posted
I see people on this forum trying to explain that all God's prophets were sent with the same religion and other people feeling angry with this statement or at least incredulous. I believe that the problem is that the two sides are not able to explain to each other their basic concepts. I noticed this during other discussions as well and promised to explain the concept of faith in Islam to clarify this.
You probably all heard that Islam means submission/surrender to God. I wonder if this definition is clear enough. The issue is that the word islam is NOT a name of anything...not a proper pronoun. It's just a noun in the Arabic language that means surrender to God....Now what does THAT, in turn mean. I have to go off track a bit to explain so please bear with me.
My mother and my husband are very close. She loves him and hates him by turns like she does any of her own children but what she does in a never changing way is that she trusts him. He has earned her trust, in fact, along time ago even before we were married. So one day a few weeks before the date of the marriage she gets a call from a lady who claims that he's been having an affair with someone. So She replies saying, "OK,thank you." The lady on the other end of the line was perplexed and said, "I'm calling to tell u about it." so my mum said,"no problem, thank you, that's not necessary". She hangs up and never tells anybody about this incident and not even me , not even him. We find out jokingly about it several years later.
What is this called? trust, maybe? but surely faith, absolute total unquestioned faith. That's not very surprising. We, girls, expect this from our husbands, too, don't we? If someone comes to your husband with a photograph of you swooning in the arms of a stranger, you still expect him to know without questioning that there must be a good explanation for this and not to worry about it at all. But how many people actually live up to this level of expectation? Only those who have this unlimited faith in their spouses.
Now, I move to another form of faith that is approximately similar in nature to that which I mentioned above.
You all know the story of Abraham. He couldnt believe in idols that his people worshipped. It didnt make any sense to him. He thought and thought about it and came to the conclusiont hat this world has to have a God but who was HE, where was He, what did He look like? Abraham didnt have the answer to any of those questions. He saw the moon, thought that might be God. Then when he thought about the moon coming and going he felt that the sun may be a better candidate because it was bigger but then he realized that the sun comes and goes as well. In the end , he realized that although he cant identify who the God of this world is but he is sure that God does exist. His human mind could not grasp who or where He was but Abraham cam to the conclusion that it doesnt matter. He didnt have to know where God was or what He looked like to worship Him but worship the one tru God, he will, wherever God is and whoever God is, Abraham decided to worship him without making any demand to know Him. Now, THAT'S faith!!! It takes a supreme level of faith to come to a believe as strongly as this in God with absolutely no demands....and so God says in the quran that Abraham's faith was equivalent to a whole nation's. When Abraham came to this conclusion that he will worship God regardless, he said I give myself unto God completely - an absolute state of submission that amkes no demands- THIS IS THE MEANING OF ISLAM; it's a noun.
The quran says that this form of worship (giving yourself/surrendering totally unto God aka islam) is the one religion that all prophets have come to earth with. The details of their separate messages differ slightly due to the nature of the period and the people they were sent to butit is stressed in thr quran that the basic concept of faith is the same across the board; giving yourself unto God totally and absolutely.
I hope I managed to make the idea more accessible.
Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
So everyone is Muslim and no one is going t hell? That's no good
What about fasting, praying, paying zakah. Why would I follow a religion at all. All I have to do is surrender the one God and I'm done.
Posts: 465 | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by homing pigeon: Fasting, prayer...etc are the next in line, Auto. I'm not trying to abolish them. I'm explaining first what is faith as a separate entity.
I realize that, but you hit on something that interests me. I have difficulty believing that someone who genuinely tries to reach the "truth" and finds God in a religion other than Islam or find him in no religion at all will still end up in Hell. He/she believes in God but in a different way than Muslims do.
Posts: 465 | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
What I'm saying here explains how the Quran says that every prophet that God sent came with the one faith, Islam: surrender to the one true God. Details of practice have varied . There ia always some demand on the believer to perform duties to prove their faith, their surrender and their sincere wish to please God.This is something else, though. The first step is FAITH/belief.
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Âutomatic For The People:
quote:Originally posted by homing pigeon: Fasting, prayer...etc are the next in line, Auto. I'm not trying to abolish them. I'm explaining first what is faith as a separate entity.
I realize that, but you hit on something that interests me. I have difficulty believing that someone who genuinely tries to reach the "truth" and finds God in a religion other than Islam or find him in no religion at all will still end up in Hell. He/she believes in God but in a different way than Muslims do.
That is the point: There is no religion other than Islam. That's what the quran says and this is the explanation. If you believe in this God, it is in this way, islam the noun.
Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by homing pigeon: What I'm saying here explains how the Quran says that every prophet that God sent came with the one faith, Islam: surrender to the one true God. Details of practice have varied . There ia always some demand on the believer to perform duties to prove their faith, their surrender and their sincere wish to please God.This is something else, though. The first step is FAITH/belief.
Yes I understand and my point is, if someone takes that first step and believes in God, is he Muslims?
If he believed in God and believed in his message delivered by Ibrahim to an extent that he refused to believe anything else, is he a Muslim. Would God deny heaven to someone who believed in him so much. Does Quran say anything with this regard?
Posts: 465 | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
I am in no position to answer this question, Auto. I think this is between God and his believers but my gut feeling is that the person would be considered muslim in terms of faith and errant in terms of practice (ya3ni muslim 3assy rather than kafir). I'd say this may be the idea behind the verse
وَإِنَّ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ لَمَنْ يُؤْمِنُ بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْهِمْ خَاشِعِينَ لِلَّهِ لاَ يَشْتَرُونَ بِآيَاتِ اللَّهِ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلاً أُوْلَئِكَ لَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ سَرِيعُ الْحِسَابِ (آل عمران: 199. And surely there are (some) of the Population of the Book (Or: Family of the Book, i.e., the Jews and Christians) who indeed believe in Allah, and what has been sent down to you, and what has been sent down to them, being submissive to Allah; they do not trade the signs of Allah for a little price. Those have their reward in the Providence of their Lord; surely Allah is swift at the reckoning.
2:62 Those who believed and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
And Allah A3lam. This is just my understanding.
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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2:62 Those who believed and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
And Allah A3lam. This is just my understanding.
"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good)" (Sura 3:85).
It is common teaching in Islam that this verse clarifies the meaning of 2:62 by emphasizing that only Jews, Christians and Sabeans who accept Islam will enter Paradise. Ibn Kathir also quotes 3:85 in his discussion of 2:62, and adds: "Allah does not accept any deed or work from anyone, unless it conforms to the Law of Muhammad -- that is, after Allah sent Muhammad. Before that, every person who followed the guidance of his own Prophet was on the correct path, following the correct guidance and was saved."
The renowned Qur'anic commentator Ibn Kathir (1301-1372) says that the two paths (those with whom Allah is angry and those who have gone astray) "are the paths of the Christians and Jews, a fact that the believer should beware of so that he avoids them. The path of the believers is knowledge of the truth and abiding by it. In comparison, the Jews abandoned practicing the religion, while the Christians lost the true knowledge. This is why 'anger' descended upon the Jews, while being described as 'led astray' is more appropriate of the Christians."
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise; And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them...Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
No, my dear...not EVERY Jew and Christian. There is a condition there. See how superficial understanding intereferes with judgement?
The condition is: "believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness"
define righteousness according to the quran please. Since u know it better than any of us.
And while u're at it, ponder this:
"who indeed believe in Allah, and what has been sent down to you, and what has been sent down to them, being submissive to Allah; they do not trade the signs of Allah for a little price."
Or do you not know what pondering is? You onyl know copy and paste?
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good)" (Sura 3:85).
If you had understood the original post in this thread, you wouldnt be asking this question.
Didnt I say the only religion there is is islam without capital letter, the noun.?
That's some more homework for you, now re-read.
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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