidly in countries where virginity is still an ideal and where women are often closely monitored, so instead of just promoting virginity for everyone, we should also take a look at other factors that help the spread of HIV ...
YOUNG WOMEN FACE HIGHEST RISK.
In the 1980s, HIV/AIDS disproportionately affected men. Now, the face of the epidemic is increasingly that of a young woman. Women between 15 and 24 are 1.6 times more likely than young men to be HIV-positive. In sub-Saharan Africa, young women living with HIV outnumber HIV-positive young men 3.6 to 1. About 70 per cent of all young people living with HIV are women in the Caribbean, the Middle East and in North Africa.
The deadly link between women's rights abuses and the spread of HIV/AIDS is slowly gaining recognition, but not before millions of women lost their lives to the disease. Evidence indicates that women especially at risk are those in a heterosexual marriage or long-term union in a society where men commonly engage in sex outside the union and women confront abuse if they demand condom use. Every day, in every corner of the world, women and girls are beaten in their homes, trafficked into forced prostitution, raped by soldiers and rebels in armed conflicts, sexually abused by their "caretakers," deprived equal rights to property and other economic assets, assaulted for not conforming to gender norms, and often left with no option but to trade sex for survival. Some are "inherited" by male in-laws when they become widows, often becoming wives in polygamous families. These acts of discrimination and violence are conduits for HIV infection. Women living with AIDS confront not only stigma, but also the deprivations caused by violations of their rights. Relative to the scale and severity of these abuses, laws, policies, and programs to combat HIV/AIDS by protecting the rights of women and girls are negligible.
The relationship between abuses of women's rights and their vulnerability to AIDS is acutely clear in Africa, where 58 percent of those infected with HIV are women. Infection rates among adolescent girls and young women in much of Africa are strikingly higher than those of their male counterparts, exposing the disturbing reality that young women face appalling levels abuse and discrimination.
In Uganda, domestic violence prevents women from freely accessing HIV/AIDS information, from negotiating condom use, and from resisting unprotected sex with an HIV-positive partner, yet the government has failed to take any meaningful steps to prevent and punish such abuse.
In Kenya, simply because of their gender, many women AIDS victims sink into poverty and will die even sooner because customs condone evicting women from their homes and taking their property upon their husband's death.
In Zambia, orphan girls are often sexually abused at the hands of their guardians, including family members and teachers. In South Africa, the government is lagging in its commitment to provide post-exposure prophylaxis to rape survivors, and girls are deterred from attending school because of high rates of sexual violence and harassment. The scale of these abuses, already unimaginable, is sure to grow as AIDS shatters the lives of women and girls on this continent in the years to come.
Entrenched gender inequality also compounds the discrimination suffered by people living with HIV/AIDS in other regions. In Latin America and the Caribbean-the region with the second highest HIV prevalence rate after sub-Saharan Africa-women increasingly constitute the majority if those newly infected. Even so, the government in the Dominican Republic, for example, has failed to take women's rights violations seriously in HIV/AIDS prevention plans. Women are illegally subjected to HIV testing without informed consent, and those who test positive are routinely fired and denied public healthcare. In addition, public health professionals routinely reveal HIV test results to women's families without the tested individuals knowledge or consent, exposing them to violence and abuse.
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It was not so long ago in Britain that such a momentous occasion as losing your virginity out of wedlock made it impossible for you to go back home to your family
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